Love the confidence.

Judging QBs based on championships won is a myopic approach to judging a QBs career.

Championships are a team achievement. A great QB who plays with a weak defensive unit is not going to win many championships. A great QB who plays behind a weak OL will probably not win many championships and will likely have his career shortened.

Great QB play is critical to the success of his team but it is not the only factor. What if a QB throws perfect passes and his receivers drop them?

QBs like Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino and Dan Fouts are just a few of many examples of great QBs who never won a championship.

Dan Marino is IMO a top 5 all-time QB and he never won a championship. But if you watched him play you know how great he was at his position.

Rodgers legacy will be and should be that he changed how the QB position is played in the NFL. He is the first QB I have ever seen who can make any throw from anywhere on the field from in the pocket or on the run. He is deadly accurate from the pocket or on the run.

If you base greatness solely on championships won then how many are required to be considered a great QB. Johnny Unitas won 3 championships in his career but his legacy is that he single handedly brought the NFL into the modern era. Unitas is to the NFL what Babe Ruth is to MLB.

Joe Montana won 4 SBs. Is that enough? John Elway won 2, do we toss him out of the conversation? And then there is Peyton Manning. He needs to be part of the greatest discussion.

To me, I look for consistency over the course of the player’s career. Wins/losses and TDs/Ints are the top
4 stats for me for a QB. Good decision making is another factor. Did the QB hurt or help his team? How well did he read defenses? These are areas where the QB has control.

A QB cannot control his defense if they allow 35 or more PPG. A QB cannot overcome pathetic ST play. QBs cannot overcome bad officiating or poor coaching decisions. These are outside of his control.

My top 5 all-time QBs:
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rodgers

Next 5, not necessarily in order:
Tom Brady
John Elway
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young

I've been fortunate to see them all play. Thanks, Since '61

Eli Manning won two SB's. So did Jim Plunkett and Bob Griese. Does that make them a better QB than Rodgers? Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien,
Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler and Doug Williams each won a SB. Are these all equal to Rodgers? Seriously, let's consider the entire resume of the player before talking about their being in the HOF, much less the GOAT. Because when you do that, you end up just where we are now: Brady. Though Rodgers has one of the greatest skill sets in football history.

“Life is not fair”

—-|———————Mom and Dad

I agree with Bart Starr, and I heard him say that “the quarterback position is first and foremost a leadership position “. All those HOFers have gone on record as saying Bart was the leader. He led. And he won.

Anytime that a group of men is going to work together to do something difficult, it’s the leader that makes it happen or not..

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In the great banquet hall, every QB who has ever played assembled. Seated in the back is Kurt Benkert, but as you move to the front you see the careers have improved. Finally, at the front, you see the cream of the crop. At one table, you see the statistical giants without a title, like Marino.
At another, you see all the guys who’ve won a title and an MVP.

Then at the front table are the Multis. Guys who’ve won multiple titles and multiple MVPs/ Super Bowl MVPs.
Bart. Brady. Montana.

You tell me where Rodgers belongs.

The shallow mentality that judges quarterbacks by championships is the same that thinks pro football began with the Super Bowls. The former ignores the reality that it's a team game and that QBs like Trent Dilfer have more postseason hardware than Dan Marino. The latter ignores the fact that the game was played for almost a half century before the first Super Bowl and that many legendary Hall of Fame players competed before that game.

I've been a Packer fan AND a fan of pro football since I watched the Packers with my grandfather in 1961 on a crappy black and white TV with rabbit ear antennas. I've seen a lot of great QB talent... Unitas, Starr, Jurgenson, Tarkenton, Staubach, Namath, Dawson, Stabler, Kelly, Bradshaw, Montana, Marino, Young, Aikman, Favre, Elway, Warner, Manning... and all the modern guys. (I'm sure I've left several out!)

IMHO, and I'm really trying to filter out my Packer bias, Rodgers is the best of them all. He can make any throw from any position. I can't count the number of "wow" throws I've seen by him, including four (effing FOUR) Hail Marys.

Sadly, Rodgers is not the most decorated quarterback in NFL history, but he is the most talented.

Keke claimed by Texans

If you want a place at the head table then you have to win what gets you there, and in the NFL it's Super Bowls.

Those who have an issue with this simple and easily accepted point are those who confuse talent with winning or being ''THE WINNER'. Brady is the GOAT based on SB victories, and though he owns individual records they are of little meaning as his playing years offset any real comparison to the previous record holder. Simply put, a WR who breaks a record playing 17 games than the 16 previously is just paper bs. Brady got his team to win the title 7 times in 10 trips. Rodgers, with the help of McCarthy, took turns being the reason for the lack of SB appearances, never mind wins. Rodgers could and possibly should be deemed the most talented QB over the last 15-20 years, maybe longer as that is a personal viewpoint, but even that distinction will pass as like every stat record in time. Until or unless Rodgers somehow wins another 4-5 SBs, he'll never have a place at the head table, and rightfully so. If Brady wins another, Montana, Bradshaw won't be allowed at the Brady table either because having twice as many will make that mandatory.

Judging Rodgers by Championships is not only fair it's damn fair.

I prefer to judge a QB based on clutch performances in the playoffs. Can't win everytime but don't go down without a fight. Winning a SB requires clutches performances by the entire team and sometimes some luck.

I don't expect Rodgers to win multiple SBs but I do expect him to play at the same level of talent he shows throughout the year.

Last time I checked Football is a team game: Now, had Rodgers played in 5 Super Bowls and won only one then the criticism would be valid! Rodgers is absolurley the most talented passer I have ever seen but football is a skill as well and he is probably the most skillful QB I have ever seen.

Starr, Montana and Brady benefited from great defenses; for all the hoopla about Manning he would be Dan Marino had he not went to Denver! He certainly didn't beat the Bears or the Panthers with his skillfull passing!

In a word of woulda, coulda shoulda and trying to compare eras just can't be done. I am old enough to have seen every QB play since 1958- eras are different and rules are different but I didn't see a single mention of YA Tittle who had the misfortune to attempt to win a title against the great Lombardi teams and then against one of the all time great defenses in the 63 Bears!

I have the greatest respect for John Unitas but remember he choked in the 64 Title game, and in 67 against the Rams so I guess the point I would like to make is it is more than the QB1

Football is the ultimate team sport and it's totally unfair to not take that into consideration.

Football is the antithesis of sports like tennis, golf, and boxing where winning and losing is a direct reflection on the individual.

I judge a QB by his looks and Rodgers recent attempt at cool; knit cap over his ears, scraggly beard, and man bun take him out of the running as the greatest "looking' QB of all time. Garappolo had my wife swooning the last time we played SF. If you judge by looks, and why shouldn't we?... then I think we're in trouble on Saturday.

“Always remember, if you ain’t first, you’re last.” -Ricky Bobby

With the long list of truly excellent QBs this question is always a fun one with a pitcher and a pile of wings.

How about this?

Greatest as in most successful: Tom Brady
Greatest as in most skilled: Aaron Rodgers
Greatest as in most admired: Bart Starr

Maybe there should be a prize for being a great QB but never winning a SB. Warren Moon gets my vote.

Rodgers can't do it all by himself. You can't judge AR on championships without also judging the GM on the team he built around Rodgers. Ted Thompson's frequently timid approach all too often failed to give Rodgers the surrounding cast that any other GM would have provided to a once in a generation talent. Thompson gets credit for drafting Rodgers to begin with but he also deserves blame for failing to maximize the asset that literally fell into his lap with the 24th pick in 2005.

And what happens with the Rodgers situation this off season will go a long way toward determining how Gute will go down in history, too.

Starr (my all-time favorite), once said that stats are only important if they are a by-product of winning.
It's very difficult imo to not measure a QB by championships, but as many have said on this thread, it's absurd to do so when there are so many moving parts that dictate who wins or loses.
If it's merely championships that matter, then we have no choice but to list, Brady; Starr; Otto Graham; Montana; Bradshaw; Aikman; and a few others.
If it's a question of QB talent, then I cannot accept any other answer than: ARod is the most talented QB --- EVER!!!

Leadership is a talent, too.
Like other talents, some people are born with more of it than others, yet it's also something that needs to be developed with discipline.
***
Passing highlights are overrated as far as championships.
Indeed, there's so much more to the craftsmanship of quarterback than passing.
Yes, the NFL has changed a lot over the years; but in every era, there are certain keys that are constants to winning, including leadership.
Yes, football is a team game, but the quarterback is a huge part of getting the most out of his teammates with leadership.
Yes, the passing game is important, but it seems in all eras the pass-happy teams don't usually win championships.
Fancy passing seems in general to be a passing fancy.
It also seems that the quarterbacks with the most titles -- including Joe Montana and Tom Brady -- aren't the ones who are the most talented passers. Don Shula had more team success with Bob Griese and Earl Morrall than Dan Marino and Johnny Unitas.
The greatest of all the quarterback in NFL history is Bart Starr.
***
Whatever has happened with Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs in the past, both good and bad, I hope he takes all of that accumulated experience and uses it to help the Packers to get over the top this season.
Rodgers can't change the past, but a second Super Bowl ring would indeed be much better for his legacy than one.
I'm rooting for him to come through for the team and himself.
Whatever it takes to win, no matter how unspectacular.

What utter nonsense! This is a straw man argument. Who says that Aaron Rodgers does not deserved to be ranked as one of the GOATs (following the writer's use of that term in the plural sense)? I listen to most of the NFL talking heads panel shows and the commentators, with virtual UNANIMITY, consider AR12 as one of the top QBs of all time. Usually he rates below Brady but is certainly regarded as being on a par or better than Joe Mantana, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and John Elway. But the discussion becomes confused over the distinction about what constitutes "greatness" which is what Mr. Lass has failed to address properly. From a pure talent level as a passer, Rodgers is generally thought of as being the greatest pure thrower along with Marino. (Obviously Peyton Manning will never quality in that regard...). But if the analysis shifts to assessing "greatness" from the perspective of team leadership, game management, tactical brilliance, won-lost records with their teams, and of course Super Bowl championships, then there is no doubt that Tom Brady deserves to be given the GOAT (singular) title. And his performance this season and last solidifies that status. After Brady, I don't know of any mainstream and respected NFL commentator who does not put AR12 in the top three and certainly in the top five all time greatest list. So this discussion is pleasant click-bait although at least Bart Starr receives his due recognition and he certainly makes my all-time top five list although I have only him play via YouTube in the Ice Bowl game and via grainy highlight packages contained in the This Week in Pro Football show that ran in the 60s and 70s with Pat Summerall and Tom Brookshier (and Charlie Jones previously). Starr was a masterful field general and an accurate passer very much in the Brady mold. And if we were to apply the Super Bowl (and NFL championship titles) measuring stick then Bart Starr absolutely ranks alongside Brady. Whatever use is to be gained from GOAT discussions, no one should be laboring under the misconception that Aaron Rodgers is NOT regarded as one of top three QBs of all time from every anecdotal discussion I've watched over the last two years. Finally, one may have to apply some sort of QBR coefficient to the ranking process that also includes relative team strength, winning record, and championships in the equation. Otherwise Dan Marino would fall outside the top five and even the top ten if playoff wins and championships (conference or SBs) are the primary criteria. And anyone who ever watched Marino play will appreciate his brilliance as a pure passer. Unfortunately for many years he lacked elite receivers (after his smurfs were gone) and a top defense. Had the Packers fielded top-ranked defenses the way the Patriots did under Bellicheat, I am convinced that Rodgers would have won at least one and possibly two more Super Bowl titles. But of course this is all a matter of idle speculation. Should the Packers win the SB this year, then it becomes much more comfortable for even the most intellectually deficient commentators (i.e. Chris Simms, Bill Cowher, Terry Bradshaw, Skip Bayless, et al.) to included AR12 in the GOAT discussion although even then it is hard to see anyone choosing Rodgers over Brady because his winning record in playoff games and 7 Super Bowl titles cannot be matched or even approached by anyone except for Bart Starr! God Bless No. 15!

The greatness of a QBs should not be judged by rings, because winning SBs is truly a team achievement.

That being said, you can be the most talented QB in the world, and if your play in clutch games at clutch moments isn't enough to get you through the playoffs to the SB, that has to weigh in the evaluation.

Rodgers is easily the most talented passer I've ever seen. I know he's lauded for his football IQ at the LOS, but I personally think he often suffers from "smartest guy in the room" syndrome and tinkers with calls at the LOS to the point he often tinkers himself out of favorable down and distance or first downs. The great majority of his career, his leadership was a topic that wasn't brought up because it wasn't a strength.

Lastly, he does hold some culpability in a number of the playoff losses over the years- games where he didn't get it done in key moments.

He's still in the upper echelon of QBs all time just based on pure arm talent.

It’s a shame all these years the Packers wouldn’t bring in free agents to help Rodgers or shore up the defense , draft and develop is for teams that’s are building for the future not a team with the best QB in the league in place.

13-23, 141 yards, 1 int - manning vs the panthers super bowl 50

Manning achievement or Von Millers?

I can't get the image of Rodgers not running on 3rd down in the NFCCG, he had a clear path to the end zone. He's done it many times before including the week before against the Rams. The whole off season was why did the Packers kick the FG? This was an Elway moment, try to score and at any cost.

From Bleacher Report-
Aaron Aaron Rodgers playoff losses:
Defense gave up 45
Defense gave up 37
Defense gave up 45
Led game-tying drive, never got the ball back
Led game-tying drive, never got the ball back
Led game-tying drive, never got the ball back
Defense gave up 44
Defense gave up 37
Defense gave up 31

The idea that the question is even asked means that people recognize his greatness, causing some to believe he should have more championships.