Fully Agree with you. It is the overall plan more than situational plays. In fact, I liked some of his aggressive plays when everyone dinged him...mostly cuz the play didn't work...but play itself was bold.
Game plan however rests on MLF and staff...and that is what MLF seems be outsmarted by most opponent coaching regimes. The packers....just need to demand precise execution by relentless practicing fundamentals if that team generates more penalties and miscues than opponent until it is executed. We are late in the season....so no excuse about "young team". The sloppy execution across all three units from week to week reflects culture, not a lack of talent....so it is MLF not Gute that needs to "GET ON THE BUS, GUS" and don't need to be COY, ROY.

Good points Al. I took a break for awhile. I wasn't reading much on the Packers lately. This game was a head scratcher. You nailed it on the head about MLF not changing the game plan or doing it too late. I have said this before her is not good enough to be HC and OC at the same time.

This game is another example of showing that he cannot handle everything on his plate. Right now he is like the person at Thsnksgiving dinner that piles his plate with everything and then cannot finish it all. There are very few HCs that can handle both jobs effectively because the game is to complex.

I see the Packers finishing with 9 wins if there are no changes. Kraft going down will hurt a lot.

"They found weaknesses on tape and exploited them."

And while doing that created or used the road map for every other team that hasn't played us yet. The other ones, like the Eagles, have already used the map and put Xs all over it.

There's an easy fix for this problem. Even with or without Kraft it's the same. Create a scheme that calls and accounts for blocking up front. If the O-line problems aren't fixed, (for at least 3 years running) you may as well write off the season.

Defense and special teams are the least of the Packers' problems, and every other team has those. Fix the O-line, THEN worry about giving up 16 points in a game.

Great point about Gary: he's also a defensive end, not just a pass rusher. The end is supposed to set the corner. I thought Gary was going to have a breakout year with Parsons around. Wrong.

An old 'run the ball' guy like myself is speaking here in a near blasphemy way: I would like to see Love throw the ball 50 times and see what happens. The run game has largely been neutralized. Against the Eagles you can try to batter into that stout defense or you can throw it. This is the Brett Favre lesson: you might toss three interceptions but you also will throw four touchdowns and likely win.

The Eagles are still likely to win but at least the game would be watchable.

Remember how excited Packer fans were by MLF's innovative and exciting offenses in 2019 and 2020 after Mike McCarthy's offense grew stale at the end of his time as coach of the Packers? Well, here we are in 2025, and watching GB score 10 points in the loss to the Browns and 13 points against the Panthers on Sunday is giving off similar late McCarthy game plan/play calling vibes.

Sunday's loss to Carolina at home also eerily resembled the 2024 season ending loss at Lambeau to the lowly Bears who were on a long losing streak and playing out the string with an interim coach at the time. Carolina was coming off a 40-9 home loss, their QB is bad and was injured, and the Panthers were down multiple offensive lineman. Yet, they out-schemed, out-hustled, out-coached, out-hit, and ultimately out-performed the Packers at Lambeau.

In 3 of the last 6 games, the Packers have not been better than the Browns, Cowboys, and Panthers. Ouch.

After Policy refused to extend him and Gutey declared the franchise needed to show more urgency (and spent his 2026 and 2027 1st round picks to acquire Micah Parsons), if things do not drastically improve I predict MLF will not be coaching the Packers by 2027.

Particularly troublesome to me was Carolina’s defender going untouched right through the middle of GB’s O-line and the way the Panther O-line even with several backup players were gashing the Packer D on the ground.
Nauseating.
And just when things look bleak, watch them come out and destroy Philly on Monday night.
GPG

I don't know how you can gameplan an offense where your O-line gets stood up and pushed back or outright whiffs on their assignment. This offense can't be consistent until the trench problems are corrected.

As for the defense, the cat may be out of the bag. Interior D-line play is suspect and running teams will exploit this. We just don't have talent inside and it showed on Sunday.

I know people thought that Micah Parsons was the piece to put us over the top but I am afraid that there a still quite a few roster gaps and coaching issues on this team. Philly won't help

LeFleur needs a strong personality to offset his erratic eccentricities. Rogers was able to calm him down and redirect him when he got over excited. Love is laid back and willing to follow direction, which is OK when things are working. When things unravel and don't go to script he allows LeFleur to get off track and results in poor game script. I'd like to see Jordan take over and get the offense into plays and scripts that get to his strengths. Pass to set up the run, up tempo early in games, 1st down play action. I think getting early leads is the answer and all efforts need to be made to start games strong.

When Stenavich got a call for an HC interview last off-season, I was really hoping he'd move on if only to put new and different voices in the equation in both the OL and OC spots.

I still think it's more about execution than either play-calling or game-planning, although I do agree that they should go up-tempo more often. In this game, I can see why they didn't. With Carolina looking to control the clock, you run the risk of giving the ball back to them quickly if uptempo is unsuccessful. And the Packer offense was moving the ball. Josh Jacobs averaged 5.1 yards per carry, and they never had to punt. It was in the red zone that they crashed and burned. The only obvious play-calling problem there was LaFleur going for it on 4th and 8 with about 11 minutes left. He's been aggressive on 4th downs this year, and it's worked out better than I would've expected, but I thought that was just a terrible call.

I am limited in my commentary because I had to listen to the game on the radio. Near the end, Wayne asked Larry which team was winning at the line of scrimmage, and Larry did not hesitate to say it was the Panthers, on both sides of the ball. It was uncharacteristic for Rashan Gary to play so poorly against the run. That was the best part of his game last year. Maybe he got greedy with all of his sacks this year. I heard that Quay Walker had a bad day defending the run as well. I also heard that Evan Williams was mainly responsible for giving up the long run that got the Panthers into position for the game-winning field goal.

Meanwhile, the offensive line finally opened up some holes for Josh Jacobs, but it sounds like their pass protection was leaky all day long. The deep shots were not there, except for that one to Watson, and the Packers offense was not able to adapt to a grind-it-out style of play. Very disappointing, although I will say again that the 13.5 point spread was ridiculous. The Panthers are not that bad of a team. Apparently there are a lot of overconfident Packer fans out there who are not smart with their money.

Edit your article

So Jaire gets traded away by a desperate-to-win Ravens team...so that kind of confirms Gute was smart to let him go....though not getting anything in return meant his timing was off. But once its too late to recoup something...a good manager cuts his losses.

I agree with Al's point that if the Panther's defense was doing exactly what LaFleur expected them to do, how could he devise such a flawed game plan to attack it? He is supposed to be an offensive genius. Credit where credit is due - sometimes LaFleur has a masterful game plan and the Packer's offense looks unstoppable. However not every plan is going to survive contact with the opponent. Opposing DC's get paid too and some of them are defensive geniuses as well. Sometimes game plans don't work out, but really good coaches can make in-game adjustments and still win.

And that is my biggest beef with LaFleur - he has never demonstrated an ability to adjust on the fly and overcome a flawed initial game plan. Is it stubbornness or inability, I don't know, but this has been a theme for seven years now and it isn't getting better.

Coupling that inability to adjust game plans with a fairly consistent ability to make at least one bonehead decision in every game is costing the Packers wins. In the Caroline game LaFleur eschewed a near certain field goal (from the 13 yard line) to go for it on fourth and 8. How do you pass up three points in a tight, low scoring game? Whether it is clock management problems, challenge flag problems, situational bad decisions or something else, LaFleur always seems to have at least one bonehead moment per game.

Bottom line: Can the Packers win a championship with this guy? I am losing faith............

Things keep changing in the NFL.
So I'm not going to tell you we need to change coaches.

MLF has coached in a lot of different systems.
He knows them all.
But you hit the nail right on the head.
When you said ,He must use what works best for Love.

I get the run setting up the play action.
But my complaint is never using 6 OL
when he's trying to establish it.
The Buffalo Bills have.
And they gain the most yards in the NFL.
Screw the TEs that have trouble blocking.

Jordan Love's 35% under pressure must change.
If MLF can't get this OL blocking correctly.
Make the changes. Move Jenkins.
Being stubborn will only cost people jobs.
Or should I say more Loses.

Simply put, Carolina won the the LOS and won, Green Bay lost the LOS and lost.

There very little in the comments I disagree with. I would love to hear what the hell Love saw that nobody else watching did, that he thought the flutter ball into the wind against triple coverage had a snow balls chance to be completed. He needs to quit the hero ball. I understand 50/50 throws especially when Watson is in play, but that thing had less than 1% chance of success.

Peter Principle:
'The Peter principle observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to a level of respective incompetence. Employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent"
Getsy (twice-fired), MLF, Stenavich (over-promoted OL coach) are in over their heads-see above. The North and other NFL teams now have top-notch coaching staffs. Green Bay hasn't kept up with that level of smart, tactical coaching which includes game planning. MLF should have been looking for bright, offensive minds -he had all off-season. Instead, he chose comfort, familiarity and mediocrity.

Still not certain Policy has the spine to pull the trigger.

Said it before and I will say it again. MFL flat out sucks and I can't wait till Policy cans him.

Defense gave up 13 and 16 points in the 2 losses. Can't put it on the defense. It's offense and MLF decisions that lost these games.

I do want to make a note: Nothing personal against MLF, this is strictly football related.

Just can't shake injury prone 7 energy this year 😢. Majority of it can be avoided at the GM position (Gute👀) calling the personnel shots. Numbers don't lie...ask any executive officer. Most however, want to hold on to feelings / opinions.

<<Dragon5

September 19, 2025 at 02:39 pm

KRAFT✅ DOB: 11-03-2000 11+3+2= 16 1 + 6 = 7
REED✅ DOB: 04-28-2000 4+2+8+2 = 16 1 + 6 = 7
WICKS✅DOB: 06-16-2001 6+1+6+2 +1 = 16 1+ 6 = 7
VAN NESS✅DOB: 07-06-2001 7+6+2+1 = 16 1 + 6 = 7
WYATT ✅DOB: 03-31-1998 3+3+1+1+9+9+8 = 34 3 + 4 = 7
MCMANUS✅DOB: 07-25-1991 7+2+5+1+9+9+1 = 34 3 + 4 = 7

All 7 life paths👉7s most injury prone👈 Wicks & McManus also born on 7 days further increasing their odds of injury. Ditto for Wyatt as he's in a personal 7 year.>>

Kraft always played hard and his character and leadership is just as important as his talent. Jacobs has that selfless energy too.

"Personally, I don't disagree with some of the complaints, but I think the problem goes deeper than that. I think it's the game planning itself that could be at fault. "

I listened to so many complaints and some have merit. While some of the game planning/play calling isn't great at times it all comes down to execution of the play. You can have the best play designed against a specific call of the defense, but if the players don't execute their role the play gets blown up. And while watching the game sunday that is what I saw. The OL was BAD, which affected almost everything. How many plays were there a free rusher right up the middle in Loves face, way too many.

These are some examples of why execution is to be blamed vs playcalling/game planning...

-On the one RB screen Heath got blown up on the block.
-On the screen to Williams he ends up running right into the block which then tied him up and he eventually fumbled.
-Their 2nd drive they got to first and 10 at the 18. They run it for 4 yards. Its 2nd and 6 at the 14. False start. Next play Love is sacked so its 3rd and 18. Another false start to make it 3rd and 23 which Wilson drops.
-2nd drive of the 2nd half they are down 7-6. They missed a FG on the last drive. 4th play Love throws into triple coverage and is intercepted. While I have no problem taking shots, and it seemed like the wind held the ball back, the decision was bad. It was 1st down. Also he had Musgrave wide open in the flat.

Everything is to be blamed when they only score 13 points and lose to a team that they should have beat. But the players need to execute better. It starts with proper fundamentals. Listening to former players that is where it all starts.

This is all dancing around reality. Focusing on individual symptoms and missing the fact that none of this is new. The difference is that this week all of the weaknesses came together.

LaFleur loses tactically frequently. Particularly pre game but also often during it. He often puts out a team that seems less motivated or disciplined than their opponent or the league norm.

The offensive scheme itself is very limited by design. It’s not an expansive offensive concept, it’s very limited as a default with sporadic big plays bolted on. Moreover it’s predicated on the run but we show no sign of competent run blocking. So we found our offense on something we do badly and have done for years but retain the coaching that hadn’t changed that.

On top of that, we rely on that OL to allow time for Love to go deep at times. Yet we haven’t been able to deliver that either. We have not settled on who is our RG. So yet again our coaching or coaching competency is in direct conflict with the offensive design.

We had one good blocker at TE but use all the rest as blockers and when the result is insipid seem surprises. We have increasingly seen 3TE sets but only one TE targeted and the other two flailing as blockers. We don’t use our players in a way that fits them and the results are predictably desultory.

Teams have figured this out. Carolina did. The Browns did. If a team has a decent D and is astute, we fall apart and out O sets up the ideal in game scenario to aid that, They are looking for those little near by laterals. They are packing the short zone and leaving a deep shell. In fact they are doing what teams did in the last year of Rodgers.

LaFleur was unable to adapt to that then. He appears equally stumped now. We just rinse and repeat. The Panthers nailed much of this and we fell apart and were unable to adapt during the game or before it (based on LaFleur’s comments).

Overall (and I have not touched on STs or aspects of time management or the total lack of tempo or rhythm or the lack of classic slot play since this time last year). The reality is it’s a Coach who is tactically inept and is clinging to a scheme that fights what we are good at and has largely been decoded. On top of that we are indisciplined and seemingly erratically motivated.

None of these things are new. Like the offensive coaching these are recurring. The only differences are that Barry being gone removed a convenient smokescreen and lightning rod and the extent to which the scheme has been understood and unraveled. Unless we breakout of that, which clearly LaFleur can’t—so it means letting Love loose and hoping we get lucky—we are going nowhere.

LaFleur had never been what we were sold. He’s proved it over and over. It’s time to stop listing the symptoms and just accept that the root is actually clear of you put them together and remember the past. He had only just figured out the need to make Kraft a central focus. He can’t seem to figure out how to use Golden. The minutia could take up pages.

Don’t get lost in that. The reality is, big picture, LaFleur is not elevating this team, he’s retarding it personally and through his coaches on offense (at least). He is turning out a roster that is less than it should be and that’s been the hallmark of his tenure where it was Love or Rodgers at QB.

LaFleur is the problem. Everything flows from that and back to it. Hopefully Policy has seen it and already started the search process. If we did not extend last year, it seems very unlikely that the showing this year will result in one. We will need to move fast so the new HC can replace the offensive staff.

If LaFleur is back we will perennially be repeating these circles of mediocrity, as we have been for several years. The sample is big enough that denying it is increasingly daft. Time has a way of stripping away illusions. It’s time to see, not let Murphy’s narrative of offensive genius so eagerly leapt upon by Packer media, continue to blind.

Week after week we are looking at the proof that Aaron Rodgers and his confident arrogance to change plays is what made LaFleur and his 13-3 seasons, and when given a chance, Love has already bailed him out at times. We have a coach that is willing to play for the tie!
Unfortunately, our GM is content with the same shit, and yesterday was another example of his unwillingness to swing for the fences! Gutey and his staff think going 10-7 with a first round play-off loss making a 10-8 season is a win!
Every cell in my body is hoping that Ed Policy has higher aspirations!

Some echoing thoughts.
First, Stenavich should be the OL coach, where he excels, and not the OC, where he is a liability.
Your mention of Gary pulling himself out of the game repeatedly (from yesterday's article) screams either lack of conditioning, or a physical ailment that has not been revealed. There is also a third possibility. That a big contract has led him to become more complacent.
The lack of adjustments by the team has become an ongoing problem. This reminds me of a situation during WWI, when the French had a huge offensive planned against the Germans. Unfortunately, the plans were leaked to the Germans. The French generals decided their plan was so good, even though the other side knew what was coming, it would still succeed. The result was the slaughter of nearly 100,000 men.
LaFleur seems to have the same mindset. That what the Packers are going to do offensively is so perfect, the other side will be unable to stop the attack. And if it doesn't work? Keep doing it, because it has to work- on paper.
Finally, the Packers seem to have gone "all in" on winning the SB this year. And although the team that gets hot at the right time usually wins it all, so there is still time. But after seven seasons, the same problems seem to be holding the team back. Lack of discipline leading to crucial penalties. ST's that still suck. And, most importantly, the "McCarthy effect", where the head coach becomes stubborn, and refuses to change their game plan as the game evolves. But if the team doesn't make it to the SB this year, how long before Gutekunst starts getting less patient?

LaFleur, for all his alleged warts, has a winning percentage of .671. That's 13th all time, and 3rd among active coaches.

Downvoting facts. I love the ignorance.

If Policy retains MLF, the result will be continued inconsistency, lurching from highs to lows, etc. for the length of his contract (through 2029)

The North and NFL have passed both MLF and Gute, IMO. They looked good when the North was soft and Rodgers was QB. (I know Rodgers declined later on)

In a perfect world, Policy would locate a competent GM who would hire his own staff. The second best option would be to fire MLF, put the energy into finding a HC with a proven record and an ability to motivate and discipline- a Vrable type.

It all started with the sledding hill and then underground parking. Which led to the grooming of eyebrows and mustache. Which led to losing games at Lambeau Field where the opponent seemed to look forward to playing there (here). Which led me to stop talking to my Pet Rock (or listening to it) and burning my Farrah Fawcett poster.

This inturn led to ulcers and anxiety/depression. Which had me pining for the days of players seemingly at least to give all out effort.

If it wasn't for the Cheerleaders that don the Hardware Hank gloves and let their hair be on their legs come November...I would consider selling my stock for the original whizzenator.

Packer games whereby the Pack are favored by 10+ points become so boring of an affair. Now I know how my prom and homecoming dates must have felt.

LaFleur, get your piss hot or get the hell out of town. :)

Love and stuff,
Pantz

LaFleur has to be a wealthy man-his salary has been 5-6 M for 5-6 years. He will land on his feet, hopefully somewhere else. He could work as a body double for Ryan Reynolds. (Needed some levity)

"Confessions of a Polluted Mindset"

I was the one that stole Bum Phillips hat after the game.

PB

"Now is the winter of our discontent" ? (Richard III).

A period of want and unhappiness - followed by a glorious summer of peace and victory? I beseech it is so. However we may need a new Leader - ideally named Edward - to make it happen.

Another fine article by Jersey "You Can Call Me" Al.

"still more than half the season to go".
I'm not sure I can take that much more of this................

Up tempo is definitely worth doing. It was right before the half that they went up tempo and from that point forward Love completed 21(22) passes in a row. Al, I too believe there is a connection. Go up tempo from the start.

Another thought on special teams and how they hurt this team in so many ways. With the new kick off rules and super balls that masquerade as kicking balls the Packers are behind the 8 ball. I can't find exact stats but it seems like the Pack gives up more yardage on kickoffs/punts than they gain, winding up with worse field position typically. Thus if they are tied or ahead by less than 3 late in the game it seems they are very likely to lose as on a kickoff the other team is likely to only need 25 or so yards to get to a place where they can kick a 55+ yard field goal. The Pack, on the other hand with their injured kicker, would need 10 or 15 more yards from the same position to get to a likely field goal. So all the more reason to go up tempo and put the other team away because the Pack is less likely to win on a walk off kick.

Just food for thought Al and maybe the answer to your questions about offensive game plan.
I recently heard an ex-player TV analyst state, "you tend to play the way you practice.
To paraphrase he said when his team practiced well, it always translated to the next game. Vice versa, if the practices were not so great, neither was their game day performance. Things ran over!

I still in my pea brain think Love is the key. I dont think he can handle a complicated offensive scheme I see run by many teams with multiple offensive weapons. The Vikes and Chiefs are goo examples.

I have this idea that in practice he tosses a lot of picks into the end zone. Why. Because like you said Al a plan is in place and I see over and over two runs and a screen inside the 20. No passing into the end zone. Has to be a reason for that. If the reason is Love has shown in practice he cant read a defense and his down field passing is lacking, the plays are therefore designed to keep in under wraps. Screens, short pass over the middle, passes to the sidelines and lots of runs.
Al there is something going on in LeFluers playbook that doesnt make sense and with his experience it should make sense so its something else no one would guess. This is my guess.

Well, if we do punt on MLF, my early replacement coach crush is Anthony Campanile. The verbal sparring between him and Dan Campbell alone would be worth it. And more than any other coach out there, he give a similar vibe to Campbell. If the old adage that a team takes on the personality of its coach is true, how cool would it be to have him as the coach?