Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - LaFleur is Wilting

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Last week I used the title "The bloom is off the LaFleur." Well this week, never mind blooming on not, LaFleur (the flower) is wilting in the heat. Here, I though last week's game plan was bad! What a doozy this one was! Coach LaFleur has no idea what this team does well and what it's identity should be. It's like he's picking  random plays out of a hat. There is little cohesion and few play calls and sequences make sense. Nothing is being run to set up a future play. And this was after a mini-bye where they supposedly did a self scout!

I was disappointed but not surprised or overly upset after the Lions game, because frankly, I expected the Packers to get handed their head on a platter by the Lions. But the Raiders? I kept reading all week how this was a "get right" game for Green Bay and I bought into that. Well it turned out to be a "get right" game all right, but for the Raiders instead.

Ugly Love - I have to call it as I saw it - this was an ugly performance for Jordan Love. I gave him a pass in the Lions game because of the constant pressure he was in. But there was no excuse here. It wasn't even the interceptions, I only fault him for the first one. He was off on some rather simple passes by yards, not feet. It was a rough outing, but we all knew there could be days like this. I'm keeping the faith and I will add that I don't think LaFleur did him any favors with the unimaginative WR route schemes (reminiscent of McCarthy's "go get open" period).

Tracking the ball - I don't think Watson was running at 100%, but that aside, the one thing he needs to work on over the next year is tracking the ball in the air, especially on the deep throws. He often makes catches more difficult than they have to be, when he could be catching balls in stride.

Left-Handed - Can someone explain to me why so many of the Packers' designed rollouts are to the left side, where throws are much more difficult for a right-handed quarterback?

The Winner - If we had to pick one true winner from last night, it would have to be Anders Carlson, and how many of you had that on your bingo card? Anders easily won the brother vs. brother competition and is still perfect through five games. 

Edge Coverage - This means something different in Joe Barry's defense. It means the edge rushers has to drop in coverage and try to cover receivers. The result is certainly what you would expect. Preston Smith was asked to do this four times, with Van Ness and Enagbare also getting a turn. The question is why? Watching Preston try to provide some kind of resistance to Davante Adams and Jakobi Meyers was just sad to see, I felt really bad for him that he was put into that position.

Unclean Sweep - The Christian Watson sweep that went for -5 yards - where do I begin? The first thing you want to do on a play like that is fool the defense. Get them going one way and then change the path of the ball. When the ball is snapped,, everyone is going left and the defense eagerly follows along. No fake or misdirection to hold the defenders a bit. Then, they run it to the short side of the field (and the Packers do this a lot). Why? Help Watson out by giving him a far sideline to try to get to if needed. Next, if you want any chance of success, you need to keep the DBs on the side you're running to honest by having receivers run routes at them and then eventually block. The one wide receiver on that side (Wicks) is instead tasked with trying to block a defensive end. With no receivers to worry about, the DBs come crashing down and blow up the play, aided by the fact that the blocking was terrible. The Packers have two double-teams going while the two players that combined to stop Watson went unblocked.

A few minutes after this play, the Raiders ran a similar type of sweep the correct way (misdirection, wide side of the field, WRs on that side running routes & blocking DBs).  I've spliced the two plays together here for comparison.

 

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

16 points
 

Comments (223)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Lare's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:07 am

On the bright side;

1. The Packers won't have as many prime time games next year, back to noon on Sundays.

2. Gute should have a pretty high draft pick next year to waste.

-1 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:28 am

Some of us do not live in the GB market so noon games are not a good thing.

3 points
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Rarescope's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:57 am

Or you could just use the internet to watch any game you want like I’ve been doing for going on ten years now.

-2 points
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mrtundra's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:03 am

Where I live, it doesn't matter what time the Packers are playing if the vikings are scheduled at the same time. The NFL scheduler has to be made aware of this, in markets like the Twin Cities' market that claims western Wisconsin as their viewing audience.

3 points
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fthisJack's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:38 am

I'm in the western Yoop so I have the same problem. Youtube and all the other streaming services want me to watch the Vikings.....NEVER gonna happen. So I am stuck with Spectrum (which I hate) but at least I get the Pack out of Duluth Superior and Bally Sports Detroit so I get Red Wings and Pistons games. Now the NFL and colleges are putting a lot of games on Peacock and Paramount. Eventually we will be paying big bucks to watch our favorite teams. NEVER gonna happen for this dude.

5 points
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HawkPacker's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:07 am

Or you could go to a bar, who have a zillion TV's that show all the games. I have to do that in Florida a bunch and really would rather stay home. It's always a tough decision.

3 points
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Turophile's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:03 am

A 'noon' game Central time is 6pm for me...........perfect.
On the other hand, late games mean (for me) staying up to about a quarter past one in the morning to start (meaning they finish about 4.30am).

This is an opportunity to repeat my regular rant that a good head coach should be dumping AT LEAST one of his coaches every year. The only way you get better is by removing the dead wood and replacing with fresh growth. Treat coaches the same way you do the team, always trying to get better.

At some point head coaches must stop hiring guys they have a history with and roll the dice for someone better.

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:42 am

"A 'noon' game Central time is 6pm for me"

Where do you live?

0 points
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dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 01:38 pm

Mukwonago...he just never sets his clocks.

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:24 pm

lol.

0 points
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Iain's picture

October 12, 2023 at 01:57 am

In the UK.

0 points
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packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 05:47 pm

Coach contracts are fully guaranteed so we would still be paying for the guys we get rid of. We would end up paying multiple coaches salaries while only having one of them as a coach on our team. It might be time to put that 'regular rant' in the dust bin.

The Packers ST coach debacle with not wanting to pay Darren Rizzi despite MLF wanting him as ST coach shows that it's not MLF who has final say on hiring coaching staff. It's MM and his concern is that the coaches are cheap. I'm willing to bet Joe Barry is a very, very cheap DC. The problem is not MLF it is MM.

2 points
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White92's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:16 pm

And you want Gutekunt to make the pick?

0 points
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Johnblood27's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:26 am

Thanks for that Al.

Coaching seems to be the number one issue with this team.

There are others, but with better coaching those issues fade a bit or just get identified as the appropriate areas mfor focused improvement.

Anders Carlson seems to be the real deal. His leg strength is unquestioned and now with some decent coaching and focus on accuracy and timing he seems to be embracing the successful lifestyle of a true NFL kicker. I still love you Mason, your years are all appreciated!

Where to find some sunshine in GB these days? Hmmm...

Momma told me there would be stretches like this. They have been few and far between for a looooong time now. I lived through the 70's, 80's and early 90's. This too shall pass. I just hope I am still breathing when this worm turns.

18 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:38 am

"I though last week's game plan was bad! What a doozy this one was! Coach LaFleur has no idea what this team does well and what it's identity should be."

Coldworld was the first one here that I can recall calling out MLF a few YEARS ago. We all KNEW Rodgers carried LaFleur at some level, I just don't think many of us, or at least myself realized just how much. Matt LaFleur is LOST. This offense is LOST. He has no idea how to put a player in a position to succeed. Everything looks SO HARD for them.

EVERYTHING, EVERY PLAY, looks like they have on cement shoes and are running uphill. NO creativity, something I was certain we'd see. The offense started to stink last season, even with Rodgers in the lineup. He played basically one solid game all season. Scratch that, the OFFENSE played one solid game last season in week 17 against Minnesota. I was POSITIVE it was all on Rodgers...I was wrong. It was the beginning of the end. Actually the loss to the 49ers was in the 2021 playoffs, I just didn't see it.

This year I thought, maybe HOPED, LaFleur would prove he was an NFL Head Coach. He's NOT. His entire offensive coaching staff is a joke other than Tom Clements. His defensive staff is just as bad after losing the ONE coach worth a damn when Jerry Gray actually quit they were so incompetent...Smart Guy.

It started in 2018 with the "SILOS of Mark Murphy. Like it or not, believe it or not, that was the beginning of the end. The START of a PEEK into what we see today. A visit or peek back into the 70's and 80's. I'm really afraid of that happening. LaFleur was MURPHYS guy and Gute has been the GM only in name. That's not to say Brian Gutekunst isn't without blame. I mean EVERYTIME I watch Patrick Taylor get the ball or block, I scream at my TV, really Gute, this is the BEST backup you can come up with???

I don't think this team is talentless...I think there's TONS of talent. But when I look at a staff with 20 some coaches and Rich Bisaccia is the ONLY one worth a damn, it makes it VERY clear. First and foremost it's a COACHING problem in GB. Moreso than anything else anyways.

GO PACK GO!

21 points
26
5
TKWorldWide's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:31 am

(They must have read your post: they just released Patrick Taylor.)

3 points
5
2
egbertsouse's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:45 am

Yeah, but they will re-sign him to the PS after he clears waivers. Unless we get lucky and he gets claimed. A person can dream.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:41 am

The issue isn’t Taylor. He had one carry for 5 yards and one stuffed in hand off. He’s a back up there to protect. The issue is that we won’t run Wilson to find out if he can, given repeated reps, do something.

It’s the old issue with LaFleur, anoint a group of players and refuse to change that till forced. That means never finding out if you can be better. So just keep repeating.

10 points
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Tundraboy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 05:58 pm

The single most maddening thing with him, and there are many. What I don't get is what does he have to lose? Hate to say it but some people are not decisive. Leaders and that includes coaches have to be. He is not.

1 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:53 am

He'll be back on the PS in no time. No need to worry about someone picking him up : )

4 points
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Racingdad's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:41 am

And now eligible for 3 more call ups

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:31 am

I saw yesterday that he isn't available to bring back up in GB. He is only available for call ups ff he is signed by another team's practice squad.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:19 am

Unless they changed the rule this off season and I missed it, that is incorrect.

A brief search did not reveal any such change. If so, once a player has passed through waivers, he is a free agent. His contract ended and he is unemployed. If he is resigned to the PS of any team, it resets call ups.

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:37 am

I believe that's correct.

0 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:20 am

I didn't see this until yesterday. I saw it on twitter.

Wendell Ferreira asked Jason_OTC if a player is elevated for gameday 3 times then signed to the active roster, released and re-signed to the PS by the same team, can he be elevated for gameday again? Does it reset the count?

Jason responded "Not with the same team. If he signs with a new team that team can elevate but once the max is reached with a particular team that should be it with that team."

Ken Ingalls also replied to Wendell with No.

So if they are right then Taylor can't be elevated anymore from the PS. He can only be added to the 53 from here on out.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 12:52 pm

That was not the case in prior seasons. We’ve actually made use of it at least once. This was introduced by the players in the CBA. It reset after passing through waivers. I can’t see any agreement to change that out there, but those can happen by letter exchange, if both sides agree. I suppose we will see.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:34 pm

Yeah i hadn't seen this anywhere else but there.

We shall see. I was with you on the rule, until I saw this yesterday.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:57 am

NP, obviously I am in agreement with what you say. For those reasons I have long said that this year was always going to be a clear test of coaching. There is no more Rodgers. It has proved to be as predicted.

I’ve said all along that there’s a difference between issues with execution and what the coaches are doing in terms of personnel and what it is asked to do. The test has been brutal in both phases. We are repeating patterns of failure. Execution may exacerbate but this remains a window into why the last dances were unsuccessful.

Unfortunately, LaFleur is not a Head Coach as an offensive guru or personnel manager. Until we accept that, this team won’t succeed regardless of the roster. That’s not a brave prediction, we have seen it in action for 3 years prior to the departure of Adams.

Until we move in from him, his culture and his coaches, we will continue to be out coached and to under perform when it matters, the only question is how far a given roster can get in spite of its coaches. Right now, that’s a lot less than a couple of years ago.

That’s why firing Barry now doesn’t get me excited. We can’t fix this without a clear out of the coaching crew on O and D. There’s not one that I believe has justified his position that was not imposed on LaFleur.

7 points
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3
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:34 am

He's in Year Five and doesn't have a philosophy to follow. There is no imprint depicting the La Fleur "way."

6 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:29 am

Zero Hour was 2008 when they hired this guy. The 2017 Draft was the precursor to an epic fail. Ted was not making the call on those draft picks. The junior executives coalesced for the King, Josh Jones, Montravious, Biegel bingo card. They were good with A.Jones and Williams who eventually contributed a couple of years later. Gutedkunst pushed for Josh Jones. He selected Gary after bringing in the high buck guys, over Burns etc. I will stand by my Kleen Haus recommendation.

3 points
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PackAttackJack's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:29 am

Am I wrong here, but didn't the Pack interview Dan Campbell after the 2018 season? I can only imagine what the future might have held. First of all, I think he would have put the Dark Prince in his place and we certainly wouldn't be looking at the dumpster fire this season is rapidly becoming. I'd say the Pack's chances against Denver after the bye week on the road are 50/50 at best.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:37 am

They never completed their interview process. Murphy in fact offered the job to Fitzpatrick, whom he promoted to HC at Northwestern. When he declined citing loyalty to the university, they began a true search. Murphy ended that after a hour with LaFleur, stating that he just knew that LaFleur was his man, had “quiet confidence”, was the “best prepared” and, in the plane back announced his decision and apparently no one disagreed in his words. He then had the interview process stopped before completing the first round.

4 points
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PackAttackJack's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:24 am

Thanks for the clarification. I can only wonder what could have been.

2 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:07 am

I was so over all the posters this summer so happy Rodgers was shown the door, so excited to see the really LaFleur offense. I kept thinking . . . be careful what you wish for. LaFleur does look lost. The fact he has so many more questions than answers in press conferences is not inspiring. It is making me miss McCarthy who came out pissed off after poor performances, vowed to fix what was wrong, and then basically did that, much of the time.

Yeah maybe the playoff failures and the rough year last year were not all Rodgers' fault. Maybe there's a reason he focused on Davante; maybe there's a reason they drafted 5 guys to catch passes in this last draft,

They have lost the successful coaches they did have under LaFleur.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 12:57 pm

It was still the right move. Rodgers lasted 4 snaps and saved us 60 million in cap in coming years. Was it a guarantee of Love or LaFleur? No. But it was necessary to move forward. In part that was allowing us to get cap healthy, in part to evaluate LaFleur. As to Love, his record is very close to Rodgers’ 4 games in to starting and in a worse team offensively. The jury is still out in Love and LaFleur’s struggles likely make evaluation harder and more protracted.

2 points
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2
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 01:54 pm

Nobody knows what 12 would've done in GB...he might still be healthy and playing if he'd stayed, but the bottom line was that he was the jug of milk in your fridge that says "October 9". You give it a sniff and it seems OK for now, but you never really know if you trust it, how long it will be good for, or whether it's just waiting to give you food poisoning.

12 himself was the one talking retirement--we've all been through that before--and he had a filthy contract. The contract was the fault of the Packers, but they found a way to get out from under it AND get some compensation.

All these folks snapping about 12 don't see the reality of the contract, his age, and the soured relationship on both sides. He needed to be done in GB...and it had little to do with who the understudy was. It was a necessary business decision, and making it when they did at least gave them a chance with a QB in hand rather than looking for a FA to start in July.

5 points
6
1
Ferrari-Driver's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:40 am

Nick, you may be down on Matt LaFleur and want to can his butt, BUT if you were the Packers General Manager, you couldn't do it. Perhaps Gute feels just as frustrated as many of the Packer fans here feel and he remains...with his hands tied.

4 points
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1
NickPerry's picture

October 12, 2023 at 06:09 am

I don't think Gute is a bad GM, I think he's a side victim of Murphy's plain. I agree with what you're saying...Except the part about Patrick Taylor...Whew!

2 points
3
1
Tundraboy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 04:29 pm

Spot on NP. Big picture perspective MLF has no business leading and running an NFL team. It's that simple. And at this point he is so clueless he is just throwing things out there and hoping something sticks. And of course if it did he would get cute and go away from it anyway.Let's hope for a coaching overhaul at some point before we lose our minds. GPG

1 points
2
1
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 05:56 pm

MM is definitely a problem.

If MLF was so bad this team wouldnt have won 13 games with support guys like MVS, Tonyan, Lazard... Its the young players all over the offense. Having so much youth at WR was a big problem last year and now we have more youth at not just WR but also at TE. And JLove has only 5 starts under his belt. There is a reason it takes young players 2-3 years to hit their stride and our offense is chock full of them. Its the youth, not the coaching.

-4 points
0
4
Cheezehead72's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:44 am

Once again another good article Al.

I became unhinged when MLF called a time out with 47 seconds left in the half when the Raiders were on offense and letting the clock run out. They should have scored 3 points. MLF got lucky but he made the defense play more plays and then they were out there after the half.

I agree this coaching staff has no direction or vision. There is no rhyme or reason on what they are doing. MLF should not be HC and calling plays. Not sure if he is a better HC or OC. Love being a new starter needs a coach that can spend more time with him. He needs the offensive architect to walk him through the plan and plays. MLF does not have the time to do that because he has his HC responsibilities. So it falls on a first time OC that is questionable on being able to handle the job and a 70 year old QBs coach that may not be able to relate to Love due to the 46 year age difference. That is almost two generations.

What they need to do is make coaching changes but not sure if that is a good thing during the season. The coaching staff (except for Bisaccia) needs to be changed. I would like to see Bisaccia as HC next season. One thing they could do is make MLF the OC and play caller and make Bisaccia the HC sometime this season. But we know Gute will not do that because he keeps people too long. Another thing they could do is bring in a middle age ex QB as a coach or consultant to Love to help him develop and give him a chance.

4 points
8
4
croatpackfan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:12 am

"But we know Gute will not do that because he keeps people too long."

Mark "we are not idiots" hired MLF, not Brian Gutekunst! MLF is at the same level as Brian Gutekunst. They both reporting to M "we are not idiots" M. So, it is not Brian Gutekunst who is keeping mentioned coaching staff on the team. This is the responsibility of Mr "We are not idiots"!

I can say several things I do not like through Brian Gutekunst performance, but he is not the one who should be calling regarding coaching staff and/or salary cap issues. I know that we are used that Packers GM have all responsibilities on team, but silos from Mr "We are not idiots" just stripped those responsibilities from Brian Gutekunst. His tasks are to provide players and, if needed, replacements for released, injured, traded or retired players by REQUESTS from coaching staff and salary cap situation. He has no authorities of any other issue. Those authorities are in the hands of Mr "We are not idiots (WANI)"!

8 points
9
1
Cheezehead72's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:44 am

You are right but realize that Gute waited to long to bench Savage, get rid of Amari Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers. Yes I will agree that MM probably did not allow Gute to trade Rodgers last year.

Everyone add MM to my comment. But this organization is notorious for living in the past and not pressing the boundries when making changes.

1 points
3
2
Cheezehead72's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:46 am

I forgot to mention I also would like to see MM fired but we know the B of D will not do that.

4 points
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0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:42 am

They all hang together @ the 19th Hole.

-1 points
0
1
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:45 am

Gute could have cut Savage. He did cut Amari, and Watkins, but Gute has no authority to make on field decisions as to who plays or how much. That is LaFleur’s responsibility and he only reports to Murphy. Yes, that’s crazy, but that is the structure Murphy put in place. Similarly, only Murphy can interfere with coaching hires or retention.

In real terms, Murphy is the GM and Gute his roster recruiter. Contract negotiations and extensions are also not in Gute’s power. That’s Ball. Ball too only reports to Murphy.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:05 pm

This result is predictable.

1 points
1
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Racingdad's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:44 am

It’s not gutes choice on coach’s !! It’s murphys call I would love RB as head coach as he seems like a guy with some fire unless mlf sapped that from him

7 points
7
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coolhand's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:31 am

MLF is in charge of the coaches, not gute or murphy. He hired barry and kept other incompetent coaches on his staff even though their performances were terrible.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:13 am

MLF reports to Murphy and was hired by Murphy. Murphy is the only guy he had to have approve his coaching choices.

2 points
3
1
CanPackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:57 am

I agree with most of you said CH! MLF is not a HC and was carried by Rodgers. I now see why Rodgers audibled so many plays at the LOS.

I would LOVE to see Rich B as an interim HC! He's tough, decisive and gets more out of his players. The MLF/Barry regime is confusing at best, incompetent at worst. They let players doubt themselves and ruin their confidence. On a young team, that is a disaster in the making.

Can the coaching staff be changed? Sure it can. It just takes the ego of Murphy to step aside and Gutes told to start cleaning out thus subpar coaching staff - or at least, one or 2 in mid season

6 points
7
1
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:16 am

The only mid season option would be to fire Butkus, return Stenovich to OL duties and have LaFleur take on OC. We really have no obviously worthy candidates for promotion on this staff. One might say that’s telling in and of itself.

3 points
3
0
CHEESEHEADDALLAS's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:09 am

This team is a joke from the front office to the sideline must be fired untill this happens things will rename the same as we slowly became the joke of the NFL once again.

-1 points
2
3
Savage57's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:45 am

We're seeing confirmation on the field that like Belichick rode Brady, so too did LaFleur saddle up Rodgers and ride him to at one time the best winning percentage in league history.

Matt's play design leaves a lot to be desired, where his schemes on paper are impossible to execute on the field because the timing they call for lags the actuality of what's happening on the field.

Pay attention to a lot of his plays that call for line traps and backside blocks by WR's and TE's and you'll see why they're getting blown up on the regular. He's asking too much of some very green players and they're simply not quick or effective enough to make the blocks needed for the plays to have the space needed to have a chance to develop and be successful, much less get past the LoS.

15 points
15
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PeteK's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:35 am

I agree, Musgrave is a prime example, and Kraft not better. If one looks at the better teams, the blocking by all involved is usually crisp.

9 points
9
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:59 am

Musgrave is a big WR, or was coming in. Expecting him to be ready to block was unrealistic. He was virtually clueless but he is willing. That may come. Kraft simply can’t block at this level, he never had to face players that he couldn’t just overwhelm. Perhaps the nearest thing to a TE at this point is Sims, but he’s not a great in line blocker yet, just better and has good hands. Deguara is a H back, he’s willing but undersized in line. Why we didn’t use a 6th OL defeats me. Caleb or Yosh would at least be harder to go around.

5 points
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0
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:14 pm

We dont use extra lineman because the offense is built around guys that can block or catch depending on how the defense is setup. Different plays out of the same formation to keep the Defense guessing, honest and reacting instead of attacking. Its why they call two plays into the huddle. The initial play call and then the 'can' play call. It's not a traditional audible. If you dont like the look the defense is giving you then u call the 'can' play which keeps the formation but changes what guys are gonna do. Thats where the offense get its advantage.

2 points
2
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Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:44 pm

You say that, but how many targets have gone to a TE not named Musgrave. To establish the illusion you have to back it up with use.

That aside, Yes, they like dual use guys in that type of O, but not in certain formation and 3 TE sets theirs plenty of room for a 6th OL, especially if they intend to run or short pass. We used Walker earlier in the year and when we used 3 in there on Monday, 2 were obviously double teaming a defender, not running routes at all. A 6th OL would have not been any less of a pass catcher or decoy in those circumstances.

4 points
4
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packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:31 pm

Yes, having TE's who can't block or receive well enough to make the defense respect them (lack of dependable playmakers at the other skill positions isnt helping either) certainly screws up the "illusion of complexity" that the offense wants and the benefits it would provide.

I don't think the Packers call a play with "the intention to run or do a short pass or screen pass etc." most of the time. I think they call 2 plays based on what look they think the defense is going to show then take what the defense gives them.

I'm not saying that 6 OL are wrong, just that it can hamper how the offense is designed to be run. Its not a "this is what we are gonna do try and stop us" offense its a "we can take advantage of whatever look you give us" offense. 3 TE looks are a lot more flexible than 6 OL looks. Its kinda the same thing as asking for more between the T's power running from a west coast offense early in a game. Power running between the T's isnt bad but for a WC offense it might not be the best fit for your offense's goals and how it wants to attack the defense. Its more about the system than being right or wrong.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:36 am

" He's asking too much of some very green players and they're simply not quick or effective enough to make the blocks"

He doesn't have a 6-5, 225 Allen Lazard in combination with TEs to make those blocks anymore, either.

You'll notice that they motion Deguara out of the formation on a regular basis now...in our house when it happens we've started chiming in with the King Arthur (Holy Grail) "RUN AWAY!!!"

7 points
7
0
Tundraboy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:11 pm

Bravely ran away!

1 points
1
0
Lphill's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:56 am

this is a poorly coached team its obvious now Rodgers covered up for these flaws lets just admit it.

20 points
22
2
NickPerry's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:17 am

Perfect and to the point comment. Pretty damn accurate as well!

6 points
6
0
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:36 am

Rodgers couldn't cover them nearly as well last year without Adams to prop him up.

8 points
11
3
SoCalJim's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:18 am

Yep. Also, 2022 Rodgers was no longer 2010 Rodgers. 2022 Rodgers was a middling QB. MLF’s coaching wasn’t looking too good at all last season.

7 points
7
0
WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:12 am

Yes, and a broken thumb. There is a reason why Gutey drafted 3 of the top 4 draft picks this year to catch the football. And then 2 more later. Rodgers had so little to work with last year, it's not surprising the offense sputtered that badly. They had no #1 WR to speak of, an okay Lazard, an over-the-hill Cobb and no competent receiving TEs.

4 points
6
2
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:18 pm

It an offense that is full of inexperienced players. Green WR's were a problem last year. Now we have more inexperience at WR while Watson gets into season form and green TE's and a QB that has started a handful of games... Its the inexperience.

2 points
2
0
White92's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:28 pm

Which is why I don't understand how Gutekunt gets a pass here. After all, he traded up to draft a questionable prospect without telling his HOF QB. The diva then never got over it. The GM should be on the next plane out

-1 points
1
2
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:59 pm

Gute at best gets an incomplete because he will ultimately be judged on the Love pick and how the team looks in about a year and a half. It's too soon to judge a lot of these kids given it takes players 2-3 years of ups and downs to show what type of player they really are. Just look at guys like Favre, Gary, Adams, Rodgers etc.

I think Gute should be taking some heat for letting Lewis go and the poor state of the TE position. We let Lewis go and went with Davis, the 2 draft picks and Austin Allen as our main roster hopes for TC...then lost Davis to injury, cut Allen (who was so desirable of a prospect that he isnt even on a P-squad atm) and trotted out the 2 rookie TE's, UDFA Ben Simms (who could've been kept on the P-Squad) and Degaura.

Lewis was only looking for a 1 year deal and would be a huge upgrade in terms of blocking which is the big glaring weakness of the TE room at the moment. I dont think anybody can disagree that a competent in-line blocking TE could help the offense. Keeping Lewis one more year to ease the transition would have been nice especially with how bad they whiffed on the Austin Allen decision.

1 points
2
1
SinceLombardi's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:05 am

Agree with the article and previous posts . I would add that playing hard nosed physical football has been absent in Green Bay for a long time.

19 points
19
0
NickPerry's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:16 am

A long, LONG time!

8 points
8
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:26 am

Forrest Gregg’s teams weren’t soft. They just sucked. What we want is hard nosed WINNING.

9 points
9
0
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:58 am

"Forrest Gregg’s teams weren’t soft. They just sucked. "

Charles Martin just gave you a thumbs up.

2 points
3
1
TKWorldWide's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:23 pm

And he did it well after the whistle.

4 points
4
0
Tundraboy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:29 pm

Since Holmgren really. In retrospect the perfect offensive minded HC.

1 points
1
0
Razer's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:35 am

" I would add that playing hard nosed physical football has been absent in Green Bay for a long time."

This describes the Packers to a T. When you look at physical teams like San Fran, Philly and DETROIT you wonder how we will compete when they pound the ball down our throats or blowup our O-line. A change in philosophy in the type of player and type of coach is needed.

6 points
6
0
egbertsouse's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:52 am

MLF tries to win with tricks and magic instead of toughness. Shanahan will try some tricks in SF but only after they beat the crap out of opponents.

12 points
12
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:24 am

1. I thought this was exactly the type of game we as fans were “ready” for this season: the defense played well and the young offense struggled. 17 and 8 were contained, but GB still lost.

2. I thought it was Love’s worst game of the year. Problem was, it was hardly against a fearsome opponent.

3. I was happy to see at least they ran 28 straight ahead rather than out of the shotgun.

4. I have been questioning for awhile now the value of edge rushers dropping into coverage, albeit only occasionally. I get that it’s a changeup. But when scouting edge rushers, do they give a wet crap about coverage skills? I hope not. I kinda want my edge rushers to, um, rush the QB. I’ll spare the “why not just switch to a 4-3” talk because nickel is the new base.

5. They need 33. Badly. I really wonder who the RB’s will be next year. As great as he is, AJ is getting long in the tooth. His play is still great but his availability is waning. 28 has not earned a big second contract. Has he earned a modest one in GB? Will he be offered big $ elsewhere?

13 points
13
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:07 am

"I thought this was exactly the type of game we as fans were “ready” for this season:"

There is no pleasing fans. A lot of fans wanted Rodgers gone because of who knows why. A lot of them wanted him gone for reasons off the field more then reasons on the field.
So for the people that wanted Rodgers gone and to move onto Love, they better have patience. Rodgers didn't become a hall of famer his first year. He built and built for years to become the guy that we know. We need to have patience with Love. Especially considering who they have around him. They have a lot of young guys around. It will take some time for Love.

"5. They need 33. Badly. I really wonder who the RB’s will be next year. As great as he is, AJ is getting long in the tooth. His play is still great but his availability is waning. 28 has not earned a big second contract. Has he earned a modest one in GB? Will he be offered big $ elsewhere"

RB will be a higher need next year for sure. They need more explosive options. They need to find another Jones.

3 points
3
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 11, 2023 at 03:13 pm

Seriously no comparison. Rodgers immediately came in attacking defenses deep and displaying superior arm talent to most of the league. Comparing Jordan's dinking and dunking is laughable. Jordan might, maybe get there but come on...

-4 points
1
5
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:23 pm

Rodgers had guys that could run routes competently against NFL quality DB's. Love isnt showing as much as Rodgers did but he is working with A LOT less as well. Its an imperfect mixed bag of a comparison. Love has had a few WTF moments but he has shown some good qualities as well.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 12, 2023 at 10:33 am

The one thing Love hasn’t done is dink and dunk. I’m fact he’s the got the lowest short pass attempt rate in the league. As to Rodgers, no, he didn’t. It sounds like you don’t watch now and weren’t watching then.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:20 pm

RCP,

this is part of the reason they need to be playing #31 Wilson.

1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:32 am

How many times have we heard.
YOU CAN"T WIN WITHOUT A GREAT QB!
Pick on MLF all you want.
But the patriots aren't any better.

And when you see the ILBs go down.
You attack it.

Something must change.
And it starts at the top.
Having a DE drop into coverage,
starts with the WHY?

And the team is showing their true colors,
on why, Rodgers wanted Gutey replaced.

-4 points
7
11
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:01 am

The Raiders won without a great QB. That’s just BS. You can’t win with widespread deficiencies in coaching unless you have a great QB and weapons and, even then, it’s not talking to all the way, as LaFleur has proved more than once.

4 points
5
1
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:57 am

Jimmy Garoppolo is 31 yrs. Been in a winning program.
The packers have had too many changes now.
Since 2010; it might be another 13yrs. and more now.
It just didn't stop with the coaching. Blame Gute.
Everyone of his successful picks is injury prone.

-1 points
3
4
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:04 am

Jimmy G is not good. He was not good on Monday. Taking your stand on quick sand again.

1 points
2
1
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:12 am

What stand - The better team won because of the QB.

Coldworld your missing Loves' 5 INTs in the last 2 games!

Thats not quicksand - Thats using your smarts.

The deer in the headlights returned.

Don't blame MLF because he won't throw the ball away.

And thats exactly what any good vet does!

They know when to kill the play called.

1 points
5
4
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:52 am

The errand boy who stocks the shelves, sent by the grocery clerk in the executive suite has failed on his mission. The guy is always a day late and a dollar short. Philly didn't trade up for Hurts. This O line would have Rodgers in the ER, were he still behind center.

0 points
0
0
jont's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:48 pm

"Apocalypse Now" reference noted.

1 points
1
0
HarryHodag's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:02 am

Please explain how the 49'ers are 5-0 with a quarterback who was the last person picked in the draft?

2 points
2
0
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:21 am

Because they know what to select in the first place.
Tom Brady wasn't rd. 1.
Does he act like a deer in headlights? - No
But he sure does have better support.

-2 points
2
4
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:57 am

They had Losing seasons with Shanahan, but bagged blue chip difference makers when given the opportunity. Lynch blew the Lance pick, but jettisoned the guy when "Mr.Irrelevant" ran the short game, but this was After Lynch moved boldly to acquire McCafferty, discarding the future picks Packertown loves to horde. This guy better be on the phones hunting down a veteran OT, G, or RB by deadline time. Clifford may be sent on the field if Love gets rocked onto the IR list. Aidan O'Connell also knows how to run a passing offense from the Purdue Air Raid. Mariucci is not around to help Love, or Andy Reid. There is no Gruden to direct the WRs in the passing game. Everyone knew Holmgren was in charge. Wolf had QB depth behind Favre, keeping the pressure on the hillbilly to perform.

3 points
4
1
jont's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:50 pm

They pay him $900k a year and spend the $30 million a year saved on upgrading the rest of the roster. Same as the Seahawks did with Russell Wilson and his rookire contract.

3 points
3
0
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:33 pm

Jimmy G is just a serviceable starter and he took a team with less weapons to the SB... Purdy is a steal no doubt but that team is loaded on both sides... adding CMC was an amazing move and GM Lynch might deserve a 2nd bust in Canton for his FO work if he keeps building rosters like he does...people might point to the Trey Lance pick as a reason to hate on him but there is some luck involved and it is ultimately up to what the player does on the field.

3 points
3
0
Razer's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:48 am

I am not down on this young team but I am (and have been) down on this coaching staff. Since McCarthy, we have had a steady procession of assistants shuffling through the staff and portfolios. The HC builds his coaching team and they teach the players the system that will define the team. It doesn't appear that Matt Lafleur is attracting or retaining the best coaches. The disarray on the field also suggests that the teaching isn't going so well. If this is the case then the light at the end of the tunnel is dim.

16 points
16
0
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:51 am

I agree with this.-
"Jordan Love has not been the reason the Packers have been winning games. He has been the reason they're losing."

— @craigcartonlive

-11 points
4
15
egbertsouse's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:56 am

One of the reasons. There are many.

Carton should go back to bilking widows out of their social security checks. He’s a meatball.

6 points
7
1
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:05 am

I disagree. He maybe a reason we aren’t winning games, but he’s not the reason we are not winning games this year or previously.

I also say that anyone who expected him to be winning us games at this point is a fool.

It’s odd that you crowed endlessly about how Rodgers wasn’t winning for us either in 2008 and 2009 but your man Favre was. You were the cheerleader of Rodgers can’t win from behind.

5 points
6
1
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:04 am

Take it up with him. I'm just the messenger.
I just agree with it. And truthfully I should have
added to my comment above.

-4 points
1
5
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:56 pm

Res ipsa loquitur.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:23 am

"Coach LaFleur has no idea what this team does well and what it's identity should be. It's like he's picking random plays out of a hat."
I feel like the biggest problem is that he hasn't figured out how to run the offense without Jones in there. There have been a lot of moving pieces with injuries and whatnot. Jones basically has only played in week 1. It sounds like he was going to be a huge part of the offense until saturday when he said he couldn't go. That changed a lot for the offense I think.

Ugly Love -
I feel like Love was seeing ghosts out there. He did not play well. But to be fair it didn't feel like anyone played well offensively. There were to many times WR's were in the same area, which usually means someone ran the wrong route. It takes all 11, and i don't feel like all 11 were on the same page for the majority of the game.

Tracking the ball -
Watson has the ability to make every play. But this one felt like he is rusty. He didn't look like he was going full speed.

Left-Handed -
I would like to know why there are more designed roll outs. Love has the ability to run. Let him move.

The Winner -
Carlson has been very good this year. There are no complaints at all with him.

Edge Coverage -
I don't get it. Like at all. There are certain things that Joe Barry does that just drive me nuts. CB's playing off the ball in 3rd/4th and short situations to having an OLB covering the best WR in the league.

Unclean Sweep -
I have no clue why they always run the sweep to the short side of the field. I don't know why but whenever they have tired running the sweep this year it feels like teams know its coming. And the timing of when the ball is snapped to when the guy running across the formation feel off to me as well.
They definitely need to get this cleaned up.

11 points
11
0
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:10 am

Watson has never been good at over the shoulder catches. He showed that last year and improved a little, but he seldom did that in college. He really didn’t have the QBs to do it, but they used him on deep crossers where he’s not got his back turned or got the ball to him in space and just let him run.

Yes, they should be working on these, so should he, but a good coach builds to his biggest weapons strengths. LaFleur doesn’t.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:08 am

Indeed, a personnel issue. There is no guy behind A.Jones. Veach stocks the shelf every year. Pacheco helped them win the Big Game.

2 points
2
0
TKWorldWide's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:19 pm

Dang!
Pacheco: round 7
Purdy: round 7

Hell, GB should start stockpiling 7ths!!

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:42 pm

I honestly don't think MLF has figured out how to run the team with or without Jones. Even when a he's healthy , how many times have we heard MLF bemoan the fact that he didn't find a way to use him. I would love for MLF to have an epiphany or something but he is not an NFL caliber coach. He's just not and no team has the luxury for him to learn on the job.

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:33 am

Great article AL. Your comments are among the reasons why I have been questioning this coaching staff and the FO since the NFCCG loss to Tampa in 2020. The decision making in this organization from Murphy down to the in game decisions are just baffling. There are so many "Why are they doing that?" moments during games that it is too much to keep up with. Or "Why did they stop doing that?" moments, such as stop running the ball with Dillon after their one TD drive against the Raiders.

Bottom line is that the OL has not been good. Part of that is on the blocking schemes as you correctly point out and part of that is on the players, specifically Walker, Myers and Runyon. There is enough tape on these guys at this point where defenders are aware of their flaws and they know how to attack their weaknesses.

The receiving corps is a work in progress with a long way to go in route running, blocking and even catching the ball. Then there is Jordan Love who is going through the growing pains of a first year starting QB in the NFL. He needs help in the form of better coaching and simplified play calling which enables him to get the ball out quickly and he needs to work from under center. He also needs Aaron Jones back to take some of the pressure off of him and give him a legitimate NFL level weapon who can score from anywhere on the field. As is stands now, between the Packers OL and their RBs, opposing defenses have nothing to fear from the Packers ground attack.

The defense deserved a better fate against the Raiders. However they can't give up a 75 yard TD drive immediately after a struggling Packers offense takes the lead. They needed to make a stop and get off the field at that point in the game. This doesn't excuse the two 4th quarter interceptions by Love but we've seen the same situation play out for years with the defense giving up leads immediately after the Packers take a lead in a game going all the way back to the McCarthy era.

Nick Perry is correct in his post when he states that all of this began with Murphy's decision to restructure the FO after TTs departure. IMO, the decision making began to go awry even prior to that but Murphy was off building his "Titletown" district. It has taken time but the decisions to restructure the FO, his decision to hire MLF, questionable draft choices and ultimately the loss of Aaron Rodgers has left the Packers with a team in disarray. It's still early in the season and the Packers still have time to learn and grow and play more solidly this season to give hope for the future. However as I have previously posted the decision making that I see from the organization down to the in game coaching does not provide me with much confidence that the management and coaching which has the Packers where they are is good enough to get them out of their current situation. Thanks, Since '61

17 points
17
0
White92's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:38 pm

Always one of the most thoughtful posts. Thanks

1 points
1
0
LeotisHarris's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:33 am

"Can someone explain to me why so many of the Packers' designed rollouts are to the left side, where throws are much more difficult for a right-handed quarterback?"

Any of my fellow CHTV geezers see Scott Hunter when the Packers roll Love out to the left? I remember Starr doing that a lot with ol' number 16. IIRC, with Hunter, it wasn't even a full roll out; just angle to his left, flip his stance, and get sacked. Like you, Al, I have no idea why you would choose to do that with a RH quarterback.

Maybe we can hope for LaFleur to dial-up a wrap-around draw to Dillon?

7 points
7
0
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:56 am

"Maybe we can hope for LaFleur to dial-up a wrap-around draw to Dillon?"

I heard they just signed Paul Ott Carruth to the practice squad for just such an event.

3 points
3
0
Bitternotsour's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:38 am

Poor Scott Hunter, the guy couldn't throw a ten yard out. He did however look like a quarterback in photographs.

3 points
3
0
stockholder's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:33 am

What part of the OL is solid?
You got to start there first.

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:33 pm

Jenkins. Tom.

2 points
2
0
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 06:36 pm

Where Crosby lined up might have something to do with it. If we rolled him the towards Crosby Al might be wondering why MLF is being so stupid as to roll towards the one guy on the Raiders line who can play great.

-1 points
0
1
packerfanroy's picture

October 12, 2023 at 11:25 pm

Who the hell thinks rolling out towards the side Max Crosby is lined up on is a good idea????

0 points
0
0
Slim11's picture

October 13, 2023 at 08:52 pm

I made the comparison to Scott Hunter on another thread and was excoriated for doing so. My comparison to Hunter, though, is based upon the coaching and the massive inexperience currently on the team.

0 points
0
0
croatpackfan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:36 am

Right on spot Al!

I wonder if MLF was coaching staff at that Falcons melting in the second half of their last SB appearance. If I recolect my memmory right, they had 25 something points lead after first half and were menhandled in the second half w/o even try to adapt or change the way how they were playing. Hmmmmm... If that is truth, that should be large red flag for hiring MLF.

But Mr "WANI" was delighted by MLF speach. That was huge mistake. His legacy will be blotchy by his decision to interfering with successful football operation part, establish by Ron Wolf and Bob Harland!

I still did not watch whole game. I watched highlights and listen some comments on you tube. I do not have will to go to watch that game (it started at 2:30 am on Tuesday here in Croatia!).

Lets hope some changes will happen in the next 2 weeks.

Also, I have feeling that game vs Lions in large ruined positive chemistry in the locker room. And all 3 losses are on coaching staff - 80% coaches (with main culprit MLF) and 10% may be on roster situation, rest 10% on players!

7 points
7
0
Packers1985's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:37 am

"If I recolect my memmory right, they had 25 something points lead after first half and were menhandled in the second half w/o even try to adapt or change the way how they were playing. "
I think that was Kyle Shanahan who was the OC and MLF is just his assistant back than but rest i agree that MLF isn't the HC material.

If you see the other day Jaire's post interview not at all good if this continues the players slowly going to give up

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

October 12, 2023 at 06:28 am

Yes, than MLF was QB coach for Ryan! I was not sure in what position was MLF at that time!

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:53 am

The lack of identity comment--something that this team does that it can hang its hat on--is particularly striking. They acted as if power-running was that thing on Monday...it only really paid off on one drive in the second half. The Packers were able to do a few things early on this season that allowed an inexperienced QB with a young group of pass-catchers to move the ball, but there's plenty of film out there now and teams are figuring out how to attack a hobbled OL (I don't think Jenkins looked 100% on Monday) and take the first looks away from 10. The versatility in this offense seems shot...especially without 33.

Right now, opposing defenses are just overpowering the OL, shutting down the run game, and making it even harder for 10. Dillon is not a dynamic back, and doubling down on him like they did on Monday when he's been struggling was a head-scratcher. If the Packers want to give 10 a chance to develop--yes, I know he's in his 4th year, but would you be comfortable knowing the guy flying your plane has lots of experience in the simulator, but this is only his 4th or 5th actual flight?-- they need to shore up the OL somehow, otherwise they're just throwing 10 away. He might not be an elite QB, but with the right pieces, he might be good enough...at least until they find the next guy.

That said, I'm actually going to throw a kudos to the defense that played well against a lousy offensive squad on Monday. They, at least, carried their water, and that was with the middle of the defense gutted by injury. Last week, I said they needed some of LaF's attention and were underachieving.,..maybe LV provided a 'get-right' for them. They've got plenty of weak sisters on the upcoming schedule, and the Packers will need them to hold those teams down so its punchless offense can find a stride.

12 points
12
0
Since'61's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:09 am

Great post Dobber!!! Spot on and I agree completely. Thanks, Since '61

6 points
6
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:36 am

Ditto!!

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:29 am

👍. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
BruceC1960's picture

October 11, 2023 at 03:14 pm

Going into the season many thought the OL was a strength. Obviously no one knew 69 would go down and Jenkins would have health issues. Monday night, Jenkins was back (maybe not 100%) and JRJ was supposed to be healthy? I guess I expected more. I’m not sold on Rasheed Walker. Myers looks like a mistake. What are Royce Newman and Yosh doing on this team if they can’t be counted on to fill in? At this point they can’t be looked at as prospects being groomed. Won’t Yosh be a free agent? Wouldn’t we better off with young players that could maybe help after some development? Still not sure why no OL were drafted or signed as free agents this year.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:06 pm

They paid Nijman 4.3 M to sit on the bench. Newman should have been released last season. Ask Gute where the replacement are hiding. He knew Bhak carried a low probability of playing the duration.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:40 pm

Bruce,.

you haven't identified a problem with
Nijman. He's one of our "best five," and should be playing.

2 points
2
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 11, 2023 at 03:17 pm

nice post...I like "at least until they find the next guy"...could be next draft if this type of football continues...

-1 points
0
1
PeteK's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:54 am

Putting all the blame on the coaches and forgetting the missed blks, dropped passes, foolish holding calls, linemen down field is just taking too simple of an excuse. It's the fault of all involved with youth, inexperience, and brainless play the main culprit. Case in point, Kraft on the ground grabbing defender's leg, that does not need to be coached to someone who played college ball.

1 points
4
3
dobber's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:42 am

Can't argue with any of this!

2 points
2
0
coolhand's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:43 am

And Myers was called twice for being downfield on screens. He's a third year guy and should know better. And change on the O line needs to start at center.

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:54 am

1 of those 2 was picked up and not actually a penalty.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:46 pm

C is our "fish," to use Mike Wahle's terminology. Every team knows to attack him as our biggest weakness. How many can win that battle?

How hard is it to realize Zach Tom is better at C, and Nijman and Mt Caleb are at least competent at OT and have advantages to dominate?

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:53 am

I put more blame on the defensive coaches then offensive coaches. Sure they only gave up 17 points and should be able to win that way. But its the key moments in the games that this staff just does stupid things.

Its the Preston Smith covering Adams types of plays that just shouldn't happen. Its the 3rd or 4th and less then one and we have 2 DL on the field. And its the safety covering a WR 11 yards off the ball.

The offense has legit reasons why there are issues. Its very young and a lot of mistakes are going to be made. But the defensive coaches are routinely making poor personnel choices. In key moments they are putting the players at a disadvantage.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:26 am

This premium defense didn't generate any turnovers. Edit this: Ford made a very nice Pick. Young QBs need good field position to help them out, or a key stop to get the Big mo moving in their direction. If Love lofts the last shot correctly, he's the Hero. He needs to work on his footwork and balance upon release. He was dodging the Pass Rushers when he floated left on the long ball. Just a millisecond of shifting his hips to get the full torque into the throw would have delivered the winner.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:09 am

Youth is part of that. Immaturity or lack of experience, but one measure of a coaching staff is how quickly they get those things under control and minimized. That means being willing to make players realize it’s not tolerated. That means consequences. Great coaches have eradicated those fast consistently. Conversely repeated mass penalties are often a sign of a coaching staff in trouble.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:49 pm

Measure our coaches as ... not great..

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:42 pm

Pete,

poor blocking is100% on coaches to correct, and not tolerate. Same with penalties.

Coaches can't catch the ball for receivers ...

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 08:57 am

Lot of criticism of MLF in here, and it's fair to say much of it is warranted. That doesn't absolve Jordan Love of his share of the blame. Regardless of what Lafleur calls for a play, for the most part JL has not been up to the task. Long passes, short passes, check downs, middle of the field mid-range throws, none of them have worked. Let's be honest, so far Jordan Love has not even been a serviceable NFL QB.
We can blame it on the youth and inexperience of our WR/TE weapons, fair enough. We can blame injuries to Jones and our O-line, and certainly that has contributed to the issues we are seeing with this team. We can blame MLF's play calling, and there is truth to that, but at the end of the day, bad execution, bad reads, bad throws and bad decisions are on Jordan. He ultimately decides where the ball is going.

All that said, I still believe Jordan has the talent to be a very good QB in this league. He needs to get back to the fundamentals and so does MLF as Since '61 pointed out.

Ultimately this team was built by Gute. He made decisions he felt he had to make for the future of the organization. The product we are seeing is a result of those decisions. Were they the right decisions? Will Packers history see Gute in the same way it sees Ron Wolf ? Time will tell. Hopefully the last 2 games are the low point of this season. We Packers fans have patience. We knew there would be times this season that would try our patience, but if this team continues to regress, the wolves will be howling.

4 points
6
2
CanPackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:15 am

It's hard to judge Gutes in the light of a typical NFL GM simply because of the "Murphy factor". God only knows how many bad - or non-decisions - are made due to Murphys' insane reporting structure?

While none of us really know the extent of the "Murphy factor", all I can see is that Gutes can only bring in low dollar talent and cannot touch the subpar coaching staff?

I can have patience with a young talented team. I have zero patience for a President who is a failing control freak.

3 points
5
2
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:35 am

That's just it, no one really knows the "Murphy Factor" yet some folks tend to give Gute a pass based on it. I'm not one of those folks.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:23 am

I will take Murphy’s statements as relatively true as to structure and what was his call and where he stood. They alone ho a long way to explaining why his organization went down the paths it has with LaFleur, coaching hires, Rodgers.

2 points
3
1
Packerpasty's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:33 am

Well I for one do not think Love will ever be more than a journeyman QB...why hasn't his accuracy improved in 3 years of being coached at the NFL level?? Supposedly being coached up by this great staff and even AR himself helping out...he's no rookie, he's a first year starter who looks lost most of the time...Mr dink and dunk with check downs and then heave a hero ball which is rarely on target hoping for a yellow flag for PI...nah, he aint the answer...

-2 points
0
2
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:45 am

Frankly, I think Jordan may have bought into his press clippings after the first couple of games. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like he tried to become some weird hybrid of Mahomes and ARod. He's a smart kid who has been humbled, I think he'll figure out. The talent is there.

5 points
6
1
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:15 am

Unless you put players in a position to succeed then it’s pretty hard to evaluate them individually or collectively. When that’s visibly not the case, true evaluation of the roster and thus Gute is impossible. Until we have competent coaching we are probably misusing or incorrectly evaluating what talent we have or simply not playing the right players at all. No GM succeeds with clueless coaching. Start by removing the obvious then it reveals what lies underneath.

3 points
5
2
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 01:17 pm

"Unless you put players in a position to succeed then it’s pretty hard to evaluate them individually or collectively."

CW. This same statement can apply to the coaches as well. Just replace the word "players" with the word "coaches". You tend to place all the blame on MLF. While I agree that MLF is part of the blame, where we differ is how much. The players are provided by the FO, the coaches job is to make those players better, the players job is to perform to the best of their abilities.

I see this as a 3 tier issue with the blame equally shared by the FO, coaches and players. If this team continues to regress, and any semblance of unity on the team falls apart, Lafleur deservedly will be gone. How this team responds over the next few weeks will answer that question. This team will either grow together, or it will be completely blown up.

This is all a natural progression when a team has to move on from talented veterans with the big salaries accumulated chasing a Super Bowl. Unfortunately there was no Super Bowl, but that's a different discussion. For me, the answer isn't blowing it up after week 5 unless this team quits on it's coach. Just one mans opinion for what it's worth : )

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:05 pm

We have seen the coaches with other players. That perspective has already spoken. The recurring symptoms speak clearly enough to the common factor.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:55 pm

MPF,

with players playing this much better than coaches are coaching, mutiny is likely. What form that takes might be entertaining to watch, but probably not.

0 points
0
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 13, 2023 at 07:22 pm

SST,
I'm confused, what players are playing better than the coaches are coaching? Right now, the players and the coaches are equally the problem in my humble opinion..

0 points
0
0
relleum61's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:05 am

Lafleur is reminding me of Linfante. Murphy hired him hoping for a hybrid of Shanahan/McVay and ended up with counterfeit.

Expensive DC's like Fangio and Flores were passed on this last off season to keep Barry. This has been a trend for coordinators under MLF, and it was only broken when RB was hired for special teams.

Perhaps we should hire the SF "DC in waiting." The last two DC's for the 49'ers ended up as head coaches and the next coordinator up has continued the trend of rock solid 49er defenses. While we can't poach their current DC, why not identify the "DC in waiting" and poach him. It couldn't turn out any worse that what we have now.

8 points
8
0
Razer's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:05 am

I am guessing that many veteran coaches are staying away from GB and Matt Lafleur because they don't want to be on that ship. Coaches know who the real deal guys are and who won't last. Desperate or green coaches who need a step-up job will join this staff. Our special teams coach was hired by the FO, at quite the expense, as an exception to this situation. I could see Rich becoming the HC of this team if Matt doesn't grow-up.

4 points
4
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 05:57 pm

Demote MLF to OC, and move RB to HC.

1 points
1
0
baldski's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:01 pm

Yes, find out who SF have interviewed for coaching decisions and discarded. They might be better than we have right now.

3 points
3
0
Rarescope's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:05 am

And to think many here just couldn’t wait to see the back side of Rodgers so that we could see Lafleurs real offense. I was expecting some ups and downs but not seeing many ups. I’ve been holding my breath ever since I read that they interviewed zero other HC candidates before going with Lafleur. That’s just downright mismanagement of an organization.

And wasn’t Watson one of the guys practicing with Love in the off off season?

10 points
10
0
Bitternotsour's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:44 am

we couldn't wait to see the backside of Rodgers because he's 40 years old, overpaid, and is a narcissistic malignant presence in the locker room.

you might also note: he's played 4 snaps this season at approximately $12.5M per snap.

i was never on the MLF train - i wanted Rodgers gone just to be rid of him. MLF is a pretender, a front runner, and he somehow fooled a CTE damaged Mark Murphy into believing he was head coaching material.

3 points
8
5
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:27 am

We could not afford Rodgers and a roster. Even with him hime we still are cap poor. Rodgers is 40. He couldn’t lift the team we could assemble last year. He lasted 4 snaps this year. The Rodgers you want back is in the past: gone. That he’s not retired with more rings is looking increasingly likely to be due to LaFleur in large part, and he’s still here.

5 points
6
1
Rarescope's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:37 am

Don't get me wrong, what's done is done and I know there is no going back. It just feels like the past three years have been a slow motion car wreck, and there are plenty of haters around here (see first reply to my comment above for example) that just couldn't wait to dump Rodgers.

I understand the need to move on from Rodgers, I just think that the plan to move on was put into motion too soon. I don't see many people mentioning the broken collar bone that ARod was coming back from when the same people were saying that he was in decline. I wasn't following football as closely as I am now but I do remember hearing that it was going to take some time for him to get back into form. Apparently GBP management didn't get that memo...

And yes, he got injured after 4 snaps this year, shit happens, but if we are going to rewrite history and say what would have happened if we had kept him, there is no guarantee that injury happens - he wouldn't have even been playing in that game. It wasn't like he had a heart attack or an appendectomy that would have happened no matter what.

1 points
1
0
Bitternotsour's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:42 am

Rodgers was a sniping malcontent the last 3 years. When you're 39 and you need time to get back into form, you need a damn time machine, not calendar time. It was time, it was time the year prior, but Mark Murphy killed the trade to Denver. Gutekunst made lemonade from the handful of lemons Murphy handed him.

0 points
4
4
Rarescope's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:43 am

Maybe he was a sniping malcontent because the organization decided to move on from him... right before what was it... two back to back MVP seasons?

-1 points
2
3
Bitternotsour's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:26 pm

he was a sniping malcontent for years before that. he stabbed mccarthy in the back and got him fired.

1 points
3
2
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 12, 2023 at 06:49 pm

I agree that the FO alienated Rodgers.

That said, every year AR played in GB meant his dead money increased, not decreased. He wasn't traded a year too soon; he was traded a year too late. I did write that in an article noting that I couldn't write a contract for AR that the team could live with.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 06:01 pm

Also skipped over is AR13's rib injury last year. Not being able to sleep for weeks on end and your thinking speed is the first thing to go; that was evident.

1 points
1
0
MooPack's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:08 am

MLF needs to somehow get a copy of the 49ners playbook and 5 finger delete his own. Use the rest of the season as training camp/preseason implementation of it. Obviously, that's a bit tongue in cheek and I'm not sure he'd comprehend it anyway.

0 points
1
1
RCPackerFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:57 am

Can we also have Kittle, McCaffery and Samual?

3 points
3
0
BruceC1960's picture

October 11, 2023 at 02:59 pm

And Trent Williams

1 points
1
0
rodgersrules's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:10 am

Should I be the first to say it? The best thing that could happen would be to go about 4-13, get a total housecleaning, from GM on down. And have a shot at a legit QB in what is expected to be the deepest draft for quarterbacks in many years. We stick with Love, which you can bet your life that Gute will want to do, and we're looking up at mediocrity for years to come.

2 points
4
2
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 11:21 am

Loves overall stats are remarkably close to Rodgers’ 4 games in. I’m not ready to call that outcome. Perhaps in part because I wasn’t when people were screaming about how Favre was a real QB as he was lighting it up with the Jets and Rodgers wasn’t winning here.

Love needs time. Rodgers had good veteran WRs, a decent running game, a good OL and much better coaching and game plans. It still took him time, but it was worth it.

4 points
5
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 12, 2023 at 06:51 pm

Not over 5 games. You cherry-picked 4 games when Love has now started 5 games and thus could be compared to AR's first five games.

0 points
0
0
packerfanroy's picture

October 11, 2023 at 04:58 pm

If MM isnt gone it wont matter...

1 points
1
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 06:03 pm

Cleaning house has to start with MM. If he stays no other changes are effective.

1 points
1
0
Booner's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:14 am

MLF is not an NFL head coach!!!! Gute is incompetent bar fly and Murphy is the clown that created this shit storm!

THE TITLE TOWN CLOWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 points
4
1
LeotisHarris's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:47 am

Hol' up, Booner. There are laws in Wisconsin to prevent clowns from creating shitstorms, and every Badger State bar fly completes a rigorous annual competency exam. You may be correct about MLF, but your exclamation point abuse negates that sliver of light.

5 points
5
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 06:05 pm

Booner,

1 out of 3 is bad. Gutey is ok.

You got 2 out of 3 somewhat correct

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

October 11, 2023 at 09:58 am

Fans the sky is not falling! The season is progressing just like most all of us thought with the need to exercise patience for a young QB, and the youngest team in the league.

The 2023 season was a rebuilding year and for those arguing that point....you were wrong! Gutey drafted a lot of talent the past couple of seasons, and 2023 during the rebuilding is to provide the young players with game time experience, but also to evaluate what the team needs most in 2024. What the season has shown all of us is:

1. Jordan Love did not play well, but he has talent and is the QB of the future. He just needs game reps, a better OL, better RB's, and for the WR's & TE's to gain experience. He also needs MLF to help him out more with play calling. I watch Jordan and I see a QB with talent who will need all of this year to be able to take the next step. It was a travesty MLF did not let Love play several games last year during the thumb injury to Rodgers.
2. The OL is far from stellar and needs a significant infusion of talent. Poor run blocking, and not being able to pass block well is a bad combination. Lack of quality depth. The Packers need some real road grader type OL for a running game. When was the last time we had that?
3. Unfortunately Dillon is not the RB we need. This will be his last year with the Packers. The loss of Aaron Jones is significant! With Jones the Packers offense is firing on all cylinders and are dangerous. By the way, why the hell did the Packers let Tyler Goodson go? Isn't he still available on someone's Practice Squad? He would have been very valuable while Jones was on the sidelines. The Packers need to add a very talented RB, particularly with this OL.
4. None of the TE's can block. Hopefully, this part of their game improves throughout the season. With a mediocre OL it is even more obvious the TE's are part of the problem.
5. MLF is a big part of the problem with the Packers. I just don't think he has what it takes. Barry as well! The front office is going to have to make big decisions after the season.
6. Watson is a one trick pony with speed. He needs to develop and learn to use his body to block out the defender, and to win contested catches. His hands are very questionable and need to improve. At this point, he really is not a hell of a lot different than MVS was as a player in year 2.

The sky is not falling and the Packers will continue to have good games, as well as bad games. This is a young team and we all need to exercise patience as we look to the future. There is a 'lot' of talent on this team but they are lacking some players in the trenches on both sides of the ball. This is an upcoming team but Gutey must have another very good draft in 2024, particularly with his first 3 or 4 picks.

1 points
3
2
Packerpasty's picture

October 11, 2023 at 03:20 pm

what exactly tells you that Love will be the QB of the future?? Fourth year guy who is still inaccurate after all the coaching he's had...he's exactly the same he was when playing in a shitty college conference, all the same faults...no growth shown...losing breeds losing a rebuilding year with losing many games wont do anything for the team going forward...who will want to come to Green Bay after a couple of years of this crap...

-5 points
0
5
13TimeChamps's picture

October 11, 2023 at 03:43 pm

"he's exactly the same he was when playing in a shitty college conference"

A few players from that "shitty college conference":

Josh Allen
Davante Adams
Bobby Wagner
Joel Bitonio
DeMarcus Lawrence
Derek Carr
Logan Wilson

That's just a few "current" players that come to mind.

What qualifications do you have to decide whether a conference is shitty or not?
What non-shitty conference did you play in?

EDIT: Full disclosure...I had a family member that attended CSU during the great Sonny Lubick years, so I'm a little sensitive to someone referencing the Mountain West as a shitty conference. And Ft. Collins is a great college town btw.

6 points
6
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

October 11, 2023 at 05:55 pm

Packerpasty...because I too was once a pretty damn good competitor and athlete myself. As a result, I believe I have some talent in recognizing talent. I have a degree in football, and once applied to work with Ron Wolf. I have watched Jordan in college, and all his Youtube videos. I have read everything about Jordan whether praise, or negativity. I see his athleticism, his arm strength, his leadership abilities, how his teammates believe in him and support him, how he goes thru his progressions, his pocket awareness, and his running ability. I believe in Love with the proper supporting cast.

I know you have never gotten over Aaron Rodgers. He is gone, so move on! Share why you don't believe Jordan Love will be a good QB?

2 points
2
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

October 12, 2023 at 07:12 pm

Yup. I've written in the snap counts that Kraft isn't ready to play. But they have to develop Kraft somehow, I suppose. Everyone knew Musgrave couldn't block but at least seems willing.

Watson needs to become a complete (#1 WR) move the chains, volume receiver instead of just a big play guy. Still, big play receivers can play a long time in the NFL.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

October 13, 2023 at 06:16 pm

Knock,

notice the common element is MLF being bad.
We have Nijman and Mt Caleb not playing so that an injured Zach Tom can stay at RT, when he profiles better on the interior and especially at C. While Myers remains our weak spot for the entire league to pick on.

Normally this type of decision is 100% on the HC.

Rhyan and Telfort aren't playing either. Filiaga at #321 and Tenuta at 6'8" released, and we're calling for road graders ...

0 points
0
0
13TimeChamps's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:02 am

October 22nd, 2023, 2:25MT, Empower Field @ Mile High, Denver, Colorado.

If GB comes out flat and scores 3 points in the 1st half against THAT defense, all doubt will be removed about our HC.

Will it be LeFleur's Day of Infamy?

7 points
7
0
MainePackFan's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:12 am

13TimeChamps. What will it tell us if they score 40? : )

1 points
1
0
13TimeChamps's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:27 am

That they figured some things out over the bye. You know...like coaches are supposed to do. Let's hope that's the case!

2 points
2
0
Razer's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:59 am

...That they figured some things out over the bye. You know...like coaches are supposed to do. Let's hope that's the case!...

Exactly! The perfect reply. Thanks

2 points
2
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:35 am

I sure wouldnt put much cash down on the Packers in that game...

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 11, 2023 at 07:14 pm

I think we could play LaFleur at QB and score on that D if it hasn’t improved. Their biggest limiting factor is how quickly their opponents D can get Wilson off the field. I

0 points
0
0
jboss's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:16 am

Hey whiners, This is the youngest, lowest paid offense in the NFL. If we were comparing assets devoted to offense in the draft to those devoted to defense, my guess is that we would rank last in that metric as well.
Based on that, I would say a coach performing better than number 32 in the league on offense is doing a good job. Currently the packers sit at #8 in points scored and at 2-3 have a better record than 7 other teams.

-1 points
2
3
GaryC's picture

October 11, 2023 at 10:58 am

I take your point jboss but the problem is I bet the head coach and coaching staff is up there with the best paid in the NFL.