Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Mixed Signals

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Why, Joe? - I'm seriously left to wonder how much better the Packers defense could have been if they weren't letting teams extend drives by doing stupid shit as shown in the image below on third down: First, have the Packers ever fooled anyone into believing an all-out blitz was coming by lining up like this? Add the fact there are three receivers on the Rams' right side and only two Packers DBs. But wait, they had a plan! De'Vondre Campbell would make like Superman and drop back from being on the line of scrimmage and be able to cover that speedy receiver. In the famous words of Jon Lovitz, "Yeah, that's the ticket!"

 

 

Mixed Signals - How deliciously ironic is it that the Packers were actually trying to get Watson a TD near the end of their final drive (two straight targets), but on the second, Watson misses the Rodgers hand signal (maybe it was from three years ago?). Watson doesn't even know the pass is going to him. If you're unaware of what I'm talking about or have heard about the article but don't have a subscription to The Athletic, you can watch this interview with the author of the Athletic article.  She'll fill you in on what some Packers' current and former receivers had to say about how Rodgers' hand signals are not specifically taught or even explained by Rodgers himself. By the way, Rodgers poo-poohed the article as "...by far the dumbest, nothing burger article that I have read in the entire season." But of course, he would say that.

Bye, Bye Sammy - I'm wondering if Watkins, comments (in that article) that there are "two offenses in one" in Green Bay (LaFleur's and then all the things Rodgers wants you to do a certain way), were not appreciated.

Ed Wood - Psst, here's a little secret. If you see a post on here from "Ed Wood" please realize it's just us trying to pay the bills with a sponsored post. As you probably know, we are fully self-funded here. There's no venture capital firm backing us, no partnership with a nationwide network of sports websites, etc. That's by choice - it keeps us independent and not beholden to doing things the way some corporate entity wants us to. Sure, the quality of those posts are not great - but we get paid to publish them and I try to limit how many we do. So don't let it bother you. In fact, if you see "Ed Wood as the author, feel free to skip it altogether. Thanks for your understanding. 

Run to Win - I heard a really interesting stat on the Lemps Talking Pack podcast Tuesday morning (awesome "day-after" game review podcast). At the 2:36 point of the 3rd quarter, after Rodgers threw a TD pass to Aaron Jones, the Packers had run 39 offensive plays.28 of those plays involved giving the ball to Aaron Jones or AJ Dillon. The result was 24 points, and the Packers' offense (as constituted) looked like I, and probably you, envisioned it would this year. 

Take a knee - How do you feel about LaFleur's decision to go into victory formation for three plays on the Rams' one-yard line to end the game? After the game, LaFleur said something along the lines of "that's how you handle winning in this league." Do you think that's accurate or is LaFleur just showing his "nice guy" side once again? After all, there are playoff tiebreakers based on point differential.

Call me skeptical - Ok, so the Packers beat two bad teams. That does not give me confidence that they can beat the next three teams in their path, which of course is a MUST to keep their slim playoff chances alive.

You're blocked - How about that block by Christian Watson on the Aaron Jones TD reception? That DB is still looking for his shoes and picking grass out of his teeth.

Splinters - Darnell Savage was reduced to one snap from scrimmage. It happened to be that 3rd and 15 a few minutes into the game where the Packers secondary lined up 18-20 yds downfield and stayed there watching Van Jefferson catch a pass in front of them for an incredibly easy and uncontested first down conversion. 

 

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

11 points
 

Comments (197)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
nygary's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:10 am

Joe Barry is such a bad coach. I watch teams running the ball down our throat and he tries to stop it with 2 DL. That photo you posted with it being 3rd and 4, and our db's are playing so far off the ball should say it all.

13 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:34 am

When I saw the formation, I was Expecting one of the DBs to call a Timeout for a reset as the slot was uncovered.
I feel more comfortable with McDuffie on the field and let Campbell move on. This defense is not playing as a Unit, or displaying anything close to smart football.

0 points
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marpag1's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:59 am

Honestly, I have very little doubt that Sammy Watkins was cut for no other reason than that he was almost a complete non-factor, except for throwing a few good run blocks now and then. Not sure why I would question that.

11 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:43 am

I can only think of one reason....

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:38 am

LaFleur sounded so cut up about it, essentially made it clear that it was not his call. The man can’t separate himself from his personal attachments. I think it’s part of the reason why line up changes are either forced or long overdue and good performance is not reflected in more snaps. It certainly sounds like LaFleur would have kept him active. I think it suggests he was the brake on moving on from Rodgers. Thank goodness Gute forced his hand on both.

To your point Al, no, that’s not how winning teams do it, and especially those for whom points differential might matter. It’s not a big thing in isolation, but it’s one of many issues that show LaFleur is not a head coach personality and his teams and coaches largely reflect it. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we start to win some we shouldn’t and all that goes with that.

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:37 am

If he was so enamored with Watkins play, he could have sat one of the OTs they are carrying for the Inactive list.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:10 am

It’s not play it’s the personal relationships that he struggles to handle

2 points
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stockholder's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:09 am

Why Joe ? It might have something to do with the safeties.
Not only is Amos slowing down. Savage’s “Splinters" signals the problems of a secondary.
And when you have a DL almost last in the NFL. He’s doing everything to stop the run, and show they miss Gary.
But how can you trust a DC, when he only rushes Lowrey and Reed?
I’m tired of the Defensive excuses since 2010. Can we just go back to the 4-3-4?
It took Devante Adams 3 years to become one of the NFLs best Wrs. I don’t care what signals Rodgers uses.
Either they're on the same page with him. Or they’ll get the universal Language.
Example- Lazard after the INT. 2 Targets? Throw in Watkins. It does add up.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:46 am

Amos is not old. I don’t think it’s likely just slowing down. Moreover, no one seems to have a clue at the back end of the D this year, as we saw on Monday. I don’t think it’s wholly any player, I think it is too consistent and too general to be. Sadly that’s got to be the calls/scheme/coaching in large part. I think retaining Barry is causing additional issues over time. as well as sustaining the ones we’ve seen almost season. That’s not unusual if a coach is failing. It’s one reason why one removes a coach mid season. It’s not necessarily true that Gray would be better, but it allows a reset and at least a chance to fill in some ruts. I firmly believe a competent HC would have seen that with Barry.

5 points
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Johnblood27's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:07 am

much like we see on the field every week, the players do not like what barry is scheming them to play, I believe that what you mention above is coach gray 'expressing' his displeasure of being on the barry staff.

everyone on the defensive side of the ball will do a better job when barry is long gone.

does mlf have the pebbles to actually make a move?

doubtful.

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:49 am

One, or both, must go.

2 points
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stockholder's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:44 pm

Watch him run in the cold! He couldn't stay with anyone. He's got to play in warm weather now.

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:39 pm

Watching Higbee catch a TD while you stand flat-footed, has nothing to do with coaching. It is about Desire.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:53 pm

That was Douglas and he looked caught between choices to me.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:02 pm

Indeed, both guys, but Amos is the safety reading the QB. He has to come up and blast the TE.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:59 pm

Amos has not played to his normal standards by any means, I just don’t buy the “old” explanation in his case. The malaise seems wider and more complex.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:19 pm

Amos made a business decision to come to Green Bay, and he's making business decisions now, too. He's still at least a starting safety in the league, and will be next year, too, for some good money....unless he goes and breaks himself doing something stupid.

I have no answer for Savage other than to say that a guy doesn't just forget how to play football, and if he was a good player in college and has been a decent pro, he doesn't just suddenly go bad. It's a perplexment, and he's a $7 million check for next year. I suspect we'll have new people at safety next year

Three more games. Let's see what happens.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:45 am

Ford is definitely not the answer. It was his call as the single-high to reset the coverage or call the timeout on the 3rd and 4. He is a sp teams guy, emergency safety, but cannot be resigned for anything but the minimum. Savage should have been moved at the trade deadline. Get a guy who coached under Spags or McDermott and run a 4-2/4-3 scheme. You want a middle Linebacker? Check out Noah Sewell. He would be too aggressive for Barry's flag football schemes. They learned their schemes from Jim Johnson. The Master.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:14 am

Ford is inexperienced at S. Perhaps that’s something that will take time. I’m not as ready to write him off as a starter or backup yet. S typically is a position that takes time.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:33 am

He's a dime guy at best.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:26 am

Why Joe... I shudder to think exactly HOW Barry plans on playing defense against Hill and Waddle this weekend. Both players have speed for days, Hill possibly the fastest player in the NFL. Throw in Mostert and you have 3 players with Watson type speed, and just one CB who can run with Hill or Waddle. I think Christmas Day will have a shit ton of "Why Joe" moments throughout the game.

Run to win...Hmmm...Remember the Dallas game? Didn't the Packers run the ball well in that game too? Matter of fact in 4 of the 6 wins they've run for at least 175 yards. Last week against the Rams it was 138 and against Tampa Bay it was just 67, but I wonder how many of those 67 were in the first few drives when they started out so well in that game? You know, it's just not rocket science yet the Packers, even with the smartest QB to ever play the the game, (yes I'm being sarcastic) just can't seem to add one plus one equals run the damn ball!

Call me skeptical... I'm right there with you Al and I don't think t's a mystery what the Packers have to do on Sunday. It starts with running the ball and sticking with the run. Christian Wilkins is a friggen beast and one of the best D-Linemen in the NFL against the run. But the Packers still have to stick with it regardless. Can Rodgers buy into that for the entire game is the question. SHORTEN the game. Limit the number of snaps the Miami offense is on the field because personally, I don't think Joe Barry will have a plan to do a damn thing to slow down the Dolphins offense.

You're Blocked... Thank you Al...Thanks for bringing up that block! Watson may not have caught a TD, but THAT block was a thing of beauty. I don't think the Packers will be able to keep Lazard this offseason. I think the Bears will offer him a shit ton of money and go play with Getsy next year. But IF the Packers actually do run the ball, it will be fun watching Lazard and Watson doing their jobs and laying the wood!

Splinters... I honestly believe Savage MIGHT be able to be serviceable under a different DC. Now I didn't say great, I said serviceable. I don't think you can HONESTLY evaluate what any defensive player is capable of. It's going to be an interesting offseason for sure.

9 points
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stockholder's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:09 am

Christian Wilkins is a beast. I wanted him before Gary. And Montez Sweat before Savage. Considered the best DL group in 10 years. Instead of fixing a DL. It's still a problem.
But the thinking is 3-4-4. Which Gary and the Smiths worked.
But it's not a long term solution. We will always be taking edge rushers. Because you never have enough.
The edge will always be a accident waiting to happen. The DE's/Dts are bigger, stronger and their bodies hold up against 325 pound OL.

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:04 am

I thought Gettleman was onboard for Gary, letting Wilkins come to the Pack and then, I agree, bag Montez Sweat. The Washington D-line has FIVE viable weapons up front, including Chase Young. Sorry, boys, In Gutey I don't trust. Your logic is flawless. This year's crop of Edge people are big dudes who can go up or hand-in-the-turf. DE type guys you can employ in a 4-2/4-3 scheme. No TEs will dislodge them. The big three still could not hold the Edge in 2020, or when it counted on 3rd and 8, in the fourth quarter @ Lambeau '21.

-1 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:16 pm

I like what Gutey did. We already have a good NT in Kenny Clark, and Rashan Gary is better than Sweat; he's one of the NFL's top pass rushers! Savage had potential to be good; we saw some of that in 2020, but the coaches screwed him.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 23, 2022 at 02:25 am

Clark is getting paid too much to be getting tied up inside. He is a 3 tech-5 tech they need to game with Wyatt and Slaton.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:15 pm

I like taking Rashan Gary over Wilkins because we already have a good NT in Kenny Clark, and Gary is one of the NFL's best OLBs. He can also play DE too, and I agree that we should go back to the 4-3-4

1 points
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packerbackerjim's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:25 am

NP, I think you’re right about how the defense will be gashed. The good news, it should seal Joe’s fate. Can Leonhard and/or Fangio be taking calls on 12/26?

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:52 am

How much does it take to make an obvious move? Nothing dislodged Drayton. My guess is that took some one else after the end of the season. It looks pretty likely that it took someone else to get LaFleur to let go of Amari and Watkins. Gute at least has that authority, but not over coaches. LaFleur is not a man capable of such decisions.

4 points
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dobber's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:59 am

"Nothing dislodged Drayton. My guess is that took some one else after the end of the season."

The most reasoned explanation on Drayton that I'd heard was that nobody is going to hire an outside coordinator mid-season, and that the coaching depth at STs (Rayna Stewart) is so thin--and that Stewart was essentially a coaching rookie--that it would be a self-defeating move to can Drayton mid-season. LaFleur also has to be looking at his ability to hire assistants in the future, and canning guys like that hampers that future process--the same has been said for his retaining JB through the season (ability to attract a top assistant), but I'm scratching my head on that one.

"It looks pretty likely that it took someone else to get LaFleur to let go of Amari and Watkins."

Gute signs those guys and Gute releases those guys. LaF and the assistants decide game plan and who gets on the field. If anything, the snap counts should have been sending Gute a message. These guys aren't getting it done--and I wouldn't read too much into AmRod having a "flash" for Houston. I'd argue that those releases are more on Gute and his pet projects than anything else.

-2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:14 am

But what about the silo philosophy?

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:21 am

I think Gute did make the decisions on Rodgers and Watkins. I think LaFleur really couldn’t and would have held onto them had Gute not, based on LaFleur’s reaction and probably would have kept them active. That’s my point there.

I don’t buy the STs excuse. If it’s that disastrous you take your chances with depth or interim. In any case, Barry seems to dispute that. Gray would be a logical replacement on staff. If he’s part of the problem, he shouldn’t have been here either and Barry didn’t bring him in. Sorry, but when there’s a need there’s a way. We just chose not to find one despite the signs that the problem was endemic, persistent and capable of deteriorating.

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:01 pm

Lions canned one of their defensive coaches midseason and have gone 6-1 since. Sometimes you gotta forget the outside noise and shake things up inside the building. No guts, no glory. Also worth noting, the coach the Lions cut was promptly rewarded with a job by the Packers. Cant make this up.

4 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:30 pm

And correspondingly, the Packer secondary has been getting worse with his acquisition.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:55 pm

Actually, we are using him on offense so that’s presumably not his fault.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:39 am

"I shudder to think exactly HOW Barry plans on playing defense against Hill and Waddle this weekend. Both players have speed for days, Hill possibly the fastest player in the NFL."

We all know how he will play it. CB's 10 yards off the ball, soft zone only and 2 DL every down.

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:19 am

Without Stokes, their Dime scheme will be futile. An unreliable Savage lends the nickel nothing. Put Nixon in the nickel spot. Ask Amos if he wants to play the Game, or take a powder on the waiver wire. This is a shootout scenario. Score points. Hold nothing back, LaFleur.

-1 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:18 pm

I dont think Lazard will want to be back. Remember, he held out all offseason just to come back and have a finger pointed at him all season. I wouldnt want to be back either.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:39 pm

He will be replaced by a WR from round two or three.

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:02 pm

Who will also get screamed at and have fingers pointed at him for not knowing Rodgers' beloved signals.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:34 pm

They have to learn to be Pros. They get paid big coin to play the Game. Lazard has regressed. Dropped quite a few key passes over this season. I like Tillman out of Tennessee. Denny Green: "No room for Crybabies"

-2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:59 pm

Has Lazard regressed? He hasn’t had other threats around him and has been asked to do more. He is what I thought he was, a 3/4 receiver who can block and use size. I just think he’s what he always was but being played as if he’s more. It’s a sad fact that he was used as our number 1 early, when Watkins was out and with Doubs down until recently because LaFleur wouldn’t use the rookies or do so aggressively.

1 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:35 pm

In fact he will be easily replaced. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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HarryHodag's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:33 am

The good thing about football is, well, it's football. The bad thing about football is it only happens(most of the time) once a week. That gives fans a full week to micro-analyze everything.
Bottom line is the Packers beat a team they were supposed to. Next they play a team they're not supposed to beat. If they can take off their best "Miami Vice" garb for awhile and win against the Dolphins then it proves they have a shot. But beating the Vikings and especially the Lions will be no easy task. The Lions have the smell of a team that really wants it and they will also have to win, regardless of weather conditions.

At least the final games of the season will have some interest. How would you like to be a Texans fan?

8 points
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Handsback's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:55 pm

...If they can take off their best "Miami Vice" garb for awhile and win against the Dolphins then it proves they have a shot....
Harry, a shot at what? I loved everything you said, just don't believe the Packers have a shot at the P word. Don't want to say it because it hurts too much.
Quotes from other coaches and NFL players about the Packers; soft, broken, dysfunctional, and lost. I'm sure there are more but the team needs to start over and decide if they want a winter carnival destination or a Super Bowl team.

1 points
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Guam's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:36 am

Al: Appreciate the heads up on the "Ed Wood" articles. I read one and it was a real head scratcher and well below the typical content at CHTV. Now I know why. Thanks.

The article on hand signals and Sammy Watkins related comments are just confirmation of what many of us have long suspected. There are two offenses in Green Bay. I am sure most quarterbacks have hand signals and the longer they are in the league, the more they have, but I suspect Rodgers has taken it to a new level. The current offense looks nothing like the offense LaFleur talked about bringing to Green Bay and looks a lot like holdovers from the McCarthy regime. That has ramifications in many directions and everyone owns part of the blame at this point.

11 points
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dobber's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:47 am

"The article on hand signals and Sammy Watkins related comments are just confirmation of what many of us have long suspected. There are two offenses in Green Bay. "

Yup. There's been too much smoke for too long for there not to be fire on this. Anyone who's in that denial category at this point probably also goes to Flat-Earther conferences.

We've reached the stage where those who have said, "this is only a 6-win team without 12" need to look at the performance of the team with him this year and think about how a more seamless execution of the offense probably makes up for the potential loss in terms of talent--which, at this point, is declining.

8 points
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4
Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:55 am

Ultimately, such a dual approach should have been killed a long time ago. Either just stopped or incorporated into team coaching and teaching. One or the other. It is just a further sign of the incompetence of the coaching staff.

6 points
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dobber's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:34 am

With 12 being chosen by the front office at pretty much every turn in his career, any HC/playcaller hired or installed at this point has to be prepared to be only that in name. They have to expect it coming in the door.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:31 am

Hence the option to incorporate and embrace. If Rodgers has such power and is going to use the signals then the failure to embrace and incorporate it into a unitary training/planning calling strategy is unforgivable.

If you are hinting that the real problem is Murphy and LaFleur is but another symptom, then yes. But this issue could have been incorporated even by such an impotent coach as you suggest within the Rodgers-ocracy you depict. Either way LaFleur is unsuitable and at fault.

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:53 am

Guam, no reason for us to "suspect", Rodgers has flat out said it on more than one occasion.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:04 am

The interesting thing to me is the Lazard “stop” Because Lazard did exactly what Rodgers had previously said he expects his receivers to do; read the D, found the soft spot. Yet Rodgers did not and just threw unlooked, into what would at best have an inevitably contested location. The point is, if you train. Guys to read Ds snd react as Rodgers has openly claimed, then you have to expect them to do so and you have to account for that.

Lazard did what Nelson was very good at, Rodgers did something atypical for him. Was Lazard’s lack of targets after related? If it was, then I can see why some claim issues.

5 points
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Packers1985's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:00 am

As somebody mentioned here yesterday the ball already left from Rodgers hand before Lazard stopped and also looking all the remaining throws that Rodgers made this Sunday only that deep throw has been outlier. Even Cousins threw a similar interception when the receiver gave up on the Route. May be it is on Lazard again it's a may be.
I am not sure but i see this Lazard's approach has changed from the game against cowboys where Watson has broke out. From very next match we saw Lazard giving up on routes. May be Watson taking up the Wr1 has taken some mental toll on him? I always used to like lazard as seems to be tough and selfless guy and really like him as a Wr3 in this team but i have a feeling that Watson taking over that Wr1 has something to do with lazard's approach these last few weeks. His performance hasn't been not bad but not great either.
Just a thought

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:50 am

Lazard admitted his read was late. JS online. next.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:41 pm

Interesting though, because if his read was correct, Rodgers should have expected it not thrown to the coverage. That’s the point. Rodgers expects reads according to him, Lazard made one that looks a classical such read and response and yet Rodgers threw the ball as if he wouldn’t. Most route adjustments on reads are made around the time a ball is launched or before. The timing thing seems a red herring to me. Lazard falling on his sword perhaps too?

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:54 pm

I don't believe in extrapolation.

-2 points
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Guam's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:43 pm

Too many people confuse sight adjustments to a route as quitting on the route. WRs are coached to read and make sight adjustments to a defensive scheme. That may mean just sitting in the hole in a zone rather than completing the pre-snap route. Yes, the route stopped, but it is not quitting on the route. Sight adjustment is the receiver doing his job, quitting on a route is an entirely different matter.

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:30 am

As '61 suggested, maybe Rodgers knows more about offensive football in the Pro Game, than LaFleur. Didn't Peyton Manning run his own show during his later years? Noted in the article, Love sets the signals for the games and quizzes the Fetchers. A subtle movement by Rodgers and Davante would see the crease and make a big play. Not buying the fan's reactions.

0 points
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dobber's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:42 am

"Rodgers poo-poohed the article as "...by far the dumbest, nothing burger article that I have read in the entire season.""

Well, if it's only THIS season...

"Bye, bye, Sammy"

A shot in the dark. Didn't pan out. Best of luck to him. Note, though, that he was immediately picked up by the WR-decimated Ravens (where he played last year). Who else expects that we'll see him make some signature play for them before the season is out, yet?

"Packers' offense (as constituted) looked like I, and probably you, envisioned it would this year. "

It's an offense that way too often struggles to finish drives and--for the first time in a few years--turns the ball over too much (which means, just above league average). Fix either of those and this team is probably +2 in the win column. We're probably still bitching about the whole thing, but they're in the WC conversation, and MIN might not have clinched the division, yet.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:09 am

Unless Watkins was not trying in recent weeks, from what I saw he’s only going to make a signature play in walk throughs. Sad, but the one broken coverage play in game 2 was the only time I saw any burst from him, and that sent him to IR. He was just slow and not agile.

3 points
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dobber's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:01 am

"Unless Watkins was not trying in recent weeks, from what I saw he’s only going to make a signature play in walk throughs. "

I was arguing Murphy's Law, but point taken.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:35 am

I was waiting for a Murphy’s Law reference. Cookie for that.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:40 am

"
""It's an offense that way too often struggles to finish drives and--for the first time in a few years--turns the ball over too much (which means, just above league average). Fix either of those and this team is probably +2 in the win column."""

In a nutshell. Fix the offense and we're right back on top of the division. Priority #1 for the offseason. We have a lot of the pieces but we should add more pieces that fit together.

-1 points
1
2
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:58 pm

NO! We can't win with Barry as the DC,at least not in the playoffs. He is miserably incompetent. Yes, if you just want to win the division Rodgers or Love and our offense can get us there but not through the playoffs. We've seen enough of the defense and/or Special Teams giving away playoff games for stupidest off reasons.

Get an actual NFL legit DC and fix the parts of the offense like TE, another WR or 2 and better depth on the OL and then we're fine. But Barry and probably the entire coaching staff needs to be replaced, although I would want to keep Bisaccia.

The team lacks leadership from the coaching staff. Aggressive, take no prisoners leadership and attitude. It's been a significant factor since the 2010 SB team and longer term since the Holmgren era. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
3
1
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:25 pm

Move down in the first and use 2024 picks as needed to stock two picks or more in the second round and go to town. OT, CB, RB, TEs, WRs, Edge/DE x two and Keeanu Benton in the third. Bisaccia should be given his Holiday Bonus and extended. The rest are looking for their lumps of coal.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:59 pm

So if KC .....who has a worse defense than the Packers....wins in the playoffs.....what does that do your view of things? WE ARE AN AVERAGE defense....how does that result from a "miserable incompetent"

And yes, I want to win the division. You can't control who else makes the playoffs, but if you win the division you're in and you're at home and that's all anybody can ask for.

We had a blocked punt, and you say it gave the game away. I say the multiple, multiple, failures on offense counted much more than one failed play on special teams towards that loss. It certainly wasn't the defense.

Our losses this year...7 points at Minnesota, 9 at Detroit, 10 against the Jets...you can't hang those on the defense or special teams. We scored 17 twice, and lost both of those. Five losses where we couldn't get more than 17 points on the board.

Fix The Offense. This isn't about defense or special teams. It's about a BELOW AVERAGE offense this year and which played very poorly in our last playoff game, despite having some pretty good players on the field.

Do we want to be better in 2023? Then fix the offense, and that doesn't just mean add a bunch of targets and Day 3 line prospects.

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:53 am

We don't have to win three games. There's only one game to win EVER. The next one.

If the Packers don't get lucky with turnovers and consistently completing drives with TDs it will be hard to believe they'll be successful.

I think Savage will flourish again under good coaching, Stokes too. I think their speed is worth giving it a try. As Nick points out above, with their speed, that would be the only way we could come close to the three WRs of Miami this weekend.

Miami showed in Buffalo that they aren't afraid to keep running the ball. The Bills have a pretty good D. I don't suppose they'll want to try that against this vaunted Packer run D, will they? Look how they stuffed the Rams.

When was the last time the Lions swept the Packers? I was at a few games when Billy Sims dominated them. Everyone remembers Barry Sanders, but that Billy Sims was a guy to put fear into any defense at that time. Then came Walter.

1 points
2
1
Johnblood27's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:20 am

the LOLions swept the Packers in 2017. the 2017 LOLions were coached by Jim Caldwell and led in rushing by the vaunted Ameer Abdullah.

3 points
3
0
T7Steve's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:51 am

Thanks. I remember that now.

1 points
1
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Fubared's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:51 pm

Semantics dont get you to the playoffs, not only do you have to win out the teams, and their are many all have to lose out. Rodgers subley mentioned that in his short interview. There are two things that have to happen, good luck with that, season is really over.

3 points
3
0
T7Steve's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:34 pm

No point in worrying about the playoffs. Just win one now. Season's not over. I'll watch as many Packers games as possible. I guess you could call me a "Packer fan". I've been called worse and probably deserve it.

0 points
1
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:33 am

What does one say to Death? Not today.

0 points
0
0
MooPack's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:08 am

Mixed signals/Bye bye Sammy -
Careful Al. Your heading into blasphemous territory with some people by giving any credence to that fully discredited article, interview, and comments. Well, discredited by one person.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:40 am

The thing about hand signals is, even if you know them perfectly you have to see them. Any system, football or any other activity that doesn’t require the signal to be acknowledged by a signal of acknowledgement is going to lead to disaster

3 points
3
0
MooPack's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:13 pm

Yes, and the problem is not the hand signals, per se, even though their are 30+ to memorize in any given season. It's what Al paraphrased from the article (I'd suggest other people actually read it)

" Rodgers' hand signals are not specifically taught or even explained by Rodgers himself"

They are not written down to study. The coaches don't even know them. Instead it's on vet receivers to teach them to younger receivers, and even they forget them sometimes. And Rodgers may give one from 5 years ago. Ugh. No wonder rookie Packers receivers tend to take longer to develop. And sometimes they are too intimidated to go up to him for clarification. This pretty much goes to the heart of the trust issue. If Rodgers can't spend the time to personally teach his own hand signals...smh.

Also a piece just came out from Florio, and LaFleur confirmed, that until recently the whole offense were not getting together to study film. Instead they were working in their own position groups. Florio quoted Aikman that teams do that at times, but He also said it's much preferable and with better results if they all, or at least skill positions, got together to go over film. It's my opinion that this lack of communication from top down crippled the team this year.

Florio's article:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/12/21/matt-lafleur-confirms-v...

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:50 pm

If Florio’s article is correct, that’s almost as staggering as the revelation that our STs never practiced in pads till Bissacia insisted upon it. LaFleur just shows a lack of some incredibly basic head coaching understanding. Did he spend his entire time holed up with a “blackboard”?

5 points
5
0
MooPack's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:59 pm

Staggering is a great word for it. There are so many failures by this team and organizational decisions made this year all converging together that are staggering.

2 points
2
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 22, 2022 at 10:41 pm

slow

0 points
0
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 22, 2022 at 10:41 pm

it.

0 points
0
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 22, 2022 at 10:41 pm

down.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:24 pm

The WR Job Description is to Know the signals and watch the QB on first read. It is a very fast game at the Pro level. Watson will burn the opponent, next time.

-2 points
1
3
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:27 pm

In tennis doubles, the player in front signals coverage off the serve to his partner on the baseline by holding up fingers behind his back, and there's no acknowledgment. Also, in baseball, I never recall acknowledging what the third base coach was doing. I mean, I was watching, and I caught the signal, but I didn't indicate that I had received the message.

So that's 2, off the top of my head.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:27 pm

Some what different scenarios. no huddles, routine events and one specific individual who is awaiting an expected instruction with nothing much else going on.

0 points
0
0
MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:17 am

Call me skeptical: Anyone following the 22 version of the Packers is skeptical. I'm sure if we could go back in time and read the comments happening in 2016, that same sentiment was being voiced.

Call me cautiously hopeful that my realistic expectations don't come to fruition :)

0 points
1
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:21 am

Why, Joe? -
I saw your post on twitter and I commented on it during the game. The part I hated about this, its 3rd and 4. The CB's are 10 yards off the ball. Then they had Campbell covering their fastest/shiftiest WR. Why? I just don't get it. I'm not saying the CB needs to be jamming the WR's but how about they play 5 yards off the ball rather then 10.

Mixed Signals -
I will call it ironic. That the article came out about signals (which I did not read), and then there is a signal error in the game.
The way it looked to me Watson didn't even see the signal. Which is on him, he needs to be looking for signals and stuff. Chalk it up as a rookie mistake that he will learn from. And its a good type of mistake because it didn't cost us the game or anything.

Bye, Bye Sammy -
I didn't read the article so I can't comment on that part. I just know that Watkins after coming back from injury did almost nothing. His playing time went down of late as well. I thought Watkins was a good signing, but he really didn't do much for us.

Ed Wood -
Now I want to comment on any post from Ed Wood. This could be fun.

Run to Win -
It wasn't just running the ball but getting the RB's the ball in the passing game. They combined for 28 carries but also had 7 receptions. They were a huge part of the game plan. Which was a solid game plan. They easily could have had more points, but a few mistakes definitely affected that.

Take a knee -
I was fine with the knee. It ensured the win. Score again there and its rubbing it in. Now if they get the same opportunity against the Vikings in a couple of weeks. I will feel different.

Call me skeptical -
I feel like the offense is finally finding its groove since the Cowboys game. They have averaged 26.6 points per games since then. Before the Cowboys game they averaged 17.1 points per game. The offense has definitely found itself. Its the defense that has made me skeptical. Refer back to the first post. How can you play like that and expect to compete against good teams. You can't simply allow WR's free releases every 3rd down play.

You're blocked -
Watson has been an impact player all over the field. Yes his speed and playmaking ability with the ball in his hands are a huge asset. But he is also great without the ball in the hand.

Splinters -
Savage has been a huge disappointment this year. He has regressed bad this year. While its on him, i do wonder if how they are trying to use him is a reason why. Maybe he would be better with a different DC. Sometimes a players confidence is impacted by how they are being used.

4 points
6
2
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:26 pm

RC, speaking to your part about the offense finding its groove, Id like to call something to your attention over that span: the lack of RPO calls. It seems that God-awful chunk of the playbook has finally been put in the shredder where it belongs and now the offense is somewhat thriving. I called for the death of that play last year. Not only is Lafleur way late to make personnel adjustments, he's also slow to scrap plays that clearly suck. Late is better than never I guess, but I dont know what what he was thinking making it the center of the offense to begin this season.

0 points
2
2
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:49 pm

Agreed, it is a college offense. One read pass, or the QB takes off running....

1 points
2
1
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:09 pm

Theres NFL teams who feast off of it but it requires a qb with running ability which makes it a 3 option play. When you dont have the running qb, it becomes a 2 option play. And when you have a non running qb who doesnt really like to hand the ball off, you now have a pass play where 9 other guys are playing run. It can work, but not with this quarterback.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:49 pm

Ask Hurts and Lamar Jackson how they are feeling right now...Huntley was just whacked in the Pittsburgh game and out with a concussion.

1 points
2
1
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:28 pm

Non-running qb's get hurt in the pocket just as much, if not more, than running qb's do. In fact, most running qb's get hurt while trying to pass in the pocket too. Theres no way to stop qb's from getting hurt unless you only hand the ball off to running backs.

-3 points
1
4
LeotisHarris's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:36 am

Al, I've good naturedly busted your chops on Ed Wood in the past with the understanding that content helps keep the lights on. Ed Wood, dead wood. morning wood, it's all good. You do what ya gotta do. I appreciate being able to drop in here and participate in the shenanigans, so I purchase the Draft Guide. I encourage my fellow miscreants to do so as well.

I thought taking a knee at the end of the game was a classy move.

10 points
10
0
pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:32 am

"I thought taking a knee at the end of the game was a classy move"...I hear ya Leotis...just like your picture. :)

3 points
3
0
Johnblood27's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:23 am

MLF - on his knees - all too familiar to me....

3 points
4
1
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:40 am

" Ed Wood, dead wood. morning wood, it's all good"

Words to live by. Is it available in a T-shirt?

And I agree on the kneel down. And I'm going to get the draft guide on your recommendation.

5 points
5
0
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:28 pm

I'd buy that shirt lol

1 points
1
0
Packers0808's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:38 am

Our DEFENSE is more like PEEFENSE under Barry with very little electricity! Most of the time Shockingly bad!

4 points
5
1
pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:34 am

"Our DEFENSE is more like PEEFENSE"...if that is the case 0808, we better have more than urin 8 men on the field at all times!

1 points
2
1
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:12 am

I'm sorry, but I've had all I can stand of this narrative.

Facts, according to pro-football-reference.

Defensive scoring average: 22.4 ppg, 17th in the league. AVERAGE.
3rd down conversion average: 38%, 12th in the league. AVERAGE.
First downs: 267, 9th in the league. BETTER THAN AVERAGE
Opposing QB rating: 91.2, 19th in the league. AVERAGE.

On measure after measure after measure, this is an average NFL defense.

2 points
4
2
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:29 pm

Yeah its average across the board but with 7 1st round picks it shouldnt be. Thats the problem. There's DC's out there getting a whole lot more with a whole lot less talent.

6 points
6
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:18 pm

We're missing two of those first round picks, Stokes and Gary.

I'm going to have to disagree with your choice of a "whole lot more with a whole lot less"

I'm using the Broncos as an example here. They're #3 in scoring defense, even though they have kind of anemic offense that can't keep the defense on the sidelines. They've given up 63 fewer points than the Packers, divided by 14 games is about 4.5 ppg. That's not insignificant, but if the Packers had held every team we played to 5 points less, it would have only moved one game from the loss column to the win column, the Washington game.

Only one team has gone over 28 on us this year, and Denver has had it happen twice. Denver, despite having the #3 defense, is not making the playoffs. Four of the top 9 defenses are good bets to miss the playoffs.

To summarize, even the best defensive teams in the league aren't a "whole lot" better than the Packers (SF is the possible exception). They're a little better. It's like, on one drive, they've held the opponents to a FG instead of a TD. That's the difference.

IMO, you focus on the offense. The 9 top offensive teams are all at .500 or better. The Top 4 offensive teams....KC, Buffalo, Philly, and Dallas....are almost certainly going to be well represented when we get down to 4 or 8 teams. Three of those teams have a defense that's about a FG per game better than us, and KC is actually worse.

Bottom Line: You can win in this league with an average defense and good offense more easily than you can with a good defense and an average offense.

-2 points
1
3
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:36 pm

I think theres some confusion between us here LH. All I was saying was that the defense should be better. Im not in anyway hanging the disappointment of this season on their heads tho. Im in 100 agreeance that the biggest problem with this team is the offense. However, that doesnt mean the defense hasnt been a disappointing too.

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:39 am

4.5 points per game is enormous.

1 points
1
0
Packers0808's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:46 pm

What a sham of reasoning!

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:17 am

Why Joe? For those who complain that the defense is on the field too long and the poor babies get tired this clip from AL is perfect. This is an automatic first down and it has been happening this entire season. I don't watch other teams play any longer but I doubt if any other defense lines up like like this on a 3rd and short situation. This just stupid! No excuses, fire Barry and move on already.

Mixed signals - Has anyone thought to ask Watson what route he thought he was running on that play? As for Rodgers he has been using signals with his WRs for over 10 seasons at least. He's done it with Driver, Jennings, Jordy and Adams not to mention a few others over the years. And QBs have used hands signals for decades in noisy stadiums when they play on the road. Also going all the way back to Johnny U QBs have run their own versions of "the offense". As for Rodgers he's probably forgotten more about running an offense than MLF will ever know so I have no problem if he recognizes the defense and calls a play that will work better than the original play call. Back in the day when QBs called all of their own plays and no one realized that it as happening. Johnny U basically invented the Colts passing game as he was playing. I don't get why any of this is an issue. This erroneous concept that the QB is subversive if he changes the play or calls a different play is ludicrous. He's on the field, he understands his team, he's trying to win the game, which is part of his job as the QB. To me HCs calling the plays are the ones with egos who are trying to live out their own professional frustrations through their players executing "their play calls". It's as if they believe that their players are too stupid to call their own play and in some cases that is actually true. but not in Rodgers case and many other QBs over the years. During the Lombardi era Lombardi called exactly zero plays whether Starr or Bratkowski or another QB was playing. I just don't understand why any of this should be an issue.

Sammy - should never have been here in the first place. Thanks for nothing Gute.

Run to Win - That was the game plan against a depleted Rams DL. I'm not sure that should be the game plan against every opponent. Also it has been obvious earlier this season that the OL was not effective in supporting the run game or the passing game for that matter. Now the OL is finally coming together and it is paying off. The Packers OL played more aggressively than we have seen all season in this game. Will they keep it going? Will Dillon be able to go this week against Miami?

Take a knee - As soon as I saw the victory formation I thought the same thing about point differential. The Packers have the slimmest of margins to make the playoffs in the best case scenario. Why would MLF limit those margins even further? Maybe because he is a chooch!

You're blocked - great block by Watson end of story.

Splinters - They not only watched Jefferson catch a 3rd and 15 pass they also watched a Ram receiver catch the Rams only TD uncontested in the 3rd quarter.
Again, I've never seen a defense play like this.

Moving on... Thanks, Since '61

4 points
8
4
marpag1's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:29 am

"This erroneous concept that the QB is subversive if he changes the play or calls a different play is ludicrous."

I have to agree. There's a reason why people refer to QBs as "signal callers." They call plays - including audibles - and they often use signals. Go figure. And we all should WANT them to call plays/audibles and use signals.

As AR said, all the fuss is pretty much a big "nothing burger."

4 points
6
2
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:12 pm

Then what's the point of having an offensive minded head coach? Why not just hire a defensive minded head coach and let Rodgers control the offense? Lafleur can cheerlead for Rodgers all he wants, but watching Rodgers axe his plays repeatedly cant possibly sit well with him. This isnt a recipe for success in this league. Its hard enough to win when everyone IS on the same page.

-1 points
5
6
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:49 pm

RTS - Then maybe the HC should do whatever is necessary to get everyone on the same page. If any player is not on the same page they should sit. If Rodgers is not on the same page play Love. MLF had his chance to play Love while Rodgers had the thumb injury. It's not Rodgers fault that he wants to play. It's also not Rodger fault that he can read defenses as well as he does and changes plays to get the best matchups. That is part of the QBs job.
His record proves that Rodgers has been very good at his job during his career. HOF, 4 MVPs, highest ever passer rating, numerous All-Pros and Pro Bowls.

It's also not Rodgers fault that MLF is the HC. And just because MLF is the HC doesn't mean that he knows more about play calling or playing QB than Rodgers. It also doesn't mean that he even knows more about coaching. The fact that MLF was hired after only one interview and not sufficiently vetted is not Rodgers fault. In fact it is probable that Murphy hired him because of his inexperience. And it is also probable because MLF expected that having Rodgers as his QB would make the HC job much easier for him. Again, neither case is Rodgers fault.

Finally none of. us know if Rodgers is changing any of MLFs play calls. just about every play call has one or more audibles depending on the personnel package. It's extremely possible that Rodgers audibles into one of the plays called as part of the original play call. It never ceases to amaze me that even when the team wins people complain about Rodgers and blame him for everything and anything that goes wrong even in a winning effort. Makes no sense to me. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
4
4
Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:58 pm

I tend to agree that it’s not primarily on Rodgers. LaFleur is the guy paid to ease Rodgers past the obstacles he can’t surmount. He’s never shown any ability to make this team better than Rodgers. All people and QBs have blind spots and weaknesses. The point of a coach of a great one is to find ways to get their QB around them. LaFleur actually seems just to abet them not to ameliorate. LaFleur and Rodgers have proved to be a very bad pairing, and LaFleur is the one bringing nothing to the party. Unfortunately, the party is now over anyway, at least I’m GB.

1 points
2
1
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:25 pm

Pretty hard for Lafleur to massage Rodgers past the obsticles when Rodgers himself is the biggest obstacle. Lafleur already had to scrap the RPO play cuz Rodgers would just turn it into a 1 route pass play when everyone else is playing run play. See the debacle in detroit for further details on that.

0 points
4
4
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:36 pm

No, Rodgers was in shotgun with his paw hurting after the Europe trip. Rodgers couldn't take the hard snap from Center, so they ran more pistol/RPOs, but it really impeded the LaFleur play-action, motion scheme, Dillon is not flexible enough to cut off the vector from the handoff point and the opponents knew Rodgers would not run off tackle with the keeper. Now, with his thumb feeling better, the Pack is running P/A, people are getting healthy upfront, Doubs is back and the offense has begun to take off.

1 points
3
2
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:08 pm

Newsflash: Rodgers sucked this year well before the thumb injury. The only reason they were 3-1 was because they played 3 straight games against teams who were even more injured and/or dysfunctional than they were. I accurately predicted the giants and jets losses here on this board because the dysfunction was already there and the writing was on the wall. But nobody wanted to see it.

2 points
4
2
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:19 pm

RTS - OK so if Rodgers sucked and I will agree that he was not great during those early games why not replace him with Love? Better yet why wasn't Love sent in to play while Rodgers thumb was injured. I believe the Packers would have one or 2 more wins if MLF made the move. Again it's not Rodgers fault that the HC kept starting him when he was injured. Where was the Packers vaunted and overly conservative medical staff? Does MLF and/or Gutekunst know that an injured Rodgers give the Packers a better chance to win than a healthy Love? And if Rodgers is as subversive as you claim why wouldn't MLF or Gute or somebody use Rodger's injury as an excuse to sit him and play Love?

Beyond all of these questions which I know won't be answered, exactly what do you want or expect Rodgers to have done? Not holding my breath. Thank, Since '61

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:13 pm

Murphy is the only one other than LaFleur who has the authority sit Rodgers. LaFleur sitting Rodgers on his own initiative seems to be well beyond him. Murphy is the guy who brought Ridgers back at great cost in terms of cap and control, stating that he and his team weren’t idiots and saw Rodgers winning another MVP: Murphy was never likely to allow Rodgers to be replaced 4 or 5 games into the season.

2 points
3
1
croatpackfan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:39 pm

If that is truth, why he was not benched until become healthy?

We may pretend that we do not know the answer on my question. But we do. Because ACR was given certain authorities, he insisted to play.

You said that Dillon is not flexible enough to cut off the vector. I agree, he does not have neither the body nor ability to do that. It is not that he is not willing. He is not that kind of running back. But you have stubborn and arrogant QB who does not care about his teammates ability, just trying to pump up his HOF statistic and he insists to play, despite he is NOT ABLE to perform as professional should perform. Everything that is placed in front of him.

Wow, win over ACR at helm.

-2 points
1
3
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:50 pm

Croat - any player worth anything is always going to want to play. In fact I prefer to have guys who want to play or why have them on the team. This is where coaches and FO are supposed to step in and do their job. Between the medical staff and the coaching staff someone should have stepped up and told Rodgers to sit and allow his thumb to heal. Obviously no one did. It's not reasonable to blame Rodgers for wanting to play through his injury.

In fact, if Rodgers did sit out then many here would be criticizing Rodgers for sitting while he is being paid his current contract. Thanks, Since '61

-1 points
1
2
MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:47 pm

a·me·lio·rate

/əˈmēlyəˌrāt/
verb FORMAL

make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better.
"the reform did much to ameliorate living standards"

I have to admit CW, I had to look that one up : )

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:28 pm

Great post as usual Coldworld. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:01 pm

Hi since 61'. I appreciate yours and everyone's point of view (I might learn something in the process).

Question for you; is there anything #12 could have done or start doing to help the team win, build chemistry, get on the same page with teammates?

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:42 pm

I'm sure he will buy them all Christmas Gifts.

-1 points
0
1
LeotisHarris's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:04 pm

I heard Isotoner is offering free shipping.

2 points
2
0
pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:08 pm

hand warmers and eye exams for free? :D

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:08 pm

Pants - how do you know that he has not done the items you mention in your post? Thanks, Since '61

0 points
1
1
pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:24 pm

I don't since '61. Please share with me if he has...do you know? Plus, I am not concerned with items given as much as I am wondering what he has done (that I am not aware of) to help the team prepare for the season. Now, in season...what he is doing to help build chemistry and help the team win with the various talent levels of the players...

What would Ray Nitschke say about #12 as a leader?

1 points
2
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marpag1's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:07 pm

You need to understand that the coach on the sideline sends the play on to the field long before the defense has lined up. So when he chooses the play, he does not have the slightest clue how the defense will line up.

When the QB brings the team to the line and looks at the defense, he will often discover that the chosen play is actually a horrible choice because of the way the defense has lined up. So he needs to be able to get out of the bad play and to chose one that will work better. That's the whole point of audibles. Every single team does this on virtually every single play.

Oftentimes teams break the huddle with contingency plans already in place... "if we see this from the defense, then we do that, but if we see that from the defense, then we do the other thing." Again, standard operating procedure.

You hire the offensive minded coach so that during the week you can identify the best way of dealing with these contingencies when they inevitably happen during the game.

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:15 pm

I cannot find a conspiracy to counter your logic. That's right , boys and girls, Bart did it too...

1 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:21 pm

Bart called all of his own plays and he increasingly audibles his own calls as he became more experienced at reading defenses. In fact during 1966, the season which Bart won his only MVP, he audibled on about 90% of the plays. Bart took advantage of opposing defenses set up to defend against the Packers strong run game and audibles into passing plays and the result was his best season as the Packers starting QB, an MVP award and a win in the first ever SB! Lombardi just watched it all happen. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:51 pm

"You need to understand that the coach on the sideline sends the play on to the field long before the defense has lined up. So when he chooses the play, he does not have the slightest clue how the defense will line up."

I would not be so sure that play caller sends only one play for snap. I'm pretty sure that he sends combination of 2 or even 3 plays that suits the chosen players for the down. QB in the huddle tells 1st, 2nd & 3rd option and what will be the sign to change from option to option. And that change depends of the position of the opponent D.

ACR signals are more route specific and for 1 to 3 players (depends on original positions of the players before snaps) to change the type of route they are supposed to run by original play call.

It is not that hard to understand.

-2 points
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Packerpasty's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:33 am

its only an issue (QB calling a play) because so much hate for #12...Brady, Manning did, most all great QB's change and call plays at the line....cant wait for Rodgers to retire or move on so the haters can start with Love, on how it was such a wasted draft choice...all the "we want Love" guys will turn on him really quick, just watch...

1 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:39 am

Thanks P-Pasty for such an eloquent message. Your ability to fully grasp what others are thinking and to foretell the future is astonishing. I salute you, my brother!

1 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:18 pm

You dont get it. This isnt just blind hate for Rodgers. The guy is 39. His best years are behind him whether people want to accept it or not. Yeah sure he won MVP last year (which he didnt deserve) and then what happened in the playoffs? He looked like an 80 year old shivering and struggling to shovel his porch. The point is to win super bowls is it not? At some point, people need to accept that this team has gone as far as its ever going to go with Rodgers. Its a young man's game and Rodgers just isnt it anymore. The Rodgers Forever crowd needs to forget the love affair and get on board with the rest of us who only want whats best for this TEAM. No one player is above the G. Not even Rodgers. Are you a Packer fan or just a Rodgers fan? Cuz i care a hell of a lot more about this team and where its headed than I do about Rodgers. I thank him for the wonderul memories over the years but nothing lasts forever and it rarely ends on a positive. Its just the nature of this sport. The more this gets dragged out, the more likely his last game in GB ends with him leaving in an ambulance. Nobody wants to see that nor does he deserve that. Somebody has to save this team from him and also save him from himself. He has nothing left to prove.

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:07 pm

Where was the TE to move the short passing game along? Oh, yeah, Big Dog fumbled heading into the hot zone. No TE receiving threat, Gutey.

-1 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:03 pm

Packerpasty - Great Post! And exactly correct! It's always easier to blame one guy (the QB in this case). It simplifies the alleged understanding of the game without looking at the core issues of the play, the plan or the team. It's why Rodgers gets blamed for the defensive and the ST performances. All that's left is to blame him for the officiating and opposing fans in the stands. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:25 pm

I am speaking only my opinion in regards to, "It's always easier to blame one guy (the QB in this case). It simplifies the alleged understanding of the game".

It is only easier to blame one guy when that one guy is the source of my angst and frustration. I can't think of another player on the roster (def or st or off) that has said what he has said about the organization or threatened the organization to leave.

He can do what he wants and it isn't his fault (after a while) if no one holds him accountable. I am frustrated with the front office and a couple coaches. I agree, #12 isn't always to blame, but the blame he receives...he brought on the majority of it himself. With the $ he earned in his new contract, I was hoping he would be more of a team player (in season and off). I am concerned about his commitment I guess.

I appreciate your passion and admire your devotion to the Packers and #12. My devotion is to the Packers.

Thanks for reading...

3 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 04:44 pm

Pantz_Burp - I don't condone much of what Rodgers says or does off the field. I'm only concerned with what he does on the field. Yes, he has not been held accountable but who's accountable for holding or more accurately not holding Rodgers accountable?

The money that he received in his new contract only serves to validate his actions. If no one holds a person accountable and he continues to get huge contracts what message does that send to the person. Also, why increase expectations when he is already an HOF/4 time MVP player. How much better can any one player play?

My devotion is from 61 seasons as a long distance Packers fan. I'm not going anywhere. As for Rodgers devotion is too strong a word but yes, I have been a supporter of Rodgers over his career not for any of his off-field antics, bot for his ability to play his position as the Packers QB at least as well as if not better than any other QB that I have ever seen play the position. They don't come as often as they once did but he still makes throws that no one else can make. While this season has become an outlier he has been extraordinary at ball security and minimizing interceptions over his career. His decline is becoming more and more apparent but it's not up to him for the Packers to move on to Love or another QB. I enjoy your posts Pantz_ keep them coming.
Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:12 pm

Since, it is easier to blame 20 others pkayers from time to time. But when that player do not held himself accounable for his mistakes, neither care about his team mates nor for chemistry in the locker room, than in many flaws this team has he is guilty for at least 20%. That is how much of team cap space (salaries for other players) falls on him.

ACR was and never be the leader of the men. He just do not know how to be. Like Brett Favre. Brett has "Ministry of defense" as team leader and ACR had Charles Woodson. While those 2 were on the team both won one SB.

During the last play off loss, ACR made much more mistakes than D or ST. Let say D did not allowed TD. Just 2 field goals. ST allowed TD and missed FG. 2 mistakes. Are you willing to start to talk about many ACR mistakes in that game, with iceing on the cake at the last Packers possesion.

If he just did not made mistake and throw the ball to either wide open Lazard or ESB, game would be over and nobody would talk about ST TD.

So, stories about loss vs 49ers is on ST and D is not credible.

Thank you!

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:12 am

I think some of the issues are that good DCs (especially in the playoffs) have too good a book on Rodgers and some of the others too, and bait them with a look then go into a different D. It's still hard to totally fake these experienced guys out all the time.

We used to laugh at the quarterbacks whose coach shuffled players into the huddle with plays, then it became the norm with comms and the view coaches could get from upstairs and watching game film and replays in real time.

3 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:05 am

As always, you are spot on Since '61. It amazes me that what you posted got downvotes. Notice I didn't say it surprises me ; ) Anything resembling a defense of Rodgers here at CHTV is bound to draw the downvotes from those who see AR as the root of all evil.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:17 am

" This is an automatic first down and it has been happening this entire season"

The Packers have had 267 first downs against them this year, 9th best in the league. So obviously, somebody is doing something right, correct?

-3 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:40 pm

That is the exact type of analysis that prevents and/or disregards critical thinking at the time of the situation. Relying on those stats leaves the Packers will terrible results in situational football. Even against the Rams the defense surrendered numerous 3rd and long plays even while playing our DBs 10-12 yards off the LOS.

Douglas literally stood in the end zone and allowed a TD pass to be caught right in front of him uncontested.

How often do we see the offense score and the defense give up an easy TD on the opponent's next possession. Or how often do we see long time consuming drives which just eat up the clock or a stupid penalty which extends a drive that should have been ended. These problems have existed for years, season after season.

And no if the Packers are 6-8 it tells me that numerous people are not doing anything correct, which is another problem with just looking at stats in isolation and arriving at erroneous conclusions. Stats by themselves are nothing but data. But data by itself does not provide information. And good, reliable information is what is needed to make good decisions and take corrective actions. If I look just at the stat for 1st downs I could walk away like you and say "See the defense is great we don't need to change anything." Apparently the Packers coaches have taken the same approach as you have and when the defense gets run off the field allowing 368 yards rushing they look at the first down stat and say we're doing great no reason to correct anything. And here we are out of the playoffs and unable to stop the run or a well prepared, well coached offense. But we must doing something right, correct.

Yet here we are, blaming Rodgers for everything that goes wrong. Even though if anyone, played their position as well as Rodgers plays QB we'd be undefeated. But why? We have this first down stat which literally means absolutely nothing when the team 6-8 and staring at oblivion this season. The problem is that for the FO this is fine season after season. Thanks, Since '61

6 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:23 pm

That's what I like about how you analyze things Since '61, you base your analysis on facts not emotions.
You have been critical of AR when criticism is deserved, but you do not let whatever you may think of Aaron Rodgers the person, cloud your judgement of what you see on the field. That my friend is how it should be done. Kudos!!

0 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:28 pm

Oh, so as a fan, I can't let my emotions be part of the game and play a part in my opinions?

Okay, my bad....

1 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:38 pm

Pantz, you are free to fan how you wish. Where in my post does it say anything about you?

-1 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:47 pm

I am just saying, if you can't let your emotions be part of this great team sport, I would be moving on.

If I was part of the front office, I would have to put my emotions aside. Sorry Maine, I am going to call a timeout, on myself!

0 points
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1
MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:55 pm

Lol. Don't do that

0 points
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Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:13 pm

MainePackFan - I appreciate your kind remarks. 30 plus years of meeting with and presenting to major Corporate CEOs and BoDs has left me well trained to base analysis on facts. The people I worked with during my consulting career could not possibly care less about how I felt about anything. They want facts to support recommendations and then they want results. If my firm didn't deliver we didn't get paid. My business partner and I had too many people depending on us not to fail them.

I look at the Packers and Rodgers or any player the same way. Rodgers is a person and a player. As a person he has flaws just like the rest of us. I don't condone what little of his off field antics that we hear about but he hasn't committed any crimes that I am aware of either. So as far as Rodgers the person my philosophy is Live and Let Live and that's his business. As for Rodgers the player he is not the perfect player, no one is but over the course of his career he has strived for perfection from himself and his team mates. In his striving for perfection he has achieved excellence. Coach Lombardi would have loved him for that. As a fan I don't think that we can or should expect any more for any of our players.

Yes, he can appear harsh to his receivers because he expects them to be excellent as he expects himself to be. He shows that publicly, so who cares? For me that shows he cares about what is happening on the field. Speaking for myself I want that from my QB and all of the Packers players. We see far too much of a lack of urgency from this Packers team far too often. It's good to see someone trying to make our players perform better because it certainly doesn't appear that our coaches are doing anything to help them.

As fans, we need to take the good with the bad that comes with any player. We may not like everything they bring but they are people and as long as they aren't committing crimes off the field I say let them be.

Rodgers record on the field speaks for itself. He will remain in the discussions of all time great QBs, if not the greatest, for a long, long time to come. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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1
MainePackFan's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:55 pm

Since '61, I appreciate your commentary. It's rare that I disagree with you, and if I do, it gives me pause to reflect on my own opinion. It doesn't necessarily change my opinion, but your respectful and knowledgeable posts make me think.

Your assessment of AR is (in my humble opinion) is one that even he would agree with.

At the end of the day, open minds lead to honest debate, and that moves us all forward.

0 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:00 pm

Since 61, you are relieved of your consulting efforts. I appreciate your hard work and opinion but have to go in another direction. I feel you don't have the best interests of my G-corp in mind for long term success, which we communicated on our first meeting.

JK 61, keep on voicing your opinion...even though we see things differently, it is vital to get everyone's opinion to keep this board healthy....

You are still fired, but help yourself to some mints on your way out. :D

Oh, know any good PR firms?

GPG!

2 points
3
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MooPack's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:11 pm

Since 61', Would you say as a consultant for major corporations you went above and beyond your competitors to achieve your goals? You did what it takes, even beyond normal working hours?

2 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:27 pm

"if anyone, played their position as well as Rodgers plays QB we'd be undefeated"

Ahhh, #12's play this year? (we would be undefeated?)

2 points
3
1
Since'61's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:14 pm

Probably not undefeated this season but better than 6-8. The reality is that Rodgers should been out with his injury and Love should have played. I believe that we would have at least an additional one of two wins if MLF or Gute had the will to sit Rodgers and enable him to heal. But once again they failed to act for the best of the team.
Thanks, Since '61

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 22, 2022 at 11:47 am

Ouch. Merry Christmas to you, too. "The type of analysis that excludes critical thinking".

I'm going to disagree with you on this. There's plenty of critical thinking involved in this. You started off with these rhetorical questions

""How often do we see the offense score and the defense give up an easy TD on the opponent's next possession. Or how often do we see long time consuming drives which just eat up the clock or a stupid penalty which extends a drive that should have been ended."

Good questions. Perhaps you, or someone else, would like to go back over the season and count them, and then look at every other team in the league and count the number of times it happened to them. And then, I'm pretty sure, you'd see that the Packers are AVERAGE in that regard, too.

I'm not going to spend my time doing that, and I'm not going to say nobody ever makes a bad play, because it happens all the time on the Packers, and on other teams, too And sometimes, bad games. But over the course of the season, the Packer defense is AVERAGE , just like last year and the year before.

Then, this beauty.

""And here we are out of the playoffs ""

Yes, we essentially are. Because we scored 7 points against Minnesota and 9 against Detroit. Even a mediocre offensive performance could have won those games.

In this year, 2022, and going back to our playoff loss last year, we are a below average offensive team and an average defensive team. That's my analysis, and I apologize for the lack of critical thinking involved.

1 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

December 22, 2022 at 03:30 pm

Someone seems to think being AVERAGE is pretty ok.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 23, 2022 at 02:48 am

Ask Savage.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:25 pm

Preach it brother. The banality of some of the QB commentary is tiresome. “If the coaches sent someone in with a play, Johnny sent him off the field,” Curry said. “He would say, 'Don't send plays.

2 points
3
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pantz_bURp's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:30 pm

What is tiresome is no one holding #12 accountable. Now that is tiresome......

zzzzzZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:34 pm

The nature of fans is to be passionate. The impassioned often find cold logic in anything that they see supporting their desired paradigm. Nothing makes me laugh more than the least dispassionate posters praising the detached rationality of another post when it suits, even if the writers overall thrust may be a worse anathema in their eyes than the immediate issue.

2 points
2
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Leatherhead's picture

December 22, 2022 at 01:08 pm

Nobody here.

Pantz....ultimately, the scoreboard matters. We can bitch about Amari Rodgers, or special teams in general, or say some incredibly over the top things about our DC. We can call the defense "historically bad" (which people have done).

And the scoreboard, with 3 games remaining in this disappointing season, shows that we didn't score enough. Too many possessions without scores, and it made a difference in the season. I'm sure Murphy, Gutekunst, LaFleur are all sharp enough to see that.

And then you'll look why, and the first place you are going to look is at QB. How did he do? Then, I think you'll look to see how his protection was over the course of a season, and I think that he's getting at least average protection right now. Then you'd look at the guys who help him move the ball down the field, starting with the guy who touches it the most, Jones, and you'd conclude he had a pretty good season.

Then you'd look at the WRs, and you'd see that we have Watson, Doubs, and Toure all coming back next year. And we could use a TE, too, to go with Deguara.

So where do we improve? Another superduper WR? A younger, cheaper, better replacement for Jones?(good luck with that). Will a top TE rookie make us a top ten scoring team again? Can we keep Nijman and Jenkins or are those two starters we'll have to replace with somebody better?

IMO, we could probably trade down and get enough picks to get a TE, a RB, and two offensive linemen in the top 75 picks. That's how I'd improve the offense next year. And that's without considering the compensation that we would receive for trading Jones, Rodgers, and Bakhtiari.

#12 will be held accountable. We're not going to go into next season with a 40 year old QB when we've got Love ready to go, behind a strengthened line and with a bunch of young talent around him.

0 points
2
2
croatpackfan's picture

December 23, 2022 at 01:50 am

Leatherhead, you know I'm all in to move from ACR and start with Jordan Love at helm. But claiming Jordan Love ready to go is optimistic. I'm sure Packers evaluators knows if he is or not ready to go. All signs shows he is, but we, as fans have only few snaps from him to see in real game vs another team starters.

What I believe is that Jordan Love is the future QB of Packers, but I would like to see him in series of real games. And I'm sure that his win/lose ratio will not be immediately astonish. So, I have high hopes for Jordan, but keep my level of claims still quite low.

Also I saw enough from ACR to know that he can not win it all, at least not with Packers.

0 points
0
0
Lphill's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:51 am

I think many agree the best D line combo is Wyatt in the middle with Slayton and Clark, but why Barry plays 2 down lineman so often is puzzling , Mayfield wasn't going to turn into Joe Montana yet Barry seemed to be worried about his passing attack, as far as the Packers secondary shouldn't most of the blame be on Jerry Gray who is also listed as the passing game coordinator ?

0 points
2
2
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:21 am

" but why Barry plays 2 down lineman so often is puzzling "

These rabbit QBs, like Hurts and Fields and others, hurt you when they escape the pocket. So we're trying to keep them in the pocket, and we're using more agile defenders in case he makes a break for it.

I also don't get the bit about Mayfield. You do realize that we limited the Rams to less than 200 yards of offense? Mayfield got like 115 yards passing. So why are we "blaming" Jerry Gray for anything? I think the term you are looking for is "giving credit",

2 points
2
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 01:16 pm

That "contain" strategy worked to the tune of 157 yards on 17 carries for Hurts, last month.

3 points
4
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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:21 pm

Yes, and 50 of those were on one play. On the other plays, he was pretty well contained for such an elusive guy.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:23 pm

Yes, that would leave an average of 6.65 yards per carry on the other 16 runs.

3 points
4
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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:20 pm

If you think a QB is going to beat you with a bunch of short runs, you're not thinking of the NFL. Those long back-breakers...yeah, you have to contain those.

I went back and rechecked the game. Hurts had runs of 24, 42, and 17, which is 85 yards, which is more than half his total. The other 14 runs were contained.

How many yards do you think one of the greatest running QBs in the history of the game, during his best season, might be expected to get on any given night? 4? 31? 51?

0 points
1
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 23, 2022 at 03:02 am

Excluding Hurts dominating performance, the "containment" also let Sanders and company tack on an additional
206 yards from scrimmage. That would be classified as an Epic Fail by the Defense.. A very skewed bell curve.

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:33 pm

Its become apparent that Barry coaches from a position of fear rather than aggression. And i think Lafleur is lock step with him in this sorry ass philosophy. I remember earlier in the year when Lafleur was asked about not blitzing more and he brought up some play from 2019 where they blitzed and got burnt for a td deep. This whole organization is operating on fear now. Afraid to be aggressive, afraid to move on from expensive and over the hill veterans, just fear all around. This organization quite literally has no balls from top to bottom.

1 points
3
2
jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:37 pm

Wyatt has never been a Nose Tackle. He is an under guy, a three to five tech and played out on the six spot for the Bulldogs on occasion. You never tie a guy up like him or Clark. Slaton can do the job and Get Ford on the field if they thought he can go NT. Chris Slayton on the PS is quicker off the ball than Lowry. The Silage committee has put a mandate on playing guys they Paid.

4 points
4
0
BAMABADGER's picture

December 21, 2022 at 09:52 am

Joe Barry needs to go. I looked up his Wikipedia bio.... found this interesting. Be careful what you say about Joe Barry.

"At a press conference on December 21, 2008, following the Lions' 42–7 loss to the New Orleans Saints, Detroit News sports columnist Rob Parker addressed a question about Barry to Rod Marinelli, inquiring whether Marinelli wished that his daughter had "married a better defensive coordinator."[1] (Barry was the Lions' defensive coordinator at the time.) The question was criticized as unprofessional and inappropriate. The next day, Parker wrote that the comment was "an attempt at humor" and not a malicious attack.[2] Parker has not written for the Detroit News since, and has not attended any press conferences since the incident, including the one Marinelli gave following his dismissal as head coach of the Lions. On January 6, 2009, the Detroit News announced that Parker had resigned from the newspaper the previous week.[3] Following the firing of Marinelli, Barry was not retained by the Lions."

5 points
5
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Johnblood27's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:29 am

one of the greatest press conference questions of all time.

many great coach 'rants/smart ass comments' get blasted out on social media, but questions that lampoon the almighty NFL coaching fraternity usually get 'barry-ed'.

5 points
5
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jont's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:01 pm

Do you think it is perhaps just possible that Marinelli took this as a question about his daughter?

2 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:16 pm

Can she coach a D better than her husband?

-1 points
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1
Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 10:50 am

There are two offenses on the field, LaFleur's and what Rodgers wants to do. A House Divided, and all that stuff. There was a chance that without Adams, Rodgers might actually have to spread it around although it doesn't look like it, and so you have this inner conflict that has reduced our offense to a below average-to-bad offense after decades of pretty good offense.

Last year, and most years, we're one of the best teams in the league at protecting the ball. Last year, we were #1. This year, we have 19 turnovers and that puts us in the Bottom Ten. Big change. We have had an unthinkable 10 interceptions, along with Rodgers lowest QBrating as a starter. The injuries, the age, the salary....it all adds up. I'm pretty sure he's not our starter next year.

5 points
7
2
canadapacker's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:24 pm

If you want to be a debbie downer - that's ok. But none of the comments about the status of AR are totally correct - 1. injuries - not the serious types - 2.age - body age is less because he never played for his 3 first NFL seasons, 3 Salary - maybe but what will the team do to kick that down the road ??? Maybe a trade to a desperate team - ie Raiders - Indie - As far as the turnovers go - some passes were INT because AR tried to fit the balls in deep - some bad ones I agree - short pass in the red zone against the Lions but it would be expected when losing games that rather than take a sack pull a Favre and throw it up. It is easy to protect the ball when you have an Adams who can always get a step and always make the catch. Different with Lazard who doesnt get as much open.
Finally - he has shown that he still have tread on his body - much the same as Brady and definitely not like Wilson or Ryan - Will it be with the Pack - I am hoping to see Love play and start the process - but if AR stays and we will see in these final games before we are eliminated on how the team plays.
I am just hopeful that whatever happens in Miami that the defense plays up to a playoff standard and at least gives the offense some time playing unlike what has happened mostly this season.

-1 points
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barutanseijin's picture

December 21, 2022 at 02:59 pm

People made excuses for Favre, too. Nothing has changed.

As for his physical prowess, Rodgers has had some significant injuries, including a couple to his shoulder/collarbone. One more of those and he's done. It's one reason he is so reluctant to run with the ball these days. He's also slowed down to the point where it's difficult for him to escape defenders who now catch him from behind more often. Then there's the arm. The long balls aren't very well placed, probably because he now has to prioritize getting enough mustard on the ball over placement. It would help if he stepped more into his throws, but like late career Favre, he's a little contact shy and throws off his back foot more than he used to.

3 points
6
3
canadapacker's picture

December 21, 2022 at 06:19 pm

Brady doesnt run - AR has had a shoulder injury - and he has run this year and remember I own you run in Chicago last year - Escape out of the pocket and rolls out a little bit slower - his escapability this year is hard to measure with the bad Oline play. One doesnt expect nor do they plan for him to be as fast as before - but his pocket presence and movement is still ok as long as the Oline doesnt give up quick breakdowns. Now he still does hold the ball too long and did so for the past too many years. The arm thing is simply not true and some throws remember last year in Arizona and this year throws to Jones on the sideline. And a lot of it this year might be because of the thumb and not knowing where the new guys are going to be - but his first pass of the season was bang on. One other thing - he still throws the ball better than Goff, Cousins and Fields - so build around that and the run game. And the back foot thing - the announcers showed that and how accurate and on line each of those throws that they showed were. Stop picking pepper out of fs = I hope he is traded and we get to see Love but it is because we need to start anew - not because of AR but because it is time,

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 07:50 pm

"I am just hopeful that whatever happens in Miami that the defense plays up to a playoff standard "

By any measure, the Packer defense has done better this season than Miami. Does Miami's defense play up to a playoff standard? Kansas City? Minnesota?

How many points should we be able to hold them to, on their home turf?

17? Because 85% of winners in the NFL score more than 17. If you don't score more than 17, you haven't given yourself a very good chance to win.

21? Because that's near the league average? Or do you figure a good offense at least hits the average at home?

-1 points
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splitpea1's picture

December 21, 2022 at 11:26 am

Splinters: I don't know what the Packers are going to do with Savage, other than say that they "believe" in him. His only hope of rehabilitation is with a new defensive coaching staff and scheme; even then, how do you improve his tackling skills? I read that Ford is PFF's second-highest rated defender besides Gary, for what it's worth. Although he got flagged against the Rams for being a little overenthusiastic, at least he plays the way a defender should play; I'll take the tradeoff any day over Savage.

4 points
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wildbill's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:33 pm

As far as WRs crying about learning Rodger’s hand signals you got to be kidding me. They would have to change them all the time otherwise the defensive inside linebacker would be calling them out due to their game film prep.
As usual its lazy/dumb WRs crying about the amount of effort/ time that have to put in to be effective without just utilizing their athletic abilities. More time away from their video games I imagine…

-2 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 12:51 pm

The receivers didnt run to the journalist, the journalist came to them. Im guessing you didnt even read it but the article was trying to get to the bottom of why its been so much harder for rookie receivers to thrive in Green Bay when other teams rookie receivers hit the ground running. The signals controversy is part of it. Its honest journalism trying to find answers to an honest question that many of us here have asked before. If you cant handle that, thats your problem.

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:53 pm

I read the article in the NY Times. The players whining are no longer on the team for a reason. No loss, doubt they make the cut with another team next season.

-3 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

December 21, 2022 at 03:59 pm

For starters, the article was in The Athletic behind a paywall, not the NY Times, so Im guessing you didnt actually read it. 2nd of all, it wasnt just bitter former players who were interviewed. Love was interviewed in which he himself (after nearly 3 full seasons) said he has difficulty with the signals and he's the one who has to teach it to the receivers on saturdays. Cobb flat out admitted he barely played as a rookie thanks to the difficulty of those signals. You're clearly not informed of all the facts here. At what point does somebody with authority at 1265 say this isnt working and its time to find a better way?

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 23, 2022 at 03:14 am

NYT sports section. They apparently bought out the ATHLETIC. Look it up dude on their bookmark bar before you completely make an ass of yourself...

0 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

December 21, 2022 at 05:36 pm

"As usual its lazy/dumb WRs crying about the amount of effort/ time that have to put in to be effective without just utilizing their athletic abilities. More time away from their video games I imagine..."

Whoa, nice dog whistle there, littlebilly!

4 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 21, 2022 at 08:02 pm

Think more, play slower.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 22, 2022 at 12:22 pm