Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - The Love Train
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
On the heels of Valentines Day, I thought the theme here should be about Love - Jordan Love, that is. And because it was Valentines Day, this week's post is rather brief - I wasn't going to risk sleeping on the couch because I spent the evening writing this.
Love Train - I saw a comment on the site from a reader, Cheesehead72, which said he had purchased his tickets and was waiting to board the Love train. Well, he/she better hustle over to the next stop because that train is already in motion and gaining momentum. I can't begin to put a number on how many "It's time to move on from Aaron Rodgers" articles I've read the last few weeks. And it's coming from all directions, fans, bloggers, National media and also Packers beat writers. The latest coming from one of my favorite local writers, Pete Dougherty. In yesterday's article, Pete lays out why he thinks it's time (better one year late than two). But the best passage in the article is this one:
What’s also become obvious now is the Packers ceded too much power to Rodgers the past couple of years, and their culture is at risk. While a star quarterback and coach have to form some kind of partnership, there still needs to be a line separating who’s in charge. With the lengths the Packers have gone to convince Rodgers to stay – giving him a voice in personnel, and the huge contract extension last March that has not aged well – you can bet a lot of Packers players feel like Rodgers is running the show. That undercuts LaFleur’s authority and makes for an unhealthy locker-room dynamic.
This speaks directly to why I was in favor of moving on from Rodgers after last off-season. I don't think we've actually been allowed to see the real Matt LaFleur, with all the deference shown to Aaron Rodgers and what he likes/wants. Now, it could be that seeing the "real Matt LaFleur" could end up to be really bad, or conversely, show us what could have been. I lean towards the latter but admit it's only a guess.
Ready and Grateful - Moving away from Aaron Rodgers could end up to be a disaster if Jordan Love doesn't pan out. I tend to think that won't happen, but it's just my opinion - nobody knows. But if it were to happen, I've steeled myself to accept what comes and just be grateful for the 30 years of Hall-of-Fame level quarterbacking I've been privileged to watch over that time.
QB of the Future - If Jordan Love turns out to not be it and the Packers are bad for a few years, that likely means some very high draft choices and the opportunity to draft the next potential franchise quarterback. You see the success around the league of young quarterbacks, who now come to the league much more NFL-ready than in the past and contribute much sooner. Mahomes, Hurts, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Tua, etc. If the Packers end up sucking for a few years and are able to draft their next franchise quarterback, I can wait.
Do you believe in Love? - It's really hard to say - will he turn out to be a Groovy Kind of Love or a Stupid, Crazy, or Tainted Love? Will they rename Lambeau Field the Love Shack after he shows everyone the Power of Love? Who knows! We've seen so little of him in meaningful action, but what we did see this year looked entirely different than previous years. It was kind of parallel to how Rodgers looked over his first three years as a backup. Now, it's fun to point that out as a possible reason for optimism, but drawing that comparison proves or predicts nothing. My hope for this season is that we get to see a Whole Lotta Love, because more than anything, I just Want to Know What Love Is.
And on that note, I wish you all (as Ringo would say), PEACE AND LOVE!
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (300)
PackerGravy
February 15, 2023 at 06:05 am
Well played Jersey Al, well played indeed, I concur 👍
Pack1961
February 15, 2023 at 07:57 am
The number 1 trait of a good GM is really knowing the talent you have.
Here is what you are totally missing. Gutey refuses to spend money on a WR - so to say Rodgers has
too much influence is a joke. Sammy Watkins really, he was washed 3 years ago. Gutey gave Rodgers one roster spot and no money - Got Cobb.
Rodgers refers to a lot of life lessons learned this past year. Yea, Gutey told him they would get a Vet in to help and nothing happened. Rodgers has a limited window to win and the GM doesn’t support it.
Why isn’t any one talking about Gutey’s track record. Trading up to take Love when Higgins and Pittman still on the board. Taking Sternberger over Terry McLaurin, taking Meyer over Creed Humphries. They could have actually helped this team over the past 3 years. So many misses, he has got zero out of all his 3rd round picks and has wasted
Picks to traded up to get Love, Savage, and Amari Rodgers. Has 7 1st round picks on defense that sucked until the last 4 weeks and still finished 27th against the run. How many 1st
Rounders for Rodgers to work with?
And fans are all to willing to trade what is real for what is dreamed. Love may turn out okay, but he threw 21 pass attempts this year in garbage time.
The Packers management has had 25 years of
HOF QB play and hasn’t been able to win any more than 2
Superbowls. NE didn’t waste Brady and KC is not wasting Mahomes, we are happy to waste Rodgers and Favres careers. Rodgers can be a weirdo by some standards for sure, but the dude can play. Gutey should be a bit scared because if Rodgers goes and Love is Brett Hundley,
Gutey should be on the scrap heap immediately.
Oppy
February 15, 2023 at 08:28 am
I get it.
It's everyone's fault but Rodgers.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 08:57 am
“Gutey refuses to spend money on a WR“. I’m not saying it is right or wrong, but the winning SB team KC did the same thing. In addition, Belechick did the same for years and years and put his money elsewhere. I think because of the hard salary cap, being a GM in NFL is far more difficult than any other sport and open to more criticism. Most of that is hindsight. Of course, with the benefit of hindsight it would be easy to be a GM.
Right or wrong, I was fine with the Packers giving Rodgers the contract and trying to win a SB with him. BUT, after he pulled the retire or not to retire after the Packers gave him everything he wanted I’m done with Rodgers and I think it’s the best move to trade him.
I LOVE the article. IT’s right on because it states nobody knows the future, but “it is time”, “it is time! If Love doesn’t work out, you start drafting QB’s and hope you hit a home run.
Leatherhead
February 15, 2023 at 03:56 pm
Refused to spend money on a WR.
When Gutekunst took over, the Packers were in a decent situation cap-wise. Thompson's decade of not really pursuing free agents (Woodson and Pickett being the exceptions), had done that. Thompson always said that it was easy to make big mistakes in free agency, and that you end up with a guy who wasn't that much better than the guy you had AND now you have less money to resign your own.
During Thompson's time, we never lost a FA than we wanted to keep. He believed in resigning his own guys who could play rather than lose them .....like we lost MVS....because we couldn't pay.
Gutekunst released Jordy, and then others. The only WR who has gotten paid in Green Bay since Gutekunst became the GM is Davante Adams. Other than that, it's been : Moore, MVS, Scantling, Lazard, Shepherd, EQ, Kumerow, etc.....Day 3 guys and UDFAs on rookie deals. It was "Let's throw it at the wall and see if anything sticks, and Lazard stuck. MVS and EQ and Kumerow moved on.
The frugality which Gutekunst has shown in "buying" a superduper WR, has allowed him to spend money in other areas. Otherwise, yeah, we'd have a shiny superduper but where do you think it makes us weaker? Do we have the money to keep Jenkins then?
Here's the deal: You can only pay about a dozen guys. Everybody else needs to be on a rookie contract or near the vet minimum. Why are you spending money on a FA WR who's going to be a blocker or a decoy on most plays?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
murf, on the contract, IMO, it only begins to make sense if the Packers wanted to keep the rights to Rodgers until he was 43 or so, and the only reasons they'd want to do that is that either they think he'll be a good QB for us until then, or because they want to be able to get compensation in trade. How many millions of dead cap money does it take to balance out against a pair of first round draft picks? I don't know.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:06 am
"Here is what you are totally missing. Gutey refuses to spend money on a WR - so to say Rodgers has
too much influence is a joke. "
They were ready to spend heavily on Adams, but the Packers' money wasn't green enough for him. If you'll recall, 12 gave Watkins his endorsement...ooops.
"Why isn’t any one talking about Gutey’s track record. "
You're not reading very closely, here, then.
You can litigate past draft picks for all GMs and make each of them look like shit by selectively locating a player here or there that they (and likely every other GM) passed on.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 09:22 am
Dobber, you’re right on and why it’s hard to read some comments. I try to respect all comments, but the ones who criticize thei GM’s mistakes while not giving credit for the smart moves is wrong. It’s as if the GM should bat 1000 is just wrong.
I couldn’t agree more about if you scrutinize every GM you will find many mistakes in drafting and/or Free agency, keeping players or not and bringing in new ones to the team. The same can be said about criticism of players. We’re all human beings and one thing we all have in common WE make mistakes. Now, some bat 500 and some 300, there lies the difference.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:24 am
"If you'll recall, 12 gave Watkins his endorsement...ooops."
What else was he going to say Dobber? "This guy sucks" I think a lot of us thought Watkins was worth the risk for the money. Unfortunately, he just didn't pan out.
I definitely agree with you on your GM comment. It looks like last years draft was a winner for Gute (sans round 3 as usual). If he has another draft like that, I think it will go a long way toward the long term success of the organization. in fact it's imperative that he does hit considering our top heavy cap situation.
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:28 am
Don't you have a simulator to play with?
mnbadger
February 15, 2023 at 01:22 pm
pack61, I wish I could give both a thumbs up (for the last paragraph) and a thumbs down for the first three (thumbs down)
With 3 against and 1 for, I went down, sorry.
I just can't look past AR's me first play that first started showing up in the last 2 years of big Mike's reign and has only multiplied in intensity since then.
GPG!
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 04:31 pm
A weak Chemtrailer like AR wasted the Packers Prime.
Had a lot of weapons but made nothing out of it. It never was the management who made the difference, it just was AR who did not.
Mahomes and Brady have no trust issues, throw no one under the bus. They work in OTAs and dont want an extra 20 M.
Its AR fault, he just looooses everytime it counts. Just like a real flateearther he is. Should go to Rogan and ask for advice. Compared to AR he is smart like hell.
Imunissed against winning that is all he ever was.........Thanks God the D won the SB for him.....
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 06:33 am
A tip of the hat to you, sir. I like your train of thought! Love can build a bridge, between this way and that.
#10 or whatever QB it is in the future...try not to worry about the pressure following two HOF QBs (scratch that, 3 actually). I hope you still enjoy the game, even by today's standards, enjoy team success...along with the fans.
Where is my Annie vinyl, lil chinchilla lipz? Got it, thanks.
We frickin' got this! I may set up a Huggin' Booth for FREE HUGs outside the hallows of Lambeau.
Yip cabbage,
Peace ✌️
*I may be jumping the gun and regretting this BUT, going to bury my trusty Ovaltine Decoder Ring by the River Birch down near the creek. I hope I never have to use it again. It is similar to a relationship that has to end for the betterment of the two parties. For me, it's like you know your girlfriend doesn't want to be with you anymore. Someone has to ask the difficult questions and then be prepared to hear the difficult truth. After a while, you get tired of having to steal your kisses and the hugs aren't the northwoods wood tick kind either, it feels like she hangs on only because she lost her balance.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 07:23 am
"You know, she still laughs with me, but she waits just a second too long"- John Prine.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:41 am
Maine, I predict we are going to have a HOF- worthy rock-scissor-paper match at some point. ✌️👌
Rarescope
February 15, 2023 at 10:54 am
As long as you don't shoot your eye out.
NickPerry
February 15, 2023 at 06:51 am
"With the lengths the Packers have gone to convince Rodgers to stay – giving him a voice in personnel, and the huge contract extension last March that has not aged well – you can bet a lot of Packers players feel like Rodgers is running the show. That undercuts LaFleur’s authority and makes for an unhealthy locker-room dynamic.
Not only has it undercut MLF, but it's made the entire Packers Organization look WEAK as hell. Trading Rodgers would be a start but I'll be very interested to see if LaFleur will be able to get the respect of his players and assistant coaches. LaFleur can't undo the ass-kissing he's done the last few years with Rodgers, nor is he going anywhere, at least for 2023. LaFleur has a lot of work to do IMO to clean up his image and it won't be overnight. The BEST thing that could happen for MLF is for Jordon Love to become say a top 12 QB in 2023 IF Rodgers is gone. Personally I'm pulling for that to happen because if it doesn't not only will the Packers be looking for a new HC, they'll be looking for a new QB as well.
Like Al I believe in Jordon Love. I believe he can be a top 12, even Top 8 QB in this league. Get another WR to go with Watson and Doubs and for God's sake get a TE and lets START to run this offense like it's meant to be run. Motion, getting rid of the ball quickly, and USING LaFleur's scheme to help open up the offense would be a great start.
Trade Rodgers and let the the Jordon Love era start. Let Gute approach a draft WITHOUT thinking about ANYTHING else but what's best for a Jordon Love future. I think he'd nail it and add to setting up this franchise for the next several years.
Hematite
February 15, 2023 at 06:56 am
I believe in LOVE!
Put him in coach, he's ready to play!
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 07:23 am
…center field? Hmm. Eh, I’m not above musically mixing sports metaphors. Tip of the hat.
Packer_Fan
February 15, 2023 at 06:59 am
Nick. Nailed it two days in a row
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 07:25 am
Always does. You’re the Comments MV(N)P always, Nick.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:38 am
I agree NickP always brings it. In my humble opinion, the post of the year has to go to Oppy...it was epic, stellar and breathed of Packer passion.
*There are a bunch of highly knowledgeable and intelligent people on this board. I guess that is why I blend in so well.
Pizzadoc
February 15, 2023 at 07:07 pm
I swear to god this person is a previous poster who got kicked off. His words and cadence are too similar. And he says nothing.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:30 pm
Thanks pizzadoc! You are correct in that I use to go by Pantz Burp. But now I am Beautiful Mystery. And trust me, you aren't the only one who thinks my posts are lacking. Don't give up on me just yet, I may surprise you.
(I didn't get kicked off or out) if/when I do...I will look back fondly at much fun and boy it was worth it. I have learned a lot about the Packers. And, a few other nuggets outside the fine sport of football.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I will take it under advisement. Honey, I got another negative feedback...what should I do? Okay, I am supposed to sleep on it before making a decision.
Sleep well pizzadoc. 👍
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:21 am
Pantz Burp!!!! I was wondering where you've been lol
pantz_bURp
February 16, 2023 at 11:16 am
RTS, I had to lose my pantz to find myself. 😁
Tundraboy
February 15, 2023 at 07:12 pm
He's rolling! Al as well.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:08 am
"With the lengths the Packers have gone to convince Rodgers to stay....makes for an unhealthy locker-room dynamic."
LIke I said yesterday, the removal of 12 will likely have a significant impact on that lockerroom...likely a large, collective exhale.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:22 am
Bingo, Dobber. Addition by subtraction. Exactly what I've been saying for 2 years.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 09:11 am
“Like Al I believe in Jordon Love. I believe he can be a top 12, even Top 8 QB in this leagu“.
I don’t see anywhere in the article where Al is stating he thinks he will be a top 12 QB in the NFL. He keeps his comments more about it’s time to move on and see what we have in Love.
I personally think Love has some good traits, but until he plays a full year, nobody really knows. Even then, it really takes a couple of years minimum to know for sure what you have. The reason is because many QB’s like other position players get better and better as they get playing time. You saw that with Rodgers, Hurts, Burrow, Allen currently and many, many in the history, like Mannings and our great Favre. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.
Some fans actually think they know how he is going to be after a game and 1/2 and that ludicrous thinking. IMO, to be fair to the player, Fans should give Love a couple of years before anointing him or throwing him down the road.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 09:39 am
This is his Fourth Season. They better have it nailed down. He will have to hit the ground running. There is no time for another two-year's waste of a position. Most of your list of #One picks noted, start the year drafted, that is the nature of the New NFL. Favre was essentially in year one when he took over for Magic.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 10:11 am
JJ, if you said that about Rodgers, who also waited 3 years you would be disappointed in his first year. The team he led won 6 games, he had 28 TD's to 13 INT's and threw for 4000+ yards. 13 INT's were his most in his career. Not bad but no where near what he was capable of.
Favre had 18 TD's and 13 INT's and led his team to 8-5. Some how he did make the PB that year. In year 2, he had 19 TD's and a whopping 24 INT's. It has been said, Holgren wanted to move on from him and Steve Mariucci and other asst. talked him out of it.
I would agree in both situations you saw some great potential. But it wasn't till year 3 for Favre before he really took off. And it was year 2 before Rodgers did.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 10:51 am
Rodgers could have started 2007, if Favre hit the deck and he still would have gotten them to the NFCCH game, which I, unfortunately, attended. In 2008 the Defense was the failure. Rodgers gave them leads to defend in the four losses, or they end up 10-6. The discussion is about Gutedkunst and Company, not Rodgers. If Love was the guy he would be starting, 2022. The draft "haul" would have been realized. Favre was never considered for the number one pick for his particular draft class, even though he beat Florida State the top-ranked team.
Tundraboy
February 15, 2023 at 07:17 pm
I read that much differently. As I see it , NP said he agrees with Al on his belief in Love and adds his specific belief in where he ranks. Slow down we're all getting edgy with this year's drama
Packers2020
February 15, 2023 at 11:57 am
I find it interesting how everyone already believes in Jordan Love after a quarter and a half of good play. Which by the way, he came in when the defense was unprepared for him and they were up by multiple scores.
When Love actually plays full time, defenses will game plan for his strengths and weaknesses. Things will be different then. Love needs to show that he can deal with defenses that are actually scheming against him.
Which is a big iff.
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 02:51 pm
I think it's kinda on the coach to plan for these adjustments and get him ready to play, not a young QB, or any QB if the coach is good. It's a tough league.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:24 am
Ok then whats the acceptable amount of playing time before were allowed to believe in a guy? 16 years ago, I believed in Aaron Rodgers after only seeing him play 2 1/2 quarters in relief vs the Cowboys. Was that wrong too? If you could direct me to the belief arbitor that would be great.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 12:42 pm
NP,
I posted a long post below before reading everyone's post. You & I my friend think eerily similar!
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 07:39 am
The Love train has turned into Murder on the orient express.
This shouldn’t be about giving a sucker a even break.
Rodgers never hung himself.
I’m not willing to trade a winning MVP.
For consecutive losing games. And maybe Losing seasons.
I stated recently; that No great coach can win, without a good QB.
And Rodgers still is a Good QB. Gutey would cut him if NOT.
HE HAS THE POWER! And It’s not the power of Gray Skull.
The media has turned this into cartoon. Maybe even the 3 stooges.
And while you see Rodgers vs Love.
I see a club that made all the wrong moves.
For 12 years: HAVE the Defensive collapses; been Rodgers Fault?
Rodger’s didn’t fire MM. Murphy Did.
And how about the drafts. (The difference makers we needed)
Why draft a QB when the DL , And ILB stood out.
MLF making the same mistakes MM did. (Per retaining his DC)
And before we solve the problem. The Defense!
Starting another at QB, only screams Stupidity.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:46 am
Call me stupid. :)
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 02:44 pm
Okay, you're stupid. :)
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 05:17 pm
All im hearing is Barry White and Chef saying “Luuurve train” and then stupid”. Maybe the sublime has turned ridiculous.
Untylu1968
February 15, 2023 at 07:54 am
So is having a 50+ million a year quarterback that is consists
Untylu1968
February 15, 2023 at 07:55 am
Considered good instead of great acceptable?
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:09 am
He's not $50M yet, but I don't blame the Packers for trying to get out from under his contract before he is.
fair_weather
February 15, 2023 at 08:00 am
Yeah, we are all stupid. Right. You a Vikings fan or what?
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:11 am
I get after SH as much as anyone, but I would never say he's a Vikings fan.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:31 am
You have to admit, SH gets plenty of feedback. I will say this, his take on the draft prospects is as well versed and accurate as anyone in here.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:41 am
I think in this case you need to put "feedback" in air quotes. ;)
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:43 am
lol. Good point
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:33 am
Is ignoring "Feedback?" Asking for a friend...
JerseyAl
February 15, 2023 at 11:43 am
You are right, Stockholder has good commentary on individual draft prospects. However, when you complain about why the Packers took a QB instead of a position of need, that's when you lose me. With that thinking, we would have never had Aaron Rodgers. For good teams, the draft is much more about the future than the present.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 12:01 pm
Al, I wouldn't advocate for him to be our GM, but I want to give him credit where credit is due. He takes enough heat.
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't advocate for any of us to be our GM ; )
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 12:08 pm
So true.
GMs are looking at "need," 3 years ahead, generally.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 03:22 pm
IMO- TT did have a right to take Rodgers.
1. The pain Killer addiction. 2. Surgery on a thumb. 3. Possible retirement.
TT did let a good player fall to him. (Bulaga also)
But that hasn't been the case with Rodgers.
Rodgers Contract shows the Failure in that THINKING!
Rodgers frustration showed us 1 major point.
That this team was broken.
Are we a Good Team?
Were we a good Team when Love was Taken?.
Regardless; the Defensive problems weren't fixed.
And we were only Good because of Rodgers.
NickPerry
February 15, 2023 at 05:25 pm
Look, I get SH...You think Rodgers should stay no matter what happens to the cap future as a result. All the BS will continue but apparently that doesn't bother you either. This team has REALLY lost it's way from the team of the last 30 years and Rodgers is one of the many problems. It's not just Rodgers, but it all STARTS with Rodgers.
The pain killer addiction? That was in 1997? Sorry but he won a SB and 3 MVP's right after that summer so that's ridiculous.
Surgery on his thumb? Hmmm, he had a pretty good season in Minnesota and was 9-2 as the Jets starter until he tore up his shoulder and ended up losing a bunch at the end of the year. He actually had a fantastic season going right up until he tore up his shoulder and insisted on continuing to play.
The Defensive Problems were never really fixed though I'd say in 2014 they were MORE than good enough.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 06:22 pm
Np- I think he should stay.
HIs Word goes with signing that Contract!
As does managements.
I get you don't like a QB to be the talk of Hollywood.
But when you date girls in the spot light. Your News.
Any Addiction is kept Quiet. I get the time.
But it is Confidential, and doesn't mean you'll stop.
The health records are sealed for that reason.
Finally; your problem with Rodgers is going to the press.
WE all know; the loudest wheel gets the grease.
But He hasn't been wrong in any of his criticism.
His frustration is spot-on.
If they sat him.---------
You would only judge Love and not the Team.
Savage57
February 15, 2023 at 07:47 pm
All I know is I want some da' shi' you smokin'.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 09:25 pm
Try this - Merle Haggard - Are the Good Times Really Over
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:30 am
How was Favre's painkiller addiction (which he kicked in the 90s btw) any worse than Rodgers doing DMT and God knows what else? Rodgers has also broken both collar bones, broke his foot his 2nd year in the league, torn calf in 2014, tibial plateau fracture in 2018, broken toe in 2021, broken thumb in 2022, and who knows how many concussions he may have sustained throughout his career that he never reported. He has quite the list of injuries too. The circumstances in which Love was drafted are not far off from when Rodgers was drafted. The difference is you dont like Love so you try to fit the narrative however you can. See i didnt care about Love till he became a Packer. When he was drafted, he became Our Guy. At least thats how Ive treated it. Hes on my team so I want him to become the best he can be because thats whats best for this team.
Packerpasty
February 16, 2023 at 11:41 am
if you don't know the answer to pain killer addiction vs a one time jungle experience or even DMT then you shouldn't comment...how many lives have been lost and families torn apart by pain killer addiction...answer me that dumbass...
stockholder
February 16, 2023 at 11:53 am
The circumstances in which Love was drafted
are not far off from when Rodgers was drafted.
Yes they Were. Love was the wrong pick.
Most pointed to his mechanics at the senior Bowl.
The other was his decision making; while the program changed.
I get you'll trash Rodgers to get Love.
But you only have to look at the eagles draft to see GBs Failure.
Yes Love is a packer. But you make him "earn" his starting status.
It's easy to tear Rodgers down when Murphy slams him.
The Don't be a problem.
And "we"re not idiots" shows the flip flop.
IT Resurfaces when your GM makes the wrong move.
Rodgers wanted a voice. To be heard. To be HAPPY!
Listen to Simon and Garfunkle's Sound of Silence.
And Not Ray Charles hit the road Jack .
Oppy
February 15, 2023 at 08:30 am
I get it.
It's everyone's fault but Rodgers.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 08:54 am
And there is the other side where its all Rodgers fault.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 09:13 am
Stock has his own dimension. A simple different side doesn’t describe it.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:39 am
still no clue what you are saying
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 09:50 am
Well then you aren’t far off the point
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 10:45 am
i have no idea what your point is.
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 02:46 pm
Well, IIRC, string theory requires at least 12 dimensions; Stockholder's must be one of those then. It sure as hell ain't this one.
jannesbjornson
February 16, 2023 at 09:34 am
Well, we know he's not a Flat Earth Society type of guy with linear patterns of thought.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 15, 2023 at 08:46 am
rOdGeRs FoReVeR
BAMABADGER
February 15, 2023 at 08:46 am
1) "No coach can win, without a good QB." Super Bowl winning QBs: Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco (MVP), Nick Foles (MVP)
2) "I see a club that made all the wrong moves." Including not trading an old AR after last season for massive draft capital and cap space.
3) "The media has turned this into cartoon." The media didn't isolate themselves in a dark room for 4 days.
I could go on. But I like brevity.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 09:27 am
SH, makes absolutes at times. Many fans do. That said, it’s rare that any teams wins a SB or wins consistently with average QB’s.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 09:10 am
Toll the Bell Loudly, maybe repeatedly to wake the lemmings from the stupor. Players, not plays and this guy has not stocked the depth chart. You cannot overlook the Evidence File accounting for his Draft Record. You do not go All-in speculating on a QB and giving up the fourth rd picks that usually provide chess pieces for the O line, TEs, Safety spot or LBs/Edge. You cannot go 4/5 misses in the third round, giving Deguara some hope of getting on the field. Draft 2018, the deal down and back was good maneuvering for Jaire, but getting blanked on the next five selections shows a lack of acumen, considering the guy's been around the Feedstore the last thirty years. If Savage does not get it together this year, we're looking at another one pick in la la land and another forfeited four pick. Opportunity Cost is a bitch. Too many holes in the roof for Rodgers play to patch. If I was Love's agent, I would put in the trade request. They will move Rodgers only if the money is covered. If Love stays another high picks goes to a QB instead of a Playmaker.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 09:34 am
JJ, I don’t know for fact how Gutey does drafting. If you ask me I think he has does pretty well. If you took the time to review how Coach/GM Belechick drafted over the years I believe you will find out it wasn’t all that great. To determine how someone does it needs to be by comparison because they all make many mistakes. What he was great at is Coaching players up, bringing in the right FA’s, game management and creating a winning culture.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 09:47 am
I do not have the Time to review the complete List of head scratchers, total whiffs and under-performers brought in from 2018-2022 under His watch. 2017 seemed a collaboration of Gutedkunst, Wolf,Jr, Sullivan and Highsmith choosing replacements, but the accounting lays the foundation for none and done , 2018. King, Josh Jones, Montraviuos, Biegel etc. 8/10 no shows and two solid hits on A.Jones and Williams as RBs they rarely used under MM.
I'm not putting the King selection on Ted.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 10:13 am
Again, if you're not doing comparisons and you admit you're not, how do you know he's a bad drafter of talent? All GM's make mistakes, the good ones make fewer.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 10:32 am
The hit rate is lower than I think most think. Every study always reminds me that it’s startlingly low—making stand out drafts truly significant—even for Hall of Fame GMs
There is a nice summary (even if posted on a Vikings site) that I keep in mind that ties in with others but makes it comprehensible:
“Five years ago I did a piece detailing how most draft picks are busts, based on a study of 1996-2016 draft picks. The results, which are based on the Pro Football Reference AV metric, are sobering:
16.7% didn’t play for the team that drafted them
37% were considered useless. They either didn’t play much or didn’t make the team.
15.3% were considered poor. Had limited playing time and didn’t do well in the time they had.
10.5% were considered average. These are mediocre players that had starts or significant contributions over 2-3 years.
12.3% were considered good. These could be mediocre or average players that were multi-year starters, Pat Elflein or Christian Ponder for example, or perhaps some genuinely good players that didn’t last all that long for the team that drafted them- Sidney Rice for example. This is where the AV metric can over-rate a player based on the number of starts, rather than their performance while on the field.
6.9% were considered Great. This category is the first that includes undeniably good draft picks. In order to be considered great, they would’ve had to play for the team that drafted them into a second contract, and also performed well over those years.
1% were considered legendary. These are future Hall of Famers, multi-year All-Pros among the best in the league for most of their relatively long careers.
And so only about 8% of draft picks are players that really make much of a difference beyond replacement value, and only about 30% see much playing time or make a significant contribution to the team.”
It always reminds me in simple terms how tough it is to be a GM in a world where every fan can cherry pick on hindsight.
https://www.dailynorseman.com/platform/amp/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-...
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 10:52 am
Nice work, CW.
...unfortunately, now we need to start asking why you would admit to going to the DN...
CheesedDeadHead
February 15, 2023 at 11:06 am
Maybe an intervention is necessary! ;)
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:15 am
Sometimes I need to remind myself that there’s always a worse place to be.
In reality, I saved that from an old google search on the topic. Very few actually boil it down as well. But the odd Vikings site trawl can be always be relied on to be cathartic.
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 03:01 pm
It was an hilarious site after we beat them, and even funnier after they got bounced in the playoffs. Always prime entertainment after a Purple loss.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 11:07 am
CW, thanks for the data, very good info, it proves my point. It is something I knew but didn't want to take the time to lay out. So, unless you have the data from all GM's results, how in the world can anyone know by fact if your GM is a good at drafting? The easy answer is you can't. You can assume and of course we all know where that gets you....lol
That is why I state, I think he is good at drafting and not nit pik his failures from the past that have been overstated far too many times in past posts.
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 03:00 pm
To your point about GM being a difficult job...
Question - Which GM is widely regarded as having the best draft in Packers' history?
Answer - Lisle Blackburn, 1958 (and he was fired just after that draft, ushering in the Scooter McLean blip). Three of his first five picks are in the Hall of Fame, and one of the other two was a starter:
1 - Dan Currie (3rd overall pick, with a six
2 - Jim Taylor (HOF)
3 - Dick Christy (5 yr career, a HB who was pretty good catching passes)
3 - Ray Nitschke (HOF)
4 - Jerry Kramer (HOF)
5 - Joe Francis - QB (Possible QB of the future who was just a JAG)
6 - Ken Gray - G (12 yr career)
And the rest of the guys were all JAGs
My point is that every GM in the league passed on Taylor once, Nitschke twice and Kramer at least three times. If being a GM were easy, then every team would be fantastic.
In a "thing I found looking up other things" note, Ray Nitschke is credited for one pass reception for 34 yards. Not an int, a true reception. I did not know that.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 06:03 pm
I had to look that up. It was in what turned out to be his last his last regular season game, December 17, 1972, a 34-yard catch and gain on a blocked field goal attempt picked up and thrown by punter/holder Ron Widby.
murf7777
February 16, 2023 at 07:16 am
Did they pass back then….lol
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 10:40 am
That would be the point. The good GMs get players. You try to pinpoint football players, not Projects. You get some guys who get Injured and forfeit careers, but selecting Sternberger over McLaurin, even the kid's down at the video arcade could figure out was a fail.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 11:09 am
Of course, they do, but they also make mistakes, like the one you are describing about Sternberger over McLaurin. Again, without comparisons, of how many starters, pro-bowlers etc....you can only assume your GM is doing good or bad.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 11:29 am
I would bring up the opportunity cost arguments from 2018-2022 on certain player choices, given the draft previews/Film, but what's the point? When other teams GMs miss on more than they hit, they are generally relieved of their duties. Packertown,LLC. extends their people. Fox got his team to the SB in Denver and Carolina, but was shown the door for not bringing home the Prize. Rodgers is not the only component of the CAP quandry. Quite a bit of Dead Weight is assigned to the formula.
Coldworld
February 16, 2023 at 09:37 am
One way it has been expressed, I think realistically, is that there are good and bad GMs, but that the ones who are hood will inevitably bat at about the same percentage over a period of years. That percentage isn’t particularly great. What makes the difference is not how much they win in percentage terms but how big they win when they do—how much over value their ups are compared to their misses, accounting for both impact of the player and where they are picked. Of course that takes hindsight to evaluate.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 09:36 am
absolutely.
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 03:02 pm
Dude, you got the stockholder Seal of Approval.
Ouch, that's gotta hurt.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 03:20 pm
I wear it like a Distinguished Service Medal.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 09:16 am
“I’m not willing to trade a winning MVP.“. SH, I respect your opinion on this subject. I felt the same way last year. BUT, it’s more about what he is doing to the whole franchise. Meaning the undermining of coach Mlf , the Team and the FO. Part of that is thei FO’s fault. We went to the same circus with Favre for a few years and TT finally had enough. Does the FO have enough? They should and time will tell.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 09:45 am
Murf Rodgers wants to keep winning.
He said make the offense more simple.
You had to many fill-ins the first 8 games!
Yet- MLF turns right around and Keeps Barry.
The defensive play sucked the first 1/2.
And were going right back to the problem
of safety.
And then Douglass goes back to CB.
While Stokes gets replaced.
And you can't tell me you liked the 2 front.
(Lowrey and Reed rushing)
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 10:20 am
The problem isn't whether Rodgers can win, obviously he can. It's about what he is doing to the culture of the team and fan base. Because of his sheer talent, I've been a huge supporter of him, but my time has ended because I don't think they will win anymore with him. I could be way off, and if they keep him, I hope I am.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 11:08 am
Culture is for the Leisure class and Yogurt. These guys are paid to Win. Belichick does not instill confidence in his team by flapping his wings, during the Game. The easy target syndrome gets tiresome in contemporary society and can have very pernicious effects if left to group think as viewed from a historical perspective. The onus is on management to prove their "plan" holds merit. So far?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:40 am
Culture is everything in football. You cant expect 53 guys from completely different backgrounds to gel without a healthy team culture. Just ask the Chiefs, who follow Mahomes as far as he can take them. He sets the tone for everything that team is about. Instead of being selfish all summer, hes out there in the heat working with his guys and getting better. He leads by example. And he does it not because thats whats expected of him, but because he wants to. What kind of example do you think Rodgers sets for the young guys where theyre expected to put in extra work but he only has to do the bare minumum? Double standards are terrible for any work environment. It causes resentment. Im sure most here have experienced it in their respective lines of work. I know I have.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:20 am
"I’m not willing to trade a winning MVP.
For consecutive losing games. And maybe Losing seasons."
This is why the other NFCN teams have petitioned the Packers to install you as GM and President.
It's a "what have you done for me lately" league, and 2021 is a long time ago...especially for guys who are in the 99th percentile of the league's age distribution.
"And Rodgers still is a Good QB. Gutey would cut him if NOT."
No doubt 12 still has value. I don't think anyone will deny that. Unlike Carr, the Packers didn't write themselves into a contract where they didn't have at least some control over that part of 12's future, and some ability to recoup value if they need to move on.
Many here are of the opinion that his value is diminishing both to outside teams AND to the Packers. Like a bullet, his trajectory rose, leveled off, and is now curving back to earth. The combination of contract and play doesn't merit this marriage to continue. Loyalty just gets you an old, slow, and underperforming roster.
"Rodger’s didn’t fire MM. Murphy Did."
It's "Rodgers", btw.
If you can't see the depth and nuance that surrounded that change, then I'll stop here.
BirdDogUni
February 15, 2023 at 09:33 am
*Epstein never hung himself...
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 10:08 am
Neither did Jean-Luc Brunel last Feb 19th...Two very prominent pimps, still at large....
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:43 am
Much worse than pimps. Demons in the flesh.
coolhand
February 15, 2023 at 09:52 am
12 is so great he get's paid $50 mil a year and only looks at 1 receiver in one part of the field. Ignores guys that are wide open. Holds the ball too long because he doesn't want to hurt his stats. Criticizes the team management in public. Chokes in big games. He is a polarizing figure now and needing to be a team leader that is a terrible trait to have.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 10:55 am
"he get's paid $50 mil a year"
Again...not yet, he doesn't.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 11:09 am
Some people don't get it, and they're not going to Dobber :)
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:44 am
Its the average annual salary for his contract extension so saying "not yet" is a moot point.
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:41 am
This is why we can't have nice things.
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 02:22 pm
Pretty sure a flatearth loooser like AR, who always find a way to lose when it counts and pointing fingers at everyone else is just the way the stockholder likes it.
Just look a game, just once. Look at the chemtrailer like he is missing open WR, try to force it to his only trut worthy option. Holding the ball forever and doing just the wrong thing when it counts. Over and over again since 10 years at least, with all that weapons, with good enought defences. What would other top QBs had done.
How can it be worse than 1 throphy in 20 years? And how should he not getting worse with his orin drinking ways and thats only the stories we know. How can a crazy AR who runs his body down with his strange choices. Look when he asks Rogan (one of the dumbest people on earth) for advice and tell me he is any smart. He looks like 60 and plays like that. No one wants to be on the team anymore because of his style to "lead" and his trust issus.
Weak and old, not very smart. Sound just like Stockholders kind of QB.
And the worst thing is that AR has no intension to work since 12 years. Thinks he is perfekt, no need for OTAs, education or working out. Just the greed and the lack of any empathy for anyone but himself.
Packerpasty
February 16, 2023 at 11:43 am
you need intervention...funny stuff though..
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 02:43 pm
Holy shit, stockholder, you BROKE the Bonkers Scale!
Crap, they just went off-sale, too. Shipping from Timbuktu is going to be a bitch... Gotta see if I can fix it myself, then
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 02:54 pm
All we know you can trust a looosing urin drinker, who lost everything when it counts and never takes any resposibility.
AR is soft like hell and smart like Rogan. Never wants to work hard. No OTAs nothing. Just complaining......strange dude and thats positiv explained.
Cheezehead72
February 15, 2023 at 07:39 am
Good article Al. This is what I have been saying. I wanted the Packers to trade Rodgers last year. Yes I know they might have tried but did not get a good enough offer. I still believe Gute was too scared to make that move due to too many Packer fans that hold onto the past and think Rodgers is the only way the Packers make the SB. I was looking forward to have many draft picks with trading Rodgers and Adams and surrounding Love with weapons and a good defense.
Yes I agree Love may not turn out to be the franchise QB and in two years we might have to move on but Rodgers has been the franchise QB and he might be good the next two years but then we are in the same position looking for a franchise QB. I would rather go with Love and the opportunity for many good years.
Having Rodgers as our QB is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. He does not seem to fit MLFs offense. MLF seems to be frustrated during the game. Part of that is I believe MLF should not be calling plays as HC. He needs to concentrate on being a HC not an OC. Also he needs to call out the players more and stop covering for them by taking the blame. I agree that MLF needs a younger mobile QB to run his offense the way he wants. He also wants a QB the will run his plan and one he can develop into his plan.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 08:57 am
"Having Rodgers as our QB is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. He does not seem to fit MLFs offense."
So how did this work the previous 2 seasons? If Rodgers doesn't fit LaFleurs offense how did he win 2 MVP's with LaFleur?
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 03:12 pm
He won them in spite of Scooter, not because of him. We have yet to see Scooter's offense as it was originally sold to us when he was hired.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:47 am
We saw it in 2020, which was the best offense in Packers' history. After they drafted Love, Rodgers bought in for exactly 1 season and had the best and most efficient season of his career. Then he pulled a coup the following offseason and the offense went back in time to 2018. Havent won a playoff game since.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 05:25 pm
I remember CHTV deeply disappointed with both the outcome and the play when it mattered. I’m really not sure where that point gets you. Rodgers plus LaFleur certainly didn’t get where we and they hoped before last year.
barutanseijin
February 15, 2023 at 08:04 pm
It was the same old same old: regular season mirages vanishing in the playoffs behind the usual smokescreen of excuses.
Besides, you know deep down that Rodgers only won that 4th eMVeePee by default.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:49 am
He didnt deserve that MVP anyways. Brady and Burrow were both more deserving. Despite his stat line, neither he nor the offense were great that year.
Lphill
February 15, 2023 at 07:45 am
Joe Barry will be holding this team back regardless of who plays QB, nobody is calling Barry for a new coaching job I wonder why, even Dom Capers got a new job.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 08:57 am
Best comment today!
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 09:22 am
Akin to being worried about whether the window is cracked when the wall just fell down?
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:33 am
no clue what you are talking about.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 09:19 am
The Church ladies are only paid to sing for the Front Office weddings, Funerals and bar mitzvahs...
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 12:45 pm
LP,
Even more reason why Gutey needs to go all in this draft with players at skilled positions on offense. Time to become a dominant offense again that can overcome a mediocre defense. Draft capital the last 10-years heavily favored the defense and where has it gotten us? With the NFL rules it strongly favors the offense, so why are we fighting it? Draft offense early and often during the 2023 draft. Let's surround Love with skilled players and by God, let's put some points on the board!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 10:50 am
Why? So Rodgers can not teach them his precious audibles and throw them under the bus on McTanktopcast all year? How many more times do we need to see this horror show?
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 07:46 am
Right now, in every article, it seems Love Is In The Air. I spent much of this season asking “Where Is The Love?” Drafting him was controversial, causing division among us fans to the point now where Love Is A Battlefield.
He needs the ball so we can know What’s Love Got To Do With It. If it turns out that Love Stinks, then You Give Love A Bad Name and move on before we have Love On The Rocks. We don’t want to be singing Silly Love Songs.
We can’t keep living in A World Without Love, and when Rodgers is gone, Love Will Keep Us Together. Granted, right now he’s inexperienced, basically a Baby Love, just a Crazy Little Thing Called Love, but I think he’ll develop into The Greatest Love Of All. Personally, I’m looking forward to sitting down to watch the first time he takes the field against Chicago, and thinking, “All right, Bears, gonna Make You Feel My Love.”
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:51 am
Love it! 👌💪👍✌️
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 08:58 am
Sometimes its just Brutal Love.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 09:31 am
"Radar Love"
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:34 am
Oh Love
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:44 am
If you'd have told me that we'd have two Golden Earring references in a week, I'd never have believed you!
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 11:11 am
I think they're maxed out now ;)
fthisJack
February 15, 2023 at 08:58 am
We need a Whole Lotta Love.
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 11:20 am
If it keeps on rain'n, levee's going to break...
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 09:21 am
Well done Brad! Love Is All You Need.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 10:24 am
"All you need is Love"
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 11:13 am
It's just a refrain at the end, "all you need is love, love, love is all you need, love is all you need, love is all you need....
I was sure someone already had used All You Need Is Love, so I wagged it.
Was that the White Album?
Don't ever get old.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 01:20 pm
Yes, it is and I'm not sure of the Album, but I don't think it was the White. I have a funny story about that. Last year when Love started at the KC game, We went to the game with another couple. We try to get to one away game per season. Anyways, when we were there we decided since Love was going to start we would all get Love jerseys. We had them sent directly to the house we rented. We spent two nights and the game day with them on. OMG, everyone asked about them. Lastly, and this song reminds of it. On game day we each made up a sign and my said All you need is Love. We also had one Love is all you need. Fun times and the KC fans were great!!
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 01:40 pm
Great story. Sounds like you were Rolling Down the River.
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 10:55 am
*tips hat* Thanks, that was fun to write.
My football insights are questionable at best; I prefer to think of myself as the ugly dwarf jester to Jersey Al’s King Arthur.
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 11:16 am
I thought it was all fun and still the thumbs.
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 03:16 pm
I never give a rat’s patootie about downvotes. Some people have no sense of humor.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:22 am
“Jesters do oft prove prophets.”
William Shakespeare
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 12:07 pm
So Murphy is Lear. Ball plays Goneril and Gutedkunst, Regan. LaFleur seems a Cordelia. The Fans, naturally, play the Fool. So, there may be hope, somewhere...
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 02:50 pm
I don’t necessarily agree, but very well played. What an erudite group we are.
“Blow winds and crack your cheeks! Rage, blow!” could be a Lambeau-in-January description…
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 05:46 pm
I had Macbeth more in mind for Murphy, but nice run on that one.
egbertsouse
February 15, 2023 at 07:47 am
Well said, Jersey Al. I was talking to a Vikings fan yesterday and he said,”Cousins isn’t great but at least we don’t have to listen to a bunch of drama crap every year. Why do they put up with it?” My answer was I could only assume they are a bunch of wimps.
For the first time ever I was jealous of a Vikings fan.
mrtundra
February 15, 2023 at 08:25 am
Never be jealous of a vikings fan.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 09:01 am
Jealous of a Vikings fan?
What the hell is going on?
Johnblood27
February 15, 2023 at 09:09 am
why even converse with that level of sub-human garbage?
PackyCheese500
February 15, 2023 at 01:42 pm
I think that’s a little extreme, don’t you? As much as we detest the Vikings, their fans are still people.
Bears fans on the other hand…(just kidding)
Johnblood27
February 15, 2023 at 03:18 pm
extreme?
Nope...
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 05:13 pm
Yeah the Chemtrailer is really a shame for all of us........
LambeauPlain
February 15, 2023 at 09:46 am
I also respond to my friends who are afflicted with being Viking fans that "the Packers won as many playoff games as MN this year."
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:57 am
On the first day of school in Minnesota the first grade teacher tells her class that she is a Vikings fan. “Raise your hands if you are too”, she says.
Everyone in the class raises their hand except one little girl: “Claire, why didn't you raise your hand?'
“Because I'm not a Vikings fan.”
After a pause the teacher asks:
“If you are not a fan of the Vikings, then who do you believe in?”
“I am a Packers fan, and proud of it.”
“Why on earth would you be one of those?”
“Because my mom is a Packers fan, and my dad is Packers fan, so I'm a Packers fan too!"
"Well," says the teacher, “that is no reason for you to be a Packers fan. You don't have to be just like your parents all of the time! What if your mom was an nincompoop and your dad was a fool, what would you be then?”
“Why,” Claire responded, “naturally, then i’d be a Vikings fan.”
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 07:52 am
Rodgers will retire. No trade. No picks.
— Revelation from my own 4 day darkness retreat.
Green Bay is a Love train. Get on board.
__
A solid, timely piece, Al.
Been messaging back & forth with Pete Dougherty for years, if not decades. He's a great guy, and he knows his stuff. Nailed it here with what you shared.
IMO, we already are 2 years too late. The moment all the garbage came to a head on Day 1 of the 2021 NFL Draft, just moments before it started, was all you needed to see. This was orchestrated, and if not, it certainly was perpetuated into a sickening Aaron Rodgers Circus of the Absurd, by none other than Rodgers himself. He basked in the self manufactured, team sniping chaos & media attention. That stung most of us fans, and we've suffered through this BS for years now.
Lombardi would have shipped his ass out that day via trade. We all know it too.
Ceding so much power to AR over the years since has destroyed leadership in Green Bay, to the point where MLF deferred his way out of town with what was at the time an incredible record, and a unique vision, as expressed to fans upon his hiring.
Instead of putting the troubled QB1 in his place, they acquiesced to allowing him to run the place. This has gone to the point where many here, and rightfully so, are questioning what we actually do have in Jordan Love. We should know by now, but, no. AR wouldn't have it. He had to play his games. And, they were all his games, supported by his choice to throw to no other WR than his pal, Davante Adams, for an entire 3 Quarters of football, with everything on the line for the Packers' advancement.
Instead, he advanced his friend's contract year in favor of the team and its fans.
Gutekunst has to bear some of the brunt in going along with this charade into darkness.
Favre showed Rodgers the DIVA way, and Rodgers took it to his own lows.
I'm grateful for Reggie White, Gilbert Brown, LeRoy Butler, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard, Don Beebe, Craig Newsome, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Bag-O-Donuts, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, Howard Green, BJ Raji, Josh Sitton, TJ Lang, Clay Matthews, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Frank Zombo...
Too bad AR tarnished his legacy here with his yearly goal being to win MVPs, instead of Super Bowls.
QB of the Future? It is still possible Love turns out to be great and maybe finds himself wanting to stay here. Guessing MLF would remain in place, if so. I have many questions there.
I've been a Jordan Love fan since the day he was drafted, hoping for the true development plan to be realized. Now, none of us can say what we have at QB1. That, to me, is a real shame, and a bad mark upon the Packers Front Office. They could not have bungled this any worse.
Rodgers' retreat into darkness will last just 4 days. How many do you think he has signed Packer fans up for?
I have zero confidence in Mark Murphy. Zero confidence in our Board of Misdirectors. Zero confidence in LaFleur. Quite frankly, I have way more confidence in the stupid sledding hill.
Seems like Brian Gutekunst really got the shaft in all this, along with all of Packerland.
I'm a Packers fan till the day I die, and I hope they can right this sinking ship.
Peace & Love.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 07:56 am
So be it, I am ready. Okay, back to keeping a roof over my head and mac-n-cheese in the cupboards. I trust you big ol boys can take it from here...?.
✌️
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 15, 2023 at 08:48 am
No complaints here.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 10:42 am
That would be the best outcome for both sides probably. Whether that’s what Rodgers wants is anybody’s guess.
It’s notoriously hard for stars in any sport to let go of the status, Adrenalin and attention they’ve know since high school. I have made it clear that I believe that the team needs to part ways, but that doesn’t mean that i underestimate the turmoil for Rodgers facing up to letting football go, knowing that it’s going to happen very soon inevitably.
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:00 am
I suspect he will realize:
1. He's done. He's lost the long ball, his accuracy, and his legs.
2. He's afraid to tarnish what he considers to be a solid legacy as stands today by failing to win a SB with NYJ.
3. He's building a house in Nashville, with dreams of becoming a country music recording star.
4. Retirement now is his best move going forward.
Of course I'm hoping he wants to go to the Jets, and we can realize draft capital in the process, but, does he have the stones to do that? My guess is an emphatic NO!!!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 12:49 pm
Total agreement GG with exception of Rodgers retiring. Just do not see that happening anytime soon. AR is basking in money, attention, fame, adoration, self-absorption, and young women. Life is good for AR!
jurp
February 15, 2023 at 03:19 pm
Great post, GG. It's not out of the question for the Packers to be QB-less in 2024 if they fail to pick up Love's 5th year and/or extend him. If Love feels hard-done-by by the FO, it's also conceivable that he chooses to not re-sign after a successful season in 24. Danny Etling in the Brock Purdy role but without his talent, anyone?
I remember 2021, when you were very certain AR would be traded to the Broncos before training camp. I wish to hell the FO had done that.
Tundraboy
February 15, 2023 at 08:33 pm
Eloquently stated. I feel like I got some things off my chest just reading this. Lombardi would not be pleased.
fair_weather
February 15, 2023 at 07:59 am
*chef’s kiss*
Whole Lotta Love songs in there. Cheers!
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 08:43 am
Wuh-Wah!
Wuh-Wah!
Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Wah-Wah-Wah-Wah Bowmp!
Wuh-Wah!
Wuh-Wah!
Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Bowmp!
Bup-Bup Wah-Wah-Wah-Wah Bowmp!
Since'61
February 15, 2023 at 08:08 am
Nice job as always AL. The most frustrating part of all of this is that none of it had to happen. Failing to trade Rodgers after 2021 is just bad business from financial and football points of view. The Packers sacrificed their salary cap to resign him. They hurt the team by holding back Love for another season. And then MLF compounds the whole thing by continuing to play Rodgers while he was injured when Love was allegedly ready to play. You can't make this stuff up.
Now we're waiting for him to emerge from his 4 day consultation with Godot. He's lucky I'm not running the show because if it was me I would be delivering the revelation to Rodgers once he's out of the isolation ward. That revelation would be "Aaron, while you were in solitary I traded your ass to the Jets/Raiders/ whoever. Thank you for 18 great seasons in Green Bay and best of luck to you. Now GTFOH." End of stupidity. Thanks, Since '61
BradHTX
February 15, 2023 at 08:26 am
“Now we're waiting for him to emerge from his 4 day consultation with Godot.”
Nice one, Since’61. Love me some literary references on a football blog!
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 09:19 am
“Whatever happens to you has been waiting to happen since the beginning of time. The twining strands of fate wove both of them together: your own existence and the things that happen to you.”
Marcus Aurelius
Since'61
February 15, 2023 at 04:53 pm
Nice job Coldworld - Marcus Aurelius has always been one of my favorites. A genius in his time for certain.
Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 05:34 pm
A bit before mine and thine. I have wondered what epigram he’d coin about the current conundrums. With powers of observation as sharp as he had, he’d obviously be PackfanRomanitas
packerbackerjim
February 15, 2023 at 08:39 am
MLF is weak with or without Aaron Rodgers. Could have played Love with the thumb injury, but no. Playing: I Want To Know What Love Is.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 09:46 am
The question is: would he have grown into more as a young HC without having to deal with the "dynamic" in GB.
We'll never know.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 10:46 am
LaFleur is the Trubisky (Fields, any Bears QB) of coaching? An Interesting proposition to ponder.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 03:48 pm
Packer Jim -
Could have played Love?
The Team was broken.!!!!
Everyone that is on the Love Train
wanted to blow it up.
The guys rushed back from Injuries!
Do you really believe they would have
If Love was the QB. I Don't.
Gutey had to see who could still
play. Rodgers saved their Butts.
I say Jenkins would never have been signed.
And Bahk would have been dumped.
And what about Tonyan?
Rodgers made Gutes job easier!
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 08:49 am
Since, this post is the post I can claim contain exactly my thoughts about situation.
Only what I'll add is that I promise ACR when he decide to finish career, that we will sign him for 1 day and that we will retire his number.
Regarding Jordan Love, I trully have feeling that Packers found 3rd HOFer in the row. I was delighted with his performance vs Eagles. His throws was laser throws I do not saw from ACR in the long time. Fast, very accurate and with excellent zip. Only throw thar was not like that was throw to Watson in the end zone.
I know that my football knowledge is at much lower level than many of authors and posters here, but at least I know what I see.
Thank you for this post, as I really appreciate your opinion on lot of football related (and business, too) questions.
Since'61
February 15, 2023 at 05:25 pm
Croat as you know I have supported Aaron Rodgers over the years. I have enjoyed watching him play and he has been a great player for the Packers. Possibly their greatest player ever.
But this 4 days in isolation to make a decision is a bridge too far for me. Is he expecting to consult with the Oracle of Delphi while he is in his solitary confinement?
Packer management has their fair share of the blame as well for letting this situation get this far and turning it into a circus. They need to step up and become the adults in the room.
It's unacceptable and unnecessary. Everyone needs to move on. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 06:24 pm
Sensory deprivation is a long revered path to wisdom. Delphi was more of a quick high and hope you don’t die. However, most mystical schools expect a lot more than 4 days to attain wisdom. However, for one often called attention seeking, it is remarkably low key when there could have been Aaron Stylites media ops galore.
croatpackfan
February 16, 2023 at 08:29 am
Since, I came into fandom of Packers because of ACR. To me he looks (2008) like very nice guy with lot of talent. Second, if I'm not fan, I'll always rooting for underdogs, what Packers looks me like in 2008. I also enjoyed excellency in ACR qbing for many years.
2014 season I started to look at ACR with different eyes. And my opinion on ACR changed completelly after that NFCCG. I admit that Packers might lost that game on one huge idiotic jump of Brian Bostick, but honestly I was so furios on ACR because it was his worst game I watched. He had ball inside RZ 7 times in the first half and Packers scored only one TD, one INT, 2 TO on downs and 3 FG. For me that was true reason why Packers lost the game. If there was at least 4 more points (1TD vs FG), result would different. And all of that lays on ACR, not Mike McCarthy. In the 2nd half Packers production was only 2 FG. That was unacceptable for that offense.
He gain some trust in him in that 2016 (2015 season) loss at Cardinals were he was plaxing on really high level with completely depleted receivers room (injuries). Hack, Jareed Abrederis and Jeff Janis was 1 & 2 WR.
The last nail in the coffin of my trust in ACR was put with his behavior vs Mike McCarthy. Season was lost, and he insisted to release (or fire) MM in the middle of the season. He got that. He basically run away MM from Green Bay, the man who enables him to become what he is today.
Every season after that was just confirmation how selfish he trully is. No talent, physical traits or intelligence can win alone in team sports. Neither M. Jordan will become what he is w/o Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, Kukoch and others on the team. I do not know how much you knows abou soccer, but I'm pretty sure that you heard about Christian Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. Two archtypes of different personalities. Ronaldo is selfish, arrogant person, while Messi was and is team player. And that is why Messi is much more better player than Ronaldo.
I respected and respect your opinion even if I do not agree with you. Because you know how to give arguments to your opinion, not just believes.
And that type of discussion is the best one for both or more parties in it.
Thanks.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 15, 2023 at 08:52 am
61, please inject this comment straight into my jugular. That is all. Have a splendid day.
Since'61
February 15, 2023 at 05:17 pm
RTS if I could I would. However I think that we need to inject some of this into Murphy or Gute or someone at 1265.
I'm A Rodgers supporter and I have been since he became the starting QB for the Packers. I've enjoyed watching him play and he has given us many, many more good moments than bad. It could be argued that he is the greatest player the Packers have ever had and he is an all time great QB.
However, waiting for him to go into this 4 day darkness retreat to maybe make a decision about his future is a bridge too far for me. I can't stand the idea of management waiting around for him to make his decision. The FO should never let this get this far. It makes no sense to me as someone who consulted Corporate Executives for over 30 years. Sports have numerous difference from other industries but this is a case where the adults need to step up and get this done one way or the other.
I get it that Rodgers has played 18 seasons in Green Bay at an HOF level. And I'm fine with giving him time to make a decision about his future. But 4 days in isolation!!! This is the 21st century. The ancient Greeks did not take 4 days to consult with the Oracle at Delphi before making decisions to go to war.
If Rodgers want to go into isolation for 4 days that's fine as well but do it on his own time and not holding up the team. Murphy or Gute should have put some boundaries on this process. They need to act like adults and stop the madness. Their job is to run the team and put a winning product on the field. Great players come and go and yes they need to be dealt with as businessmen when decisions impact the entire team.
Reached an unacceptable point for me. Thanks, Since '61
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:09 am
All your points are understandable. For the amount of heat I sling towards Rodgers, some here probably assume I was a born Rodgers hater but thats far from the truth. Like you, I supported Rodgers faithfully for many years. Even before he was starter, I was in his corner when many Packer fans had already declared him a bust. I was one of his biggest and earliest fans. Made all the excuses for him for years. And to be honest, I couldve continued living with the playoff shortcomings if not for all the extra stuff. The beginning of the end for me was the holdout in 2021. They were coming off a great season with a historically great offense and were oh so close to making that elusive 2nd super bowl. Instead of getting back in the lab and putting in the work to get them over that final hurdle, he then made it all about himself and held out. The nail in the coffin was the press conference where he trashed the front office for 20+ minutes despite them completely kneeling to his demands. It was at that point that I saw Rodgers as a guy who had passed the point of no return. And when that season started, it quickly became clear that in Rodgers' fight for power, he had usurped control of the offense because the wonderful scheme that helped him have that amazing 2020 season had been replaced by the Rodgers' 2018 check with me offense. This is when I went from not liking him anymore to now hes actively harming this team. After many years of loyalty and support it felt like i had been betrayed. I feel its important to make these points clear since Im a mostly regular part of this community now. Im not just some blind internet troll as some here have accused me of. My reasons begin and end with what is best for the Green Bay Packers. Long story short, we may have gotten to this point on different timelines and for different reasons, but it looks like were on the same page now. Heres to hoping the front office gets on the same page before irreversible damage is done to the future of this franchise. One last thing, whenever Rodgers does move on, I will wipe the slate clean and get back to revering him for all the great memories he has given all of us. But until that moment comes, I just cant feel good about him being a Packer anymore. Sorry for the rant.
T7Steve
February 16, 2023 at 01:28 pm
I like that RTS "blind internet troll" HA! You could change you name after that "BIT".
I believe we're almost all loyal Packer fans here and have to have thick skin.
Since'61
February 16, 2023 at 06:06 pm
RTS great comment. I've been here since the 2010 SB season. At that time Me and many of the bloggers were members of Jersey Als All Green Bay Packers blog. In 2013 0r 2014 Jersey Als AllGBP merged with Cheesehead TV.
My point is that over that time I've learned that each of us here at CHTV come at Packer issues from our own perspectives/experiences. Of course Rodgers could have an entire blog just for him if someone wanted to do it. Part of my perspective on players was formed during the NY Yankees "Bronx Zoo" seasons in the late 70s. On that team players fought with each other, other players fought with with the Manager and everyone fought with the owner, George Steinbrenner. However, when they took the field between the white lines they played brilliantly with 3 consecutive World Series appearances and 2 consecutive World Series Championships. Since then for me it's been as long as the players give us everything they have on the field I can live with the other stuff. And I still believe that Rodgers gives us everything he has. He is just no longer as effective as he once was and that is to be expected at his age. Another reason for management to move on.
As our perspectives are different such are our breaking points. Yours was 2021, I get it and I understand it. Mine is this 4 day isolation thing, whatever it is. As I posted this should all have been avoided and management should have made their decisions and moved on by now. I advocated for the Packers to trade Rodgers after the 2021 season because I believed then and still do that it was the best time to make a trade for the Packers benefit. I don't know what it will look like if they trade him this offseason but I still believe that they should do it unless Rodgers chooses to retire.
I could even be Ok if Rodgers decides to play for the Packers in 2023 but that should only be supported by management and coaching establishing some boundaries and enforcing them on who is running the offense and how it is implemented on game day. Having said that I still believe that the best for the Packers and for Rodgers is for him to move either via retirement or trade. There is nothing left for Rodgers to do in Green Bay. I don't see the Packers competing for the SB in 2023 with or without Rodgers. So what's the point for him to play here in 2023? Management needs to get it over with, start Love and see what we have. If Love doesn't work out it's not the end of the world. There is always another guy.
We're OK RTS. No worries. I'm a live and let live guy, and I hold no grudges. I move on quickly. Life is too short to be otherwise. Beside I enjoy your posts. Stay well. Thanks, Since '61
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 09:57 am
The mismanagement of Aaron Rodgers' exit from Green Bay is mind numbing and embarrassing.
Horrific display of ineptitude by the Packers Front Office. Again.
How many times do we have to go through this? Fuckin' A!
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 10:50 am
It’s sad that we have managed this so badly twice in a row. Both under Murphy. Has anyone else wondered if that extraordinary extension was this time’s equivalent of the Favre “media contract”?
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:04 am
Too many parallels of stupidity exemplified by our Packers own version of Alfred E. Newman.
JFC. Shakes head.
Deep breaths. Breathe.
murf7777
February 15, 2023 at 10:30 am
"Failing to trade Rodgers after 2021 is just bad business from financial and football points of view."
And, what if the team Rodgers was traded to were to of won a SB? Packers traded him after Rodgers won back-to-back MVP's while he helped the team go 39-10 win the win-loss column.
The Packer's FO would've looked foolish, and it would've gone down in history as one of the worst decisions made. That decision wasn't easy. It is very controversial with us Fans, I get it, but I also understand why they kept him.
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 11:32 am
And what if ACR were lead team he is traded of to the 1st draft position this past season. That has better chances taking in consideration how long he need to develop "trust" with for him new pass catchers...
The Packers FO looks foolish now, depending on ACR decision, not controling the destiny of the team they are leading. They have no courage to cut the ties with the anker that pulling them under the surface...
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:39 am
Fair point. The easy option, taken because of that, is typically treacherous.
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 11:52 am
That's one example of fear-based mentality. No thanks.
You play to win the game. A famous quote. Has nothing to do with padding your own stats, or those of your friends...
Can hardly believe he actually threw to no other WR, not a single target for 3 Quarters to anyone but Davante Adams. Every. Single. Throw.
That was some fucked up writing on the wall there. All the "beautiful mystery," BS... It's endless (goggle AR controversial statements and you get hundreds of links)... When they tell you who they are the first time, believe them.
Rodgers should have been traded Draft Day 1, 2021, before making a single selection.
Leatherhead
February 15, 2023 at 12:02 pm
"""Rodgers should have been traded Draft Day 1, 2021, before making a single selection.":"""
That would have been a choice. Or last year. Or now.
In 2021, Love hadn't taken a single snap, so without Rodgers we probably don't go 13-4 and win the division. We might not have made the playoffs. We'd have gotten a bonanza in trade, but the second straight HOF QB of the Packers might well have flung crap at the organization. Not a good look.
In 2022....last year....was probably the optimum year. We'd have had a chance to get to 8-9 without him, and it would have been a bonanza of picks.
In 2023....now....we should trade him. We'll still get some good value, and Love is ready. I'm pretty sure this is the way it's going to happen.
In 2023....
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 12:05 pm
Principle. Lombardi understood that.
barutanseijin
February 15, 2023 at 08:27 pm
That would entail Rodgers winning a conference championship game. Not anything i would worry about.
Oppy
February 16, 2023 at 05:30 am
Can't worry about what the ignorant of the world think about how you handle your business.
Once the trade is done, who cares what the traded player does?
Perhaps a lot of people should care, but the Packers shouldn't.
So much concern with how they'd look, what people might say.
That's not how you run a business.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:15 am
Youve seen Rodgers in the playoffs over the last decade plus. Have you seen anything that says he could win a super bowl elsewhere? I havent. If he couldnt win with the 2014 or 2020 rosters, hes not winning anywhere. They let fear of the idea of him succeeding elsewhere prevent them from doing what was best for the team. Jobs should have been lost over such a terribly weak mistake. Ron Wolf was bold. Ted Thompson was bold. Mark Murphy is just plain weak. And i say Murphy instead of Gute because Murphy ultimately has the final say in personnel whereas Thompson and Wolf had that final say in their days. Gute does not have that authoroty so he shouldnt be judged in the same capacity as those guys.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 08:08 am
On my way up to the 10th floor...I ain't kidding, "Love in an Elevator" just so happened.
(I am kidding, just trying desperately to fit in)
One last attempt, watching a BBC doc on rodents, part of the soundtrack was "Muskrat Love". That is a toe-tapper and sawdust flying song if I ever heard one.
✌️out
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 10:39 am
"Try Holding back the years."
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 11:02 am
Stock, no matter how this plays out...whomever is under center this upcoming season. Can I, meaning will you allow me to name my first born after you?
✌️
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:17 am
Stockholder Burp. Im here for it.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:09 am
“No man is rich enough to buy back his past.”
Oscar Wilde
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:17 am
Love this. Excellent share, C-Dub.
BAMABADGER
February 15, 2023 at 08:17 am
Thanks, Al!
"Packers all over the world
Join hands
Start the Love train, Love train "
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 09:59 am
Style points awarded.
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 11:38 am
I'm in already. All I can type is that it is very hard to typing with joined hands. So excuse for mistakes...
jannesbjornson
February 15, 2023 at 11:51 am
Or," Love Rollercoaster". OK, now I get the waiting part of the Godot reference. Who is Pozzo? Who is Lucky?
ricky
February 15, 2023 at 08:19 am
The Packers have to hope that Love works out. Because what are the alternatives?
- Get rid of Love via trade or cut, and keep Rodgers. Then join the many teams that are desperately looking for a decent QB in a year or two.
- Trade/retirement for Rodgers, and see what they have in Love.
- Love stinks (see what I did there?), the team is back at square one.
- The team does what Philly did with Hurts: get him weapons on offense; design the offense to be as friendly to Hurts' skills as possible; create a terrific defense.
People do remember that Hurts and Love were drafted the same year, with the Packers moving up to get Love, while Hurts lasted until the second round? Does draft order mean anything? After all, Alex Smith went #1 overall; Rodgers had to wait until the 24th pick to be selected in the same draft. What is bothersome is that the team didn't seem to learn anything from the Favre debacle. And as far as the team not believing in Love, I am no longer a strong believer in their ability to judge talent, especially among the assistant coaches.
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 11:15 am
"The Packers have to hope that Love works out. Because what are the alternatives?
- Get rid of Love via trade or cut, and keep Rodgers. Then join the many teams that are desperately looking for a decent QB in a year or two."
If they went this route, Rodgers came back and traded Love for draft pick(s), then they would likely use one of those picks on a QB this year in the draft and restart the process.
At least this time the timing would be better with Rodgers closer to retiring then it was when they drafted Love.
Oppy
February 16, 2023 at 10:51 am
When they drafted Love, the Packers (Or, at least, Gutekunst) didn't concern themselves with when Aaron Rodgers was planning on retiring, and the Packers shouldn't be concerned about if Aaron Rodgers is planning on retiring.
If you wait to prepare for the future based on when a player may be getting ready to retire, you've waited too long.
mrtundra
February 15, 2023 at 08:24 am
Al, all you need is Love.
Bitternotsour
February 15, 2023 at 08:35 am
I hate to get Orwellian, but c'mon believe the evidence of your eyes. This IS the real Matt LaFleur. It won't be different when Rodgers leaves. Look at his decision making. Does he not hire his own coordinators? Did he not stick with incompetent special teams coaches? As the great Walter Sobchak would say, "Donnie, you're out of your element".
Even his best friends have punked him.
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 09:42 am
Then are they true friends? No...
For example, if I was about to get beat up at a bar in the UP for talking smack. I KNOW FOR A FACT, ALL ON THIS BOARD WOULD JUMP IN TO PROTECT ME...
That is true friendship, thanks in advance every single one of you!
Call me Donnie. Shut the ____ up Donnie, you are out of your league!
✌️😁💪👌
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 12:14 pm
You speak truth, Bitterboogie.
Oppy
February 15, 2023 at 08:39 am
I think Jersey Al hit on the major points I've been highlighting for the last several years:
We need to learn, once and for all, what we have in Jordan Love.
By extending Rodgers and failing to give playtime/opporunity to Love, this organization is effectively hurting the team. It's an attempt to pacify the infantile ego of Rodgers at the expense of the team's health.
It's time to end that, sooner than later, and move on to the future and get this team back on track, immediately. Stop the bleeding.
To summarize:
What is Love?
Baby, Don't Hurt Me
Don't Hurt Me No More
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 08:46 am
"Baby, Don't Hurt Me. Don't Hurt Me No More".
What if one is a masochist?
Johnblood27
February 15, 2023 at 09:13 am
...and the other is a sadist
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 09:27 am
Beats me?
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:30 am
A masochist and a sadist are walking down the street together.
The masochist says; ‘hit me,’
The sadist says: ‘no, I won’t.’
LeotisHarris
February 15, 2023 at 08:45 am
Nice, Al. A lively and entertaining read *and* couch banishment avoided; win-win.
I agree, as much as I've enjoyed watching him play, it would be a relief to me to see 12 lovingly set free. Without love in the dream it'll never come true.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 08:46 am
Moving away from Rodgers could be a real disaster as you say, but so could staying with him. That’s why this matters and needs to be a grounded in very cold, clear logic. I’m not confident of that within Lambeau.
The real Matt LaFleur? A couple of years ago I thought as you seem to: that the test for LaFleur would be post Rodgers. Since then his handling of personnel on and off the field and serial repetitions of issues with usage, preparation and tactics that really can’t be ascribed to Rodgers have convinced me otherwise, strongly.
If LaFleur has been prevented from being himself then presumably Gute and maybe even Ball have been similarly channeled down a course defined by another. Rodgers couldn’t do that without one person making it happen: Mark Murphy. If you are right, Mr Murphy is undeniably the root problem, and a big one. If you are not right, then it’s all on LaFleur. Of course he’s a guy Murphy chose on his own.
Is Love worthy of Love? Well we missed a golden opportunity to find out. In retrospect that seems an increasingly unwise decision. As Ted believed, enough to draft Flynn and Brohm in 2008 at the same time as being willing to hand the reins to Rodgers, you don’t know till the player is tested in real games against multiple opponents. It’s not just Ted, that’s been a long established truism in all sports.
All we can hope for at this point is a rapid clarification of which way we are going. Until then all is in abeyance.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 15, 2023 at 08:49 am
Shake Your Love?
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 11:32 am
“I don’t know what love is”?
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 01:18 pm
Cold; Maybe ask Forrest Gump...I overheard him tell Jenny, he knows what love is.
stockholder
February 15, 2023 at 09:34 pm
Just a Bad case of "Puppy Love".
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:19 am
But Jennaaaay, you're my girl (sad Gump noises)
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 08:50 am
Love Train -
I don't know if we are on the Love Train yet but we are definitely on the tracks going somewhere. A year from now we will know which train we are on. Are we still on the tracks, or are we on one of these trains that are oddly derailing all over the US of late.
Ready and Grateful -
I am really trying hard to not talk about 12. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of talking about Rodgers every day. But every article has something about him in it. I have stated my point over and over on this page, and get resistance every time I do. So I will just say this.
There are valid reasons to move on from Rodgers. There are good reasons to keep him. Which ever train you are on (keep Rodgers/move on from Rodgers), hopefully we make it to the same stop. Hopefully that stop is eventually another Super Bowl victory!
QB of the Future -
I had brought up this question yesterday in conversation. What happens if Love isn't good?
If Love is not the guy, management truly this messed up, and we will be seeing new everything. New management, new coaches, new players. And at that point, who knows how long it will be until we are competitive again. Teams spend years searching for the right QB. And they give up a ton of assets trying to find the next QB.
The follow up question, how many years are you willing to wait, basically to just get rid of Rodgers? Is moving on from Rodgers that important that you are willing to give up years of watching good football?
So this is where I caution people to be careful what you wish for. If you wish for Rodgers to be gone just to get rid of Rodgers, then prepare if this doesn't go the way we hope it would go.
I love this team and quite honestly I don't care who plays and who doesn't. I want every player that steps on the field to be good. But that isn't reality. There is a very good chance that it doesn't work out for Love. I truly hope they do. I want to go back to back to back hall of fame QB's. I want to see Love come in and win multiple Super Bowls. But there is a very good chance that doesn't happen.
Do you believe in Love? -
I hope for Love. We truly don't know anything about him. A year ago he played against the Chiefs. He wasn't very good in that game. He played in preseason, but I don't really put a lot into that because he really isn't playing with starters much. The only meaningful time we saw this year was against the Eagles. And he looked really good. By far the best we have seen him. But in that he had 9 attempts. He had 6 completions, one of which went for a 63 yard TD. Which basically was a slant pass that Watson just outran everyone. So the stats look good, but are a bit inflated by that play. That being said, his pocket awareness, his master of the offense was much improved. His throws while not perfectly accurate, he had some great throws. One was dropped by Jones down the sideline.
This game was the first time that made me feel like we do maybe have the next QB in Love. But it was 9 attempts. Hard to proclaim anything after just 9 attempts.
Whatever happens, happens. I will still be here to support my team. Go Pack Go!
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 11:08 am
I'll try to answer you on this post with all respect I feel for another Packers fan.
Ready and Grateful - Your pointing how this ACR discussion(s) always find a way to every topic authors posted here on CHTV tells you one important issue. How deep is the problem with one employee/player of this team. Because everything what is questioned about Packers finally ends with some, larger or smaller, influence of ACR status at Packers football operation. And that is why every task you are talking about is polluted with his presence and behavior. From SC issue, draft, roster composition, team, coaches, FO, game plans, play calling, number of target, usage of players, etc. He (ACR) put his stamp on all football operation issues. And that is not neithergood or desirable.
QB of the Future - It is interesting that you try to start discussion about future Packers team with Jordan Love as starter, with negative premise on his capabilities and readiness. On quite a lot previos discussions about Jordan Love you were stating that Jordan Loven is "obviously not ready, and that is the reason why Packers decided to conrtinue with ACR". Many of us here was listening what his teammates are telling us about his readiness and all of them claimed that he is more than ready to be starter (Campbell: "he is already better over more than half of league starters!"; Allen Lazard: "He is ready!", Aaron Jones: "He is snowballing again and again and again. He is ready (to be starter)!"; Aaron Rodgers: "He is ready to be starter!"). Than we saw him vs Eagles (SB team!) in 4Q. He was poised as starter and made really impressive performance, especially when you have to take into consideration how exciteb must he been for finally have opportunity to show what he learned and what he is capable of.
So, you are willing to be fond on suspicios conclusion how MLF & FO does not have confidence in him than to opinion from his team matesnand your own eyes. OK.
And, maybe you'll get more acceptable answers (for you) if you tried to start the discussion on the thesys "what if Jordan Love will be above average QB for Packers". Try to think positively on future, not from fear of tomorrow. After all, world future are on young ones, not on old and spent.
Do you believe in Love? - This will be short. While I admit that Jordan Love might not be good (we can not possibly say he could!), I believe Packers have 3rd HOF QB on the roster.
Before anyone start to spit on me, I'll repeat: I believe!
Thank you!
RCPackerFan
February 15, 2023 at 11:49 am
I get the significance of the QB. I get that the team is at a cross roads. But we are beating a dead horse at this point. Everyone has stated their opinions and feelings at this point. So do we need to regurgitate the same things daily? That is where I'm at with this whole thing.
Jordan Love was not ready last year to take over. That was clear by the fact that the Packers resigned Rodgers. Anyone that said he was ready to take over is either lying to themselves or wanted Rodgers gone so badly they just wanted Love to take over.
I don't get what I said about Love that is untrue. None of us know what he is capable of. We have no idea how good or bad he will be. I hope he is going to be great, but we just haven't seen enough from him. We aren't at practices and behind closed doors to hear how the Packers feel about him. Basically we have 1 half game is all that we have seen from him this year. And I will admit after that game I felt much better about him as a pro QB.
You can listen to what players have said. But how many teammates would go out and say, you know what he sucks, if he starts we are screwed. I don't think many teammates would say that. So you can listen to what they say, but at the same time you have to understand that side of it too.
But my main point is the that us as fans haven't seen very much from Love. We don't know how ready he truly is, nor how good he is. My points about changing QB's are geared more towards the front office. That they have to know if he is ready or not, and have to have some feeling at how good he might be based on what they have seen during practices. If he isn't ready and they make the move to go to him, and he really struggles then what happens? They have to feel very good about making that move.
Funny thing is I'm one of the most optimistic fans you will ever meet. I am trying to be realistic with Love. And being realistic about the future of the Packers. Because we don't know how good Love will be. Can he be great? Sure. But it doesn't mean he will be.
If the Packers make the move and trade Rodgers and go to Love, they have to know Love is at least good. And at least a top half of the league QB.
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 01:30 pm
"Jordan Love was not ready last year to take over. That was clear by the fact that the Packers resigned Rodgers."
I have no doubts that Jordan Love was not as ready as he is now. But his readiness might have boost with starting him as starter QB last season. And I'm sure that FO knows that. There would be painful mistakes, no doubt, but the learning curve would be excellerated by playing real football, not just practicesor preseason.
And Packers did not restructured ACR contract because Jordan Love was not ready, but because "they are not idiots" to trade fading QB 2 time MVP. But, at that time, future showed them "they were idiots". 8-9 record, 3rd at division behind f*cking Lions.
If you wantto sell assets, you are selling them when that assets can achieve highest price. Not when theyare at bottom. That is plain stupid from business point of view. And today NFL is nothing but business, isn't it?
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 01:58 pm
"If the Packers make the move and trade Rodgers and go to Love, they have to know Love is at least good. And at least a top half of the league QB."
I would argue that it means that they don't see continuing to push the chips to the middle on a yearly basis to be a sustainable way of doing business, and that they don't feel like they have the horses to have more than a hail-Mary chance at a title on their current path.
Again, in most scenarios, I don't think it's a measure of them saying that in 2023 or 2024 Jordan Love will win an SB. I think it's them saying that they can't keep doing what they're doing and hope to come out ahead...their resources are dwindling as 12 gets further into his contract, and their ability to provide the extra support a descending player needs just isn't there.
...we might also need to realize that if the Packers trade 12, we'll never know the full story why or who was the prime mover--but we'll know that both sides agreed to it.
CheesyTex
February 15, 2023 at 09:15 pm
Best overview comment that I've seen.
CheesyTex
February 15, 2023 at 09:15 pm
Best overview comment that I've seen.
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 02:50 pm
I dont know if I believe in Love but im sure you can not trust a weak Diva like AR if you want to win something. Thats the facts, he is giving us since 2012.
If important wins were a QB stat AR would never end up in the HOF but anyway...we play for the Lombardy and thats not his thing at all.
chemtrailers have other goals.......
TarynsEyes
February 15, 2023 at 08:58 am
A lot of people here, fully expecting divorce papers to be finalized. With this much money involved, these type of proceedings likely get delayed until a better financial situation is guaranteed. Likely another year. If so, the Packers may need to figure out another possible divorce with the one, so many here today, have professed their LOVE for. I mean, if you're told to get off the altar of starting QB's, again, you should expect the possibility of a runaway groom.
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 09:39 am
“Knowing me, knowing you
There is nothing we can do
Knowing me, knowing you
We just have to face it
This time we're through
Breaking up is never easy, I know
But I have to go
Knowing me, knowing you
It's the best I can do”
ABBA.
Swisch
February 15, 2023 at 12:07 pm
It's great to have the conversation here at CHTV lifted up now and again up by a reference to classic poetry.
It reminds me when Homer Simpson was at the stage performance of a musical version of "The Planet of the Apes," starring Troy McClure.
"I love legitimate theater," said Homer.
On another occasion, he said to his wife, "Marjorie please, I enjoy all the meats of our cultural stew."
I have a connection with that guy. He's even a huge football fan, although unfortunately his team is the Dallas Cowboys.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=annalie+and+abby+johnson&form=WNSGPH&qs=LT...
greengold
February 15, 2023 at 12:17 pm
You totally forgot: "Uh-huhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 09:44 am
Love Hurts.
LeotisHarris
February 15, 2023 at 11:05 am
The Justice of the Peace is never concerned with the intentions of those before them. A runaway groom, even one *with* divorce papers firmly tucked under his arm, can easily be tracked if the hounds are ready and on his scent. River crossings be damned. If no one will grind the wheat, then many are left to ask, after the departure of what some thought would never be, but almost always was; who will carry the G?
PatrickGB
February 15, 2023 at 09:32 am
It. Is. Time!
Ilchzhead48
February 15, 2023 at 09:40 am
The offense has been made very vanilla since Aaron's new contract. All because he feels it's too complex. Please, you're being paid something north of 3 million a game so you need to run what the coaches decide. Getting really frustrated with how Coach LaFluer's offensive genius is being shelved by a quarterback that doesn't want to do it. Loved Rodgers for years, but it's time for Jordan Love to shine.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 15, 2023 at 09:59 am
Its not about the complexity. Thats just the excuse he made this past year to deflect blame from himself. He hates pre snap motion and has said as much for years. Even said it on a pro-Bears podcast when he basically called his own head coach a try hard. Meanwhile, Mahomes and the Chiefs just won the super bowl mainly by pre snap motioning the eagles defense into submission. But what do i know? Im just an old school baffoon trapped in the age of ayahuasca.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 02:05 pm
"The offense has been made very vanilla since Aaron's new contract. "
Sadly, I'd say back to about the Arizona game in 2021...that's the last time we really saw this offense in motion for a full game.
The Packers knew what they were buying.
LambeauPlain
February 15, 2023 at 09:50 am
No Love for Rodgers?
Well then, I hope Training camp 2023 can be the Summer of Love.
Booner
February 15, 2023 at 10:39 am
No Rodgers + J Love as your 2023 starting QB are you kidding me? If the Love Boat was any good they would have traded Rodgers last season and moved on then! Be careful what you ask for. HOF QB's just don't fall out of the sky!! Go ask the Bears! This management team starting with Murphy , Gute and MLF suck! I would rather have Forrest Gump running the Packers than these IDIOTS!
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 02:29 pm
Yeah your right its a shame than a absolut chemtrail idiot like AR running the greatest footballteam on this planet. An idiot who always find a way to loooooose when it counts, who one just once and acts like he always did.
Man, he should keep drinking his urin somewhere else and be thankfull we picked him up at 24.
Bad leader, even worse play off QB..........go ask Rogan where you should go but please go.
JerseyAl
February 15, 2023 at 07:58 pm
just a little note that you are wearing out your welcome for spamming the comment section with the same thing over and over. If that's all you have to contribute, I think we can do without it.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:25 am
Thats a strawman argument. They couldve felt Love's progression was right on schedule while still thinking rodgers gave them the better chance to win right now. Both ideas can exist at the same time and is likely closer to the truth of the matter.
BoHunter
February 15, 2023 at 10:55 am
12 is 11-10 career in the playoffs and 1-4 in NFCCGs, boy he’s really made SFO pay for not drafting him!
Why are free agents not willing to take team friendly deals just to come play with 12 ? The GOAT 🐐 Brady was always willing to take a smaller piece of the cake to allow the team to bring in more quality free agents to win Super Bowls, and the GOAT was 35-12 in the playoffs.
Rodgers can’t even show up for any camp that’s non-mandatory to work with our young receivers and develop some chemistry, then he blames them for running wrong routes and they haven’t earned his trust, what a joke . Rodgers is a Diva and not a Leader, has held this team hostage for too long. 12 needs to go so MLF can show us if he truly has a sack once he doesn’t have to worry about hurting Princess’s feelings.
The Love Gun is ready, I can’t wait to watch Tank Top when 12 is wearing a different jersey.
Time to reload with a bigger shell from 12 to 10 gauge 💪🏿 👍
Cheers,
BoHunter
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 11:05 am
"Time to reload with a bigger shell from 12 to 10 gauge."
I am riding with you, I CALL SHOTGUN!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:30 am
BoHunter, you wanna hear something crazy? Brady has 15 career 4th qtr game winning playoff drives. Rodgers has 2. Brady has more 4th qtr winning playoff drives than Rodgers has playoff wins. If there ever was a stat that could perfectly illustrate the wide gap between two players, this is it. Rodgers is unbelievable until the big game comes. Brady for the most part has been great all the time but is at his absolute best when the pressure is the highest. The bigger the moment, the better he played.
PS: "Love Gun" is brilliant lol. 10/10.
croatpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 11:25 am
Al, all I can say, another masterpiece of article. Thank you!
Swisch
February 15, 2023 at 11:27 am
This good offering from Jersey Al provides more evidence that fans can make a difference by voicing their views. I even have to wonder if the media is influenced by what they hear from the fans.
Recently, we had a report that Aaron Jones has been following CHTV, and cares about what it has to say. He was upset about one article here that put forth reasons not to keep him, but I hope he realizes that at CHTV we explore all sides of an issue, including reasons to keep Aaron Jones.
(As far as I can tell, Jones is greatly appreciated and widely admired here at CHTV, although there is concern about whether we can afford his current contract, and if there needs to be restructuring.)
It's hard to measure the weight of the influence of CHTV, including fan comments, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was significant.
Of course, the front office can ignore what fans are saying about such matters as moving on from Aaron Rodgers, but at their own peril.
I'm not saying the front office should run operations based on the fans, but that it would be stupid to ignore what the fans have to say.
We provide an admittedly limited, but still quite valuable, perspective.
***
Also, I would think it would have Rodgers thinking twice about coming back to Green Bay, or whether a fresh start elsewhere is in his best interest.
Rodgers may like his cozy relationship in Green Bay interfering with the front office -- and be reluctant to give that up -- but he may also perceive that his act is wearing thin with the people who care about, and pay attention to, the Packers the most.
***
I've written that the domineering arrogance of Rodgers is the fault line around which the Packers crack and crumble under pressure. The heartbreaks of the final games of the past three seasons seem to bear that out.
The dysfunction he is causing would seem to adversely affect everyone associated with the team, including all the players.
It's nice to get some affirmation -- from the media quote cited by Jersey Al --that I may not be totally crazy in having such old-fashioned ideals to the effect that character counts in building a team that is a winner on and off the field.
The players on the Packers aren't robots, but human beings with a sense of fairness about their interactions with the front office, coaches, teammates, and fans.
They are motivated by a lot more than just money, because they are like us.
Players want to care about their jobs, and their team, as more than just business; but, in my opinion, this requires that fans genuinely care about the players as more than just business.
We can't keep these guys as Packers forever, but we can let it be known that we think of them as more than a just a stat sheet. The more fans who do so, the greater the ripple effect, and the better the atmosphere around the team.
Players will get the message that Green Bay is a place that cherishes its players, and that will matter for the good of all concerned. People thrive when they are appreciated.
Let's communicate that these young men are part of our community of Packerdom -- one of us -- and we truly want to encourage them as players and persons.
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 12:50 pm
Swish, don't set up the Viking fans by calling me part of Packerdumb. LOL.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:37 am
6 downvotes for humanizing humans. I just dont get it Swisch. Imo, this is one your greatest posts yet. I wonder if people downvote you cuz they dont have the patience to read your comments lol.
Swisch
February 16, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Thanks much, RTS.
I try to write short paragraphs to make it easier to read my longer comments, but I can see that at times people may not be in the mood for long.
***
On another note, it seems some people do want to make football into just a business, and players into just stat sheets juxtaposed with their salaries.
This strikes me as odd, because I would think these people would want to be treated with real appreciation at their own jobs.
We do better when we're treated better.
Why wouldn't that be considered good business?
BirdDogUni
February 15, 2023 at 12:02 pm
LOVE GUN BABY
pantz_bURp
February 15, 2023 at 12:09 pm
Oh boyyyy, little BBs gonna be running all over the place...
BirdDogUni
February 15, 2023 at 12:12 pm
BoHunter stole my thunder... Kudos to you. I had a whole rant planned, but now I save 30 minutes... Lol
Suffice it to say, Love Is The Answer...
Packers0808
February 15, 2023 at 12:23 pm
The only way Rodgers goes somewhere is IF he retires, which doubt will happen. GB home thing is where he will be if he plays!
BirdDogUni
February 15, 2023 at 12:58 pm
No, no it's not...
We could easily trade him.
Packers0808
February 15, 2023 at 01:34 pm
No they couldn't easily, Rodgers has to okay ANY TRADE. If he doesn't?
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 02:58 pm
Retirement is AR's only veto power. He doesn't have a no trade clause.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:38 am
But its basically the same thing. Nobody's trading for him unless he commits to that team first.
MainePackFan
February 16, 2023 at 01:32 pm
In essence, it is. At the end of the day, Rodgers controls whether he retires or accepts the trade if the Packers decide to move on.
BirdDogUni
February 15, 2023 at 08:39 pm
Again, you're wrong.
Gutey can trade him to anyone he wants.
I never said he would play for them, but if he wants to get paid he will.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:40 am
Yes he could do that. But its not gonna happen. If he decides he wants to be traded, Rodgers will give them a list of a few teams he would agree to play for and Packers will trade him to which ever one of those teams makes the best offer. Otherwise he either plays in GB or retires. Theres zero chance Gute just trades him without Rodgers approving it first.
MainePackFan
February 16, 2023 at 01:36 pm
"Theres zero chance Gute just trades him without Rodgers approving it first"
This is absolutely true.
Bitternotsour
February 15, 2023 at 05:24 pm
I think you're correct. The only real deterrent the team has is through naming Love the starter before training camp. Rodgers on the bench for his last season would be an ego impairment of some significant note.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Remember my fellow CCTV friends…opinions are like sphincter muscles…everyone has one! Different opinions are what makes CCTV so entertaining, so let’s get everyone’s opinion about the upcoming draft with particular focus on the offense. Yes, we all know the Packers could use help through the draft on offense, defense, and special teams. The defense was a major disappointment this year but frankly it was the offense that really let us down in games the defense played well (think both Lion games). In years past, it has been my sentiment the Packers (Gutey & Ted) try being the ‘Little Dutch Boy’ who at draft time tries plugging all the holes in the dike (roster) by drafting for need at the various positions. When the Packers do this, they seriously dilute the talent level for both offense & defense. Because of this approach the Packers tend to never be dominant & highly successful on either side of the ball. We all know the Packers have invested a significant amount of draft capital over the years on defense largely overlooking the offense. If AR is traded as many of us think and it is Jordan Love’s time to lead the offense, I strongly believe the Packers need to blitz and significantly beef up the Packers offense in the early rounds (let’s say through round 4) in the draft. By doing this the Packers will once again become a dominant offensive force, which will only benefit Jordan Love become successful. Multiple mid-round and late round draft choices in 2023 combined with FA should be the Packers plan to strengthen the defense. Plus, the hope is the Packers get one or two high draft choices in 2024, which could be used to help the defense.
It is hard to contemplate & plan for the upcoming draft without knowing whether AR is back with the Packer, or if he is traded. Folks….retirement is not even a remote possibility. Ain’t happening! Therefore, because I simply cannot fathom Rodgers being back in Green Bay my analysis of the upcoming Packer draft needs always focuses on AR being traded to one of the following teams:
1. Rodgers is traded to the Raiders for (#7 selection in round 1, #38 selection in round 2, & #70 selection in 3rd round). Whether true or not, I have found 100 draft simulator trades out of 100 says this trade would be accepted, so let’s assume for now it would be.
2. Otherwise, Rodgers is traded to the NY Jets for (#13 selection in round 1, #43 selection in round 2, and #74 selection in round 4). Whether true or not, I have found 100 draft simulator trades out of 100 says this trade would be accepted, so let’s assume for now it would be.
My questions for my fellow Packer draft nerds relate to the offense & whether this is the year Gutey goes all in and creates an offensive juggernaut? It is my deepest hope Gutey goes all in on offense early to the consternation of my defensive minded CCTV friends. :)
1. When the Packers turn arrives at #7 (by the way, I want to stress I only want Quentin Johnston, WR) but the following players usually are still on the board (based on many….many draft simulator attempts) who do you select?
a. QB’s – C.J. Stroud, Will Levis, or say a Anthony Richardson? No one has been an advocate for Jordan Love than myself here at CCTV as I really do believe he is going to be a good QB. However, Love still is untested and if he fails it could be years before the Packers have a shot at another top QB. Furthermore, even if Love turns out well the Packers still need a quality back-up QB. If Stroud, Levis, or Richardson is available at the #7 selection if you are Gutey do you select one at this spot to increase your odds of success, or do you pass up one of these highly talented QB’s? Down the road you could certainly trade one for draft choices to a team needing a QB.
b. WR’s – sometimes I see Quentin Johnston go as high as #5 but usually he is gone around #10 - #12. Occasionally, I see him available at #13 (meaning he might be available for the Packers should they trade with the Jet’s). My favorite WR’s for round 1 are Johnston, Jordan Addison, Jaxon Smith – Njiba, Zay Flowers, and Josh Downs. Josh Downs and Parker Washington would be great picks in round 2. With a Raiders trade and the Packers now owning #7, and #15 in round 1, more often than not both Quentin Johnston, and Jordan Addison who are arguably the best WR’s in the draft are available. Yes, we have young but a frequently injured Christian Watson, and Romeo Doubs where there is still some unknown about them. With an opportunity to take the two best WR’s to beef up the WR position would you do it? The addition of these two WR’s along with Watson & Doubs would likely allow the Packers to have the best overall WR’s in the league. Do you take them early putting other needs on hold knowing the selections would most likely allow the offense, and Jordan Love to become dominant and a powerhouse in the NFL?
c. TE’s – I have watched all the video’s of the top TE’s (like I have done with the WR’s) and my assessment is while Michael Mayer is a very good TE who I like, I tend to believe my preference would be for either Darnell Kincaid, or Luke Musgrave. Kincaid & Musgrave are more athletic and can get down the field better than Mayer. They are significantly quicker versions of Kelce. There is a good possibility all three TE’s go in round 1, or at least two go in round 1 with the 3rd going within the first 1-3 selections of round 2. There is also one more TE who I really like that I would rank pretty darn close to Kincaid & Musgrave in Sam LaPorta. He is very athletic with good hands and can get down the field. I might even compare LaPorta closer to Mayer.
Remember…based on the Raider trade scenario the Packers would have two draft selections in round 2 at #38, and at #45. None of the TE’s draft value matches up well with the #13 & #15 picks in round 1, including Mayer! With 4 very good TE’s available what do you do? As I have stated my preference would be either Kincaid, Musgrave, or Mayer, but the value does not match up well in round 1 with the Packer draft picks. All three will likely be long gone by the time the Packers draft at #38. With the need for a top quality TE I’d snatch Sam LaPorta with the #38 selection. If you thought, he would be available maybe cross your fingers and try selecting him at #45.
By the way, for you Mercedes Lewis fans it is time to let him go. The good thing for draft nerds’ look-up and watch Darnell Washington who is a younger version of Lewis. He is 6’ 7” and 270 lbs. and he may even be slightly more athletic than Lewis at the same age. I’d be all over him as the 2nd TE selection in say the 3rd or 4th round.
Yes, I believe the Packers need a good Tackle to develop and certainly could use a mid-round running back, as well as a developmental QB on offense. However, I believe these positions could be taken later in the draft. Is it time for the Packers to really focus on making the offense dominant throwing a lot of draft capital early in the 2023 draft, while using mid-round and later to focus on defense. There really is no super good Safety talent outside of Brian Branch but he is usually gone really early. More and more this offseason with the lack of Safety talent available in the draft I am thinking it is high time Rasul Douglas is moved to Safety this offseason and the Packers draft a mid-round CB.
Fellow draft nerds….curious on your thoughts?
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 01:10 pm
Wow, Snot. That took a while. Well thought out.
One consideration before I think more about your picks is the status Bajk. Might have to direct more on the O-line if he's not around. Even if the existing pieces are there for starters (with questions at center) we have to build up the backups because we wasted time on Newman and Ryan. Do you think Jones will take a big step? That would help with your reasoning.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 01:46 pm
Thanks Steve!
It did take awhile for sure. Normally, every year I want an OL early because of the importance but this year I think a mid-round tackle in say the 5 - 6 rounds would be okay. I did not forget about Bajk when typing my above post because frankly, I think the Pack are in okay shape at the position, particularly if they resign Nijman. I will admit through most of 2022 I did feel Bajk should not be brought back in 2023. My feelings based on his productivity in 2022 is he warrants a return because of his play & his importance to the offense. The Packers got lucky with Zach Tom, & Jenkins can be a swing OT. However, I have some optimism the Packers may have some good development players in guys like Rasheed Walker & Caleb Jones. I have also not completely given up on guards Royce Newman & Sean Rhyan.
Leatherhead
February 15, 2023 at 01:40 pm
Knock, I always trade down. I trade down from #15 with the Cardinals and get their picks at #34, #66, and #96. And when I can trade Rodgers for draft picks, like on PFF's siimulator, I usually get #38 and #70 and the Raiduhs first round pick next year.
So, I start the draft on Day Two, with picks at #34, #38, #45, #66, #70, #75, and #96.
I always get a TE, either Washington or Kincaid. A couple of times, I've gotten them both. I usually get Cedric Tillman at WR.
I try to get a safety and an edge, and the edge I get quite a bit of the time is the guy from Northwestern, Adetomiwe Adebawore. If I don't take a safety at #34, I usually end of with Skinner later.
I get the OT Blake Freeland quite a bit, and the center from Wisconsin, Tippman, who has moved all the way up to #62 on PFFs board.
And I always take a RB. Usually Roschon Johnson, but sometimes other guys.
That's 7, and I think they'd all be guys we'd dress out.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 01:51 pm
LH,
My ideal day 1 is for the Packers to make the trade to the Raiders for their first three picks. Then because the Jets want a good QB (whether that would be a young QB I don't know) that the Packers could somehow turn around and trade the #7 pick they got from the Raiders and pick-up the Jets #13 and their #2 pick. This unlikely scenario (or dream scenario) would give the Packers the #13, and two additional 2nd round picks, and an additional 3rd round pick meaning the Packers would not need to move back with their own picks. However, if this dream scenario worked out the Packers would likely want to trade up late in the draft because they would have too many picks & players, particularly if they add 3 supplemental draft players. This is where I would see the Packers actually bundling some picks to move up would be at the end of the draft.
Leatherhead
February 16, 2023 at 11:46 am
Knock, that'd be a lot. The #3? Plus a high second and third? That's kind of pricey, IMO. Maybe that's why the latest rumors are that LV actually prefers Garrapolo.
Evrything...everything....I'm reading says that the Jets would like to have Rodgers as their QB. The defense is there, the RB is there, but they lost a bunch of games where they couldn't . They had 10 games of 17 or less and lost 9 of them and finished 7-10. They were held under 10 points in FIVE games. So yeah, they could use Rodgers, even if it's just to take care of the ball. Zach Wilson had a passer rating of about 72, and I can't believe that Rodgers couldn't do better than that.
As regards your comment about having too many picks and players, the NFL roster stands at 69 now, with liberal rules about activating PS players, so essentially any one of those 69 could be playing in a game. We need the core of 45 guys....21 offense, 21 defense, 3 special teams guys.
I basically view all the draft picks after the 4th round as guys who you probably want to start on your practice squad. .
I do like the idea of using some of those late picks to move up in the draft and get the guys you want. For example, there's a guy we want who is available at around 65, but we don't pick until 78, unless we package some picks and move up to take him. Gutekunst has done that in the past.
Cheezehead72
February 15, 2023 at 01:54 pm
I do not start to provide my opinion on who the Packers should draft until right before the draft. After the beginning of FA and the combine. Right now I just look at players.
The Packers should take the BAP that is an edge, safety, OT, WR, TE, and RB with their first few picks. I do like those three TEs you mentioned but do not forget about Darnell Washington TE, Georgia. He is a very good blocking TE and has good hands. He is 6'7" and 270 lbs. He might be available when we pick in the 2nd. Also remember TEs have the worst chance of becoming an All Pro.
dobber
February 15, 2023 at 02:10 pm
"Remember my fellow CCTV friends…opinions are like sphincter muscles…everyone has one! "
Actually we have lots...
https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-a-sphincter-1945068
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 15, 2023 at 02:49 pm
LOL!
Coldworld
February 15, 2023 at 07:01 pm
Fit me a lot depends on who we choose to keep or succeed in doing so. There is the potential difference in strategy depending on QB but that may also impact players like Tonyan, Jones, Bakh, Amos etc. having or not having them changes priorities somewhat. We are also close to the annual combine shake up.
I’d go S or TE/WR/DL if need were driving, but where we pick we might get an elite value but equally could be looking to trade down. I don’t think it’s all that likely that Branch/Johnston/Myers will be available. If one is, I think we stand pat and take them. Otherwise I’m leaning to trading back. We could use extra day one/two players in my opinion.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:45 am
Unless a top offensive lineman falls, Im still going defense in the first round again. 1st round receivers ans tight ends are a crap shoot. This offense already has a ton of talent. Unfortunately, it also has is the wrong qb/scheme for the talent that has been acquired. If Love is the starter, I expect a return to the 2020 offense in which guys like Watson, Doubs, Dillon and Deguara will make more sizable impacts and the offense as a whole will be better than it has been the last 2 years under Rodgers' offense. Nothing wrong with going defense first round then getting offensive skill guys in rounds 2-4.
crayzpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 01:17 pm
Let's just hope if Jordan Love has massive success, he doesn't turn diva, thus becoming a story of “Endless Love”
Cheezehead72
February 15, 2023 at 01:43 pm
I agree. Too much drama in GB with Favre and Rodgers. I watch football to see the game I do not want drama.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:50 am
Hes too humble for that. With the death of his father, Love has been dealing with adversity since before he could even drive. Playing football at the highest level wont even be the hardest thing hes done in his life. Rodgers was already known to have personality red flags when he was drafted, which was likely why he fell so far in the first place. Other than getting busted for weed (which i couldnt care less about) Love has no behavioral red flags that Im aware of. Id be shocked if he ended up turning into a diva.
wildbill
February 15, 2023 at 01:28 pm
Kizer 2.0
crayzpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 01:50 pm
Mr. Bill. What's with all this Kizer 2.0 stuff? Kizer was suspect when we traded for him. Love doesn't have even an eighth of the body of work Kizer had. I understand though. You are a contrarian who throws whatever they can against a wall to see if it sticks.
Bitternotsour
February 15, 2023 at 05:26 pm
troll, contrarian, or just a random racist. tough to call.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:52 am
My money is on racist troll. He doesnt comment on any other topics here. Only spams the same comment on any Love-related articles.
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 03:59 pm
You nailed watch AR was.........he has not much more throphies than Kizer. The difference between the weak urin guy and Kizer is one. One!
Between the chemtrailer and Brady 6! 6.
Think about it, AR is just Kizer with a little more luck and a tiny bit more of success. Cheers.......we should life one or two glasses from our own stuff......
So yeahhhh....AR is Kizer 1.5..........thats all he is.......a richer, stranger Kizer with total crazy "friends"
LeotisHarris
February 15, 2023 at 04:14 pm
"You nailed watch AR was.........he has not much more throphies than Kizer."
Nationwide, on average, 79% of U.S. adults are literate in 2023. 54% of U.S. adults can't read a book written at 6th grade level.
Cheezehead72
February 15, 2023 at 01:42 pm
You are referring to present day Rodgers correct?
crayzpackfan
February 15, 2023 at 01:51 pm
Yes
Charvid
February 15, 2023 at 01:59 pm
This applies to MLF, as well as Jordan Love…
We’re all worried about neither of them being as good as we thought they were and feeling disillusioned by it.
It is important to remember what that word means…
To be dis- illusioned is to have the “illusion” taken away. We get to the truth that way which is ALWAYS a good thing! If Love is not our future, or if MLF is not the coach we thought he was, or hoped for, it’s better to have that illusion torn away sooner rather than later.
It may not feel good, but getting at the truth is important.
croatpackfan
February 16, 2023 at 07:53 am
So true! It does not matter how painful truth might be, it will be move to correct you path to the right direction.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 16, 2023 at 11:53 am
Lafleur is the real deal. We saw it in 2020, which was the only year Rodgers actually bought into Lafleur's philosophy. This offense ran by Lafleur/Love can be special.
packanimal
February 15, 2023 at 01:59 pm
Almost 200 comments and no acknowledgment that the title of Al's piece calls out a classic tune, which starts about 1:20 into clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSlO_g6-ZXM
JerseyAl
February 15, 2023 at 02:38 pm
thanks for the link - had never seen that rendition.
packanimal
February 15, 2023 at 02:41 pm
You're very welcome. I appreciate your weekly contributions every time.
fastmoving
February 15, 2023 at 02:36 pm
Please give him away for free, he is not worth all the drama. He had one great season when it counts and act like he is some version of Brady. Just 20 years older.
He makes the Packers, the greatest team on this planet, unwatchable. Sucking all the fun out of football. And that all that drama for what. That he looooooses again when it count or before?
How can anyone believe this guy is any smart, or worth 50 M or beeing a halfway decent human being?
A weak dramaqueen who just cares about himself........
JerseyAl
February 15, 2023 at 02:42 pm
You must be fun at parties. And how many times are you going to post the same thing? You might be a looooooooser yourself...
T7Steve
February 15, 2023 at 02:57 pm
Closet Viking fan?
Sounds like you're going to have a big party tonight Al.
MainePackFan
February 15, 2023 at 03:26 pm
Awesome Jersey Al!!!! "Taking care of business", another classic :)
Packerpasty
February 16, 2023 at 11:35 am
I don't find the Packers unwatchable at all...still my team no matter who's the QB...and truth be told AR has been in some very fun watchable games...perhaps it is time to move on from him but they sure aren't unwatchable. Your hate must run real deep...
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