Packers Vs. Panthers: First Impressions
My immediate thoughts on the Packers - Panthers game without the benefit of a re-watch.
...
Aaron Rodgers returns and Davante Adams limps off the field immediately following the first play of the game. I mean, yeah.
The Packers are using Morgan Burnett in the slot early due to their lack fo cornerbacks. Have to think that's a better alternative than Jermaine Whitehead.
Aaron Rodgers is picking right back up where he left off on Oct. 15, and Davante Adams now has the most receiving touchdowns in the NFL since the start of the 2016 season.
Adams is the first Packers receiver to have double-digit touchdown receptions in back-to-back seasons since Antonio Freeman did it in 1997 and 1998.
They need to just start rewarding opposing teams first downs on third down whenever they're playing the Packers.
This defense becoming confused before the snap is becoming a weekly trend, it's honestly incredible.
The Packers' defense forcing a three-and-out after a rare Aaron Rodgers interception is, well, unexpected. But also huge.
And, that's why Randall Cobb gets paid.
That was probably the final stage in Aaron Rodgers' rehab process: falling on the right shoulder. So far, so good.
First-half comparison: Aaron Rodgers was 14-of-22 for 145 yards and 2 interceptions in his return from a left collarbone injury against the Bears in 2013. Significant improvements four years later -- after a broken collarbone in his THROWING shoulder.
It took until the first play of the second half for a Panthers wide receiver to have a catch. These cornerbacks have been doing their job.
Thomas Davis isn't a dirty player, but that hit was extremely unnecessary. Davante Adams got destroyed.
What is a catch?
Julius Peppers may have ended the Packers' season the same way Aaron Rodgers ended Peppers' Bears' season four years ago.
There's a pulse in Carolina -- and it's coming from the visitors.
This is specifically why I said Julius Peppers "may have" ended the Packers' season earlier. Nothing is set in stone in the NFL.
So, that's that.
__________________________
Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].
Comments (188)
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 03:28 pm
http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cblbYs2sCT
ollie418
December 17, 2017 at 03:33 pm
Don't post that BULLSHIT!
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 03:35 pm
Request denied......it isn't bullshit.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 03:40 pm
That sums up the season and the pitiful showing in this game. Thanks, Since '61
ollie418
December 17, 2017 at 06:57 pm
I stand corrected my friend
ollie418
December 17, 2017 at 03:29 pm
Fire Capers, please! Can't win with him and the Packers D. Receivers are wide open ALL day long. Brutal!
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 03:34 pm
I'm all for firing Capers but this was a team loss. 4 turnovers ain't gonna get it done.
ShanghaiKid
December 17, 2017 at 03:40 pm
Capers D didn’t cough the ball up 4 times. That’s on the O, although Capers does need to go.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 03:44 pm
Capers defense gave up 3 long TD drives that had nothing to with the TOs.
Opening Panther drive 75 yards TD
A 73 yard drive TD
75 yard TD drive right after the Packers made it 24-17.
TOs did not help but god forbid this defense makes a stop in a big game or when we're trying to make a comeback.
Same problem for 7 seasons. Fire Capers and the entire D staff.
Thanks, Since '61
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 03:58 pm
That's why Capers needs to go.
jeremyjjbrown
December 17, 2017 at 04:08 pm
The only players fooled by Capers fancy coverage disguises are wearing Green and Gold.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:21 pm
"The only players fooled by Capers fancy coverage disguises are wearing Green and Gold."
This point is so outstanding, I felt it needed to be highlighted again. Fantastic comment, Jeremy.
I don't have anything much to add. Except that it has been that way for at least 5 years through a whole bunch of roster turnover.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 06:00 pm
Agree to the point where we only have 10 men on the field. Thanks, Since '61
al bundy
December 17, 2017 at 09:00 pm
U my friend got that right. Funny Perry who I think is a bum, played great last year to get da money and didn't hear hisbnamenin the last five games.
al bundy
December 18, 2017 at 01:51 pm
That there is puny. If he actually had an elephant it may have been slightly improved. Is 5heir even one all pro on this d?
TKWorldWide
December 19, 2017 at 12:35 pm
17 likes as of right now, and unlimited "dillies" to boot.
I cannot recall a higher "like" count than that. Well done!
Finwiz
December 19, 2017 at 12:39 pm
I have to say, as sarcastic insults go, that IS fairly exceptional.
chugwater
December 17, 2017 at 06:04 pm
I've always tried to give Capers the benefit of the doubt and while he had respectable years in 2015-2016, they need a new DC.
rdent
December 17, 2017 at 05:06 pm
20 yards in offsides penalties on GB's defense, ugh.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 06:23 pm
Including back to back plays to give a free 1st down!
croatpackfan
December 17, 2017 at 03:58 pm
Remember week ago?
Vikings at Panthers result: 24-31!
And with just 1, not 4 turnover...
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 03:29 pm
Superman played like Clark Kent today. I guess that was not entirely unexpected after such a long lay off. But you're not going to overcome 3 ints that often.
Oh well, on to showing the Vikings that 2017 is not about any 'changing of the guard", it is just an injury blip.
ShanghaiKid
December 17, 2017 at 03:37 pm
Agreed, A-Rod deserves to shoulder a lot of the blame today. Good to have him back, I hope we can somehow beat the Viqueens by 30 next Sunday. GPG!
cuervo
December 17, 2017 at 04:13 pm
Maybe if our offensive guru would have run the ball more, since it was working the few times he did it, our injured QB that is coming off an 8 week layoff wouldn;t have had to throw it 45 times.
Jones runs two times in the first half for 40+ yards and get's one or two handoffs the rest of the game.
Fire MM, and Capers will go with him. That was a crapfilled offensive gameplan.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:26 pm
Oh, I see, Those crappy throws were not on Rodgers. They were really McCarthy's fault.
Got it. Thanks for enlightening me in to how you think. I'll make sure to consider it as I read your future insights.
fthisJack
December 17, 2017 at 06:06 pm
MM ticks me off with the RB. now he's fixated on Williams while his best running back Jones is waiting for 1 or 2 carries a half. they should be rotated possession wise. this whole coaching staff should be under intense scrutiny in the offseason and the same goes for the GM also. get some young blood on this team. these old entitled stagnant minds need to be replaced with fresh thinkers.
Hertel
December 17, 2017 at 07:17 pm
How can you not run with 6 yd's per carry and 14 plus for Jones. Amazing poor coaching when you do not stop running when the team can not stop it. Why? Why? Packer sports reporters never ask these questions. Why can we not cover the TE or RB?
chugwater
December 17, 2017 at 06:06 pm
He didn't say that.
The point is if your RBs are effective, don't have such a pass happy game plan.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 06:38 pm
Sure. Not as pass happy. And that makes MM responsible for the poor throws and poor decisions by AR how?
All three of his picks came inside his first 20 attempts. By the time the Packers totally abandoned the run, the damage had been done.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 06:35 pm
It sounds like AR had a bunch of RPOs and he said the Defense dictated passes mostly. It makes little sense to have a RB rip off a 23 yard gain, then INC, then 20 with 6:06 left in the 2nd quarter, then a pass for one yard, then INC, INC, Punt. Then that back gets a grand total of one more carry the rest of the entire game. Classic MM: this is working, let's not do it anymore. To be sure that it is on MM and not AR, I'll have to wait for the snap counts to see if MM sent Aaron Jones out there enough.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 06:50 pm
Once the Packers fail behind and get into pass mode, you can expect that Jones is not going to see the field much no matter how he's running. At least not yet. Maybe if he works on protection it will change. Or if MM has no other choice. But for now, that's the way it is.
And that's the way it has been dating back to when MM was worried about protecting Favre. It is why Kuhn and Brandon Jackson saw so much time in the backfield despite being charitably described as pedestrian runners.
There is no other rational explanation for the snap distribution at RB. Unless you think that it is rational that MM is a moron that cannot understand what is plainly obvious---that Jones is a better runner than Williams at this stage in their careers.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 18, 2017 at 02:24 am
That's why I specifically mentioned that Jones' 2nd run came with 6:06 left in the 2nd quarter. We were up at the half 14-10. No reason to abandon Aaron Jones. I'm inclined to think that MM is in fact so set in his ways that he loses sight of what actually works. He always seems to realize it after each game, and vows to change, but he never has.
Again, I'll wait to see the snap counts. If Aaron Jones played 20 plus, I'll take that into consideration. I buy that Williams' pass pro, receiving prowess, and toughness against a good front 7 might be reason enough to play him Williams as much, probably a bit more, than Aaron Jones.
Then the coaches need to look at those RPOs and determine if AR made the right choice to seemingly always pass. If so, well and good. If AR is just pass happy, MM might need to rein him in. Other HOF type QBs needed some coaching and reining in.
ollie418
December 17, 2017 at 03:32 pm
Fire Capers, please!
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 03:38 pm
This thinking is....bullshit. Let;s stop denying the ability of the players also....it goes hand in hand.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:12 pm
I'm not going to argue with you, Taryn. So go ahead and reply if you want, but I won't see it.
I will say that while our defensive personnel isn't great, it's better than the schlock we've been seeing since 2011. The unit has underachieved. Capers should have been fired after 2012's debacle.
The end.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:02 pm
At one time after 2010, the CB lineup was Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Davon House, Micah Hyde & Casey Hayward, Capers could not find a way to turn that group into a lock-down pass coverage unit.
So yeah, tell me again about the talent.
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 04:06 pm
You're fixed in on the secondary here...expand your diagnosis to the other ailments.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:37 pm
I listed an example, I've considered much more. I've read the arguments of the "TT sucks" crowd and considered them. I will remain unconvinced until I see what TT's guys can do without Capers. Judging by the performance of Hyde, Hayward and Peppers this year, i think that is a defensible opinion.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:53 pm
The common theme for all 3 of those guys is they went somewhere else, played a different position and all have played better then in GB.
I really question whether Capers knows how and where to play guys. Its been happening for a long time too.
Raji - DE (should have been NT).
Mathews - ILB (2014 worked because he had him playing a hybrid role, not actual ILB, 2015 he had him playing ILB).
Peppers - Played a lot of DT (now plays DE)
Hyde - Played CB/S (plays S with Bills).
So the question are the current players playing out of position now as well? Jones playing safety, should he be ILB like they trained him to be?
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:11 pm
If you ask me, Matthews is an ILB. I think he's be fantastic in that role. He's relentless, instinctive and can play sideline to sideline. For all the talk about him being a great pass rusher, he's not put up double digit sacks that much. In fact, one of his better years in sacks came when he played inside a lot.
And Hyde looked like a Safety to nearly every NFL draft scout/service.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 05:19 pm
I think Mathews needs to be a hybrid ILB. Like 2014. He needs to be one that attacks or spies. Not drops into coverage. If they can do that in 2014, why can't they do it again? His best skill is attacking offenses. Attacking QB's and playing behind the LOS.
But with Capers he has to have him fit his scheme. Not adjusting his scheme to fit the talent of Mathews.
Hyde no doubt was a safety. I will admit last year though without him playing CB, our season would have been much worse.
stockholder
December 17, 2017 at 08:35 pm
Capers has run this defense to long. The 3-4-4- has to go. They don't have the personal to run it right. The vikings could play a better 3-4-4. Most comments can't agree on Mathews. We don't have Raji. We don't have pickett . We don't have Wilkins. And The safeties are getting mixed up in coverage. Nick Perry where are you? It's time to change this. DE - Perry, Clark, -DT, Daniels, -DT , Lowrey De. But If the packers want to win. Draft a ILB that is big, and can Fly. Stick Mathews behind Perry. (Period. Behind Perry! )
Oppy
December 18, 2017 at 11:00 pm
Raji was not a great nose tackle.
Raji got blasted off the ball 2-3 yards with regularity.
Raji's talents would have probably been best used as a DT in a 4-3 scheme.
But Nose tackle? No. Ryan Pickett was the lone stand out NT for the Packers in the last decade.
fthisJack
December 17, 2017 at 06:12 pm
i'm not fixated on the secondary!. the whole defense STINKS! no pass rush again today. LB getting beat in coverage or not holding the edge. secondary blowing coverages that cost TD's. why exactly are you defending any unit on this lame defense or their useless coordinator.
Hertel
December 17, 2017 at 07:19 pm
Good Point!
Gianich
December 18, 2017 at 12:38 pm
Agree!! Look what the Rams did with a new staff able to identify and maximize the players talents. Dom and his staff can't do that , obviously... Plenty of talent on that defense but they just aren't maximizing to become a fine tuned machine. They can even get their guys lined up in the right places pre-snap! That's coaching! Please fire Dom already!!!!
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 04:03 pm
I'm not saying Capers shouldn't go but many a player needs to also. Capers trying to throw shit at the wall to make stick while not knowing how to throw shit at the wall equals shit all over the place except on the wall.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:17 pm
"... but many a player needs to also. "
Which ones? I mean, aside from the bottom 10 guys on the 53 man roster. Debating over those names is an exercise I don't care to discuss due to the inherit stupidity of arguing over the bottom of the roster.
Which guy that were counted on to be a heavy contributor on defense in June needs to go? Let's call those guys King, House, Randall, Burnett, HHCD, Matthews, Perry, Brooks, Martinez, Daniels, Clark & Lowery? Which one of them is so bad that it is not possible their play hasn't been tainted by Capers?
It's not a trick question. Some of the 12 I listed, I might even agree need to go. But that 12 man core is plenty to finish above 20 in overall defense.
chugwater
December 17, 2017 at 06:22 pm
Keep: King, Clark, Daniels, Matthews (renegotiated salary), Lowery, Perry
Everyone else is expendable.
I was hoping in June that Randall, Gunter, or Rollins would blossom. No such luck.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 06:42 pm
Looks to me like Randall has blossomed. No catches by Carolina wide receivers until, what, the second half? Carolina WRs finished with one catch for 19 yards. All the damage was done by TEs and RBs. Might be some responsibility on CBs of course.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 06:53 pm
Yeah, Randall has gone from people nervously whispering that he's playing well to the point where it is kind of missing the obvious to say that he's something other than a good player.
stockholder
December 17, 2017 at 07:40 pm
And Nick called that one right! Capers / packers, have the worse defense in opening drives in ALL the NFL this year.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 07:06 pm
Everyone is expendable to Dom Capers, who is to defensive coordinating what communism is to economics. He is the great equalizer. He takes good talent and drags it down to perform at the lowest common denominator. Like communism, the result is far less total output than would be possible under another system.
Gianich
December 18, 2017 at 12:40 pm
Randall has been consistently getting better each week for the last 10 weeks to a point in which he has been damn near shut down the last few weeks. What games are you watching?? I'd say he developed nicely. Why throw to a covered WR when your slot, RBs and TEs are running wide open in the middle of the field every year since Nick Collins was out. Dom has got to go.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:10 pm
Ugh.
1. Completely expected result. Completely ugly defense. DOM HAS TO BE FIRED. The Packers have had their season end without a Super Bowl every year since 2010. Capers' defense has allowed 37, 45, 23, 28, 26, 41 and 31 points in the games that have ended their season. It's PAST time for a change.
2. Ok, let's look at the draft. I can't root for the Packers to lose next week or @ DET, but I'm about as close as I can be to not being upset if they lose again.
3. We talk about additional help from the draft, and injured players getting healthy, but this is an ANNUAL thing for GB. Groundhog day strikes again.
4. I'm angry right now - so I reserve the right to speak more reasonably later - but I am almost at the point where I'm done hoping the team gets better in the offseason. It's not going to. Not at long as TT is doing the drafting and Dom is the defensive coordinator.
5. Someone, anyone beat the Vikings in the playoffs.
6. MM - YOU RAN THE BALL 13 TIMES. JONES BARELY SAW THE FIELD. WAY TO HELP OUT YOUR INJURED QB.
7. Thomas Davis had better be suspended next week.
8. I hate our defense. Retire TT. Fire MM. Fire Dom. That's it. Rant over. GPG.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 03:53 pm
"7. Thomas Davis had better be suspended next week."
That the he was allowed to continue playing demonstrates the NFL has no real concerns about player safety. Blindside hit that led with the helmet and the guy that made the undoubtedly dirty hit made at least two more plays afterwards that helped shaped the game in his team's favor.
So why shouldn't defenses give up the 15 to knock a player out of the game? They knocked Adams out and their guy got to continue on, making game-changing plays. Don't give me any BS that the NFL is doing all it can for player safety. If I'm a lawyer, that play and thiis game is Exhibit A in the class action suit against the NFL on behalf of every player that loses their mind in their 50s after playing in the NFL.
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:06 pm
An important question is: how do you view Davante Adams from here on? He's had his bell rung hard twice this season...how many other times? I suspect he'll be fine and will play next week, but at some point you have to be thinking about it.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:08 pm
Exactly, Dobber. Sucks for the Packers. But I'm more sick to the stomach for Davante. He deserves his money.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:59 pm
That's a big concern. I don't view NFL players as disposable gladiators performing for my entertainment on Sundays, Adams should be able to play and interact with his grandkids when that time comes. That is my primary concern here, no matter how it impacts the beloved Packers.
Having said that, I trust the concussion protocol. It uses independent specialist and set benchmarks, If the protocol clears him and he wants to play the last 2 games, let him. I would not fault him at all for shutting the season down now, either. He's played great and deserves to go into FA with maximum leverage., He bet on himself and won. Good for him.
My issue is with the league in that they are not doing enough to make sure that protocol is not used. To paraphrase Animal Mother from Full Metal Jacket, They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.
stockholder
December 17, 2017 at 07:52 pm
How did he get up? I have been questioning his toughness since drafted. I No longer can question his toughness after this 2nd hit. just very Cheap shot! The packers have had to many of these over the years. This is one time I would have retaliated like a pitcher in baseball. Hit my guy. You hit them back dirty. It's time someone teaches our players how to take out their team leaders.
lou
December 17, 2017 at 04:25 pm
Davis should have been ejected, that unless the rules have changed should be under the discretion of the Official throwing the flag and this was obvious enough (blind side - lead with the helmet). Not only should Davis be suspended but the Official as well. They need a "targeting rule" like college football where they are immediately ejected instead of waiting for a 2nd unessesary roughness to eject a player. With that rule in place and starting to suspend Officials you will see a huge reduction of "cheap hits", guaranteed. You are right on Hank, it is BS on how much they care about their players.
fthisJack
December 17, 2017 at 06:26 pm
absolutely Hank. those helmet to helmet are career threatening and if the league doesn't stiffing the penalty on the cheap shots, it will continue. lots of lip service from the league about player safety and then they allow this goon to keep playing when he concussed an opposing player. my view is that the perpetrator should be out as long as the victim. you would see helmet to helmet shots go down considerably.
rdent
December 17, 2017 at 05:35 pm
Hank,I agree. I was furious when I saw that hit. If the NFL is really serious about player saftey they need to change that rule by next season. Obviously these players aren't "getting it" with the rule as it is now. Starting next year, Thomas Davis should have been ejected from the game and suspended 2 games minimum. No appeals. And punishment should increase with another incident. The NFL and Goodell are eager to suspend E. Elliot for example and others 4-6 games for off field incidents but give a slap on the wrist for on field incidents that injure players. That has to change.
fthisJack
December 17, 2017 at 06:30 pm
it was clearly a cheap shot so why do it and then act like you didn't mean it??? hypocrite!
OrganLeroy
December 17, 2017 at 07:02 pm
Who cares if he was upset, watch it again, he raises up and jumps into Adams head helmet to helmet, he had more than enough time to adjust his hit to the mid section or shoulder, he needs to be suspended 3 games! These Moron officials only eject players for fighting, they think that's more dangerous than a helmet to helmet hit at 20 mph.
stockholder
December 17, 2017 at 07:43 pm
Guy a great actor. 2nd time this year for him.
rdent
December 18, 2017 at 06:29 am
2nd time this year for him. Stockholder, thank you for pointing that out. This is exactly what I meant when I said these players aren't "getting it" and that rule has to change. Once is bad, twice is inexcusable, 2nd offense should result in ejection and a 2-4 game suspension, no exceptions.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 04:10 pm
"but I am almost at the point where I'm done hoping the team gets better in the offseason. It's not going to."
I completely understand your feelings here BM. After watching Thompson continue to draft players for SIX YEARS to fix a defense that's always ranked near the bottom is disheartening. This team has FAR to many holes to hope and wait for Thompson's draft and develop approach to work.
Why in the world does McCarthy not continue to give Aaron Jones the ball after running for 43 yards in 2 carries. I like Williams but after watching Jones BURST through a hole watching Williams is like watching a turtle race.
WTF is a catch? WAY to go NFL!!!!
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:03 pm
"WTF is a catch? WAY to go NFL!!!!"
Someone needs to tell Allison that if he landed on his ass his fumble would've been ruled an incomplete pass. Apparently that confuses officials.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 05:19 pm
LOL...Well said dobber!
splitpea1
December 17, 2017 at 04:03 pm
Point #6 is spot on. And we need a TE in the worst way.
No use in complaining about the defense any more--you just have to shake your head and wonder why a change wasn't made much, much sooner. Same confusion in the secondary, and this time we gave up two first downs on pre-snap penalties.
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:08 pm
The idea that a defender can jump and not have a chance to get back because all an OL has to do is stand up and point at him is ridiculous. I know that #12 has made a living on this for years, but it unbalances the game even more.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:16 pm
I like that rule actually... as long as the OL doesn't move, they have the chance to get back onsides. It's just that our defenders are so slow they can't do that... ;)
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:21 pm
At one point, the OT reached out and touched Daniels on the head. That's not the spirit of the rule. The spirit of the rule is to prevent OL from being called for false starts by defenders jumping into the neutral zone.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:38 pm
True. But how do you police that difference though?
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 05:31 pm
It used to be that OL actually went to the effort of acting like they were responding to the defensive player and acting as if the play were starting.
Putting your hand on the defensive player's helmet and saying "boop!" shouldn't count.
Rick-in-WA
December 17, 2017 at 04:08 pm
The running stats I am seeing say GB had 19 att for 120 yrs...where are you seeing ONLY 9 carries???
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:09 pm
RB carries.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:10 pm
Thanks for catching this. I've edited it: Not including scrambles, it was 13 carries total. 10 for Williams (3.0 ypc) and 3 for Jones (15 ypc). Still ugly.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:11 pm
1. agreed!
2. Honestly they are looking at around 15-20 for draft picks. Winning on losing the last couple of games aren't going to change their drafts lot a ton. But the higher the better.
3. Unfortunately it is an annual thing. I have no idea.
4. you have the right to...
5. My number 1 wish!
6. I don't get that. But I have no idea how many times Rodgers changed the play. There was a number of times, you could see he threw it when it was a called run. Can't blame McCarthy entirely for that.
7. That was BULLSHIT!!! The NFL has to add a Targeting rule. That is the 2nd time this season that Adams was hit and the LB should have been ejected. Sorry but if Adams doesn't go out who knows what happens in this game.
8. 3/4 scheme is fine, Just need someone different calling it. MM is fine IMO. I'd like to see a different GM, and new Defensive Coordinator.
Go Pack Go!
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:15 pm
RE: Point 4 and 8 -
I've already cooled off some. Yeah. MM can stay. But TT and DC HAVE TO GO.
Of course it's my right. I'm (in a very small way) bankrolling the NFL.... ;)
cuervo
December 17, 2017 at 04:19 pm
1
Mojo
December 17, 2017 at 06:11 pm
I'm definitely on board with #5. It's my chief motivation for watching the league for the rest of this year.
fthisJack
December 17, 2017 at 06:18 pm
Jones rushed 3 times for 47 yards. how does he only get 3 carries????????? MM is dumber than he looks and he can follow Capers out the door!
Finwiz
December 18, 2017 at 12:41 pm
What I think is REALLY hilarious is the fact that only three out of 12 writers on this site actually picked Carolina to win. Goes to show how knowledgeable these jack wagons are around here. Sorry guys, but for the most part, I never read the articles, I go to the comments because they are more insightful than most of the writing. I read about 25% of the editorial content.
This team had no business being in the playoffs, let alone contending. I agree with your point 8 - I also HATE this defense. It literally turns into a joke just to watch them. Totally pathetic stuff. just sit there and watch the offense drive up/down the field in either direction.
It's been obvious Capers should have been gone 5 years ago, and for sure after last year, yet nothing changed. My bet is, unless he retires he won't be let go this year either. He's managed to convince McCarthy and TT that ALL the players are the fault of the defensive problems, and none of his doing. He must be one heck of a salesman.
ollie418
December 17, 2017 at 03:34 pm
Fire Capers, please!
Wenis
December 17, 2017 at 03:35 pm
Mashed Potatoe Mike strikes again. No clue on clock management, only 9 (yes that's correct) rushing attempts the entire game. Rodgers was way off most likely due to injury rust but all 3 of his int's the receivers had the coverages beat.
The season is OVAH but the injury bug will find a way into this locker room for sure. The 3 stooges will all be back in 2018.
ShanghaiKid
December 17, 2017 at 03:45 pm
It’s pretty incredible MM only ran 9 times after they ran ball pretty effectively when A-Rod was gone, the conclusion has to be that 12 changes up at the line.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 04:01 pm
Doubtful. McCarthy is an idiot. Aaaron Jones runs for 43 yards in 2 carries and we don't see him carry the ball again. What? Hello!!!
McCarthy could have the Ahman Green in the backfield and still run 9 times. He CAN'T help himself.
#FIRE MCCARTHY
#FIRE THOMPSON
#FIRE CAPERS
and #REPLACE MURPHY if it isn't done.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 04:05 pm
"Doubtful. McCarthy is an idiot. Aaaron Jones runs for 43 yards in 2 carries and we don't see him carry the ball again. What? Hello!!!"
It's about pass protection. Jones is not good at it. Williams is much better.
You are welcome to disagree with the choice. Just understand that you're advocating putting Rodgers at greater risk. And own that point of view.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 05:23 pm
Your absolutely right about that Hank, Williams is better in pass protection. But most of the game it wasn't at a point it was out of hand so I thought they could have used Jones more than they did. I really like Williams. It would be nice if they could find a way to put BOTH on the field.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:58 pm
I certainly agree with you there. I was looking for better run/pass balance and more use of Jones coming into today than they ended up showing.
I just don't think it rises to the level of MM being an idiot, per se. This is where I think the poor Packer defense puts it into MM's head that every game will be a shootout. So where MM is an idiot is in keeping Capers around, which puts his head into "shootout" mode as a playcaller. I guess I'm saying that I get why his playcalling reflects that every possession is precious and should lean on Rodgers. But I don't get why he doesn't recognize that it is his own choice for DC that is putting him in that place.
fthisJack
December 18, 2017 at 12:43 pm
then run the ball! and don't put Rodgers at risk. very simple. Jones is dangerous every time he touches it. or....where is a simple dump off to the running back? that is lost in this offense.
Rick-in-WA
December 17, 2017 at 04:17 pm
The running stats I am seeing say GB had 19 att (ok, incl AR scrambles) for 120 yrs...where are you seeing ONLY 9 carries???
Added:
CAR YDS AVG
Aaron Jones 3 47 15.7
Aaron Rodgers 6 43 7.2
Jamaal Williams 10 30 3
carlos
December 17, 2017 at 03:37 pm
It shouldn’t have been, but it was so close....I’m angry too.
pooch
December 17, 2017 at 03:40 pm
Its so sad how Packer brass are letting opportunity slip sliding away
EdsLaces
December 17, 2017 at 03:47 pm
Worst defensive play I have seen from us in a long time. I'm so pissed I threw on my headphones and went for a run ...n I'm kinda tipsy...
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 03:49 pm
I'm glad you went on a run. Very healthy. But dude, we've been seeing this quality of defensive play since 2011... how was this significantly worse? It was IMO extremely expected...
croatpackfan
December 17, 2017 at 04:03 pm
How many points Vikings let to Panthers week ago? And had only one TO...
First you need to breath. Then switch on your brain. Than start to spit if you have why...
EdsLaces
December 17, 2017 at 04:34 pm
Cause that ball was incomplete? Lol
carlos
December 17, 2017 at 03:50 pm
Way ,way too many issues to be a playoff team. Defense always looks confused. I agree we should’ve ran the ball more. Nothing in football to get excited about for awhile unless some changes start happening and, of course, the draft. That’s a long way off unfortunately.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 03:53 pm
This game just proved what we already knew. Our defense cannot play competitively against a playoff caliber team. 3 long TD drives by Carolina and the defense had no pass rush, lousy tackling, and looked too slow with receivers wide open.
The defense is a mess and it's on Capers and the quality of players. Daniels nothing again. CM3 looks old and slow. Total pre-snap confusion on too many plays. Dix continues to look completely lost out there.
After Rodgers took a hit and landed on his shoulder during the first drive in the 3rd he under threw an open Cobb and it resulted in a pick. Later he under threw Jordy and another pick. Those plays should have been TDs if not long gainers at least. I think Rodgers shoulder may have too sore to make those throws. In any case the picks did not help, especially with our 3 ring circus of a defense.
OL failed to step up and protect Rodgers especially late in the game. Another poor showing in a big game. After Rodgers, Williams, and Davanta Adams this team needs a lot of work. The level of play is just not there.
Thanks, Since '61
TarynsEyes
December 17, 2017 at 03:58 pm
Agree Since 61'......bet if I posted this it's thumbs down galore. : )
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 05:24 pm
No Taryn,
You have a good base of knowledge about football. That's not why you get downvoted. You get downvoted because you never are open to conversation on your viewpoints. You don't ever change them, you're not willing to be collegial with someone while agreeing to disagree, and you're not open to learning from others who possibly have different points of view. Then you get snarky and turn into somewhat of a martyr. It's quite offputting.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:26 pm
Too bad I cannot upvote Bearmeat x1000 for that one post.
jeremyjjbrown
December 17, 2017 at 09:07 pm
I'll add that Taryn uses Grammer so abyssal that many have problems even gaining a minimum understanding of whatever the point is. I'm not the Grammer police here to nitpick, but if Taryn doesn't care enough to craft something legible, why should anyone like it?
fthisJack
December 18, 2017 at 12:48 pm
i'll give you a thumbs down for this whiney comment. lol.
barutanseijin
December 17, 2017 at 11:25 pm
TT's O line gambles have blown up in his face. I think that's where the season was lost. It's past time for him to go.
carlos
December 17, 2017 at 03:54 pm
I wish I was tipsy. Yes, it was expected. It’s the hope and a prayer that keeps me excited. I feel like a ballon that had all its air let out.
Slim11
December 17, 2017 at 03:55 pm
Didn't expect to see the game...wish I hadn't.
I expected Rodgers to have some issues throwing the ball after eight weeks off. I have to wonder if it's arm strength as opposed to rust. Some of his passes, incompletions AND interceptions, looked short to me.
Rodgers' presence did seem to make the run game more effective. Spriggs still can't pass block consistently. The defense did come up with some stops but not enough.
Mathematically, GB is still alive. Realistically, I don't expect a post-season appearance for the Packers.
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:01 pm
"I expected Rodgers to have some issues throwing the ball after eight weeks off. I have to wonder if it's arm strength as opposed to rust. Some of his passes, incompletions AND interceptions, looked short to me."
I wondered exactly the same thing.
Commentators said that his physical conditioning was supposedly improved, but you can't build or maintain strength in that shoulder if you can't stress it.
NickPerry
December 18, 2017 at 05:59 am
Excellent dobber, I think that's exactly what it was. The 2nd and 3rd interceptions were perfect examples where the strength just wasn't there. Had that been week 5 he'd have completed both of those passes for TD's. Coming back after 8 weeks with limited work strengthening his shoulder he was short.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:30 pm
Early on, Rodgers was high and outside, at least on a couple.
I think it is all about the long layoff. I hope the Packers don't shut him down so we can be sure. The answer could shape the offseason focus.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 07:13 pm
Yes, I want to watch Rodgers play. Whenever I can. Especially this week. I would HATE to send the tacit signal to the Vikings that the Packers are scared of the "risk" of playing them.
Finwiz
December 18, 2017 at 12:47 pm
Rodgers should be shutdown at this point to fully heal. He won't be 100% for another 3-4 months, and there's no hope of the playoffs. He doesn't need to be in there. Let Hundley play and be the punching bag. I thought we had a great pass blocking O-line, it looks like we've slipped in a big way.
fthisJack
December 18, 2017 at 12:54 pm
the risk of playing Rodgers is not worth the reward. its in GB and its going to be COLD and i don't want to see him hurt again. the season is over so play Hundley and let the chips fall where they may.
EdsLaces
December 17, 2017 at 03:57 pm
Just curious I'm what you guys think. Josh Jones carry full coverage insurance ...or liability ?
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:31 pm
The only way I can answer is to see him play under a DC not named Capers.
carlos
December 17, 2017 at 03:58 pm
Sprigs didn’t belong on the field today. At least give him some help.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 07:24 pm
I was encouraged by Spriggs' play for the most part. I thought he held up well for about 2 and a half quarters. When the Carolina pass rushers were able to pin their ears back and rush like hell, he started to break down and then things went off the rails.
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 04:00 pm
It might be hard to believe, but I'd assert the defense played well enough to win today. Note that I didn't say they played WELL, but the offense did them no favors with 3 TOs (the 4th at the end of the game did little to impact how the defense played). This was a winnable game that got away from them.
And now I'll have to be exposed to Cam's "fancy hats" and cheesy ass grin until someone slobberknocks it off his face.
croatpackfan
December 17, 2017 at 04:12 pm
I agree dobber. This game was lost by offense and Packers were kept in competition by D and ST...
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 05:21 pm
Dobber - I respectfully disagree. First the defense put the team in an immediate 7-0 hole by letting the Panthers drive 75 yards straight down the field on their first drive of the game.
I will agree that defense played OK for the rest of the first half and enabled Rodgers and the Packers to go into the half with a 14-10 lead. But then they come out for the second half and again another 75 yard TD drive by the Panthers. At the point Rodgers 2nd pick didn't help at all and then the NFL changed the rules on what a catch is again and the Panthers took a 24-14 lead. To me the key was the Packers cut the lead to 24-17 on a 3rd qtr FG. This was the time for a quick stop by the Packers defense or even time to create a turnover. Instead Packers kick off and the defense allows yet another 75 yard TD march right down the field 31-17 Panthers. That put the Packers offense in an obvious passing situation and as we saw the Panthers front ate up the Packers under manned OL in the 4th qtr.
You can say that the Packers TOs cost them the game but the fact is the Panthers scored 10 points off of turnovers. Only one of the TOs gave the Panthers a short field which resulted in yet another NFL version of what a catch is or isn't in the end zone. At that point the Panthers lead 24-14 but the Packers still had time and a chance and made it 24-17. Then came the 3rd 75 yard drive of the game for the Panthers and a 31-17 lead.
My problem is that each long TD drive by the Panthers looked easy. Our defense looked confused, slow and quite frankly not in the same league with the Panthers. In fact it is an insult to other defenses to call the Packers defense a defense. We should just call them a practice squad because that is what they look like when they are on the field against an average offense which is what the Panthers have. We can blame the offense and that's fine because with all the games and seasons that Rodgers has carried this team by himself he is allowed to cost our miserable defense a game, but the reality is that our DC and many of our defensive players just are not good enough to play at a high level in this league. Until we can rely on our defense to hold an opponent to 17 points or less in a big game like today were won't win in the playoffs and we won't see another Lombardi trophy. If it takes firing MM to get rid of Capers and bring an NFL defense to Green Bay then I can be OK with that. As long as we realize that firing Capers is only part of the answer and that the other piece requires us to bring in better players.
Peppers may have been the oldest player on the field today and he outplayed any player that we had on our defense.
It doesn't matter now our season is over. Let Hundley and the second stringers finish out the season maybe we can enjoy a few laughs for next 2 weeks. The fat lady has sung so Send in the clowns. Oh wait we already did, except we call it the Packers defense. Another season wasted thanks to our Mamby-Pamby practice squad defense and a plague of injuries.
Thanks, Since '61
dobber
December 17, 2017 at 05:42 pm
The bottom line--from my perspective--is that the defense kept that game to 31 points. They got gashed on TOP, in part because of the TOs. The long INT thrown downfield to Nelson was essentially a punt. But every time the offense gives the ball away with #12 under center, they give away a shot at points. How many times did the Packers punt today? Twice. How many TOs? Four. That's six drives that didn't turn into points. How many times did Carolina punt today? Four. How many TOs? None.
I have a hard time believing that if they only turn the ball over once that we wouldn't be talking about a completely different game. It's the missed opportunities.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 06:26 pm
Dobber - you may be correct but that wasn't really my point. My point is that we can never, ever go into a game with any degree of confidence that our defense can pick up the offense if necessary. The way the Packers play defense requires Rodgers and the offense to play a perfect game every week and then in the playoffs as well. That can't work and it doesn't.
The defense never gets off the field and never makes a stop when they need to make a stop. Who said that it is automatic that if the offense has a turnover the other team scores. What happened to forcing a 3 and out? What happened to holding the opponent to an FG if the offense commits a TO?
Dobber, you know as well as I do, that we have seen 7 seasons of games like this. All we do when we say the offense made a TO its their fault is make excuses for this pitiful excuse for a defense the Packers have become. It's too long overdue for Capers, his staff and at least some of these players to go, otherwise we are willing to accept giving up 30+ points and 400+ yards per game. It just looks too easy, too often for our opponents to drive the entire field for scores. Every season and every game it's the same story. Time to change the ending. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:32 pm
Excellent point. A true defense steps up when the QB is off, rusty or knocked out or whatever set back the team is burdened by, such as injuries. Any team must rise to the occasion at some point, and this team rarely if ever does.
Pack204
December 17, 2017 at 11:55 pm
Exactly.. this team particularly on d has been the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result... status quo just wont cut it anymore.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 05:43 pm
Dobber,
Normally I agree with much of what you say. But on this one, you are dead wrong. Yeah, the 3 INTs hurt. But a good defense doesn't hemorrhage yards and give up that % of RZ and 3rd down.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 06:22 pm
Bearmeat - my point exactly. I for one have no confidence that our defense can ever make a stop when we need it. I've had it with them. Today is the last straw for me and this mamby-pamby defense. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:26 pm
"... defense played OK for the rest of the first half and enabled Rodgers and the Packers to go into the half with a 14-10 lead. But then they come out for the second half and again another 75 yard TD drive by the Panthers."
And how often have we seen THAT over the past five years?
Something HAS to change.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 07:37 pm
I agree more with Dobber than with Since '61, though not wholeheartedly with either. We forced 4 punts. If you'd have told me that before the game, I would have been confident in a GB win. Still, the defense is still bad, looks confused even when they have the correct number of players on the field, and has some players who don't look all that interested in competing. The cat nearly went flying when Dix didn't play the ball to break up the TD pass to the TE in the back of the endzone, and instead looked at the receiver. We need to sit down with Dix and have a heart felt conversation, if he is healthy.
But maybe we should rename them the PS. That was hilarious, Since '61, and I am stealing that.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:01 pm
Well... Normally I like to say great season, lets reload and go.
But this was not a great season. Way to many injuries and honestly we had the 1 injury we simply couldn't have. The one to Rodgers.
It was great to see Rodgers out there again. He no doubt was rusty. Probably doesn't have his full strength in his throws yet. Had we had a healthy Rodgers he probably hits those throws to Cobb and Nelson, which majorly changes this game. And even after all of that, we almost got to see some serious magic. That onside kick recovery, I thought we were going to score. Only to have it 'fumbled' away.
Sorry but the way the Refs changed the catch to a TD, they should have changed that to an incomplete pass. But whatever... they didn't, so now we are unofficially out of the playoffs for the first time in what 9 years?
I hope in the next 2 weeks we start seeing some young guys playing. I would not play Adams anymore this year. BTW, the NFL has to add a targeting rule. That was BULLSHIT! How Davis was still in that game after that hit was ridiculous.
I hope we see Michael Clark the remaining 2 weeks. Let him learn on the field, and prepare for next year.
Also get Mays on the field. See what he can do. Jones and Williams are really good. But lets see what Mays can bring.
Looking towards the offseason I'd like to see an upgrade on the backup OL. They need help at TE. They could use more WR's.
Defense- its time for a new Coordinator. I have never seen so many miscommunication's and 10 men on the field as I have seen this year. That's all on Capers.
They have some quality players to build with, especially young players. Randall has emerged big time. I like Jones, King, Clark, Martinez. Biegel, Adams hopefully will be able to have impacts in year 2.
They need CB's and pass rushers. I would keep Mathews, but they need to find some explosive pass rushers. Guys who can get around the corner fast. They could use another ILB to go with Martinez. Thomas i still like. They could use a guy that could blitz up the middle.
This season definitely is a let down. Mostly due to the injury to Rodgers. Had he not gotten hurt I no doubt believe this team is somewhere around 10,11,12 wins right now and looking to lock up 1st spot in the playoff race...
Now its time to look at the off season and get the rest of the team shored up for a big time run next year.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 04:21 pm
"Also get Mays on the field. See what he can do. Jones and Williams are really good. But lets see what Mays can bring."
We already did RC.
3 carries...2 fumbles...1 lost fumble... -1 yard
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:24 pm
Yeah, but why not see what he can do when the games are meaningless. What do they have to lose?
McCarthy has been talking about he has looked great in practices. Well why not play him and see if you have anything in him for next year. If not draft another RB late in the year.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 05:45 pm
Yes RC,
But this wasn't even "mostly" a bad season because of ARod getting hurt. It was a bad season mostly because our defense sucks. That has to be made loud and clear.
A good defense and backup QB goes 5-3 at worst in that stretch. NO, DET, BAL, @PIT, TB @CLE, @CHI. Those are crappy teams.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 05:58 pm
Honestly. No matter how our defense played, had our QB been better we probably beat NO, Baltimore and Steelers games could have been wins.
Our offense was handicapped and that killed us in all of those games.
Yes, our defense has been the Achilles heel of our team. And it has to improve! No question. But our QB play and offense was really bad in those stretches.
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:36 pm
Really. Why not? Why tie up a roster spot for an entire year, and make the year end talent evaluation a fruitless exercise? It's pointless.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 04:24 pm
I would LOVE to send a 1st and a 3rd to Denver for Von Miller or something like that. They are in a complete rebuild...
We need a sure bet at OLB. Not another project. And FWIW - I'd say the same thing about CB.
Capers has to go.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:45 pm
Yeah, we all would love that. Unfortunately, that never would happen.
I don't think we need a complete overhaul at CB. Randall has been really, really good since his benching. King, I really like. But you need more then 2 guys. I hope they spend 2 higher (2 picks between rounds 1 and 4) on CB.
I honestly think the greater need is pass rush. They could really use an OLB, ILB, and DL who can rush the QB.
A different scheme and D coordinator may help that too...
How many true blitzes have we seen these last few years? Not many. Capers for whatever reason feels that playing zone coverage, rushing 3-4 is good enough.
I really think we have talent that another coordinator would probably get more out of. But we need more help.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 05:20 pm
I think we need another CB who can play in 2018. So, not a rookie. A Free Agent or a trade.
What we definitely need is an OLB. And that move needs to be drastic and immediate. CM3 needs to have a pay cut. Brooks is done. Fackrell is not a player. Biegel, we just don't know, but he's not a blue chip talent. So we have to moderate our hope there.
I don't agree that we need any DL help. A 5 Tech who can rush the passer is SO rare. Sure, it'd be great. But a front 3 of Daniels, Clark, Lowry with Adams and Dial behind them is pretty good.
I'm assuming Bulaga comes back next year and they hope Spriggs improves or holds down the fort until Bulaga comes back. I'm assuming Patrick or McCray fight for that RG position. Or maybe Evans comes back on another 1 year deal for small money. I was happy with how he played this year.
Nelson to the slot. Cobb either takes a pay cut or is cut. (I'd guess the latter) Adams gets #1 WR money.
Linsley gets a mid level deal.
HHCD gets 1 year to figure it out. Young guys behind him look good. Burnett (as much as I hate to say it), unless TT retires, is as good as gone. There are promising young guys behind him. This screams classic TT release.
Yes, there are holes on the roster. OLB/CB and a HWS WR/TE but realistically, with a QB like ARod, this SHOULD be a title contending team. The fact that it is not is unbelievable. Heads have to roll.
The good news is that missing the playoffs might just be that kick in the nuts that Murphy needs to see. If the right moves are made, this quickly becomes a title contending team again.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 05:48 pm
I agree. We need a CB to come in an start right away. House maybe 'ok', but he was hurt all year so we have no idea how good or bad he actually would be. I would like to see an upgrade.
I still think we need to draft 1-2 high in the draft. Its a position that you really can't have enough of.
Mathews and Perry are a good 1-2. Biegel I think will be much better next year, but not proven. Behind that? Nothing... They have to find 1-2 more guys. Preferably a veteran and a couple of higher draft picks.
DL, they don't need much help, but if they get a new Coordinator, if they switch to a 4-3 they will need new DL.
I think Bulaga comes back. Honestly Spriggs has played ok since coming back. Perhaps another year will help him a ton. Murphy will be back also. He maybe an option as the RG. I really like McCray as our 6th OL. He can play all 5 positions in a pinch. I would like to keep him as the backup, and find a starting RG. But if he is that good at RG, then start him.
Honestly, Cobb has shown more then Nelson. Cobb still gets open, Nelson doesn't. Out of the 2 have Nelson take the paycut. Adams is the number 1, but now you have to question for how long. He just had his 3rd concussion in a year. The last 2 were BAD!!! I think they need to get 1-2 more WR's. Janis is not a WR. Davis is not right now. Clark maybe can be, regardless they need to find 1-2 guys for next year. Preferably with speed.
I'd like to see our entire defense with a new Coordinator. I have seen Clinton-Dix and Jones dropping 35+ yards off the LOS way to much this season.
You are completely right. We have holes, but honestly we just need like 1-2 playmakers and that will change our whole team. We are not that far away, like some believe.
OLB, CB, WR/TE are the top needs IMO. Ohh and a new D coordinator.
Look at the Saints. They nailed their 4 draft picks and are a contending team this year.
We have the ammo in the draft. And our 2nd and 3rd year players should all take big steps next year. We will be right there, as long as QB1 stays healthy.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 06:14 pm
Agreed on all fronts, except I don't think that CM3 and Perry are a good 1/2. They are both OLB #2s getting paid like OLB #1s. Mostly because they are ALWAYS hurt - but also when they're healthy, they haven't taken over enough games.
We need an OLB #1. Badly.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 06:32 pm
Yeah, I think that is their weakest position. Problem with Perry is he is NEVER healthy. When he is, he is really good. But he never plays healthy.
OrganLeroy
December 17, 2017 at 07:17 pm
Exactly right about Perry, I've been in his corner but after 5 years the proof is on the injury report, and he's always on it. Not worth a dime of that contract. At some point you can't keep ignoring a position talent wise when it's supposed to have the best players at that position in a 3/4, OLB. Last year was deep at CB & OLB and Ted made the wrong choice again, should've been Watt in the 1st & still would've gotten a quality CB in the 2nd.
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:38 pm
:What we definitely need is an OLB. And that move needs to be drastic and immediate. CM3 needs to have a pay cut. Brooks is done. Fackrell is not a player. Biegel, we just don't know, but he's not a blue chip talent. So we have to moderate our hope there."
You can say that again. Needs to be said every day until someone gets the message.
CJBauckham
December 17, 2017 at 05:29 pm
Joe Thomas was pretty damn bad in coverage today; I'm ready to move on from him
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:37 pm
" I would LOVE to send a 1st and a 3rd to Denver for Von Miller or something like that. They are in a complete rebuild..."
The one area where I agree with the "TT must go" crowd is that he has not provided 3-4 OLBs as required to make that defense work. Miller would be a step in the right direction and that cost is a no-brainer, to me. Would Denver give him up for that?
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 05:46 pm
Maybe not. But if we made it a 1st and a 2nd, it would STILL be worth it.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 06:07 pm
Yes, it would. With guys like Miller, you pay the price and worry about fitting it into the budget later. He's like Reggie or Charles Woodson.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 07:44 pm
Nice back and forth. I am fine with sitting Adams next week - heck he might not clear concussion protocol anyway. But he needs to play the last game. I want to see him have a good day before we pony up $18M+ signing bonus next March. Even then the concussions scare me.
jeremyjjbrown
December 17, 2017 at 04:12 pm
I'm disgusted with seeing players target an opposing trams player and they just keep playing while the other guy is out for the game and my have life effecting coniquences. I'm so sick of it I am pondering greatly reducing how much football I watch.
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:21 pm
100%...
NFL has to change it to the College Targeting rules. A player that does that needs to be ejected and suspended for the next game. That is the only way they are going to get rid of those head hunting hits.
Completely BS.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 05:28 pm
RC - completely agree. That hit was totally unnecessary. But we're not to see a change like that as long as Goodell is commissioner. We've got 5 years to go at least. Thanks, Since '61
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 06:33 pm
I'm not sure.. I heard that Troy Vincent and others are looking at adapting the Targeting rule this off season.
So it sounds like it maybe in the works.
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:42 pm
There is a very simple test to determine inadvertent vs intentional...at the point of contact, was the player seeing blades of grass or the target he was hitting? Davis failed that test on that hit. So did Trevathan on Adams earlier this year. Both saw grass and did not see the player they were hitting.
Tell defensive players if they want to avoid suspension, they better not see any grass at the point of contact. Eyes up and you'll be fine.
It's so simple.
gary g
December 17, 2017 at 04:14 pm
I feel the reason AR forced those int's is he is watching the game like us. He has to know the defense can't stop anybody and the game rests on his shoulders. Bad coverage plus no pass rush makes for a bad defense.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 05:30 pm
Gary - we don't have a bad defense, we don't have any defense. Just a confused group of players with no sense of urgency and a mamba-pamby attitude. The result is a mamba-pamby practice squad with only 10 men on the field. However, I don't think that group could make a stop if they 15 men on the field. Thanks, Since '61
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:44 pm
That's the same excuses used by Favre.
In the end, Rodgers had the ball in his hands with the chance to tie late. To his credit, it wasn't his turnover then ended that chance. But it was another turnover.
The defense certainly does suck, no doubt. Capers must go. But that doesn't change the failures on the other side today.
gary g
December 17, 2017 at 04:17 pm
AR would take the win less Brown's and make them a playoff contender. We are wasting his final years with TT AND CREW.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 05:34 pm
I could argue that AR is the only player we have that belongs in the NFL. Thanks, Since '61
HankScorpio
December 17, 2017 at 05:45 pm
You'd look like a fool in doing it. But please, feel free to try without looking like a fool.
Bearmeat
December 17, 2017 at 06:12 pm
Cut 61 a break, Hank. He's frustrated. We all are.
I think we have about 3-4 difference makers. We need another on defense at least.
Where we are in trouble is the above average players. We have that in spades on offense: LT, LG, C, WR 1, WR 2. But on defense, we have a 5DT, NT, WILB, SS (Burnett, who will be gone) and Star corner. That's it. And no difference makers.
Not enough.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 06:52 pm
Hank - not to argue, but in the spirit of the holidays and a little fun here goes:
1. QB - IMO Rodgers (HOF)could play for Starr (HOF) anytime anywhere. Just as smart, better arm and better mobility for Rodgers.
2. RBs- Hornung(HOF) and Taylor (HOF) over Williams and Jones anyday.
3. WRs - Dowler and Dale vs. Jordy and Adams. That is a tough one. Dowler had good height and Dale was pretty fast. But I could see Jordy and Adams playing for Lombardi I must admit.
4. TEs - Ron Kramer and Marv Fleming vs. Kendricks and R. Rodgers. To me, it's no contest Kramer and Fleming would play, because of their run blocking and reliable hands. We know that neither Kendricks or R. Rodgers are even decent run blockers.
5. OL - Lombardi's OL was probably the best OL in league history and the reason why Lombardi's offense was as successful as it was. Maybe Bakhtiari would make Lombardi's team as a second stringer. Also, remember that Lombardi's OL has 2 HOFers (Ringo and Gregg) and should have 3 with Jerry Kramer.
6. DL - Willie Davis (HOF), Henry Jordan (HOF) Lionel Aldridge, Ron Kostelnik.
Where would any current Packer DL fit on Lombardi's DL? Maybe Daniels as a second stringer. The others gone.
7. LBs - Nitschke (HOF) and named starting MLB to the NFLs First 50 years team, Dave Robinson (HOF) and Leroy Caffee. Maybe a young CM3 could play for Caffee or be a second stringer, but Lombardi would never keep a player who consistently ran himself out of plays like CM3 does.
8. CBs - Herb Adderley and Bob Jeter. I'm not even going to waste my time with the current Packers CBs. The comparison would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so sad.
9. Safeties - Willie Wood (HOF) and Tom Brown. At the end of last season I could see Dix playing for Brown but based on his play this season he would be chucked by Lombardi. As for Willie Wood the current safeties aren't even close. Wood was never out of position, never. As Wood once said about Lombardi, "He never really said that much to me so I guess I was OK." Willie was OK all the way to the NFL HOF.
Hank let me know if I left anyone out and if you think that I'm still a fool for trying. Thanks, Since '61
9.
HankScorpio
December 18, 2017 at 08:29 am
Relative to their eras, there is little doubt the Lombardi era Packers were one of the best teams in NFL history. But that was not the point you made. It was that nobody besides Rodgers belongs in the NFL. Perhaps I was a bit harsh in my response but that notion is simply inaccurate.
OrganLeroy
December 17, 2017 at 07:20 pm
The Browns actually have a better defense and a lot of talent, their problem is youth and really really bad coaching.
NickPerry
December 17, 2017 at 04:22 pm
..
RCPackerFan
December 17, 2017 at 04:24 pm
..
you tricked me. lol
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 05:34 pm
Good post Nick, I agree. Thanks, Since '61
rdent
December 18, 2017 at 06:39 am
First impressions;
Aaron Rodgers was RUSTY.
Jason Spriggs is terrible.
MM again refused to try to establish a running game. AR 43 yards rushing.
20 yards in offside penalties on the D.
If not shorthanded in the secondary Clinton Dix should be benched.
Josh Jones needs to improve next season.
The time has come to find new talent at WR.
CAG123
December 17, 2017 at 05:52 pm
Draft is a long ways away but Rashaan Evans out of Alabama next to Blake Martinez uhhhh yes please more likely a day 2-3 guy which is even better. Unfortunately we may have to spend another pick on the CB position because Davon House has been injury riddled and awful I do say bring him back for depth though another guy I’m high on but will definitely be a late round selection is MJ Stewart a big physical corner out of UNC. This should definitely put an end to Capers and his fanc smancy packages but I guess the question is who is his replacement? DC don’t leave to become DCs elsewhere unless they’re failed head coaches or old like Wade Phillips.
OrganLeroy
December 17, 2017 at 07:23 pm
Do some research, we don't have to have a failed HC or retread DC, there are plenty of high quality position coaches out there ready to become DC's. We'd have a lot to choose from.
CAG123
December 17, 2017 at 11:35 pm
Position coaches are position coaches for a reason DC bring the whole thing together teams don’t often fail or experience drop offs because their top flight DB coach left.
CAG123
December 17, 2017 at 11:37 pm
Also ask the Rams and Eagles how well failed coaches and DC retreads worked out for them.
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 05:54 pm
MM is as much the problem as Capers or anyone else in charge. Injured QB coming back for first game and as usual decides to totally go away from what has worked over last few weeks. Why does he have to try and prove he is smarter than everyone else. Couldn't watch game but hearing that Jones was used so poorly and Williams apparently not at all, I'm just numb.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 17, 2017 at 08:01 pm
I suspect that Jamaal Williams played a ton of snaps, but many were in pass pro. Aaron Jones is classic MM.
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:02 pm
Another hit on a Packer player. Am I being overly angry that noone on the team is fed up with that. Time to start taking it out on the other side.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 06:29 pm
Tundra - will never happen with your mammy-pamby defense. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 06:42 pm
Certainly not with Capers. Sigh.
OrganLeroy
December 17, 2017 at 07:26 pm
Hey 'Since 61', I like your posts but please come up with something besides 'mamby pamby'.
Qoojo
December 17, 2017 at 07:44 pm
How about Flower child defense since a few come from CA ;)
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 11:19 pm
Sieve defense.
Since'61
December 17, 2017 at 09:24 pm
Why, it worked for Dave Robinson. When he was asked following his HOF induction how he felt about today's defensive play versus when he played he replied, "When I played we didn't play no mamba-pamby football. Coach Lombardi wouldn't allow it. When I played you had to like the taste of blood and half the time it was the taste of my own blood."
Mamby-Pamby works for Dave Robinson, works for me. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
December 17, 2017 at 11:22 pm
Works for me. Allowing your teammates to take shots nearly every weak without retribution is the definition of Mamby-Pamby.
MarkAlan
December 17, 2017 at 06:12 pm
As long as MM is the head coach this is what you'll get, As long as Aaron's there we'll win own share, but they'll never be in the top class
Ustabeayooper
December 17, 2017 at 07:21 pm
When you run the ball 13 times you will lose. This loss is on ARod. We have become a one demensional team. It is easy to blame the defense but when you turn the ball over 4 times you will lose. As long as ARod is on the team we will continue to be a pass only team. This is not a way to the SB. The team is incapable of run/ pass balance as long as ARod is running the show. Until GB decides that success is more important than individual accolades we will not be champions
Qoojo
December 17, 2017 at 07:43 pm
I have a clean the house opinion. Rodgers is the sole reason for any success in the past 5 years. Without rodgers, this is a 4 to 8 win team depending on schedule. I think defensive issues are a combination of poor talent and bad coaching. I think MM gets lazy because Rodgers' talent allows him to get lazy. TT feels no urgency because Rodgers' talent almost guarantee a playoff birth every year.
A playoff birth gives the casual fans hope when it's painfully obvious every year that the defense cannot compete against the top teams. So the team remains profitable.
I doubt if anything will change.
Crackerpacker
December 18, 2017 at 02:58 am
IMO we should put injured players on ir and with the spaces poach as much talent off other teams practice squads as we can. At worst we should improve depth.
Donster
December 18, 2017 at 06:35 am
Well I for one, as many on this board agreed that we would lose this game. We all knew we have no defense. This defense makes ANY QB we face look like an all-pro QB. What surprised me was the fact we were in it until the end.
But the offense deserves some of the blame too. First and foremost, receivers that cannot get open. It reared its ugly head after Adams went out. Jordy really looks like he doesn't have the heart to continue playing. I think he will retire when the season is over. Cobb did okay. Still no tight ends. And MM, knowing he has some running game, doesn't use it. He is so focused on Rodgers being the guy throwing the ball, and continuing to secure MM's job, he can't see the forest through the trees.
I have said for years that Capers and his entire staff has to go. TT needs to go. I'm on the fence on MM. But falling towards the "don't let the screen door hit you on your fat butt on the way out Mike" side. And his entire staff. My biggest fear would be that Murphy would hire one of MM's assistants.
As for players, I believe we have some very good players, Rodgers of course is the franchise. I feel that many of the players on defense would have more success playing for a different DC, and different scheme. TT drafts "the best possible athlete available". Which is TT speak for "I will draft whoever I want, a basketball player with little football experience and make him an all pro". Does he ever study what they have between the ears? I mean Crappers defense it appears is difficult for some of these guys to wrap their heads around. That feeds TT's ways of drafting players. And I also that puts into these kids heads that if TT drafts me, or signs me as an UDFA, I am going to be on the team or at least the PS, whether I am successful or not.
What I would like to see is Aaron Rodgers go to Murphy and the Board of Directors and tell them he will not honor the rest of his contract, and even give back some if not all of his signing bonus until they fire Crappers and TT at the very least. I know it would set a precedence that wouldn't be good, but it is his career. He has earned the right to do it IMHO. He is the franchise. Period. We all know it. The higher ups in the organization need to be pushed. Because they have shown that they are completely content on having a top ten team that cannot get back to the SB. Because they are making big $$. And that won't change whether the team wins or continues to crumble. And the truth is, this team is not getting better, it is getting worse, every year.