Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Dumbfounded

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Matt LaFleur was talking about the basic communication issues in the Bucs game during his Monday press conference. When asked how communication could fail so badly on all levels, his reply was a simple "I'm as dumbfounded as you are."

Well Matt, you're right. There are some things I am personally dumbfounded about:

I'm dumbfounded that you hired Joe Barry with the dumpster fire of a resume he carried into your interview.

I'm dumbfounded that you brought him back this year thinking that things would be any better.

I'm dumbfounded that the Packers defense made Tommy DeVito look like Joe Montana.

I'm dumbfounded that Eric Stokes wasn't worked in slowly but rather thrown into the fire as a starter in his first action in over a year. 

I'm dumbfounded that your defense plays two shell to limit explosives and still gets burned.

I'm dumbfounded that safeties are playing 35-30 yards deep on a critical 3rd and four in the fourth quarter.

I'm dumbfounded how predictable and easy to gameplan for this defense is.

I'm dumbfounded that you stood at the podium on Monday and basically absolved Barry's approach because "you've seen it work before."

I'm dumbfounded that after beating the Lions and Chiefs, your team can lay two horrendous eggs against lesser competition with a playoff berth on the line.

I'm dumbfounded that after getting torched the first half by Mayfield to Godwin, they were simply allowed to do the same thing in the second half with no adjustments.

I'm dumbfounded as to why a healthy McDuffie wasn't inserted at ILB when Walker and Campbell were so obviously struggling health-wise and assignment-wise.

I'm dumbfounded as to why the Packers lead the league in special teams penalties.

I'm dumbfounded by the gross "miscalculation" with regards to Jaire Alexander's injury. 

I'm dumbfounded on how you can completely abandon the run in what was a close game into the fourth quarter (15 RB rushing attempts total, 8 on the first drive).

I'm dumbfounded that you don't see the frustration on you're defensive players' faces after they allow yet another big gain when down and distance favors the defense. 

I'm dumbfounded how often this team is out-coached.

 

 

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

29 points
 

Comments (195)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:04 am

Even after All of those valid points by Al...

I'm Dumbfounded ANY Packers fan still supports Matt LaFleur as the Packers HC.

31 points
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bjkdad44's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:20 am

I for one… DON’T!

9 points
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mnbadger's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:07 pm

I'm dumbfounded that mlf is dumbfounded.
there's nearly three years of evidence that cannot be denied.
the GBPkrs defense is like a publicly traded stock in that it can go up and down in value.
It's the opposite of same stock in that past performance totally predicts future results.
mlf - open your eyes and make a change now!
MM - open your eyes and make a change now!
I asked CHTV to stop showing mlf's photos in the articles as I only have about 20 minutes to consume content per day, usually while trying to eat my lunch.
I've lost over 40lbs since I first made the request.
A fair amount of credit goes to my inability to take in and hold down food after seeing his photo with packer logo on his attire.
GPG!

5 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:48 am

The fans that support him are the ones that look back at his success in the first three years thinking because he did it before he can do it again.

He needs to stick with being an OC. He is not a HC. An HC needs to make tough decisions. He is too worried about hurting players feelings. A soft coach makes a soft team.

19 points
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HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:01 am

Yes, but i believe a big part of that was the drafting of Love. It pissed off Rodgers and another chip was added to his shoulder and voila--he played so much better.

I admit that I am not sure of the timing of Love's drafting and Rodger's MVP years but I do know that Love was there for at least one of the two MVP years.

We gave LaFleur a little too much credit IMHO.

-3 points
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dobber's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:55 am

"It pissed off Rodgers and another chip was added to his shoulder and voila--he played so much better."

ARod won the battle with McCarthy and was meh in 2019, and when 12 essentially "won the war" with his big extension prior to 2022, he deflated.

12 points
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tincada's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:07 pm

I've always believed that MLF arrived in GB and rode the back of AR. Now that AR is gone we can all see the emperor has no clothes.

3 points
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CheesedDeadHead's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:41 pm

I'd agree with you if one knee was on AR and one knee on Davante Adams.

3 points
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bottlefliper's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:58 pm

Mr. Ivermetin carried no one when it counts. He always find a way to loooose in the play offs, even he had a better D and great weapons.
He always played like 5% of the SC when it counts and got paid 25%. Whats a shame. To much advice from Rogan.

3 points
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dobber's picture

December 22, 2023 at 08:41 am

That philosophy works if the 2023 Packers weren't a mirror image of the 2022 Packers.

0 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:12 am

Seeing as how the HC lost his MVP QB to the NYJ, shouldn’t we keep this on the QT? Because if it leaks to the GM, we could all be put on KP here at CHTV.

And BTW, it’s 2 degrees cooler today than yesterday. Do you have your muff?

0 points
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Coach Cleve Steamer's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:28 am

I got mine.

6 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:56 am

No love for Adrian Cronauer??

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:48 am

It’s equally plausible that LaFleur’s inadequacies, personally and via his coaching team, are the reason a Rodgers/Adams led team crashed and burned from 2019 to ‘21. In each case there were known issues that played a role beyond players as well as play calling questions.

The ridiculousness of the statements by LaFleur are a classic sign of a leadership knowing it’s devoid of ideas, teaching for excuses that in fact are more damning than the symptoms that they were intended to exculpate. This is a man telling us it must be due to what in his own words amounts to incompetent coaching that he doesn’t know how to fix or can’t countenance it.

Death throes. From the man who couldn’t win with Rodgers and Adams and perhaps just made sure that we didn’t when it mattered. Rodgers resurgence and MVPs are often cited by the apologists. In fact I see that resurgence as damning of LaFleur wasted by the coaching staff—we’ve discussed the howlers in post season each year at length. Some in game, some preparation, some things long brewing and feared like Drayton.

The wins argument is pretty much dead with the benefit of the lens of last and this year. We beat average teams, which takes us to 8 or 9 games. Rodgers and co carried that higher with help from a weak division. We lost to good ones and hood coaches, often for the same reasons twice in a year. That’s when coaches earn their keep. Of course we lost in the post season too, for the same reasons.

Rodgers may be imperfect or unlikeable for some as an individual, but he is looking like he was as much a victim of LaFleur’s confidence trick as we were.

8 points
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fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:29 am

He admits in his interviews that "he's dumbfounded", "it's on me", "we'll wait til afer the season to evaluate", "we're having basic communication problems". He is telling us that he is totally inept at his job and should be replaced.

Doesn't that sound like a HC that is clearly in over his head and that he can't or won't man up and fix these problems?

Please take the axe out of the woodshed and start chopping when this clown show is over.

8 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:24 am

Not 1, Not 2, but 3 years that he lead the team to 13 win seasons.

Ohhh shit, i forgot that was just Rodgers right. I mean Rodgers only had One 13 win season prior to LaFleur showing up, but it was purely on Rodgers obviously for those 3 13 win seasons.

Clearly it was only on Rodgers that he threw the most TD's in a season then he ever has before. It had nothing to do with the offense that LaFleur has ran. In 2020 Rodgers had his highest completion percentage in his career. Also had his most TD's.

Also can LaFleur get a little credit for the job that Love has done thus far? He has put together a pretty good year so far. He has thrown for 3368 yards, 25 TD's, 11 Int's. Lets look at Love's first year as a starter.

Lets break it down into 2 halves. They have played 14 games so first 7 and last 7.

Loves first 7 games.
135 completions on 234 attempts, 1492 yards, 11 TD's, 8 Int's, average rating 81.2.
Loves last 7 games.
169 completions on 252 attempts, 1876 yards, 14 TD's, 3 Int's, average rating 104.0

Currently Love ranks 10th in yards, tied for 5th in TD's. He has thrown less Interceptions then Allen, Mahomes, Hurts and only 1 more then Goff, Lawrence and Tua.

Love is putting together a good first year. Does LaFleur get no credit for that?

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:48 am

You just made his argument that MLF is a good QB friendly coordinator during the regular season.

He proved that he's been outcoached even in the 13-win seasons when it came to the playoffs, especially in the other phases of the game.

As other teams and coaches started catching up with his game, he even has been outcoached during the regular season starting with last season.

I've always wanted him to succeed, but when he ignores the line of scrimmage by just putting anyone out there, has a soft personality, or lets the DC decide his fate, thinking he can fool and out-scheme the other teams, he's lost allot of my confidence.

6 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:03 am

He was outcoached after his star LT got hurt?

He was outcoached last season when his QB was playing with a broken thumb?

And if we are going to give Rodgers all of the credit for the 3 13 win seasons, then shouldn't he get all the blame for the way they lost those seasons? You simply can't give Rodgers all the credit for the good and throw LaFleur under the bus for all the bad that happens. It doesn't work that way.

Ignores the LOS by putting anyone out there? I mean he puts out there who he has on the roster.

The single biggest mistake LaFleur has made in his coaching tenure is keeping Barry. Biggest mistake.

-4 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:13 am

These excuses are as threadbare, even when basically plausible, as LaFleur’s own.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:22 am

Excuses? ohhh, yeah. can't bring facts into anything. They be labeled as excuses.

-3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:33 am

What fact? Gray was not enamored of what Barry was doing. That’s about all the insight I could ever find on that.

Right now, even not knowing the details, it looks like Gray was on the right side of history. You are on the wrong side of that accusation.

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:24 am

i have no clue what you are talking about

-1 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:15 pm

Coldworld, You truly are the king of word salads. I might add that these excuses are as threadbare, even when basically plausible, as Lafleur's own. What a crock of shit : )

0 points
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fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:35 am

He allowed Rodgers to play with a broken thumb! He looked like an UFA and his passes were wounded ducks. He should have sat Rodgers down until the thumb was healed and let Love play and get experience. I believe they would have made the playoffs.

That's on MLF!!!

5 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:25 am

ok.

-6 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:49 am

RCPackerFan- Your argument for MLF kinda reminds me when I see that one person alone in their car, still wearing a covid mask. Someone needs to let them know?

-1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:04 am

ok that is hilarious. That made me laugh.

There was this picture I remember and think of a lot.
It was a heard of sheep all running one direction. There were a few sheep running the other way, and everyone is calling them morons and whatnot for going the opposite way of the rest of the sheep. Except when you zoom out on the picture you see that all the sheep running in one direction were running off a cliff. The ones going the opposite direction even though they are getting screamed at and called names were the ones that lived and were the correct ones.

Much like this website. There are some people who are more level headed who don't always go with what the crowd says. Some of us have our own opinions that don't go with the masses. That doesn't mean we are wrong. It just means we look at things differently. But what also doesn't mean is that the masses are right. There isn't always a right and wrong in these things. Most of them are opinions.

So why do we have to bring out the pitchforks when someone doesn't agree with the masses?

-1 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:10 pm

Fair enough

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:47 pm

Well said RC. The thing I love the most is when the sheep come back and inadvertently admit they were wrong. I have seen several examples of that regarding the 'Rodgers is the problem" crowd.

Lafleur is apparently the new Aaron Rodgers here at CHTV. The same folks dumping on Lafleur would be calling for Andy Reid's head if he was coaching this team. Heck, I'm not sure Vince Lombardi could survive the onslaught of definitive knowledge we see here.

That being said, I Love this site. We are perfectly imperfect :)

-1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

December 21, 2023 at 01:34 pm

yup!

0 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:33 am

Yes, you proved what we all know MLF is a good OC, and in some minds a great Head Cheerleader. That does not translate into a good HC. Norv Turner comes to mind, a great OC but a mediocre HC.

Last weekend Tucker Kraft proved he has balls. Unfortunately, MLF can't seem to find his.

5 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:26 am

ok, name a coach that comes in and instantly makes this a better team.

-5 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:59 am

Brian Flores last offseason. But "continuity" of prevent (the win) defense got in the way.

Next question?

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:05 am

as a head coach? No he made the defense better in Minnesota. Does he make the entire team better?

How does he make Love better?

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:36 am

Depends who he brings in as OC. You asked a flawed question. It’s LaFleur HC that’s being replaced, that brings not just an overall culture and philosophy but at O and D levels too.

Here’s a list of names. Some of these I’d take in a shot. As to Love, a better OC, IOL and a functioning defense and more winning tactical acuity may work wonders.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/09/29/future-nfl-head-coach-candidates-daily....

1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:20 pm

I will try to avoid another LaFleur, Mike. Just saying!

1 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:43 pm

I think EVERYONE should strive to “make Love better”.

2 points
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PeteK's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:03 am

---Lafleur is not the problem, some fans just take the easy blame game. It was the same with McCarthy, who's had success since he left GB. If someone had told me that Jones, Watson, and Bak would be hampered by injuries most of the season, I would have predicted calamity for this offense.
--Yes, Barry should have been let go. However, the defense has been an enigma since our SB year. Through many coaches and high draft picks and the same with our special teams. Maybe it's time to bring in some young successful college coaches .

-4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:35 am

Pete don't you know that its just easy to blame LaFleur for everything. And give him none of the credit for the accomplishments of the previous years.

they had a great DC in Capers. When he first came to GB he transformed the defense. Unfortunately he got old and the game passed him by. Pettine was 'ok' but basically was like Barry trying to run someone else's defense.

The guy I want, which everyone knows is Leonhard. Other guys i'd consider from college is Dave Aranda. I have seen talks that he maybe looking to get out of Baylor.

-5 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:38 pm

RCP, I read what you wrote today on this article and I have to say to you, that leader who is not strong and afraid to hold himself accountable for his mistakes will quickly lose the team in every human job (business, sport, entertainment, turism etc).

Taking blame on himself is not holding itself accountable, especially when you are not correcting your mistakes, but just admitting that you are doing them repeatidly.

I was not so much against Joe Barry hiring. I know many called him on his past record as DC. I really and trully believe that everybody can improve in his business and that deserve another chance. But picking somebody on personal reasons and not hold him accountable for his mistakes is bad, bad behaviour.

Well, also, 2 MVPs and top TD record from FPQB I will more gladly attribute to 2020 and 2021 Packers OC, who was praised for his red (gold) zone schematic and ideas. From MLF by himself and from FPQB. So, MLF 3 years 13-3 record was really on others than on him.

Jordan Love development I would rather attribute to old and experienced QB coach, Tom Clements than to MLF and Stenavich. And do not forget Tom Clements was hired not by MLF, but FPQB insists to bring Tom Clements from retirement.

Also, Rich Bisaccia was not his hire - he was brought by Mike WANI Murphy under the pressure from Gutekunst. But of course, publicly RB was MLF hire.

MLF has no balls and have to be pushed to plan, call or implement "brave" plays. He is play calls are "sure" calls, not winning ones. And he pick up DC who believe he also play calling "safe" calls for D.

They will ruin fine talents Packers has summoned in the last 3 drafts.

And I'm dumbfounded that you can not see it!

-1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:02 pm

Ok, so basically all credit goes to literally everyone but LaFleur, and yet everything bad is on LaFleur. Got it.

0 points
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4
croatpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 03:51 pm

That is the life of leaders!

1 points
2
1
CanPackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:53 pm

If LaFleur was the OC of this team over that time, I would say yes. That's why Hackett got a HC gig. But as a HC, no I won't give him credit because as a HC, he isn't doing the full job.

Wouldn't it be great if we could evaluated at work for the things we like/ are good at versus including all the crappy things we must do to truly fill out our team roles?

2 points
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Green Bay Shareholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:13 pm

Imagine Lombardi stepping up to a podium and stating he was dumbfounded by the actions of his own team - what leadership we have on all levels !

7 points
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GLM's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:51 pm

"I'm dumbfounded that after beating the Lions and Chiefs, your team can lay two horrendous eggs against lesser competition with a playoff berth on the line."

This one hurts the most. Time and again, we've had opportunities in big moments and come up lame, and that's not just this year.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:46 pm

A worthy addition!!!

0 points
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bjkdad44's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:20 am

I’m totally dumbfounded!!!!

5 points
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EskyBrian's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:28 am

I knew this one would be good. I’m as dumbfounded as anyone …..

8 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:41 am

Come on AL!!

We need to keep this coaching staff in place for the youngsters on the team. Think about where our continuity would be otherwise.

You have to admit the D has played very consistently since Barry was hired.

That might have been my longest sarcastic comment to date. Al's pollution brings it out of me.

7 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:04 am

Hey, c’mon now…you’re a highly successful CHTV commenter…😉

11 points
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JerseyAl's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:30 pm

That's gold Jerry!

5 points
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CanPackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:55 pm

Who is entitled to an opinion as a fan in a social media forum...

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:48 pm

Yes let's take the bandage off slowly, wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feeling.

-1 points
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Cheezehead72's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:45 am

Whenever things are going bad MLF looks dumbfounded on the sidelines.

I have watched some Dolphins games and Mike McDaniel never looks dumbfounded. Even when things are going bad he looks confident.

How the coaching staff acts and looks throughout the game communicates to the players what they are feeling. If you show you are not confident and do not know what to do the team will follow.

I know MLF will never be a good HC. I have no confidence that he can be an above average OC and play caller. Now that does not mean he will not go to another team in the future and be an very good OC. I do not see it now.

9 points
12
3
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:38 am

As an OC or at least playcaller, he has done some brilliant things. Of course we only see that when players execute, and it succeeds. I cannot say that every time MLF's playcalling was outright bad was when he was stressed by having to simultaneously deal with critical clock management or other HC duties like he should bench a player or at least make a substitution or 3. (MLF doesn't seem to bench anyone as a way to maintain the standard. Except Nijman, which was favoritism rather than merit, and only punished the whole team)

It does seem to me that when MLF's playcalling was outright bad, he was stressed in exactly that way. I'm open to being shown examples when that wasn't the case. I'll also point out that any play called that doesn't work, either because GB played messed up or because the opposing D made a great play, the playcaller will look bad. We need to exclude those, which gets difficult to assess.

This is purely academic, GB isn't going to act on what we decide regardless. I'm not defending MLF as anything, only pointing out that division of duties between HC and offensive playcaller needed to happen long ago; before this season started, and evidently before MLF's first playoff game as HC. All his weaknesses fall within HC duties, all his strengths are in an OC job description.

1 points
3
2
T7Steve's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:54 am

If anyone has an example for you, remind them that he ran a long developing end around sweep from the 2-yard line for a 2-point conversion after running the play continuously earlier with success only on the first try.

8 points
8
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:20 am

He’s come up with some very clever plays. He’s also come up with some too clever ones. As an OC he runs somebody else’s core system. He does that reasonably well, but his tactics pre and in game have failed more than they’ve won, he doesn’t adjust particularly well.

He may have a future as an OC, but he’s yet to prove that he is one. To become such he needs to improve in his use of personnel and tactical acuity. He’s an innovative play designer at this point. This “he’s a great OC” is fan fiction, both before and after his arrival here.

9 points
10
1
crayzpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 03:48 pm

If MLF was the HC of Georgia or Alabama with all their crazy good recruiting, he would be a lock to lose 3 games every year with a 4 loss season also likely.

-1 points
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1
Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:52 pm

Not the face of the Packers that I ever envisioned. I don't ever expect another Lombardi. Andy Reid maybe but not MLF.

0 points
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stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:54 am

Dumbfounded? MLF believes in his coaches and not his players.
The resume was LB coach. Why did Gute draft Des?.
Why was Barry back? Either he runs the team or popular opinion does.
Fire- It’s Baptism by fire? Ready or Not. Or is this Hide and Seek?
Two shell ? - More like don't to get hurt-
35 -30 yards? - Douglass got traded.
Predictable - Detroit and KC didn’t think so.
Game plans - That all changed when Savage and stokes started.
We’ve waited long enough for these guys to make an impact.
I’m dumbfounded on why Gutey took either of them.
It worked before because Rookies don’t rebel.
Their heart is bigger than their head and paycheck.

As far as running the ball- Do you want Jones hurt?
Or fumbles. = The exchange between Love and a new face.
I wasn’t wrong when I wanted Bijan Robinson over Van Ess.

Out-Coached? IMO- it’s more like out-played.

-16 points
4
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Oppy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:24 am

"I wasn’t wrong when I wanted Bijan Robinson over Van Ess. "

Van Ness was selected at #13. Bijan Robinson went at #8.

If you were still clamoring for Bijan after he was off the board, you were destined to be disappointed. I don't know if we can call that "being right", but whatever makes you feel like a draft savant, I suppose.

15 points
15
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:30 am

Ha!
I wanted Aikman over Mandarich too…

9 points
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stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:02 am

Yes- Your Right . A trade up was needed.
But TT would have pulled it off.

-6 points
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JerseyAl's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:36 pm

TT trade up to take a RB at #8??? The highest RB pic he ever made was in Round 2 and the majority of them were Round 4 or lower.

7 points
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stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:24 pm

You're right per majority.
But in 2007 He wanted Adrian Peterson.
And couldn't get him. Doubt he'd miss on Robinson.
And maybe you also remember Ron Wolfs
trade of Eric Dickerson but he failed his physical.
Then Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennet became Greats
And TT did get Ryan Grant with a 6th rd.
But then he was known as Trader Ted.

-3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:25 am

He went #8, Van Ness #13, so the trade up and lose value ? I still put my money on protecting Love and bag Broderick Jones.
Offense wins in the 21st century and a 4-2 defense with hands in the ground. Yes, the Gutey fail making believe he set up a formidable defense with over-drafted guys. Again, why was Douglas, the Starting CB, let go for chicken feed? Absolutely, they were out-coached. The defense floundered. He relinquished the FG on series #1 to play the roulette wheel from some sophomore analytics course from the ph.y ed. department. This guy, LaFluer does not have command on the sidelines and any control over the incompetent Barry.

1 points
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fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:46 am

I believe this defense could be good with the right DC.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:55 am

I believe this D is worse than the sum of its players. What they are asked to do and how is a big part of it. How good the group is, or could be, I find it increasingly hard to tell. The consistent overlay of Barry has obscured talent or the lack of it too long.

4 points
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stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:04 am

And I believe after 16 years the 3-4-4 is the problem

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:42 am

Players, not Plays...4-2 hybrids whatever, you still need guys who have the smarts and the will to play downhill and execute a tackle.

5 points
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0
stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:42 pm

We're always next to last in stopping the Run.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 20, 2023 at 05:37 pm

Players, not plays. A Horde of One picks that cannot perform aside from Kenny Clark, an on/off Gary and Jaire when healthy. Wyatt will get better with a better scheme. Van Ness looks to be getting a grip on it, but he's not getting enough reps. Walker, Savage, and Stokes are liabilities and should be moved.

-1 points
0
1
stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:33 pm

I think they can perform.
In 2008 Kampman and Montgomery were the Des.
Both Gary , Van Ess can play DE.
Pickett and Jolly -
Should be Clark and Wyatt.
Move Walker Back Out side , Campbell , P, Smith
Valentine, Alexander,
Owens FS , Campell , Nixon SS
Don't resign Savage, Ford, And Let Stokes sit until
he shows he can beat out Valentine. /Cut him in camp

-1 points
0
1
stockholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:43 pm

In 2009 Capers 3-4-4
Raji became the NT And Kampman OLB
In 2010 Kampman was gone
Replaced with True LBs
And You do know the difference between Raji and Slayton///Sacks!!

0 points
1
1
TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:48 pm

Imagine my Chagrin.
When I woke up this morning and.
Realized.
That My Evil Twin also has a Twin.
That looks Exactly like Me.

Also
I’m coming to grips with the Fact.
That.
I’ll never see myself in the mirror.
With.
My Eyes closed.

1 points
2
1
HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:08 am

Al, you put into words what we have all been thinking. I know that I am thoroughly pissed off at LaFleur.

LaFleur, and most of the gang if not all should be gone after the season, but do you really think Murphy will do that with, what one year left before his retirement? I can't see that happening. It is possible to see Barry gone as there is such an uproar from the fans, writers and now it appears the players as well at least to a certain extent.

Pretty depressing right now.

So now, do we want the Packers to win out without much of a shot at the playoffs or do we want them to lose 2 of 3 and get better picks in the draft. I don't like the latter but part of my wants that to happen. Maybe, just maybe, if that happens maybe some/all of the coaches will get fired!

11 points
11
0
stinkycheesehead's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:17 am

Hawk, that's exactly what i was thinking with JB still here, if we win 2 or all of are final games, next year will be THE SAME SHIT OVER AGAIN!!!

4 points
5
1
Guam's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:30 am

HP: Your last paragraph perfectly described the dilemma of every Packer fan for the remainder of this year. You want the Packers to win, but you want the coaching staff gone and you want the best picks possible next spring. Sadly I think the best thing for the Packer's future is to lose then last three and usher this entire coaching staff out the door.

LaFleur's inability to select a competent staff will prevent the Packers from ever winning another Super Bowl under his stewardship. For that reason alone he and his hires need to go. The only remaining question is Murphy enough of a leader to make that decision in the last year of his tenure?

I won't be surprised if I am dumbfounded at that answer.

15 points
16
1
jannes bjornson's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:45 am

There is the option of Early Retirement for Murphy. It may be the only way he saves face. Set a New Course.

9 points
9
0
LeotisHarris's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:17 am

Now there's an idea! It takes away the farewell tour culminating in the Draft, but, boy, if you squint Murph sure looks like a guy who could be itching to spend more time with his family. He'd have to finesse that early exit and soft landing.

7 points
7
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:44 am

if nothing else, perhaps Murphy could spend more time with Matt LaFleur's family. maybe, in say Florida?

4 points
4
0
HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:36 am

Um....No. I am in Florida. No room for him here!

5 points
5
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:51 am

He can manage the golf course he purchased in Door County.

3 points
3
0
fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:49 am

The way this team is coached I wouldn't bet on the Packers beating Carolina....No, Never, Not.

2 points
2
0
EnemyTerritory's picture

December 21, 2023 at 12:05 pm

Well if the D plays with as much passion as you see in Pittsburghs O, then the players may fire Barry. Hate losing but the franchise is better off dropping the last three games…

0 points
0
0
stinkycheesehead's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:11 am

MLF IS DUMB IF JOE BARRY STAYS

2 points
2
0
Lphill's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:15 am

I’m dumbfounded we are still discussing Joe Barry who should have been long gone , no replacement on staff ? how about the concession stands manager, the groundskeeper , the night watchman , they can’t be any worse .

13 points
13
0
HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:07 am

LP, you or I at DC could be an improvement and I don't know the first thing about being a DC, so I guess that makes me a tie with Barry.

-1 points
2
3
fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:51 am

I can run Cover Zero just as good as Barry.

2 points
2
0
BAMABADGER's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:33 am

All are good options. But if he assumes the roll of groundskeeper, give him responsibility for everything but the field. The turf is already to slippery.

1 points
1
0
mrtundra's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:25 am

I'm dumbfounded that MLF has not run out of cliches to describe the abysmal state of this team.

10 points
10
0
Cheezehead72's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:47 am

When he became HC his wife gave him a present. The book 1001 Excuses. I believe he is on 763.

3 points
5
2
ricky's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:40 am

Some ideas. First, could it be that Barry is actively looking to get fired? Because the gross incompetence on the field every week is amazing. It seems as if the defense is becoming more and more disillusioned. As noted, how many times have they given up easy first downs on third down because of super soft coverage? Third and four? Play seven yards off the receiver, who runs five yards, catches the ball and is tackled immediately, but still has the first down. The last two games were particularly awful. No sacks of DeVito? A perfect passing rating for Mayfield? And as noted, no adjustments, no changes, just do what isn't working and hope for different results? This isn't incompetence; it's willful undermining of the defense by someone who seems to be actively trying to "stick it" to the team.
On another note, what happened to all the pre-snap movements and misdirection we saw from the offense in the Lions and Chiefs games? Love seemed to thrive in those weeks, throwing on time, with accuracy and confidence. Then he plays the Giants, and seems nervous, inaccurate and flustered, especially at the start of the game. Where he had shown that his footwork was improving, suddenly it was time for "happy feet" and more off balance throws. Could it be that the coaching staff is not emphasizing the basics? Or simply trying to "over coach" after years of sailing along with Rodgers?
In the end, what do I expect? Barry finally gone. LaFleur bringing in another sub-par DC who will work relatively cheaply, and retains the rest of the staff. And so it goes.

4 points
5
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:14 am

"On another note, what happened to all the pre-snap movements and misdirection we saw from the offense in the Lions and Chiefs games?"

I think some of that is due to Reed playing injured. He clearly is playing through injury.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:42 am

Al your weekly polluted mindset columns are always excellent but this is one of your best! You have spoken for all of us and you have said it all. Speaking for myself I have nothing to add. Thanks, Since '61

22 points
22
0
Boneman's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:43 am

Is there such a thing as 'smartfounded'? I'd rather have that.

10 points
10
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:45 am

With JB, nothing is found to be smart. Not keeping him, not hiring him, not interviewing him.

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:46 am

I'm dumbfounded at how 2 weeks ago everyone (except for the haters), were crowning LaFleur the coach of the year. 2 weeks later after the defense has been horrible, now people are ready to fire LaFleur again.

Can we as fans just stop this rollercoaster ride. Its simply exhausting.

-3 points
7
10
HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:09 am

RC, we will stop when LaFleur stops!

8 points
8
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:52 am

Stops what?

-1 points
1
2
PackAttackJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:08 am

Being head coach,,,,

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:25 am

Ok, who do you want in his place?

Who would do better with what they have then what LaFleur has done?

-4 points
1
5
fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:56 am

I want someone who has the cajones to fire an incompetent DC and doesn't act like a spoiled brat on the sidelines.

4 points
5
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:22 am

names!!! i need names!

-6 points
0
6
Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:44 am

The most bankrupt argument of someone who has no other to make. Maybe you like the status quo. Unless that’s true, then this is as empty as Mondays excuses from LaFleur. If it is true, I suspect you are in a very tiny minority.

5 points
6
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:52 am

Status quo?

You do understand this is a rebuilding year, with a team that is building an offense. You do understand that correct? This is the youngest offense in the league. It is the youngest WR and TE position in the history of the game (if I remember right). And if you have been paying attention which by most of your posts you aren't, they are improving!

LaFleur fucked up in keeping Barry. You can tell he knows this. His flawed plan didn't work. So in a few weeks they will reset the defense.

But they are building something on offense. Its not a status quo. Building and rebuilding takes time. They knew this. Any reasonably smart fan should be able to understand this.

-8 points
0
8
barutanseijin's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:35 pm

And your incessant & irrational whining about Lafleur is somehow better? I’m assuming the whinging serves some therapeutic purpose for you, but perhaps consider addressing your problems directly.

1 points
1
0
HawkPacker's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:32 am

His roller coaster ride.

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:06 am

what roller coaster ride?

-2 points
0
2
x24's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:03 am

Right with you here RC. The highs and lows this season have exposed near bear-fan level Homerism I did not expect in Packer's fans

-9 points
1
10
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:26 am

its truly exhausting!

literally 2 weeks ago after beating the Chiefs, people are talking about LaFleur being the coach of the year.

-8 points
2
10
x24's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:10 pm

Beat the Chiefs- "In Gute we trust!"
This week- "Fire the entire front office!"

1 points
2
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:15 pm

exactly.

its just so damn exhausting.

1 points
2
1
Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:35 pm

No one I know ,nor have I read here or any sane Packer fan talking about coach of the year in GB. Not that it matters. I don't see him as even a head coach. And if his players rally around the next few games and run the table I would be absolutely stunned.

1 points
1
0
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:21 am

After the young O struggled to a 2-5 start in close games, it did seem Acting OC MLF was finally understanding his players strengths and weaknesses to go 4-1 and get to 6-6. Apparently not.

The last two games have relieved fans of "irrational exuberance", thinking the Offense could carry the team. They can't right now. The OL is a mess and the run game is again an afterthought. The Defense is too soft and easily exploited to expect O to win track meet games. The STs cannot be trusted to help...instead of field flippers they are hole diggers.

D and STs have been perennial problems during MLF's 4 years. I note he does not invest much (if any) of his time with either team. Therefore he better hire top notch coordinators to pick up the slack. Whoops.

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:20 am

The last 2 games the offense has been without Watson. That is a huge piece to the offense. Any coincidence that the offense hasn't looked as good the last 2 games? They have been without Musgrave for a few games. Also a big piece. Dillon just missed his first game of his career. Jones just came back from missing a bunch of games.

The defense was supposed to carry this team this year. That never happened.

-5 points
1
6
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:04 am

Both winnable games with O production. Both games lost by easy to attack Barry Ball prevent (the win) defense.

I don't think Watson would have improved the Defense much.

5 points
6
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:10 am

So basically what we are saying is the offense is fine (love had a bad game and still managed to get them in position to win the game, taking a late lead in the 4th). And the next game it was better, but the defense imploded.

Watson makes the offense much better! I think we win the Giants game easily if he is playing. And I think he makes it a much closer game against Tampa.

We can all agree that the defense needs new coaches. But there is nothing wrong with the offense. Other then youth and inexperience, and injuries.

-6 points
0
6
barutanseijin's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:39 pm

Longer drives, more TOP, leads or bigger leads would obviously help the defense.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:26 am

Pretty much you were the only one crowning him. Most of us found that laughable or at least implausible. The posts are out there.

5 points
6
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:22 am

Crowning him? When have I crowned anyone?

-3 points
1
4
Bitternotsour's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:26 pm

No serious person was touting Matt LaFleur as a coach of the year candidate. There may have been some clickbaiting, but no one could seriously have thought that.

7 points
7
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:59 pm

you need to look back 2 weeks ago... Read everywhere. Its out there.

This is where we live though. We win people are happy. We lose people are miserable. The only thing really consistent are the ones that are miserables all the time, they just get louder during losses.

-1 points
2
3
Coldworld's picture

December 20, 2023 at 03:59 pm

Lol

0 points
0
0
Packers0808's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:49 am

I am dumbfounded that nobody has found LaFluer dumb!

5 points
9
4
CheesedDeadHead's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:03 pm

"I am dumbfounded that nobody has found LaFluer dumb!"

I know you are mostly trying to be funny, but MLF isn't dumb. He just seems to have a learning disability for certain types of information. He almost never comments on something he saw live and always defers to "need to watch the film". I doubt he's afraid of being wrong because he always takes the blame for anything and everything. He watches that film and has difficulty coming up with solutions. He is slow to adapt to game situations. I just think he needs a lot more time than is needed to function in a fast moving competition like the NFL. I bet if he had a year he could come up with some very innovative plays, but if he needs to make a decision in 30 seconds, he is not your man, nor is he the type to be able to go through 30 minutes of football and make changes at the half. He can't process information that fast.

1 points
2
1
barutanseijin's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:42 pm

C’mon. That’s completely disingenuous . You should know “I need to look at the film” is just coachspeak. He’s just trying to avoid saying anything.

0 points
0
0
ImaPayne's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:35 pm

Dumb? He was smart enough to coach on a good coaches coat tail and when given the chance, picked a team with a hof qb in place. This he didn't get into any team building scenario with other offers.
Then he sits back for three years and bennies from that hof qb carrying the team.
Now he is exposed and we're seeing who he really isn't, a fine young coach with great ideas and leadership abilities. A weak sister afraid to make changes.

-1 points
0
1
Tundraboy's picture

December 21, 2023 at 10:36 pm

Not dumb, but I'm dumbfounded that anyone believes he should still be the coach of this team. How many more embarrassing performances and losses?

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:56 am

The only way this all really makes sense is if LaF has already been told he won't be retained past 2023, but there's no way that could be kept under wraps in today's media mess.

3 points
3
0
Guam's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:18 am

Once again spot on Dobber. None of this makes any rational sense...

4 points
4
0
TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:34 am

But remember, the NFL is mostly about DOLLARS and cents.

2 points
3
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:47 am

NFL - never fiduciary losses?

2 points
2
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 20, 2023 at 05:23 pm

I think it more likely that he's been told he's safe for next year. They'll fire Barry at season's end and give Matt one more year. They'll hire a young hotshot coordinator, either that or one of the two from the Eagles, Matt Patricia or Sean Desai, whichever one isn't retained.

0 points
0
0
GregC's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:18 am

That was a bizarre performance by the defense. All of Barry's shortcomings were on display throughout the game. Usually there are lapses at various points in the game, but rarely, if ever, anything like this. I've offered lukewarm defenses of Barry at times, i. e., he's not as bad as people say he is, he's just average. And the stats mostly back me up on that. After the win against the Chiefs, the Packers were 9th in the league in points allowed, which is actually better than average. And I'm not convinced that the talent on our defense is anything special. Which players are really good besides Rashan Gary and Kenny Clark?

I think the problem with Barry is that he has a system, and he trusts the system. It's not a horrible system, but it's not a great one either, and he tends to just sit there and trust the system, even when it's not working. Then we get things like DeVondre Campbell covering Chris Godwin. Campbell looked like a statue out there, and he's repeatedly covering a WR. Just bizarre.

3 points
6
3
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:18 am

Greg -

"After the win against the Chiefs, the Packers were 9th in the league in points allowed, which is actually better than average. And I'm not convinced that the talent on our defense is anything special. Which players are really good besides Rashan Gary and Kenny Clark?"

P Smith. Most stats only happen because of his contributions. He's been playing consistently great.

#93 Slaton. He's not consistently great. I think there are times when he dominates his 1 on 1 matchups, because he figured out how to beat that opponent. Other times he's caught in a bad position, and loses his battle. I think this explains his streakiness.

95 Wyatt. For his time in the NFL, he's very good. I think expecting a rookie from the draft to upgrade our O line is foolish. Spend the top 3 draft picks on IOL, maybe get 1 who contributes first year. If you're lucky. #94 & 96 are in that category. #99 J Ford listed at 6'5" 338# has not even been called up against teams we know rely on a strong run game. Can't tell if he's even adequate like that, a really bad coaching decision.

Ja is obviously really good. Stokes shouldn't have been used so heavily right away, let him get his feet wet and adjust back to playing. He should be really good, but I don't think that's ever been proven.

Savage is a player people here love to hate, but he's made a ton of really good plays this season. And missed some, too.

Our edge rushers are so good that Cox hasn't been elevated.

McDuffie brings nasty to this team, maybe more than anyone else but at least near the top. Quay is not a complete player yet, but you can't deny his effort and speed.

Nixon has made tons of great plays, and is the hungriest player on the team. It's not even close! His one boneheaded mistake resulting in a turnover instead of a return (or even reception) doesn't negate that. I do agree with LH that taking returns out of the game not by rule change but by taking the touchback and kicking the touchback would be good strategy for this team. Between ST penalties and injury risk, that's enough. Factor in #25's net yardage on returns; Idk his total for the year but it seems like it would be a negative compared to just taking the touchback. Although he did have a few long ones.

Valentine was overhyped after some great plays. He commits penalties nearly constantly. There's a fine line between playing with the intensity required to win in the NFL vs hurting your team. I question whether GB has a coach capable of dialing that in, but he clearly has the potential to become at least really good, maybe a great.

S was a known weakness heading into this season, and the fact it's only been exploited recently is, frankly, surprising. Especially considering all the injuries to our secondary, and getting rid of Rasul Douglas as if he had leprosy.

9th doesn't match their talent. JB has had the unit underperforming consistently, even in games they won.

JB doesn't have a system. He has one trick: slow down the other team's O when you have a two score lead. It's only a good strategy to close out the final 5 minutes of either half.

0 points
1
1
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:00 am

Barry Ball is a horrible "system". The system says "play zone" on 3rd and long so slower ILBs are asked to cover 4.3 WRs streaking through the ILBs system zone to play catch and move the chains. System says play 2 DL on 3rd and 4 to protect against a possible pass only to give up 6 easy yards. Blitz ILBs or a S? System says no.

It is a prevent (the win) defense designed to play with a lead. It elevates a system over employing players' strengths to attack an opponent. It is a coaching lazy, uncreative, status quo system.

After he is fired after the season...who of the other 31 teams will be candidates to hire him and trust him run his system for their Defense? What top NFL Defensive player would want to play in it?

5 points
5
0
fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:01 am

His system is bend but don''t break but too often it's bend and break.

2 points
2
0
BAMABADGER's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:42 am

GC, it is a horrible system. The photo of the defensive set with 2 safeties 30-35 yards of the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 4.............. what more proof do you need?

6 points
6
0
coolhand's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:23 pm

And also against the Giants, in the 4th quarter when they had the lead and everyone KNEW they were going to run the ball with Barkley, barry put in his nickel D with 2 down lineman and Barkley broke off that big run. Fortunately he fumbled and gave us a chance, but if he doesn't fumble, that game is over and we lose by more than just a FG.

0 points
1
1
Qoojo's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:15 pm

Packers D has allowed over 200 yds rushing in 4 games, and over 140 yds in 8 games. Games with more rushing tend to be faster games. Additionally, a few games in the first half, the offense was so bad that opponents did not need to be aggressive.

The run defense has sucked pretty much all year, and now that DBs are getting injured, the pass D is sucking and dropped to middle of the pack or worse.

2 points
2
0
coolhand's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:25 pm

When you have the CBs playing 10 yards off and backing up, safeties playing 20 yards off and backing up, and ILBs playing 5-7 yards off and backing up to 15 to 20 yards off, how are you going to stop anything? And no one covers anybody!

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:21 am

Current coaching staff is not organizing the resources to get consistent results. Even with Rodgers we had a hot and cold offense. But I think this goes beyond the coaching staff. Gutekunst is the architect of the team. He drafts the talent and nature of the team. It would be wishful to think that this O-line or D-line could carry us to a serious playoff run. Could our backfield be considered a threat or balanced attack? Only the best coaches in football could mould this talent into a serious contender. Gutekunst needs to look beyond RAS and find real football players - guys like Rasul Douglas. Arrrgh!

2 points
5
3
PackAttackJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:21 am

You're absolutely right about Gute relying far too much on RAS and not enough on finding dawgs who play tough in a team concept.

4 points
5
1
coolhand's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:29 pm

How many times did flower give up running the ball, even with ARod? He would even admit after the game he should run the ball more, but never changed from game to game. Taylor makes a couple of mistakes and he never sees the ball. The new guy makes one mistake and never sees the ball again. And he claimed he had Jones on a snap count and uses them all up on the first drive and we barely see Jones after that. The flower's game decisions show me he is NOT and will NEVER be a successful HC, along with his player and coaching personnel decisions adding to his failures.

0 points
1
1
wollner27's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:22 am

I'm dumbfounded by the communication issues....

I'm dumbfounded that they let Jerry Gray walk more or less alluding to the fact he was the reason for said communication issues....

I'm dumbfounded that the safeties and corners are still pointing and telling each other what to do as the ball is being snapped....

I'm dumbfounded by Head Coaches (McCarthy, LaFleur) saying they should probably be more involved, because that always works....

I'm dumbfounded that this defense can't recognize personnel on offense, then make the adjustment to match the personnel....

Long story short, they would be better off simplifying and telling their athletes to trust themselves to make a play because right now, this stand back and watch approach, keeping everything in front of them isn't working

7 points
7
0
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:35 am

I am dumbfounded Coach Gray, who hated Barry Ball, told Barry and MLF he and his players hated Barry Ball...but was still begged by MLF to remain in Green Bay to coach Barry Ball.

If, as HC, after a 2022 of assistant coaching discord on Defense, you timidly still embrace the discord status quo...well, I found that REALLY DUMB.

5 points
5
0
coolhand's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:32 pm

I remember early this season flower saying there were going to be big changes in the defense and he was going to even see what OTHER teams were doing successfully in order to improve the Packers. I wonder what teams he and barry were looking at, if any.

0 points
0
0
tobinrote's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:43 am

nothing will change until the stands are empty or filled with the opponents fans. i am unloading my tickets; this is such a badly run outfit. and you can sense the shame of the D players as they are schemed out of making any stops. Jersey AL just nails it, as he is in the habit of doing. I hope he has enough cred to get someone to take notice of his well reasoned views.

6 points
6
0
fthisJack's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:14 am

How much?

0 points
0
0
CentralPA_PackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:50 am

“You’ve got to affect the quarterback, if you can’t get there with four, you’ve got to bring five, and if you can’t get there with five you’ve got to bring six. That’s my philosophy.” Ejiro Evero upon joining the Broncos as the DC in 2022.

“If you can't get there with four, you’ve got to bring five, and if you can’t get there with five you’ve got to bring six.” Fritz Shurmur Packers DC for 1996 season Super Bowl Champs.

I know who is on my wish list to replace Barry. Evero will probably be available after the Panthers finish their season, and MLF would finally get to see what a Vic Fangio-based scheme defense looks like when it's run aggressively (instead of Barry marshmallow soft).

9 points
9
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:28 am

Brilliant!

0 points
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0
barutanseijin's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:07 am

As soon as they get burned bringing extra guys you folks will be telling us what an idiot the DC is and demanding he be fired.

-1 points
1
2
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:10 am

Hi there Joe! Those Onions making your eyes water or are those real tears?

0 points
1
1
CentralPA_PackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:02 pm

Living in Central PA, I've seen mutliple DCs in Philly, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore creatively bring extra guys in top, aggressive defenses for years, so trust me, I won't get excited as soon as Evero would get burned bringing extra guys. It happens to everyone. Even the best. You just want way more sacks, turnovers, and throw aways caused by your blitzes than big plays.

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 07:52 pm

Exactly, a timid approach, being reluctant to be aggressive is far worse. It does require coaching and discipline so there's that prerequisite that we lack.

0 points
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0
CanPackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:17 am

LaFleur could never hire someone as competent as Evero. He would rather hire some friend he has coached with before. Is it laziness or just an inability to access people he has no association with? If the latter, what is he doing as a HC?

2 points
2
0
coolhand's picture

December 20, 2023 at 06:34 pm

I would NOT be surprised at all the flower fires barry and brings in Brandon Staley who is just as bad as barry.

-1 points
0
1
Ferrari-Driver's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:50 am

Joe Barry reminds me of a guy who plays chess which is a game that requires thinking and adjustments in real time, but simply is unable to do so at a competent level.

3 points
3
0
LeotisHarris's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:51 am

CHTV has underutilized slideshows and listicles, imho. Wouldn't hurt to put Jennerjohn on a mission to match LaFleur's sideline facial expressions with:

Dumbfounded
Astonished
Stunned
Bewildered
Flabbergasted
Speechless
Confounded
Perplexed
Baffled
Stupefied

You Won't Believe These 10 Matt LaFleur Facial Expressions!

12 points
12
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:31 am

Music listened to: Stupify, by Disturbed

3 points
3
0
Bitternotsour's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:50 pm

I'm in favor of actually expanding the vocabulary.

OBLIVIOT - Barry playing soft zone on 3rd and 4 - obliviocy.
BOEBERT - MLF staring blankly at the game unwinding with a Boebert stare on his dimwitted face
GHOSTCRAWLER - Yet another press conference with LaFleur ghostcrawling past basic and obvious concern's about onfield issues because of his inability to fix said issue, and then defending it with poor statistics or bad napkin math.
MORON SAUCE - when moronic just isn't sufficient - a defense finished with moron sauce.

2 points
2
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LeotisHarris's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:35 pm

::fistbump::

1 points
1
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TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:55 pm

As always, well done, sir! 👏
Could “flummoxed” possibly be included? I’m also a new devotee of “gobsmacked” now that I’ve learned what that word means.

2 points
2
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LeotisHarris's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:35 pm

Beauties. my brother from another mother! We shall include them in Matt LaFleur's Vocabulary Builder-Upper.

2 points
2
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 20, 2023 at 05:27 pm

I think gobsmacked only applies to our fanbase every time we see that Barry is still coaching our defense.

2 points
2
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bleedgreen's picture

December 20, 2023 at 03:33 pm

I would add Befuddled to that list

2 points
2
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:49 pm

Those were great LH. After reading the entire list, I realized I did most of those myself while watching the last game.

2 points
2
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HarryHodag's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:06 am

2025. There will be just limited change until then. MLF might bow to pressure and release Barry, but otherwise this stays until a new CEO arrives. I'm hoping at that time that one person is put in charge of the football operations, like Ron Wolf was three decades ago. A person with broad knowledge of the game who is also given the right to hire-fire the personnel director and the coach.

You can see clearly how the 'silo' approach in management has led to a 'whose on first'-type mess.

7 points
7
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:35 am

MM told us if his idea didn't work, it would become obvious. Well, it has.

Player Personnel Director, is that currently different from Gutey?

If JB and a few lower coaches are replaced this off-season, that's better than no change until 2025. If there's a complete roster in 2025 but a new coaching staff that maybe doesn't gel yet, that doesn't predict a very good year. That's why I want to see sensible changes ASAP.

0 points
1
1
Tundraboy's picture

December 21, 2023 at 11:05 pm

Yes, you, we, are being too sensible I guess. I think that with the development we already have seen this year, it would be the perfect time to make a coaching overhaul. It may have even enhanced the DC and HC positions appeal.

0 points
0
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Via.Lombardi's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:48 am

James Webb Telescope Finds Evidence Of Packers Secondary Lined Up 20 Million Light Years Off Receivers
https://www.theonion.com/james-webb-telescope-finds-evidence-of-packers-...

7 points
7
0
LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:16 am

During his tenure of DC coaching failure, has Barry's D ever been featured in "The Onion"?

Congratulations, Joe!

Imagine how the D players feel.

3 points
3
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Qoojo's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:58 am

As long as we are posting stories about space,

"NASA releases new images of Uranus, offering glimpse of one rarely seen feature"

https://nypost.com/2023/12/18/news/nasa-releases-new-images-of-uranus-of...

0 points
0
0
LLCHESTY's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:00 pm

Mine has a lot of interesting features whenever I eat at Taco Bell. "I didn't know it could do that!"

1 points
1
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packerbackerjim's picture

December 20, 2023 at 09:54 am

Gute needs to make the call this offseason if MLFis to return. His future beyond MM is uncertain; having a very good 2024 season will look good on his resume.

1 points
2
1
BAMABADGER's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:01 am

It's not Gute's call. MLF reports directly to MM. The silo management structure is the major problem with this organization. If MLF is to weak of a manager to replace Barry and other coaching staff deficiencies, he needs to be replaced by MM. If MM refuses to make the move, the BOD (also weaklings) should give MM the Golden Parachute a year early. Management needs "all gas no brake."

5 points
5
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albert999's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:30 am

Great dumfounding post Al

3 points
3
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LambeauPlain's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:50 am

The last 3 games I am looking to see Love growing in decisions/making plays and as a field general. I like the young man's talent and upside. Jordan has not surprised me in his performance...and has done better than expected. I had hoped the D would help carry the team early as the O learned on the go...but it was a fool's hope.

I do not care about the record now. After nearly 3 years of being dumbfounded by Barry Ball, I have travelled through my stages of Defensive Grief and have arrived at "acceptance" that MLF has accepted incompetence on Defense as the Packer Way. So be it.

I do look forward to seeing Love and his young receivers...especially if Musgrave and Watson can return to play in 12 personnel with Kraft, Reed, Wicks, Heath and Doubs (who needs to reappear).

9 points
9
0
CanPackFan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:33 am

Isn't it sad that instead of having hopes of competitiveness and winning we must look forward to some of our players developing regardless of the game scores? This is the low bar that MLF and Barry want us to accept.

I always accepted that this year would be a development season. But I never expected that the defense would regress so badly. I expected that Barry would honor his promise to be more aggressive this season. Either the latter point was a lie or he just can't help being self destructive? I've come to believe that Barry is just too lazy and resistant to change. Someone like that cannot lead in the reality that is our world.

2 points
2
0
Tundraboy's picture

December 20, 2023 at 08:00 pm

As I think Taryn would say, wishing and hoping that the Defense clicks is not enough to count on with this team, until proven otherwise. I think that was several years back and here we are.

0 points
0
0
Qoojo's picture

December 20, 2023 at 10:54 am

How many times has he used communication as the problem this year? Sorry to keep bring this up, but the first red flag for me was Love's first start and MLF did not prepare for being blitzed. He has done little to change my mind that he is nothing more than a mediocre OC. JB should have never been hired and should have definitely never returned this year.

The multitude of times using two defensive lineman front on short yardage should have got JB his walking papers. The bend-but-don't-break defense that constantly breaks. When JB's defensive scheme isn't screwing things up, players like Nixon get burned, so then we get a situation like MM with Capers thinking it's a player issue. But as shown by Al in his 3 plays, it's JB. One of the defenses best performances in previous seasons was when JB wasn't around to call the game.

Now you can't fire your young HC at the first wrong doing. You have to let them learn and grow into the position. I think MLF has had enough time that he should be showing signs of growth and learning. His teams appear to make the same mistakes, and he cannot make the difficult personnel decisions.

5 points
5
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Packers0808's picture

December 20, 2023 at 11:08 am

At this point all I can figure is Barry must have something on LaFluer that he doesn't want his wife to know to stay employed!

0 points
3
3
Green Bay Shareholder's picture

December 20, 2023 at 12:17 pm

What happens if they lose to the Panthers ?

0 points
0
0
TKWorldWide's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:05 pm

They fall to 6-9.

3 points
3
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Lare's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:31 pm

Nothing.

3 points
3
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Packers0808's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:58 pm

People will just keep on bitching and be couch coaches!

-2 points
1
3
Alberta_Packer's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:26 pm

I think what has really bubbled up to the surface is MLFs lack of defensive aptitude - first shown by hiring a B list coach to run a prime time defense. Simply MLF does not know much about an NFL defense. Furthermore, the Packers have no exigency plan in place should the DC not be able to do his job - which is managerial shortsightedness.

In the hiring of the next DC - neither MLF or Mark Murphy should be be anywhere near the interview room. It should solely be the responsibility of the GM (Gutekunst). Of course with the inept and meddlesome Murphy, and his protege (MLF), this is not likely to happen.

What really would benefit the Packers the most - is to fire MLF - in order to find a better-rounded HC. And to jettison Murphy into an early retirement. Otherwise the team's future will look exactly like it's past.

6 points
6
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croatpackfan's picture

December 20, 2023 at 01:42 pm

Al, Aaron, Cory and others on the CHTV start that petition to fire those who are taking Packers down. There is a lot of people you will attract with that petition and you'll be less dumbfounded in the future...

0 points
0
0
Packers0808's picture

December 20, 2023 at 02:01 pm

Bury Barry Christmas!

-1 points
1
2
bleedgreen's picture

December 20, 2023 at 03:21 pm

Barry has to go. We need a good defensive mind who can communicate with and teach these young players how to play football in the nfl and that can develop a winning defensive game plan. My fear is the defense will play just well enough against the inferior teams coming up that it will save his job. As far as MLF goes he may be a decent OC but is not HC material. This team has taken on the MLF personality... Soft. We need a new leader who will hold people accountable not make excuses for them.