My Feelings About The Green Bay Packers Have Not Changed
After all of the drama of the last week and a half, my feelings about the Packers have not changed. Last year, I felt the team was headed in the right direction and ended up a year ahead of schedule. They gave us an amazing 13-3 season filled with a ton of nail biting, exciting, and memorable games. The Packers season culminated in a home playoff win in the divisional round against the eternal nemesis Seattle Seahawks which was really all we could have hoped for. A win in San Francisco and ultimately a 5th Super Bowl would have been the icing on the cake but it was still a great year and a step in the right direction.
Heading into the offseason this was the premise; find the pieces that will win the Packers two more games while positioning yourself to re-sign Kenny Clark, David Bakhtiari, and possibly (hopefully but unlikely) Aaron Jones. In order to do this, the Packers said goodbye to veteran right tackle Brian Bulaga, Iowa and ILB Blake Martinez, replacing them with Rick Wagner and Christian Kirksey to fill their needs and keep a favorable cap number.
In the draft, Gutekunst and LaFleur went in a controversial direction and decided to draft Aaron Rodgers replacement, Jordan Love in the first round. This sent Packer Nation off of its axis, and for good reason, as Love is considered to be a high risk, high reward, two year project that could potentially give the Packers another ten years of solid quarterback play. I will be honest and admit that I didn't like the pick or the message that the Love selection sent (looking and moving towards the future when you were one game away from the Super Bowl) but I give Gutekunst and LaFleur credit for having the boldness to identify their future quarterback and trade up to get their guy.
Despite your feelings on the Love pick the argument can be made that Gutekunst and LaFleur hit a homerun with both continuing to build the infrastructure of their offensive scheme and continuing to rebuild and add depth to their roster. On offense the Packers solidified the fact that they will be a run first team that will try and control the game by pounding their opponents into the ground and take shots in the play action game. I think A.J Dillon is an athletic freak who will supplement the already dominate running game and Josiah Deguara will play off of Marcedes Lewis and create lanes for the running backs, and catch out of the backfield and in the flats. Finally, the Packers put themselves in a position to add tremendous value in the sixth round by drafting three potential future starters on the offensive line in Jon Runyan Jr, Jake Hanson, and Simon Stepaniak.
The Packers also drafted value and depth on the defensive side of the ball in the later rounds by adding Kamal Martin to the mix at inside linebacker as well as Vernon Scott to the secondary at safety, and Jonathan Garvin to the front seven. These players all played meaningful roles for power conferences and hope to find a niche in Mike Pettine's scheme.
The names may be somewhat different in 2020 but I believe the Packers find themselves in exactly the same position as last season, a competitive team on the rise that will find itself in many close contests whose win and loss record will depend on dominating the time of possession, not giving up big plays, not turning the ball over, and creating turnovers. Like last season, with not much room for error, these four factors will determine whether the Packers finish the season 7-9/8-8 or 11-5/12-4. If watching years of football has taught anything it is that the difference between winning and losing is miniscule and time of possession, taking care of the ball, and creating turnovers is usually the determining factor of the outcome.
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David Michalski is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @kilbas27dave
Comments (123)
mnbadger
May 03, 2020 at 07:33 am
Thanks for helping us back off the cliff's edge. Once BG fills out the remaining holes in the roster with veteran free agents, and maybe cuts Billy T to free up some cash, we'll be back on top of the division with a puncher's chance of winning it all. Assuming AR is healthy and motivated.
Dzehren
May 03, 2020 at 09:25 am
MMBadger Billy Turner has a dead cap of $9.75 million in 2020. BT will be the day 1 starter. GUTE has brought in competition for 2021.
jannesbjornson
May 03, 2020 at 12:15 pm
Talking 2021?
Leatherhead
May 03, 2020 at 12:16 pm
You don’t sign a guy to a significant multi year contract Just to cut him a year later. What’s the purpose of creating a hole in your starting lineup just to free up cash to get somebody else.? Turner took more snaps than any other offensive lineman last year and was part of a top run-blocking offensive line. Don’t break stuff just so you can fix it.
PeteK
May 03, 2020 at 02:31 pm
Middle of the pack rushing offense (15 th in NFL) no pun intended.
Leatherhead
May 03, 2020 at 06:54 pm
13th in attempts, 15th in yards, 5th best run blocking by the metrics at footballoutsiders
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 07:07 pm
That doesn't make sense. If their o-line was so good at run blocking, wouldn't they rank higher in yards than attempts?
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 10:00 pm
Despite what McGinn wrote about Billy Turner, his play was roughly about as good as expected, maybe a tick below expectation.
I see no reason to cut Turner even without looking at his contract. He had a lot of problems picking up stunts and some but not all of that is correctable (there is a baseline somewhere) with another year in the GB system.
Since'61
May 03, 2020 at 02:20 pm
Aaron Rodgers motivation is the least of our concerns. His health is the biggest concern because it's our season.
Thanks, Since '61
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 07:47 am
The NFL states they plan to start the season on time, that puts a smile on my face:)
I think we all agree this draft will go down as one of the most surprising of all. The Love pick, even thou I like it now, had me falling out of my chair. The next day with number 2 & 3 I was prepared for that big name we all wanted, again disappointed or more appropriately surprised.
After deep analysis, I could see their plan and whether I agree with it or not doesn’t matter, but what I determined was I give Gutey credit for having the courage to follow his plan regardless of the known criticism he would receive because it didn’t follow the pundits mock draft order. I think part is who they might’ve wanted were picked already. Sure, I question whether trading down would make sense in either round 2 or 3, that’s all part of analyzing this to death. It is easy to pick holes in his drafting, or anyone’s for that matter, but that is pointless because it is an unknown.
Gutey’s courage showed last year by FA spending spree that I knew If 3 out of 4 didn’t perform would put Packers in SC trouble. So far it worked and I give Gutey credit for very good player evaluation. He’s not afraid to take calculated risk and put his future At risk which I admire.
In the end, we must trust Gutey and hope for the future.
Ferrari-Driver
May 03, 2020 at 01:13 pm
I hate your post but gave you a thumbs up because I fear you are more right than wrong.
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 03:36 pm
Gute did well with picking up the Smith's and Amos. The problem started after getting to the Conference Championship and everyone realizing by the results the holes still needing attention. Problem #1 freeing up cap space. With Lindsley coming up on a new contract in 2021 we should have either traded him for a decent draft pick or cut him and Taylor outright. Savings to cap 13 million. No WR's were available to pick up this offseason so we should have used the cap space on the DL reinforcements = a run stuffing NT and double down with a better DT or DT and better than average CB. This would have narrowed our draft needs and Gute could have moved up 10-15 spots for a top 3 WR. That would have gutted a lot of draft picks but we would have a legit #2 WR. The QB pick was as Gute said a depleted WR run on draft picks led to QB pick. If you're only a couple needs away from a Super Bowl return you make the picks and if possible double down on them. I expected Gute to choose a QB in 2 yrs.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 03:58 pm
Yes your choice, but your not the GM of the Green Bay Packers. PFF does not apply in his world.... (Just being direct here)
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 04:29 pm
Yes, but I am right. Not everyone should be a GM either. Has nothing to do with PFF. It''s common sense. You have a problem, how do you address it other than doing absolutely nothing. Patrick is ready to replace Lindsley and did a better job moving people when he was given the chance. Jenkins is also a C and a really good one. That was a Gute pick. He is not totally screwed up but he had a way to relieve cap space , replace cheaper personnel and address a key DL weakness who were draft picks that have never taken the second step. That's being direct and honest if you can't see it....cant Flacken help you.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 04:51 pm
I know I can't. My point is very simple. We all second guess, that is a luxury we all have on this blog. Not a luxury Gute has. He fails, it's his job. And he has the most important and (in many ways) public job in the organization. And the understanding of THAT, would go a long way for you me and others who play fantasy GM from time to time.
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 05:27 pm
I guess you could say second guess after the fact, but it is not as if I was not hoping these things were not addressed prior to the draft. In reality sense it is a game we love and enjoy and is painful also. I make multimillion dollar decisions every day on machines that cost that much and involve peoples lives and livelihood along with others I don't even know. I troubleshoot and determine course of action every day. It's how I'm wired. Football though a game is no different just different results with known deficiencies.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 06:20 pm
Hey, no problem. I should have been clearer in my first comment. Personally, I like to know how the board fell. The Love pick really came out of nowhere for me too.
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 11:23 pm
I'm sure you were watching all the WR's flying off the board early as I was. I think Gute would have had to move up 10 draft positions for a top level WR like jefferson. I don't think he was willing to do that with hardly any cap space and not being able to fill more positions in the offseason. The QB pick was a consolation. I don't think after losing an OT in FA he wanted to rock the boat with moving Lindsley. A sound move but it really limits everything else that needed to get done and couldn't. I'm like were all in, let's GO!!!! Well we do need another QB before long. This kid Love does have a heart wrenching story and I am praying he is blessed and motivated, and the Lord has given him a wealth of skills and abilities to work with. I wish him and Rodgers and our entire team the best. It has been quite some time since I have seen Rodgers laser focused. Bears game when he got his knee hurt then starts surgically disecting them. Maybe AR kicks it in gear all season. What a hoot that would be.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 10:07 pm
No, Lucas Patrick had 5 bad runs in 124 snaps per SIS DataHub and McGinn. Anything in double digits is bad for a starter, and Patrick extrapolates to a historic 40. That's why Patrick got a 48 grade from PFF. Unless more snaps would improve this aspect of his game, he is not playable as a starter for any team, and certainly not one that wants to run and pound Dillon between the tackles.
GB knew that when they signed him for peanuts and Patrick and his agent knew this when they signed it. Players don't sign for $1.27M if they are starting caliber centers.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 08:19 am
The Packers better be right about Love. If not, this draft is an F. If they're right, it's an A+. Plain and simple. They reached for Love and lost ammo to trade up for a round 2 WR as a result. Reached for Dillon when all their guys were gone and reached for Degaura to get the Juschyk pick (however you spell it) in round 3. Day 3 is a complete crapshoot - most starters in the NFL come from the first 4 rounds. So for our starters, we got a QB replacement a couple of years early. A bruising RB with long speed but little agility and dubious pass game versatility. And an H back/backup TE/FB/whatever. FACT: This offense has NO ONE to threaten deep other than a former 5th round pick who can't run the right routes, can't separate off the LOS and has questionable hands. Great. What's going to keep defenses honest after Davante? Jones outside running routes? Sternberger's development and ability to beat safeties and ILBs?
We'd better all hope so.
And then we did nothing in free agency because we didn't have the cap. Gute and MLF had better be right. Because it's their nuts on the line. And it should be.
Every hole they had in their starting 22 last year, with the possible risk of Kirksey being an upgrade in coverage over Blake (if he stays healthy) is there. Wagner is worse than Bulaga. And what's worse is that the worst part of our team (WR, DT2) is not appreciably better and perhaps worse.
This is a team that is changing identity in 2020, and the identity switch becoming successful is the only hope at 2020 improvement. This draft was about 2022 (I can't believe I just typed that with a 37-year-old franchise QB) and not 2020. The 2019 Packers got very lucky to be where it was. It was fun, but let's be real, there was a lot of luck there. Honestly, I would be shocked by any better than 11-5, and I am personally guessing 8-8 and missing the playoffs in 2020.
I hated the draft and I hated what they did in free agency. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not going to engage in groupthink because that's what I want to happen. I have a brain and I'm not going to be a fanboy. No offense meant to those who are changing their minds rapidly on the offseason, but to me, it looks like a whole bunch of confirmation bias and groupthink twisted together in a shitty knot.
Downvote away.
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 08:03 am
I guess you don’t believe any of the current roster won’t improve with another year of experience, training and knowledge of Pettine’s D or MLF’s O. That’s narrow minded thinking.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 08:13 am
No, I do. And that is where the improvement MIGHT come. Especially on offense. I don't see us being any better on defense this year. Mayyyybe a bit because Savage an Kirksey are better versions of what we had in 2019. The rest is the same personnel.
The other thing to remember is that we had insane injury luck and an insane record in 1 score games last year. That won't happen again this year. This was a 10-6 wild card team wrapped up in a 13 win box last year. Just like the Bears in 18 and the Vikings in 17. Regression in those areas is inevitable.
At WR, no. I don't have much hope. Yep. Funchess is better than GMo. Yawn. Who knows what we have with post injury ESB, and MVS was a turd down the stretch last year. They're 5th round picks. The ONLY reason they're being given a 3rd year is because we have NOTHING else. Like I said: Yawn.
So, we're counting on youth to step up at TE and RB and doing a whole lot of 22 of 30 personnel. Ok. That could work... with no injuries.
It had better. Because that's the one punch in this offensive personnel that has any juice.
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 08:20 am
We might look at success differently. I enjoy watching my favorite team the Packers making the playoffs and yes, I hope for that SB. I don’t expect a 13-3 season because of some of the reasons you state, but that doesn’t mattEr to me, as I don’t use that as a measuring stick. That said, I’m still am very happy if they make the playoffs most years and once or twice a decade they reach the pinnacle.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 08:45 am
fair
Ds300916
May 03, 2020 at 10:38 am
I largely agree with your assessment. But honestly I’d rather have a 3rd year 5th round WR who’s at least had time in the offense than BG taking another WR. Did I want a 1st round WR? Absolutely. But going back over the previous few drafts it’s clear that first year WRs rarely contribute. Most of the Packers success from WR has happened from an internal guy making that leap their 2nd-3rd year. I remember when we all wanted davante Adams cut. I think of the group MVS, EQ, Lazard, and evening Darius Shepard (our preseason darling) someone will be able to step up. If (and this is a big if I admit it) funchess stays healthy he is a solid #2 WR.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 12:04 pm
That's absolutely true regarding the "jump" from year 1-3 (but especially 1-2). And I would agree with you if we had a legit #2 with some speed. We have to either trade for a vet or scrape the bargain bin or hope MVS (against the odds of a 5th round pick) figures it out this season. Otherwise, no matter how much "growth" we could talk about, they physical skills just aren't there. Not good odds.
I could try to be a ballet dancer for years and get a lot better at it. I would still suck. See what I'm saying?
Ds300916
May 03, 2020 at 12:52 pm
I did laugh at your analogy so I appreciate that. But you most likely have not been practicing ballet for your entire life, no? These guys have been playing football a long time, and a sometimes it Just takes players longer to acclimate to the pros. It’s entirely possible they don’t take that next step and next April were clamoring to draft another WR, however it’s also possible MVS/EQ/Lazard plays well. It seems clear ML isn’t planning for an offense that needs multiple 1000 yard receivers. I think between Davante and Aaron Jones we honestly just need one more capable target for this offense to take off. It might be one player, it might take contributions from all the remaining WRs. I personally think Jace Sternberger could blossom into a true weapon. The fun will be in sitting back and finding out! Again, appreciate your points above. I will gladly admit I was wrong next year if no one turns a corner, but I’m hopeful someone does.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 01:14 pm
I hope so too, Ds. I really do.
I'm a professional musician and a college professor. My whole job is to train music pros at the highest level. I don't take pleasure in saying this, but some kids just don't have the ability, even though they have the desire. The word "no" hurts a lot in the moment, but long term, "no" can sometimes be the kind response.
I am skeptical, no matter how hard they try, that a bunch of UDFA's and day 3 picks will turn into competent field tilting weapons.
PeteK
May 03, 2020 at 02:30 pm
Jennings and Cobb were solid at 40 catches, but yes even a 1st rounder is not a guarantee.
Packerpasty
May 03, 2020 at 07:27 pm
how many times do we have to hear that.."they will improve", "they'll take the next step up"...naw, most of them won't...what, are they gonna start with 'roids or something...what they are is what they are...as in Montavious Adams ...useless...
WilsonMaywick
May 03, 2020 at 08:04 am
Got your back Bearmeat.
Guam
May 03, 2020 at 08:19 am
Very accurate assessment of this offseason Bearmeat and you got an up vote from me. I wish I were more excited about the 2020 season but this draft told me that the Packers are looking longer term than 2020. We should still be a competitive team this season, but I do not see a SB happening.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 08:21 am
If we do, it'll be because everything went right. Injuries, turnovers, 1 score games, and plan A working. Because there is no plan B with this roster construction on either side of the ball.
Since'61
May 03, 2020 at 02:34 pm
Excellent point Bearmeat. At this point based on WR corps, the right side of our OLs, our TEs and ILBs I don't think that we even have a complete Plan A at this point. We just need to see where this team is at after the preseason if there is one. Stay well. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
May 03, 2020 at 08:44 am
To be honest, I thought we did really well on day three. I really like Martin and I think all are higher value than where they hit them. Garvin, the last pick, is a boom or bust type who needs to be stronger and play every down to unlock genuine talent. Classic late 7th type with upside.
I like that we brought in a number of O line types with attitude. I like that we drafted a candidate to back up Greene (and added some interesting depth in the hybrid area in UDFA).
Round 2, when viewed through the lens of the system change, makes perfect sense, and I like both of the players picked in the context. I think for us they have the potential to add real value early.
So, leaving Love out if the equation, and accepting the now obvious handing of the shaping of the O to LaFleur, I’d say we had a pretty good draft, covered all of the bases by strengthening depth and competition at every position of need except DL and WR.
DL we have bookended the draft with a waiver claim and a pickup. I did not expect big bucks there, but I do think more help than before potentially.
WR is I know the standout hole. It seems clear that they like Funchess more than some here. Beyond him, it seems clear that they are betting on 3 things;
1) That at least one of MVS, EQ and Lazard will make a jump this year. That certainly is not unreasonable
2) that other pass catchers will produce more; TE/HB/RB
3) that the run game will be more varied and as a result make it easier for the receivers to get open.
It works well for the 49ers, now we get to see if LaFleur can match and eventually surpass them. It should also help our D by having them get more time between spells on the field.
Well, that’s how I see the thinking. In that context I like the draft. My questions lie more in the direction of us LaFleur going to be good. He got brutally whipped twice by his mentor last year. He has to show not only that he can emulate but enhance and surpass others. We will see.
My questions are less about the picks and other moves than the overall wisdom of the direction of the team and whether LaFleur is the man who can run this type of system better than others.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 09:01 am
I like your last paragraph. It is about the wisdom of the direction the team is moving. And we knew that the air it out days were numbered when MLF got the gig. That's fine. But the guy who tries to outsmart the room usually ends up looking like a fool. The system fits are obvious. The value of those picks compared to where they could have gotten them on day 1/2 is the real question. We'll never know, but most opposing GMs are not unhappy that GB has moved in the direction it did, and that's not good for Packer fans.
Day 3 value - one big old meh. Every team loves their day 3 value every year. But if you come back 3 years later, usually those day 3 and UDFAs are gone. One per draft ends up starting and one every 3 years ends up getting a 2nd contract with their drafted team. Not high odds.
Coldworld
May 03, 2020 at 09:28 am
The addition of attitude and body types on the OL and In The ILB/hybrid area was a need and numbers raise the hope of a hit, which we need badly.
Based on what you wrote, your problem is not primarily with the draft as such but with the wisdom of the direction that shaped it and whether LaFleur can deliver. If so we are in agreement.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 09:40 am
YEP. When all else fails, Gute (rightly) throws numbers at a problem.
jannesbjornson
May 03, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Barnes might surprise some people as a cover ILB.
greengold
May 03, 2020 at 10:59 am
I mean, dude... where do you get this shit?
“but most opposing GMs are not unhappy that GB has moved in the direction it did, and that's not good for Packer fans.” - Bearmeat
You can’t just make stuff up...
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 11:26 am
https://theathletic.com/1783977/2020/05/01/execs-unfiltered-on-every-nfl...
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 11:28 am
If you want to go right back to: "In (insert our GM at the moment) we trust" like most around here while we frittered away ARod's career in the 2010's, be my guest.
I will not be joining you. I want my team to win, but I'm not going to call a rhino an octopus because 1265 tells me to.
greengold
May 03, 2020 at 10:50 am
I have to disagree with you, almost completely.
I’ll give you that if Jordan Love doesn’t work out according to plan in 3-4 years, this draft has potential to be a bust, as that R1 & R4 could have been utilized much differently.
However, Gutekunst and his staff have begun to show some patterning in the early rounds with regards to focus: THE FUTURE.
Last year, Gutes used the #12 overall pick at OLB, a position he LOADED for immediate help in FA with the Smith Bros. Rashan Gary was chosen for the future at a premiere position, one of THE most highly sought after and coveted positions in the game at EDGE, with a plan to allow him to learn from the best in the business.
The Jordan Love pick was nearly identical in this regard. They knew the stakes, and used additional draft capital to secure Love for the future of the Packers.
The next 3 selections were for the NOW, and all 3 address needs for this team that many agreed were truly urgent.
Gutekunst didn’t do “nothing in FA” this year. He addressed every need, EVERY NEED, utilizing the route of BEST VALUE, most bang for the Packers’ buck. He just didn’t throw ALL of the money GB had at 1 splash player. He really began with WR Reggie Begelton, the CFL All-Star. Watch his tape. The guy is pure slot, OWNS the middle, tough as F, great hands & routes. QB best friend material if I ever saw it.
Kirksey is a stud who had his greatest success under Mike Pettine. Ricky Wagner is not what you say, at all. His pass pro is not like Bulaga, just a notch below though. However, his outside zone blocking is FAR superior. He’s got both the speed to get outside and incredible instincts to search and destroy at the 2nd level. This is no joke.
Add in the Willis and Davis signings a day prior to thr draft, and your argument has no legs to stand on. I didn’t even mention Funchess...
If you’re going to say anything about injuries and guarantees, there sure as F are no guarantees with high priced FAs who appease masses for the high profile splash.
With all due respect, Bearmeat, Gutes used extremely limited resources there to add great talents of lesser $ value, and assumed his measured risk.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 12:03 pm
....."Measured risk" You're using that AND talking about a CFL "star" in the same post. Just want to point that out. I mean, I'd laugh. But all I can do is shake my head and hope for the best.
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 02:00 pm
" However, Gutekunst and his staff have begun to show some patterning in the early rounds with regards to focus: THE FUTURE."
The problem I have with this draft and off-season is the inconsistency of approach between 2018, 2019 and 2020. The FA moves, the ARod extension (2018, yes, I know), the drafting...it parameterized a window for the Packers around ARod's remaining time in GB. This seemed to be set up as a 3-year window to win the whole thing. The Savage pick, even Gary could be understood in that lens.
Then, enter 2020 and the moves in FA and the draft now become long-term? Wait a minute...you just spent your cap down and set up a team that will self-dismantle as Amos, the Smiths, Turner and ARod come due or become untenable cap-wise. The ability to retain key OL pieces, Clark, King, etc., have been spent away. So points of strength or key players in the short term are going to need to walk, and it's unclear how the remaining players pick up the slack.
Is it about the future? Is it about the window? We can talk about it being both, but it really feels like neither...and that's unsettling, because it leaves us to wrestle with the notion that it's possible Gute doesn't know either.
Guam
May 04, 2020 at 07:23 am
One of the most insightful posts I've seen about this muddle. Well done Dobber!
Lare
May 03, 2020 at 03:39 pm
My thoughts exactly, nice post Dobber. Some of Gutekunst's moves are concerning.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 04:43 pm
I HAVE THE ANSWER! (Well, I think I understand what's going on but... it requires an understanding of the Packer history and current front office structure and the state of play and Aaron Rodgers contract... and that gets one whispers and rumorville. NOT going there… Nope Nope Nope....)
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 09:14 am
I agree with the bulk of your comment.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 10:07 am
Glad to hear that, TGR. I always make a point to read your comments and articles.
It's obvious that Gute/MLF are remaking the team in the Shanahan system. But here's the thing: You need successful downfield weapons to be able to do that. Look at TN - until they could pass the ball, they were a boring 7-9 team. SF is scary not because of their platoon of RBs, but because their front 7 is amazing and their WRs scare you deep.
GB has none of that after Adams. We have to hope that Sternberger becomes a weapon, and Jones creates matchup problems all over the field with Daegura making DCs pick their poison, and then Dillon can pound them into submission.
There is no fallback, and nothing to keep the defense from keeping 8 in the box routinely IMO.
Coldworld
May 03, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Wasn’t the fullback issue as you term it why we brought back Lewis and then signed Deguara? If we are remaking in an image then we took precisely the steps to remedy your closing source of exasperation.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 12:47 pm
Yes, we did. And still overspent draft capital to do it, while simultaneously adding no speed to the offense and no ability to stop the run to the defense.
Where is the quick strike ability that all great offenses have? Adams? Ok. Not a deep threat but an excellent WR. Good intermediate threat for sure. Jones on a LB or safety? Ok. I guess I can see that, but not on a regular basis. He is a RB first, after all.. Sternberger beating people down the seam? We all hope so, but he's shown precious little of that in his time. Let's face it: the only deep threat outside the numbers is MVS. The. Only. One. And he was garbage last year. He's a 5th round pick - not a 2nd like Davante. He was a 5th rounder for a reason. Most of those guys don't pan out. Not great odds I'd say.
How are we going to keep defenses from cheating up? The Titans and 9ers have playmakers outside the numbers. Shanny's Redskins in the early 10's did too. The mid 10's Falcons had tons of playmakers outside of the numbers. They all could make teams pay for crowding the LOS with a quick 7. We don't and can't, and that is a real problem, no matter how you slice it.
If things work out like we hope, except MVS, this will be a reliable, ball control, tough, but ultimately mediocre offense. And that's if things pan out! I have NO problem with ground-and-pound at this stage of ARod's career. What I have a problem with is no balance. We didn't have it with MM, but didn't really need it (until the playoffs) because ARod was God. And it looks like we're not going to have it the other way now.
Neither is acceptable.
And then let's talk about run defense. Our DL was Clarke and a pile of wet, stinky garbage last year. ILB was too, but at least Gute did something (albeit risky) about that one. Where's the fix there?
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 07:38 pm
" He's (MVS) a 5th round pick - not a 2nd like Davante. He was a 5th rounder for a reason. Most of those guys don't pan out. Not great odds I'd say."
I don't think the term "reach" is applicable to a 5th round pick. You're down into the depths by that point and it is all "eye of the beholder". What pundits say holds even less meaning than rounds 1-4.
So let's just say MVS was not in the group of WRs available at the time that choice was made that I would have guessed. If I remember right, he was not even on the NFL.com prospect list in their draft tracker.
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 08:08 pm
MVS was at the combine and is on their list of profiled athletes...
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marquez-valdes-scantling?id=32195641-4c14-...
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 08:25 pm
Thanks!
I guess that proves I should not trust my memory.
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 12:59 pm
Bearmeat, I would agree with you that they need that speedy, very good receiver to make the O really click to a high level. Might they still be top 15 without , probably, but that type would help be very good. Now that said, the way the draft fell, those receivers were picked prior to GB pick in round 1 & 2 according to the Packers draft chart. If I’m not mistaken Gutey stated as much so he went the route he took. Unfortunately, you cannot control the draft board as anyone knows who plays fantasy football.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 01:08 pm
You're absolutely right. That's the way it fell. And that is yet another reason why this draft turns 99% on Love. If Gute doesn't trade up for Love, they do have the ammo to get Mims or Claypool. As it is, if Love turns out to be a top 10 QB, Gute is the man and the draft is an A+. If Love can't play, the draft is an F, and Gute is fired by 2024.
There might be some speed vets that could shake loose because of the draft. I really liked the Bears signing of Ginn. Perhaps we could pry DJax away from the Eagles. Or maybe pick up a flier on Gabriel or Robinson from the Chiefs...
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 09:28 pm
"If Gute doesn't trade up for Love, they do have the ammo to get Mims or Claypool."
I like those options but they were not the only ones. They could have moved up in round 3 for Devin Duvernay.
If they just had to have Dillon and Deguara with 2 and 3, there were about 8 guys that went between that 4th and the 5th they ultimately used on Martin.
And it sure looked unnecessary to move up. The 3 trade downs in that area of the draft all saw the seller take less value on the charts. Anybody hot to get Love would have moved ahead of NE and NO. It would not have cost an arm and leg to do it.
Leatherhead
May 03, 2020 at 09:20 am
They got a franchise QB in the first round. How is that a reach? Virtually every scouting report had him as a first round pick.
Dillon was the #1 pile mover in the draft. We were 28th in short yardage. We’ll be better this year. And Deguara was the most versatile skill position player on the board when we took him..
If you’ve been paying attention, you know that me and groupthink are rarely seen together.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 12:10 pm
"They got a franchise QB in the first round. How is that a reach?"
1. Because Love was probably the most polarizing player in the draft. Half the league (maybe more) hated him.
2. Because they didn't need to trade up to get him.
3. Because the didn't NEED him. They have a franchise QB for 4 more years.
4. Fine. We got a power back. Under-reported need. Better yet, we got one with speed. He was still overdrafted.
5. Deguara - Round 6 consensus projection. They reached for fit.
I'm not saying that any one person in particular is being a moron. I'm saying that collectively, Packers fans are turning toward the company line alarmingly quickly. Part of that is because no matter what we say as fans, they're not changing (and they shouldn't, they are the pros), and part of it is that we (collectively) WANT to believe that GB killed this draft. There is your group think and confirmation bias. Many an organization, both in and outside of sports, have been felled by it before. We weren't the first and won't be the last.
The facts: Initial reports on our offseason aren't good, but we'll see how it pans out in 3 years.
Look. All three are Packers now. I hope they ball out. But that doesn't mean I have to like how/when they were selected. Let's hope Gute and Co are dead on and make me look foolish.
TarynsEyes
May 03, 2020 at 12:13 pm
" I'm saying that collectively, Packers fans are turning toward the company line"
LOL, I've been fighting this for a decade or since the infamous 1st rd selection of Nick Perry where the Company line believers began and surely became the 'Blind Optimist Group'.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 12:19 pm
You were right about Perry. But that was 8 years ago, Taryn. And you've been wrong about plenty in the interim.
Let it go.
TarynsEyes
May 03, 2020 at 03:26 pm
You couldn't tell it was support of you and leave it at that.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 04:09 pm
Really? On this blog. (heh heh heh heh.... :-)
Leatherhead
May 03, 2020 at 12:40 pm
1. Polarizing? Favre is the most polarizing player in a Packer history, Trump is the most polarizing POTUS in my lifetime. Polarizing, by itself, means nothing except there’s not a consensus groupthink.
2. Neither you, nor I, can know with certainty that Love would have been there at #30. Generally, I don’t like trade ups, but if Love is our future then a fourth round pick doesn’t seem like much of a surcharge.
3. Need? If Rodgers gets hurt, we’re gonna need him. If he doesn’t, we have a really strong financial incentive to part company in two more years....especially if we’ve got another guy ready to play.
4. Dillon was projected to be gone by #94. Given our desire to be more of a running team and given our two main backs are in the last year of their contract, it was prudent to take him when they could.
5. Reached for fit? He was the most versatile skill position player available. He can block, run, catch. He can line up as a TE, or as an Hback, or go in motion. He is reportedly tough, competitive, and football smart. How many sixth rounders bring all that to the table.
The initial reports mean little. A future starter at QB, a bell cow RB, a versatile Swiss Army knife, Funchess, Wagner. That’s a pretty decent enhancement of our offense.
I thought we’d go defense. I think we should have. But these moves are going to help our offense this year and beyond.
Bearmeat
May 03, 2020 at 01:20 pm
Look, man, if "A future starter at QB, a bell cow RB, a versatile Swiss Army knife, Funchess, Wagner. That’s a pretty decent enhancement of our offense" turns out to be what this draft actually is, Gute is a hero.
I don't think the odds are high. JMO.
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 04:19 pm
The reach is an xtra #4 pick. The reach is 2 yrs. earlier than needed. The new norm is picking a 1st round QB starting him in a year and using his low salary to fill other needs on your team with the xtra cap space and taking your shot at a Super Bowl. Green Bay is always on the slow learning curve. The other players mentioned I don't mind but I think could have been drafted a round later and probably 2 on the TE. Personally If I drafted a 2nd round RB I would have drafted the most elite runner and pass catcher with the best break away speed and best vision. Probably be a little shorter and stockier for lateral change of direction. I do believe Dillon will be good for getting the 1st dn and short yardage touchdowns though. The TE looks like he has good hands.
murf7777
May 04, 2020 at 05:44 am
When is too early, hard to tell, but I certainly can tell you when it’s too late.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 09:39 pm
" We were 28th in short yardage."
Yet another reason to disbelieve the footballoutsider rankings that had the Packers as a top 5 run-blocking OL. Top 5 blocking OL and 28th in short yardage are incompatible. It does not pass the sanity test.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 10:31 pm
I agree about Love. He was not a reach. I incorporate by reference Dobber's comment on philosophy. Love was not a fit in the window, so clearly is long term. An exception arguably should be made for potential (he isn't a franchise QB yet!) franchise QBs: almost anytime you can nab one, you probably should.
There's some room for argument in "almost" and "probably" as applied to each team. Perhaps KC with a young and great QB should not have taken Love had he dropped to them at 32. Perhaps a few other teams but not many are in that happy situation. Also teams that just used a top 10 pick to QBs.
The GM and scouts have to be on board with the evaluation. Clearly, either MN didn't think Love was going to pan out (Cousins' contract is meant to be restructured/cut/traded in 2021) or they deliberately put the window ahead of the future. Could be a combination of the two - iffy on Love like their window too much.
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 03:01 pm
We knew there was not going to be a lot done in free agency this year due to the cap. With how Rodgers is about new receivers even a number one pick is probably the 4th wr and having to move up during the year and prove himself. So you would be feeling better about 2020 because the Packers have a different wr4.
As for the run d I feel the issue is more the coaching than the personnel. So even with some new big toy taken in some alternate 2nd round, Pettine would still have them playing to stop the big pass and a pounding team will still be a mismatch for this scheme. If the scheme changes then the bodies in place can do well.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 04:02 pm
Oh come on, how can I downvote someone with the best line of the year: "Balls of Stone".... :-)
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 08:01 pm
This might be a CHTV record for total number of likes/dislikes for a single post.
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 08:43 pm
With the lockdown I have had the chance to rewatch some old games like we probably all have been doing. In one from Davante Adams's rookie season I noted that ole #17 was out there on kick return coverage. So thats probably what you could have expected from that high draft choice receiver in 2020. But at least you'd have felt better about the draft.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 10:27 pm
So I take it you did not watch the NE game from that year when Adams had 6-121 and was a huge part of that win? Or the infamous "Did Dez catch it" playoff win in Lambeau where Adams put up 7-117-1? I didn't notice him covering kicks but I darn sure noticed him catching passes.
Maybe go back to the 2011 season opener when a rook named Randall Cobb had 2 TDs in a big season-opening win over NO. His passing numbers were not all that great but he was exciting as a returner.
Gamepass won't take you back to see Jennings and Jones rookie years, which were more productive than Cobb and Adams. The best Packer WR since TT took over (IMO) was Nelson. He was the least productive as a rook. Not surprising given Jennings, Driver and Jones were ahead of him on the depth chart.
They all did take years to reach their full potential. Like any other player. 3 of 5 (Jennings, Jones and Cobb) produced more than any 2019 WR not named Adams. 2014 Adams was comparable to the 2019 bunch not named Adams. Nelson was the only one below the 2019 bunch.
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 10:49 pm
Davante Adams was on kickoff coverage and had 38 catches as a rookie. Jordy Nelson had 33 catches and was returning kicks. Randall Cobb had 25 catches and made a splash on special teams. Greg Jennings was the star of them all as a rookie and actually started 11 games and had 45 catches.
So while taking a high pick receiver would make people feel better about the draft, past history would tend to indicate it would make little difference to the team in 2020 and would actually have been a pick for the ugg dare I say it - the future. . I mean Alan Lazard had as many catches and yards as any of these guys rookie seasons with his 35 catches. He had 241 college receptions for over 3300 yards and 26 tds so why isn't he exciting enough as a prospect? Or the guy from Canada with over 220 catches and 2400 yards and 20tds in college who had 100 catches for 1400 yards in Canada last season? Or the free agent who has 5 years nfl experience, is only 25 years old and if he is over the injury of last season is an incredible steal? These guys seem a lot more able to help now if that is the goal all the fans seem to have.
I just don't buy that some rookie WR even a first round pick is the put them over the top player they need. Specially since I would expect that rookie to be probably the number 4 or 5 WR and probably playing special teams in 2020.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 11:18 pm
Oh, you think Begelton is worth discussing. I understand now.
Have a nice evening.
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 11:29 pm
And you think a bunch of other guys who have never had a catch in the NFL are what makes the Packers able to go all the way this year. My point is that there is no rookie receiver who makes this team that much better in 2020.
Have a nice evening.
scoonie_penn
May 03, 2020 at 08:10 am
Interesting... Sounds like every draft pick and a few UDFA will be making the team and contributing. Who knows maybe this batch of lower round defensive players will be better than last years group. Anyone want to take odds on which week Gary gets injured and misses at least 6 games. It will provide more cover for him.
Handsback
May 03, 2020 at 08:18 am
People tend to say Love will be the determining factor in this draft. I don't, because it was a good decision no matter how it plays out. You have to draft possible starter QBs when you get the opportunity. I thought there would be a few more years of that available...but it would be the difference of this draft verses the next two.
This year's draft hinges on one player-Dillon. If he's the Eddie Lacy that makes teams get out of two deep zones to stop the run and makes his presence felt in the 4th qtr, then that pick alone puts the Packers closer to the SB. Adding the IOL/TE will help, and a new WR would have helped....but w/o a RB that gets those hard yards it's still a passing offense with one superstar receiver.
Yes Aaron Jones had an all pro year. He's a threat running and passing, but teams never changed their defenses to stop the Packers. It was an almost dare you to beat us with Jones running the ball. Frankly....the Packers won many more games then they should have but luck counts. This next season, MLF knows better then to try and win games like they did last year. The schedule will be much tougher and teams will be prepared for Jones running. What they won't be prepared for is a battering ram that's getting yardage in chunks while another running backs slips through holes or lines up wide against a LB.
So those are my reasons for saying Dillon is the key.
Leatherhead
May 03, 2020 at 11:10 am
It’s not luck.
If you protect the ball on offense you have a very good chance of winning the game. We were the second best team in the league at protecting the ball. We won the turnover battle 9 times...all wins. We lost the TO battle against Philadelphia and SF twice. We had 10 games without a turnover.
That, my friend, isn’t luck. It’s a very good QB being conservative with the ball. It was a big advantage last year, and it’s going to be a big advantage this season.
Secondly, we were very good in the red zone on both sides of the ball. Jones has a real nose for the end zone and Rodgers can put the ball in a pretty tight window. I don’t see any reason that would change this season.
hobowilly
May 03, 2020 at 06:26 pm
Hi HB! Sure glad the scouts found Aaron Jones out of little known UTEP. I'm from Western Athletic & Mtn West lore so i'm always humbled to see these non power conference players do exceptionally well. Charlie Johnson, Roy Gerella, Don Perkins and surely one of the very best, Brian Urlacher. I'm praying GB keeps AJones and gets him wrapped up before his pricetag gets outa reach. The signing of (Marshall) Dillon should stabbilize GB's running game and provide more PA's opportunities for the incomparable Aaron Rodgers
stockholder
May 03, 2020 at 08:25 am
Interesting. But I See pressure now. The packers were a cinderella team last year. They Won and found Football fun again. Everything was positive. Outlook, Team first, For The Fans, etc. They made believers out of us again. Whatever missing pieces they needed to get. Gutey let them down. As Gutey dumps players to fit the cap. The chemistry of the team will change them. Trust will be replaced by whispers. Doubt will show it's ugly head. Finger pointing will replace confidence. All because Gutey didn't finish building the Defense. As if the stats weren't bad enough against the run. Gutey decided are All pro QB needed to look over his shoulder. Creating more pressure and frustration for #12. And while you may think he might resign certain players. Dumping them is more logical after this draft. Guteys new message to everybody: WE just can't afford You! So don't blame me, do your job. Gutey has split this team in 1/2. His draft got FFFs. He's broken the spirit of many. And to some, Green Bay has No future for them. So while many believe Gutey hit a Homerun. It's just the opposite. The Packers are a volcano. It's just a matter of time before it all blows up in Guteys Face.
PeteK
May 03, 2020 at 08:58 am
Reminder, we still have Rogers, Jones, Adams , Bak, Jenkins, Smith bros, Clark ,Alexander ,Amos. How many teams have very good players like that at key positions?
Packerpasty
May 03, 2020 at 07:28 pm
yup...you got it..
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 08:17 pm
The football player that is not looking over his shoulder to beat out the guy angling to take his job in not much of a football player, In all likelihood. I don't buy into the notion that the Packers locker room is a bunch of divas that get demoralized over draft picks not doing enough to help them. That's a fan thing, not a player thing. If that was the case, they would not have sniffed the playoffs, much less made the NFC CG.
I hope and pray that everybody that walked off the field in SF was thinking to themselves, "man, I want another crack at those guys. I think our 53 are better than their 53 and I'd love to prove it". We, as fans, have the right to believe differently--that they do need better players. I doubt that is a popular opinion inside the locker room.
Rosco
May 03, 2020 at 09:01 am
Could not agree more !!! Great article !!
Lare
May 03, 2020 at 10:51 am
IMO, injuries will play a big part in how the 2020 season plays out for the Packers. Both for them and opposing teams.
NickPerry
May 03, 2020 at 12:00 pm
I'm with you David, nothing did or will ever change my mind about my feelings when it comes to the Green Bay Packers. I've celebrated, cheered, screamed, or even wanted to throw my TV through the window at times, (sometimes in the same quarter of the game) but my fandom has never wavered.
I know I'm not alone here either, lots of us "Older" Packers fans post here. Hell I remember asking my Dad how the heck could the Packers be so great one year (1967) and bad the next (1968). The answer was simple, Vince Lombardi.
I remember that 1971 team with OROY John Brockington and the 1972 team with DROY Willie Buchanon. That 72 team went to the Playoffs with Scott Hunter as their QB. Now THAT was painful Quarterbacking to watch folks. But how awesome it was to live in Minneapolis and have the Packers go to the Playoffs and not the Vikings. The success was short-lived BUT I still loved my Packers!
Like EVERY draft before I've found the good in this draft too. Whether or not I agree with the players Gutey drafted doesn't matter. I begin to look for the positives each player can bring the Packers not just this next season but seasons after.
The Packers now have a better backup QB and while it's not what you're looking for with your top pick when Aaron Rodgers is still pretty friggen good, in 3 or probably 4 years the Packers have anther good opportunity at continued excellence from the QB position. Just look at what Matt Ryan did with MLF as his QB coach and hasn't come close to matching since he left. Just look at what he did with the Packers in 2019! Love is in great hands folks. Dillion is MADE for Sundays at Lambeau in December and I have a feeling about Josiah Deguara. He'll become a fan favorite just like John Kuhn was...Only faster and better but he'll have a similar effect on the Packers offense and fans. Great things are coming to Lambeau this year...(Hopefully) Stay safe everyone!
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 01:06 pm
Nick, what about the Hadl trade that goes down as quite a blunder....all part of history and fun.
NickPerry
May 03, 2020 at 06:23 pm
UGH!
I think they stopped printing those "Dan is Devine" in Green Bay shortly after that trade....LOL.
hobowilly
May 03, 2020 at 06:34 pm
nice post Nick. Let's not judge this years odd draft selections until perhaps a couple more years. I'm all for remembering Gutey hitting on 3 of 4 FA's last season leading to a superb 13-3, 6-0 season. If we get 3 or 4 "contributors" in 2020 out of this 9 man group i'd be satisfied. We know Love won't see the field for another 3-4 years but that doesn't mean he won't grow into a fine NFL QB. And, i'd be very pleased even if one of the Olinemen become starters, esp where they were selected in the draft. Wouldn't it be extra special if Martin becomes a starter this next season....AND, with Kirksey??????
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 08:54 pm
And then they traded for the missing piece of Hadl. They went from drafting OROY and DROY in successive years to having no number one or two draft picks for two seasons. Hadl has a season with 6 tds and 21 ints and the team goes downhill from there for a decade or two. Gawd no wonder they declined.
hobowilly
May 03, 2020 at 12:14 pm
swell, well written overview. I particularly foot stomp your point about TOP. GB has done very well when they win time of possession and certainly come out on top when they win the TO battle. But TOP is a key measureable. Hopefully Dillon can become Marshall Dillon and Williams can spell the dynamic A Jones as he did last year and contribute. I believe Jones is undervalued and really hope GB can resign the big three (Clark, Bakh & AJ). Bakh has steadily become a favorite of mine, even before the beer chunging, mental game interview and the bathtub jynx. Packer nation RELAX and be grateful and don't pre-judge!
GilbertBurger
May 03, 2020 at 12:16 pm
We've got a lot riding on Lazard. If he can grow into a legitimate #2, then we should be at least average at WR. If not, we're in trouble. Funchess is a complete wild card - can't count on him for anything until he shows some consistency on the field.
Ferrari-Driver
May 03, 2020 at 01:09 pm
David, I like your optimism, but I fear both the Eagles and especially the 49er's laid a blueprint for playing the Packers and will try to run the ball down our throats. I hope we can bolster the middle of the defensive line with one or more free agents and at least have a jump in a couple of our younger defensive linemen to mitigate the opponents' ground game. I do expect to see a change in our defense scheme to help with the run defense this season and hope when it's all said and done, we will have a good chance to get into a Super Bowl game this season.
Lphill
May 03, 2020 at 01:20 pm
Sorry David you have been drinking the kool aid to long, this team needed a playmaker receiver and the same at inside linebacker , Patrick Queen, and they draft the replacements? Give me a break please, the Bears did not pick up Trubiskys option , Rodgers should retire right before week one and sign with the Bears next year just to stick it to Gute.
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 03:13 pm
“Rodgers should retire right before week one and sign with the Bears next year just to stick it to Gute.” lphill......why are you on this blog?.....obviously, you’re not a fan of the Packers or you wouldn’t make such a derogatory remark....Please move on.
Lphill
May 03, 2020 at 06:31 pm
Been a fan longer than you , Rodgers is being disrespected then he should stick it back to them very simple. He had 1 TD pass to a first round pick in his career. Brady 105 , Favre 125 , Eli 135 , do you feel good about that?
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 07:44 pm
I am pretty damn pissed off they screwed the pooch in the draft so badly as to not get any WR help. Because I think it was a horrific choice for the Packers to build a stronger team. Whether Rodgers was disrespected is something I don't give a crap about.
Rodgers is a player. He's paid lots of money to play. He's not the Queen Diva of GB that needs to have his ego stroked and moves made with his feelings in mind. If he thinks he's being disrespected, then he's a loser that is in it for himself and not helping the team win. And that's why they haven't won more titles. I don't believe any of that. I think anyone that does believe that has done more to disrespect Rodgers than they imagine the Packers did.
Packerpasty
May 03, 2020 at 07:31 pm
I want Rodgers to win another super bowl, not with the Bears perhaps but with some team..it sure won't be with the Packers...im a fan but not a Kool aid drinking cheerleader...I don't like whats going on...wait and see....and people don't have to "move on", this isn't that "no criticism" official Packer site....go over there if you don't want any opinions that are critical..
murf7777
May 03, 2020 at 08:31 pm
You can be critical all you want but give the draft a chance and certainly, I know it isn’t you, but to wish Rodgers goes to the bears and sticks it to us is just wrong in many ways. How can you be a Packer fan and wish that is beyond my comprehension.
Lare
May 03, 2020 at 03:59 pm
"Rodgers should retire right before week one and sign with the Bears next year just to stick it to Gute."
Sorry but you're just wrong. A player cannot just retire and sign to another team. The original team still holds his rights.
Same with Rob Gronkowski, he sat out a season but the only way for him to "unretire" and go to Tampa Bay was for the Patriots to trade his rights.
CheesyTex
May 03, 2020 at 02:33 pm
Offense: Give ESB some love. He CAN fill the slot void.
Defense: It wasn't just the 'niners. The League realizes Pettine's "stop the pass and bend but don't break" approach allows running games to work. A solid nose tackle / run defender would certainly help, but until the philosophy or scheme changes...
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 04:33 pm
It worked for every game but one... But I see your point, so do the Packers. Question is, will they go heavy in the line taking away the athleticism they crave in the run game. There is always a trade off that most of us don't think about.
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 08:16 pm
True, but I don't think it would be very hard to improve on the run defense and on athleticism over Lancaster if they bothered to try.
KBG
May 03, 2020 at 03:29 pm
I am a 76 year old female Packer supporter all my life. I believe Aaron Rodgers is a highly intelligent man. I know other teams are lining up to sign him. My hope is that he pays it forward and takes Love under his capable wings and that he takes us to the superbowl when we have NFL games again...it may not be until 2021. I don't want any one of the players to be exposed to this deadly virus. No game is worth it!
I believe that Aaron Rodgers was privy to the draft choice, that nothing was done behind his back regardless of the media wanting headlines denying it.
Go Pack Go!
Fritz1218
May 03, 2020 at 06:17 pm
KBJ, I agree entirely with you. Media making something out of nothing. Then again maybe it's out age that thinks like that. I'm 75.
Since'61
May 03, 2020 at 04:42 pm
Assuming that we have a season in 2020 it will be my 59th season as a Packers fan so I doubt if my feelings about the Packers are going to change at this point. Before my recent retirement I spent the last 35 years consulting with my clients on successful business development via either Greenfield, Mergers or Acquisition approaches.
Regardless of the chosen approach the key to success is creating alignment among the Vision/Mission, Value Proposition, Strategic Plan, Operations, Marketing, Distribution and the execution.
The problem with this draft is that it mitigates the strength of our team, who is Aaron Rodgers. If the Packers want Aaron Rodgers to be more effective via play action passing he needs more than one legitimate NFL receiver because when that WR (Adams) is covered it leaves Rodgers with the ball in his hands and no place to throw it. Another legit WR threat would give the Packers play action passing attack much credibility than it has now. We have no threat beyond Adams for a defense to be concerned about. They can double up Adams and sell out to stop the run on 1st and 2nd downs. Then defend the pass on 3rd down play action or not.
On those rare occasions when one of our other WRs not named Adams actually catches the ball it’s no worries because they don’t have the separation or the speed to generate YAC. The same is true for our TEs.
Not to mention that Rodgers is a rhythm passer and frequent handoffs don’t help to build a passing rhythm. So much for aligning our plan with the strength of our team.
Now many here are posting but we’re building for the future. Okay, but the future is nothing but a promise and we don’t know how or when that promise might be fulfilled if ever. Does the future arrive in 1,2 or 3 years when Love takes over? Does it arrive in 5 years when Love has 2-3 seasons as our starting QB but most of this years other draft picks will be gone by then via failure to make it, injury or free agency. Even Love might be gone by then.
The Packers have spent several seasons drafting defensive players and now we finally have a decent defense that needs DL help and an ILB and what did we do to help? We went back to adding question marks at those 2 positions similar to TT which we complained about for years. On offense we are a WR and a RT from completing the offense and what do we do? We decide to build for the future with a QB (for the future), an RB of questionable ability at the NFL level and a TE who can help our running game in the future???
Planning for the future is fine and it’s necessary but in professional sports its about winning now. Always was and always will be. To me this looks like a team that is fighting with itself over winning now versus winning down the road. I would have advised my client to go for the win now and 2021. Quality players drafted today can help our team win now and in the future if they remain healthy.
Fortunately, I consulted for global corporations because if this is how it’s done in the sports world I’m not sure I could have done it for very long. What’s nice about retirement is that it no longer matters if I’m right or wrong. Plus my grandchildren don’t care either. Everyone stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
PhantomII
May 03, 2020 at 05:03 pm
I feel your pain and frustration. I wish our GB stewards were motivated and decisive.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 06:09 pm
Strong and well thought out as usual '61. I not sure Rodgers believes himself to be a rhythm passer. Even though Rodgers himself was most effective in McCarthy's west coast 2 back set in 11 or 12 out of play action. Somewhere between 2011-2013 Rodgers stopped trusting the run game. Even if McCarthy was a 70% pass 30% run play game manager, that was not good enough for Rodgers. MLF scheme makes it mandatory for the QB to throw on time and rhythm to the primary receiver. Just like McCarthy's old west coast did. The main problem is Rodgers love for the long ball. McCarthy built an entire new offense for that purpose around Rodgers. It failed. The return of a restructured west coast in 2013 led to the NFC champ game and a run that continued up to 2016 NFC champ game. And Rodgers has had the luxury, of playing behind one of the best offensive lines in the NFL for close to a decade. I mean 7 set drops, and then a full seven seconds in the pocket during those last eight games in 2015. Bombs away. In Rodgers defense, MLF scheme was never fully installed. The personnel for it was injured and was not on the roster. And by the NFC champ game no FB, no move TE, three WR (two core seriously injured playing). No mattered what MLF schemed, their options were pretty limited. Still, in a game where Rodgers needed to throw on time and on rhythm, he did not. And it cost the team dearly. I bet Gute and MLF agrees with you, otherwise we wouldn't see the Packers make the moves they did in the draft. Question is, can they convince Aaron Rodgers that he needs to become that younger successful system QB he was earlier in his career. I hope so.
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 09:04 pm
Watching past games rookie receivers do not appear to be on the field. Davante Adams was on kickoff coverage and had 38 catches as a rookie. Jordy Nelson had 33 catches and was returning kicks. Randall Cobb had 25 catches and made a splash on special teams. Greg Jennings was the star of them all as a rookie and actually started 11 games and had 45 catches.
So while taking a high pick receiver would make people feel better past history would tend to indicate it would make little difference to the team in 2020.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 10:32 pm
So which of one them do you think was a bad pick?
Adorabelle
May 03, 2020 at 11:12 pm
They were all good picks for the future. Rookie receivers are rarely a help right now proposition and probably why the Packers seem to like to find them in later rounds and develop them.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 11:20 pm
Every draft pick is for the future. They don't expire after one year.
Adorabelle
May 04, 2020 at 12:29 am
But thats the whole point. Everyone is running around here like their hair is on fire because the packers did not draft a receiver and act like the season is over now. I don't think any rookie receiver is going to make or break this team and as Nagler would say "theres a lot of ball game left"
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 11:07 pm
Nice article and a nice group of comments. It is good to get different perspectives from a couple of dozen different people, and it isn't surprising that they don't agree. But it was not a muddle. Most gave their reasons, which were coherent.
Longtime posters might remember me writing a rant when TT draft Richard Rodgers, and what was little short of a meltdown comment when CHTV evaluated each player at the end of the 2014 season. I truly detested the RR selection at the time it was made because I didn't think RR was a draftable player.
There is no selection like that in this draft. While I didn't like the draft overall, I don't hate any of the players. Love has talent. Dillon should be able to play in the NFL, just isn't worth 62, imo. Deguara can catch and block on the move and isn't too slow for the NFL, I just think that the best-case scenario is that he plays 500 snaps and will never command more than $6M in salary even if he pans out well. That's not worth a precious top-100 pick, imo. But he might well be able to do what LaFleur hopes he can do. I like the three 6th-rounders and the 7th rounder (I never heard of the safety and have no opinion). The ILB strikes me as a need pick but he improved during the course of the 2019 college season.
I hope they figure out their philosophy. I hope Gute isn't going to fall in love with players too much. Every GM needs to do that a little, but not every draft. There is plenty of reason to think these selections might help the Packers in year one or year two.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 11:43 pm
"I hope Gute isn't going to fall in love with players too much. Every GM needs to do that a little, but not every draft."
Gute is 3 for 3 in moving up in round 1. Even his first draft when he moved down, he moved back up. That suggests to me that he's falling in love too easily. Or maybe not easily enough.
Take Savage for example. Let's just say that Savage would have been gone by the time they drafted. That's questionable but we cannot prove it one way or the other. He could have drafted a similar player in Juan Thornhill and held on to his 2 4ths. Is Savage so much better than Thornhill that he's worth not having the opportunity to select another TJ Lang? In Gute's eyes, he was. Time will tell the story. Early returns are close. Was that because he loved Savage too much or Thornhill too little? Or the range of guys available in the 4th too little? Only he can answer that. And he surely never will, at least publicly.
All I know is I don't like the fact that's he made that choice 3 times in 3 opportunities. It eats away at the depth. And no team can afford that on a consistent basis.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 04, 2020 at 01:10 am
Agreed. He loved Gary as well even if he didn't trade up to ensure getting him.
TT went 3 for 4 on his big-money free agent acquisitions (if Marquand Manuel qualifies - and yeah, he struck out on some smaller ones). I remember wishing he would do it more often. But I suppose the GM has to reach a certain level of confidence in the move before it becomes a "go."
Beyond all reasonable doubt is too high a standard for signing FAs and for moving up in the draft. Preponderance of the evidence isn't high enough. Something akin to "clear and convincing evidence" sounds roughly good.
murf7777
May 04, 2020 at 05:52 am
Hank, I don’t like to be critical on things I don’t feel I have enough information on, but after three times moving up I’d agree it’s a concern.
bacchus102
May 04, 2020 at 08:08 am
I don't know why people are so worried about it, sure it is crazy that they picked a quarterback in the first but Aaron Rodgers has enough in him to go at least four more years. And if anybody doesn't remember how many quarterbacks sat behind Brett Favre and went on to starting jobs (some have rings) even though they didn't get to play much in Green Bay. I don't know how Aaron Rodgers feels about mentoring but I really don't think anybody is a threat to his job.
Archie
May 04, 2020 at 09:27 am
Gute was in a tough position - his R1 quality WRs were off the board (why he didn't give up a R3 to jump ahead of SF to take Aiyuk I'll never know) and Love was very much worth the picks that he used to take him. The problem of course is timing - Rodgers still has 4+ years left in his career assuming nothing really bad happens to him. Very tough position indeed for Gute. Of course he could have avoided the problem altogether by going up to get Aiyuk.
But what is done is done and I think Rodgers will let 2020 play out and then demand a trade.
Gute obviously paid a premium for his R2 and R3 picks. Had he got those picks one round later, I'd have no criticism.
An even bigger problem than value is that his R1/R4 and R2 picks are designed to replace his current stars at QB and RB, that didn't need replacing. That is a formula for spinning your wheels, not long term success, unless he figures he can get big trade value out of Rodgers & Jones and complete his "rebuild". Since Jones is a FA after this season, he would have to trade him this year (worth a R4 compensatory pick). And because of the salary cap issue, he can't trade 12 till 21. Maybe he could still get two #1s for 12, I'm not sure.
CalPacker
May 05, 2020 at 04:46 pm
The Packers were one win away from the Super Bowl and Gutenkunst decided it was a good time to start preparing for 2023. Apart from Dillon getting some carries next year, nobody else in this draft is going to contribute this year. As a draft nerd who watched an endless amount of tape in anticipation of this draft--and who feels pretty validated by Harbaugh and Reid picking my targeted players for the Packers--I can't tell you how terrible Gutenkunst performed in this draft. Trading down from #30, I had the Packers taking Hamler, Madubuike, Niang and Phillips in Rds 2-3, and all four of those guys would have started for the Pack in 2020. The rest of the NFL is with me on this--just read the slack-jawed reviews of Gutenkunst's draft from anybody who knows anything. Everybody but Gutekunst seems to understand: you don't compete for a Super Bowl and rebuild at the same time. I know I need to just get over it--but this management team is on the clock, baby.