Packers Snap Counts: Week 14 vs. Detroit

The Packers elevated CB Kalen King from the Practice Squad.  Jaire Alexander, Edgerrin Cooper, Corey Ballentine, and Romeo Doubs were inactive due to injury.  Jacob Monk was a healthy scratch.  QB Malik Willis and Kalen King did not play.

 

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN:

Player Snaps % ST
Walker 50 100 5/18%
Tom 50 100 5/185%
Jenkins 50 100 5/18%
Myers 50 100 1/4%
Rhyan 42 84 4/14%
Telfort 8 16 5/18%
Glover     5/18%
Dillard     5/18%

 

The offensive line met their match against the Lions, which is even more disappointing as a lot of Detroit's preferred defensive linemen did not play. DT Alim MdNeill only played 17 snaps, while Aidan Hutchinson, DJ Reader, Josh Paschal, and others were inactive.   Although Love was hit 7 times and sacked just once, he was frequently pressured.  He never looked comfortable and rarely had time to allow receivers to run routes that take time.  The run blocking was inadequate.  Most of the runs consisted of a lot of very hard running through modest holes.    Tom and Walker gave up multiple pressures.  With Jacob Monk inactive, OT Kadeem Telfort played right guard when Rhyan briefly left the game with an injury.     

 

RUNNING BACKS:

Players Snaps % STs
Jacobs 40 80  
Brooks 14 28 15/54%
Wilson 3 6  

 

The offensive line gave the running backs little scope to display any flashy moves and plenty of opportunity to show their toughness.  Emanuel Wilson and Chris Brooks gained 10 yards on 2 carries.  Josh Jacobs gained 66 yards on 18 carries for a 3.67-yard average, with 3 touchdowns and a long run of 19 yards.  The running backs were not targeted in the passing game, which seems odd because the Lions were playing some backup linebackers.  Jacobs missed a blitz pick-up.

 

TIGHT ENDS:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Kraft 44 88 5/18%
Sims 18 36 6/21%
Fitzpatrick 6 12 5/18%

 

Kraft caught 3 of his 5 targets for 41 yards with a long of 26.  He caught a bullet from Love for a 12-yard touchdown thrown into a very small window.  Sims caught 1 pass for 2 yards.  FitzPatrick had no targets.  

 

QUARTERBACKS:

Player Snaps % ST
Love 50 100  
Willis DNP  

 

Love completed 12 of 20 passes (60%) for 206 yards (10.3 yards/attempt) and 1 touchdowns.  He had a passer rating of 111.7.  He had to scramble 4 times for 23 yards with a long of 14.  Love was accurate and did well when he was pressured, which was all too often.  I thought he had several excellent throws into tight windows.  There were times when wide receivers got open late but Love was already on the run.  I saw no turnover-worthy passes.  Love had several "big-time" throws, including a pass to Watson after he evaded a blitz by Jack Campbell, and the touchdown pass to Kraft.  Love was a little antsy early in the game, but he settled down.

 

WIDE RECEIVERS:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Watson 46 92  
Wicks 39 78  
Reed 25 50 2/7%
Melton 9 18 9/32%
Heath 6 12 7/25%

 

With Doubs still out, the Packers again decided to give Dontayvion Wicks starting snaps.  Wicks caught 4 of 5 targets for 49 yards with a long of 26.  The bigger development is the blossoming of Christian Watson into a more polished, and not just a big play, low volume receiver.  Watson caught 4 of 7 targets for 114 yards with a long of 59.  Watson is running more of the route tree.  He seems to be able to get separation when he gets isolated and gets single coverage.  Watson had a fumble when he held the ball with just one hand away from his body. 

Inexplicably, Jayden Reed had no receptions and just 1 target.  Reed had no rushing attempts.  Melton and Heath also had no targets and no rushing attempts.  The Lions have missing players and presumably there are match-ups that should have been exploited.  Everything in this game came hard.  Success generally was the result of the individual prowess of the various players.  There were no plays that I thought the Packers could run and expect regular success.  Since nothing came easy, the Packers only converted 1 of 5 third down opportunities.  In part due to getting some short fields while Detroit had multiple long drives, the Packers only had 50 snaps (Detroit had 80 snaps) and the Packers time of possession was 23:54 while Detroit held the ball foir 36:06 minutes.  This was not LaFleur's best offensive game plan.        

 

 

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN:

 

Player Snaps % ST
Clark 52 65  
Slaton 43 54 11/39%
Wyatt 26 32 1/4%
Brooks 25 31 8/29%
Wooden 13 16 16/21%
       
Enagbare 42 52 11/39%
Gary 41 51 8/33%
Van Ness 35 44 11/39%
Mosby 22 28 18/64%
Cox 21 26 8/29%

 

The Packers held Detroit to 111 yards on 34 attempts, a 3.26-yard per carry average.  Their running backs gained 94 yards on 29 carries, a 3.24-yard average.  Gibbs gained 43 yards on 15 carries with a long of 20, meaning Gibbs gained 23 on 14 carries other than the 20-yard explosive run.  The Packers just could not get off the field.  The Lions converted 11 of 20 third and fourth down opportunities.  The Packers did force 2 punts in the first half, but none in the second half, though they did get a turnover on downs and got off the field when Nixon intercepted a pass.

Clark lived in the backfield despite being double-teamed.  Clark had 8 tackles (5 solo) with one of them being a tackle for loss.  Note that Clark had 23 tackles in the first 12 games.  34 rushes and 41 pass attempts led to 88 tackles by the Packers.  Mr. Clark earned his paycheck.  Wyatt had 4 tackles (3 solo) plus a quarterback hit.  Wooden had 4 tackles (3 solo) with one being a tackle for loss.  Slaton had 3 tackles (1 solo).  Brooks had 1 assisted tackle.  He did hit the quarterback but the quarterback had already handed the ball off to the running back for a big gain.  Brooks was otherwise quiet in this game.

Gary had 3 tackles (1 solo), one of which was a tackle for loss, and 2 quarterback hits.  Van Ness had 3 tackles (1 solo).  Enagbare had just 2 assisted tackles despite leading the DEs in snaps.  Cox had 2 tackles (1 solo) and Mosby had a solo tackle.  Another quarterback completed close to 80% of his pass attempts (32 of 41 for Goff, 78%).  Detroit has a good offensive line which afforded ample time to Goff.  LT Dan Skipper replaced Detroit's Taylor Decker.  Skipper had a 51 PFF grade for pass blocking and a 50 in run blocking, but he held up well and drew a penalty due in part to his acting skills.

 

LINEBACKERS:

 

McDuffie 80 100 3/11%
Walker 79 99 6/21%
Wilson 44 55 23/82%
Hopper     14/50%

 

The Packers missed Edgerrin Cooper.  McDuffie had a whopping 15 tackles (11 solo), but that does not mean he had a particularly good game.  He had issues with coverage.  He was often the linebacker who was sent on the blitz due to his coverage limitations.  That make it harder to disguise which linebacker might shoot a gap.  Walker had 10 tackles (6 solo) including a tackle for loss.  Wilson had 3 tackles (1 solo) and was involved in a miscommunication in coverage.  The Lions really targeted the linebackers, just as Miami did, mostly over the middle of the field.  

 

SECONDARY:

 

McKinney 80 100 12/43%
Nixon 79 99 12/43%
Anderson 53 66 19/68%
Valentine 46 57 7/25%
Stokes 42 52 6/21%
Bullard 30 38 8/29%
Williams 27 34 2/7%
Rochell     11/39%
Olapado     5/18%

 

Injuries to Bullard (ankle) and Evan Williams (concussion) forced Nixon to move from the perimeter corner and required Zayne Anderson, who had 8 career defensive snaps over his 4-year career, to play 53 snaps at safety.  Anderson had 4 tackles (2 solo), including a big tackle for little to no gain.  Nixon had 10 tackles (3 solo), 2 passes defensed including an interception.  He also got grabby and was called for pass interference near the end zone.  McKinney had 7 tackles (4 solo). Bullard had 4 tackles (1 solo) before his exit.  Stokes had 3 assisted tackles and difficulty with in-breaking routes.  Valentine had 1 solo tackle.  Williams had no statistics.  

 

SPECIAL TEAMS:

 

McManus made a 32-yard field goal and all 4 of his extra point attempts.  Whelan averaged 41.7 net on 2 punts, both inside the 20. 

 

Photo courtesy of USA Today Network

 

RB: 1.14

TE: 1.36

WR: 2.50

DT: 1.99

DE: 2.01

LB: 2.53

DB: 4.46

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Comments (58)

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 07:36 am

It would be nice if GB would come out roaring on their first drive. Also, it would be nice if Love did not have happy feet early in the game. I suppose that is in part adrenaline, and who can blame a player for that? Still, I like to see Love dissect an opponent early in the game with precision. 5 plays, 19 yards , punt, followed by 3 plays, zero yards/punt followed by 2 plays 27 yards fumble, though that's on Watson.

GB has been okay if not great in that department this season. How often should a team put points on the board with their opening (scripted) drive? Against Miami the first drive was a 3 and out. GB scored a TD on the opening drive vs. SF and Chicago. GB opened with a FG against Detroit (Nov. 3). Punts against Jacksonville, Arizona, and LAR, with an INT by Love vs. Houston. There was a FG against MN and a punt against Philly. With Malik Willis at QB, GB's first drives were TD and FG.

Fewer mistakes at least. The offensive pass interference against Watson seemed odd. Close game against a good team. GB has a good team. It just seems to be in some invisible shackles. Still, 34-31 while losing on the last play of the game and forcing the other team to go for it five times on 4th down makes GB a tough out. Need to do better in the high leverage situations. Next year Detroit gets Hutchinson, DJ Reader, and Anzalone back from injury. Hard to match that with just the draft or even with plunging heavily into free agency.

Edit: Maybe I should write bad stuff about Kenny Clark more often. He looked like he did in 2018, Now he just needs more help.

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T7Steve's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:24 am

" Josh Jacobs gained 66 yards on 19 carries for a 3.67-yard average"

Was that a typo, TGR? 66 on 18 is what I think it was and that's what your average works out to.

I agree the RBs got their yard in spite of the poor blocking.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:30 am

fat fingers. I will fix. It was 66 yards on eighteen carries, not 19 carries. Jacobs had a long gain of 19.

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:31 am

Love did Jacobs no favors by pounding him into loaded boxes.

At some point, they're going to have to lean more on Wilson and Brooks to take some of the wear and tear off Jacobs. He's taking a pounding.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:08 am

Love pounded him?

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:11 am

In some ways, that seems poetic.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:20 am

But in as many, is just wrong.

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BruceC1960's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:56 pm

Not sure why Jacob’s would play 40 snaps with 18 carries? It’s a long season. Would like to see the other 2 backs take some of the wear and tear off Jacob’s.

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crayzpackfan's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:10 am

I don't understand why GB is so hell bent on handing the ball off from the shotgun more times than not. The Ravens were doing that with Henry the first couple games of the year and he struggled. Coaches changed, even gave him a FB in front of him now and then and he's a beast again. If there were ever a time for GB to to get big, it was last night. Tough running, play action, screens and TE work should've been the plan.

As much as it pains me to admit this, but Detroit plays us like we're their little brother now. If this becomes their norm for the next few years, we better ramp it up or this division will be going through Detroit for a while.

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Guam's picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:05 pm

I thought LaFleur wasted the first quarter offensively when he tried to throw deep against heavy blitzing and wasn't much better in the second quarter. What happened to swing passes to backs or screens to get the ball past the blitz? I don't think any of the backs ever saw a checkdown throw the entire game. Just an odd offensive game plan from LaFleur.

LaFleur did make good half time adjustments, but it's tough to beat one of the best teams in the league with one half of offensive football.

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Celise...'s picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:27 pm

was it LaFleur's calls or Love's decisions to make those deep throws??? i actually thought i was watching aaron rodgers out there with the way Jordan kept looking down the field instead of taking the short stuff for first downs. it would be no real surprise since he learned by following aaron for 3 years...he did his line no favors with this mindset. just like watching him decide to run it in on the last series when one of his receivers was coming across the back of the endzone right in front of him and he never even looked at him.

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Razer's picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:32 pm

... i actually thought i was watching aaron rodgers out there with the way Jordan kept looking down the field instead of taking the short stuff for first downs...

I thought the same. Maybe some of the short stuff wasn't clearly open. The one short crosser to Watson was actually tipped by the defender. Seems like "little separation" is also a holdover from the Rodgers era.

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crayzpackfan's picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:44 pm

I don't think MLF even had a play like that sent in. If he did and Love went off script to do his own thing, then again, that's up to the coach to well, be a coach and reel that crap in.

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Guam's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:12 pm

Love's a pretty young QB to go that far off script. Maybe, but I would more suspect that was the play called. Remember LaFleur had more time with Rodgers than Love ever did. The coach could have been as easily influenced as the player.

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BA4Pack's picture

December 06, 2024 at 07:50 am

I don’t understand how our offensive line was outplayed by the Lions second and third team defensive linemen and linebackers.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:14 am

Because it isn't that great. GB has no really terrible linemen (what Mike Wahle calls the fish) - I mean someone like a Byron Bell stinking up the joint at guard. We do have two good linemen in Tom and most people would add Jenkins. Rasheed is probably average, and teams can scrape by with Myers and Rhyan but that's all. Bahk would be the best OL if he were around. So would Sitton although Tom has a case, at least this year. Same for Lang and Bulaga. Good pass pro, not so good at moving people.

I have been hoping for example that Rasheed improves a bit. Left tackles who can play are valuable, but I would prefer not to give a boat load of guaranteed money to a guy I would be hoping to upgrade. Tom is going to get his money because he is good. Tom is a little too finesse and gives up a trifle too much ground in his pass protection, but he is sound and usually consistent (though I thought he had a few breakdowns against the Lions - more than just giving up the sack to Zadarius). GB will probably use a premium pick (2nd round?) on a center to replace Myers.

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T7Steve's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:26 am

"center to replace Myers"

Who was repeatedly shoved back into Love's face.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:12 am

The entire OL was eaten alive all game. Jenkins looks hampered, but even Tom was bad. The fiction of a good OL has been exposed cruelly. Not that the signs haven’t been there this season and previously. It’s the approach as much as the players and the incredible refusal to address continuing issues from Stenavich. We kept one coordinator too many.

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:14 am

The Lions crashed the LOS hard, especially early, and won with effort and numbers. We'll see the same things from Seattle next week and New Orleans after that if the Packers don't show they can beat it. That said, the Packers did end up putting up 31 against it.

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Celise...'s picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:35 pm

they had only 1 "drive" in the game when they opened the second half with that drive that was mostly run plays. the other touchdowns came on short fields and cannot be considered "drives" . you beat aggressiveness at the line with short passes and jordan spent most of the time looking to far down the field and therefore running out of time. i actually thought the line held up fairly well considering how many lions were continually coming in at them.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 03:17 pm

Again, if our "entire OL was eaten alive all game''', how did we get get 31 points on the board?
''

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GregC's picture

December 06, 2024 at 03:29 pm

I have the same question. The OL definitely got punched in the mouth at the beginning, but they stabilized after that. I wonder if crowd noise was a factor on those first couple possessions. The announcers said it was super loud in there. It looked like the OL was getting beaten off the snap in the early going but may have adjusted. This should help them prepare for Seattle anyway.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 03:53 pm

Did you watch? Mostly Jacobs after contact and a lot of Love collapsed pocket improvisation or extended play.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:10 pm

So, good things can happen on offense if people aren't blocked? That contradicts 60 years of experience. Then why spend draft picks on OL? Why not just spend high picks on superduper skill position players who don't need blocking?

I can't believe a guy as smart as you believes that.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:25 pm

Watch. No, it’s not sustainable and it actually suggests how much potential from Jacobs we are wasting.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:32 pm

Jacobs is having a great year. It's ALREADY his second best season in total yardage. In four games, he'll be close to the year he led the league in rushing.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:36 pm

Not sustainable.? We've played13 games!!!. We have a Top Offense, rush and pass. But somehow, in your world, that has been smoke and mirrors and magic.

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GregC's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:15 pm

They were never great, but they were a lot better than they were on those first couple possessions.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 05:24 pm

That much I agree with, but you and I and three others could have matched their prowess on those early ones (maybe at some medical cost admittedly).

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:36 am

The Lions did it mostly with numbers. They were aggressively crashing the LOS last night.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:11 am

I think GB's blitz rate is going to be pretty steep as well. I will be interested to see what the blitz percentage of both teams were - a couple of times it was lower than I had expected.

I was trying to figure out who covered Reed. I thought it was Branch (E#31) a few times but maybe it was Amik Robertson (#21)? If there is blitzing there ought to be quick hitters.

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:18 am

The Lions threw a crap-ton of passes, though, so the blitz rate might not end up looking very impressive.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 10:14 am

Goff’s speed of release beat the blitz consistently. The depth of our cover behind the line just gave him open men 8 to 10 yards almost immediately, more so when we blitzed. He only threw over 15 yards twice in the game. In stead of trying to take away receivers we played zone to limit the damage, but at a depth they could march all day with a run or other pass attempt sprinkled in.

We hardly contested the short zone all night and Goff reveled in low risk fast throws. Hafley played scared in coverage and the Lions reveled in it gratefully.

I still think Hafley has potential, but he needs a coach like Campbell to tell him to play to win, not just try to contain and hope the damage isn’t great enough. Sadly, LaFleur’s DCs all became more cautious and Hafley is treading the same path. One of the reasons why we need to move on to get the best from talent on and off the field.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:14 am

Which is easily exploited by a smart play caller. LaFleur spent a half just playing into it. There’s no place to hide behind stacking.

What do you think Campbell/Goff were going to negate our blitzing? If LaFleur can’t replicate that (and he didn’t) then he’s not the smart cookie so many are gulled into thinking he is. The charade has run its course.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 03:15 pm

I don't understand how we put 31 points on the board when our offensive line was being outplayed.

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GregC's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:17 am

I did not know Kadeem Telfort played guard. I thought he was strictly a tackle. He seemed to do okay there.

With injuries, it's not how many are injured, it's how difficult they are to replace. Aidan Hutchinson is one of the best defensive players in the league, so his loss is huge for the Lions, and Alex Anzalone is a good linebacker, but I wonder if the other injured Lions defenders are average players who can be adequately replaced. When the Packers won their last championship, they had a ton of injured players, but none of them were great, and the good ones were replaceable. (Desmond Bishop for Nick Barnett was actually an upgrade.) Maybe the Lions situation is more like that--with the exception of Hutchinson of course. And they did after all give up 31 points to the Packers, including 24 in the second half.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:02 am

Hutchinson - all pro DE
DJ Reader: NT $11M/year 67.8 pff
LB Anzalone: $6.25M/yr so medium $. 66.8 pff grade
LB Derrick Barnes good r def, good pass 71.8 pff
Davenport: $6.5M/yr. Hurt all the time last few years.
DE Josh Paschal starter just ok. good run d.

It thus is 2 of the 3 starting LBs (Jack Campbell Mike LB had a very good game against GB) and it is 2 of the DTs and both starting DEs.

Hutchinson would start for GB.
Reader would start for GB.
Barnes instant starter.
Anzalone starts.
Don't know about davenport or paschal. RotationalMaybe?

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GregC's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:47 am

I don't think there's anything special about being a starter. Lots of backups are almost as good as average starters. Sometimes you can get by with the backups. D.J. Reader is 30 years old and has been injured a lot in recent years, so I'm not sure if his absence is a big deal. Anzalone and Barnes are significant losses, though. It will be interesting to see if these replacement players can hold up for the rest of the season.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:16 am

Telfort has been mostly at G since the summer. He’s not really mobile enough to play T. I agree he appeared no worse than Ryan or any other IOL last night.

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:19 am

Agreed. If Telfort weren't primarily a G, they wouldn't have had both Dillard and Glover active and Monk inactive.

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dobber's picture

December 06, 2024 at 08:45 am

Man...Zayne Anderson playing 2/3 of the defensive snaps says a lot.

I think you're a little hard on McDuffie. The Packers were had at all levels in the passing game when the Lions wanted to throw the ball...but they seemed to be playing run first most of the night which gave away too much in the middle zones. Goff never went over the top...the Lions only had two pass plays of more than 15 yards.

Packer pass rushers were often a step late or pushed well past Goff on the speed rush. Enagbare's best hit of the night came on a ref.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 10:23 am

It is a shame that we never tried Nixon at S. We could have tried King in the slot had we done so. King seems like he’d be in his optimal element against a short passing approach. Likewise Rochelle’s short area physical ability might have improved our chances last night as a perimeter option. Hafley just won’t risk these types of move for fear of failure, he’d rather live with known mismatches being exploited over potential. That has to come from LaFleur’s mindset.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:06 am

For me, last night was a test. The loss doesn’t mean much in itself as far as post season prospects, but this was a chance to see how good we were in terms of game plan and in the trenches. Were we pretenders or are we ready to be more. We emphatically got our answer on both sides of the ball.

Last night we saw that our OL was trashed by 3rd and 4th level depth. The myth of competence was shredded by back ups to back ups. Even Tom may have had his worst game as a Packer, but Love spent the first half on his back in seconds. Jacobs took almost a quarter to get a chance and then essentially broke his way to yards despite the OL. When a play for start to develop enough to see it, it looked like another game plan of long developing plays. Kraft was overlooked for a half. Our OL was pathetic and not just in the run game. The LaFleur/Stenovich system and philosophy needs to go. It’s time to build a real line.

On D we got extra cautions when we lost Williams. We played deep and scared and did so without the lead or the aggression displayed against Tua. Goff simply did what Tua did all night. McDuffie was again abused in coverage. The rush was largely neutered simply by quick throws over the middle to a 10 yard deep cordon.

Hafley looked like Barry. He’s getting more timid. Something each LaFleur DC had become. That meant playing Stokes and Valentine less advantageously as well as 8-10 yards for free over the middle most of the tome. Goff might have put that plan on his wish list.

We don’t risk to win, we try not to lose. It’s clearly the LaFleur way as it continually spreads to all phases regardless of coordinators. The aggression on O in the second half was mostly Love improvising from non existent pockets and broken plays.

I am finally to the point where I’m convinced no LaFleur led team will be anything other than a decent regular season pretender that crumbles tactically and in the trenches when it matters. The Lions O is good, but we played to its strengths. Their current D isn’t particularly, but it was too good for our OL and game plan. Like last season, it looked to me that we did better when Love had to essentially improvise.

It is time to accept that we won’t be a real winner with this head coach. He doesn’t have what it takes to get us there. The players have changed but the reasons haven’t. If we want to do more with the talent we do have, then we need to move on from the pretender. LaFleur is a roster rider not someone who will ever lift one over its capabilities. It’s time to start seeing not just believing. It’s time for LaFleur to go.

I realize that calling for the removal of LaFleur won’t be popular, and perhaps may upset, but sometimes the unpalatable is the best source of hope. Meaningful success isn’t coming under his leadership. Hope lies in moving on. He is what he is and we are the result of that. Pretty at times, but ultimately flawed from the conceptual level.

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Razer's picture

December 06, 2024 at 12:30 pm

I always thought Coldworld was a balanced opinion. Am I seeing frustration over logic with your take? You make a lot of good points but the finger does seem to point back to a lack of skills and talent at key positions. The coaches have been contending with these for years but the reality cannot be dismissed simply by firing the coach. When you don't have enough talent in the secondary to play man in this league you play zone and hope your D-line forces throws or gets a sack. Of course, you need a D-line that can pressure a QB.

Almost every fundamental on this team lacks key elements. From linebacker to O-line, we have a lot of average talent that was able to compete last night but they just aren't good enough to consistently beat the man in front of them. Before I start firing coaches I might want to ask Gutekunst what he is going to change to improve his draft results.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 12:40 pm

No, I think just seeing me come to a tipping point in my assessment of why this team is what it is and being willing to say so. I’ve stepped back from this conclusion several times over seasons to see if changes improved things. Now I have lost faith that real change or evolution in ideas and culture will come. It was not the loss but the way we conducted ourselves that just hasn’t moved forward.

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Razer's picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:40 pm

Fair enough. Last year I actually enjoyed the whole season as my expectations were low, as in, rebuild mode. This year my expectations are higher along with my frustration and disappointment that the same old, same old still rears its ugly head. For me, it is more than I don't think we draft enough good football players and generally miss with our high round selections. Hard to compete when you don't have the horses.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:11 pm

Yo draft correctly you have to be drafting for a valid objective. Part of our issue is that the OL philosophy was essentially ridiculed by Detroit. It simply isn’t going to succeed as designed coached no matter who we draft and we draft to perpetuate that flawed vision.

On D, it’s a bit more complicated because they were drafted (or extended) before the coach opted to go for a radically different system and philosophically. The possibility is that we wouldn’t have drafted or retained in the same way had that been known.

LaFleur does not win tactically, in Terms of motivation or in terms of elevating the roster over expectations. Moreover, failings resurface in different seasons and players. The roster has progressed but we really haven’t. It’s still the same product and result when it matters. After 7 years of repetition, it’s not going to change markedly. Last night merely confirmed the above very strikingly, but also what we can do when we improvise on O.

On D, we effectively ceded yards at a gallop for fear of giving up a big play? Sound familiar, it’s what LaFleur turned his first two DCs into. The carousel will keep spinning until we open our eyes. The empower is not wearing clothes. This is a dead end we’ve now reached. We will flatter to pretend but we won’t win the trenches against good teams and win the off field battles regularly. In fact, the last half decade repeated.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:33 pm

What this team is could just as easily be our fourth 13 win team in six seasons.

The Packers are a good team, a good organization. They have a good HC. They have a good GM and a good Prez. I am truly sorry you can't see or appreciate that.

You want to fire LaFleur because he's not the HC that Hafley needs. And because he was too slow to fire Barry, and because Steno and Butkus are no good.

I think there is 0% chance any sane person would do that. By virtually any measure you want to use, LaFleur ranks with the best in NFL history at this point.

We have the youngest team in the league. If you've reached your tipping point, that's too bad, because we're only going to get better. We lost a game on a last second field goal. It happens. We came closer to beating them than anybody else has for the last two months.

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Mike Rossmeier's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:14 am

The Lions steadily move downfield with short to intermediate passes and Goff getting rid of the ball before rushers reach him. I don't see why the Packers can't do the same - seems they have the talent..
Is LaFleur not seeing this??
Very good Snap-Count analysis.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 09:19 am

LaFleur has under used the intermediate zone all year. It’s near laterals or chunk routes for the most part all year if you look as what is being run. Kraft again was not party of the game plan, but nor was anything behind the stacked box. We seem to have forgotten how to use Reed as a slot. LaFleur’s offensive calling is a big part of our struggles.

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crayzpackfan's picture

December 06, 2024 at 11:19 am

Look at his hair (MLF)? You can just tell this dude doesn't like change. He may have a high floor, but it crashes right into his ceiling. What sucks is, he will be here for another 5-6 years.

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Mike Rossmeier's picture

December 06, 2024 at 01:45 pm

Love hit a long one to Watson yesterday - but for the most part his completed passes over 20 -15 yards are 1 out of 5, and he may be throwing off his back foot. Their receivers need to get the defender on moving backwards, then come back to the ball on 10 - 15 yarders.

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Celise...'s picture

December 06, 2024 at 02:47 pm

my understanding is that most of what is run are rpo's and that means jordan is making the call on what he wants to do within so many options. he trained under rodgers for 3 years and so he looks to me to want to throw the ball down the field instead of taking the short game for 1st downs just like aaron. jordan does not seem to me to be able to make quick decisions that are best for the team

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:26 pm

Some RPOs, but I think much less than you seem to think.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:52 pm

MIlk....I was rewatching today and I noticed that same thing. People are wrongly blaming a poor pass rush when the problem is that we couldn't cover people in that short zone. In particular, Detroit got some good business done against our linebackers. Goff is accurate on these quick throws .

Why don't we do the same? Because that's not how we're built. The MLF offense is powered by the RB position, which gets the ball about half the time. The TE is essentially a sixth offensive lineman on most plays. We like to line up 3 WRs and throw it to them. That's how we do it. I think you have to focus on what you do best, and we're one of the best teams in the NFL at throwing it downfield. We lead the league in yards per completion, Love is rarely sacked, and we're scoring points. Despite everything, we are 7th in Scoring. We throw more TD passes than just about anybody (5th)

What we do, in regards to moving the ball and scoring points, works.

The Lions absolutely exploited our LBs in the short passing game. I expect the next four teams we face will try their luck at that, which is fine because it'll give our guys some practice against it before we see Detroit again.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

December 06, 2024 at 12:40 pm

I have been able to use my son's prime video to re-watch the game. That was fun. So, McDuffie brought his physicality to the game, which I like and this team kind of needs. It looked to me like GB sent Wilson and McDuffie on quite a few blitzes, I thought more than in past games. Then again, they played more snaps than usual. They sent Quay as well at times. It is hard to tell but at least when I could see Zayne Anderson, he looked okay. It is hard to tell how fast his recognition is since his reaction to a play often occurs while he is off the screen.

Now packerswire has published PFF stuff (I don't subscribe). I was a little surprised by some of their analysis. What is noteworthy and it sure seems roughly accurate is that Goff completed 16 of 21 passes to the middle of the field for 157 yards and 3 touchdowns. I might have been harsh but PFF giving Myers a 0.00 pass block grade seems a little over the top. Edit: new info - PFF noted that Detroit completed 13 or 13 targets for 95 yards when targeting Wilson and McDuffie. Quay allowed 3 of 3 for 32, so nothing to write home about there, either. No context here, just numbers, mind.

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Coldworld's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:31 pm

Wilson barely played. McDuffie is an asset in the run game but hopelessly out of his depth in coverage. He gave up 150 yards against Tua. I’d hoped we’d see Hopper risked, or Oladapo, but no, we kept him in while he was being exploited by an almost exclusively pass based attack at that point.

Sure, Hopper/Oladapo might have been as ineffective, but they could hardly give up more and might have been able to cover some. To compound this, the backs were playing at first down depth or more for most of the game. Goff must have thought Christmas came early.

Yes, Myers the untouchable was that bad. Myers can move backwards like a champion and he showed that over and over again except when he was just whipped. This is not new, just a team that knew it and backed themselves to beat him with back ups to backups. Stenavich is a busted flush who should have been gone years ago, but now Detroit have simply stripped away any pretence.

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Leatherhead's picture

December 06, 2024 at 04:53 pm

Yeah, amazing we only scored 31 on the road against the best team in the Conference.

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