Packers Snaps Counts: Week 8 Versus The Jaguars

A team with a culture of winning prevails over one that does not have a winning culture.

 

 

The Packers elevated Robert Rochell from the practice squad.  It was his third elevation.  The Packers released LS Matt Orzech to make room for DL Jonathan Ford, then released Ford and later signed Ford to the practice squad.  The Packers then re-sign Orzech.  Quay Walker and Corey Ballentine were held out of the game due to injuries, and the other inactives were Brenton Cox, Andre Dillard, Kitan Olapado, and Travis Glover.

 

OFFENSIVE LINE:

Player Snaps % ST
Jenkins 70 100  
Myers 70 100 2/6%
Walker 70 100 6/18%
Tom 70 100 6/18%
Rhyan 48 69 6/18%
Morgan 22 31 6/18%
Telfort     618%
Monk     4/12%

 

The offensive line was adequate with its run blocking.  The Packers gained 170 yards on 39 carries, a 4.36-yard average (4.2-yard per carry without Willis).  That is roughly NFL league average.  It is one of the reasons why the Packers have some issues in the red zone since they become a little one-dimensional.  The Packers can punch it into the end zone for a touchdown by running the ball, but their success rate is at best average.  The Packers were bad in the red zone last year and entered the game 18th in the NFL in success rate, per Pro Football Reference.  The Packers succeeded twice on six tries in the red zone in this game.

The pass blocking was again good.  The Packers allowed 4 quarterback hits and 1 sack.  Love seemed less able to move around in the pocket, much less escape outside the pocket, so it may have seemed worse than it was.  

Dillard did not play again.  It appears if the starting five plus Morgan are healthy, Dillard is inactive.  He has appeared in 4 games and has 19 snaps on special teams.  There have been some reports that teams were interested in trading for Dillard.      

 

RUNNING BACKS:

Player Snaps % ST
Jacobs 45 64  
Brooks 17 24 14/42%
Wilson 12 17  

 

Josh Jacobs is a really good back.  He has good speed and he can break a defender's ankles.  He also runs through trash very well and had good balance.  Jacobs gained 127 yards on 25 carries, a 5.08-yard average, with a long of 38 and 2 touchdowns.  Clearly, the Packers are putting a lot of this offense on his back.  The productivity when he is off the field is much lower. 

As I watch each touch that Emanuel Wilson gets, I understand why the play went no where.  Still, there has to be some reason why over the last few games every time Wilson touches the ball, the Packers lose yardage.  Wilson gained 5 yards on 4 carries with a long of 4.  He also caught 2 passes for negative 1 yards.   Jacobs also caught a pass for negative 2 yards.  Is it the type of plays LaFleur calls for Wilson?  Also, that pass in the flat to the running back which is also often almost a lateral is a staple of many offenses, but it has not been working lately. 

It is also notable that Brooks got more snaps and Wilson.  Brooks gained 16 yards on 4 carries and had the presence of mind to take a knee at the Jacksonville 4 yard line instead of strolling into the end zone, which he well could have done.  That allowed the Packers to run out the clock and kick a very short field goal for the win as time expired.

 

 

TIGHT ENDS:

Player Snaps % ST
Kraft 59 84 9/27%
Sims 25 36 6/18%
Fitzpatrick 6 9 6/18%

 

Kraft caught all 3 of his targets for 78 yards (26.1-yard average) with a long of 67 and an easy touchdown reception.  The long completion came after Love extended the play by escaping outside (and apparently aggravating his various injuries) and again featured a ton of yards after the catch.  Kraft leads the Packers with 5 touchdown receptions.  Sims did not catch his only target.   John Fitzpatrick got his first snaps with the Packers.

 

QUARTERBACKS

Player Snaps % ST
Love 44 63  
Willis 26 37  

 

Love completed 14 of 22 passes (63.63%) for 196 yards (8.91 yards/attempt) with no TDs and 1 interception.  He had a 73.3 passer rating.  Love threw some beautiful passes, including a perfect pass down the right sideline to Doubs for 29 yards.  His diminished mobility made it more difficult for him to operate off-schedule.  Love was injured with 12:07 remaining the third quarter with the Packers leading 13-10.  Willis completed 4 of his 5 passes for 56 yards and a touchdown.  He had no interceptions and was not asked to make any difficult throws.  His passer rating was 152.8.  One would think that the Packers would have used a package of RPO plays while Willis was the starter.  On the other hand, when it mattered, LaFleur was able to reach into his bag of tricks (apparently at the suggestion of Jason Vrable, passing game coordinator), to run a play that got Jayden Reed wide open.  Willis threw a nice pass in stride to the streaking Reed to set up the final points of the game. 

 

WIDE RECEIVERS:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Doubs 59 84  
Watson 52 74  
Reed 41 59 5/15%
Wicks 21 30  
Melton 12 17 17/52%
Heath 1 1 6/18%

 

Doubs caught 3 of 6 for 72 yards.  Reed caught 2 of 3 for 55 with a long of 51.  Watson caught 4 of 6 for 39 yards.  Melton was targeted once but had no receptions.  He did well in coverage on special teams.  Heath had no targets.  The team is certainly spreading the ball around, as many fans desired.  Reed has 41 targets, followed by Wicks and Doubs with 40 each.  Watson has 20 targets.  Doubs entered the game with 18 catches that were good for a first downs, followed by Reed with 14 and Wicks with 11.  I might have said that Doubs is the glue that is holding the wide receiver room together, and to a certain extent, I think that is true.  Love seems to look for Doubs when he is in trouble.  However, the numbers suggest that Watson is the big-play threat while the other three wide receivers provide the volume.

 

INTERIOR DEFENSIVE LINE:

Player Snaps % ST
Clark 35 61  
Brooks 23 40 5/15%
Wyatt 23 40  
Slaton 16 28 12/36%
Wooden 15 26 6/18%

 

Clark had 3 tackles (1 solo).  Wooden had 2 tackles (1 solo) and he deflected a pass.  Brooks had 2 assisted tackles and Wyatt had no tackles but he recovered a fumble.  Slaton had no statistics.  The Jaguars gained 91 yards on 23 carries, a 3.96-yard average.  The Packers defense was throttling the Jaguars for thier first 4 possession, which included three 3 and outs that gained a total of 17 yards and another possession that ended with an interception on the second play.  Then the Packers started to give up some big plays.  The Jaguars scored a touchdown on a 6 play, 70-yard scoring drive that featured completions 33 and 18 yards mixed in with a 14 yard burst up the middle to Green Bay's 2-yard line.  Lawrence ran in on the next play.  With 48 seconds left in the half, the Lawrence completed passes for 23 and 28 yards to notch a field goal to make it 13-10 at the half.  Jacksonville was 1 for 1 in the red zone while the Packers went 1 for 4 in red zone in the first half.  Jacksonville finished 3 for 3 in the red zone while the Packers went 2 for 6. 

There was not much interior push from the linemen.  Both of Jacksonville's starting guards missed some snaps in the game, so they had to give 29 snaps to a backup, Cooper Hodges, a 7th round pick in 2023 who previously had played one snap in the NFL.  I had hoped for a lot more damage while Hodges was the game than I saw.

 

DEFENSIVE ENDS:

Player Snaps % ST
Gary  36 63  
Smith 31 54  
Enagbare 24 42 15/45%
Van Ness 21 37 25/76%
Mosby 2 4 26/79%

 

It was a quiet day from the ends.  Smith, Gary and Van Ness each had 1 quarterback hit.  Van Ness had 3 solo tackles, one of which was a tackle for loss, and Gary had 1 solo tackle.  Enagbare had 2 assisted tackles and Smith had 1.  There were a lot of twists and stunts again because these guys just are not winning their one on ones.  There was some pressure, but it just takes time, given that the ends bull rush a lot.  With the trade deadline looming, there has been the usual chatter about acquiring a player.  A lot of that talk has centered on a corner back such as Greg Newsome, who has had some nice years, though not so much in 2024.  The biggest need is for a pass rusher.  I suppose those are hard to come by. 

 

 

LINEBACKERS:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Er Wilson 57 100 10/30%
McDuffie 38 67 11/33%
Cooper 34 60 7/21%
Hopper     16/48%

Wilson had 9 tackles (5 solo) including a tackle of loss.  Cooper had 8 tackles (4 solo), including a tackle for loss.  Cooper added a QB hit, a pass defensed and a forced fumble that was recovered by Wyatt at the Jacksonville 5 yard line.  He makes big plays.  McDuffie had 8 tackles (4 solo).  Once again opposing tight ends had nice days.  Of course, not all of those yards are the responsibility of the linebackers.  

 

  DEFENSIVE BACKS:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Nixon 57 100 12/36%
McKinney 57 100 12/36%
Alexander 57 98 3/9%
Bullard 49 86 15/45%
Stokes 21 37  
Williams 18 32  
Valentine 12 21 19/58%
Anderson 2 4 21/64%
Rochell     15/45%

 

McKinney had 6 tackles (4 solo) and another nice interception.  Nixon had 4 tackles ( 1 solo).  Nixon cannot get his head turned in man coverage.  Williams had 2 tackles (1 solo) before leaving the game.  Stokes had 1 solo tackle.  Zayne Anderson had a tackle on special teams.  I counted 7 big passing plays allowed, some to running backs, some to tight ends, and some to wide receivers.  Losing both of their starting wide receivers did not slow down the Jaquars.  Lawrence completed 21 of 39 (65.6%) for 308 yards (9.625 yards/attempt) with 2 TDs, 1 INT, and a 104.8 passer rating.    

 

SPECIAL TEAMS:

 

Brandon McManus made all three of his extra points and all three of his field goals, including the game winner as time expired from 38 yards out.  Whelan average 48 yards per punt and helped flip the field.  The opposing punter may have had an even better better.  It was 84 degrees.    

 

Photo courtesy of Corey Perrine, USA Today Network.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Comments (75)

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 28, 2024 at 05:59 am

I do think GB's roster is more talented, but I try to be careful not to overestimate the players. RT Anton Harrison is not very good. Held up well against us. I don't think LT Walker Little is very good. OC Morse and RG Scherf are okay, but that's all. Ezra Cleveland is pretty decent - I was watching him in 2020 when he went 58th and we took Dillon 62nd. Hodges was an unknown 7th rounder from 2023. I was a little disappointed the front 7 couldn't do better against that OL.

I am thinking about Goff with loads of time behind the OL destroying us with passes to LaPorta. Tim Patrick, and St., Brown. At least Jameson Williams is suspended. Tank Bigsly isn't bad, but he isn't jahmyr Gibbs and David Montgomery. they are going to catch some passes as well as run. Without Aidan Hutchinson, Detroit's pass rush is far les formidable.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:02 am

I was also disappointed in the lack of pressure from the D-line and Detroit has a much more formidable offensive line than Jax does. Unless some of the Packer D-linemen start winning their one-on-one battles, this D-line is going to get exposed against Detroit's passing game. Hafley can scheme up some pressure, but more has to come from winning one-on-one battles.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 12:45 pm

I agree. That was really a surprising issue against that OL.

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T7Steve's picture

October 28, 2024 at 06:09 am

70 snaps to 57, not too bad, but I wonder what it was half to half.

"Brooks gained 16 yards on 4 carries and had the presence of mind to take a knee at the Jacksonville 4-yard line instead of strolling into the end zone" TGR, does that count as one of the 6 red zone possessions? If so, that tilts the TD success percentages.

I thought Brooks looked better pass blocking too.

Wonder how bad Alexander is dinged. That didn't look good at the end of the game. Maybe we should flex the buy to before the Lions' game? Be nice to go in there somewhat healthy.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 28, 2024 at 06:24 am

Very true. I suppose one should think that GB's adjusted red zone was 3 of 6. GB was 1 of 4 in the first half (2 FGs, 1 TD, and a Love INT).

Just looking at ESPN's play by play, GB had 40 snaps and Jacksonville had 23 snaps in the first half. GB had the ball 34:09 to Jacksonville's 25:51. 18:53 TOP for GB in the first half to 11:07 for Jacksonville. So, the 2nd half was 15:16 to 14:44 - very close TOP in the second half.

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T7Steve's picture

October 28, 2024 at 06:57 am

Thanks. That's kind of the feel I had for it (besides frustration with injuries and mistakes).

That's why the NFL is the great equalizer. Even with a win you're supposed to get, your team can get decimated.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 12:50 pm

They didn’t get a first down till well into the second quarter. Then they changed things up. That was the primary reason for the dominance in time of possession.

Unfortunately, we really weren’t able to capitalize on those possessions significantly. A large part of that was the visibly hampered Love stripping out a large part of the offense in my view. The D knew that and it restricts not only what we can do but the range of possibilities they need to defend.

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GregC's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:05 am

I was interested to see the snap counts at LB. It's surprising that Eric Wilson has emerged as the main guy if Quay Walker can't go, but he's earned it. Edgerrin Cooper comes in third place, behind Isaiah McDuffie. Cooper seems to be a passing down specialist at this point, with his ability to rush the passer,. His strip sack was the defensive play of the game, and he also made a fantastic pass breakup in the deep middle of the field. Disappointing that Ty'Ron Hopper did not get a single snap on defense. This was a golden opportunity to get him a taste of meaningful action.

Christian Watson was not the big-play threat in this game. He caught 4 passes for 39 yards, and I think they were all for first downs. Just medium-length passes. He is plenty good at that. Doubs, Kraft, and Reed made the big plays.

I read that the Packers only had 3 accepted penalties for 20 yards. A couple of them killed the first drive, and I think there were at least one or two other penalties that were declined. Still, it was a pretty clean game overall. It seems like penalties have generally been declining as the season has continued.

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T7Steve's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:26 am

Bullard seemed to get exposed after Williams was hurt too. I wonder if it's because they're going to just try not to throw anywhere McKinney is, so it stands out more.

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:08 am

After Williams got hurt, Bullard moved back to SS and Nixon moved inside, so the roles changed. You'd like to think this wouldn't be a huge issue, because Bullard's had his snaps at true S and Nixon's used to playing in the slot. Then Alexander got dinged, too. What a mess. I'm concerned with what appears to be either a regression on Valentine's part, a poorer fit in the new defense, or opponents figuring out how to best attack him.

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GregC's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:50 am

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with Valentine. Coming into the season, I figured either Stokes or Valentine needed to be good. Of the two, it looked like Valentine was a pretty sure bet to at least be decent, but the coaches don't trust him. He's had a couple of injuries, and I wonder if that has affected his mobility and/or his confidence.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:13 am

They played a lot of zone and fairly soft. Stokes and Valentine both do less well in zone and less well playing off. If that’s what Hafley wants, we don’t have the horses to do it.

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jannes bjornson's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:16 am

Best to try and acquire a CB by the trade deadline. The need was there in 2023-24 drafts. Maybe P. Smith gets moved?

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stockholder's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:25 am

Gute will take a late pick, first.
Then he'll draft a CB again in the first.(2025)

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jannes bjornson's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:39 am

The picks were there in 2023-24. He went with Van Ness and he shifts Morgan to guard. The next draft will be too late. This guy has had Seven Years to get serious about the Gold.

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stockholder's picture

October 28, 2024 at 03:01 pm

Both had outstanding character.
But the keys to the future were missed.
7 years - yep, most here gave him 3.
I say he'll never win a super-bowl as long as
he is our GM.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:10 am

Bullard played well early in the year as a tandem safety with McKinney, but certainly had a bad day yesterday moving back to safety from slot corner. I expect Williams will miss several weeks with a hamstring pull so Bullard is going to have to re-find his early season play at safety, especially with a potent Detroit passing attack coming to Lambeau next Sunday.

With Williams hurt, the depth at safety is going to have to be Oladapo who hasn't played a defensive snap yet this season (9 special team's snaps). Hopefully he is ready to play.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:16 am

Most Safeties would struggle with Thomas. His route running is a little rough yet, but his burst and short area agility are extremely good for a 6’4” WR. It was a bad matchup that the Jags manufactured inside. Engram, now healthy, is also essentially a big WR and a good one. A tough ask for Bullard. A better match up for them than either Stokes or Valentine and they took it.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:54 am

Another thing Watson does good is blocking. Especially, on Jacobs long TD run he was still blocking his individual down on the 5-10 yard line making sure Jacobs reaches the end zone.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:30 am

Love was injured on the first drive and by the second it was clear that he was struggling to even hand off smoothly and at normal pace. He also couldn’t pivot as normal. A lot of the play book went out the window. Yet LaFleur let him stay in and we watched him tweak the injury repeatedly until Love, back out for the second half, essentially took himself off. Willis immediately sped up the running game visibly.

Not pulling Love, whom LaFleur admitted was immobile, was reprehensible on LaFleur’s part. Not only was Love not able to execute simple movements, he could only loft throws with reduced velocity. More importantly, he was clearly aggravating his injury. That bears not only on this week, but next week and beyond. Perhaps the worst piece of head coaching in years in GB.

It was in any case a bad day for LaFleur. The game plan of going heavy against that team with a weak secondary made no sense—unless it was injury driven, it was a failure to attack their big weakness. Hafley too got out adjusted and went to the soft approach that hurt us against the Eagles, against the Vikings and yesterday. Our CBs don’t thrive doing it and it let them back in the game consistently. He had Nixon outside and getting whipped regularly there far too often.

Meanwhile LaFleur showed almost no trust in Willis till he had no choice. Once again Willis showed he’s capable of more than LaFleur allows him. We were very fortunate not to have our coaching beat us in that game. We will be very fortunate if Live is anything like healthy agsinst Detroit and perhaps coming out of the bye. That’s on LaFleur.

If Love is not fully mobile, he needs to sit and recover. We won’t beat Detroit with him hobbled. We also won’t beat them with Willis just handing off 90% of the time. If Love isn’t mobile, the only chance is to play Willis and take off the training wheels and let him pass aggressively as well as run. It may not work, but we aren’t going to beat Detroit with an O operating with one hand behind its back at QB due to injury or lack of courage on the part of LaFleur.

If Willis is allowed to try and it fails, so be it: at least Love would be getting healthier. Our objective is to make the playoffs. We don’t need to defeat Detroit next week to do that. We do need a healthy Love (and Williams). However, there is no point in rolling over. Go in with Willis and roll the die on an aggressive, expansive use of him. If we lose, we move on and we went down trying not going through the motions.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:23 am

Now, you are throwing Hafley’s D down the road…..is there a DC who could please you? Of course, we don’t want to see the D giving up a lead, but it’s not always against our coordinator. There’s another team that sometimes just makes great plays as well. Should we move on from Hafley now?

Just as you remarked later on your posts, you won’t give Mlf credit for telling Brooks to go down and not score a TD, you condemn Mlf for making wrong choices in a win. Without perfection, a coach can’t do things right with you. Mlf is highly regarded as one of the best HC in the biz, but yet you belittle him without knowledge of how Love really felt. Playing heavy, I assume you mean running the ball vs throwing more actually won the game for them. Does Jacobs, last big run happen if he didn’t wear the D down and beat on them for 25 carries? If we played pass happy would we have won the game? Usually, people play “arm chair QB” in a loss, but you manage to do it in a win as well.

Do you realize there is another NFL team that is also devising plays to beat what we are doing? Jags, especially at home are a much better team than their record, they have lost a lot of very close games and have serious weapons on offense. Based on how you talk, you would think we are 2-6 and not 6-2.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:32 am

Hafley got it wrong against the Vikings. He got out adjusted yesterday. He got very high praise from me last week and rightly, along with a caution that he will continue to get it wrong at times because he’s new to the role and because he does change things to try to get an advantage.

Yesterday that didn’t work. Sorry you can’t deal with the imperfections even when self evident. I prefer to call it like I see it, not how I want to see it.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:55 am

Self evident to a self proclaimed expert……..Maybe my point of view is different than yours and not wrong. Maybe it isn’t right, but I don’t come across like a self proclaimed expert on game planning or execution vs scheme,(which is hard to decipher live and sometimes even tough to know after a rewatch) especially many times right after the game without rewatching to make sure your strong opinions are warranted or can be substantiated.

That’s funny you state that you gave Hafley very high praise last week. In reality, the defense last week gave up a potential game winning FG and fortunately we stopped the last play or they run the clock out and kick the FG for a win. If the offense doesn’t drive down the field for a FG we lose that game. I wonder how your opinion of Hafley would’ve been then. So you praise him one week and condemn him the next……Geez man, have a little consistency.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:24 am

You are a LaFleur fan regardless. I prefer to comment on what I see. Good when it’s good and honest with myself about my team when it’s not. Keeping Love out there when he admitted he was immobile, restricting the O and with an injury prone to get so se once incurred is terrible leadership, for the player and team, in this game and potentially for future ones and thus the season.

We got better in the run game the moment good entered, and it’s not because he’s a better QB, just one able to move effectively. That Love was allowed to stay in while that incapacitated until eventually he couldn’t make it to the sideline is the absence of leadership. To try and hide behind LaFleur’s expertise for deny that says it all. Go ahead, cherish your idol, but don’t expect the rest of us to be so uncritically accepting.

As to your comments re Hafley, if you really think that then you don’t know what I wrote before stating your version of it and you don’t know what happened in the game. But then again, your real intent was to blindly defend LaFleur through criticizing me for criticizing Hafley, whom you the go on to criticize in turn, but on a pretty tenuous basis. Pretty clear LaFleur idolization is your primary driver. I follow the Packers and nothing LaFleur did in the game yesterday deserves applause.

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GregC's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:26 am

Love got injured early yet he managed to go 14 of 22 and put up 196 yards passing in just over one half of football. He was still throwing the ball quite well in spite of his limited mobility. So I understand why LaFleur kept him in there.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:37 am

Dunno GregC. Although the stats were good, I thought Love was lobbing the ball (high arc) more than usual and didn't have his usual zip on his passes. It looked like he couldn't really step into his throws.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:53 am

Most of his passes are that type of trajectory, I’ve always thought he lobs the ball. At times he will zip it into a tight window. The one pass to Doubs along the sidelines was a perfect example where he zipped it right into his hands on close coverage. To me, I thought he could zip it if needed.

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:33 am

I agree: I've been accusing Love of being a 'serial lobber' for awhile, but those passes appear to be mostly on the boundary. He seems to throw balls between the numbers with more zip, as you note.

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:36 am

He likes to "drop the ball in the bucket" with an arc on his throws because it defeats the underneath defender. It's a touch pass, except it's 30 yards downfield. He can throw hard strikes if he needs to.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:37 am

No they aren’t, all good QBs lob at times, it’s needed for timing/touch and trajectory. However, Love can and does flat throw often. Yesterday he visibly couldn’t plant and throws that ordinarily would be flat had an arc. One could argue that the one intercepted arrived a tad late for that reason. Hell, Love was at 2/3 speed even on handoffs in the second quarter.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:30 am

"In any case it was a bad day for LaFleur."

I didn't really understand the game plan either. Jax was sixth in the league in run defense, but way down the list is passing defense. So why try to run the ball so much in the first half unless he knew Love was injured and couldn't throw as well? In which case he should have pulled Love immediately if he wasn't healthy enough to execute the game plan. Willis is a good enough backup QB that he didn't need to leave an injured Love out there.

Just some odd decisions.........

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:56 am

Maybe Mlf knew something you don’t by just looking at stats. In the end, Jacobs had his best game against that 6th ranked run D. IN addition, I think they rushed for 170+ yards. Pretty smart coaching I’d say.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:10 am

Would never argue that I am better informed than MLF. However most of the time you attack known weaknesses, not known strengths.

Additionally most of that rushing yardage was gained after Willis entered the game and the Packers seemingly had to run. During the first half the Packers didn't run the ball very well. Smart coaching or forced coaching in the second half?

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:35 am

Agreed. And, whatever the case, the OL was generating room for Jacobs to run...even though Jax has a good run D (statistically) and knew this was the likely adjustment coming from the Packers.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:40 am

Some of it was the speed of transition/handoff. Go back and watch and Love’s handoffs were slowed down, telegraphing and decreasing momentum. Willis’ were much faster and that helped Jacobs,

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:00 am

I think you would agree that yards don’t always come easy in the beginning of the game but if you are persistent you wear down a defense and the yards come easier. Again, I think Mlf gets credit to exposing something. Also, stats don’t always tell the story. There is so much that goes into it, like injuries, who the team played, how the game was played out…etc…

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:59 am

I think choosing to get 170 on the ground is good coaching.

"Hey, MLF....what's the plan?"
"Oh, we're going to run it a bunch, get over 150 on the ground, and then hurt them with some play action passes. We're going to try not to throw it more than about 25 times all game."

" Do you think that'll work?"

"I think we can score 30 or more".

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GregC's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:34 am

So the Packers put up 170 rushing yards against the 6th ranked run defense, and oh yeah, they also had 252 passing yards and scored 30 points, and people are STILL complaining? Keep in mind, this was all with a hobbled QB, then with a backup QB. If this is bad coaching, sign me up for more bad coaching please!

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 12:01 pm

On the road. You forgot to mention this was on the road. And yes, we got 30, but we could have chosen to go for 34.

This was described, by Coldworld, as "having a bad day".

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 12:38 pm

It still is. No matter how many mental somersaults you go through to deny that.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 28, 2024 at 03:42 pm

Jacobs had 98 of his 128 rushing yards after contact and forced 8 missed tackles, per PFF. I thought GB should re-sign Aaron Jones and wasn't so keen on paying Jacobs big money. But Jacobs is a back that grows on you as you watch (and appreciate him) over the course of a season. I do think the OL needs a back that can do something with less than ideal running lanes. So, I am recanting my miserly ways and eating crow on signing Jacobs. He put the team on his back, again.

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Coldworld's picture

October 29, 2024 at 07:32 am

To me the question over Jacobs was whether he was in decline after a down year. He’d been an excellent back prior to that by any definition. He’s looked pretty good to me. He’s a totally different proposition to Jones though. I think most of us would have loved to have both in tandem, but having a back who can grind yards throughout games is a big plus for a team like ours. Its helped our OL look better and blunts the rush for more snaps per game. Not better this year particularly. Different but certainly not worse.

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:33 am

When you start using words like "reprehensible" , saying Lafleur had "no trust in Willis" and some of the other trash that you've thrown at LaFleur, it makes me think it's just another agenda driven attack. We scored 30, could have been 34, on the road. For the second straight week we've taken our final possession down the field for a winning score.

That's your definition of LaFleur having a bad day.

As regards beating Detroit...that game isn't for 6 days yet. If you can't enjoy the victories, what the hell is the point of being a fab.

Nobody is as good, or as bad, as they look at any given time. Detroit looked good, but nobody's that good. They have 10 takeaways in their last 3 games. The Titans looked like one of the worst teams in the league having a bad day.

You are correct that it isn't critical that we beat Detroit, but I think it's really hard to win the division if we can't beat our division rivals on our home field. This is a big game. I think, and this is JMO, that Green Bay has the better organization, better front office, better HC, better QB, and better defense, and the Packers should win this game.

If they do, we're in a real good spot with the bye week coming up. If they don't, we're still in a solid spot at 6-3, but we'd be two games behind Detroit We'd absolutely have to beat them in Detroit to have any chance at the division title.

I don't dislike the idea of starting Willis if Love is banged up and isn't at least 85%. But if LaFleur doesn't make the same decision I would, it doesn't make him reprehensible.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:42 am

A decision was reprehensible, not the person. If LaFleur starts an immobile Love then he puts the season on the line for no significant upside. Groin injuries like that do not heal overnight and are highly prone to aggravation. If LaFleur plays it cautious with Willis, we lose. I think most know that. Big we lose because Willis is used aggressively, so be it, go down fighting. No one to blame under the circumstances.

We won’t be favorites anyway and wouldn’t be if Love were the picture of health. We have yet to really fire on O and our D is still up and down. Absent a miracle healing, the best policy is to heal Love over the bye and go all out with Willis in the interests of the season.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:45 am

Let’s give Mlf some Kudo’s in training and communicating to Brooks to go down and not score a TD. If they don’t do this there would be 53 seconds and 2 time outs left for them to go down and score.

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:52 am

I agree: we're giving Brooks a lot of credit and these guys want to score, but there had to be some coaching involved to put it into their heads to play the clock. Credit to Brooks for listening and executing, credit to the coaching staff for putting this nugget in their melons.

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:00 am

Yes, and someone down voted it…..lol…. Can you imagine the bashing Mlf would’ve got if Brooks scored and Jaqs went down and scored with a 2pt conversion and beat us.

Wouldn’t it be nice to know who downvoted that comment! Who in their right mind doesn’t think you should run the clock out and kick a chip shot in that situation. Or, maybe it’s just a Mlf hater and any compliment towards him deserves a down vote.

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:13 am

"Wouldn’t it be nice to know who downvoted that comment!"

Nah. People do what people do.

On your comment, I posted yesterday that I might've gone for 2 if I were Jax when they tied it on the Engram TD. There were good arguments made as to why they might not have done it. I don't know if the calculus would've changed if they ran the field and scored a late TD following a TD by Brooks. Maybe.

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T7Steve's picture

October 28, 2024 at 09:34 am

They have a system called the "Rolex Plan" and work it in practice for keeping the clock running. Still good on Brooks.

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:38 am

murf......think about a MLF hater who spends a lot of time on this board, and you'll know who it was. There's a limited pool of candidates.

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Bitternotsour's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:49 am

so it couldn't be that the player was just smart? that he exercised agency?

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Leatherhead's picture

October 29, 2024 at 10:26 am

I remembered when Brandon Bostick exercised agency, because he thought he was smart.

These are experienced, professional coaches. I think it's highly unlikely that none of them mentioned that they wanted to burn the clock down and kick a FG.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 07:53 am

I don’t give LaFleur credit for yesterday. His was a dreadful performance strategically as a HC and a pretty darn poor one as an OC. If someone told Brooks to go down before the line, good. Maybe Brooks just knew to do that though.

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Guam's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:23 am

Local paper quoted LaFleur as saying that Brooks was specifically told not to score. They call it a "Rolex" play to manage the clock. Credit Brooks for listening - that would have been his first NFL touchdown.

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barutanseijin's picture

October 28, 2024 at 02:49 pm

We all know what you’re going to say about Lafleur. Next time save yourself the trouble of typing it out.

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Leatherhead's picture

October 29, 2024 at 10:29 am

Of course not. His dreadful performance included scoring 30+, on the road. It included engineering a game-winning drive with his backup QB. There's no reason to give him any credit.

Sadly, this looks like LaFleur Derangement Syndrome. He could win every game 40-0 and you'd still be second guessing him and giving the credit to every one but him.

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dobber's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:04 am

Several front-line players dinged up yesterday: Love, Williams, Alexander...Jacobs apparently limped off late, which is what set the stage for Brooks to make that "fall-down" to kill clock. The Packers moved Nixon inside and played both Valentine and Stokes when Williams went out...I had to "Wayne and Larry" the game yesterday and haven't had the chance to watch a replay, yet, but the implication from their commentary was that neither Stokes nor Valentine were playing well, but by then, Lawrence was playing in rhythm and playing better.

I come back to the point that the Packers struggle to generate pressure, even with what seems on paper to be a good edge group. I was hoping Wyatt's return would catalyze more push and disruption--they certainly gave him snaps--but it really didn't seem to work out that way. Until they find a way to be more disruptive in the pocket, we're going to see some white-knuckle finishes.

Some are beating on LaFleur for not pulling Love sooner, but coaches tend to allow players to decide if they're able to play and be effective. QBs in particular can still be effective playing from the pocket and there's a lot of pressure on QBs to lead even when hurt. It took until after halftime--and probably some stiffening up--before Love came out.

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:13 am

""The offensive line was adequate with its run blocking. The Packers gained 170 yards on 39 carries....

IMO, that's a little better than adequate. If, before every game, you told me that we'd get 170 on the ground, I'd be happy with that. The Packers have one of our all-time franchise best ground attacks this year, and Love is one of the best protected QBs in the league. As long as we don't have to go more than 6 deep, we can win with this bunch. It's good, IMO, not adequate.

For the second week in a row, with possession of the ball and time on the clock, the Packers offense moved the ball down the field and scored the winning points on their final drive. With two different QBS. How is that happening if we're not getting people blocked?

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Bitternotsour's picture

October 28, 2024 at 10:55 am

Sorta remarkable that such an untalented unit racks up such commendable numbers. It's as though the sum of the parts are a better indicator of line play than PFF analysis.

Also, for those in the back. Josh Jacobs is a bell cow, Aaron Jones would be broken today. Trust your GM

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murf7777's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:04 am

I still miss Jones, but totally agree…..Wish they could’ve kept both, hate to see him in Purple!!

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stockholder's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:18 am

Agree. But he'll be a Jet next.

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Bitternotsour's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:32 am

That's actually funny, but no. That ship has sailed, the Jets pretty clearly see that they built their structure on a foundation of sand. Old sand, old, unreliable, douchey sand.

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Coldworld's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:47 am

I wonder if Rodgers is playing next year and if so whether he’s a Jet. I don’t know what he could have done with that OL, but he’s clearly declined (as most of knew was happening) as well. It’s a sad end, but it’s not all on him. Brady would have been approximately as bad at the same age behind that line.

With respect to the ‘Jones would be broken by now’ comment, I agree but I’m touching wood heavily after Jacobs limped off. Hopefully nothing more than cramp!

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Leatherhead's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:50 am

In a freshman psychology class over 50 years ago, we studied an experiment where a worm could turn left in a T maze and get a morsel, or turn right and get nothing. It turned right over 100 times in a row. Moral of the story: Worms are stupid.

Which brings me to the Jets. There's a reason they haven't been to the Super Bowl since Namath. There's a reason they are consistently bad. As Red Foreman would say to Eric, "Bad things happen to you because you're a dumbass".

We undervalue the advantage of our organization.

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barutanseijin's picture

October 28, 2024 at 02:52 pm

The Jets never learn. That’s why they’re the Jets.

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jannes bjornson's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:33 am

Bucky Irving is still my 3rd down guy, but he went with MarShawn Lloyd in rd 3, for the bigger guy who has not seen the field. A. Jones is already slowing down for the queens. It is a money deal and Jacobs is the Bell Cow guy. He will dominate in Nov-Dec. if they keep him healthy. The Jets should be put into draft position after TR
Nite's charade.

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LLCHESTY's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:39 pm

How is Jones slowing down? He has over 500 yards rushing despite missing a game and is on pace for over 50 catches.

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Bitternotsour's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:34 am

Love the uniform, the players are transitory. A lesson Stockholder cannot quite wrap their brain around.

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stockholder's picture

October 28, 2024 at 11:45 am

I can but Gute can't -
Replacements costs too. More!
And the clock keeps ticking on All personal.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 28, 2024 at 03:55 pm

I typed adequate, erased it, and said to myself, whatever: I wrote adequate a game or two ago when they had 179 yards on the ground and got chastised in the comments.

IDK: I think the OL did enough for Jacobs to run hard and get yards. Wilson again can't seem to get any yards while working in the same system (and I like Wilson). OTOH, Chris Brooks manages to get along - he has 40 yards on 11 carries, which includes banging 3 times into the center of TN's defensive line for 3 yards just to kill clock. I will be interested in seeing how Marshawn Lloyd looks when he returns.

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LLCHESTY's picture

October 28, 2024 at 08:41 pm

How many extra yards did Jacobs get after getting hit at the LOS? He's having a good year but too much of that has been on him, they need to be more consistent and turn his good year into a great year.

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Coldworld's picture

October 29, 2024 at 07:36 am

98 of 127 per PFF (from memory).

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NFLfan's picture

October 28, 2024 at 12:31 pm

Fans have downplayed Love's ligament injury as well. We settled on a 2-week recovery and called it good.
But he has been wearing a fairly big brace on his left leg since his injury. And it likely affects his lateral mobility and accuracy. We give an entire year to a player with an ACL surgical repair.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 28, 2024 at 04:10 pm

PFF Stuff/PFF thinks I'm An Idiot:

1. TE Tucker Kraft: 82.5
2. QB Malik Willis: 78.6
3. RB Josh Jacobs: 76.1
4. QB Jordan Love: 74.6
5. OL Jordan Morgan: 71.7

1. C Josh Myers: 44.0
2. TE Ben Sims: 45.5
3. LT Rasheed Walker: 52.6
4. LG Elgton Jenkins: 53.9
5. WR Jayden Reed: 54.3

Nice to see Jordan Morgan coming along. PFF gave Myers a 38 run blocking grade. Walker had a holding penalty and Jenkins allowed two pressures, so perhaps the lower grades were not related to run blocking.

1. LB Eric Wilson: 81.1
2. LB Edgerrin Cooper: 74.3
3. CB Jaire Alexander: 72.1
4. DE Preston Smith: 70.4
5. DL Karl Brooks: 67.9

1. DL TJ Slaton: 37.3
2. DB Javon Bullard: 44.5
3. CB Keisean Nixon: 46.0
4. CB Eric Stokes: 46.7
5. DL Devonte Wyatt: 55.2

Eric Wilson had a bunch of tackles and did not allow a catch in coverage. Brooks had 2 pressures and a run stop. Smith had 1 QB hit and was good against the run. Cooper missed 2 tackles but made a bunch of plays. The upside is really bright. Jaire allowed 1 catch for 2 yards. Slaton missed tackles [again]. Bullard missed 2 tackles, allowed 4 receptions for 63 yards and a touchdown. Stokes allowed 2 catches for 43 yards in just 16 coverage snaps. Wyatt had just 1 hurry in 15 pass rushing opportunities.

All information is per PFF. My only editorial input in this comment was mentioning that Slaton missed tackles - again. Now, I will add that despite what I have read in the comments, I didn't think Valentine had problems in this game. The defense was completely different after Evan Williams left the game after just 18 snaps. Jacksonville had 3 three and outs, an interception, and a 6 play touchdown drive while Williams was on the field (as far as I can tell from the play by play).

PFF indicated that the Packers generated 9 pressures on Jacksonville's 36 drop backs. Gary had 3 pressures, and no one else had more than 1. That ain't going to cut it. Lawrence is not particularly mobile.

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Mister Chievous's picture

October 29, 2024 at 11:08 am

the jags defense stepped aside and gave brooks the 8 yard run. in reality Brooks had 3 Carries for 8 yards, which is nothing.

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