Packers 2023 NFL Draft Day 2 Targets
The board pretty much fell the Packers' way on Thursday night, giving them a laundry list of prospects to consider on Day 2.
By JosephR
The 1st Round of the 2023 NFL Draft kicked off Thursday night and it was WILD from the get-go, between trades and surprising selections there was no shortage of action throughout the evening. But for the Packers there was little in the way of razzle-dazzle, as they once again went defense and selected Iowa edge Lukas Van Ness with the 13th Overall Pick. Many fans had hoped that the Packers' drought of going wide receiver in the 1st Round would be broken given Jordan Love entering his first year as the starting quarterback, but instead, Brian Gutekunst chose to shore up Joe Barry's underperforming defense. But don't fret, the Packers have 3 picks on Day 2, with two of those still within the Top 50. There's plenty of talent to go around and the Packers have picks right in the "sweet spot" of this year's Draft. If Packer fans were hoping for a receiver or tight end, Round 2 is sure to be their greatest hope for a new toy on offense.
Another need for the Packers is also addressing the offensive line. There are question marks if David Bakhtiari might be entering his last year in Green Bay, and Yosh Nijman might bolt for a bigger payday elsewhere. While overall this unit is still pretty solid there are questions on the longevity of that success for 2024 and beyond. Drafting a player who could push for playing time right away or elevate the overall level of talent could go a long way to helping Jordan Love realize his potential on the field quickly.
While Van Ness certainly adds to the defense, there are still additional holes to be filled. While it's unsure if Van Ness will also play on the defensive line, that unit could also use an extra player or two to add to the rotation. While it's almost certain that Kenny Clark will move around to find the best way to exploit the opposing offensive line, he could certainly use some help to pressure the quarterback and stop the run. Additional pressure would surely be a relief valve for a secondary that has a need at safety and possibly nickel as well.
I've made my Big Board (I actually drew it up during the CHTV Live Stream - Don't tell Aaron), I've checked it twice, and I'm here to let you know who's sporty and nice(it's after midnight, cut me some slack).
Wide Receiver
Michael Wilson, Stanford: He absolutely balled at the Senior Bowl. If he can stay healthy he should surprise some teams by his 2nd or 3rd year. Why is he a Packers guy? He's a plus run blocker and plays special teams too! He should compete immediately for the #3 WR spot.
Rashee Rice, SMU: Top-30 visit, plus run blocker and excels after the catch. He can move all over the field which should make life easier for him and Christian Watson.
Grant DuBose, Charlotte: 50/50 ball specialist and matchup nightmare. Impressive wingspan for his size, can make the tough catches look easy. If he continues to develop he could turn into WR #1a.
Tight End
Michael Mayer, Notre Dame: He's TE1 in this year's class. Great contested catch ability to go with his prototypical size. Top-30 visit. He should be the guy Day 1.
Darnell Washington, Georgia: A guy with offensive tackle size shouldn't be this fast or explosive. While undoubtedly a projection, if he pans out, we could be looking at a generational player. Top-30 visit. LaFleur can't wait to draw up packages for this guy.
Tucker Kraft, South Dakota State: He dominated his FCS competition. Plus run blocker in college and should demand attention in the passing game from Jordan early.
Defensive Line
Keion White, Georgia Tech: One of if not the biggest "freak" of the class, can play the coveted "Z" role with his hand in the dirt or rushing from 2-point. Was a Top-30 visit.
Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern: He's a defensive lineman with 4.49 speed which is probably why the Packers brought him in for a visit. Slightly undersized but has power that allows him to play 3T all the way out to 4i. He's definitely a guy the Packers would love to have on "money downs".
Gervon Dexter Sr, Florida: Elite speed and very good agility for a 6'5, 303-pounder. Consistently wins 1-on-1s, collapses the pocket, and will demand double teams. I like him rotating in at edge on the defensive line.
Offensive Line
Jaelyn Duncan, Maryland: Best pass blocker left on the board, should create competition for the tackle group early on.
Dewand Jones, Ohio State: Best run blocker left on the board, he's right tackle only but if he can keep his weight under control might be able to alternate between right tackle and right guard.
Luke Wypler, Ohio State: A center whose athleticism rivals some offensive tackles, his technique is what really makes him shine. He could answer a lot of concerns on the offensive interior.
Safety
Brian Branch, Alabama: This year's S1 is a very attractive option Day 2, his penchant for making tackles in the box while matching up at nickel will be a welcome addition to any defensive scheme. I like him as a plug and play starter at strong safety.
Jartavius Martin, Illinois: He can play safety or corner, which adds to his value. Better than good ball production. His natural athleticism combined with discipline will afford him the ability to play single high. Top-30 visit. I like what he could bring to the rotation in the DB room.
Jammie Robinson, Florida State: He flies all over the field lowering the boom. I'm not sure where he lines up, but strong safety or sub-package DB/LB play to his strengths. Top-30 visit. He could be the "3rd safety" the Packers are looking for.
A good portion of these guys the Packers took a long look at, but so did 31 other teams as well. But of course, there's always the surprise that someone "falls" that the Packers' front office never thought would be there too. Catch us live tomorrow night as we watch Day 2 of the NFL Draft unfold.
#GPG
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Joseph has been an avid fan of the Green Bay Packers since 1997, citing an affinity for dairy products during his childhood and his favorite color, green. Born in Jacksonville, FL, Joseph currently is an Active Duty servicemember in the U.S. Armed Forces. Joseph considers himself a lifelong fan of the game of football, competing since his youth well into adulthood. When it comes to the Pack, Joseph is particularly impassioned about the NFL Draft and collegiate scouting process, and will contribute regularly on CHTV.com leading to that year's upcoming Draft. You can follow him on Twitter at @joeyreyallday.
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Comments (76)
BAMABADGER
April 28, 2023 at 12:08 pm
Washington or Kraft please, not Mayer. He has no upside and is at his ceiling. Watch his tape, once he catches the ball he goes down. Neither speed nor moves. Second TE pick in 3rd or 4th should be Kuntz or Whyle.
Tundraboy
April 28, 2023 at 12:34 pm
",once he catches the ball he goes down"
No please. Anything but that!!! I never ever want to see another slow, plodding unable to break tackles tight end in a Green Bay uniform again.
Leatherhead
April 28, 2023 at 04:01 pm
That would be Ed West, who was a real good player for us.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 01:08 pm
His high floor is the reason why he's TE1. Michael Mayer does everything well, and he's done everything well consistently against good competition. Darnell Washington is a projection of what he COULD be, and while Tucker Kraft is probably the most similar prospect to Mayer, he did it against lesser competition.
With Mayer you know exactly what you get, both Washington and Kraft have question marks.
While Mayer isn't blazing fast for a TE, I wouldn't call him either "slow" or "plodding". Fans have to stop hoping for a Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates every year, those kinds of players don't come around very often, there may be imitators, but the Real McCoy is rare. Mayer is a traditional TE, who averaged 11.7 yards per catch. That pretty much means every time he caught the ball he got a 1st Down. You can ask for more but you can't say you'd be mortified if that's all you got.
Tundraboy
April 28, 2023 at 01:32 pm
Fair enough. I just want someone that fights through being tackled and doesn't go down at the first sign of contact.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 02:42 pm
There’s no doubt that Meyer is the most rounded TE on the board, but he’s neither the most dangerous weapon nor the best blocker. How valuable is that? The fact that he’s dropped this far suggests that teams share my concern that he’s going to be much less of a factor against better athletes at the NFL level. His upside is relatively minimal beyond what he is. Is that valueless? No. But I’d it second round? Maybe if we were a contender needing a TE, but for us, I’d take Washington first, take the blocking and work in upside or look at a guy like Laporte or Kraft etc. Not as polished, but more room to grow.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 02:47 pm
Mayer didn't "fall". The DIC said he was a 1st Round Pick. I admit I thought he might go in the 1st as well. I didn't think he was Top-15, but I could have seen him possibly go Top-25. I knew either way the Packers would have their choice of Tight End in the 1st Round if they truly wanted one. In the end, only 1 Tight End got drafted last night, and to me, Kincaid is just a bigger WR which is why I said to avoid him at all costs.
The NFL almost entirely said "we're not taking Tight Ends in the 1st Round", but you'll see the top of the class devoured by the end of Day 2.
golfpacker1
April 28, 2023 at 03:04 pm
I am glad he did fall. I thought 3 might be picked in the first. If we are lucky, maybe only 2 teams will try to trade up in front of us. Dallas wants Washington bad. The Lions and the Raiders are also players for TE. We are going to get a really good one in the 2nd round who will grow with Jordan. Hopefully 2 or 3 this draft.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 03:20 pm
He, like branch, fell from the consensus pre-combine as a first half of round one pick. He will now be a second rounder. That’s a fall. He may be a very early second rounder, he may not, but in both cases, a lack of athleticism can make great college players average or worse in the pros.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 05:02 pm
I wouldn't go as far as saying lack of athleticism....he's a good athlete, just not an elite one. He is the prototypical "Y" Tight End. As I said before, this "gold rush" for finding a TE who runs sub 4.6 can be somewhat of a fool's errand.
greengold
April 28, 2023 at 04:59 pm
Athlon is time tested and have followed for 4 decades going on 5…
Michael Mayer is the #15th Ranked Player in their Top 100.
croatpackfan
April 28, 2023 at 02:00 pm
JosephR, I respect your knowledge and your insight in football players capabilities.
I just want to say this. When you are picking young players, you should always go with good player with unfinished development. Why? Because when you get the ready product, you have to adapt your system to him to allow him to do what he knows and can. When you got good (and we are talking of very good individuals) but not finished product, you adapt his further development to mold him to fits exactly what you need from him in your system. In that case, you'll get better player for your team, than finished one who is not so well suited for system you play. It takes some time, but it is faster to adapt (develop) one player to the team system, that to adapt team system to one player.
That is my logic. Thank you!
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 02:21 pm
I understand your point of view, but by your logic you're assuming the selection of players who don't fit the offense. Tight Ends for the most part have 3 archetypes, "F", "Y", and "H". Mayer, Washington, and Kraft, are all "Y" Tight Ends. Kincaid who did go in the 1st Round is an "F".
Now to go with your reasoning, SOME "F"s can become "Y"s, but "Y"s can't become "F"s. "H"s are just what they are.
LaFleur's system needs "Y"s, two preferably. While Kincaid was brought in for a visit, it was probably to see if he could make that transition from "F" to "Y"(I don't expect him to), that's probably why he fell to 27th Overall.
Washington represents the most elite athleticism you can get from a "Y" while Mayer is what you usually see towards the top. But again, Mayer has shown everything you want from a "Y" on his film. Washington you've seen flashes. If Washington is out of the league in two years, the same people who clamored for him will either be quiet or quick to turn on Gutekunst saying he should have known better than them and picked Mayer.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 02:50 pm
If Washington is out of the league in 2 years i will be shocked. While it’s perfectly possible he doesn’t turn in to an offensive juggernaut, it’s pretty much universally accepted that he’s got plus hands and that he’s the best in line blocking TE to come out in a long time. He had played as effectively a 6th OL much of the time, as near to Lewis’s role as you can get in college. If he wants it, he could probably play for years on that alone.
I doubt Kincaid was here to audition as a Y. I suspect that they wanted to evaluate him more in relation to the Lazard type role. He’s a WR, a very big one, in all but name if you watched him. Musgrave too. Block well for a WR maybe, but as a Y, a waste of athleticism probably and an almost complete learning curve.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 02:54 pm
I don't think he will be, but there are rumors of him being an undisciplined and lazy player. That could have him out of the league by 2024. Washington's safety blanket is that if he doesn't pan out as a Tight End he'd probably be a very good Offensive Tackle. Time will tell either way.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 03:02 pm
I’ve looked for those. It’s odd that they don’t seem to be coming from his team and seem to lack any identifiable detail or origin. Rumors that can’t be substantiated and don’t show up in film are worthy of discounting. Not many plus blockers are lazy and effort averse in my experience. Seems a bit like Gary having no desire, no motor and being stupid to me. Many believed all 3.
The question with Washington is how can a guy with hands that good, that speed and that agility not have spent his senior year as the fulcrum of that O? That’s a fair, question, but is that something he was given the chance to do or more to do with coaching or other factors such as need and alternatives?
jannesbjornson
April 28, 2023 at 06:00 pm
Get a blocking TE later on.
croatpackfan
April 28, 2023 at 02:55 pm
As I said, I respect your opinion. I have nothing else to add to my opinion. I'm not advocating for this or that player. For me it is irelevant. I just want the best for the Packers.
From my experience with hiring people (not from drafting football players!) I found out that it is always better to draft younger guy who need some or more development, than, at the moment of hiring already ready to go man with whom you might have some misunderstandings. But I admit that it may be large difference in hiring (or drafting) player than person for some different type of job.
Let see what Packers will be able to do further in this draft.
Thank you on your reply.
greengold
April 28, 2023 at 04:39 pm
Precisely why I want Washington and/or Kraft.
Washington, please please please.
Julius Brents or another solid CB along with Gervon Dexter to finish the night would be swell.
Watch Tarvarius Moore & Bo Melton draft highlights. Melton over JSN all day. Moore is a big beast of a Safety. Both already on roster.
*** if you don’t watch those highlights I’ll be extremely disappointed in you! This is my gift to you, fellow Packer fans.
GPG_Since_66
April 28, 2023 at 06:29 pm
Agreed with your comments re: TE, Joseph. The Pack needs an all around TE who can start immediately. Not three years from now. If they were fortunate enough to get Mayer, it would give them some flexibility as to who that second TE they draft might be. They could take someone like Kuntz who is athletic and could be a great pass catcher down the line, or Whyle, who would be a good all around backup who doesn't need to be "all together" right away. I love Washington as a ML clone right away but is he ready to be a pass catcher year 1?
P.S. - Thanks for all your great work!
murf7777
April 28, 2023 at 04:05 pm
And with Mayer you will have to trade up….no thanks. I’d be fine with Tucker or Washington….I want to get both a WR and TE in the 2nd.
golfpacker1
April 28, 2023 at 02:58 pm
Yeah but its usually in the end zone Bama. What do you not like about 180 catches in 3 years? He catches everything and he gets open. He scores TDs.
I got news for you, if Mayer is there, GB will pick him. a 10 year starter if we keep him that long. Probably makes 5 all pro teams.
I do like all 5 of them and Whyle is going to be a steal for someone.
greengold
April 28, 2023 at 05:43 pm
Agree, golfpacker. I prefer Washington for his blocking and his high ceiling. I consider him a plus receiver who just didn’t get targets in high volume blocking assignments.
That doesn’t mean I’ll sneeze at Mayer, #15 overall. Nor Kraft # 18 overall. Nor Schoonmaker, #whatever overall…
Adding a move TE like Whyle along with any of the in-lines would be smart too. Run some 12 & 13 personnel.
CHEESEHEADDALLAS
April 28, 2023 at 03:12 pm
What have you been smokenneed a run blockerMyers need an extra linemen Myers need someone to get the tough yards MYERS in other words next pick round 2 the only words needed MICHELE MYERS TE NOTREDAME don't BLOW THIS ONE LIKE YOU DID WITH CHASE CLAY POOL
BruceC1960
April 28, 2023 at 12:27 pm
Joseph. Got the impression from your demeanor last night you weren’t thrilled with the Van Ness pick?
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 01:10 pm
I'm neutral. I respect the pick. I knew Gutekunst had to address edge early. He knocked it out of the park. The only offensive tackle on the board that I wanted was Broderick Jones but he wasn't a "must-have". When Christian Gonzalez was there I just knew Gutekunst wouldn't be able to resist but sure enough, he went ahead with Van Ness.
BruceC1960
April 28, 2023 at 02:02 pm
Gonzalez being there was a surprise. I would have been ok with that too.
Van Ness 17 reps in the bench is a little concerning?
PreSnapRead
April 28, 2023 at 02:17 pm
I would have been excited for any of these three players. I was shocked Gonzalez fell so far and that we didn't take him. Broderick Jones was the only first round tackle I liked for the Packers, I was flipping a coin between Jones and Van Ness. My dream draft for the Packers if they stayed at 13 was to take either Jones or Van Ness, so I was very happy when the scenario we saw played out.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 03:22 pm
You liked Jones better than Johnson?
WD
April 28, 2023 at 02:17 pm
Frankly, I think speed counts for something. The fastest player on the above list here is a defensive tackle named A. Adebaware who runs a 4.49. Not bad for a 282 lb guy. None of the WRs,TE's or Safeties listed were that fast. So, maybe he should be the pick. I am surprised he got out of the first round. That said, we desperately need a TE and Darnell Washington is simply the best TE for the Packers. Why? Because not only is he fast and a big target at 6'7 270 lbs, but he will be one of the very best blockers on the field. We will need that when we face other teams who are adding a lot of talent to their defense. Luckily we don't play Philadelphia twice a season as they will be destroying QB's every week. Bet on them for the Superbowl after yesterday's draft. So, let's help Love with a WR. We can do much better than the list above. I think Marvin Mims will be there in the second round. He is a smaller version of Christian Watson running in the 4.3 range. He could be penciled in the slot along with underrated Samori Toure. There are others too. One position that needs to be addressed is Center.Think of the goal line offense that was so week it cost us the playoffs. Finally we could even consider using a running back for the slot receiver. I believe that is why Jaymir Gibbs was targeted by Detroit with pick number12. Again, get creative and don't be afraid to come out of the box. Good luck tonight!
GregC
April 28, 2023 at 02:31 pm
I read that of the 10 teams picking ahead of the Packers tonight, only three of them have an obvious need at TE. So even if those teams all take TEs, the Packers should still have one or two good ones to choose from. I hope they don't get twitchy and trade up. There seem to be quite a few good WRs in this draft, so maybe they wait till the 3rd round for a WR and take a big guy with that other 2nd round pick. It looks promising. I wonder what they will do to confound me after that nice first round pick.
CheesedDeadHead
April 28, 2023 at 03:05 pm
"I read that of the 10 teams picking ahead of the Packers tonight, only three of them have an obvious need at TE. "
I believe that's Detroit (#34), Las Vegas (#37) and the Titans (#41). I think the cost would be too high to get in front of LV, but the Saints are at #40 so a swap of #40 with #42 and maybe a Packers 6th for the Saints first 7th would suffice. I would like them to get in front of the Titans.
GregC
April 28, 2023 at 04:56 pm
It was an article on PackersWire, and the three teams they mentioned were the Lions, Rams, and Saints. Maybe there are a couple more. I hope they are not ALL going to draft tight ends.
CheesedDeadHead
April 30, 2023 at 04:09 pm
As it turned out the Titans moved up to take Will Levis so they weren't in competition, but the Lions and Raiders both took TEs. Thankfully the Lions "reached" for LaPorta, which left Musgrave for the Pack to take. Saints and Rams had other higher priorities. Worked out.
greengold
April 28, 2023 at 06:15 pm
Teams below us may trade into that section of R2 as well.
I’d just keep my powder dry rather than burn another pick unless they have to have a guy like Washington or Mayer.
DeadHead, my brother! Thanks for that info!
ShawnO
April 28, 2023 at 02:45 pm
Washington is the next pick, wouldn't be surprised if Gute trades up a few spots to get him.
golfpacker1
April 28, 2023 at 03:13 pm
Shawn there are plenty of good ones available. We are not a good enough team to waste picks by moving up. I think teams will try to trade up in front of us but it will be expensive. Look at what it cost us last year to go get Watson when we could have just picked him in the first instead of Wyatt.
I would take Washington, but I would also take Mayer, Kraft, Musgrave, Laporta, & Kuntz. Later I would take Whyle, Sims or Durham. If we get 2 of these I will be thrilled.
ReaganRulz
April 28, 2023 at 03:37 pm
You just jinx’d us…thanks a lot :).
jannesbjornson
April 28, 2023 at 02:52 pm
Tillman @ #42 (maybe he falls) and Tucker Kraft @ #45 would Make My Day...Get Better. OT/DT with #78. CB in the fourth. Do not reach on these safeties.
Coldworld
April 28, 2023 at 03:12 pm
Agree on the safeties. Unless there’s a run. The best value are 4th and 5th round guys on most boards. 42 seems a round early for Tillman, but I think you are right, someone will overlook the minimal route tree and one year of production. If he’s got a clean bill of health, I’d take a gamble on Musgrave as the new Lazard too (not as a solution at TE).
jannesbjornson
April 28, 2023 at 05:40 pm
He would be lucky to be there @42. He is a Pro ready WR, not a track guy, or two-route wonders from an Air Raid offense. Musgrave must have a good PR Team.
murf7777
April 28, 2023 at 04:26 pm
The consensus big board has Tillman at 65 and Tucker at 67 so there shouldn’t be any need to trade up to get them. I like both players, but wouldn’t spend additional draft capital on either. Tucker might even drop into the mid 3rd.
jannesbjornson
April 28, 2023 at 05:42 pm
Consenus? What the hell does that mean? Pluck them in the second round and do not look back.
golfpacker1
April 28, 2023 at 03:19 pm
We probably won't be able to fill all the needs this draft. But we can get a good start and rebuild 3 position groups, TE, WR, D-line. Kicker too if we draft Moody or Ryland.
Since we are not going to be a playoff team overnight, we can fill the Safety and OT positions next year. Safety & OT look to be strong groups in the 2024 draft and we will have 2 first round picks to take 2 of the best. OT @ #10 and Safety late in the first with the Jets pick.
Vachio
April 28, 2023 at 03:33 pm
Cody Mauch. If ever there was a perfect lineman for the Pack, it's Cody Mauch. I'm hoping for him, Washington, and a WR out of day two. Mingo, Perry, Rice...I'd be happy with any of them.
ReaganRulz
April 28, 2023 at 03:35 pm
I’m not sure how some of you know whether a player has a ceiling or not. It’s no different in knowing if any player can excel or not in the NFL. So this nonsense about Mayer’s ceiling is just opinion. The guy played great at ND in multiple facets and was their main receiver last year. So how do you know if he doesn’t even have a higher ceiling? You don’t.
Leatherhead
April 28, 2023 at 04:08 pm
Cedric Tillman at #42
Rashee Rice at #45
Tucker Kraft at #78.
murf7777
April 28, 2023 at 04:28 pm
Like the players, just don’t want 2 WR’s in the first 3 rounds. Too many other needs like safety or OL.
Leatherhead
April 28, 2023 at 04:44 pm
Do you realize how many WRs have left the team in the last 12 months?
Adams. MVS. St. Brown. Lazard. Cobb. Watkins.
And we've replaced these 6 guys with one stud, one complementary starter, and a bunch of Day 3/UDFA types. If Watson can't play, this is the worst group of WRs in the league right now. Considering how much 3 WR we play, we need some more talent. Not just one guy.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 05:16 pm
I don't get the love for Tillman, especially from this group when you're telling me take Washington for the potential. Tillman's game likely won't elevate much more than what we saw at Tennessee. His physicality is what you love, but he's got a lot more work to do when it comes to the nuances of the WR position. In the Packers lineup he'd make the passing game one dimensional, they would need another WR to come off the bench (Toure) to switch it up, which would alert the defense to a change in tactics.
Wilson, Rice, Mingo, Reed, Ford-Wheaton in my opinion have higher ceilings with similar floors.
Leatherhead
April 28, 2023 at 06:26 pm
Fair enough Joseph, I'll tell you why I like Tillman.
He's bigger and more physical than most WRs, and I'm not a fan of midget WRs, so that moves him up in my mind. He has bigger than average hands, is a better than average leaper, and has a bigger than most catch radius. He was the Offensive Player of the Week at the Senior Bowl. He's a successful student (he might be smart). He's an above average run blocker.
He's an aggressive competitor and runs good routes and catches the ball away from his body with his long arms and strong hands.
His Allscouts average is 59, Consensus has him at 65.
I see the challenge is to make certain we can line up somebody on the other side of the field from Watson that has to be guarded, just like when we added MVS and St. Brown and Lazard and Kumerow to make sure we could put one healthy receiver opposite of Adams.
Right now, our WR corp is incredibly thin. Watson looks like he could be a star, and Doubs had some flashes and some drops, but the rest of the guys we have......haven't really accomplished so much that we shouldn't bring in competition.
Additionally, Tillman is ready to play, whereas the guys you mentioned like Mingo and Ford-Wheaton are probably going to take more time to develop, and where their ceiling is is only a matter of opinion. Walterfootball and the Huddlereport, among others, think he has a pretty high ceiling....and so do I.
jannesbjornson
April 28, 2023 at 06:07 pm
Bold and Solid moves, Old School, but I don't believe Kraft lasts to #78. I would snag him at #45 and trade up for Rice who is projected to the third. Use 2024 picks to maneuver, if necessary.
TKWorldWide
April 28, 2023 at 04:10 pm
No Musgrave at tight end?
greengold
April 28, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Injury history knocks him back but some still high on him.
Leatherhead
April 28, 2023 at 05:06 pm
The TEs that I want to add to this team are all guys that I'd look for in the 4th round or later. Schoonmaker, Latu, Kuntz......
For this year, I'd be happy lining up a TE as a sixth offensive lineman and throwing two passes /game to him. But it's imperative that we can line up 3 capable WRs, since we play so much 3-1-1. These guys get injured, and right now our "Big 3" is Watson, Doubs, and Toure.
If I were the defensive coordinator. I'd slide my coverage over to Watson and I'd make you beat me with Doubs and Toure. And if any of those guys is out or hobbled with an injury, that would just make it easier.
Add Rice and Tillman to Watson and Doubs and we have the core of a very good receiving unit for the next several years. Next year we can spend picks improving other units.
TKWorldWide
April 28, 2023 at 05:42 pm
I get that
BUT
If they had a threat at tight end, that might change. I think a tight end that can block AND catch makes the whole program tougher to defend against. When Marcedes was lined up, would a DC even have to account for him as a receiver? If they’re considering running the ball more, illusion of complexity, and marrying the run and pass, a versatile tight end has value!
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 05:17 pm
I'm secretly hoping he falls to comp pick time/Day 3. But with that injury history, I believe the Packers to be most likely out on Musgrave.
Turophile
April 28, 2023 at 04:53 pm
I thought for the Packers WR targets, A.T.Perry and Jonathan Mingo might be there, especially Mingo, with that solid Davante Adams build (6'1", 220) and high RAS (9.86), he might be a late riser on media big boards. Perry is leaner (and has a 9.62 RAS), but these two are my favourite receivers this year.
Interesting that no-one ever seems to mention Musgrave at TE. I have no idea how he plays, but he has good height/weight and a very good 9.78 RAS.
On the other hand I can see why LaPorta isn't a designated Packers TE target, as he is only 6'3", but he has good speed and agility. He won't stone pass rushers like Washington or Mayer, but as a pass catcher he has value. He is another guy with a high RAS (9.02).
Beyond day two (and into round 4), a perfect 10.0 RAS guy at TE is Zack Kuntz (careful how you say that name). At 6'7", 255, 4.55, A ball of moldable clay. No idea if he has the mindset to be a good player, but those traits !!
One last thing I think may happen is that it is a really good year for corners..........and a really bad year for Safeties, so there could very well be value in a corner drafted in round 3 or 4, that will be moved to safety.
WD
April 28, 2023 at 05:23 pm
Tonight we unleash hell #42 TE: Darnell Washington, or best available TE #45 WR: Jalin Hyatt , Marvin Mims, Jonathon Mingo, Josh Downs, Or Cedric Tillman . #78 Safety: Sydney Brown, Quan Martin or Antonio Jackson . . Go Pack
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 05:24 pm
Love it, when I see eye-to-eye with a comment. Mingo probably goes before Perry late 2nd Round. And the Demon Deacon is probably waiting til mid to late Round 3.
LaPorta is a better Deguara, but we have that already.
Kuntz could be a target if the Packers are good on his medical. But yes, definitely Day 3 guy.
I can't see Branch escaping the 2nd, and then we'll start to see safeties go. The Packers did bring in Jammie Robinson and Jartavius Martin so I do believe they are interested to see if they slide a little. That 3rd Rounder seems destined for one of them if the board falls right.
HawkPacker
April 28, 2023 at 06:22 pm
LaPorta is not an H back.
Turophile
April 28, 2023 at 07:37 pm
Haha, the Packers took Musgrave. Plenty of fans will be looking to the scouting reports on him.
Jayden Reed was a receiver that really came out of left field.
Packers passed on Branch (perhaps they are more wedded to high RAS guys than talent showing up on the field). They were not in on TE Washington either, like so many fans were, because they had their chances to get him.
PS The Bears get my choice for a second round pick (pre-draft), DL Gervon Dexter. Other teams in the NFC North so often get guys I like.
PPS The Bears get one of my two my 3rd round guys as well, (WR Perry was my other guy), but they got him in round two, Tyrique Stevenson (wanted him to try him at safety).
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 07:42 pm
I hope Musgrave stays healthy. Love the potential, but 20 games in 4 years is concerning.
Jayden Reed isn't out of left field if you know where to look. I covered him during this draft cycle.
We know Brian's threshold is 8.80. only a handful of guys in this class meet that.
MooPack
April 28, 2023 at 05:19 pm
42. TE Darnell Washington
He’s been my TE1 from the start. Packers visit. He could fall to the Packers, but there are three teams with TE needs ahead of them. Lions at #34, Rams at #36, and Saints at#40. Not to mention teams that could jump ahead. I think the Lions will take Mayer. I hope they do. All I hear is excuses for his athletic ability and why he dropped. Blah, blah, blah. No thanks. That leaves Washington, Luke Musgrave, Tucker Kraft, and Sam LaPorta as the next four. If the Packers want to ensure they get D. Wash, they’ll need to move to #33(Cardinals) or #35(Colts). I think either of those teams could take a trade down. To do so the Packers are going to have to give up their #116 in the 4th. Personally, I’d do it. Gute has a history of doing it. We shall see. Either way I still see them getting another TE later like Josh Whyle or Zack Kuntz to with whomever they get from those mentioned.
45. WR Jonathan Mingo or Rashee Rice. Rice was a visit and my top WR available. Mingo is rated higher, but I think Rice is rated too low. He may be 3rd rd, but I’d be happy with either. JSN said in his draft interview the Packers are definitely looking for a WR. Let’s hope it’s soon.
78. Cursed round could go anywhere. I like S/CB Riley Moss, S Jartavius Martin, DL Jacqueline Roy, DL Zach Pickens, LB/S Marte Mapu, RB Roschon Johnson, OT Blake Freeland, OG Braeden Daniels, OG Nick Saldiveri
TKWorldWide
April 28, 2023 at 10:40 pm
So, GB passed on him TWICE.
Tells us all we need to know as to their evaluation of him.
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 10:55 pm
Technically, they passed on him thrice....
Towards the beginning of the 3rd Round, Tom Pelissero and Matt Miller leaked that the reason Washington slid was because of a medical evaluation. I'm going to go on a hunch that they only recently got that news tonight from their sources inside teams' war rooms.
It's an oxymoron to me....the Packers draft a guy they didn't talk to extensively (on record) who had a well-documented injury history.
They passed on a guy they talked to extensively on record who previously had no established history for injuries.
But that's the draft folks.
Bear
April 28, 2023 at 06:13 pm
20 years counted.
According to Pro Football Reference, most drafted players are busts. the only problem with their system is they don’t take into account the round they where picked. But anyway…
16.7% don’t even end playing for the drafting team (20 years average) 37% are considered ‘useless’, or busts. 5.3% are ‘poor’. Busts such as Jamarcus Russell are here.
So 69% are ‘poor’ or worst.
10.5% average
12.3% good 6.8% great 1% legendary
That gives 20.1% good. 2 out of 10.
StarrtoRodgers
April 28, 2023 at 06:28 pm
In sum, the Packers would have been fine and better off choosing Jaxon Smith Njigba with the 13th pick and then choosing a tight end with pick #43 and fine adding an edge rusher with pick #45, the 2nd of their 2 second round picks, or even selecting an edge in the third round. The Packers need offensive play makers more than an premier edge rusher - which I don't think they got with Van Ness.
Hopefully the Packers get tight end Darnell Washington at 43 and a wide receiver at 45 and another wide receiver at 78.
None of the 14 Packer Cheese Head TV writers chose Van Ness as their first pick - 5 made the most logical choice of Jaxon Smith Njigba, which was also the choice I had written several times. .
12 out of 14 of the Packer Cheese Head TV writers had the Packer choosing offense and
15 of the 31 picks in the first round were offense, including 10 at the skill positions: 3 QBs, 2 RBs, 1 TE, and 4 WRs.
In the Packers last 12 drafts, 11 times Brian and Thompson before him, picked defense with the 1st choice - only the pick of Love was an offense 1st pick.
Beyond the illogical choice of defense again, when Brian has been destroying the offense's weapons - loss of Davante, MVS, Lazard, Tonyan, Lewis, Cobb - with such a deep draft for edge rushers, couldn't Green Bay have traded down into the first round and picked up another pick, maybe a 2nd rounder and still drafted a good edge rusher?
Given Packers faux "Salary Cap Hell" Propaganda to help get rid of the longest tenured Packer and the main reason the Packers were even in the playoffs 11 of the last 15 years, pressing needs from this draft were 1) receivers for Love and 2) an edge rusher and some might say 3) safety and 4) a QB as a backup - or alternative - to Love should Jordan be a failure.
Was Lukas Van Ness even the best choice at Edge rusher , which is what the Packers needed?
Is Van Ness even an "edge rusher"?
NFL Draft Buzz had Van Ness as the 5th ranked defensive lineman behind Jalen Carter (1st d lineman, 4th overall, drafted 9th by the Eagles at ), Myles Murphy(2nd d lineman, 6th overall, drafted 28th by the Bengals),, Bryan Bresee (3rd d llneman, 19th overall, drafted 29th by the Saints) , and Calijah Kancey (4th d lineman, 21st overall), and ranked 26th overall.
At Edge Rusher NFL Draft Buzz ranks Van Ness as the 5th ranked player behind Will Anderson (1st edge rush, 2nd overall, drafted 3rd by the Texans), Myles Murphy (2nd edge rush, 6th overall, drafted 29thh by the Bengals), Tyree Wilson (3rd edge rusher, 11th overall, drafted 7th by the Raiders), Nolan Smith (4th edge rusher, 20th overall, drafted 30th by the Eagles)
The Packers would have been fine and better off choosing Jaxon Smith Njigba with the 13th pick and then choosing a tight end with pick #43 fine adding an edge rusher with pick #45, the 2nd of their 2 second round picks, or even selecting an edge in the third round. The Packers need offensive play makers more than an premier edge rusher - which I don't think they got with Van Ness.
After Nolan Smith for edge rusher there still was or is Will McDonald (6th edge, 39 overall) , BJ Qjulari (7th edge, 41 overall), Keion White (8th edge, 48th overall, , Isaiah Foskey (9th edge, 49th overall), Felix Anudike-Uzomah (10th edge, 51st overall), drafted 31st by the Chiefs), Adetomiwa Adebawore (11th edge, 52nd overall) , Derick Hall (12th edge, 56th overall), Andre Carter (13th edge, 69th overall) , Drew Sanders (14th edge, 70th overall), Byron Young (15th edge, 76h overall), Zach Harrison (16th overall, 80th overall), Nick Herbig,(17th edge, 84th overall) and my pick USC's Tuli Tuipulotu (18th ranked Edge, 95th overall) - who led the Nation in sacks with 13 and had 22 tackles for a loss in 2022 - in the 2nd or 3rd round after the Packers had secured a WR (had hoped Jaxon Smith-Njigba) and TE. Darnell Washington.
Or is Van Ness neither a D lineman or a edge rusher, but an outside/inside "tweener" DE/DT as Gutekunst in his interview seems to think the Packers are going to use Van Ness inside and outside?
Do the Packers need a jack of all trades "tweener" and is it realistic to think Van Ness can excel inside as a pass rusher and run stopper?
And Van Ness' coming in 24th among Edge Rushers in the bench press with 17 reps - relative to Rashan Gary's 26 reps in 2019 - is NOT due to Van Ness arm length as Ven Ness 34 inch am length is shorter than Gary's 34 and 1/8 inch arms and Keion White with the same 34 inch arms did 30 reps, coming in tied for 2nd.
No excuse for Van Ness' 31 inch vertical leap either vs. Rashan Gary's 38 inch vertical.
This interview of Lukas Van Ness though is interesting because I think it is the PRE DOMINANT REASON that Brian chose Van Ness::
https://www.hawkcentral.com/videos/sports/college/iowa/football/2022/09/...
Brian sure got what he wanted in one way - he got a young, relatively ignorant, malleable, company man, a yes man, that is going to follow orders, not think or question much. A TRUE "COMPANY MAN" and Order Taker and OBEDIENT YES MAN who will ALWYAYS stick to the Company Line SCRIPT.
Brian (and Russ too I am sure) is intimidated - intellectually and other wise - by veterans that have been around the block and the know the game of football much better than Brian does and also know the business side.
Brian clearly from his words and body language views the VETERAN players as THE ENEMY.
It was clear early that Murphy was put in a tough spot with GM Ted Thompson - who like Murphy had played for years in the NFL and knew his way around the block - sudden terminal illness diagnosis. Mark did not see Brian or Russ Ball as having the skills or presence or gravitas to fill Ted Thompson's position as GM, so the divided their duties and put Lafleur at the same level in the Packer organizational chart, all reporting to Murphy.
The more you watch and listen to Brian, not only his actions, but words and body language you see why Murphy made the choice he did in 2018 to divide up responsibilities and have Lafleur and Ball AND Brian report directly to him. .
From the start Brian was insecure in his position as GM and viewed experienced solid and star veteran players and leaders in the locker room as his enemies, especially Aaron Rogers.
And in Brian's early choices of Jaire in 2018, as good as he is, rather than offensive playmaking receivers like tight end Hayden Hurst or wide receivers DJ Moore or Calvin Ridley, and Rashan with the 12th pick rather than trading up for TE TJ Hockenson or trading down for TE Noah Fant, WR Marquise Brown, WR N'Keal Harry, WR Deebo Samuel, WR AJ Brown, WR Mecole Hardman, and especially Love rather than trading up for Justin Jefferson or staying in place and drafting Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman Jr.,Brian spited Aaron and spited the Packers and spited the Packer fans.
With Ted terminally ill and sick in 2017 - and not functioning well probably much earlier:
"Late in the 2017 season, Mark Murphy and I had a conversation about my health and future with the Packers," he said. "At that time, we mutually agreed that it was in the best interests of myself and the organization to step away from my role as general manager. In consultation with team physician Dr. John Gray, I began a complete health evaluation that has included second opinions over the last year from the Medical College of Wisconsin, the Mayo Clinic and the UT Southwestern Medical Center.
"I have been diagnosed with an autonomic disorder. I feel that it’s important to mention that based on the test results and opinions of medical specialists, they feel that I do not fit the profile of someone suffering from chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)."
the 2017 draft - with the Packers with pick #29 and ignoring TJ Watt (picked 30th by the Steeler) or an offensive playmaker (TE Njoko, WR Zay Jones, WR Curtis Samuel, RB Dalvin Cook) - and trading down 2 slots to pick Kevin King - and then picking Josh Jones in the 2nd round with pick #61 with Ju Ju Smith Schuster being taken net by the Steelers, has Brian's fingerprints all over it.
Brian is a contrarian, in his actions and the source of that contrary behavior is worrisome as it seems to be based on Brian's insecurities.
When the players and fans anyone that is logical thinker, think through the situation and make their wishes publicly known, Brian does the opposite. And if a player or fan or anyone QUESTIIONS, Brian, with his youth and inexperience as a GM is magnified in his REACTIONARY and impulsive actions.
I view Brian as A SPITEFUL and insecure GM that is in over his head
All you have to do is go back and listen to the various Packer Press Conference interviews of Aaron and Brian - this year go listen to the January 8, 2023 Rodgers press conference following the Lions game, then listen to Brian's press conference on January 13, February 28th and Aaron Rodgers appearance on Pat McAfee from January through February 2023 and then Brian March 28th and April 24, and Aaron and Brian on April 26th. .
For any TRUE Packer Fan - those who, unlike the 31 Billionaire Parasite NFL owners, purchase Packer Share wanting to help the team knowing full well that that not only aret they not going to profit, but they are also not going to ever get their money back - it is VERY IMPORTANT to listen to the actual press conferences and interviews, NOT the Media's reporting of them, as the NFL Media is owned by the NFL and its 31 Billionaire Owners' talking heads.
Rodgers EXCELLENCE hid Packer Management's shortcomings and insecurities in Brian and incompetence in the case of Brian and Russ and now we are going to see the realities as the next 4 years of Aaron Rodgers contract - hopefully the Jets/Giants disastrous artificial turf (still artificial turf despite the Billionaires changes this year) does spell Aaron's non contact leg injuries or end as it has so many other NFL players - and Jordan's time as starter with the Packers play out.
Now Brian knows that his drafting of a wide receiver, running back or tight end, in the first round, for Jordan's first year as a starter - WHICH IS THE LOGICAL THING TO DO - will be perceived CORRECTLY as Brian having been SCREWING the longest tenured Packer - AND THE PACKER TEAM AND THEIR FANS - over the last several years.
Now Love gets screwed too.
golfpacker1
April 29, 2023 at 07:50 am
I was wondering when you would shit on this thread with your Rodgers love fest. Give it up. "Live in the now man."
stockholder
April 28, 2023 at 10:30 pm
You missed the boat. -
Next year -
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 10:51 pm
Did I?
2 out of the 3 players drafted tonight I've covered. If you need the links I can provide them.
stockholder
April 28, 2023 at 11:25 pm
Links? I just saw Kraft.
But in your evaluations of talent.
Would you really have taken the Tes and Wr?
Weren't there really better players, and more
talented ? At the time of the selections?
That would have been a better Choice.
So if you keep trading back for a WR.
Why not just take JSN.?
Was a second TE needed?
JosephR
April 28, 2023 at 11:55 pm
Reed was given my "Gem" label here:
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/josephs-gems-the-jewels-of-the-senior-bowl...
I absolutely would have taken 2 TEs. I mentioned that on the Live Stream. With the hindsight of Washington having a knee issue with his medical evaluation, this makes perfect sense for Gute and myself. Would I have picked Musgrave? No. I would have waited for Kuntz, Mallory, Whyle, or Taylor, especially given that there are 9 selections tomorrow. But yes, absolutely 2 TEs out of this Draft Class.
I believe I wrote that this Draft Class would be greater than the sum of its parts. I'm not one to pat myself on the back, but I think I nailed that prediction in regards to probably the best strategy for Gutekunst and the Packers.
Find that here: https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/top-trade-down-partners-for-the-packers-255
Day 2 was "shooter's preference". Evaluations were going to be all over the place because this Draft Class is kinda "meh" but still has lots of good meat. By my evaluation Michael Wilson was the best WR on the board Day 2, but he didn't hear his name called to late Round 3, it is what it is. Rashee Rice, who I thought would have the edge over Reed got passed up too. But like I and Nagler said the Packers love Senior Bowl guys; Reed was there, Rice was not. Perhaps the Senior Bowl was all they needed to see out of Reed....or maybe Rice showed them something during the visit that turned them off, we'll never know probably.
I think the fans are WAY too hung up on JSN. He's a very good WR. Is he a generational talent? Definitely not, that's why he went 20th Overall. But again, this Draft has a lot of "very good" guys. But top-tier talent, at least for now without the benefit of hindsight is few and far in between. Reed, Kraft, and Musgrave equal more to me than JSN alone. Especially given that two of these players offer value in the run game and possibly special teams where JSN does not.
Trading back was necessary due to the fact that this team has so many holes on the roster. Take JSN? Great. But you still need possibly 2 edge rushers, 2 tight ends, 2 defensive backs, an offensive tackle, and possibly a kicker.....that's 8 selections. JSN doesn't do anything for a defense. Could he extend drives to keep the defense off the field? Sure. But in a tight game in the 4th quarter the defense is going to have to ball out. Van Ness and whoever joins him in this Draft Class tomorrow will help in that department.
Honestly, I'm appalled. The Packers spent all their Day 2 picks on pass catchers and everyone is still crying about how they'll go 7-10 next year. I'm really looking forward to how this turns out.
HawkPacker
April 29, 2023 at 05:28 am
"The Packers spent all their Day 2 picks on pass catchers and everyone is still crying about how they'll go 7-10 next year." I do not think that the Packers will do all that great next year but hope I am wrong. I think that these players will take a year or two to really help us which is normal. Plus our QB is new. We can't expect him to lead us next year to the promised land but we should get a very good idea as to how much he can help us in future years. It should be fun next season.
stockholder
April 29, 2023 at 06:45 am
Even I predicted 2 to 3 TEs in a mock.
But we really only needed 1 real good one.
I had Kuntz in one before the combine. Late.
So who are your DL to replace Lowrey and Reed.
Shouldn't that have been a priority?
golfpacker1
April 29, 2023 at 08:21 am
Wow what an interesting 2 rounds last nite was. I am ecstatic that we traded back twice and got 2 more picks that we can take some more swings or move up for someone we like, I do wish one of those would have been a 4th rounder though. We could steal someone there. Like Matt Landers.
Can you believe the Niners spending a 3rd round pick on a kicker. Thats the luxury of being one of the top teams and having a strong roster. I saw someone picking him in the 6th, not the 3rd. Ryland the kicker from Maryland is still out there and he is close to Moody, maybe better on kickoffs.
I am still in shock on the Jaden Reed pick. I didn't consider him because of the Packers size "Requirements". Especially with Tillman still available. Reading up on him now I see he is a strong receiver, 4.37 40 fast, can play in multiple spots, and a big one being he is an electric kick returner. I am hoping for Matt Landers and Elijah Higgins later to complete the WR position room. Xavier Hutchinson is a really good WR that will go quick in the 4th.
Wow on getting 2 top 5 TEs. Way to go Packers FO. Getting Kraft after Musgrave sort of screws up mu hopes of drafting Josh Whyle, but Kraft is going to be a stud and Musgrave will surprise everyone who hated on him. Maybe we get Durham-Purdue or Sims-Baylor and the TE position group is rebuilt too. What a great draft it is becoming.
D-tackle is a problem in this draft and I hope the Packers have somebody up ther sleeve that will help us. The stinking Bears scored 2 of the best last nite and there doesn't appear to be much left. I yelled when Brodric Martin came off the board as he was my DT crush. There is a big run stopper from Michigan State that is still a possibility.
I don't know what the GB plan is for Safety in this draft. I wanted Battle all along, but Johnson and Skinner are both there for a short while. Maybe we pick one of Johnson-Ia State, Owens-Houston, Taylor-Ok State, or Scott from Cal. Or a late cut FA Safety if they are cheap. Taylor Rapp was my favorite and he signed for $1.7 million. Bummer.
Does anyone know if GB now has more cap room after the Rodgers contract redo? I read in 2 articles we might have gained $7 million to $14 million for this year. Any truth to it?