The Lass Word: No Experience Necessary?
In today's NFL, good QBs are good right away.
By KenLass
Last Sunday the Chicago Bears played an undrafted rookie quarterback making his first NFL start, a kid who played his college ball at somewhere called Shepherd College. Tyson Bagent was facing the same Las Vegas Raiders defense that had dominated Jordan Love two weeks earlier. Bagent calmly completed 21 of 29 passes with no interceptions and one touchdown, for a quarterback rating of 101.5, leading his team to an easy 20-6 win. His 72 percent completion rate would lead the league if he had played enough games.
The Houston Texans are starting rookie quarterback CJ Stroud. In leading his team to a 3-3 record, Stroud is completing just under 60 percent of his passes for 9 touchdowns with just one interception for a passer rating of 96.4, which ranks him in the top ten of the league.
The Atlanta Falcons are led by Desmond Ridder, a second year player who has started a total of eleven games, including all seven so far this season. Despite having been sacked 20 times, Ridder is completing over 65 percent of his passes for six touchdowns and a passer rating of 84.1, and the Falcons are off to a 4-3 start, leading the NFC South. Among the four wins was a 25-24 victory over the Packers in week two, which saw Ridder lead his team to 13 points in the fourth quarter to rally from a 24-12 deficit.
The Indianapolis Colts started rookie quarterback Anthony Richardson for the first four games of the season. The former Florida Gator responded by completing just under 60 percent of his throws for three touchdowns, while running for four more scores. He suffered a season ending injury in week four, but by that time he achieved a passer rating of 87.3, which would currently rank 18th in the league. His team’s record was 2-2 during his starts.
The Washington Commanders are starting second year man Sam Howell at quarterback. He has started a total of eight NFL games, including all seven this year. Howell is completing over 65 percent of his passes with nine touchdowns and a passer rating of 85.2. This despite being sacked a mind boggling 40 times, by far the most in the league. Washington is currently 3-4.
Other quarterbacks who have been in the NFL for a shorter amount of time than Jordan Love, but rank ahead of him in most statistical categories include Kenny Pickett, Brock Purdy, and Mac Jones. I don’t include them in this comparison because they either have started a significantly higher number of games, or they have a superior team around them.
But you can’t convince me that the Bears, Texans, Falcons, Colts and Commanders have a roster that is vastly superior to the Packers. Yet their young quarterbacks all rank ahead of Love in critical areas such as completion percentage and passer rating. All of them also exceed Love in the most important category, wins. The exception is Richardson who only got to make four starts, and yet still has the same number of wins as Love, even though the Packers have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
What’s the point? Well, for one thing, this seems to shoot down one of the oft-heard excuses for Love’s poor play, namely, his lack of experience. In today’s NFL it is routine for rookie signal callers to start immediately and put out at least respectable performances. Good quarterbacks are generally good right away, or at least show flashes of being so. They also tend to get better with each game, not worse. They may not win a lot of games, but you can readily observe their poise and confidence growing with each outing. One would be hard pressed to say that has been true of Love.
Bill Huber of si.com wrote a column this week which compared the stats of Aaron Rodgers’ first six games as a starter to Love’s. Rodgers had 13 more completions, 220 more passing yards, one more touchdown, three fewer interceptions and a passer rating over 18 points higher. He also had one more win. It should be pointed out that Rodgers’ 2008 offense was much more experienced and talented than this 2023 version, and some will say it is unfair to compare Love to a future Hall of Famer. But nobody knew in 2008 that Rodgers was going to be legendary. Even though the Packers would win just six games that season, Rodgers had flashed so much potential that general manager Ted Thompson signed him to a six year extension in November. Fair to say the same is not true thus far of Love.
So is it coaching? Love’s quarterback coach is Tom Clements, widely considered one of the best in the game, the same coach who developed Rodgers into a star. Is it injuries? Everybody’s got injuries. The Bears started against the Raiders without both of their starting tackles, their top two running backs, and their starting quarterback. Yet the raw kid who started under center against the Raiders beat them easily. Is it because of a terrible O-line? Ridder has been sacked 20 times. Howell 40 times. Those are bad O-lines, yet those quarterbacks are ahead of Love in most all categories. Does Love just have a bad team around Him? Maybe. But appreciably worse than the Bears, Texans, Falcons, Commanders and Colts?
Look, I am certainly not saying that Love is the cause of all of the Packers’ problems. However, it is becoming increasingly clear he is not the answer to any of them either. Jordan Love deserves an entire season before he is judged with any finality. But the excuses for his play to this point are wearing thin. Many of the other young quarterbacks in the league are making him look bad.
By all accounts, Love is a fine young man who works hard and is adored by his teammates. Nobody has been pulling harder for him to succeed than me. But with each game that goes by, the feeling that he is simply not good enough gets stronger. Absolutely nothing would make me happier than for the fourth year player to turn it around and light up the Vikings at Lambeau this Sunday.
It would be the most delicious crow I have ever eaten.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (57)
Coldworld
October 26, 2023 at 03:07 pm
Really? I am not sure that I can think of one carrying a team that wasn’t already good consistently.
A huge pit stir that you should be embarrassed to publish.
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 26, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Hey he makes some very good points. Look at what CHI did against the Raiders vs what GB did against the Raiders. How do you account for that, given CHI doesn't have a measurably better offensive line and has plenty of injuries of their own?
Coldworld
October 26, 2023 at 06:59 pm
The Raiders were starting Hoyer. They gave up 3 takeaways, including a pick 6, dual running threat. They gsve up less than 40 yards to the run, dominated possession. Vegas couldn’t do anything.
Bagent was not asked to do too much and did it decently, but their line was holding up better than ours had too. If our D played that well, we might have won too. If that’s all Love had to do, we might be better off as well.
Their coaches had a vastly better plan for their QB and the game. LaFleur could yet prove to be the worst head coach with the worst game planning/tactics in the division by season end. Certainly Butkus is well ahead of his peers now.
White92
October 26, 2023 at 09:07 pm
How Chicago largely contained Crosby and the Packers couldn't is baffling to me
SicSemperTyrannis
October 28, 2023 at 01:46 am
Footwork.
It's called football.
MLF isn't going to explain this to them because he believes scheme can fix anything.
Who's going to improve our O line's footwork? Look at Reggie White's footwork; find a flaw, and those are probably plays when he got beat.
stockholder
October 26, 2023 at 05:24 pm
No CW- your wrong again.
The truth is never an embarrassment.
Love is not the QB you want him to be.
This team must get back to winning.
Since'75
October 28, 2023 at 03:26 pm
Ok, listen......
Ken Lass is bold enough to tell you what he thinks, he's in the minority, as am i.
Love has one or two huge advantages over all those guys.
1) He's had 3 years to learn an offense
Love 'should' have a full understanding of the offense
2) Love got to watch and learn under a HOF'er for 3 years, and one of the most skilled to do it.
*************
So is it Love who is failing?
It damn well might be, we'll see how it plays out.
Right now, it's mostly Gute.
You don't put a first year starter out on the field, with a bunch of skill players who have little to no experience.
Even Rodgers couldn't do it last season trying to succeed with two raw rookie receivers.
Players play, Gute builds the roster.
Right now....this is on Gute.
Everyone at 1265 knew the offense would struggle because of the inexperience...including Murphy, as he has said as much.
Forget half a season, you give Love the whole season, and if we see improvement at the end, maybe next season.
Under the current circumstance that Gute created, Love is owed that much.
In my own opinion, this team has been a trainwreck since 2018, despite the 13-3 records.
Gute and Murphy gave up on the 13-3 team in 2020 and tried building for the future. Creating dissension and drama in the process.
Well, the future is here.
This is what most of us are complaining about, and.....it isn't Rodgers fault.
BROKEN
Since'75
October 28, 2023 at 03:51 pm
Mr. Lass wrote a legit article.
He wrote what he see's, but he also wrote the other side.
I don't understand why some can't understand it.
Just put down the kool aid, think, and re-read it.
Good article Ken, rock on!!
barutanseijin
October 26, 2023 at 03:16 pm
Nice clickbait trollery.
dblbogey
October 26, 2023 at 03:42 pm
If nothing else, Love is simply too inaccurate. If they haven't been able to teach him to throw better after 3 years of working with him, I don't think it's going to happen. His arm strength appears very average as well.
MilkCan44
October 26, 2023 at 03:48 pm
Quarterbacks can develop with experience, witness Jared Goff, Alex Smith, Phil Simms, Rich Gannon, a few others. But they seldom have that magic where you fear leaving 2 minutes on the clock at the end of a game.
Coldworld
October 26, 2023 at 07:00 pm
You mean like Rodgers? The guy who couldn’t win from
behind. Just ask Stockholder, that was a theme if his for years.
LeotisHarris
October 26, 2023 at 03:58 pm
You may live down the content of this piece, Ken, but you'll never get the stink of the apostrophe in "QB's" off of your fingertips.
JT O'Sullivan's Week 7 QB School review of Love is up on YouTube. He hasn't given up on Jordan, and I haven't either.
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 26, 2023 at 04:30 pm
Ken hasn't given up on Jordan Love either. He's just pointed out other young QBs with less experience with crappy rosters who are having more success than Love is right now.
Minniman
October 27, 2023 at 01:38 pm
Noted, WCPB, but he's also working with rookie and yr2 receivers, and we don't know how their routes are affecting the plays too ........... but we used to, with ol' "death stare" Rodgers.
The QB School YouTuber guy does great breakdowns each week of a number of players, and it's a good watch. Along with Dusty's pieces here, it's at least something of a lens into what should be happening. Either way, that dude often calls out where the receiver hasn't run a great route and allows a defender to stay available to make a play (when a savvy vet will have led them away from the intended play action more).
Minniman
October 27, 2023 at 06:35 pm
As an addit to my post, the 2008 Packers "skilled position" starters were:
WR:
Donald Driver
Greg Jennings
James Jones
Jordy Nelson (young)
RB: Ryan Grant
FB: KUUUUUUHHHNNN
TE: Jermichael Finley (young)
Rodgers was protected by the following line:
LT Chad Clifton
LG Daryn Colledge
C Scott Wells
RG Jason Spitz
RT Mark Tauscher
...........Give me a break Ken!
The 2023 Packers O are nowhere near this caliber. Don't try and compare Rodgers start to Love's.
......... which isn't saying that Love may not be a bust, he's just not on as good as team as Rodgers started with.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
October 29, 2023 at 06:41 am
I will second that Leotis!
splitpea1
October 26, 2023 at 04:09 pm
Trevor Lawrence, 2021 Jacksonville Jaguars. The offense showed virtually no improvement all season long. Then they hired a real coach with a Super Bowl on his resume, drafted a good WR, signed a solid TE in free agency, and Etienne got healthy.
The other teams mentioned either have proven WRs or TEs that can help the quarterback's performance. And while I have not watched every game these teams have played, it's almost a certainty that they've come up with a better offensive game plan than we've seen the past two weeks. Jones has been out much of the time and we have a tough time running anyway, so that just compounds the problem.
Even though Love's play has been iffy at times, everyone should be prepared to sit on the fence a while longer despite getting a sore crotch. I just hope this offense isn't spinning its wheels into next season.
jont
October 27, 2023 at 01:28 pm
I love your observation about Trevor Lawrence. It's a good counter-factual to Ken's pattern. And I really hope you're right about Love.
That said, there is a clear quality difference between Love and Lawrence. Lawrence has a world class arm-- truly Rodgers-like-- and this makes a difference. Of course, an arm is only one thing that makes a QB; Steve Young never had a great arm, and he's in the Hall.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 28, 2023 at 01:53 am
What we all knew after the draft is the O line has to dominate, the running game has to be legit, and only then will JL10 have any chance to succeed.
That has not happened. Trying to evaluate him in this environment is a fool's errand.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
October 29, 2023 at 10:44 am
Bravo...but there are those who still will want to!
BruceC1960
October 26, 2023 at 04:31 pm
Hard for me to believe this isn’t a tank job. Rookie QB, one WR that played any significant minutes (Doubs), rookie TE’s, Below average O-line (agreed no one 69 wouldn’t play at all). The problem is, after the starting 5, we are afraid to play anyone else on the 53, Rhyan, Niman, Newman or Caleb Jones. How do you get in this position. Who are we grooming to help on the O-line in the future?
I don’t think we’re tanking for Caleb Williams or Blake Maye. I do think if we had a top pick we could trade it for a nice return. Many want Caleb Williams. I think Love could play better in the next 11 games and we could still lose most of them. Too much invested in Love not to give him a chance with a decent supporting cast.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 28, 2023 at 01:56 am
Sure looks like a tank job, there's no better explanation for the vast amount of obvious fixes not being made. And yet, somehow, I don't believe anybody's deliberately tanking the team.
With Mr. We Are Not Idiots still at the helm, deliberately tanking seems unnecessary.
Lphill
October 26, 2023 at 04:33 pm
No , they have superior coaching staffs.
GaryC
October 26, 2023 at 05:35 pm
Correct. Even the Bears managed to have a plan to contain Max Crosby which seemed beyond LaFleur.
SweetPotatoGB
October 26, 2023 at 04:43 pm
Love isn’t doing well. Love has issues. Get over it. But, let’s not forget…Aaron Rodgers couldn’t even push this team into a wild card spot last year. The Packers are a disaster that not even a 4 time MVP could fix. Go back and watch last season’s five game losing streak. This is a team in free fall, and now every single veteran is gone except the running backs, one of whom barely plays. Love needs to play better, some of his bad habits have trickled back in in recent weeks; but, I can think of only two QBs that don’t transform into bad versions of themselves when everything around them is a dumpster fire. One of those QBs is retired, and the other is playing in Kansas City. Jared Goff just said that you gotta give a QB three years. Interesting to hear coming from a guy that’s been written off more than once. The Packers think long term, and we all are going to have to just push forward with the team during this tough time. Jared Goff didn’t have instant success, and he’s got a Super Bowl. Matt Stafford, Brett Favre, Jalen Hurts all looked rough…and what do you do when the guy who looked great at first starts losing? Probably the WORST take on this website I’ve ever read. If Jordan Love ends up not working out, it will have cost the Packers nothing because they haven’t committed to him long term. Pretty pathetic job here.
stockholder
October 26, 2023 at 05:31 pm
Rodgers wasn't a deer in headlights.
He couldn't play ILB with 5 min. to go.
And he did know how to hit the Wr down field.
LeotisHarris
October 26, 2023 at 05:41 pm
"And he did know how to hit the Wr down field."
Indeed he did. He just didn't do it much last season, but that didn't stop him from trying to squeeze the ball into an impossible window on a 35 yard sideline go route on 3rd down and 2.
stockholder
October 26, 2023 at 06:08 pm
Thumb was the issue-
I'm sure Rodgers figured he was done as packer.
Cobb and he did walk off the field together.
So you just throw it regardless-
Coldworld
October 26, 2023 at 07:04 pm
Sure, even before it was injured.
SweetPotatoGB
October 26, 2023 at 05:47 pm
If Green Bay needs better than Rodgers at QB in order to squeeze in to a wild card spot, then they are obviously in trouble.
BruceC1960
October 26, 2023 at 07:04 pm
If you didn’t see Rodgers with deer in the headlights last year, you watched different games than I did.
Qoojo
October 26, 2023 at 04:55 pm
But are they immediately good in MLF's offense with quite possibly the youngest WR corp ever and fairly weak OL?
Coldworld
October 26, 2023 at 07:06 pm
Fairly weak? This OL has made stars of opponents already.
Qoojo
October 26, 2023 at 07:15 pm
I admit that it was generous
Packerpasty
October 26, 2023 at 05:35 pm
can we please stop talking about AR...
HarryHodag
October 26, 2023 at 05:35 pm
I basically threw Love under bus in a couple recent posts. He will have to improve much to change my assessment. But I'm just as concerned about the entire offensive approach. For some reason Stenavich and MLF keep trying idiotic deep passes, something that isn't Love's strength. A short passing game putting pressure on the edges seems much more doable than trying the down the field throws. With a leaky offensive line the measure should be on patient short passes and basic runs. Also missing have been the sweeps, etc. seen early in MLF's tenure. The zone read running game has been limited.
The team now has a kicker with a rocket for a leg. Far better to try to get the ball into field goal range than the approach that has been done. The defense hasn't been that bad. The Lions are the only team to beat them with more than 30 points. I can live with limited offense if they can score 20+ points. But the current offensive approach simply stinks and MLF seems to simply do the same thing again hoping for different results.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 28, 2023 at 02:05 am
Harry,
"For some reason Stenavich and MLF keep trying idiotic deep passes, something that isn't Love's strength. A short passing game putting pressure on the edges seems much more doable than trying the down the field throws. With a leaky offensive line the measure should be on patient short passes and basic runs. "
I said this after the draft. I said this all off season. I said this at TC.
If even I know more than MLF, he should not be a HC in the NFL.
"MLF seems to simply do the same thing again hoping for different results."
Throughout his career, at least in GB. When it works, that's great. Even his few losses in his first 3 seasons here, that's how he coached.
Packers0808
October 26, 2023 at 05:56 pm
Love is and always be average or below and always back up caliber. He will always carry a clipboard!
ricky
October 26, 2023 at 08:55 pm
Yep. And Rashan Gary was a bust in his first year. It's time to find Love's strengths, get some WR's who can catch the ball if it hits their hands, and run good routes. Instead, we have under-coached players, and game plans run by guys who seem to have no rhyme nor rhythm for the offense. If you want to pick on somebody, how about Christian Watson? Because he is fast earning that label of "very good, when healthy."
pantz_bURp
October 26, 2023 at 09:02 pm
Pack0808, you must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...😁
Packers0808
October 26, 2023 at 09:29 pm
Nope I watched the Packers and Love for 6 games.
pantz_bURp
October 26, 2023 at 09:56 pm
I listen to them on the radio...eases the sting abit. Hang in there Pack 0808.
Better times ahead!
LLCHESTY
October 28, 2023 at 08:27 am
Not always. Age catches up to us all. Eventually they will take the clipboard away and tell him to go home.
egbertsouse
October 26, 2023 at 05:58 pm
This guy is on his 4th season, he should be playing as good as the QB from Potato Valley A&M or wherever that Bear is from. Time to take off the diaper and put on the big boy pants. If the guy doesn’t show anything in the next few games, bench him and get someone else. This is the NFL, you only get a couple years to get’em good or get ‘em gone.
NickPerry
October 26, 2023 at 07:00 pm
The funny thing is a high percentage of those teams Ken just mentioned are coached by a defensive minded HC. What more does that say about the job Matt LaFleur has done?
I think Matt took what worked, Rodgers made it better with Adams, and now without either of them he just seems out of answers or really even an idea. What's really concerning is everybody else, and I do mean EVERYBODY else doesn't seem to be making any improvements either. Nope, it's just a backwards shitshow since the 4th quarter in Atlanta for the most part.
I still have a sliver of hope and want more than anything for these guys to begin to function. But I also know this CAN NOT bleed into next year.
Grandfathered
October 27, 2023 at 11:21 pm
Some guys are showing improvement - Ford, McDuffie, and Walker have improved. Douglas is playing better than last year. Carlson has improved from pre season. Wicks is getting in the mix. Is Eric Wilson now our top ST guy? Haven't heard Orzech's name in a game yet- thats good. I hope recent troubles don't carry over to 2024,
SicSemperTyrannis
October 28, 2023 at 02:09 am
Current troubles getting fixed next year will not happen with this current coaching staff. And Joe Barry seems to not even be the biggest problem.
TxFred
October 26, 2023 at 07:50 pm
What's with the Pack's draft & develop style?
This staff. starting with MLF can not or will not coach this young coachable team. Some players have All Pro raw skillets. Totally undeveloped.
No hint of weekly improvement individually or team
Waste of time & talent.
pantz_bURp
October 26, 2023 at 07:52 pm
I think I'm going to go as a thief for Halloween. I will buy any Vikings jersey at the local thrift store I can find and carry a replica Lombardi trophy with me.
I'll see if Sweet Pea wants to join me and dress her up as a Lambeau security guard chasing me down at the local watering hole. White Russians with Dr Pepper on the rocks..she will never catch me.!
Yep, that'll do...
BOO!,
Sassy Pants
canadapacker
October 26, 2023 at 08:02 pm
This is not about Love - This is not about Love. Get it?? Love has been shackled this year by Lafleur. Yes he has missed some passes. Yes he has underthrown many balls especially when the heat is on to come up with the big play. But remember he was overthrowing many balls before and missing open guys. So they have ingrained in him to make the play and err on the underthrow mental process. But this whole offensive system in NOT working to the strengths of the team speed. No motion, no creativity with moving Love around and using his legs. There is Watson ( now) Doubs, Heath, Toure , Reed, Wicks - all have speed . getting them moving around and move the pocket etc - will limit the time that the OLINE needs to hold up . Lafleur was supposed to be an offensive genius and he isnt - and this isnt on Clements. It has little to do with Love's mechanics. The whole game planning is static and standard and makes the other teams advance scouting an easy job.
NickPerry
October 27, 2023 at 06:02 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just YES!!!!
Packerpasty
October 27, 2023 at 06:24 pm
if Andy R...over in KC Chief land, had this group of WR's and Love I wonder what it would look like....
canadapacker
October 27, 2023 at 08:06 pm
Probably pretty good - remember the devastating move of letting Tyrek Hill heading to Miami - didnt miss a beat
jlc1
October 26, 2023 at 08:06 pm
Ummm, statistics has regression to the mean and all kinds of caveats about small sample size. Might be relevant to some of the QBs here.
Dragon5
October 27, 2023 at 02:52 pm
Suggestion: RUN JORDAN RUN!!!
Grandfathered
October 27, 2023 at 11:31 pm
I don't know the stats, but for every rookie QB who has early success there are many more who crash & burn. Development takes longer for some.