Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Bring Out Your Dead (Cap)

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Recognizing the dead: Monday may have been the day we honor deceased Presidents, but in the NFL, it was "Dead Cap Day." Seven Packers saw their contracts void on Monday, resulting in over $16M of dead money officially hitting the 2023 cap. The players were Amos(7.9M), Lowry(3M), Reed (1.4M), Cobb(1.4M), Lewis(1M), Crosby(1M) and Tonyan(500K). The Packers did not take the opportunity to try to re-sign any of the players, which might be yet another clue (although a minor one) as to their plans for 2023.

Aaron Jones: Kudos to Aaron Jones for agreeing to take a $5M salary cut, (with 8.5M guaranteed as a signing bonus) and in the process, helping the Packers reduce their salary cap by $12M this year. But let's be honest, he could have refused and faced being cut. Does anyone think another NFL team would be willing to give a 29-year old running back $15M? By looking for a deal on the open market, Jones would have likely taken a bigger pay cut. Jones took the better option for himself as well as the Packers. That's not to say he doesn't love being in Green Bay - he certainly does and continually connects with fans. In fact, it was just announced he will be one of the Packers players on this Spring's "Packers Tailgate Tour." Yes, Aaron Jones truly "Carries the G."

Who's next? In his last press conference, Brian Gutekunst stated that they'll probably look to restructure "everybody" this offseason. Surely that was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but the reality may not be far off, as there will certainly be other moves. My pick for the next move would be another restructure for Kenny Clark, his second in two years. Clark's cap hit is just short of $24M in 2023, so it's ripe for the picking.

From Pete Dougherty (and Ken Ingalls):

If Rodgers returns to the Packers, he’ll count $31.6 million on their cap; if he’s traded, he’ll count $40.3 million. So he counts almost $9 million more on their cap if they trade him than if they keep him.

Why is that? Because...  

When players are cut or traded, any past bonuses prorated to future caps accelerate to the current season.

 

Interesting Stuff - This means nothing of course, but I do find it interesting (and funny) who the oddsmakers think have a worse chance of winning the 2023 NFL MVP than Jordan Love:

Jordan Love: +4000
Russell Wilson: +4000
Matthew Stafford: +5000
Kirk Cousins: +5000
Derek Carr: +5000
Daniel Jones: +5000

More Jordan Love: From Ty Dunne, who admittedly, has been on Rodgers' case for quite some time now, but this tweet (the quote is from Love's personal QB coach) describes an angle I had not though of with regards to Jordan Love. It also falls perfectly into my opinion that if Love becomes the Packers' quarterback in 2023, we would finally see LaFleur's true offense, without any compromises made for a HOF quarterback. That might be a good thing or that might be a bad thing, but at least we'll know who gets the blame or credit.

 

Brian Branch - This could and likely will change, but at the moment, my draft crush is Alabama Safety Brian Branch. He would immediately fill what I consider the Packers' main need, and do it in a way that we haven't seen around Green Bay for awhile now - an aggressive Safety that's a tackling demon. Yeah, give me some of that...

 

 

 

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

__________________________

NFL Categories: 
14 points
 

Comments (214)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:30 am

"If the Packers trade him this year, there will be a $ 40.3 million hit in dead money, $ 9 million more than his projected cap hit for the Packers if he plays. But things get much worse in the future if Green Bay decides to give their veteran quarterback one or two more seasons. The dead money in 2024 would be $68.21 million, and $76.8 million in 2025."

Dead Money... Wendell Ferreira wrote what's above in his article yesterday which I thought was a huge point moving forward regarding Rodgers. It's NOT just about 2023 but also 2024 and beyond. The "Voided Contracts" are all contracts we probably expected. Some may be back but IF Rodgers was to stay for 2023 he's probably going to be without buddies Cobb, Crosby, and Big Bob for sure. Mercedes Lewis LOVES LaFleur so he may be back no matter what. IMO moving on from all of these guys isn't the worst thing. Mason Crosby and Cobb have been two of my favorite players for the last 10 plus years. But it's just time to TRIM THE FAT! Do it now, get it done and over with and make 2024 more manageable for a run WITH Jordan Love.

The additional $9 million is fine. What's coming in 2024 and/or 2025 IS NOT.

Brian Branch...Oh hell yeah! Let's get some of that dude please.

13 points
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3
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:28 am

I read an article that said that Branch wouldn't fit well in GB's Quarters heavy system with what role he played in Bama. If we draft Branch, it has to be with the intent of moving on from Barry (fine with me).

Totally agree that we have to be thinking about 2024. In fact, I think it should be our primary focus this year - setting us up from 2024 success.

1 points
4
3
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:43 am

I think that is a fair concern. As I’ve noted before, I’m not sure how many players in the league, let alone draft, can do what Barry was asking of his safeties last year. Maybe two Charles Woodsons or maybe there is a fundamental conceptual problem with the design.

7 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:37 am

At least half the teams in the league want interchangeable safeties these days. Add in the teams playing a S at the nickel spot. I don't think it's that big of an ask, the problem was neither starter is all that good at playing deep. They've had years to learn this and do something about it and didn't. A one dimension S that can come in and play deep on passing downs is about the cheapest guy in the secondary, via a vet add or the draft, and they stood pat.

If you look at the back stories of the safeties in recent drafts a lot of the time they played deep their 1st year or two in college and then moved to nickel or the box as they got stronger. With so many three safety looks in college these days there's quite a few versatile guys every year lately. Will they be successful in the NFL? Who knows but there's rovers available.

Jordan Battle, Christopher Smith and Jammie Robinson are three guys that moved around quite a bit. Battle had 129 snaps in the slot, 196 in the box and 574 snaps deep this year. He had well over 1000 snaps deep while at Alabama. Smith had 132 snaps in the slot, 130 in the box and 547 deep in 2022. He also had over 1000 snaps deep while at Georgia. Robinson had 167 slot snaps, 252 in the box and 352 deep this year. He had over 600 snaps deep while at FSU but also had over 900 snaps as the slot defender. Versatility isn't hard to find, it's just if all the aspects of a player's game translate to the NFL.

https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board

8 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:56 am

It’s my impression that there are degrees of interchangeability. It’s not that in itself—Pettine also subscribed to interchangeability, but the degree to which Barry requires it and the extent of the duties. Barry seems to treat safeties as capable of everything from linebacker to the CB. That’s just not a common athletic, let alone ability, combination (hence the Woodson comment) and thus not likely to make many players look good or the D effective.

5 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:11 am

I think it was more that Savage had periods where he was so bad playing deep that they had to put Amos back there. That isn't his strong suit as he's 214 lbs but he could handle it better in 2019 and '20 than he has in the last couple of years. If he goes to a team that defines the SS/FS positions more he can probably stretch his career out a few more years.

I think no matter what they have to draft a safety with a lot of experience playing deep, hope they learn quickly and stay healthy.

*I edited my comment above to show some snap numbers for a few mid round safeties. I hope the Packers end up with one of them. Johnson at the end of round one wouldn't bother me a bit either.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:36 am

I hope that you are right. I’m just not sure that you are from re-watching. That answer (Savage) just doesn’t seem to fit well enough, but perhaps I’m missing something. Barry’s scheme seems to expect too much from whomever, however I look at it and whomever is in the role.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:21 am

Branch played 101 snaps deep in his three years at Alabama. He's a good athlete so there's nothing to say he couldn't eventually be a good deep guy but he would put them in the same boat they were in last year. The main points I'm looking at for safeties this year is can they tackle? If yes, can they play deep and have at least 750 snaps experience?

3 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:41 pm

Huge. I like Johnson one helluva lot too. Both he and Branch alike. Should we somehow land two R1s, I’d be hard pressed to not take both players if both were available. Neither has a weakness as far as I’m concerned.

I think there were more issues affecting both Amos & Savage than we’ll ever know. Both solid safeties at one point in their careers, and both falling into the abyss in the same year?

Yeah, we lost Gary, but that was just during the 2nd half of the season. First half of 2022 the pass rush was there to support better S play than we saw. Was it Barry? Was it Jerry Gray having his DBs run rogue against Barry’s wishes/intent? Father Time catching Amos, while Savage played injured?

Two Safeties added early in a deep EDGE draft makes some sense for GB. Especially those two this year.

1 points
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fthisJack's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:23 am

I agree...Branch would be a great pick. I think he will be gone by 15 or 13 if they trade Rodgers to the Jets. I'm praying for a Las Vegas reunion with his buddy Adams and take him at 7.

0 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:57 am

$9M....$9M = a bargain. Let #12 find a better opportunity to win it all and let the Packer's exhale (or, at least me).

"Closing Time" by Semisonic

“every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end".

12 points
12
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Handsback's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:03 am

Agree 100% about MLF’s offense through Love verses Rodgers. My biggest gripe is the lack of leadership from the coaches to have let Rodgers dictate the offense.
This year’s draft class is very deep. At the 15th slot Green Bay will have a tough decision to make…a highly rated player on their board will probably drop to them and they will get multiple calls to trade down. Maybe allowing them to get Branch. I’m thinking if Carter, or the edge guy from Tx.Tech falls, to them they won’t trade. If it’s the RB Robinson then they will…
Just MHO

5 points
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2
croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:16 am

Again, agreed with everything you wrote today, Al.

Regarding Jordan Love - many down play his performance vs Eagles. But reports from Eagles players told us that they did not start to play preventive D when Jordan enter the game in Q4. He had 2 series and was able to add, with his plays, 10 points on the board. And he did that vs top 5 D in the NFL. You also have to take in consideration how excited and stressed he must be. That was his first playing time after that KC game. Still he showed excellent fundamentals, timing, throwing in rhytm and on time for his teammates. He recognized some trap plays Eagles secondary had tried to suck him in and didn't pull the trigger. He used check down player instead. His throws had excellent zip and velocity, he knows where he can throw the ball and when. Only misread he had was the throw to Watson in the end zone, while he had open Allen Lazard (who beat his man) at about 10 yards from end zone (I forgive him that taking into consideration how he must felt in the moment). From those 2 series you can find a lot how good he became through those 3 years as rookie.

I have high hopes he is the man. Saying that, I have no doubts if he become starter this season he will have his up and down games. But we already knows he learns fast and willing.

Regarding Salary cap, I say take as much dead money you can bare this sesson. Start Jordan Love and give him a chance to polish his play to another level. Outcome of the season does not matter.

Regarding draft, I have no expectations. I'm not in mock drafts as I have no possibilities to watch college football, so, for me, players are just names. Also, looking what draftniks are saying about available players I take with large grain of salt. They were much more wrong in their players assesments than any personnel departments around NFL. Their top prospects become in more cases busts than good players.

Your choice of players I take with confidence that you would not suggest this or that player if you are not study his performance deep and well.

After all, development of many of the players are more in the hands of coaches, than on players talents. Many experts claims that 10% is about talent, 20 % is on the coaching and 70% is on hard working.

Thank you on another gem article.

18 points
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NickPerry's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:26 am

Great comment Croat... Right on the money! Thanks friend.

3 points
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dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:23 am

Dead cap--needed to happen. Nobody wants to pay players to not be in uniform, and while they could've tacked on another year to some of these guys and tried to recoup that dead money (and also cover obvious holes on the roster) they can't keep pushing out void years and hitting future caps on guys who are (mostly) well past their primes. Appreciate all they did for the Packers, but the cap needs to get healthy and the team needs to get younger.

Aaron Jones--now needs to be the focal point of this offense. His contract structure makes 2024 a big money year, so he's likely on a one-year deal. Make it count.

SB Odds--love to see Cousins down that list, even after the Packers finished sub-.500 and the Vikes had 13 wins...

Jordan Love/Playcalling--good points about old plays and trying to sync them with new players. In the end, running LaF's offense is still a (beautiful) mystery. In his main stop as a playcaller prior to GB (TN), he had half a season that was really underwhelming, then rode Derrick Henry into the playoffs. This puts the spotlight plainly on LaF and likely is his main audition to remain HC in 2024.

Exhale--the sound likely coming from the lockerroom and from management if 12 moves on. One of the greatest benefits to this management structure and coaching staff is not having to second guess or deal with the one-ups. That tension is going to trickle all the way down the roster. Maybe this is a more loose and relaxed team in 2023.

13 points
13
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croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:31 am

"Maybe this is a more loose and relaxed team in 2023."

Not maybe, you can count on it!

Nice observation dobber!

EDIT: I understood that is the winning MVP odds, not SB odds.

4 points
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1
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:30 am

Don't count on success in 2023. Remember MLF is still our HC and Barry is still our DC. I don't think we can ever truly contend unless those two are given the boot.

8 points
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croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:42 am

I'm not counting on 2023. This 2023 season is transition season. Like it was 2008. Only I can say, but that's me, it will be better result than 6-10. It will be at least 7-10 ;-)

4 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:48 am

I am also thinking of 2023 as a transition season. 6-11 is the worst we could go IMO. At best, we could make the playoffs or even win the NFC North

6 points
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dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:54 am

Yeah, caught that after the fact. :)

2 points
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mrtundra's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:47 am

I LOVEd seeing Cousins lower on that list, too, dobber! Did you realize that the vikings and Packers basically switched records from this past season and one season, ago? Maybe next season, the 8-9 Packers can get a soft schedule, like the 13-4 vikings had, this year. The vikings are expected to regress next season, as they face tougher opponents than they did last year. Couple that with them losing players to the cap and being cut, they could be sub .500 again. If the Packers are not careful, they could allow the Lions to be the NFC North Champs, for the first time. I think the Lions will be the Packers biggest competition in the North, for a while.

7 points
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1
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:58 am

Justin Jefferson would win MVP before Cousins would.

2 points
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dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:39 pm

You might be right, but the MVP is pretty much a "best QB" award. Only 4 non-QBs have won it since 2000.

2 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 23, 2023 at 03:02 am

Every year is a big contract year for a 30-year old RB unless there is guaranteed money. Personally, I think Jones would have encountered no trouble getting a deal from some other team that provided $11M in cash for 2023. As it stands, Jones is under contract for $12M in cash for 2024 so he will have to remain in the top ten of most productive RBs this year. I do remember our conversations in the snap count comments about probably having to keep Jones for 2023, if possible.

I suspect that the Packers are uncertain about the market for some of their UFAs. Heck, I think some of the players are unsure about their market. Tonyan, Nixon, and Amos in particular come to mind. I think we shall have to wait for March 13th (first day of legal tampering) or possibly the combine (first days of unofficial tampering) to see in which direction the Packers go with a few guys. So, no great moogily googily cap shenanigans with Amos. I don't think they want Lowry back, but Reed is possible for roughly the same money.

2 points
2
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stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:31 am

The dead- Yes it’s time for a change.
The draft can replace any of the dead.
And maybe there is no better time than the present.
Rodgers is in a rebuild.
But I look at the list and believe anyone of them
can get more money someplace else.
Araon Jones does deserve praise.
But; The tread/Time on the wheels is the concern.
Not to mention the fumbles. Draft Ammunition?
( If only Gutey knew how to use it. )
Kenny Clark cap shouldn’t be kicked down.
Not when Bahk can’t make practices.
Maybe the thought of a Cincinnati ” trading" rumor.
Would be a better choice.
After all Rodgers is in a Re-build.
And while we're at it.
Gutey should have traded Love to the colts last year.
Now I’m pulling for NO and 2 seconds. (23/24)
Branch is 6’ 195 pounds. Savage is 5’11 198 pounds.
Both play better near the DL./ slot.
And that is my concern. The long speed down the field.
Also at 195 pds will his shoulder hold up.

-7 points
5
12
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:41 am

Why waste a one pick on a safety? I like Sydney Brown later on. 6'-0, 215 with 4.45 40 and 10-1/4 mitts.
When Fans start talking about '24 instead of the 2023 contests, one senses an almost black wave of infante tsunami.

0 points
4
4
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:45 am

Boise State's JL Skinner is still my safety of choice. At 6'4, 220 lbs, he's a thumper of a tackler who isn't afraid to lay the wood; he's a physical, instinctive, playmaking tone setter we need on the back end of the defense.

2021 stats: 92 tackles (66 solo), 2 INTs, 3 PBUs, 2 FFs
2022 stats: 62 tackles (36 solo), 4 INTs, 4 PBUs

Keep in mind that the college season is just 13 games

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:56 am

Does he have 4.3 speed?

2 points
2
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:59 am

No, his 40 is 4.55. Speed is not as important as brains at the Safety position, though, as Darnell Savage has proven.

The 49ers' Hufanga, who may be the best safety in football, ran a 4.6 40. Their other safety Gipson ran a 4.61. The Bills' Jordan Poyer ran a 4.54. Eagles' CJGJ ran a 4.48. The Commanders' Curl ran a 4.6 also

0 points
1
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:03 am

Yes, I agree, Time for a Better Pass Rush.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:59 am

I’m not sure that your comment on speed is strictly true in Barry’s D. Visions of Amos playing effectively boundary corner as a result of zone rotation suggest otherwise.

1 points
1
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:43 am

I like hybrids as much(or more) as the next guy but how many successful hybrids are playing in the league now? Chinn and Digger are playing better now but 2022 was their 3rd seasons. When a big point of concern for Skinner is his change of direction skills that's a big red flag for me. The Packers need a guy that can come in and play deep now.

3 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:01 am

Barry’s design is absolutely the opposite of one suited to hybrids as anything other than 3rd safety. Ford can take that role.

1 points
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stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:02 am

Dillion was taken over Chinn. Go figure.
I'll take either of the Browns. If not both.

.

-5 points
2
7
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:14 am

You mean Dillon?🙄

2 points
2
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croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:25 am

Stupidholder is troll. He was corrected so many times, but he just not want to listen the people.

EDIT: Oh, my God, I also typed his nickname wrongly. Must be the finger was faster than spellchecker.

-3 points
1
4
stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:32 am

No I mean Dillion.
I'd trade him.

-3 points
3
6
13TimeChamps's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:39 am

What about Arron? Would you trade him too?

4 points
4
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stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:54 am

I would not. He's bought and paid for.

-6 points
2
8
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 05:21 pm

We don't have a player named Dillion. You said you meant "Dillion" not "Dillon". You don't even know the names of our players not name "Arron" Rodgers? You call yourself a fan?

Spelling matters.

1 points
1
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croatpackfan's picture

February 23, 2023 at 11:43 am

jurp, he is just honest. Arron is abbreviation for "Aaron Rodgers Regression On Now".

1 points
1
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:17 pm

Dillon was greater than Chinn on the value chart. Chinn was over-rated. I will snag the LB like Willie Gay over a rover guy. Three INTs in three years. I'll take Rudy Ford to play the SS, or watch the cut downs after the draft.
Pass Rush is the imperative. Stop the QB before he creates trouble.

5 points
5
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stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:25 pm

That isn't what I saw.
He was considered a tweener.
But his testing was superior.

-2 points
1
3
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:25 am

Brown missed a lot of tackles at Illinois so he'd fit right in on the Packers.

3 points
3
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:47 am

He and Joseph learned the position from Lovie before he bailed. Brown can cover and has the intellect to diagnose and get in position quickly. A solid player like his twin brother. Was he missing the tackles after the front seven whiffed or were these open field air balls? The canard of the Savage extension is this guy was drafted to be the Free Safety and range between the hash marks with his 4.35 speed. Lost another four pick in the mishmash.

0 points
0
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stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:55 am

He impressed at the Senior -Bowl.
He can pick.

1 points
2
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:05 pm

There is no Law against playing the Ball. Get the INTs. Get the FF. Breakup the pass. Be in the Correct Position on the Field. I'll take Big Ten guys over SEC.

2 points
2
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:25 am

Daily Double.

1 points
1
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jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 05:28 pm

This translation brought to you by the Vogon Embassy, who have been worried that their cultural icons have been misappropriated by one of our posters.
_________________________________________________________

The dead. Yes it’s time for a change. and the draft can replace any of the "dead". Maybe there is no better time than the present, because Rodgers is in a rebuild. But I look at the list of voided players and believe anyone of them
can get more money someplace else.

Araon Jones does deserve praise, but the tread/time on the wheels is the concern., not to mention the fumbles. Maybe he could be draft ammunition?
(If only Gutey knew how to use it. ).

Kenny Clark's salary shouldn’t be kicked into the future. Not when Bahk can’t make practices. Maybe the thought of a Cincinnati ” trading" rumor would be a better choice? After all Rodgers is in a Re-build.

And while we're at it, Gutey should have traded Love to the Colts last year.
Nown I’m pulling for NO and 2 seconds. (23/24) for a Love trade.

Branch is 6’ 195 pounds. Savage is 5’11 198 pounds, and both play better near the DL/slot. And that's my concern. The long speed down the field.
Also at 195 pounds, will his shoulder hold up?
_________________________________________________________

Okay, now that we have the post in English, it's still a solid 5 on the Bonkers Scale. I mean, what are we to make of this?

Kenny Clark cap shouldn’t be kicked down.
Not when Bahk can’t make practices.

What the hell does Bahktiari have to do with Clark's contract? They obviously don't play on the same side of the ball.

And Rodgers being in a rebuiild? Rodgers has said that he doesn't want to be in a rebuild. WTF?

Anyway, stockholder, if you want to accurately get your points across to us, THEN YOU MUST WRITE IN GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT ENGLISH! Like the rest of us do, even those for whom English isn't their first language..

0 points
1
1
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:12 pm

I just skip his longer ones, there's no need to put yourself through that.

1 points
1
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Spock's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:32 am

Al, as always, my favorite column of each week. Your point about the dead money for 2024 makes the $9 million additional with a trade makes a trade THIS year imperative.

7 points
7
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:42 am

Cap health is a squishy target, You always would like to have some "wiggle room", but OTOH not using cap space indicates that you are not doing everything you can to make the team better (FA spending when $$$ are available for upgrades).

All of the cap gymnastics on a year to year basis are what creates the bills that actually come due. The GBP have just about contorted themselves into an unrecognizable mess. It is time to fix some of the mess and just let football things work themselves out. What I mean is to bring in young players and let them play with the understanding that the current coaching and player performance will produce what they see in the mirror, in other words, help is NOT on the way, no big spends for gap filling or upgrades and results are for YOU to create. This will allow for positive growth or knowledge of where the weeding needs to happen. It is past the time to move on from the status quo - same ol', same ol'.

Save the next round of cap gymnastics for 2-4 years down the road when the next batch of successful players have EARNED it through performance and not seniority.

I will leaf you with this; I don't think it's going out on a limb to predict Branch to the GBP, safety is a root problem so stumping for Branch as a solution may bear fruit.

7 points
7
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:51 am

He needs to workout in the weight room, alot! His legs look like twigs...just sayin'. I am not trying to sound like an ash-hole. He better be mentally tough so he doesn't soil himself on the first play. Definitely, hit hard but not dirty...no crotch shots. Hope he contributes on ST, just like Bush did.

Nope, do it the right way Branch...keep clean, no Miracle-Gro. By all indications, the young man appears quite down to earth. I am looking forward to his time in the 3-pinecone drill. His 100 meter time could be as slow as maple syrup however.

When the Pack select you sir, I will raise my oat soda to the heavens and proclaim, "this Bud's for you".

Go Pack Go
Grow Branch Grow

2 points
2
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T7Steve's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:18 am

Do you think Branch could enter the transfer portal for Georgia before the draft? Then it'd be a sure thing for BG.

3 points
3
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pantz_bURp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:28 am

No, ain't gonna happen T7S...he would be barking up the wrong tree, IMHO.

1 points
1
0
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:29 am

Hey, don't leaf me without asking 1st!

1 points
1
0
murf7777's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:54 am

There will be a lot of disappointed fans on this site when Rodgers comes out of darkness and announces he will continue to be a Packer. Personally, I don’t trust McGinn’s comments. Actually, I think it’s 50-50 whether he stays or goes. I’m just leaning towards he decides to stay and the FO welcomes him back. Not my wish to see him stay, I’m tired of the annual drama, , just think too many think it’s a slam dunk he’s leaving.

13 points
14
1
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:17 am

Rodgers already told us what he wants if it were simply his choice. I have little doubt that the Packers and Rodgers already know what the plan is. Most of the noise we hear is created for clickbait and entertainment purposes only.

0 points
5
5
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:52 am

...But it isn't Rodgers' exclusive choice. He has said he doesn't want to be in a rebuild, and that is where the FO is leaning from what I've heard. I could see him wanting to go to Vegas (Adams) or Jets (Hackett).

I do not think we can win with Rodgers any more. I think he is still a great QB, just not the same one as the repeat MVP of 2020-2021. With his increasing age, he needs his roster to step up more in order to win more consistently, which is fair. However I don't think that, because of salary cap reasons and limited draft capital (without a Rodgers trade), we can give him a roster that can compete for a championship this year.

Also, why would we try to win this year in 2023 when it would screw us for the next five or so and we'd be a bottom feeder? Especially when we have Jordan Love? If your QB isn't named Patrick Mahomes, it has been proven over and over that QBs with ridiculous contracts don't win super bowls. Rookies and lower-contract QBs do because the extra cap room gives the team the ability to elevate the rest of the roster.

We need to become a responsible contender; in other words, have a cheaper, young QB who can be a stable of the franchise for the upcoming years, reap draft capital from a Rodgers trade, and use it to build a young, cheap talented roster in hope not just of bringing back the Lombardi but for establishing a new reign of success.

4 points
4
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:10 am

I didn't say it was Rodgers exclusive choice. I said Rodgers' already told us what his preference was. I don't believe for a second the Packers will be in rebuild mode regardless of what direction they go at QB. There is still a ton of talent on this team.

Do you agree there is a plan in place that has been fully discussed by the Packers and Rodgers? It may be Plan A or Plan B, but a plan nonetheless. I'm sure they're not sitting around wondering if AR is awake yet :)

0 points
3
3
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:09 am

Packy,
Looks like you added to your post after I already responded. Nothing in my post suggests one way or the other what the Packers should do. That has proven to be a fruitless exercise for all of us.

My point is the Packers #1, have a plan, and #2, have the talent on their roster that will allow them to compete. I'm not claiming they will win the SB, but they are not in a rebuild either, regardless of whether AR or JL is our QB.

2 points
3
1
LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:06 pm

Except, for 2023, the Packers have a Barry bad forecast for Defense.

7 points
7
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:11 pm

You got me there LP.

1 points
1
0
murf7777's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:14 pm

You also don't win consistently without a Franchise QB....So, the dilemma is pay the Franchise QB and have a chance every year or play an average QB and build a team around him? Most every year the Franchise QB's are the ones in the top 5-10 in Salaries are in the SB. I'll take the former.

The only exception is when you have a Franchise QB in their rookie contract. Of course, that doesn't last and usually in year 3, said QB is asking for a new contract.

0 points
1
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:39 am

Maine -
I agree with you that they already know what the plan is. And Rodgers isn't retiring. Listening to his comments, he isn't done. I'd be extremely shocked if he was.

And I agree with you that most of what we are hearing is just noise.

3 points
3
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:49 am

Exactly RC. Rodgers knows precisely what the Packers have in mind. As you said, we can tell by his comments.
1) "If I stay, the number will not be 60M. Things would have to shift"
2) " I know they might need to move on and get younger. It's not with any malice"

Hence plan A or Plan B. I believe that direction will be influenced by the level of trade interest from other teams. As I have previously stated, I suspect that teams are calling about Love as well as Rodgers.

0 points
2
2
pantz_bURp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:48 am

I think you are right in that everything is on the table - #12 or #10 trade. :(

2 points
2
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:51 am

quite astute my friend.

but a word of caution...

as erudite as it may seem to go back to actual words spoken by AR, beware that his words have not always reflected the true path of his thoughts or actions.

just ONE lobstah roll for your efforts this time...

5 points
5
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:10 pm

Any lobstah roll from you JB is much appreciated. I know you don't give them out freely ; )

I will say, in this case, I do think AR is being straightforward. Only time will tell.

4 points
4
0
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:36 pm

Trading Love and keeping Rodgers would double-down on the idiocy. We'll go into 2024 without an experienced quarterback - and we can't even pick a decent one off the scrap heap because the remainder of Rodgers' bonus will be hurting the cap.

Where will Rodgers be in 2024 in my scenario? Retired.

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 23, 2023 at 05:59 am

Why are you so convinced Rodgers will be retired in 2024? Obviously if the Packers traded Love it would be with the understanding and commitment from AR that he would play more than one year.

I am not advocating that the Packers trade Love. I'm just suggesting that other teams have done their due diligence and inquired about his availability.

-1 points
0
1
Untylu1968's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:25 am

As much as I'm ready for a change, I don't see Rodgers anywhere but Green Bay. Unless we're willing to take anything we can get, I believe his trade value is overrated.

3 points
6
3
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:33 am

I would take a first round pick or two seconds for Rodgers. I don't think the FO will take less than two firsts. That is what I am expecting.

All signs point to Rodgers leaving, and he has no power to stop a trade. The Packers can get rid of him one way or another. If they trade him for draft picks that are all conditional on whether or not he plays, then Rodgers' only veto power is to retire.

3 points
3
0
Packerpasty's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:24 am

all signs, by that you mean by all the "experts" and talking heads with their gossip and clickbait...I would say its at least 50/50 and I bet the front office already knows...

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:37 pm

I fear that it's 90/10 that Rodgers stays.

0 points
1
1
fthisJack's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:58 am

They should have been done with Rodgers last year. It will be total lunacy if they keep him this year.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:09 am

I don't know what his trade value is, either, with limited field time left and limited trading partners, but that ship really sailed last off-season. It's secondary to the fact that the Packers are very limited in the pieces they can put around 12 to prop him up. I think they are an 8-10 win team with him going forward based on how we saw 2022 end...maybe 11 wins. He was given the big contract and the opportunity--as repeat MVP--to try to elevate the play of those around him...and he didn't.

They still have a puncher's chance at winning a title with him, but pretty much everything needs to break right regarding injury, player development, the phases of the moon...so more realistically, they're treading water with him at QB, and it complicates moving toward the future. None of us wants to watch a stagnant, average football team. Moving on helps to clear cap on the horizon and moves the Packers toward the next window. The draft capital in return is gravy.

For all those people saying: you'll be sorry when 12 is gone...what, we weren't sorry WITH him in 2022? And what makes you think it's getting better in his narrow time remaining after returning from a "dark room" where he's getting sushi catered to him?

I tend to agree: ARod has taken root in the Packers organization and has spread his branches through just about every aspect of its operation. He's unlikely to have or acheive that in a year or two somewhere else. But he's also split the fan base and become a pariah--which doesn't seem to sit well with him and may motivate a desire to move (and put a chip on his shoulder, attractive to an acquiring team).

7 points
7
0
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:14 am

His trade value is getting out from the contract as it will be if he’s on the roster in September. That’s a massive payback in terms of our future—that it’s self inflicted is immaterial. Anything else is a bonus.

5 points
5
0
croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:35 am

Coldworld, if Packers decide to cut him, dead money hit will be same as they will trade him. So, there is trade, cut, retirement or be on team for this season.

1 points
1
0
LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:16 pm

This ^^^
CW is correct. Why do I get the strong feeling Howdy Doody Murphy will be wrong?

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:37 am

I'm with you Murf on the McGinn comments. they make no sense to me quite honestly. First why would GB do that?

I listened to Tom Pelissero's comments on the Rich Eisen show. And those were almost polar opposite of what McGinn said. So let me ask this question. Who should we trust more Pelissero or McGinn? I trust Pelissero.

I also agree with you on what it will be like on this page if/when Rodgers returns to GB. It does feel like a majority on this site think he is gone already.

3 points
6
3
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:40 pm

My reaction when Rodgers sees his shadow and says he's coming back will be to sigh deeply, sag at the shoulders, crack a beer, toast the players and the past Packers teams. And then not invest a second's more thought in this team.

I'll still have to visit this site to translate stockholder into English, but that's just a hobby at this point, and I won't have to read anything because his vers libre Vogon is easy to spot in the comments.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:03 am

Disappointed? Maybe. Surprised no. That’s when Murphy’s hoped for free pass expires. Then we will see if there really is any awareness or spine left in him. Honestly, part of me wants that (hence the maybe) because it will force the Packers to reassume the initiative or very starkly reveal how incapable they are. In which case, with the contract, Rodgers is unmovable and Murphy and LaFleur become the only viable targets. Which goes first? The old cart horse or the blind and deaf drivers? It will be ugly on field, otherwise I’d welcome it as Rodgers leaving gives them a window of excuse.

1 points
3
2
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:02 pm

If one goes, they All go. The Poliburo shares the blame. equally.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:10 am

The dead cap was always coming. It was written into the contracts as part of the use of void years to push the load forward. We remain currently over the cap and so a lot of new activity was unlikely given the lack of resolution of, well, you know.

The only player that concerns me is Amos. He was still, despite a down year, our best safety. Right now I don’t see a starter i have great faith in and we need 2 at a position that is notorious for rookie struggles. Perhaps we simply resign him later, as we did with Campbell after his contract voided last year. Maybe he wants to move on anyway or another team beats us to it. Certainly we don’t seem likely to have the cap to make a signing requiring any size of cap commitment and won’t.

None of these players voiding reduced our projected cap, it just cemented already projected sums as dead. Living up against the cap and juggling to get under to start the season leads to these kind of games. Now, at S, this one poses a potential question at a position already one of weakness and need. It remains to be seen how we go about ensuring that the position isn’t even weaker this year. At the moment it’s a candidate to be one of the areas that offset development from existing players.

This situation is one suggesting stasis is our most likely best hope this year. That is always going to be likely as long as we are hard up against the cap. I’m not unhappy to move in from Lowry, Cobb etc at this point. I love Cobb, but we need to get better than they are now. The problem is there are only so many draft picks to go around and they neither all succeed or contribute early on if they do. That leaves bargain basement FA and UDFAs and development just to supplement numbers, not good for starting quality or depth.

Until we break this cycle we are essentially battling in built regression just to hold our own despite any upgrades through positive player growth. We need to break the chain to compete. That starts with stopping pushing out cap. In any meaningful sense that requires getting out from the Rodgers deal and taking the hit, with all the knocks that may entail. Pain now is necessary to permit realistic opportunities in future. These contracts voiding are just a minor source of insight as to why.

10 points
10
0
T7Steve's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:22 am

My biggest worry is that Amos will head back to the team just south of us that regrets dearly, they let him walk in the first place.

-2 points
0
2
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:34 am

With Brisker and Jackson as their Safeties, I don't think Amos would be much use to Da Bears. Especially when they need help at basically every other position.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:49 am

The 5th year option given to Savage put Amos on the Market.

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:16 am

"The only player that concerns me is Amos."

It's unlike BG to leave a glaring hole like that on the roster and tie his hands going into the draft. I expect he'll sign a vet journeyman S on a low-money deal to plug into the depth chart, then take a safety on day 1 or (more likely) 2 of the draft. That's been his MO in the past.

6 points
6
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:40 am

Maybe Rudy Ford returns.

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:54 pm

He could be that vet stopgap depth piece.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:11 am

I don’t disagree, I just think the result is probably less effective not more.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:37 am

For 2023, you're likely right.

2 points
2
0
T7Steve's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:12 am

Al! You missed your chance here! Confessions of a Polluted WALKING Dead Cap Hit? Revenge of the Walking Dead Cap?

How many years of sequels will the FO put us through?

Maybe (like dobber says above) MLF's O was successful in Tenn because after they got a lead, they could just pound Henry and he wouldn't have to adjust. Now, if the Packers O-line comes back form "The Living Dead", they can do the same with AJ and AJD. At least till the playoffs. The adjustments there are the hurdles MLF has yet to prove he can jump. Like in Tenn., he could get away with no adjusting for a while in GB during the season. It all caught up to him and I don't want it to fall on Love.

Do you think your safety from Alabama will be a good edge rusher, Al? Trying to think where Barry might be able to play him out of position.

7 points
7
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:35 am

"Do you think your safety from Alabama will be a good edge rusher, Al? Trying to think where Barry might be able to play him out of position."

LOL. In all seriousness, he does have good value as a blitzer. However, expect Barry to play him 30 yards from the LOS

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:02 am

Edge or OT in round one. Fix the pass pro and get after the opponent's QB.

3 points
3
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:27 am

Agreed. I hope we get Iowa's Lukas Van Ness at #13 (or trade up a couple of spots for Clemson's Myles Murphy if he falls) or that we trade down and get Kansas St's Felix Anudike Uzomah

-1 points
0
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:32 pm

I now have Uzomah as the #15.

-2 points
0
2
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:04 pm

Most people don't even have FAU going in round 1, so if we trade back with the Jags or Giants, let's say, we should be able to get him easily

0 points
1
1
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:16 pm

"Most people" don't include GMs.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:34 pm

Some are mocking him @ #9

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:53 pm

I'll take Foskey.

-2 points
0
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:52 pm

"Fix the pass pro "

The Packers with 12 at QB in recent years have not been a team to roll the pocket or try to buy time on called rollouts. It's something they could use with a younger QB with springier legs, and simplifies reads (even if it cuts down the field).

5 points
5
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:39 pm

Blue chip @ RT

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:18 am

Recognizing the dead:
I think if they resign any of these players the players they most likely will resign are Tonyan, Crosby and/or Lewis.

Aaron Jones:
Also I think Jones recognizes that this is the perfect place for him. The team, the town, the fans. He won't go to another team and get the love that he has here from the fans and whatnot. Also I think he realizes that the offense is going to be returning to the greatness.

Who's next?
I'm guessing that Clark, and Bakhtiari are 2 more guys that will be redoing their deals to clear space.

From Pete Dougherty (and Ken Ingalls):
The part to remember is that when the media talks about Rodgers cap numbers, is that its only 31.6 million against the cap. All you hear in the media is that its 50 million per year. $20 million difference, is a lot.

Interesting Stuff -

This means nothing of course, but I do find it interesting (and funny) who the oddsmakers think have a worse chance of winning the 2023 NFL MVP than Jordan Love:
The funniest one to me is Cousins.

More Jordan Love:
Dunne definitely seems to have some sort of axe to grind with Rodgers. I am just wondering what Rodgers did to him when he was in GB, because he always seems to be in the middle of a lot of negative articles regarding Rodgers.

Sure he can run the offense. But I don't really see how that will show us who to blame or give credit too. If Love sucks, does that mean we blame LaFleur for it? And if Love is great, does that mean its because of LaFleur?

Now I get the idea that everyone on offense will be on the same page. Or will at least they all will know everything that is put into LaFleurs offense. If that was truly a problem with Rodgers the last few years, then this could be a good thing if Love becomes the starting QB.

Brian Branch -
I don't have a draft crush yet. But I have a draft crush position. And that is TE. I want to see GB come away with an athletic TE that can stretch a field. Someone that when they catch the ball they don't get tackled immediately. And someone that can be a redzone threat. I'm not asking for much.

2 points
4
2
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:42 am

Clark and Alexander are the two most likely Restructures IMO. Bakhtiari is a trade candidate (probably to KC or NYJ). I think it is time to move on to Tom and Nijman as our Tackles of the future, and maybe we pick up someone in the draft.

I will say, I thought Jones needed to go as a cap casualty, but I'm glad he's staying when all is said and done. He is a great Packer, and he will help ease the (likely) transition from Love to Rodgers.

As far as TEs go in the draft, it depends on who you want. Here are my comparisons so far:
Michael Mayer (Notre Dame) = Gronk. Great blocker, great pass catcher and route runner
Dalton Kincaid (Utah) = Travis Kelce. Has that shiftiness and is very evasive after the catch. Excellent pass catcher, and a decent but improving blocker.
Tucker Kraft (South Dakota St.) = George Kittle. Has great tackle-breaking ability and tons of YAC potential. Good blocker with potential to improve
Darnell Washington (Georgia) = Prime Marcedes Lewis. At 270 lbs and 6'7, he is something else. He is far and away the best blocker - like a 6th O-lineman. His YAC skills and reliable hands shouldn't be discounted either
Luke Musgrave (Oregon St.) = Dallas Goedert. He is a fast, athletic TE who is a good blocker. Doesn't break many tackles, but can make outstanding catches.

-2 points
1
3
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:15 am

I highly doubt they will be trading Bakhtiari. No matter who the QB is, I don't see them trading away the best LT in the league when he is healthy. And he was playing really well down the stretch.

I think your TE comparisons are pretty fair overall.

2 points
3
1
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:36 am

Bakhtiari is 32 and has a moster contract. If they don't trade him they'll cut him this offseason, as it's necessary he's a cap casualty both now and in the future.

We need to get younger and cheaper, and after Tom bulks up and Nijman gets a full offseason of training at RT (he trained almost exclusively at LT last year), you may be surprised by the results. My biggest concern on a like with those two at Tackle would be the Center spot.

0 points
3
3
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:42 am

I don't see it happening.

And Yosh might not be back.

3 points
3
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:54 am

They can put a 2nd round tender on him for 4.3 million. They would have to be stupid not to bring an above-average Tackle like him back for that little. If someone signs him while he's under the tender, we get their 2nd round pick.

4 points
6
2
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:17 am

Yeah they can. I just don't know if they will or not. I agree with you that it would be the smart thing to do. Time will tell if that happens.

Nothing else Yosh is a perfect backup swing tackle. Though I think he is better at LT then RT.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:27 pm

If they don’t tender Nijman as a corollary of keeping Bakh then they are essentially devoid of sense. If Bakh stays, and I’m not sure he will, it’s almost certainly for one year due to his contract. The advantage of trading him now is not so much cap savings pre June 2, but picks. His value isn’t likely to increase and could plummet if he gets hurt.

2 points
4
2
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:46 pm

Never underestimate the idiocy of our front office.

0 points
1
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:39 pm

I believe Tom has supplanted Nijman as the swing Tackle. They need another blue chip at OT. Bhak stays on his deal. You create nothing, but another hole on the O line by moving him. He will be doing a refi this week or next.

-1 points
2
3
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:58 pm

I think Tom starts, particularly if he’s diligent in the weight room. Whether at T or elsewhere remains to be seen.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:18 am

"I believe Tom has supplanted Nijman as the swing Tackle."

Then who's the starting T?

I think the Packers need to have a clear plan for him. He's smart, got good feet, and his head on a swivel. He's likely never going to be a power OL, and given time, opposing DCs will look for weaknesses in his game to exploit, esp if he's a T. We'll see how he does with time, but I'm hopeful.

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:06 pm

I think he can be a great RT if he has time to practice there. Remember, 1/3rd of the way through the season, Yosh was thrust in at RT despite not practicing there, essentially, during the offseason. He will be a better RT next year

-2 points
0
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:20 pm

"He will be a better RT next year"

That would be the hope. People seem down on Nijman, but it's based mostly on the end of 2022 when he had a bad shoulder and was trying to play with one arm.

6 points
6
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:50 pm

Was he injured when Von Miller beat him like a drum into the QBs lap, repeatedly. He had his chance. This isn't the Little Sisters of the Poor.

-2 points
0
2
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:07 pm

Hyperbole?

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:22 am

It allows the draftniks to rationalize shit-canning the whole roster.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

February 23, 2023 at 09:04 am

dobs, I resemble that remark! LOL.

It's funny, but there was more thought put into the suggestion I made last week (probably still ringing in your ears!!!) than you might think.

This is one of the weakest draft classes for OG in a very, very long time. Maybe since the epic 1991 NFL's worst OL draft class.

I mentioned two OL possibly included in a package deal with AR to the Jets: David Bakhtiari & Elton Jenkins.

Think a historically weak OG class might, and no cap room to add FAs might tempt Woody Johnson to swing for the fences with picks by adding both Bakhtiari and Jenkins into the mix?

Many scoff at the notion (both players being fan favorites), which begs the question: If those 2 players added into an Aaron Rodgers trade package help to seal the deal, with a bevy of high draft picks in the next 3-4 seasons the return, would it hurt us more, or help us, given the Packers current situation?

Are the Packers making a play for winning it all in 2023? Hell no.

Are the Packers possibly looking to take the dead money hits associated with such a trade in 2023 in order to start 2024 with a far better draft position in each round and a boatload of picks to help build for 2024 & beyond, plus a salary cap that swings back into the black?

If they're not screaming "Hells to the YES!" on that, we likely entered into the wobbly mirror room in this 1265 Circus.

If Bakhtiari & Jenkins close this deal for both the Jets AND Aaron Rodgers, I see nothing but positives, for a team whose cap is still $9,000,000 in the red after our recent player contracts voided.

If the Packers chose to eat a ton of dead cap this season, slough off/restructure some remaining contracts with a clear future and a bunch of high picks the prize, I would not fault them one bit. As a matter of fact, I'd celebrate that.

***(Again, I ask anyone truly interested to go search out Woody Johnson's recent comments to ESPN on the subject of trading for Aaron Rodgers).

Epic trade packages are unprecedented in today's NFL. Agreed. Doesn't mean they cannot be done. Listen to Woody Johnson's comments & read his others to date on the subject, and he's clearly willing to move mountains to get AR in a Jets uniform.

0 points
1
1
13TimeChamps's picture

February 23, 2023 at 10:59 am

Let's start Jordan Love behind a line minus our two best linemen. Makes perfect sense.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2023 at 11:25 am

A line man who won’t be with him long. I can see an argument for giving youth a chance to develop and getting some cap relief and trade value. We aren’t in a position to contend at this point. I doubt Bakh is when we are.

1 points
2
1
13TimeChamps's picture

February 23, 2023 at 11:34 am

Jenkins is 27. He was also included in this "blockbuster trade of the century".

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:15 am

So he's not good because he DIDN'T surrender a sack to the premier pass rusher of the last decade?

6 points
6
0
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:18 pm

There's definitely a lot to question when it comes to who was practicing where in training camp. Mistakes were made.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:07 am

A lot of mistakes

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:35 am

If he's an above-average LT, then I wouldn't be surprised if a 2nd round tender doesn't keep him.

Packers will need to decide how important he is in their ongoing plans and whether he merits a 1st round tender.

4 points
4
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:07 pm

With an abundance of good tackles, like Dawand Jones, Cody Mauch, and Darnell Wright in the second round, I don't think many teams would want to give up a 2nd round pick when they could draft a guy like that for cheaper. If anyone does end up taking Nijman we can just draft one of those guys.

1 points
3
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:22 pm

If I've got a pretty good team that needs a plug-and-play tackle and my choice is to use a 2nd round lottery ticket on a rookie and hope he can play or to send my 2nd (especially in the latter half of round 2) to GB for a guy with plenty of NFL film who has shown he's capable, I think it's a no-brainer--especially since that can be done in advance of the draft, and allows you to realign your priorities as a result.

...or if you're the Bears with multiple 2nds, in need of OL, with Getsy as your OC (so, first-hand knowledge of Nijman), and looking to eff-up a division rival, maybe you make that move just to be jackasses. (IN EDIT: forgot CHI gave away their 2nd for Claypool...but they still suck)

5 points
5
0
Bitternotsour's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:44 am

i can confirm this - the bears do indeed suck.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

February 23, 2023 at 09:32 am

I think Nijman is worth a 1st Round tender. 100%.

He'll get snapped up tout de suite with an R2 tender, and we will lose out in that equation. Maybe the Packers don't see it that way... We'll see soon enough.

1 points
1
0
dobber's picture

February 23, 2023 at 09:36 am

Gamesmanship. We'll see where he fits in their plans, and whether they feel they can do better. A 1st round tender will likely keep him. A 2nd makes that pretty dicey. If he isn't part of the long-term plan, maybe they take their chances and try to recoup the pick rather than seeing his price tag go up.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

February 23, 2023 at 10:25 am

Considering we're still $9M over the cap as of today, staring at an OT rich 2023 draft class, that is a valid point.

We all should be of the mindset we're hopefully setting up for a legit run in 2024. Anything positive we get out of 2023 will be made with house money earned through the Packers swift & cunning navigation of all personnel issues in front of them this offseason.

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 23, 2023 at 09:50 am

We should keep Nijman. A veteran who can play both tackle spots. If you want a good 9 man group to start the season, he'd be one.

3 points
3
0
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:40 am

They only save around $8 million by cutting or reading Bakhtiari. For that much rather have him on the team. If they don't do a massive restructure he's much easier to move next year. Massive restructure incoming.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:30 pm

Oh great, let’s thrust another huge dead cap burden on the future to keep an aging player in order to not contend. Good grief.

3 points
5
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:48 pm

The only real reasons to keep Bakhtiari around are to either (1) keep a returning 12 happy, or (2) keep a new QB upright as much as possible. The dude can still play and his trade value will never be higher, but you have to wonder how much that knee has left in it. I'd be shopping him at this point.

4 points
4
0
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:21 pm

If Rodgers stays, Bakh is here, I agree. A waste of both in my opinion.

I would start Love with the best combination of Jenkins/Tom at C and Nijman and the other at T. Walker and Jones as the backups. Let Myers fight at C and G. Draft a G later. Let Rhyan fight them and anyone else to challenge Runyon. That should be on past play plenty good enough at T for Love in year one. Bakh isn’t going to be around long

I would take what picks I could get for Bakh. At his age, his value will diminish and he’s shown he can still play. An injury and we are stuck contractually and his value plummets for the next year. Cash in while we still can: take the cap as a bonus we can certainly use and picks. In our position, both may have more value than they normally would have. They might get us a competent vet and a contributor from the draft, directly or as trade up ammunition.

At some point we have to get some value from what we have and give youth a chance to grow. With Bakh, we have adequate alternatives. The new era should start with them in what will be a transition year in which development of players and units is key. Love will get most value from having the best LT we can in 2024 and beyond. That isn’t going to be Bakh.

1 points
3
2
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:08 pm

They save 17 million with a post June release or trade. Plus, we also get draft capital in return too.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:40 pm

An acquiring team gets him at a pretty good rate in 2023 for a quality LT--the lack of cap savings for GB isn't so much reflected in the cost to the acquiring team.

1 points
1
0
LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:23 pm

Bakht is an expensive 32 year old LT...but he is one of the best LTs in the NFL. And when he shifted into his healthy gear last year, he was very very good. Love needs a guy like David. I think Dave will be like a big brother to Jordan and really help him as a starter.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:11 am

"He won another MVP. He withered in another playoff loss."

Its almost like there is another team on the field that has some say in how these games go.

Sure lets blame it all on the QB though. He solely lost the game. Had nothing to do with the decision to make changes along the OL after Bakhtiari got hurt. Has nothing to do with the clear Holding/DPI that wasn't called against Tampa that resulted in an interception. Has nothing to do with Aaron Jones fumbling.

-1 points
5
6
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:34 am

Personally, I don't see the point of blaming it all on the QB. Here is how I see it:

Last year, after the security blanked of Adams was taken away, the Packers were truly exposed as a team who can beat average and below average opponents in the regular season but can't beat the big boys, hence the 8-9 finish. The coaching did no favors either.

Rodgers is still a good QB, but he is not the repeat MVP he was in 2020 and 2021. As he gets older, his abilities start to fade - that's just natural. As this happens, he needs his roster to do more of the heavy lifting to help the Packers win.

I do not believe the Packers have the draft capital or the cap space to provide that roster to Rodgers anymore. Even if we did, why would we want to do this for just one more year and screw our future for the next 5? Look at the cap predicament the Saints are in. That's where we're heading.

Also, we have a young, ascending, cheap QB in Love. With the exception of Patrick Mahomes, the highest paid QBs in the league have not been the ones that win SBs. QBs on rookie or smaller contracts (like Brady) are the ones that win.

I see a golden opportunity to trade Rodgers for extra draft capital, use 2023 to resolve our salary cap issues, build through the draft with cheap contracts around love, and build a responsible contender like KC, not one that is paying for today with tomorrow's money just to be a mediocre team.

In short, I don't think the Packers can provide a good enough roster to win with Rodgers and I don't think doing so is worth sacrificing the long term future of the organization. If we had a significant chance to win the SB, then let's go ahead and do it, but this 8-9 roster won't be sniffing the super bowl for at least another season.

2 points
4
2
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:54 am

Its natural to place all the blame on the QB when there is a loss and give him all the credit when the team wins.
This reminds me of the Super Bowl with the Patriots vs the Seahawks. Seahawks were 1 yard away from a TD and rather then giving the ball to Lynch they threw it and there was an interception winning the game for the Patriots. Immediately after the game the narrative was Tom Brady is the best QB ever because he won another Super Bowl. Had the Seahawks handed the ball off to Lynch and they won, would Tom Brady still be the best QB in history?

Last year was a down year no question. Rodgers was playing injured, and there were to many injuries around him to be successful. The OL, the WR's, the TE's, all had issues.

The part I disagree with is that the Roster won't be good enough moving forward. The reason is because the OL will be stabilized. The only question will be RT, where we can pencil in Tom and be just fine. The WR's will be much better with Watson and Doubs going into year 2. They will also add to the position, and likely bring in some sort of veteran that will help. And most importantly Rodgers wont' be playing hurt. And if Rodgers were to be gone, the talent is there for Love to do well.

I disagree that this roster wont' be good enough. I believe that it will be.

-1 points
4
5
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:23 am

We are arguing about the past not the present. Stop judging Rodgers by his younger days and maybe the vision gets clearer. If we maintain stasis we will be lucky. Unfortunately in doing so we will be cap free and locked in to paying Rodgers sums that are truly ridiculous for two years as well as hanging on to others like Bakh who only make sense with our cap if we aren’t starting a new era. Go that route and the word ugly will gain whole new levels of meaning,

4 points
5
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:31 am

i'm not referring to Rodgers of 10 years ago. I'm looking at the previous 2 years and last year. And projecting to what it would look like going forward.

It won't be ugly if the play on the field is great.

Look at Bakhtiari for example. When he was on the field he allowed 0 sacks. I don't know how many pressures he allowed either. Jenkins down the stretch was so much better. Myers was getting better each week. Runyan with an offseason to practice his footwork for RG will make a huge difference.

The OL will be better then it was last year. Everything starts with the OL. That being better, will mean the offense will be better!

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:41 am

2 years ago, really we should call it 3 if we want to refer to his most recent great season, Is an age for a guy playing QB who will turn 40 this season.

6 points
6
0
Packerpasty's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:27 am

the ones that win Super Bowls are the ones on loaded teams with little weakness and great coaching....Packers have too many soft spots to go along with their mediocre coaching staff...

6 points
7
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:23 pm

Short, sweet and dead accurate.

2 points
2
0
croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:51 am

I would like to answer you on the following part of your post:
"Personally, I don't see the point of blaming it all on the QB. Here is how I see it:

Last year, after the security blanked of Adams was taken away, the Packers were truly exposed as a team who can beat average and below average opponents in the regular season but can't beat the big boys, hence the 8-9 finish. The coaching did no favors either."

I believe ACR was informed that Davante was traded. Just after he signed his extention last year he said that he is surprised by DA trade.

Still, knowing that he will have new WR room for the 2022 season, he still decided to drink ayahuasca tea and not show to team activities. He said he does not need those practices and that TC will be enough for him. His guilt was/is that he thought only about himself, not about team and young guys, not about how to help them to be ASAP on the same page with him. And then he wondered, like a goose in front of a colorful door, when young players didn't play as he wanted to. And, that was, perhaps, the least guilty.

5 points
6
1
Johnblood27's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:07 pm

love the goose analogy... LOL!

2 points
2
0
jont's picture

February 22, 2023 at 03:26 pm

RC:
"Dunne definitely seems to have some sort of axe to grind with Rodgers. I am just wondering what Rodgers did to him when he was in GB, because he always seems to be in the middle of a lot of negative articles regarding Rodgers."

I think he kind of goes the other way; Rodgers came to see him as a not-so-good reporter. Rodgers has often said that he dislikes it when people write about him with things they do not know. Well, Dunne doesn't write about football as much as he writes about personalities, stories, and narratives. He speculates and embelishes some scenes to flesh it out. Presumably he missed once too often for Rodgers' liking, Rodgers let it be known, and then Dunne's focus on personalities and stories merged with a "well, I don't like him either" sort of thing.

0 points
0
0
packer132's picture

February 22, 2023 at 08:22 am

Al: Most of us look forward to your weekly drain from the brain and insight. Regarding the dead, no real surprises. I wouldn't mind seeing them re-sign Reed. As Nick stated, I enjoyed seeing good games from Cobb (beating the Bears), Mason, and Big Dog. Its time to get younger and better now. I expect GB to package and trade and least once. They have 6 seventh round picks and usually its tough to make the team from that spot. Branch would be great at #15 or edge/OT. Tight ends are very deep and a starter could be found in the 2nd or 3rd round. Running back also can be found later. This is the slowest time of the offseason, and the draft can't get here soon enough for me.

2 points
3
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:48 pm

Reed should be brought back to the depth chart on fair money.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:50 pm

Reed was a good pick up. He’s a good piece if we can keep him at a similar price, Lowry remains gone and we add a run first type (or Ford proves ready).

2 points
2
0
PeteK's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:06 am

--Jones is a must for this offense and locker room. I'm very happy he will be back, and a 6.5 mill cap hit if released in 25 is feasible.
--Certainly seems as though S will be a priority since we released Amos. I like Branch's versatility. Add him to a backfield with Alexander and we have winning combo.
-- Add a DT like Roy from LSU to help plug our run D weakness.

-1 points
1
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:25 am

Jones' cap hit in 2024 is about $17M, though, with $11.1M in cash. The dead money on a cut pre Jun 1 next year is over $12M (so a savings of only about $5M). I don't know if he sees that 2024 money. Those void years pile up. His contract voids after the 2024 season.

4 points
4
0
Razer's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:09 am

On the surface, the big story is about Rodgers/no Rodgers. For me this is about Brian Gutekunst. Can he be the architect of a championship team? The decisions he makes (or someone makes for him) will determine whether the Packers are building or sliding into the lower ranks. To date, I am see little from Brian to indicate that he is leading this team forward. Here's my read:

- 50/50 on his drafting
- hasn't surrounded his MVP QB with enough offensive talent
- hasn't built enough strength in the trenches
- weak coaching staff
- poor contract situation(s)

This is the year for Gutekunst to show that he has a plan and can fashion a new foundation for a championship. If he brings back Rodgers or Rodgers informs him of his return then our GM is treading water and this franchise isn't building much. Show me Brian - show me that you can build a championship.

0 points
5
5
PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:38 am

The contracts fall on Ball. I would say Gutey's drafts have been above-average. Lack of offensive talent is noticeable, though. My guess is MLF was more Murphy's choice than Gutey's.

It is critical that he guides us well through this transitionary period. I believe he can do so. In Gutey we trust!

4 points
6
2
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:42 am

Really the million dollar question is whether the roster was geared to moving on. That’s a multi year process. If it was then the roster starting last preseason made a lot of sense cap and personnel wise with one obvious and major exception. That very strongly supports the view that Murphy changed the plan.

If keeping Rodgers was in fact an anticipated strategy, then criticisms of Gute become more credible, particularly if that was the case for a year or two. Looking at the evidence of both roster and other decisions, I see nothing that supports this view though. Everything points to both a roster and offensive design heading the other way only to then have Rodgers reinserted and further anointed. If that’s the case, then part of that thinking should have included where the roster and cap were at.

I personally believe that contracts, roster and coaching very clearly point to Mark Murphy having screwed the pooch and then exacerbating matters with a contract extension ceding control beyond all reasonable justification. The result is a cluster despite some in denial. This roster isn’t peaking via the draft and Rodgers before he’s 42/43 and then he would need to be older than Brady to capitalize fully on that window.

This whole mess screams for the worms to turn on Murphy. But then worms are spineless by design. It’s asking a lot, but if Rodgers is here in September, the path downwards is essentially locked in contractually and in cap terms. Will our next fight be watching Love win while we don’t or how much we can get for Watson because we are so far from contending?

Let’s hope sense returns, that we really aren’t blind to last season or the roster and cap as they are. Rodgers can save us and him, but it’s not his duty to. If he doesn’t, then we should accept that the ugly has not yet started, on and off the field if no vertebra have been found. At that point they are all gone in ignominy most likely, as is this decade for the team.

I will always be rooting for the Packers, but if Rodgers stays in anything close to this contract, then I’ve already decided to withdraw from doing so publicly until Murphy and LaFkeur are history and, however bad we are, we have the power to try to build around whomever at QB. There are somethings so imbecilic and so patently self-evident that some kind of distance is the only way to still care. That’s where this team is if we stick with Rodgers and this execrable contract.

Fire Mark Murphy. He’s more than earned it. So have those who facilitated his ascension to control of football and its direction since then.

7 points
9
2
Guam's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:37 am

Normally a big fan of your comments and insights Razer, but have to disagree with parts of this one. The coaching staff reports directly to Murphy, not Gute. The contracts and cap are handled by Ba!l who reports to Murphy. Gute is not really a GM in the traditional sense but more of a personnel guy (pro and college).

Speculative on my part, but I don't believe Gute is in charge of the Rodgers decision either. The current contract appears to have been negotiated by Murphy and I suspect the Rodgers/no Rodgers decision will be Murphy's as well.

Critique Gute for the first three points (sans Rodgers),but the last two don't belong to him.

3 points
5
2
LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:41 am

50/50 on drafting is the mark of a HOF GM.

5 points
6
1
LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:36 pm

I am surprised you still do not understand Murphy's Football Operation Committee.

Gutey is not the GM...he is the assistant GM in actual decision making. Murphy has been the acting GM for 5 years running after he seized control on a "temporary basis" 5 years ago.

Gutey does not hire or approve coaching hires. MLF hires them with Murphy's approval.

Gutey does not make contractual decisions nor construct them. Murphy does and Ball makes it happen.

Gutey cannot show you how to build a Championship...you need to look to Acting GM Howdy Doody Murphy. You will be waiting for a while.

5 points
5
0
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:09 pm

"Gutey does not make contractual decisions nor construct them. Murphy does and Ball makes it happen."

I've been critical of Murphy for awhile, but I think the amount that he actively participates in player/personnel is mostly limited to the high-profile decisions--the big contracts and high-end players. He's been present in the draft room of the Packers most years since he became president.

https://www.packersnews.com/picture-gallery/sports/nfl/packers/draft/201...

I would think that most GMs around the league--before they enter into negotiations on big-money contracts (and before signing)--are having conversations with their team president. I'll bet that Murphy's kept apprised lower end personnel moves, but stays out of the majority of them. As for Ball, we know most teams have a money guy who handles negotiations in conversation with the GM and within set financial constraints. I'll also bet that Ball works more closely with Gute than he does Murphy on contracts, and that he doesn't have the green light to initiate contract negotiations on his own. If BG wasn't the guy making primary decisions on roster construction (as we've been told he is), we'd know it by now.

-1 points
0
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 03:37 pm

You say that, and I don’t doubt that Murphy isn’t involved in the later round draft boards or back of the roster churn. However, Murphy has written and stated multiple times that if one of his direct reports is concerned about a course another wishes to follow, it will come to him and it will be his decision. That is true if a contract or roster decision.

That’s not hands off. Involvement of that nature is actually quite wide ranging. It’s really how a CEO manages heads of divisions. It’s oversight, monitoring and then steering when it matters. That’s hands on management.

As Murphy himself said, talking of GM and HC: “"It would be very different if Matt was reporting directly to Brian and he was a supervisor. Now there is a partnership that I think will really benefit the organization," Murphy said. "If they can't agree on something, they come to me and what I usually say is we'll sit down and I want you to work it out. And then they work it out."

Tom Olson, the former lead executive director described Murphy’s role thus: “"Certainly there is an organization chart and structure and Mark's obviously at the top of that," he said, "but in most cases he's working with people to help them do their jobs."” That in any corporate management means active involvement short of micromanaging.

The statements of Murphy, Olson and others make it very clear that this is not the hands off “how’s it going” chats that a non executive Chairman might have, but a deliberately integrated superior and subordinate direct management structure. That inherently means that Murphy is deeply involved.

Yes he doesn’t manage the draft board or choose who is active on any given day, but if he did he’d be doing their jobs not managing. He’s no less hands in than any CEO, which is actually exactly how he and Tom Olson made It clear that they intended it to be; “from a business standpoint, most CEOs and presidents want the most-important people in the organization reporting to them, because that's going to determine the success of the organization.” Mark Murphy.

So I think you underestimate intent and effect. I think that it’s worth pointing out that the corollary I’d that, in the end, the outcomes of such interventions reflect what a CEO wants first and foremost over either supplicant party. It’s for that reason that the CEO takes primary responsibility. We need to be very aware of that in assigning culpability for the current mess.

Before someone brings up the “I won’t be making football decisions” statement, that was a preface to the more revealing quotes, or similar statements to those cited here, that give the lie to the hands off interpretation many like to assign in favor of, largely, the opposite.

By his own words, if you dig them out, Murphy set up a structure where he is the pivotal decision maker and wanted it that way and stated directly that it is because he will bear the ultimate responsibility for the success of otherwise. Time to live up to your justification for dismantling the Harlen structure. Time for us to not excuse but inquire.

4 points
4
0
Packerpasty's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:27 am

The only thing constant is change, all things must pass....om

4 points
4
0
splitpea1's picture

February 22, 2023 at 10:55 am

Totally agree about Branch--we should be able to put him on the field right away. But if someone snatches him up before us, I would also be happy with a top OL with our first pick. If we do manage to net a couple of extra high picks via trade, we should be able to fill needs at S, OL, TE, and WR in the first two days.

0 points
2
2
Swisch's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:35 am

I don't see how both Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love can be with the Packers next season.
To ask Love to sit another season seems to be asking way too much.
What do other fans think?
***
If I'm on target, then the decision about Rodgers isn't just about keeping him, but about losing Love.
I'd be happy to see Rodgers do well with another team in his last season or more, but it would be really hard to see Love leading another team toward a Super Bowl (although I'd be happy for him).
Love seems to be more than a little promising, and it's a huge risk to lose him this offseason, or even to alienate him if he does stay but doesn't play.

1 points
4
3
13TimeChamps's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:49 am

I'd have to agree that both Rodgers and Love won't be on the roster in 2023. Asking a 1st round draft pick to ride the bench for 4 years would be unheard of. And there is no way they're paying Rodgers $50million to be Love's backup. A decision has to be made one way or the other.

6 points
6
0
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:31 pm

Well if Rodgers is back with GB, and they want to keep Love, he really doesn't have much leverage. He can sit and demand a trade, but what is that going to really do for him, especially if it is summer. He will lose valuable practice time and really would only be hurting himself.

The Packers can exercise the 5th year option as well if they wanted to.

Love unfortunately doesn't have a ton of leverage in this situation.

It basically comes down to what the Packers want to do.

1 points
1
0
13TimeChamps's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:54 pm

Can you recall a situation where a healthy 1st round pick was asked to sit on the bench for 4 years? I can't.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:22 pm

I don't recall any, but really its their choice.

To be fair though, how many QB's drafted in the first round had the QB they were drafted to replace turn in back to back mvp seasons?

0 points
2
2
dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:49 pm

I can think of plenty who were healthy busts and couldn't meaningfully play their way on the field.

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:21 pm

Right, but if the Packers treat Love shabbily, he can walk away from the Packers just when he is emerging as a top quarterback.
Keeping a guy of Love's promise on the bench for a fourth season would indeed be really unfair (in apparent agreement with 13TC, in his comment above).
To me, it would be asking for almost superhuman patience. It would be impeding his career, and pro athletes only have so many years in their prime.
Pandering to one player to the point of disrespecting another is not a good way to go for practical as well as personal reasons.
***
It seems to me the Packers would want to be the top organization in the NFL in treating its players well -- which doesn't have to mean making a player the top-paid at his position.
I'm for being generous -- but that's with all of the players, not just some. The better players deserve more of a reward, but within the context of fairness for all of their teammates.
If some guys want extravagant money, we can part with them amicably, wishing them well.
If they stay with the Packers, we want them to know they'll still get a good deal financially, and be truly appreciated by the management and the fans in a way that goes beyond other teams.
***
That's why it was so wrong when Aaron Rodgers seemed to trash the front office as cold and heartless to players -- upon finally coming back from his holdout in 2021 on the eve of training camp -- without much, if anything, in the way of solid evidence.
It seems he was recklessly trashing personal reputations (e.g., Gute) in order to justify his own selfishness -- and that's a serious matter, indeed.
It was also an attack on the Green Bay Packers, a hit to the reputation of the franchise, which could cause other players to be hesitant in coming here.
This is an example of Rodgers undermining the dignity of everyone who cares about the Packers -- although he can only really do so if we let him.
Dysfunction leads to more dysfunction, and so on, until the team is in a shambles for seasons to come.
***
As almost always, I may be more or less wrong, and am glad for other perspectives.

0 points
3
3
RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:24 pm

Well he really can't walk because when his contract expires they can franchise him.

Basically I'm just saying that the ball is in the Packers court as far as Love goes. If they want to keep him, they can and will. If they want to trade him they will.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:17 pm

If they don’t exercise the option then they cannot tag him. That is not available.

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

February 22, 2023 at 06:43 pm

To go from groveling before Rodgers to being rude to Jordan Love would be the height of folly, as well as really poor human relations beneath the dignity of true Packers fans.
How can Love be successful in leading the Packers to a title if the front office is treating him terribly?
What the Packers can do, in any case, is not what the Packers should do.
***
My hunch, RC, is that you would heartily agree with this, even while pointing out the situation in terms of Love's contract.
I would guess just about everyone here at CHTV is on board with treating our players with real respect and a generous amount of kindness.
***
It's a hard world, but I genuinely believe most Americans still go out of their way to make it easier on those around them.
Despite slanders to the contrary, Americans in general care about all people without exception, and will give a hand of kindness to anyone in need.
That's who we are, and by the grace of God, that's who we will continue to be.

1 points
2
1
jurp's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:02 pm

They can pick up his option, but then Love is GONE, with a ton of ill will. And we'll be left with some random rookie or scrap heap pickup at QB. Jiom Del Gaizo or Rich Campbell, Mark II. Ramifications could be other players not wishing to play for GB.

4 points
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Lphill's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:35 am

interesting that Jim Leonhard is sitting out coaching for one year because of his health might be why Barry wasn't fired which means his job is safe one more season.

-1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:42 am

Leonhard is talking to the Eagles about their DC spot.

3 points
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croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:54 am

you just beat me for a second!

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:26 pm

He did, but Jeremy Fowler reported today that The Eagles and Leonard mutually decided they wouldn't not move forward with him being the DC. He planned to have hip surgery and to sit out the year.

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Coldworld's picture

February 23, 2023 at 08:21 am

True, but the interview process was started knowing about the pending hip operation and after Leonard had indicated that he was taking a year off. The operation was not cited as the cause of the “mutual” agreement not to proceed but as a factor. It’s a big jump from that to assuming he’s waiting for a role with the Packers. In fact it’s a total leap of faith.

1 points
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croatpackfan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:53 am

footballscoop.com/news/jim-leonhard-reportedly-interviewing-for-nfl-defensive-coordinator-job

add that h+t+t+p+s+:+/+/ in front and open the link. You will find news about Jim Leonhard.

0 points
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dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:01 pm

I'm guessing Leonhard--aside from the hip surgery he notes--is probably taking time coming to grips with the fact that he was passed by for his dream job (UW head coach).

On the other hand, if you're LaF and you were spurned by Leonhard once, are you going back to the well again? Not a good look.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:32 pm

Depends on the situation. I think Leonard wanted to stay at Wisconsin in hopes of becoming the next HC. And while he had that opportunity, they ultimately decided to go in a different direction.

So if I'm LaFleur I wouldn't hesitate bringing Leonard in if the opportunity came.

But I say that as I'm biased and want Leonard in GB.

2 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:12 pm

Thank goodness. Hopefully when MLF and Barry are fired in 2024 we can get a REAL DC for the Packers

2 points
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packer132's picture

February 22, 2023 at 05:43 pm

The reason that Leonard is sitting out for a year is that Wisconsin is paying him $1 million to NOT coach college or NFL football for a year. His health is fine, though he will have hip surgery. LaFleur wanted Barry to come back, and Leonard had no bearing on the decision. Its doubtful that Leonard would come to Green Bay in 2024 since he turned down the DC job once. He probably will coach somewhere in the NFL though.

2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:57 am

Al,
Always a pleasure reading your articles.

I will share Branch is a very good player & would look good in a Packer jersey. However, I am approaching the 2023 draft this way...

1. The Packers will likely pick up a 2nd first round draft choice, and with some luck (I already see the Jets playing games with Carr to lessen any draft capital for Rodgers) maybe a 2nd round pick. Most likely that extra first round pick will be either #7 (Raiders), or #13 (Jets). With the Packers already having the #15 they will be able to draft 2 very talented players.
2. There are only 3 players I really want with those two first round picks who 'may' have a chance to be available when the Packers draft. Brian Branch (Safety), Quentin Johnston (WR), and Tyree Wilson (Edge). There is a chance all of them will be gone before the Packers turn arrives.

Tough decisions as there are huge needs at all three positions. I rate them pretty equal but I look first at who may most likely be available at #15, and work backwards in determining who I'd try taking with either #7, or the #13 pick.

I personally place a premium on the front 7, and being able to put pressure on the QB over the back-end. Just my preference! I'd rather be aggressive than reactionary. With Gary injured the Pack could use a pass rushing demon with huge upside and Tyree at 6'7" and 275 lbs has massive upside. I'd take Tyree over Branch & hope Branch is still available at #15.

Quentin Johnston is the #1 WR in the draft and my favorite. Very physical at 6'5" with speed. He would be the missing link at WR and supplement our young WR's rounding out a very good receiving corps. Quentin would be a godsend to Jordan Love and this group of skilled players would be together for years. I'd take Johnston over Branch.

It is a toss up for me whether I'd take Tyree, or Johnston with the first pick if they are even available at all as I know the other will most likely not be there at #15. At best I am guessing the Packers only get one of these three. If they get two I will be ecstatic!

Separately, should the Packers get that extra 2nd round pick it is my big hope they can secure one of the top TE's such as Kincaid, Musgrave, or Mayer. If not maybe get a LaPort, or Darnell Washington possibly late #2, or in round #3.

1 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:17 pm

I’d be overjoyed with two second round picks for Rodgers.
I’d also love to see the Packers trade 15 for two second round picks.
I’d also be fine if some were in the 2024 draft, but think of how great it would be to have five second round picks this year!

2 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 22, 2023 at 07:32 pm

One national guy says he doesn't think the Raiders would give up the 7th overall pick to get Rodgers but would probably do a 2nd and 4th this year with a conditional 1st next year that would drop to a 3rd or 4th if he doesn't play in 2024. That makes sense to me. Maybe they get lucky and McDaniels fractures the team and they still stink.

0 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:26 pm

I think we could only get Tyree Wilson with Las Vegas's #7 pick. I like him a lot too (he's outstanding in run D), but he will not make it out of the top 10. If Seattle or Detroit don't get him then Atlanta or Philly will.

Assuming we don't pick in the top 10, I have two first-round preferences at edge rusher: Lukas Van Ness of Iowa and Felix Anudike Uzomah. Van Ness has high-end physical upside but not much experience, but his versatility, pure power, and athleticism are incredible. With the right coaching, he could be a DPOY contender.

FAU is incredibly disruptive, having great speed and bend. He has almost an intangible quality to get to the QB - he can bull rush, speed rush, shift to the inside, force fumbles.

I don't think Johnston lasts past pick 12, personally - Houston will probably want him for Bryce Young (or whoever their QB is). If he is available when we're picking, I would take him in a heartbeat. Mayer also probably won't last past round 1 either, although we may be able to get him in a round 1 trade down scenario.

Dalton Kincaid is being mocked in the first round a lot of the time, so we would probably have to draft him there or trade into the very early second round if we want him. LaPorta cannot block, so I doubt the Packers target him.

For safety I like Branch, although I would honestly invest heavily in TE and Edge this year since those are the best position groups in this draft. Next year's safety class is a lot better, but I would still use a round 2 pick to get either Jordan Battle of Alabama or JL Skinner of Boise St (the latter being my favorite).

If we don't get Johnston, I would target Tennessee's Cedric Tillman in round 2. He is a guy who just screams "Packers Receiver" to me. He has all the physical profiles, he is good downfield and as a possession target, and I would love to have a trio of Watson, Tillman, and Doubs. Jalin Hyatt is also another interesting slot option that could amplify our crossing route and downfield attack. He probably goes in the late-first to very early second round.

0 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 23, 2023 at 09:46 am

Packy,
Always enjoy your draft analysis & thoughts. Most of the time I agree with your assessments including what you posted above.

I agree to get one of the top 3 TE's (move TE's) the Packers will need to draft in round 1, or it has to be within first 2 or 3 picks in round 2. Kincaid, Mayer, and Musgrave will be gone by about #35 or 36. I love Kincaid as a move TE. However, the Packers used Lazard much like a TE. Where the Packers would benefit would be getting a hybrid TE who is a combination of a move & inline TE. Mayer would replace Lazard and be an upgrade. The Packers need that TE who can make those tough contested catches in the middle.

My preference is getting a TE in early 2nd round due to a trade up, but keep your first round pick(s) for guys like Johnston, Tyree, or Branch. I believe Mayer unfortunately will go in round 1 likely in the 15 - 20 range. Something the Packers are going to have to really think about.

Where my opinion strays from yours is at WR with a guy like Cedric Tillman, or Jalin Hyatt. If you want a slightly smaller & slightly faster Lazard you draft Tillman, but again Mayer would be the much better player. Nothing dynamic about Cedric and most likely available in round 3 somewhere. Maybe even later in round 3, so no need to use a #2 on him. I'd say the same thing about Rashee Rice. Nothing remarkable with pedestrian speed and just possession type #3 receivers.

Jalen Hyatt doesn't impress me that much and I think he is over-hyped and likely will end up being over drafted in round 1, or by mid-second round. He is very slender with incredible 4.31 speed but only 180 lbs. He will periodically flash with a big gainer when wide open, but doesn't make contested catches. He isn't physical and a good physical CB will neutralize him at line of scrimmage. Jalin is essentially a straight line speed guy. I'd say the Packers already have 2 WR's with his speed (Melton & Watson), and Watson much bigger & more physical.

I'd argue what the Packers really need at WR is Johnston hands down. He is big in height & weight with good speed. He is also very physical who will make those contested catches. He is going to win most of those contested high point passes. Oh yea, he could be gone way before the Packers draft. Darn!

The Packers already have several speed demons at WR. They have the do it all possession WR's in guys like Doubs, and maybe Toure. What the Packers need & don't have is a physical & talented Inline/Move TE like say Mayer. This is what makes Mayer so attractive being that hybrid TE. The other kind of WR the Packers do not have is that quick & twitchy slot WR like you would have in Jay Flowers, Nathaniel Dell, Josh Downs, or a Parker Washington.

Just my thoughts nothing more! Love reading your draft thoughts. The more I think about Mayer once again he is creeping up my draft board because of what he brings. With Mayer the Packers can let Lazard go & save his salary and actually upgrade at TE, while replacing Lazard the WR.

Give me Quentin Johnston at WR & Mayer (or Kincaid) at TE and I'd be a very happy fellow....though no doubt not nearly as happy as Jordan Love!

0 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:46 pm

That Jim Leonard is interested in becoming an NFL DC, interviewing in Philly, two years after MLF offered him a huge K after two days and many hours of interviews where both hit it off, is all I need to know about MLF retaining Barry Ball.

He is incompetent. And kinda thick headed. How could he sour on talking with Leonard now, with Barry so obviously a hiring mistake?

Drayton 2.0.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:59 pm

Maybe Leonard is the one who didn’t want LaFleur and still doesn’t.

7 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:25 pm

You are probably correct. MLF would have to initiate the contact with JL. I wonder if he did?

0 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:26 pm

Why is no one talking about the offensive coordinator. He sucked. He is a jumped-up o-line coach, (admittedly pretty decent in that role). The offense was not good.

3 points
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dobber's picture

February 22, 2023 at 01:37 pm

Because what we saw on the field with Stenavich as OC is what we saw most of 2021 with Hackett as OC...minus Adams, of course.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:03 pm

MLF is effectively the coordinator. Stenovich his assistant. We should talk more, because, as Dobber notes, while there were issues, the O was an Adams-less version of 2021 plus rookies. The Rodgers issue is just distracting from deeper problems.

2 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 12:51 pm

Hot damn, Al!!! I love all of this.

Couldn't agree more on Branch. I'm there 100% if he's available to us. EDGE is our #1 need, our #2 need... but, that could just as easily be S or TE. Depending upon how things play out in the trade/FA department, OT might be another to addd into that mix. Branch is a clear favorite in my eyes.

The problem is our pass rush. A weak pass rush can hurt any DB/Safety's performance.

As things stand, Gutekunst will have to hit that EDGE position hard, without knowing Gary's prognosis.

Aaron Jones? Glad to have him with some cap relief built in. While he's on the older side for RB, he's experienced AF and went underutilized for the majority of his career.

Love the Love. I've been saying much the same for years here. Switching QB1 in Green Bay to Jordan Love really ought to shine a big light on what Matt LaFleur brings to this Packers team, like we've never seen before.

I'm leaning more confident LaFleur can rectify the leadership collapse realized with AR under C, who always seemed to want to do whatever AR wished nearly 100% of the time. That had to have been one hell of a challenge to handle, and LaFleur chose wrong in his tact. I think his admiration for Rodgers' physical gifts blinded him to the compromising of his own position as our HC. He caved, deferred, gave up,.. how ever one characterizes what occurred, to his own and his team's detriment.

As for who's next? Kenny Clark is a great choice. Hoping we add another top 5-Tech, true DE. There are a number of good ones who may be within reach. Gary always needed someone equal or better opposite, and now's the time to make that happen. Twice would be even better. We need the depth there, and Preston Smith may have worn out his welcome.

4 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 22, 2023 at 02:32 pm

How about a draft double-dip?
WRs: 15 Quentin Johnston, 45 AT Perry
S: 15 Brian Branch, 45 Jammie Robinson
OL: 15 O’Cyrus Torrence, 45 Dawand Jones
DL/ED: 15 Lukas VanEss, 45 Gervon Dexter
TE: 15 Dalton Kincaid, 45 Sam LaPorta

There’s something to be said for getting “a true fix” out of a draft.

0 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 05:44 pm

PEO, that’s what I’m talkin’ about!

So many great players where we need ‘em. Working a trade or … 2… or 3 (?) could net us a bunch of them.

Glad you brought up WR too, as adding another top talent there should be on the Packers radar.

I like Savage, and feel he suffered some from Barry’s use of him, compounded by our loss of pass rush. 3 good Safeties seems the right number, and it will be interesting to see how they fill those positions.

Figure, EDGE was a need even had Gary not been injured. Two of ‘em! As things stand now? Two of them in our first 3 or 4 selections would have some merit. I wouldn’t count on Gary being anything close to what he was until maybe next season if everything goes right. Anything more, sooner, would be a huge bonus. The position group here is considered deep.

Dynamic TEs in this class to be had. Still wishing we nabbed Chig Okonkwo last year. That one still stings a bit. A doubler for sure!

0 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 03:50 pm

What I find unusual in all of this, Al, is many of our “need” positions in April’s draft would benefit from adding two each:
S
EDGE
OT
TE

I think it’s safe to say Gutekunst taps at least one player at each of the above positions. Without question, there are some exciting players to be had.

I wish we had some way to get more top selections. Hmmm…

1 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 03:50 pm

Doubler. Might as well add that our true cap hell requires moves made immediately to chill it TF out. It’s gotten hot in here through years of questionable all-inish cap (mis)management. We’ re now seeing those tough cuts we all anticipated starting to hit.

Amos gone. Savage… salvageable?
Gary rehabbing ACL. Kingsley Enagbare?
Big dog gone. Bobby gone.
Bakhtiari a trade piece? Yosh Nijman?

Early looks (for me) into position group depth in 2023’s draft class appear to be:
1. EDGE
2. DL
3. WR
4. OT

Want a good TE? Hope like crazy Gutekunst & his Personnel Department can get their R3 shizz together. Probably can’t wait much past that with our needs there. At least TE appears to be far & away better as a class than last year. Especially early, Day 1-2.

1 points
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stockholder's picture

February 23, 2023 at 06:54 am

Won't do any good to draft a safety,
if you can't rush.
P. Smith is aging and Gary is hurt.
Need a third choice at edge again.

1 points
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EnemyTerritory's picture

February 22, 2023 at 04:37 pm

My prognostication for 2023 is that when all is said and done and the signs emerge from the zone of darkness is that….the smoke from the holy chapel will be green and gold. There will be no dead cap hit this year. (1)…QB 12 loves the attention. It’s good for his brand. (2) where else can a player run a franchise? (3) the HOF stage isn’t big enough for 12x2 in the same year. (4). Heard this from Florio on my local sports station which is an intriguing take….ifQB12 goes elsewhere and doesn’t put the new team into or win the Super Bowl the narrative may change from a HOF QB whose franchise never gave him enough to a QB who never did enough to win the big game (aka the NFCCG v Tampa and SF). This franchise will have yet another off season of drama in 24 following at best a first round playoff exit.

1 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:35 pm

In Florio’s dreams. He knows AR playing in GB in 2023 would kill the Packers financially, empirically from a personnel standpoint, and is simply not sustainable.

Rodgers doesn’t have a no-trade clause. ICGAF what darkness reveals.

Florio can suck it.

2 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

February 22, 2023 at 09:48 pm

We needed Bob McGinn to burst into that interview from off-camera, hit Florio over the head with a folding chair, flex for the camera, and let out his best Randy Savage "OHHH YEAH!"

3 points
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greengold's picture

February 22, 2023 at 11:11 pm

Awwww yeah, boiiiiii!!!!!! Lol.

I mean, really. What a joke. Rodgers coming back without Big Dog? Without Bobby? Without Crosby?

Florio’s a douchenozzle.

0 points
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jaxpackfan's picture

February 23, 2023 at 06:36 am

So from reading the articles, Clark, Bak and possibly Alexander are prime candidates for restructured contracts. If that happened and AR did not redo his that would be a complete disgrace.

1 points
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stockholder's picture

February 23, 2023 at 06:47 am

IMO it's easier to trade Bahk.
You then keep everyone but Amos.
And as long as BAhk was injured.
Somebody will take his place.

0 points
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