Instead of penetrating ,hold up the line and let the LBs do the rest.

Can’t argue with much of this, but don’t forget game situations and their influence. When a team trails by more than one score in the second half, they’re going to run less often.
The Peyton Manning Colts were crap against the run, but usually had the lead, so their successful offense was their best run defense.
I remember years ago watching MNF with my dad. The announcer said something like “the Cowboys are 16 and 2 when Dorsett carries 20 times or more”, so I remarked, (brilliantly) “They should just start the game with 20 carries in a row by Dorsett”. My dad was unimpressed.
Wasn’t there an article here on CHTV that said, in the Detroit game, half of the Lions’ rushes were for 2 yards or less, and the other half were for 5 yards or more? (I think it was something similar to that.)
I’m pissed that GB has sucked vs the run, but HOW do they fix it? Smarter guys than me are working on that. So we shall see.
As to rushing offense, I offer this: when 33 is carrying, GB gets more yards than when 28 does. Even if the blocking stays the same.

What most of this tells me is what we already knew to begin with. Games are won and lost in the trenches. In the Lions game they lost badly in the trenches. In the Bears game they won easily in the trenches.

On offense without Bakhtiari, Jenkins, a hurt Runyan and a hurt Tom, they really struggled against the Lions. Looks like Bakthiari will likely be done for the year. Jenkins hopefully will be back after the bye. Walker has played well overall at LT until the Lions game. He looked like a rookie. Newman is still the weak link. Its time to replace him with Rhyan. If he is worse then put Newman back in. When Jenkins comes back, do they keep him at LG or do they move him to LT? I think that will come down to who is better Walker at LT or Rhyan/Newman at LG.

On defense, some of the biggest issues are schematically. They keep playing 2 DL no matter what the offense does personnel wise. As a coordinator you need to adjust what you are doing to what others are doing to you. And then when the ball was on the 3, the way they were lined up was bad. Allowing a big hole for an easy walk in TD. There are a lot of basic issues that they could do better schematically and use of personnel. One example is on a goal line TD, Hollins was one of the edge players. Sorry but why would they not have Smith, Van Ness and/or Gary out there? Also, can we get Clark over the C more? He is at his best right over the C. Maybe start moving Clark around more. Its going to be harder to double team him, if they don't know where he is located.

LaFleur sounds lost. If the coaching and personnel don’t improve who, where and how are they going to come up with a successful scheme? What is “the philosophy of what we’re trying to get done”? No answers. He’s got nothing. Well at least we don’t have to deal with the Diva, right.?

"The problems are certainly nothing new. Running and stopping the run have often been issues during the span of the LaFleur coaching regime, now in its fifth year."

It's been an issue for about 13 years running (no pun intended), going back to the SB-winning team. There's been a year here or there where they've been competent, but it's nothing sustained.

The other issue going back to Eddie Lacy's rookie year is an unwillingness to stick with offensive playmakers in the run game. It's pointed out above: most offensive playcallers can't help but want to throw the ball. LaF and MM both found themselves in that category...we can save the "common denominator is 12" arguments--they've been beaten to death. Right now, though, this is a team that has a beat up OL and even the starters didn't necessarily have the blocking chops to be a strong run unit, which compounds things even further.

I wouldn't be surprised if--given the injuries and given how the OL got beat up by the Lions--the Packers take the mini-bye and rework their OL alignment. Some have called for Walker or Nijman to play G--that's ridiculous. Neither have any game snaps there, and only minimal practice or camp time there. Why Nijman hasn't been able to get on the field is a question I'd like to see answered: he's not an elite OT, but he's competent and good in the run game, and the movement of Walker ahead of him on the depth chart reminds me of the coaches' conviction in starting Newman and Hanson on the right side last year.

The IOL in general needs a shot in the arm. My initial thought would be to move JRJ back to the left side--where he started and played well when Jenkins blew his ACL--and slide Tom into the RG spot. Yes, LH, he's got a gimpy leg, but if he can practice and play, he can move to a position he's played for the Packers in the past. I'd put Nijman back in the lineup...at this stage he and Walker are at the top of the depth chart. They'd have to figure out who goes on the right and who on the left. Things tidied up for the Packers a little in protection in the second half of the Lions game, but they had TEs chipping/helping on the shoulders on both sides with regularity.

Given what we saw on Thursday, every DC the Packers play from here on will want to challenge the Packers' OL until the Packers show it doesn't work. The Raiders don't present a daunting opponent (especially if Aidan O'Connell is still under C)...and then there's the bye and three more weaklings on the other side of it. This is an opportunity to "get well" after they "got bushwhacked" by the Lions.

"We are going to review everything!" OK, WELL SAID!

"way too late to pull off any major personnel changes." SAYS WHO!

With regard to that statement, their are two ways you can go. Next coach up would be the Assistant Defensive Coordinator. Or, next coach up could be the Special Teams Coach/Assistant Head Coach.

A change "now" would allow a new step-in coach "from within" to take charge and finish out the year without having to bring in "his guys" as new assistants.

The off-season would allow for review. Retain the coach that stepped in (previous Special Teams coach) and if need be, look for a new Special Teams Coach (because Rich is now DC)...oops, what a give-a-way.

Rich is not a phone call away...just a tap on the shoulder distance away.

Question is...Would all the defensive guys "play for him?" Answer...HELL YES!! ;)

We have a DT sitting on the PS. We haven’t elevated him. He looked to be a help in the preseason versus the run, but we went into Atlanta and Detroit and played light and still over played Clark and Slaton.

We have been very bad at holding the edge too. Not only have we been porous inside particularly without one of Clark and Slaton, but outside.

Add those two facts up and one has a portrait of poorly thought out Planning and then repeated failing to correct execution.

On O, I don’t know what we’ve done to Nijman or him to Stenovich, but he’s been consistently one of the best Ts in the run game and adequate versus the pass, particularly on the left. Yet we can’t use him.

We all knew going into this season that Runyon was just ok in the run game and that Myers was probably worse. Yet Myers was never challenged. Instead we took our best young guy, drafted to be s center and replaced the one guy compared to whom he’s probably a down grade in the run game.

Walker was a first day prospect for many before his final year. then he had a last year where things seemed to fall apart technically and he got hurt. It’s clear that whatever the reason, that had corrected by the time he played (at RT) I. The last preseason game last year. However, he isn’t the technical freak that Bakh was and Tom is. He needs to increase his power, I think particularly upper body. He was never going to be an upgrade in the run game at this point.

It’s sobering to rewatch games and see the C going backwards or missing a block. Myers sometimes seems averse to contact in the second phase. However, as with the sack last week, the most frequent howler is an opponent just splitting the gap between him and either G.

PFF and Herman ( a Myers apologist) tend to blame the Gs. They tended to blame Jenkins too before he got hurt. Newman is certainly not blame free. Runyon isn’t perfect, but my eyes consistently see the problem being the absence of good blocking from the C both undermining them and also contributing to their limitations.

Rhyan looked better than Newman and Runyon in the run game in the preseason. Maybe that’s deceptive. However, Runyon was playing 95% of last week on a bad ankle that put him in a boot. It’s not obvious that a healthy Rhyan wouldn’t have held up at least as well as a hobbled Runyon.
Then again, if Myers is being pushed back into the run
lane and we aren’t even trying to run (12 carries) and are way behind, perhaps that would not have helped.

So, in the trenches on both sides of the ball we’ve been fighting the already known and repeating the same structural mistakes while stacking the odds against us. That’s continuity of acknowledged failings on D and in personnel handling on O.

When we repeatedly do the same things with similar results, while the players play a part, it’s the product of coaching. That’s an inescapable conclusion. Sometimes the obvious isn’t an illusion. The Packers lack the ability to self diagnose or the leadership and vision to take steps to change direction on both sides of the ball.

We are essentially rerunning the same flaws as before. Injuries may exacerbate and distract but they aren’t the root. These problems precede them. In addition on O, we’ve seen no improvement in technique or play from any OL in 3 years. Tom came in and we haven’t ruined him. Runyon, Myers, Newman have got less good with time.

On both sides we fight against trying available alternatives that could help generally or situationally, such as Ford, Rhyan or Tom to C and Nijman or just more 3 true DL sets . We are probably spared Hanson only due to his injury.

It’s just time to look above the minutiae and see the larger picture, the coaching is broken, ineffective, over cautious and irrational. We keep citing details as baffling. They aren’t, they are what comes from a coaching staff over matched both tactically and in terms of developmental ability.

We have a Head Coach who can’t pick or develop his coaches or face up to their failure. It’s not merely Barry: Butkus, Montgomery and Stenovich are all just no good or promoted to a level where what they are capable at is no longer relevant. Unfortunately they are little mirrors of LaFleur. Until he is gone, this is just going to repeat in a loop of empty words and a lack of ability to change it.

I know that upsets people. It’s not what any of us hoped for. We hoped that a the departure of Rodgers would’ve proved to free up coaches to do better. Well it hadn’t. In fact it’s made almost no difference. I know pundits want to dance around it, saying it without expressly staring the conclusion to attract team ire, but it’s time. This team is a mess on the field and it’s not primarily the players.

I want to see more violence. Violent tackling, aggressive play. Especially in the trenches. The d & o line do NOT play smash mouth, ass kicking football.
Players need to get into game. Wrong, missed assignments won't cut it. 1st rounder or not. Fundamental tackling and blocking desperately needs to coached & insisted. 1st rounder or not.
Hell, even the teams penalties are passive, indicating lack of focus & detail.

Run the ball, stop the run. It's one of the oldest mantras or cliches in football at any level. This is a sad commentary that MLF is in his 5th year as an NFL HC and he is just realizing this 4 games into his 5th season. As for Joe Barry, who has been in the league for 20+ years, this gives us some sense as to why he has failed as a DC throughout his career. This is just ridiculous and inexcusable to me that MLF is making these comments at this point about stopping the opponents run game.

Yes it is a pass happy league and yes the Packers have a strong pass rush and good DBs when they are healthy. They usually are good at defending against the pass. However, unless the Packers can stop the run it is not going to matter how well they can stop the pass because teams are going to run the ball against the Packers defense until they prove that they can stop the run.

The Packers need to stop their opponents ground game and force their opponent to play into the defense's strength which is defending the pass. 5 yards per play maybe less than 7 yards per play but any HC with a brain is going to take the 5 yards per play when they know they can get it versus risking passing for 7 yards per play when passing the ball comes with more risks than holding the ball off. When at team passes the ball they risk having the pass batted down by the DL, they risk a tipped ball being picked off by the defense, they risk a drop by the receiver, they risk a pass break up, they risk a straight up pick by the defense, they risk a poorly thrown ball either under or over thrown, they risk a sack of their QB and the lost yardage that comes with sack and they risk a holding penalty trying to protect their QB from the pass rush. All negative outcomes for a pass play.

When a team runs the ball they risk the handoff exchange and they risk a fumble. The large majority of NFL run plays do not usually end with either of those results. The run game is seen as the approach for protecting the ball when a team has a lead and as an approach for protecting their QB from unnecessary hits.
Not to mention that running the ball uses more time on the clock and keeps the other team's offense off the field for a longer period of time.

The flaw in the Packers defensive approach for years has been to stop the pass first and prevent the big play. There is nothing wrong with that approach except that if the defense cannot stop the run game they die by a thousand cuts 5 yards or plus at a time and their defense never gets off the field to get some rest.

When the opposing offense sees only 2 DLs and DBs playing 7+ yards off the LOS they are going to run the ball. Why wouldn't they? It obvious that they are going to pick up 3-5 yards before a defender can even get into position to make a tackle. If that tackle is broken or missed, as is often the case with the Packers, the run play is going to be good for 5 yards or more. Focusing on the pass at the expense of stopping the run is just a poor approach for trying to stop a professional NFL offense. Most importantly it just doesn't work and it hasn't worked for years for the Packers defense. Time to stop the madness.

Thanks, Since '61

Lafleur has said they can improve with scheme changes. Yes, you bet.

The play that Lafleur noted was a second and goal at the three yard line. The Packers were in a light front. What was not noticed was the Packers went with light front on first and goal at the eight yard line. After first down the Lions went hurry up and the Packers were mismatched. What went wrong was Barry going light inside the 10 yard line.

That's not scheme. It is bad coaching. Bad play calling.

And Lafleur was bad too. The Lions went single safety deep, daring the Packers to throw deep. But the Packers didn't have the protection to throw deep. And the announcers even noticed that the Packers needed to roll out Love to give him more time.

That is a knock against Lafleur that he is slow to adjust quickly in games. Heis aggressive on fourth down, but slow to adjust.

And the Lions were much more creative in their play calling.

Sure, the players played poorly. But the coaching stunk more

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Can't believe MLF says, "we can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results".

We've been saying that on CHTV for years!

If you're going to play mamby pamby soft shoulder football the results won't get better. The bullies just keep on picking on the weak kids on the block.

As frustrated as we are with the flaws and the coaching approach of our team, just imagine if we were Bears fans. Since the Packers didn't play yesterday I watched what I thought was going to be the first win of the season for the "Bad News Bears" and they managed to lose yet another game that seemed essentially impossible to lose.

"Dobber" and many other guys made comments here that essentially cover everything I wanted to say. This weekend I watched two full days of football and I will say, I am glad we drafted Jordan Love; he looks like he has the tools and mental makeup to be a successful NFL quarterback. I saw a lot of marginal quarterback play from a goodly number of teams.

How about replacing Jerry Montgomery? He is the DL coordinator, and the running back coordinator for the offense. If both stink, it goes back to him, at least to some degree. But the other problem is the offensive coordinator. That would be Adam Stenavich, who was a great offensive line coordinator. But as OC?

Adam Stenavich
Stenavich is the offensive coordinator for the Green Bay Packers since the 2022 season, a total of two years. Stenavich's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 10-11-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in Green Bay Packers history.

It seems that LaFleur has a problem with his position coaching staff. This is the same problem that Mike
McCarthy faced. MM made some tough choices. MLF has chosen the "nice guy" approach. And the chickens are
coming home to roost.

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/01/20/matt-lafleur-picking-friends...

Until the head coach gets tougher, and makes some tough decisions, this team will continue to be seen as "soft".

Coming into the year, I was not worried about the offense. I knew we'd have bumps and bruises from being a young team, but Love's poise, confidence and arm ability that he showed last year in Philly reminded me so much of a young Aaron Rodgers in Dallas in 07 and a young Brett Favre vs. Cincy in 1992, that I thought we'd have at least a competent offense by the end of the year, with the sky being the limit in 2024.

I am surprised at the inability to run the football. Dillon at this point can be labeled a bust, which makes me very sad. And Jones/Bakh/Jenkins injuries makes what was a strength into a weakness.

That said, I was VERY concerned with the defense. Either the players that personnel has drafted since 2019 suck, or the coaching sucks. Or maybe both. And there really isn't a way to fix it. MLF should have never hired Joe Barry, and he should have never kept the defensive staff under Pettine. That was a massive MLF error, and the one, to me at least, that warms his seat. (not the offense as CW points out every chance he gets).

There isn't a way to fix this mess other than "scheme better and play better." More easily said than done. And if we don't make the playoffs this year, as we SHOULD in a weak division in a weak conference, THAT will be why.

The entire defensive coaching staff must be fired at the conclusion of this year unless there is MASSIVE improvement, and I don't see any reason that will happen. And MLF needs to be on the hot seat in 2024 because of it.

I think they need to make changes now why throw away the whole year there won't be no massive improvements

Right now I’m just waiting for LaF to say “pad level” to complete my bingo card.

Mother Teresa sends Coach LaF a message:

"Be the change you want to see in this team"...

*I really like Coach LaFleur as a person. As a HC, I think he may not be the best fit for the Packers moving forward. I would love to see a defensive-minded HC if one is out there while having an Asst keep working with #10 and his continued growth. I feel now is the time to make changes if possible. This is a growth season anyways with dead money still needing to be accounted for this year and some next year as well. I know talented coaches don't grow on trees, but let's start exploring.

*I really enjoyed reading everyone's opinions on this matter. Thanks for keeping and carrying the G.

Pantz

It seems like MLF is acknowledging or noticing that there might be a systemic run defense issue for the first time.

The thing about Lions game was the heavy pass ratio to start off. I thought it was bad offensive game plan. I was calling out the play call balance in watch party, 7 passes to 2 runs at one point, and forgot to count the sacks. They only started to move the ball once they started to run and get it 3rd and short or manageable. Now I can't say if the success was the Lions letting up after the first half butt kicking.

This year was always going to be a rollercoaster. Love has to learn, and in my opinion, MLF has to learn too as I feel AR sheltered him from the mental burden of good game planning/calling. You don't jettison players and coaches at first sign of adversity citing that they should have known and done something perfect. MLF kept Barry around for "reasons". MLF is the head coach, not just the OC. It's clear that the offseason changes that he might have tried have not been as successful as MLF or we had hoped.

So MLF what are you going to do about it from here? MLF needs to show improvement as much as Love has to learn.

Stopping the run requires more than 2 DL on the field. While I like the 2 rookie DL, they are built to pass rush. Jonathan Ford is sitting on the PS.. just sayin.. I'd love to see them play some more 4 or even 5 DL on obvious rushing situations and press with the corners to take away the quick hitters...
OL is in shambles right now.. simply put best 5 available right now are walker, Tom, Myers, Runyan and Nieman left to right. Kick Tom out to LT when Jenkins is back. There are no other reinforcements coming so they gotta get it done. Maybe try Dillon at fb.

“It doesn’t take a genius to see the pattern.”
Someone advise the coaching staff.
Go Packers!!!

"Which is ironic considering it was his decision to retain Joe Barry as his defensive coordinator despite two seasons that failed to meet expectations."

If MM wouldn't let MLF hire who he wanted as Special Teams Coach because of salary why would he hire who MLF wanted as Defensive Coach?????

MM IS IN CHARGE OF HIRING/FIRING THE ENTIRE COACHING STAFF AND HIS MAIN CONCERN IS HOW CHEAP THEY ARE!!!!

I just think that if your biggest concern is the run game then your missing the pass defense and offense pass game.
I see so many other types of plays KC uses like wide sweeps, quick hits to the edge and short passes to the TE over the middle that seem like a fantasy move to the packers, almost like, we would have to practice those.
This team just has a very basic game plan. Maybe its a lack of speed that prevents a lot of this.
Every year KC seems to find a 4.3 guy in the draft who can make plays. The Packers never find anyone like that.
Also the KC chielfs and most other teams draft guys to play now, not develop for three years down the road.
There is just this laid back scheme and attitude towards game management.