Is it finally time for the tight end in Green Bay?
Aaron chats with Packers fans worldwide and looks at the tight end position heading into next week's start of training camp.
By PackerAaron
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On today's show, join Andy Herman for his full observations from Day 1 of Packers Minicamp, plus the latest on the injuries to Zach Tom & Tucker Kraft.
Comments (22)
the_gavia_pass
July 17, 2025 at 01:23 am
the TE position is a key for SB. if we look at SB teams they have great TE. kittle, kelce, gronk and so on.
Ted Thompson knew that and he found Finley who was a really good TE. But he was not lucky with that career ending injury (paired with nick collins...may be the 2 reasons we did not have a dinasty). TT tried to upgrade the position with jimmy graham but he was already washed up.
Gutey & Lafleur made an average effort to adjust the position. Gutey drafted 3-4 TE but no one is even close to kelce-kittle level. Lafleur uses TE only as o-linemen and that is why we always had problems in red zone.
great TE saved QBs in red zone in playoff games. mahomes-kelce and brady-gronk are there to show how it is important the position. a god TE would have saved us in the championship final play vs tampa.
so with gutey&lafleur in charge I do not expect any upgrade in our TE position and their use during games.
that is one of the many reasons Ed Policy needs to clean the house.
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 02:47 am
Tucker Kraft is one of, if not the, best young TEs in the NFL.
Musgrave's athleticism is rare and if he's healthy he should be another dynamic threat at TE.
You're talking about problems in the Red Zone, but Love's completion rate inside the 20 yard line was 3rd best amongst starting QBs in 2024 at 66.6%, and his 19 red zone TDs was good for 9th in the league despite missing a couple of games with injury.
In 2023, Love had a lower red zone completion rate of 53.7%, but he was third in the league in red zone TDs with 24.
the_gavia_pass
July 17, 2025 at 07:23 am
we say "statistics need to be weighed" and to do so you need to watch games.
most of good packers numbers came in "desperate" mode" and vs bad defenses or defenses in garbage mode.
and how can you compare george kittle or kelce to kraft and musgrave??? are we really talking about that???
and it is very clear how lafleur has used TEs...as blocker 99% of the time.
TarynsEyes
July 17, 2025 at 10:47 am
Statistics are the end-all be -all mindset here for many.
Garbage time stats allows plausible deniability.
Watching games without homer-ism/bias is near impossible for many.
The first instinct is to deny what didn't go your way.
Eventually, many will have to accept that MLF has reached his Offensive 'guru' ceiling, and his over-all coaching ability has peaked. He is near as predictable as McCarthy became, or actually always was.
They have many good players and one proven star, though hopes are high for a couple of others,
So, how does Gary rank in the top 100 and still, by many here, are hoping for his assumed 'breakout' season. Shouldn't he have already broken out if a top 100 player? Is there a mandate that each team must have a certain number of representatives?
It isn't easy being a 'realistic' fan here.
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 06:40 pm
Here's a little factoid about 2023, the Packers never trailed by more than 14 all season, and trailed by 7 only 7 times in total. (For what it's worth, they did lose all seven of the games they trailed by 7 or greater in.)
Point being.. down 7 isn't "garbage time" in ANY game.
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 06:32 pm
I'll let you point out the "garbage time" red zone trips in 2023 and 2024.
Get called out, move the goal posts.
YAWN.
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 06:41 pm
One Aaron Rodgers apologist and one ultimate pessimist under the guise of realist. What can you do?
Bitternotsour
July 17, 2025 at 06:45 pm
it's difficult, but - ignore them?
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 06:55 pm
Nah.
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 07:07 pm
Red Zone TD's accounted for 24 of the Packers' 32 passing touchdowns in 2023.
2023 Packers passing TDs by quarter:
1st 7
2nd 6
3rd 12
4th 7
Passing TDs by Score differential in 2024:
Leading: 15
Tied: 3
Trailing: 14
Only (4) of the passing TDs scored while trailing were with less than 4 minutes remaining in the game.
So, please, do tell me more about desperation mode, garbage time, etc? About how poor MLF's red zone offense is?
You people talk about watching the games, that's exactly what I do. I use stats to prove to others that things did or didn't happen.. because otherwise, you're just claiming the RZO is a huge problem, I'm saying it isn't, and we go nowhere. So, I fall back to stats because they are a record of actual events that transpired. You have the right stats, and understand what they measure (and what they don't), and you can paint a pretty accurate picture. This is a great example of that. There's enough various points of data that you can conclude there wasn't a RZ issue in 2023. Feel free to check out 2024 yourself.. I suggest both of you do, because clearly, just 'watching the games' isn't working for either of you.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2023_splits.htm
4thand10
July 17, 2025 at 11:27 pm
The In line TE was necessary….cause well….played better defenses and (our) GB oline…face it was just not good enough so they always needed help in the zone blocking scheme. Musgrave was hurt, Sims was hurt. I’m still not sold on musgrave. Everyone on this board was convinced he was better than kraft….except for me. SF , KC always had better OL which allows for more flexibility at the TE spot. This year we have fresh OL, new OL so we’ll see. We’ll also see if Musgrave can be more durable than he has been.
Leatherhead
July 17, 2025 at 06:45 pm
Packers history is that we don't throw it to the TE that much. Last year, less than normal. Kraft is a pretty good TE, but he only got targeted 4 times/game . He had about 3 catches /per game,but he had a 7 Tds and over 700 yards. Even if we threw it to him 6 times a game, it'd still only be about 100 targets in a season, which is less than several other TEs get targeted.
He's plenty good enough to help us get to a Super Bowl.
Bitternotsour
July 17, 2025 at 06:50 pm
Tucker Kraft got 70 targets in 17 games. Jaden Reed got 75 in 17 games to lead the team. Kraft was second in targets. Try a new narrative on for size.
Tight ends are receivers, wide receivers block. It's the nature of the game. Why you're so caught up in not seeing that is baffling. Is it in-line blocking that confuses you so?
Oppy
July 17, 2025 at 07:11 pm
Whoa, Bitter not only disagreeing with Leatherhead, but seemingly annoyed?
Never saw this before. Interested to see how this plays. ;)
Leatherhead
July 17, 2025 at 07:34 pm
So we play 3 WRs at a time, but only one TE.
Kraft played 925 snaps. Five guys played more snaps on offense, and they were all on the offensive line. The WR with the most snaps is Reed, who had less than 700 snaps.
Pro-football-reference has Kraft as 4th in targets, behind three WRs.
464 targets last year. 86 of them to the TE, 223 to our top 3 WRs.
The TE is on the field more than the WRs, he's targeted less, he gains less per reception. We have at least 1 TE on the field for 60+ plays and we throw it to him 5 times, mostly to the starter.
In Green Bay, for as far back as I can remember (and that goes to Coffman, at least), Green Bay wants a TE who can get his man blocked. Bubba. Ed West. Crabtree.
You see the TE as an extension of the WR unit; I think the Packers see him as an extension of the offensive line.
Bitternotsour
July 17, 2025 at 08:23 pm
Tight ends are receivers. They may not run as far as wideouts, hence receiving additional snaps - you get tired when you run more (I've heard). 70 targets belies your assessment.
Bitternotsour
July 17, 2025 at 08:26 pm
We also have wide receivers on the field for more than 60 plays per game, last I checked.
Bitternotsour
July 17, 2025 at 08:28 pm
Also, as far back as you remember isn't at all relevant. Bubba Franks in an offense designed by Mike Sherman is about as useful of a stat as bringing up Don Hutson.
Leatherhead
July 18, 2025 at 09:30 am
TEs are linemen who are eligible receivers. Over a thousand snaps at the TE position and only 86 targets.
PhantomII
July 17, 2025 at 08:49 pm
Anyone not seeing Kraft AND Jacobs needed more pass plays with all the drops from the WR's should be our HC...Congrats
Leatherhead
July 18, 2025 at 09:31 am
Jacobs gets the ball a lot. Kraft has earned, and deserves, more targets.
Bitternotsour
July 18, 2025 at 11:02 am
despite our disagreement, I think Kraft gets LESS targets this year due to Musgrave being healthy, and there being new highly drafted wide-out targets. I also believe the run game will be even more dominant in play calling, which naturally will open up more downfield throws off play-action. This does not negate the fact that Tight ends are receivers, not linemen.