Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Air LaFleur
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
I started writing this on Monday night from a hotel in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, approximately 5 minutes after I just watched Aaron Rodgers throw a Hail Mary TD pass just before halftime. Boy did that bring back some memories.
Speaking of memories, Rodgers to Adams is about to become a thing again. After another act of Jets desperation, Davante Adams is a Jet. Now, instead of forcing the ball to Garrett Wlson (which has had mixed results), Rodgers will have his favorite target in the world to seek out at critical times while ignoring other open receivers. I'm not bitter at all...
I watched the game in SC with a few Packer fan friends, to whom I had predicted that this was the game that the Packers offense would break out. It was just a gut feel that they were ready to "re-find their identity with Watson and Doubs returning to the lineup. The Packers receiver corps and air attack (Air LaFleur) is just a nightmare for opposing defenses, with no obvious receiver to key on and take away (ten players were targeted against the Cardinals and nine caught passes). And of course, that also opens things up for Jacobs and Wilson when teams can't load the box. And let's not forget Tucker Kraft, who wasn't needed much against the Cardinals. What's a defensive coordinator to do?
Can someone explain to me why potential free plays keep getting shut down by the referees when there is no threat to the quarterback?
Suffice to say, the Packers are now experts at containing running quarterbacks. The secret sauce, it seems, is to focus on not over-committing in hopes of making a big tackle. Stay at home, take good angles, force the QB wide when you can, using the sideline to limit free space. The angles taken against Murray when he was in the open field were outstanding. They didn't run right at Murray, they ran to the spot where Murray was heading to, taking away that option. The end result was that they made Murray have to beat them with his arm, which can be inaccurate. It worked beautifully.
Jordan Love is starting to resemble the quarterback of the last half of last season. His mobility is much improved as his knee has improved, which is also likely responsible for his improved accuracy as well.
My friends and I were discussing how Narveson had been looking better practically one minute before he hit another one wide from the left hashmark. This appears to have been a major miscalculation by the Packers and can't be allowed to go on much longer.
Anyone else notice Rashan Gary giving himself a whiff of smelling salts on the field just before a play? It was with about 15 seconds left in the second half when the Cardinals eventually settled for a field goal. Does he carry it put on the field with him? Does he always have it on him somewhere? Is this no big deal or some kind of clue to his less than great performances this season? So many questions and this polluted mind needs to know.
Packers fans, we are living in a world where defensive adjustments are being made on-the-fly in-game and TD-resulting offensive plays are being drawn up on the sideline. I'm just a little bit giddy about this.
Getting back to the Rodgers Hail Mary, that could have been a storybook moment that turns the Jets' season around, if not for their kicker later delivering two doinks on field goal tries and Rodgers looking every bit of his age after taking some hits in the fourth quarter. I truly do feel for Jets fans.
And speaking of missed field goals, on the Uber ride back home from the airport last night, my phone lit up with the news that the Packers were signing a new kicker - Brandon McManus. I feel sorry for the Narveson kid, and will miss his 100% extra point stats, but this just couldn't go on any longer. Looking at McManus' 10-year career, he's been 91% on field goals of 49 yards or less, but only 55% on field goals of 50 yards or more. So he's not going to be in the group of current kickers hitting 50+ yard field goals seemingly in his sleep, but if he just makes the easy ones Narveson was missing, I think we should all be good with that.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (121)
Boneman
October 16, 2024 at 06:23 am
It's easy to get excited about the Packers offense. At this point 30+ points a game is not only realistic but expected. This version can beat defenses in multiple ways, including with the running game. I'm most excited by the DEFENSE! It is starting to look like we really found a top notch coach on that side of the ball. Forget about all the 'money' stats everyone keeps harping on like pressures, sacks, PFF etc, etc, etc. Can they play winning football? Make the stops when they need too? Get game changing turnovers? I think the answer is looking like...yes. Coupled with this offense the Packers are on their way. Unfortunately it won't be easy. The Vikings already beat us at Home and the Lions and Bears look very good indeed. One week, one game at a time, stack successes. The path to another Title for Titletown is there. GPG!
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:27 am
30?!?
Pfft, this team can put up 40 on ANYBODY! Keep improving, the talent is there
GPG!!
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 03:54 pm
And yet, hasn't put up 40 on anybody, mostly because they stop themselves.
Bitternotsour
October 16, 2024 at 04:16 pm
I will remind you that we're just entering the zone. 40 point games are coming. there will be slips along the way, but the momentum is building. (As though by plan)
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 16, 2024 at 02:24 pm
Having expectations is a great path to disappointment. For me it seems to work better to let the season play out with its ups and downs on both sides of the ball.
Mister Chievous
October 16, 2024 at 06:46 pm
fortunately, the reason we lost to Minny has been jettisoned
T7Steve
October 16, 2024 at 06:31 am
" I'm not bitter at all..." Thanks for starting my day out with a laugh, Al!
I noticed on most of the offsides that were stopped that the left guard stood up pointing too soon. If he'd have stayed set everything would have been free play. If anyone on the O-line moves the official has to stop the play.
Sounds like the new kicker at least tries to have some fun on long plane rides. Hope this guy can start to get us some consistency. Just to make sure, let's just have him kick extra points after TDs.
PeteK
October 16, 2024 at 07:13 am
I don't think female flight attendants would agree with you. Might spill some scalding coffee on his meat puppet.
T7Steve
October 16, 2024 at 07:22 am
Yah. That sounds disgusting. Wonder if there's not more to the story because the NFL isn't pursuing it, and the Packers wouldn't bring in someone they didn't investigate thoroughly?
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 08:29 am
A few of the details I found about the claims of the two flight attendants who claimed McManus sexually assaulted them:
1. The alleged incident happened in Sept. of 2023 on a Jaguars overseas flight on a chartered plan. Lots of partying by the team during the flight with other flight attendants besides the two alleged "victims".
2. No charges were ever filed by the alleged victims.
3. The two attendants filed a lawsuit in May of 2024 after trying to "resolve" the issue with a payment that McManus would not make.
4. Of course both attendants' lives have been deeply scarred due to emotional distress and loss of $1 Million + in potential payments from McManus per their May lawsuit and demanded a jury trial.
5. The judge dismissed the lawsuit in early September finding no grounds for the suit and the NFL has dropped it.
He's the best FG available (81% career on FGs) and a former SB winner with the Broncos in 2015. Has been ST player of the week a few times. Has kicked to help win many games over the years.
Gutey remains impatient with specialists.
Too bad for Narveson but McManus is a better kicker for a team with SB potential.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 08:40 am
That’s not strictly accurate. The judge dismissed the lawsuit because the plaintiffs sought to remain anonymous. There is a very old and strong presumption in law that that opposes the right to make allegations without standing openly behind them, absent a clear possibility of harm to the plaintiffs if their identities become known outside the courtroom. The case was saved from dismissal on that technical issue by a September, post investigation, refilling.
The initial complaint was pretty sparse, but their real target appears to be the team as the employer for failing in its obligations to educate and control its personnel and for breaching NFL rules in a way that just happened to create a toxic work environment.
Reading between the lines, these two may well have been a part of getting at least one colleague fired for non-sexual interaction with a group of players of which McManus was part that wanted to party. Other players were allegedly segregated in a quiet area by choice. That suggests that the cabin crew may not be on the same sides here, it also may suggest that their employer has a more complex relationship with the dispute.
They also allege that the team (and by implication the NFL community) “knew McManus was a heavy drinker to the point of being sloppy drunk.” I assume that issue was a point of due diligence for the Packers before signing on its own merits.
I’m not defending McManus. He’s an ok not great kicker who is a lot better than Narveson has been. He also brings an elevated risk that something bad hits the news in season. The more I read of the complaint however, that would have to come from another person on the flight joining the suit suddenly or a revelation of similar past behavior. The risk is there, but how substantial it is in the 4 months we have him for is impossible to know without a lot of due diligence.
Overall, we let this go to a point where I don’t see a similarly proven kicker (not well past their prime) being available. As a damage limitation move, I think we could have done better, but SF grabbed the last proven one without known physical or other issues, and he’s now hurt (causing them to sign Carlson). It looks like he is still going to be retained. It looks too like there was no way Carlson was being invited back/interested in coming.
McManus was the last credible opportunity. Bullock has struggled for distance, had a bad hamstring injury in December and may have declined further. Patterson hasn’t done anything good in multiple seasons. About the only proven options left are in Canada at this point or at the end of their careers physically (Bullock & Crosby) and having big issues with distance. It’s possible we could have traded draft capital to rent a good kicker from a bad team (Pinero for example). But that takes 2 and at this point I think the cost and reward over McManus probably makes it a wash. McManus is fine as a kicker based upon his career to date. That draft capital is going to be useful.
This is not a great outcome. We could have done better in spring, said with the benefit of hindsight of course. It’s a very much better outcome than any other I see in October. We have an adequate kicker. Next year we can start this all up again. My guess is the delay was in part establishing confidence in McManus through due diligence as much as giving Narveson a chance. I’m glad they jumped while they still could once they were comfortable.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 09:17 am
"That’s not strictly accurate." As accurate as the September news article I read to supply the info.
The case was dismissed in a court of law. That's accurate.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 09:38 am
No. It would have automatically been dismissed had not the plaintiffs refilled a new complaint that remedied the deficiencies in the Judge’s prior dismissal order.
As to articles, journalists aren’t lawyers and sometimes misconstrue procedure or technicalities. Some additional simplification is to be expected in articles they want read . Most civil filings are available if you know how to find them. I was not intending to question your integrity in summarizing additional info, just to respond to what seemed misleading.
I just want to note that I can write pretty much what I want in a complaint that isn’t going to be shown up as lacking any plausible basis in fact. That doesn’t mean it’s true or even a credible slant on the facts. In fact it’s a pretty low bar. Theres no response on the merits at this point, so we are just limited to what their lawyer is saying.
My guess, purely that, is that their lawyer’s primary hope is that he can get the team’s insurers to settle to avoid the costs litigation of its actions as an employer, which might be substantial.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 09:51 am
OK. I should have read the court proceedings about the dismissed case, I guess. Just to be sure...the case against our new kicker was dismissed, right?
I am confident Team Gutey has dealt with all the minutiae.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 10:15 am
Technically it was not because the plaintiffs refiled within the window to correct the adjudged legal deficiencies within the period permitted by the order for dismissal and it seems the court deemed that new filing adequately fixed those deficiencies.
I would not get too hung up on dismissal in civil cases, it doesn’t have the same significance as in criminal law. Cases are routinely dismissed and refiled. Unless the case is dismissed “with prejudice” (which essentially means that the case is resolved by determination findings of the court or rule—such as being time barred or simply deemed without legal basis), the plaintiffs can refile at will. Here the court simply said that if you want to make these allegations you are going to have identify yourselves and ruled that the original complaint failed to do so. It made no findings on and will not have even considered, the merits of the complaint, positive or negative, because the complaint was legally insufficiently pled.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 10:33 am
The case as refiled is currently active. The lawyers for those sued will now be preparing responses. If it makes it past that, it will be going through the initial stages of setting up a calendar for pre trial motions and discovery. The process isn’t a fast one. I did not bother to check the court docket. It’s in the earliest stages.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 11:06 am
Thanks, CW.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 05:30 pm
PS:
McManus and his lawyer are now stating that it’s “resolved”. To me that suggests he and plaintiffs have reached a settlement agreement that releases any further claims against him that the court has approved it. A case against his former team could still continue in theory. As of today that doesn’t show up officially, but that’s takes a little while.
greengold
October 16, 2024 at 09:58 am
Appreciate the info, LP & CW.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 07:17 am
Many of those "stopped free plays" are coming earlier in the snap count. OL are coached to move and point in that case because if the center snaps the ball immediately, everything's a mess. If the OL doesn't move and point, the DL gets back and resets and it's just a play. The free plays come when the DL jumps just ahead of the snap.
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 04:01 pm
Back in the day, the Oline was instructed to remain set even if the D jumped offside. Now, apparently, the officials need the help of an offensive lineman pointing to see a 6' 5" 311 lb guy moving too early.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 05:31 pm
Pointing visibly signifies that the encroachment drew a response, if I recall correctly. I think the ideal is to engage contact.
JerseyAl
October 16, 2024 at 07:14 pm
That makes sense.
NickPerry
October 16, 2024 at 06:49 am
Al brought up a great point many of us thought about leading up to the regular season. THIS offense has so many weapons just who are you going to focus on? I mean I guess they'd try to focus on Reed but with this many options including a QB who's going to throw the ball to the OPEN man, defenses are going to have problems.
Speaking of defenses having problems, with all the weapons the Packers have and now MLF designing plays on the sideline on the go, there's not another play caller I'd rather have INCLUDING Shanahan. Personally I think Shanahan is overrated, but that could also be because of my dislike for the 49ers.
Brandon McManus... I'm a little surprised at this signing because of past allegations and it's the Packers history of avoiding such players. The NFL didn't find anything so I guess that was enough. Personally I've always believed in our system and the whole innocent until proven guilty ( Except with OJ ), so if the NFL is satisfied AND Gutey are satisfied, then I'm okay with this signing. I don't care if he doesn't even attempt a 50 plus yard FG, just hit EVERYTHING else!
GO PACK GO!
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 07:25 am
"THIS offense has so many weapons just who are you going to focus on? "
I think more than anything else the Packers are surprising opponents with how they've maintained their mojo from late last season running the ball. If they couldn't run the ball, DCs could go light boxes and play coverage...but they can't do that when the Packers are this effective in the run game.
"Brandon McManus... I'm a little surprised at this signing because of past allegations and it's the Packers history of avoiding such players."
More than anything else, they've reached the stage where something had to be done, and this guy is the best they can do. The Packers have avoided guys with really nasty--and guilty--histories, but of late they've taken chances on guys who have had checkered pasts and allegations. Reed a couple years ago was such a guy.
I think they've decided also that they'd rather give up field position on touchbacks on kickoffs than play coverage and risk penalties, so they're valuing the stronger leg. That might be in part why they'd decided to hang with Carlson and then Narveson as long as they did. McManus--who kicked a lot of his career at altitude--is a 75% touchback guy over his career (which is pretty good, but mitigated by runbacks), and, as Al notes, isn't a super big distance guy on FG.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 08:12 am
They've been kicking short a lot with Narveson--more than most other teams. Usually they are able to stop the return short of the 30-yard-line. They kicked short a lot with Carlson too. I'm okay with this. Penalties on kickoffs are almost always on the receiving team.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:42 am
I dunno, GB gets called for a LOT of penalties on ST. I'm not even saying that's bad refereeing, our STs might just be that bad?
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 08:56 am
I don't remember any penalties by our kick coverage teams.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 11:11 am
To be fair, many of those KOs that aren't counting as TBs have been run out of the end zone. AZ ran most of those back on Sunday rather than taking field position.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 09:49 am
The point you make when saying that they had “reached the stage where something had to be done, and this guy is the best they can do” nails it with simple, stark honesty.
As to McManus’ and distance. I’m not sure I agree. He did kick in Denver for much of his career, which clouds things further. A 75% touchback rate is pretty darn high under the old rules. That 25% encompasses deliberate tactical kicking as well as any short clubs. Under the old rules, tactics varied widely by team and coaches.
His longest FG is a 61 yarder. Thats a pretty good leg (I think it was in Denver, but still). His over 50 accuracy isn’t up there with a few young guns, but his leg strength over his career has seemed better than most contemporaries.
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 04:07 pm
'''''I think they've decided also that they'd rather give up field position on touchbacks on kickoffs than play coverage and risk penalties''''
Praise Jesus and pass the bacon. Somewhere, a mind has opened and seen the light. Why give your opponent a chance for a long kickoff return?
And now, the next question is, when it's 4th and 5 on the 30, are we going to take the ball away from Love & Co and give it to the guy who just got off the plane?
And I still think that an offense this good should be going for 2 after TDs.
Bitternotsour
October 16, 2024 at 04:19 pm
I think if it's 4th and 5 from the 30 that they will indeed hand it off to the guy who got off the plane to see what he's made of. They can still go get Carlson off the 49ers practice squad.
Leatherhead
October 17, 2024 at 06:59 am
I think you're right, and I think it's stupid. "Let's take this really good offense off the field, and give up any chance at 8 points, and instead settle for a FG attempt."
I'm not unhappy that the fullback isn't kicking FGs anymore, and I hope the new guy is better, but I still think we just kick too many FGs. Only 3 teams have attempted more FGs than the Packers.....Commies, Cowboys, 49ers....and the Cowboys and 49ers only have one more attempt, the Commies have two.
Bitternotsour
October 17, 2024 at 09:00 am
you know my feelings on the matter. I only want a kicker for kick-offs. all gas, no brakes.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:39 am
I'd be ok with opposing teams just focusing on stopping Reed. Partly because I don't think they can do it, partly because then they can't double team #9, partly because then #87 will be even WIDER open than he usually is, partly because #85 is less likely to be accounted for.
Even if defending a slot receiver clogs up the box and makes running between the tackles less likely to succeed I just don't see how anybody can defend ALL that, and offensive coordinators who can't sleep and have nightmares all week might be at a disadvantage.
A little more improvement and this team can put up 40 points on ANYBODY. Keep cutting down on penalties. JL10 having all his cleats on the ground while he throws gets some AMAZING results, more of that please! Protection allowing him time for a coke and a smoke finally became a reality; it's not reasonable to expect that on every play but it's a GREAT sign.
What a great time to be a Packer fan, GPG!!
Minniman
October 16, 2024 at 01:05 pm
And then you have Josh Jacobs and Wilson for check-downs on these plays - or on dedicated screens. Jacobs especially with his YA Contact abilities.
I'm looking forward to seeing Lloyd back now too. He could REALLY thrive with the 1 on 1 opportunities that MLF's spread offense offers.
.......They've come a long way since the 2019 WR grouping of Adams, Lazard, Kumerow, MVS and Davis.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 07:03 am
As much as I can't stand Rodgers, I have to admit that I enjoyed the hell out of that Hail Mary. And the Jets ended up losing anyway, which was perfect.
Smelling salts? I didn't even know that was a real thing. I looked it up, and the active ingredient is ammonia. It irritates the nasal passages and triggers an adrenaline rush. The only FDA-approved use of smelling salts is to prevent or treat fainting. Surprising that the NFL would allow them for other uses. Maybe it was something different that Gary was using.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 09:17 am
We don’t know that they are smelling salts, but if they are, they’ve long been common. In 2005, Michael Strahan estimated that 70–80% of National Football League players were using smelling salts as stimulants. Rugby players have long used them too.
I suspect the reason is less the “wake up” effect that got them banned from boxing, but the hit of increased air and thus oxygen intake and thus immediate recuperation that they induce. Clay Matthews was know to use the regularly. I should qualify this by noting that the benefits are disputed by some, but that’s why they are used commonly.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 09:34 am
Thanks, I hadn't heard of all that.
T7Steve
October 16, 2024 at 09:37 am
I think Favre used them especially on cold days.
Packers0808
October 16, 2024 at 12:39 pm
Kind of like the use of the nose strips to widen the nostrils, do they really help/work?
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 04:09 pm
I had a friend in college who had little "ammonia poppers'' and his favorite rotten trick was to use them on people who had passed out while partying. I can't describe sensation, but you'd see people literally jump up sometimes. Strong stuff.
PeteK
October 16, 2024 at 07:19 am
Rookies on defense are starting to make their presence known. Puzzled as to why Rhyan was replaced by Morgan.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 07:40 am
The smarts and athleticism shown by Cooper and Williams--and also Bullard in the slot--are a welcome change for this defense.
As for Morgan/Rhyan, I think they're doing what they've done in past years with platoons: trying to figure out who their guy is. Last year, they pretty quickly phased Nijman out for Walker, and when they got to the playoffs it was Runyan getting the better of the snaps at RG over Rhyan. Rhyan only had to play a handful of snaps at LG when Myers got hurt, but it shows you who their game-day backup C is, and probably who their swing OT is, too.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:44 am
Who are you suggesting is their swing tackle?
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 09:08 am
Jenkins
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 10:26 am
Interesting Jump. It didn’t surprise me he moved to C. He has played there before this summer and in season and knows the system better than either too. It’s possible that, with a game to prepare they might consider Rhyan at C. However, I don’t follow the extrapolation that Jenkins would be the swing from that. It’s possible based upon the past, but I can see a number of reasons for not taking our best IOL out for a guy who may be a T in the end anyway to play G. Possible, but I don’t think implied by the move to C.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 11:09 am
I go with the fact that Dillard and Glover have been healthy scratches, which leaves Telfort as the last active OL. He doesn't play on the left side...maybe that means there's not a true swing tackle, and that Morgan becomes the LT and Telford is backing up RT.
According to Packers.com, they list Dillard as the #2 LT and Telfort as the #2 RT, but they also list Monk (who was active) as the #2 C...he didn't insert when Myers got hurt, which would've been the simplest change. What's more, Morgan is listed as the #2 LG, but they moved Rhyan to LG and put Morgan at RG when Jenkins moved to C. In general, methinks there's shenanigans in the published depth chart.
Overall, the question is: who is OL#6? And right now, it's Morgan/Rhyan based on whomever is on the field. I think they feel better about their IOL than OT. That leads me to think that--given they're willing to inactivate Glover and Dillard--Jenkins is that guy.
Minniman
October 16, 2024 at 01:16 pm
Dillard's a bit of a head scratcher, isn't he.
He's effectively being treated like Nijman was, a bit of a high upside prospect if he can sort out his technique - quite a bizarre position to be in for a former first rounder.
Right now, he's squarely in the "looks like Tarzan - plays like Jane" category (at least until he gets a chance to play meaningful snaps and redeem himself).
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 01:33 pm
Dillard really isn’t a viable option at RT. The summer and preseason confirmed that. Telfort isn’t an obvious candidate to play T in my view, but particularly LT. The team seems to accept that. That leaves Dillard, Jenkins or Morgan as the LT option, Telfort or Glover (if active) at RT most likely. Dobber may be right and it would be Jenkins first up at LT. If so that’s likely due to declining to practice Morgan there. Another of Stenavich’s odd traits.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 01:41 pm
Maybe Morgan would've gotten some meaningful practice time at LT if he hadn't been injured during most of training camp. Or maybe the coaches decided that just as Morgan, as a rookie, was unlikely to beat out Rasheed Walker for the starting LT job, he was also unlikely to beat out Elgton Jenkins for the backup LT job. So they've had him focus on RG--the position where he could have the most impact as a rookie by potentially being a significant upgrade over Sean Rhyan. I don't see anything odd about what they've done with Morgan.
LLCHESTY
October 16, 2024 at 11:31 am
Rhyan got banged up early against the Rams and had his worst game of the season. It's possible he's playing hurt and they want to limit his snaps or they could still be trying to decide who to start. I'd say move Jenkins to center and play both but then the backup situation isn't great.
I really dislike the double shifts when one guy goes down but it looks to be the case no matter who it is. Hopefully it doesn't take two or three games to figure out like it did under McCarthy.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 07:42 am
They went back to a rotation, which is what they were doing before Morgan got hurt. The coaches must think Morgan is the better long-term option, but we'll see if one of them wins the job or they continue the rotation all season.
JerseyAl
October 16, 2024 at 07:43 am
Because they think Morgan is the better player.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 08:40 am
If they do think Morgan is better shouldn't they start him?
It seems Steno and Matt enjoy platooning the team's most important unit that needs to play with cohesiveness and synergy.
Is the platooning due to coaching indecisiveness or seeing real value in the tactic to increase competitive performance for both players?
If they see value, why is Monk not being platooned with Myers?
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:46 am
All good questions. I'd like to see Monk brought in to gain experience, at least when games are already basically won. Even if they don't think Monk is really better than Myers, developing the depth is an important aspect of being a championship team.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 09:15 am
I liked Monk as a draft choice but it was a pretty significant tell that the Packers were willing to rearrange most of their IOL to have Jenkins at center rather than just substitute Monk for Myers. Monk may just not be ready yet.
Monk is very athletic. Give him a year in a professional weight room and he might be more than ready to replace Myers. Not an unusual development path for a 5th rounder.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 11:16 am
Bingo.
I wish I'd read this before I posted my ugly logic puzzle above.
The fastest way to the QB is straight up the gut...at this point, if they put in Monk in garbage time, we should be seeing Willis at QB.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 12:57 pm
Monk came from Duke which is not a traditional football factory. I wonder if the Duke weight room is as aggressive or competitive as the weight room in Alabama or Michigan? Couple that with a center having to face NFL defensive tackles who are some of the largest and strongest men in a league full of large, strong men and I could see Monk lacking the functional strength to be effective in his rookie year. Hopefully he hits the weight room hard and is ready next year if the Packers don't resign Myers.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 09:05 am
I thought the platooning worked fine last year. The O-line play improved overall when they did that. Rhyan got experience which has been valuable for him this year, and Walker turned out to be a good LT. Your question about center assumes that Monk is about as good as Josh Myers, which may not be the case. Also, platooning at center is probably not a good idea due to the ball exchange with the QB.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 09:37 am
How many NFL routinely platoon their OL on a planned schedule? I don't know. I do know it has rarely been used by the Packers on the OL.
I don't believe Rhyan elevated the RG play in a platoon with Runyan vs Runyan handling the job on his own. Rhyan played better last year and decent so far this season...but apparently not well enough to earn the job in camp or during Morgan's injury.
Last year Nijman played as well as Walker early in the platoon but after a few games Walker was the better T. Still they platooned. (I liked Nijman...great FA success story. But note Yosh is back at swing tackle this year for the mighty Panthers.)
I see value in platooning some positions, but not the OL.
JerseyAl
October 16, 2024 at 10:12 am
Morgan is just back from an injury. It makes sense why they would want to work him in slow and then have same-game tape to compare Rhyan and Morgan going forward. Eventually, I think Morgan will win the job and the Packers would want that from their Round 1 pick.
greengold
October 16, 2024 at 10:57 am
Common sense just entered the chat. Agree, Al.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 10:39 am
Myers is their C. He’s therefore untouchable when healthy under this regime. We don’t have a RG. We seem to struggle with picking one and just letting him play, so if there’s no preferred starter we just oscillate. Most teams think and have long thought that unwise. Stenovich is in a minority that seem to think it’s a viable long term ploy. Perhaps he’s hoping one just breaks out clearly, but equally the majority opinion may just be right and his wrong.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 07:43 am
Don't think it was replaced so much as platooned. Rhyan (40) and Morgan (38) had pretty similar snap counts. I think we are back to the season starting program of them sharing the RG position.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 09:44 am
It seems so. "We will play the best 5" on the OL per Matt and Steno is now "we will platoon the best 6 or 7".
Maybe the Packers OL platooning is a new trend other NFL teams will begin to utilize.
Packers0808
October 16, 2024 at 12:42 pm
Personally I think platooning where you have the capable people to do so with is smart in giving guys breathers and hopefully keep them a bit fresher through out the game.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 07:35 am
Pretty much a "meh" on Rodgers at this point. He's not a Packer.
Joe Douglas did a Ryan Pace--saving my job--move, and admittedly got Adams at a reasonable price. ARod's a diminishing talent who will be pass-funneling to a diminished talent (Adams). Are they both still better than the average guy? Yes. But ARod is more dink and dunk than he was in GB, has already shown a propensity to throw to his guy (Lazard), and I think taking plays away from Garrett Wilson--the superior athlete to Adams--will end up leaving plays on the field. They have a better defense in NY than ARod had at any point under LaF in GB, but I don't see them being a contender in the AFC.
T7Steve
October 16, 2024 at 07:42 am
They may have a better D, but I think he's starting to appreciate the O-lines he was behind in Green Bay. A bad O-line can make a running game, and anyone look pedestrian, especially a non-mobile QB.
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 16, 2024 at 02:37 pm
I'm pretty sure Rodgers more than appreciates the O-lines he was behind in GB; he spoke of it often. All he needed was one series last year to really drive that home.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 07:56 am
I wonder how Las Vegas fans feel about their ownership. LV paid two first rounders to get Adams from Green Bay and two years later will receive one 2nd/3rd rounder for moving him to the Jets. Ouch!
The Jets now have one of the least mobile QBs in the league behind a very average O-line with an offensive philosophy mired in the last decade. Adams isn't going to change that situation. I think this is more likely to spiral downward than climb upward.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:49 am
I feel for Davante Adams. Great player, lousy career moves.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 09:06 am
I always liked Adams as a player and as a person, but "lousy career moves" is spot on. I thought he might be a HOF candidate but after the last two years that notion may be dying. Self inflicted damage.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 09:39 am
In 2022, he had 100 catches for 1,516 yards and 14 TDs. Last year, he had 103 catches for 1,144 yards and 8 TDs. Those numbers do more to strengthen his HOF case than detract from it.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 01:04 pm
Fair points. Part of my concern is Adams seemed to disappear from the national media when he was in LV and recognition is part of the HOF process. Maybe NY fixes that.
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 16, 2024 at 02:49 pm
I'm not sure Adams got more coverage via national media when he was in Green Bay. We saw plenty of coverage as Packer fans. But once Carr was dumped by LV, there wasn't much to write about the Raiders offense and the string of JAG QBs he's played with.
Guam
October 16, 2024 at 04:25 pm
Not sure I agree about Green Bay. Rodgers was often in the national media and Adams got quite a bit of attention by association. When LV was playing musical chairs with mediocre QBs, that whole team kind of disappeared nationally.
greengold
October 16, 2024 at 09:51 am
1 bazillion % with you on the "meh," dobs.
Your comments on Jets just made me think of this... Oddly enough, been thinking GB will make a trade or two before the upcoming deadline for a while now. Could easily see the NYJ again being a trade partner, as the teams have developed a relationship there. Does Elgton find his way to NYJ? He'd make one hella trade piece, and fits the "AR friends" quotient.
"Maybe" and "meh," both apply on this one.
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 16, 2024 at 02:52 pm
There. has to be a reason to trade somebody. They need Jenkins; GB is not a sinking ship like the Raiders, dumping a high paid player who wants out. GB wants to go deep into the post season, so why would they consider trading an important o-line player? Along with nailling down LG, he's a backup C and backup T if needed.
HarryHodag
October 16, 2024 at 07:37 am
The tendency among fans is to get all excited when the Packers win and to get overly snarly when the Packers lose. It's a long season but the Packers will face a real test this weekend. Houston is no joke. They can match the Packers offense and their defense is really good. I suspect the Narveson move was made because the game could go down to the kicker and Nervous Narveson was not the answer. I hold onto the idea that a competent kicker would certainly won the Vikings game and possibly the Philly game. That would make the Packers 6-0 or 5-1 this year.
I never forget the Packers are the youngest in the NFL. The achievements made have been with players who might be sitting in regular seasons but the talent level is so high they simply can't sit.
I'm glad to see the team focus. While I initially thought Doubs was pulling a wide receiver fit (think S. Diggs or D. Adams) I now see he has mental health concerns. It was outstanding to see the team rally with him when he caught his touchdown passes.
Win or lose I like this team. They remind me a bit of the Brewers, a young team of over-achievers led by a competent coaching staff.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 07:41 am
"The tendency among fans is to get all excited when the Packers win and to get overly snarly when the Packers lose."
If you watch, especially in social media, those people tend to be different populations and less individuals blowing in the wind. Each group feels empowered based on whether the Packers prop up their point of view.
egbertsouse
October 16, 2024 at 08:42 am
There is also a tendency for people on social media to have extreme opinions; either the Packers are winning the Super Bowl or they totally suck. Or LaFleur is the COTY or he’s not fit to coach my kid’s Pony League team. Or Jordan Love is the second coming of Joe Montana or he’s worse than Ryan Leaf. I tend to fall in the middle on these issues, which doesn’t work in a medium that is built for hot takes.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:56 am
🚨🚨🚨 Hot takes 🚨🚨🚨
I'm glad to be among people who notice, and I've never used that emoji before. I never will again, Lord willing and the creek don't rise ...
Romeo is "steady as she goes," which I think should blend well with JL10. 9 11 and 87 might emerge as our best? A 1 2 3 punch, double headed monster in the backfield with Lloyd ready to go at any time, #85 continuing to develop with #88 in the wings, and that still leaves 3 excellent WRs unnamed?
Might win a few games like that ...
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 10:07 am
"They remind me a bit of the Brewers..."
Noooo...that would mean losing in the Wild Card Round of the Playoffs!
Just kidding (I hope), I know what you mean. There are similarities between the two teams. Great young talent.
Where they remain dissimilar is the number World Championship Trophies on display. (I am still hurting from game 3...back to back homers with Airbender coming to the mound!)
WestCoastPackerBacker
October 16, 2024 at 02:57 pm
Thanks for the comments on Doubs. So many "fans" wanted him traded or cut or think he's not a true Packer. All the interviews I've seen indicate he is a team-first guy and one of the most hard-working players in terms of focusing on his craft and getting better. When Doubs came back, Watson's comments about 2 days of missed practices not taking away from 3 years of hard work, he also mentioned mental health. So that made me think this was a mental health issue not primarily or maybe not at all related to what Bill Huber wrote about Doub's supposed unhappiness with his use in the offense. That reason made zero sense.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:24 am
Great article, Al!
Or should I say that the greatness is due to the team, and your job is much easier when they play well?
WHAT A GREAT WIN!
Keeping it up against Houston will be a little harder, but the last few games have been a natural onramp for it. I don't believe we've caught even a glimpse of the ceiling of several key players, including #10 & 85. Hopefully that also applies to our trio of rookie defenders?
Coaching turns that into the team ceiling also being a long way off, with continual improvement being the standard. "defensive adjustments are being made on-the-fly in-game and TD-resulting offensive plays are being drawn up on the sideline." This is a GREAT indicator that just maybe the coaches can achieve this, and have the whole team performing ABOVE their talent level? While a lofty goal, some coaches actually do this so it IS possible. If this happens in Green Bay I will entertain talk of MLF being coach of the year; this is the sort of thing I think that should be based on.
Meanwhile, 4-2 is a LOT better than 2-5 like last year.
GPG!!
TXCHEESE
October 16, 2024 at 08:43 am
As far as the McManus allegations go, I think there is an NFL rule of no alcohol on team flights, so the drunken kicker story kind of seems unlikely. I'm in the innocent until proven guilty group. If it's true, shame on him, and the NFL, and GB, but we all know there are gold diggers out there, that decide they regret their own actions, and go find them a high profile lawyer, that won't charge them a nickel until he gets a settlement.
I'm just glad they're moving on from Narveson. You could tell from his face on Sunday, he has very little confidence right now.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 16, 2024 at 08:58 am
Is there news of Narvy being cut?
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 11:19 am
Yes, he was released, and the pundits don't anticipate him being re-signed to the PS.
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 11:02 am
One of the allegations (aimed at the team) involves the alleged knowing flouting of that rule by the team by permitting the behavior complained of.
stockholder
October 16, 2024 at 08:52 am
I know exactly why the Jets got Adams.
Because they want to win.
It's just that simple.
Nightmare ? Sure if they can play every game.
And the picks we went through, to get
where they are, is just another- Why?
Sorry- but I still don't like Love lofting the ball!
I get the WR adjustments.
I hope you'll understand when he gets picked.
Salts or Airplane glue?
Ok- either way I would trade Gary.
I prefer speed and angels.
I'm surprised Bahk isn't on the Jets O-line.
He surely is releasing the ball quicker now.
So another FG kicker is being brought in.
Shouldn't this really have been Gutes
best Free- Agent signing?
So much for believing in a scoring machine
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 09:12 am
"I know exactly why the Jets got Adams.
Because they want to win."
There are several WR they could've had.
Your explanation is overly simplistic.
"Sorry- but I still don't like Love lofting the ball!"
We agree on this. He can deliver the ball downfield with authority when he wants to. These lofted balls will eventually start to even out.
jannesbjornson
October 16, 2024 at 12:36 pm
Just give Enagbare more reps and bring on Mosby. Who would trade for this guy? His Film is known. He's not a commodity. Never an ALL PRO, he made the pro bowl as an Alternate. The Speed rush guy is staring them in the face every Sunday. Cooper has to be the starter. Get Hopper involved on the inside gap plugs. When Wyatt returns the Inside game will improve and keep Karl at DE. The trade candidate is Q. Walker.
Hafley will make his call on starters, if they want to WIN. If not, he will get offers from someone else. Adams does not move the needle for the Jets. The Guru may direct predictable passes his way, but Garrett Wilson will only get pissed off with a lack of attention. Pass rush from either blindside and Rodgers will take the fall. Doesn't have escapability any longer. Eleven Games to unravel another story.
stockholder
October 16, 2024 at 01:57 pm
Adams will move the needle for the jets.
I guarantee it.
Rodgers can still throw that ball.
He does well with his friends.
They only need to stay healthy.
Remember James Jones.?
Don't play into Gute's revolving door.
I'm for Keeping Walker and starting Karl @ DE.
Cooper should start next to Walker now.
He's earned Campbells spot.
But keep Walker Stationary. Don't move him.
Bitternotsour
October 16, 2024 at 09:08 am
Just for the record Al, I'm bitter. I've got this one covered.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 09:11 am
Stroud is the best QB the Packers have faced...and also the best dual threat. No doubt the Texans will be game planning how to escape Hafley's Pocket Prison. Hafley's men did a good job locking up Hurts, Richardson, and Murray and generated plenty of game film.
Expect Hafley to throw a few curves to Texans OC and Green Bay native Bobby Slowik (yes, his Dad is that former Packers ST guy!). Time for the front 6 or 7 to break out.
I am expecting a lot of nickel with the 3 Samurai Safeties taking turns harassing Stroud.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 09:15 am
Stroud has good weapons and is a good leader. I'll disagree in that he scrambles when pressured, but they don't really do designed runs for him. I think they'll try to go after him, but they need to respect Mixon. Houston's OL is good.
Still, they've really only had one "blow-up" game, and that was against NE last week.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 10:58 am
You are right...Stroud relies on his arm, and he should.
I was thinking he was more a dual threat...he isn't. He is more of a pocket passer like Love is. He can make yards on the run but it is a last resort, as you state.
The Bengals traded Mixon's successful 7 year NFL career to Houston for a 7th rounder. It has worked out.
Going to be a fun game in the Lambeau Shrine if you enjoy Offense.
Through 6 games:
Total O...Packers 4th vs Texans 6th.
Run O...Packers 2nd vs Texans 14th
Pass O...Packers 10th vs Texans 5th
For the first time I don't have a single North Division game in Lambeau this year on my Green Season ticket package. But I am going to enjoy this battle!
Two rising NFL young guns!
Coldworld
October 16, 2024 at 11:11 am
As you concede, he is not been a dual threat QB, but perchance in the back of your mind is that he can run if he decides to? He has a sub 4.5 50 time. Love’s is 4.7 by comparison, as were those of Favre and Rodgers.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 11:41 am
Yeah, I thought he ran more.
And on further review, he did not rely on his speed at Ohio State, either.
The Pack's Pressure Defense should be on the menu vs the Pocket Prison.
Both Love and Stroud are about the same size.
dobber
October 16, 2024 at 11:21 am
This should be a fun one. I think this one plays in the 30s.
I'll be a homer and go:
Packers 34, Texans 31
Leatherhead
October 17, 2024 at 07:03 am
Stafford has won a Super Bowl. Hurts has gone to a Super Bowl. I think Stroud is a good, young QB, but I'm not sure he's the best QB we've faced. In quite a few passer rankings, he's somewhere between 6--12....good, above average, but not elite.
greengold
October 16, 2024 at 09:18 am
Thanks, Al. Always appreciate your twisted takes and polluted mindset. Humpdays are better for it.
Glad to hear we have a new kicker... I'll take those under 50s with 91% accuracy all freaking day after the last 3 seasons of my wife's Chardonnay throws at the TV. Surprised the MF still turns on. lolz.
Kudos on pointing out our running QB containment. Packers D has been improving in many run-stop metrics, which is great to see. I freaking love what some key players have brought to our table there, especially Karl Brooks, Colby Wooden, Kingsley Enagbare and Edgerrin Cooper. Also, having quality at the S positions doesn't suck. I'm loving what we are seeing there.
The trade deadline draws near, and we've got plenty of time left to swing deals, but, my money is on BG surprising us with one or two good ones at any number of positions calling out to be shored up: DE, LB, CB, NT and/or OL. I'm hoping Gutekunst makes historically phenomenal adds to take this team's Super Bowl winning contention over the top.
The time is now.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 09:48 am
Hard to see them making any trades. Gutekunst does not like to trade away draft picks, and player-for-player trades are rare these days. If they did trade for a player, maybe a speed-rushing DE would be nice. All we have is these big lumbering types. Beyond that, nothing really jumps out as a need.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 11:16 am
"All we have is these big lumbering types."
Hercules is just outside your door. He would like a word. :-)
RCPackerFan
October 16, 2024 at 09:28 am
"Rodgers to Adams is about to become a thing again. After another act of Jets desperation, Davante Adams is a Jet."
I haven't watched a lot of the Jets games but from what I have seen, is a lot of dropped passes. Also a lot of missed timing on plays. They really only have Wilson as a true threat. Lazard has a lot of drops. Williams never got the timing down right. It would be neat to see Adams and Rodgers bring back some of that magic.
"I watched the game in SC with a few Packer fan friends, to whom I had predicted that this was the game that the Packers offense would break out." What's a defensive coordinator to do?"
This offense is loaded. I know we debate who the number 1 WR is all the time. First I will say it doesn't matter. Not when the group is as loaded as it is. I will say this though. Watson changes the offense with his deep speed. It scares teams and he has a presence about him on the field. Add to that Reed is a chess piece nightmare.
"Can someone explain to me why potential free plays keep getting shut down by the referees when there is no threat to the quarterback?"
I really don't get it. Unless there is a player in the QB's face, they shouldn't shut it down.
"Suffice to say, the Packers are now experts at containing running quarterbacks."
So far I will say that the Hafley led defense has been very good at stopping the mobile QB's. How many years have mobile QB's absolutely wrecked our defenses. A lot. So this is refreshing.
"Packers fans, we are living in a world where defensive adjustments are being made on-the-fly in-game and TD-resulting offensive plays are being drawn up on the sideline. I'm just a little bit giddy about this."
I am really liking Hafley's defense so far.
"I feel sorry for the Narveson kid, and will miss his 100% extra point stats, but this just couldn't go on any longer. "
I like Narveson. I wish they would keep him on the PS. They like to develop guys. Well develop Narveson.
NFLfan
October 16, 2024 at 10:30 am
D-line?
splitpea1
October 16, 2024 at 11:02 am
Love the paragraph about the Packers finally learning to contain running QBs. It's been a problem for at least a decade, and it allows lesser teams (like the Giants last year) to win when they have no business doing so. This is a big step forward in terms of intelligent play and overall growth for our defense.
Duhawk_47
October 16, 2024 at 11:19 am
Al, as someone who enjoyed smelling salts during my football and weightlifting career, I've noticed Gary using them on the sideline and before games for at least a couple of years now. If I had to bet, I'd say one if not both of the Strength & Conditioning staff or Athletic trainers have the supply on them at all times on the sideline.
NFLfan
October 16, 2024 at 11:48 am
@DH, my guess is he has exercise-induced asthma. If that is true, there are many types of oral medications that will stabilize it along with inhalers.
He has a bit of an over-dramatic personality as well, IMO.
JerseyAl
October 16, 2024 at 07:12 pm
I've seen it on the sidelines, but never on the field right before a play. Interesting.
LambeauPlain
October 16, 2024 at 12:06 pm
Packers vs Texans stat matchups:
#4 O vs #3 D.
Best matchup is when the Pack has the ball and is attacking the Texans on the ground with their #2 rushing offense vs Texans #13 run defense.
Run to open up the pass.
#18 D vs #6 O.
Best matchup for the Pack is stopping the run with their #8 rushing defense (yes, they are 8th so far!) vs the Texans #14 rush O.
But stopping the run to force the pass has the Packers #25 pass D (surprised me a bit) to stop Houston's Air Force is #5. I think the Pack Attack pressure defense will be unleashed on Sunday.
I like the Pack at home with a full arsenal of weapons and a Defense that Hafley has on the rise.
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 04:20 pm
This game is a classic example of what I talked about at length last year. Would we rather see Caleb Williams throw if 40 times for 300 yards, or would we rather see Mixon run it 40 times for 220 yards?
If I'm the DC preparing for the Texans, I'd be more concerned about limiting Stroud, who is averaging 7.8yards/attempt, than I'd be about limiting Mixon, who is getting 5.5 yards/attempt.
Houston also has 10 TDs passing, and only 5 rushing.
A weakness the Packers could attack is that Houston doesn't do a real good job of protecting Stroud, which we should be able leverage into a turnover or two. That would probably tilt the field enough for a win.
Minniman
October 16, 2024 at 12:41 pm
I've got these visions of Gute being McManus' shadow this whole season - I wouldn't be surprised if he even gets a locker next to him............ it doesn't even need to be said that he'll be locked in next to him when the team travels!
"Silent" Gute and "Jay" McManus!!
Now on to the Long Snapper - those errant snaps need to stop - pronto.
GregC
October 16, 2024 at 01:02 pm
The new kicker, Brandon McManus, has been signed. He will wear #17--the number of Anders Carlson, Davante Adams, and Jerry Tagge. That number is kind of a mixed bag, to say the least.
LeotisHarris
October 17, 2024 at 08:11 am
Yep, even if you roll in David Whitehurst and Cecil Isbell the bag stays mixed.
Bitternotsour
October 17, 2024 at 09:07 am
they all seemed like nice fellas.
LeotisHarris
October 17, 2024 at 10:27 am
For sure, not complicated at all
Leatherhead
October 16, 2024 at 04:12 pm
This is a midseason game between two teams that went to the playoffs last year and look like they're headed there again. I expect a pretty good game. If our Oline can get the job done, we should win this game. It's not the end of the world if we don't, but we can't keep losing games at home and still make the playoffs. This is a big game for us.
Bitternotsour
October 16, 2024 at 04:21 pm
This is the Super Bowl matchup. I expect to see Houston again in week 20
Leatherhead
October 17, 2024 at 07:04 am
I think it'll be Ravens-Packers.