Gut Reactions: Week 9 vs Carolina Panthers
Aaron's gut reactions from the Packers loss to the Panthers.
By PackerAaron
- I need a smoke after that one.
- I'm really at a loss. So too, apparently, are the Packers coaches.
- I know the comeback showed heart, showed some determination, but there was a reason they needed a comeback.
- Namely, because they played like shit digging themselves into a hole.
- Most of last week the coaches and the scheme were in the fans and media's crosshairs. This week, it feels like things will start to shift over to the players.
- Whether it's Josh Sitton or Corey Linsley or Richard Rodgers or Ha Ha Clinton Dix, there are a bevy of players not playing up to their abilities and it's killing the Packers.
- Not let the coaching staff off the hook, especially Dom Capers. Why it takes a half of football to get aggressive is beyond me.
- Not to mention if I ever see another three man rush on 3rd and 15+ I will most likely end the lives of two kittens.
- I think the Packers threw two slants for six yards.
- I liked how Tom Clements waited until the 4th quarter to find the call sheet with the sceen game on it. Or maybe Mike handed it to him halfway through the game and said "You know what? Try these."
- The scene with Clinton-Dix and Peppers and Raji will get some ink this week, but it's mostly guys being frustrated.
- That said, according to the broadcast, Peppers was giving Clinton-Dix an earful prior to what was shown. If you're the second year guy in that scenario, I suggest you just shut your mouth and acquiesce to the veteran.
- I know the final fourth down play will be disected completely this week. Clearly, Rodgers had Cobb open but it's hard to say what he saw and how much the pressure affected his view.
- Going to be a fun week.
- I still love this team.
- Go Pack.
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Comments (278)
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 04:04 pm
At least we saw them finally break down and run some man beaters. It's truly hard to believe how stubborn they've been on offense.
Nerd
November 08, 2015 at 05:14 pm
They've been playing like this for 2 quarters every week for a decade now. Today they played like this for 3 quarters. Last week it was 4 quarters.
It is neither about the "scheme" nor about the "players." It is due to Mike McCarthy not knowing how to have this team mentally prepared to play football, or emotionally interested in doing so.
They can go back to Xs and Os all they want, that won't change.
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 05:52 pm
It is neither about the "scheme"
I disagree, it's huge piece. Most of the West Coast Offense was created to beat the coverages they are seeing. I turn on the Colts vs the Broncos and I see the Colts (who have a terrible O-line) moving the football against the Broncos with stack receivers, motion, and all of the other stuff created to get guys off the line clean. And also allowing their defense to get a breather on the sideline. The Packers ran almost none of that stuff in the game last week even thought it's a textbook adjustment.
Players not caring is another issue. Eddy Lacy being allowed to come in totally out of shape speaks pretty poorly to how they are running things at the moment.
Nerd
November 08, 2015 at 06:07 pm
This isn't a WCO. This is a Mouse DAvis run and shoot.
Mike McCarthy knows he isn't smart enough to win a chess match on a regular basis. Therefore he doesn't "scheme" to get guys open. He schemes for "match ups."
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 06:26 pm
"This isn't a WCO."
Right, my point is that they refuse to use those concepts.
mrj007
November 08, 2015 at 06:12 pm
Screen passes, quick slants, pick rubs from bunch formations.... I don't know shit about caning plays but I wish you were making play calls. We NEEDED to run screens ALL DAY long - every one picked up at least 10 yds. WTF? You just keep caning the same stupid sit and get your QB killed because the O Line plays/looks like a drunk biker gang from Sturgis?
cheddarhead
November 08, 2015 at 06:47 pm
Yes they could of run the screen all day and went through their defense.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 05:49 pm
I could be wrong, but I believe only one current head coach in the league has a higher winning percentage than Mike McCarthy over the last decade (Belichick if I'm not mistaken).
I don't think you can have that kind of success as a head coach if you don't know how to have your team mentally and emotionally prepared to play football.
Nerd
November 08, 2015 at 06:05 pm
Have you watched the game?
The Seattle game from last January, for example.
Ted has this team stocked with talent, so they can get by pretty well only showing up for 30 each week. Hell, they'd have won today if they showed up for at least HALF the game.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:51 pm
Okay, I have to ask:
Did YOU actually watch the game vs. the Seahawks last January?
MM had the Packers situated to come in and completely dominate the Seahawks on their home turf for 56 minutes. And they did
I could see if the Packers laid an egg or played sub par football for the first half, and it cost them the game. They didn't. They manhandled seattle for three and three-quarters of regulation.
Bah, whatever.
Nerd
November 08, 2015 at 06:55 pm
Remember how we had two consecutive goal line situations early? I don't view what happened there as "dominant." Just my opinion.
WKUPackFan
November 08, 2015 at 10:42 pm
What do you mean by "mentally and emotionally prepared" and "showing up" for the game? Those are very vague terms. How exactly are these things measured? How can you determine them from a television screen?
LeagueObsrvr
November 09, 2015 at 01:13 am
You can tell by the players' demeanor as the game goes along. The sideline reporter even called attention to it at one point, saying the players on the Packers sideline seemed unemotional and without a sense of urgency.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 06:03 am
With all respect, observations of demeanors from a television screen (or a sideline reporter) are not quantifiable. The point is that "mentally and emotionally prepared" and "showing up" mean vastly different things to different people.
What we're really talking about is leadership. As Packers fans we have Vince Lombardi in our DNA. The stories of Coach as a leader of men are legendary. Sometimes we long for another personality that can seemingly will his team to victory.
However, Coach was leading late 50's/early 60s men. Beginning with the Vietnam generation, men (and women) do not want to be "led" anymore. This is particularly true on a professional football team, where each player is a corporation unto themselves.
D.D.Driver
November 08, 2015 at 06:06 pm
You are wasting your breath. There are fans that (honestly) believe that the Packers have been successful despite McCarthy (and Ted Thompson). Every year there is a flavor of the week that seems on the cusp of a dynasty that never pans out.
Every year, the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers will field a good team and have a chance at the Super Bowl. For the last ten years its been those three teams against "the field." Every year, one or two teams from the field will rise up and put together a great team, and then within a year or two free agency catches up to them and they fall back into the pile of shit.
There just aren't better run, better coached, better prepared teams (from the GM to the ball boys) than the Packers. And if you *think* there are, just wait two years and get back to me.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:48 pm
Word, D.D.
And you're right, I probably am wasting my breath.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 01:16 am
I always take note of your posts, Oppy, because IMO many of them are very good, including those with which I am not in entire agreement. This may be simplistic, but in general TT is responsible for acquiring talent and MM is responsible for the correct usage of that talent. I think TT is a top 3 -5 GM, though there is room to criticize him (which means I have gone off on rants about some draft selections). I'd also note that those other top GMs have only won one or two SBs.
I think MM is a good HC. Yet he has had a great player at the most important position for most of his head coaching career. I think the rest of the team is comprised of good talent, less so on the defensive side.
Have the results matched the talent? I'd say that reasonable expectations have been met, though not by much; I would not say that they have been exceeded. I grant that there is a lot more room for failure than there is for exceeding expectations. I can't name a coach who is available that I am reasonably sure would do better than MM has done, so I don't call for his head. Play calling, scheme, creativity, use of players, Monday through Saturday coach, and the quality of his coaching staff have been mentioned, but I don't think there is any problem with the team not playing for MM. I'd say that TT is a better GM than MM is a HC, so that is where I am looking.
D.D.Driver
November 09, 2015 at 02:15 am
"I think MM is a good HC. Yet he has had a great player at the most important position for most of his head coaching career."
You don't think McCarthy and his staff had any role whatsoever in Rodgers' emergence? That Rodgers just came into the league as a fully formed HOF level player and got that way all by himself without any coaching along the way?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 03:11 am
I think MM is a good quarterbacks coach and he hired a good QB coach as well. That is not the same as being a good HC. That said, I do not advocate firing MM.
D.D.Driver
November 09, 2015 at 08:13 am
Understood. But the tenor of many of these posts is that McCarthy's record should have an astrix because he has been lucky that he has had Rodgers on his team. As if Rodgers somehow descended from Planet Krypton in a crystal bassinet, and lifted McCarthy's jalopy pick-up truck off off his body while McCarthy was changing a flat.
Rodgers' development is one of the greatest accomplishments on McCarthy's resume. But Packer fans like to instead pretend that it somehow diminishes all the other stuff. Crazy.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 08:59 am
We are on the same page, pretty much, regarding MM, I think.
Archie
November 08, 2015 at 07:19 pm
Yes you can if #12 is your QB1. When #12 doesn't play near perfectly, MM is in trouble. Except he isn't because of his W/L record. But that record really belongs to #12. It's a circle that lets TT/MM stay 15 years despite getting only 1 SB win despite having teh best QB on the planet. But that's how the homer fans want it so that is how it shall be.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:31 pm
Why do I get the gut feeling that you, Archie, believe that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy could learn a thing or two from Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf... Even though they have pretty much the exact same resumes' at the end of the day?
WKUPackFan
November 08, 2015 at 11:00 pm
Archie also always forgets to mention that TT (for 3 years) and MM (for 2 years) had to deal with the insufferable BF, for whom Archie's heart beats more fondly daily.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:32 pm
And Belicheat got fired as a HC once becuz he didn't have a great QB. A great QB goes hand in hand w/ a great HC. The 2 are inextricably tied together. Rodgers may not be a great QB w/o McCarthy and McCarthy may not be a great HC w/ Rodgers. Goes BOTH ways! McCarthy is one of the best QB coaches in the NFL, and one of the best couple HC in the NFL!!
WKUPackFan
November 08, 2015 at 10:34 pm
Is there a difference between a Packers fan and a homer fan? If I don't live in GB can I still be a homer fan? If I cheer for the Packers when they are on the road am I not a homer? I like homers in baseball, does that mean anything?
Help me, I'm confused.
Tundraboy
November 08, 2015 at 07:17 pm
Finally is right.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:06 pm
-cuban cigar (yes, a real one)
-Coaches had the right game plan
-About effing time they showed some heart and emotion. I'm tired of seeing flat faces just watching them game.
-The first half was sh*t. Second half was less sh*t. Passes were always inaccurate, blocking sucked, no pass rush, blown coverages.
-Coaches are still on the hook as one game does not a season make. The players are always to blame on individual efforts. This week was no different.
-3 man rush??? Come on Capers! Play the way you got there. You have effing #52, man!
-This week was better than last
-Tons of stuff to fix
-Prepare to make stafford look like a god
-Prepare to beat the Lions
-Go Pack Go!
-
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 04:16 pm
What part of the game plan did you like? It was terrible until the 2nd half.
Newton is going to have nice stats, but he missed a few TD passes and was a scatter arm in general.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:32 pm
I saw the return of the slant pass, back to back called runs (while we were behind), I saw a few play action and designed roll-outs, I saw screens. Yes, the second half was a lot better, but the game plan was there. Also, I like that adjustments were made at the half. Tom Clements saved his job today.
Newton absolutely missed a few plays that could've blown the doors off of us. That wasn't a game plan problem though; it was an execution problem.
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 04:49 pm
Slant pass, Roll-outs and Screens, yeah with 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter. The offensive game plan was a joke.
dobber
November 08, 2015 at 05:00 pm
"Newton absolutely missed a few plays that could've blown the doors off of us."
He also dropped a couple bombs in on "well-covered" (ahem, PI) receivers that really had no business being caught. What comes around goes around.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:19 pm
My definition of the game plan differs from yours. The game plan is put in during the week, before the game. The game plan showed that the coaches learned very little. It was terrible.
Adjustments can be made prior to half time. It is legal to do that. The fact that running the type of plays that have been advocated on this site worked during this game does not translate into Clements saving his play calling duties, though I suppose too late too little is better than never making the adjustments at all.
NickPerry
November 08, 2015 at 05:43 pm
Clements shouldn't have saved his job, for all we know McCarthy was in Rodgers ear in the 4th quarter and "Suggesting Calls" to Clements. Something has got to change but I can hear mashed Potato Mike already, "Well I thought we played well the last nine minutes of the game and can build off that".
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 05:54 pm
Yeah, or "I don't really get into scheme"...
KenEllis
November 08, 2015 at 04:08 pm
Am wondering when someone who covers the Pack has the cajones to call for Dom's head.
That 3-man rush in the first quarter set the tone for the whole first 3 quarters, just like his 3-man rush in Seattle in last year's NFC Championship game helped give Seattle life when none existed.
At this point of Dom's tenure, comments like "if I ever see another three man rush on 3rd and 15+ I will most likely end the lives of two kittens" are just tiresome.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:10 pm
I can not believe the call of a 3 man rush. There is zero reason to call that play when our secondary is that banged up and abused.
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 04:59 pm
The problem with Capers is that he gets teams playing well for about 3-4 weeks here and there against a string of bad to mediocre QB's and then everyone talks about what a defensive genius he is. Well, he is very, very smart. But, what he doesn't do well is define a game plan his guys can execute. How many times did we watch Nate Palmer fail to pick up a guy in coverage because he was still diagnosing if it was a run play? A plan is only a good one if the guys can execute it. We've seen the same thing over and over in the secondary. The players don't understand the "genius" scheme well enough to play it a game speed against good offenses.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 06:06 pm
Kinda of funny. The book on Capers years ago was that he can improve a defense for a year or two, and then the defense regresses. Now he is down to a couple of games. Just to be clear, I am not disagreeing with you at all.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:08 pm
Have to add one: Watching Indy make Denver look like a joke is very disheartening.
KenEllis
November 08, 2015 at 04:17 pm
C'mon now, the company line after last week's loss is that nobody could ever move on the best defense ever assembled.
Don't point out facts that don't fit the narrative.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:33 pm
I love you, KenEllis!
Idiot Fan
November 08, 2015 at 04:12 pm
- I don't care about the three-man rush; I care about dropping 8 and still leaving guys wiiiiide open.
- I think the O is just in a funk that it will get out of; I think the D is made in the image of Capers and will never change until Capers is gone.
- I'm calling it now: we are going to play that team again this year, and we're going to beat them by 20.
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:14 pm
I think your last point is very good. I think that halftime was a turning point in our offense's season.
dobber
November 08, 2015 at 05:01 pm
I hope you're both right.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:11 pm
It is no turning point. It is coaches continuing to fail to insert a strategy to exploit the opponent from the beginning and having the team ready. Seems Colts can. This team played bad all year, and fans seem content with "glad they learned to win the ugly games". What BS is that? It means they're playing crap football, and maybe got lucky bounce.
Another game, and another record day for the opponent.
I've said it all year ; GB defense was way over-rated. I call it every year; until TT drafts quality ILB and DEs, the D is so vulnerable to exploitation. Totally obvious from pre-season that Offense should have had upgrade at TE position, and caused a ripple effect as much as loss of Jordy.
I didn't think I was that smart, but jeez, I must be after all.
I now join the fire-capers club. I'm checking out the fire-MM club. When do they meet?
Tundraboy
November 08, 2015 at 04:19 pm
Good to see some fire today albeit too little too late. Even if it was also amongst each other. Better than the look on their faces the week before
TommyG
November 08, 2015 at 04:21 pm
I saw a lot of positives in that second half!
Klincker
November 08, 2015 at 04:21 pm
Not the kittens!
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 04:27 pm
My cat was never in any danger, but he decided that my lap was not a good place for repose today.
NickPerry
November 08, 2015 at 05:48 pm
Mine too, they were in the Bedroom! Nagler leave the Kittys alone!!
rjwh23
November 08, 2015 at 04:22 pm
Some observations as I sat behind the Packer’s bench during today’s game:
• Defensive players sat on the bench as if it was a church pew. I almost never saw a coach talking to players, like the offensive coaches did on the sidelines. It appeared the D was leaderless, with players killing time until having to return to the field.
• Bulaga couldn’t block anyone.
• From a fan’s perspective, watching last week’s debacle on TV was easier. Sitting near the sideline is gut wrenching -- three + hours of second-guessing what the defense was trying to do.
Listened to the Panther’s broadcast and former Packer, Eugene Robinson’s analysis. Some of his observations:
• He wondered throughout the first half why GB’s DBs were playing man-to-man 5 yards off Carolina’s receivers.
• He said the Panthers were fortunate that the Packer’s didn’t try the screen pass until the fourth quarter.
• Described Bulaga repeatedly getting beat by a “windshield wiper” move.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 04:22 pm
I love this team, I love this team, I love this team. It gets hard to say after games like that, but I have to remind myself that once and a while.
Horrible game. Coaches have to figure something out. Can't blame them for everything, but they were terrible. As bad as the coaches were, players were just as bad.
That all being said, they are 6-2. Made a great comeback. Maybe that fight will turn it around for them.
I was happy to see Ryan getting in the game. I thought he did well overall. I still would like to see other young players getting into the game more. Elliott, Gunter, Janis, and Abbrederis.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:56 pm
Maaaaan, please explain to me why we see Perrilo (or whatever) flexed out wide running routes when we have Janis and Abby available?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 05:12 pm
Better yet, what does it say about Janis and Abbrederis, when they can't get on the field ahead of Perillo?! Maybe that for all the Janis hype, its TOTALLY Unwarranted?!
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:21 pm
OR that we have very stubborn coaches. Hard to say which is the case.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 05:53 pm
....OR very stubborn QB who may or may not have some or too much control over personnel package decisions?
Just throwing it out there.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 05:21 pm
I have no idea why we see Perillo out wide and not Janis.
The other thing I don't get. We start the game with great play action plays, hit Ripkowski for a nice big gain. Then we don't see that the rest of the game. Another thing, how don't we see a screen pass until the 4th quarter?
What that is telling me, is that whoever is calling the plays is doing a horrible job.
Also how is it that we are constantly burning timeouts due to the play clock running down. Seems like they are taking to long to get the plays in.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 05:59 pm
As a different poster noted last week (sorry I don't remember who), I sure wish there was a way to know if it's Clements or Rodgers who is responsible for the final play at the line of scrimmage from time to time.
Keep in mind, the play call that goes into the huddle is not necessarily the play that gets executed on any given play.
I have wondered- nothing more, nothing less- but I have wondered if part of MM's decision to pull away from playcalling stems from being tired of butting heads with Rodgers on the sideline- friction has definitely been building between them over the last few years and it seems like it was becoming a bit of a power struggle. I have wondered if MM just said, "You know what, I've been thinking other areas of the team need more direction anyways, why not kill two birds with one stone? You guys think you can run the offense better? Fine, go to it. I'll be over here if you have any questions. "
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 06:06 pm
@Oppy
That's very interesting. I HOPE things aren't that bad there in Green Bay. That doesn't sound healthy at all. I can't imagine one without the other (MM & AR).
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:57 pm
IF it were the case, I wouldn't think its messy. I would think it was a matter of things heading that direction, and MM relenting before it got to be a distraction.
MM clearly believes, and has publicly stated many times, that he feels he needs to give Aaron more room to run the offense. It does appear that playcalling has been the subject of a few heated moments on the sidelines over the years, whether it's MM seemingly upset with Rodgers changing a play at the LOS or Rodgers being unhappy with MM sending a particular personnel grouping out on the field.
I just wonder if MM just decided the building friction was more of a hindrance than it was worth.
Totally unsubstantiated spitballing on my part.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:20 pm
It isn't the play calling per se, but lack of strategy of the play calls. Anyone watching the last 7 packers games should see need to do a serious change-up. I would have installed a quick pass/2 minute drill type offense for the first 3-4 series and wear down the pass rushers before running much. But MM continues basically the same vanilla game plan. Runs on 1st or 2nd yielded 2-3 yards/play. Then third down and 8, 10, 13, 18 (whatever the announcer kept saying...long+), the whole stadium knows a pass. What is so hard to about strategy???
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 06:21 am
Oppy, I'd be thrilled to have AR call all the plays. That doesn't mean I have issues with TC or MM. Your question shows that criticism regarding play calling is ultimately uninformed, but it is interesting to speculate.
NickPerry
November 09, 2015 at 06:26 am
Oppy that's interesting and one that might be right on the mark. My first thought was did McCarthy pay ANY attention to the defense?
Archie
November 08, 2015 at 07:26 pm
ditto Lacy on at least one play...
kildahljb
November 08, 2015 at 09:13 pm
Agree. If they don't trust Janis to run real routes, just have him run fly patterns and maybe, just maybe, he blows by someone. Let Abby run the "real" routes
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 05:06 pm
Whats so hard to figure out for you? WR aren't getting ANY separation at all! The D is missing 2 of its 3 best CB.
Capers tried 3 man rush and coverage, the D gets gashed. Capers rushes 5 or 6 his D gets gashed. Points to continuous issues where the D isn't playing sound! HHCD gets in a shouting match w/ Peppers and won't shut his pie hole. Shows the kid made a couple mistakes! But lets get more young players in the game so we can put up w/ MORE MISTAKES?!
What does it say about Janis, that a rookie like Ryan is able to step in and play decent football. Yet Janis can't get on the field when a WR that can stretch the D is SO F'in obvious? Says he must not have a F'in clue that's what it says!
TarynsEyes
November 08, 2015 at 05:16 pm
I wouldn't be so sure that the 'clueless' aspect is solely on Janis in regard to your comparison with Ryan. Ryan is playing or getting time because of the failure at ILB as a whole ,where as the failing at the WR position is still in denial....and my thought,Rodgers has a disdain for him for some reason other than the trust bs...the object is to win and if Ryan gets in under that guise the same should be for Janis...can't be any worse at this time than what we witness lately. :)
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:25 pm
It's not about hype, smart ass. It's about who can give the team the best chance of being successful. Don't you sit up there and act like you don't believe the coaches play or start the wrong players at times!!!
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 05:35 pm
Coaches definitely don't play players they should at times. We saw all preseason Gunter shit guys down. Starters not just guys. And yet they are playing Goodson over Gunter? I don't get it. I would rather have Bush playing then Goodson.
I thought Janis proved he could play against the Chargers. I guess I was wrong about that.
I don't get why Elliott hasn't been playing lately. Each week he was making plays after plays. The last 3-4 games and he barely sees the field. I don't get it.
J0hn Denver's Gavel
November 08, 2015 at 07:06 pm
Exactly. Goodson has no business on the field. The bottom of the DB depth chart needs attention, and a shake up. Gunter sure got the coaches' attentions with the two penalties, I believe both on ST. Frustrating penalties will definitely cost him future PT.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 07:18 pm
I don't know about the first penalty on Gunter but the second looked like he got him on the side. Looked like a good block to me.
One thing I never understood. Why does playing time on offense or defense be determined by special teams play?
I just don't see what the coaches see in Goodson. He is slow reacting and is horrible in coverage. Based on preseason, Gunter was far and away the better player.
NickPerry
November 09, 2015 at 06:30 am
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!! For the life of me I can't understand WHY TT kept him. He couldn't cover in the preseason against UDFA, hows he going to cover starting NFL WR's. Carolinas WR group is hardly average at best. Hey Ted, this is where trading a 6th rounder might be a good thing, keep you from keeping guys like Goodson just because he was a draft pick.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 08:59 am
JDG - I'd rather have Goodson on an outside WR than Hyde. I love Micah, but he's just not fast enough, and should not be put in that position.
Jacksonville came so close again yesterday. Really like the way they play, very consistent and disciplined. If you check out the Fox Radio Sunday morning show Mike Harmon and Dan Byer are calling them Actionville!
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 05:31 pm
Yeah Ryan is getting playing time due to a lack of good options at ILB. Are you saying there are better options at WR, cuz I Sure as hell haven't seen ANY WR getting seperation!
Adams is at best a #2 WR, who probably and based on recent evidence, SURELY isn't ready in that role! Cobb is NOT and never will be a #1 WR, even tho he's a terrific slot WR. R. Rodgers couldn't get separation if his life depended on it! James Jones has helped but same damn problem, he can't get open and has to hope he can make contested receptions!
And w/ all this lack of production and separation, its the coaches fault for not trying Janis? What the hell does it say about Janis then?!
Coaches are trying different personnel. different coverages and rush schemes? Tried some bunch and stack formations and NOTHING is getting receivers open. Yet Janis still isn't getting a shot? They must REALLY not trust him!!!!!!!
chugwater
November 08, 2015 at 05:33 pm
Rich Rod reminds me of Bubba Franks without the hands. At least Bubba could help in short yardage situations and red zone.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 06:03 pm
R.Rodgers had 2 TDs while the Pack were in the Red Zone and I believe they both came on 3rd down.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:02 pm
Richard Rodgers redeeming quality is that he has very good hands overall..
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:40 pm
I agree R. Rodgers has great hands and can make some contested catches, what he can't do is get ANY separation or get himself open!
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 08:49 pm
Well, he's not fast, that's for sure.
He has shown the ability to get himself open in a congested space- like the red zone- where the need for speed is lessened, and being crafty and opportunistic can get you into a good situation in the end zone.
Just pointing out to Chug that saying he's B. Franks with lousy hands probably isn't quite accurate. It's more like he's B. Franks, but playing in a vertical offense instead of a WCO.
chugwater
November 08, 2015 at 06:05 pm
True. I just wish he were more consistent. He has had too many drops in recent games, today included. Much more impactful last year. Needs to break out of the sophomore slump.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:00 pm
The argument that I'm surprised you haven't received is "Remember when the Packers coaching staff spent three seasons refusing to play Desmond Bishop at ILB, and then when they finally did, all he did was make plays?"
But, hey, who am I to say that sometimes the Packers coaching staff makes mistakes. But, you know what, they do sometimes.
All that having been said, I don't think Janis is a coaching mistake. He's not ready. But your argument is rubbish, Dan.
Archie
November 08, 2015 at 07:30 pm
especially Winston Moss ..... see AJ Hawk for a decade.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:59 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, and I haven't seen evidence he's ready for that role. R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gets no seperation anywhere.
I don't know what more evidence you need? And amidst all this Janis can't get on the field. I would say the evidence is tremendously in my favor.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 08:23 pm
Coaches are right, they are always right. Cobb is a number 1, Adams is a number 2 and Jones is a number 3. Their use of Rodgers and Perillo outside is nothing short of genius. It puts their best receiving options on the field. You are right proof is in the pudding. Coaches clearly have everything under control.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 08:54 pm
I didn't say coaches are always right. THey are human too. But I will say they know a hell of a lot more about the players than you or I do, since you know they are around them EVERY DAY. But go ahead and keep believing you know more than they do.
Clearly you are right and they are wrong and F'ed in the head. I'm waiting to congratulate you on your upcoming announcement of a HC job in the NFL.
BTW I saw Janis on the field quite a bit today. He did nothing.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 10:27 pm
Yes they are around the players every day. They see what happens in practice and meetings. I have never once said that I know more then them. I have never once said that I am going to be a coach. And I have never said they were f'ed in the head. Quit being a douche.
All I have ever said is what I want to see done. And fact is I share the same opinion of a lot of people. And I'm talking about people like Brian Carriveau, Jason Wilde and many more who's opinions I respect.
And the fact is that the coaches could do a better job using players they have and using their strengths. And I'm not just talking about Janis even though that's who your fixated on. I'm talking about guys like Elliott.
And yes I saw Janis in the game. Blocking. Makes a lot of sense to have a guy with his speed and play making ability in the backfield blocking. Just like it made a lot of sense to wait till the 4th quarter to use a screen pass.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:48 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Joes getn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:49 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:49 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:50 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:50 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:50 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:50 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:51 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:51 pm
Proof is in the pudding. W/o Jordy, Cobb has proven he isn't a #1 WR, Adams has proven he is nothing more than a #2 WR, R. Rodgers has proven he can't get any seperation! Jones gestn noseperation anywhere.
I don'tk now what more evidence you need?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 08:00 pm
Sorry bout the multiple comments. Stupid computer froze and comment wouldn't submit.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 08:24 pm
Sure, blame it on the computer. ;)
D.D.Driver
November 08, 2015 at 09:10 pm
But where is the PROOF?!?!
DrealynWilliams
November 09, 2015 at 12:04 am
Hahahahaha
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 05:42 pm
If Janis can't play cut our loses and move on! Teddy can be stuborn. Is Miles White still out there?
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:06 pm
Janis is a long term project WR who may or may not work out.
The reason he will be active every week and will play out his entire contract is because he's an excellent special teams player.
That talent for special teams play will buy the Packers (and Janis himself) every opportunity to see if he can turn the corner and capitalize on his physical talents to become an NFL caliber WR.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:26 pm
I agree on your point about Janis, Abby and other young players not being ready or the solution. However, I've also lost faith in Capers and McCarthy's preparing a game strategy designed for the opponent of the week. So, I don't know. Maybe MM and DC are just clueless.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 04:23 pm
"I suggest you just shut your mouth and acquiesce to the veteran" - not if that veteran plays like sh*t repeatedly... and that is what Peppers has done the last 3 weeks actually. better shut up and look at his own play. Not that HHCD played well either...
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 05:51 pm
Peppers is done after this year.
chugwater
November 08, 2015 at 06:07 pm
In Dallas that's called 'passionate leadership' and is just as ineffective.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:09 pm
There isn't another OLB in the league who has more sacks than Julius Peppers does right now.
WTF are you guys talking about?
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 06:24 pm
Wait, did that quote come from Peppers' mouth?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 02:11 am
Peppers has 5 sacks, the glamour stat. At least two were caused by the DL flushing the QB, with Peppers doing his job and cleaning up. Peppers has only 7 pressures in 346 snaps (1 every 49 snaps), 17th among LBs. Erik Walden has 9. Houston has 24. Peppers has 0.5 run stuffs. He has 17 total tackles, on a pace for 34. Perry has 5 hurries in 143 snaps (1 every 28.6 snaps). Daniels has 9.5 from the DE position. If you think Peppers is playing at a high level because he leads OLBs in sacks, I would strongly disagree. I'd say he is an average OLB at this point.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 06:34 am
Hi tgr! Will have to slightly disagree, as I think Peppers makes plays that don't show in the stats. For example, Jonathan Stewart had a run between the RG/RT where he briefly got to the second level. Peppers, from behind, grabs and pulls Stewart backwards. Most guys from Peppers' position would take the opportunity for the bigger hit, knocking Stewart forward. Peppers was smart enough (and strong enough) not to do that.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 09:05 am
Fair enough. He might even dissuade opponents from running certain plays, IDK. I'd say a green+ to a red- would be a fair grade.
WKUPackFan
November 10, 2015 at 09:51 am
I agree, good call.
Since'61
November 08, 2015 at 04:24 pm
The defense was just awful again today. No sacks, Newton running all over the place and poor coverage. The OL was also a nightmare again. 5 sacks, too many hits on Rodgers and poor blocking for the ground game. 8 dropped passes is unacceptable. All of that we were still one play away from tying the game. If the OL holds up on the 4th down play we score a TD. Offense is having too much trouble on 3rd down. Also poor use of timeouts hurt us at the end of the first half. This team needs a lot of work especially on defense. Thanks, Since '61
Charvid
November 08, 2015 at 04:55 pm
Trouble on 3rd down is right...starting with the damn distance. As Aikman pointed out, 3rd & 9, 3rd & 11, 3rd and 14 repeatedly. Much of that was due to poor Oline play--not opening holes or allowing sacks. What happened to this line? It should be better than last yr's, but holy crap they look awful. It's real hard to look good on 3rd down when line plays like that.
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 05:55 pm
Agree it seems Lindsy has regressed and Bulga what is going on with him. Who the hell is the o-line coach. He needs to go. It all starts with the o-line. Rodgers has no time, no holes and crappy play from the line. Bye Bye Dom Capers you can leave too.
Phillthy
November 08, 2015 at 04:25 pm
Good loss boys, we needed it.
A loss will inspire change, a loss will prompt action.
A win would have only disguised our flaws for abother week, hopefully this results in action.
I'm glad the players got mad at one another, we need the fire and killer instinct that eluded us in Seattle and Denver.
It's sad to say but when this team is down 2 touchdowns there is little hope, it was good to see them try and it ultimately be futile.
Hopefully a chip is placed on every shoulder, and this is the streak we need to find ourselves riding high into the Super Bowl, go Pack go!
D.D.Driver
November 08, 2015 at 05:40 pm
Don't know if they needed another loss. Much rather have watched them complete the comeback. But I'm glad the swagger came back in the fourth quarter. They finally remembered that they are the freaking Packers and decided to play like it. There was a lot to like about the way the team finished the game. I even like seeing the veterans chewing out the DBs (and then have that followed by an INT).
Point-Packer
November 08, 2015 at 04:26 pm
Bulaga is over-paid. Big time. Hope he's injured, cause he is playing like absolute garbage out there.
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 04:41 pm
He had knee surgery about 6 weeks ago. Pretty sure he's not 100%
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 04:51 pm
Then let a healthy guy play. If even a healthy guy is not as good as 80% of Bulaga then this team is in deep trouble. In general, both OTs are terrible. And that is a compliment...
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 06:00 pm
Then get him out of there, where is the dept on this team, we do have a bench. Bulga sucks,if he can't play because of knee surgery then get him out of there. Whats it going to take. Make some changes. Sometimes I wonder what is so obvious to many, does MM has blinders on?
Irish_Cheesehead
November 08, 2015 at 06:02 pm
Oh, and then have Don Barclay go in for him? Did you see how Barclay played when he was in there?
chugwater
November 08, 2015 at 06:09 pm
I don't hope anybody is injured regardless of how they play.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:14 pm
I haven't seen Bulaga as being a liability overall. Today, most of the play-crushing pressures came from blown pick ups up the middle- Starks, Kuhn. and Linsely all had multiple, uncharacteristic failures to correctly prioritize pressure on the inside and make the appropriate blitz pick up.
Starks in particular was caught looking outside instead of inside on multiple occasions.
Bakhtiari, though.. I won't say he's bad, but he's not a franchise type LT you want protecting the best QB in the league. IMO, he's the only offensive lineman the Packers need to actively look to upgrade (well, you always look for an upgrade regardless, but you know what I mean.)
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 06:55 am
^^This, 100%
Lermdogg
November 08, 2015 at 04:26 pm
Jake Ryan showed up today. I don't know why it took this long to get this guy some playing time.
jbromusic
November 08, 2015 at 04:46 pm
he might not be a great player but he played with some heart and some fire. i like him
zoellner25
November 08, 2015 at 04:29 pm
I'll say this. This team looked lost, disinterested, and completely out of touch in first half. At least they showed life and didn't quit in 2nd half. Getting embarrassed again should do that
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:48 pm
I agree on the lost,disinterested and out of touch claims.
EdsLaces
November 08, 2015 at 04:29 pm
Yay for the Jake Ryan siting. Liked the Ripkowski play...Nagler or Brian asked for it and it happened. 23 is definitely making some plays which is needed because Hayward just sucks. Hate to keep saying we will be better when we are healthy cause ...are we ever gonna get healthy?
Point-Packer
November 08, 2015 at 04:29 pm
Oh, and so is Peppers. Ha Ha played like shit, but our D line allowed Cam to stand back there all day. Including our 10 million dollar star Julius Peppers.
jh9
November 08, 2015 at 04:29 pm
I'll be a Packers fan until I die.
However,
If Cam Newton was a more accurate passer, Carolina would have scored over 50 points
Except for a few series, both our offense and defense played poorly again
This is not the play of a Super Bowl champion
I'm forced to the conclusion that over the last six years what we are is a fairly good team with a really good quarterback and mediocre coaching
I wish I could be more positive
tobinrote
November 08, 2015 at 04:41 pm
you nailed it. we built up our record against weak teams. the middle of the field has been wide open since the 4th and 26 years ago except when nick collins of blessed memory was around to give a real safety. the play calling until junk time was just awful. Ha Ha had an awful game ,but you do not see Peppers making plays either. I assume Ryan was in only because they have lost all patience with Palmer. Ryan will not be much better, as impossible as that might be
dobber
November 08, 2015 at 05:11 pm
"Ryan was in only because they have lost all patience with Palmer. Ryan will not be much better, as impossible as that might be"
Then let the guy play. What can it hurt at this point?
Irish_Cheesehead
November 08, 2015 at 06:03 pm
Exactly. Ryan has way more upside than Palmer.
jeremyjjbrown
November 08, 2015 at 07:06 pm
Ryan is an MLB and has those instincts. With the exception of Clay the record on OLBs moving to MLB is pretty poor.
Archie
November 08, 2015 at 07:35 pm
yes, we are the cleve browns of the 80s, coached by Marty Shittenheimer, the same guy who served as MM's mentor.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 06:58 am
Another very insightful and clever comment that we've seen 100 times before, thanks.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:34 pm
Totally agree. Flawed drafting and inability to upgrade with a prudent free agent or 2; at ILB and TE. Both positions have deep ripple effects.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:46 pm
I'm going to get straight to the point:
Aaron Rodgers is playing like ass. I'm down to go back and forth with ANYONE on this. Yes, the line hasn't been playing great and yes, the WRs could be more consistent. But damn it, I've been seeing Rodgers take sacks he hasn't even seen coming. I've seen Rodgers take unnecessary sacks. I've seen Rodgers with a clean pocket overthrow WIDE OPEN receivers. I've seen Rodgers with a clean pocket make bad throws which wipes away any potential RAC (and fortunately was still somehow caught). Rodgers finally started to show some emotion late in the game and that's when things started to turn. I don't have any gripes with him from then on (only because I don't know if I should blame him,MM or TC for that burned TO in the 4th).
That arguing by Peppers and HHCD and shove by Raji -- I like. At least the Defense seems to care. I don't think it was anything serious. If I had to guess, it was about effort. Clay and Daniels are the only guys who seem to always be on 100. I don't know what the hell the Safeties were doing this game. It seemed like they were always getting burned. Palmer played bad this game, but I think he's being scapegoated. I don't see anyone else getting benched when they eff up and there are players constantly getting beat or messing up. Hayward, Mike Neal, Randall (he did bounce back with a clucth INT) and HHCD. I just think the message being sent on Defense is a bad one.
Lacy should be reduced to goal line and closer duty.
I don't even know why I'm upset after I guessed this 6-2 record. I'm 8-0 on the season so far.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 04:53 pm
What don't you like about Rodgers having to throw to receiver that are perfectly covered? Rodgers is doing about EVERYTHING he can. Threw a pass to Cobb who was so well covered that he hit the DB in the head!
If the F'in WR did his job and GOT OPEN Rodgers wouldn't be reduced to throwing to covered WR!
What's so difficult? I mean really?
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 05:01 pm
Well Cam Newton threw to perfectly covered WRs. That worked too. HE is an NFL QB. Maybe #12 should take some chances and throw to guys, trusting them to make the play, instead of just calculating the TD-to-INT ration all the freaking time
Idiot Fan
November 08, 2015 at 05:13 pm
Wow, only uber-spoiled Packer fans could make a statement like this.
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 06:13 pm
It all starts with the O-line, give just a tad bit longer and he is the best QB in the game. Tom Brady would be chewing that line out on national tv. Don't blame Rodgers for the crap that's going on around him.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:38 pm
You are out of your mind dude. Tired of Rogers? Are you kidding? You obviously have no clue if you're a packer fan. But if you're a Chigo fan, then I can understand your comment. Or were you talking about Cutler?
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:25 am
Wow, people really want it both ways. Last week the complaint was that Rodgers wasn't a screamer like Brady and Rivers. Now we're upset that AR is allegedly upset with certain players and coaches.
"We" is the way to communicate regarding a team sport. It keeps from singling out individuals for bad plays. I've heard AR take plenty of personal responsibility for his performance.
The stats through this point in his career say he is the best ever. Dare I say the "eye test" does also? I'm old enough to have seen the great Bart Starr (through a child's eye). Mr. Starr will always be my favorite, but AR is clearly more talented, even accounting for different eras. His TD/INT ratio alone makes him better than BF. Marino is the only QB I've ever seen that comes close to AR.
DrealynWilliams
November 09, 2015 at 12:06 am
@Pete It's not really about Rodgers taking chances. I think he does at times, but he's just not himself right now.
For every play where he squeezes a pass in between 2 defenders and Adams drops it...
There's a play where Cobb is running free with 2 or more steps passed the CB and Rodgers just over throws it.
The blame goes both ways, but the receivers aren't MVPs. They aren't being paid like Rodgers is getting paid. So Rodgers has to shoulder majority of the blame.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:06 pm
So, Rodgers never had to throw receivers open? Is what we're seeing new to Rodgers?
Maybe Rodgers hit the CB in the head because the pass was bad? Is that possible?
I already said the WRs need to be more consistent,but if you think the reasoning behind the 2 losses - you're crazy.
This WR play has been happening this entire season -- I guess it's just coincidence that Rodgers had better numbers that game.There's been one standout game by a WR and it was against the Chiefs.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 05:19 pm
Shows that Rodgers is always throwing receivers open, not to mention covered receivers! And w/o Jordy to stretch the field, it's all the more Obvious!
Been saying for a LONG time now, Adams is at best a #2 WR who isn't ready for that role. Cobb is a great slot WR but NOT a #1 WR, and R. Rodgers can make some contested catches, but can't get HIMSELF open. But go ahead, and keep making excuses for all the receivers you OVER-rated!
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 06:00 pm
I agree about Adams. He might develop, but right now he does not gain separation. Adams and Jones are #3/4 WRs, despite the Adams hype.
Icebowler
November 08, 2015 at 10:51 pm
Those three games Adams missed really messed with his development this year. He played much better than last week and if he can stay healthy, I think he'll improve each week going forward.
porupack
November 08, 2015 at 11:43 pm
A lot of us agree Stodola. Its just some on this site who over-rate. But one legit excuse is that MM hasn't installed route-concepts and strategies for getting mediocre receivers open. We know around the league a lot of mediocre receivers can be very productive with good strategies-designs.
Idiot Fan
November 08, 2015 at 05:11 pm
I'm as big of a Rodgers fan as there is, but he has definitely missed some throws to open receivers that he normally hits. He's not playing bad by NFL standards, but he's been playing bad relative to his own high standards.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:16 pm
Exactly @IF
That's all I'm saying.
What's the offensive difference between the Bears game and these last two games? Aaron Rodgers.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 05:26 pm
In this game Rodgers had players open and missed them. He had Cobb on the big play down the sidelines and overthrew him. He had Adams for a first down and missed him. He was behind Cobb on another pass.
Whatever the reason he isn't throwing with the accuracy he has in the past.
Justin Ritzel
November 08, 2015 at 05:10 pm
There was a couple times Rodgers literally had a second before a Carolina defender was in his face. Now while I dont totally disagree that Rodgers should take chances a little more, I dont know what else you could've expected today – Rodgers was running for his life all afternoon.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:18 pm
@Justin
I'm not faulting Rodgers for plays like that. Of course he can't do much when he has no time. But you can't say there weren't time where he had time and a pocket and made nothing happen.
"There was a couple times Rodgers literally had a second before a Carolina defender was in his face."
Keyword : couple
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:31 pm
With regard to Dix, I remember a play where Daniels made a fine play and was tackling Tolbert in the backfield, but Tolbert (5´9¨ 250 lbs) is hard to bring down. No one swarmed to the ball, and Tolbert was able to lunge forward and minimize the loss before going down. I saw Dix jogging forward - had he swarmed to the ball, Tolbert would have been down 2 yards sooner. I guess he thought Daniels had Tolbert down and let up.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:40 pm
That's been going on for a while. I don't want to say the entire defense does that, but for sure the majority of it does. I hope Daniels (or Clay) is the type of leader to check that behind closed doors, but that has to stop.
Just think back to the Seahawks game. Players were flying to the ball. You rarely seen a 1-on-1 tackle on a running play.
BELIEVER
November 08, 2015 at 06:16 pm
He had no time the whole game!
Mojo
November 08, 2015 at 05:43 pm
Buluga is catching some heat, but if ARod hadn't gotten happy feet on the fourth and four play, it would have been a touchdown. Rodgers almost immediately after the snap starting moving laterally when he didn't have to. If he stands his ground it's an easy toss to Cobb and they're lining up for the two point conversion.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:52 pm
I wonder if Rodgers slammed the tablet because he got happy feet prematurely PLUS he found out Cobb was wide open.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that desperate pass was not intended for Cobb, right??
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 07:57 pm
that's right, the target of that pass was Jones
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 09:37 pm
So, Rodgers was quoted saying "I had the easy opportunity for a pitch-and-catch touchdown but I got scared by something. I can't explain it." about the final play.
That pretty much confirms what I saw and why he gave the reaction he gave on the sideline. BINGO!
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:21 pm
"Lacy should be reduced to goal line and closer duty."
I personally believe Lacy shouldn't even be activated next week, and I certainly don't want to seem him on the goal line.
His ball security is a big time issue at this point, especially considering how relatively few touches he's had.
I think it's time for accountability, if only to prove a point. Sit Lacy's ass next week, let Starks handle the lion's share of the carries (he's earned it with superior play anyways), and activate Alonzo Harris and let the young buck take any auxiliary snaps.
In fact, pull some college shit with Lacy. Make him carry a football 24-7 for the next 13 days, and instruct EVERYONE on the Packers payroll to attempt to strip the ball from Eddy when they see him on the practice field, in the locker room, in the hallways, or at the local Red Lobster.
13 days could really send a message.
NickPerry
November 09, 2015 at 06:41 am
I like that Oppy. Keep him inactive next week, carry a ball around, and eat NOTHING but fish, chicken, and greens for the next few weeks. In other words, get down to 230!
Icebowler
November 08, 2015 at 11:02 pm
I'll bet Olivia is somehow messing with his head.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 04:34 pm
Here are my thoughts:
* This team is lucky to be 6-2. They will have to be lucky to play to 4-4 with the remaining schedule.
* The OL is bad. Just plain bad.
* No matter what, the O tries to just hit the long play over and over again. Until they had to go to quick and short throws and screens in the 4th Q.
* Sometimes one wonders whether they actually want to win. Or want to win only if they can win the way they want to win...
* Yes D was bad. At the same time, it must be horrendous to get a stop, come to the sideline, and have to go back in a couple of minutes later because the O just had another 3&out...
* The last 2 weeks I heard that Carolina had no passing attack and no good WRs. Actually, I'd rather have Carolinas WR than the Packers WR at this point.
* I posted a couple weeks ago that I believed the Packers would be 6-2 at this point, and that the 2 games were the first real tests this year. And that's how it went. The Packers will lose against good teams. Who have they played this year before the last couple of games? No good team. Period.
* Even if they win the NFC North, they'll be one-and-done. But I actually doubt they'll win the NFC North. They'll go 4-4 for the rest of the schedule at best. Vikings will also go 4-4 but will get the tie breaker.
* It will still be enough to make the playoffs.
* I don't think the Packers coaches are up to the task. Sorry, but to see those guys just standing on the side line with blank looks on their faces is disheartening when other teams constantly COACH during a game.
gbpackerowner
November 08, 2015 at 04:42 pm
Hit the nail on the head... They are who they are... The soft underbelly has been exposed. And it all comes down to vanilla coaching... Let's see what the excuses are this week
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:38 pm
The offensive line has talent. It should have cohesiveness having played 26 games together (roughly). I cannot explain what the problem is. Today, Sitton let a rusher go on what he thought was a stunt. Kuhn whiffed on blitz pick up (uncharacteristic for him). Linsley let a guy run free. Bulaga and Bakh had some trouble again, especially on bull rushes. It may be that some of these guys are more banged up than we know. None of these guys are old. Linemen play at high levels into at least their early thirties. I expect that the line will improve their pass pro by a lot, and their run blocking somewhat.
marpag1
November 09, 2015 at 06:45 am
That's the thing for me too. I just can't explain how the O-line has been sucking so bad. It makes no sense and yet I can't deny that, yep, they are indeed sucking....
I though the O-line was the biggest problem in Denver too, not receivers failing to get open etc.
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:00 am
I agree packer-Pete; I see 2 losses to Minne, loss v cowboys and cardinals. But I'm not confident that they'll beat Detro in Michigan, nor Oakland. I know I'll get roasted for that when everyone says bah, Detro is washed-up, that Stafford/Megatron team, but see, they said that about Manning, Newton and their no-WRs worth fearing.
My prediction at beginning of year was 10-6. But now I'd say 9-7.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:43 am
6-2 the remainder of the season, losses Dec. 20 @Oakland and Dec. 27 @Arizona.
The Vikings could easily lose their next 5 in a row. Teddy is concussed, and they are offensively challenged to begin with: The Vikings remaining schedule in order:
@Oakland - L
Green Bay - L
@Atlanta - L
Seattle - L
@Arizona (short week) - L
Chicago - W
Giants - W
@Green Bay - L
Looks like 2-6 for the norsemen to me.
GVPacker
November 08, 2015 at 04:36 pm
Cam Newton is Amazing! He can throw 50 yard Bombs with Pin Point Accuracy and then miss an open receiver 10 yards away, He really is Stuper-Man!
Mojo
November 08, 2015 at 05:49 pm
He does what a lot of QB's should do on the long balls, that is throw it far and with a lot of air under the ball. It gives the receiver a chance while basically shutting out the CB from intercepting since he would have to go through the receiver.
Newton was good on the slants and deep balls, but horrible on nearly everything else. That team is not going to go far in the playoffs. It might not seem like it right now, but this could be a good opponent for the Pack later on.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:56 pm
I heartily agree. I think GB wins a rematch and probably easily.
Lphill
November 08, 2015 at 04:37 pm
1 let Aaron call all plays
2. Dom Capers must retire.
3.shame on Ted Thompson for not drafting a inside linebacker or bring in some veteran help.
4. Richard Rodgers is not an NFL player
5. This is a 10 win team, nothing more .
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 04:43 pm
"let Aaron call all plays" - really? I think he is the main force behind the 'hold the ball for 12 seconds to hit the long play' thinking...
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:44 pm
1.Offensive play calling is not the problem.
2.Dom is not the problem
3.He did draft an inside linebacker
4.Because he had a bad game? Take away that first TD of his and imagine how the game could have turned out.
5.Well, the last time they won te....never mind.
EdsLaces
November 08, 2015 at 04:50 pm
The guy with two tds m..yeah he sucks.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:52 pm
Right?
Did he not bail Rodgers out on that 1st one?
EdsLaces
November 09, 2015 at 07:04 am
Yep. I don't understand the RR hate. HD has at least 4 or 5 tds that I remember this year. Yeah he's not fast or an amazing blocker but by God he gets open in the freakin red zone. I don't see cobb or jones or davante doin crap in the endzone. People want to talk bad about RR well guess what without his big slow @$$ we are 5-3 or 4-4.
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:05 am
I agree Lphill;
At beginning of season, I thought it was a 10-6 team, but I revise to 9-7.
The lack of ILB (except for the patchwork solution of CMIII) and TE were so obvious before the draft, I was sure that those were the 2 positions to go get FAs, AND address in the draft.
I am now convinced Capers has to go. I believe he should be fired mid-season. Period. That means before Detro game next week.
NickPerry
November 09, 2015 at 07:00 am
Unless TT is somewhat active in Free Agency this is going to be the Green Bay Packers, holes at enough positions where they get hammered by top teams in the NFL. Capers is no different than Slocum, McCarthy will keep waiting until he's hit in the head with a 2x4. You can't JUST draft and develop and fill ALL the holes, you'll never catch up. As soon as you have that position fixed you're leaking in 2 others.
Obviously to change eveything up at midseason isn't going to work and there's not a assistant I'd want leading the defense except maybe Joe Whitt. With that said if Capers isn't fired the last Sunday the Packers play, then the whole dame bunch needs to be fired. Murphy, Thompson, and McCarthy, because only FOOLS would continue to allow Capers coach.
I'd have Jim Schwartz on Speed Dial so I was the first to call. Buffalos defense last years was unreal. Ryan let Schwartz go and his defense is only ranked 17th, Schwartz was #4 last year.
jbromusic
November 08, 2015 at 04:41 pm
LEAVE THE KITTENS ALONE AARON!!!!!!!
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 04:50 pm
disappointing? Yes, no doubt, absolutely.
Lets not forget they played quite possibly the 2 best Defenses. in a row, on the road, where it gives the Home D a huge advantage. It can't possibly get more difficult going forward.
Tough loss for sure, but it seemed they started to figure things out In the 2nd half and the D (gave the ball back to the Offense) mostly did its part.
chugwater
November 08, 2015 at 06:23 pm
Was thinking that myself. Maybe wishful thinking, but hopefully the second half play revealed a wrinkle or two they can build on.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:32 pm
Carolina has a good defense, but I don't think they're in any way in the talk of being one of the best defenses in the league.
They're definitely top 1/3 of the league, though.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:26 pm
One of the 2 or 3 best DL. Keuchly and Davis at LB and one of the best CB in the NFL? I think that qualifies as one of the best Defenses in the NFL. Other than Denver they have as strong a case as anyone IMO.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:24 pm
Carolina leads the league in INTs, and is number 4 in sacks, but other than that they fail to crack the top ten in total defense, pass defense, rush defense, etc and so forth, most of the statistics that people lean on for determining the overall stoutness of a defense.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:28 pm
The Carolina offense leaves them on the field far too long. Defenses get worn out at the end of the game. It almost happened again today. Soon it'll catch up w/ them, but it doesn't change that they are one of the better Defenses in the NFL.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:49 pm
Carolina's offense is #13 in time of possession in the league, and their defense is smack dab in the middle at #16.
Looks like their D is on the field for 30:09 a game.
I don't know that you can call that far too long. Kind of a stretch.
"Far too average", is that a thing? Let's make that a thing. Carolina's offense, which is in control of the ball longer than 60% of the NFL, is leaving the Carolina defense on the field for a far too average amount of time.
See, that's about right.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 07:26 pm
That is the thing to remember. These last 2 games the Packers have faced 2 of the best defenses on the road. It's not easy to go on the road, and especially against very good defenses.
They looked dreadful for most of the game, but they can take some positives from this game. They might have found something in the second half. In their come back they were able to move the ball well against a good defense. And their defense stepped up when it needed them the most.
Hopefully they will take the momentum they started in the 4th quarter comeback into next week.
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:14 am
Take positives from the game? Build on momentum? That has no basis for future wins. Any team can make a furious rally out of desperation. But had MM installed a 2-minute offense on the first 3-4 series, they could have neutralized the pass rush, tired the caro d, and then start running and mixing. You know, change pace and keep Caro d guessing. But I'm pessimistic going forward because coaches haven't learned a darn thing all year. So no, it isn't a matter of finding some positives. The GB coaches have gotten outcoached once September ended.
RCPackerFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:21 am
Coaches definitely haven't been good.
McCarthy keeps talking about consistency. Well where is the consistency by the play callers and overall game management?
Plays need to executed properly no matter what the call is, but play calling needs adjust to what is happening in the game. If your team is struggling doing something, you need to adjust your play calling to make it work.
For example, the Panthers were getting pressure with their front 4, but also were sending a lot of blitzes. What is the one thing that works well against that type of defense, and helps slow down the pass rush? The screen pass. Why did it take until the 4th quarter for the Packers to run a screen pass?
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 04:51 pm
Let's talk about the last 3 minutes or so of this game. How do you all feel about going for the touchdown on the 4th down attempts instead of 3 and burning that 2nd timeout??? I knew that sh*t would bite us one game. I forgot which article I posted it in.
acularw
November 08, 2015 at 05:27 pm
They needed a touchdown anyway. They have a better chance with 4 tries at goal to go than almost any other scenario later in the game.
You see this all the time where teams kick the FG instead of going for it on 4th and 2, then later in the game when they get the ball back at the end they have to go for it on 4th and 10.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:35 pm
True.
I just felt like we had a better chance to win while avoiding OT if we kicked the field goal, kept the 2 timeouts and forced another punt (or turnover). Remember, we shifted all of the momentum with that INT.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:39 pm
I agree, Drealyn.
It was a big gamble- the way I saw it, you needed two scores either way with limited time on the clock. If you go for it on 4th down and score a TD, that's great- you needed it. If you go for it and convert, Hey, you keep the drive alive and give yourself more chances to score, but at the expense of time/TOs you probably can't spare. If you go for it on 4th and fail to convert or score, the game is effectively over.
Kicking the field goal saves the most time and it ensures you still have a chance to win the game. Getting into the red zone and failing to walk away with points would have been a complete disaster.
Part of me liked the emotional commitment to go for it (we're betting it all on this play), but I think the wisest decision when looking at the possible outcomes was to take 3 points.
Oh well, it almost worked out regardless.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:53 am
I wholeheartedly agree Drealyn. Using the 2nd timeout in that series precluded a FG attempt, which seemed to be the proper play.
In a different situation that Packers fans are familiar with, I thought the Broncos should have let the Colts score the TD with about 2 minutes left last night. It would have put them down two scores, but they had no TOs and Indy was clearly going to run the clock down. At least Denver would have had an opportunity to score and try the on-side kick.
acularw
November 09, 2015 at 12:53 pm
Again, I don't see how you can think that a FG there helps other than to stop the clock and give the ball to the other team. The Panthers could score or completely kill the clock, we have no idea at the time.
It is hard to imagine a better situation for getting a TD than four goal-to-go chances...
DrealynWilliams
November 09, 2015 at 02:00 pm
You're right. No one knew what could have happened. But that's football. I'm not saying what's right or wrong. I'm just stating what I thought could have worked.
"It is hard to imagine a better situation for getting a TD than four goal-to-go chances..."
When time is not on your side,you're past the 2-minute warning with 1 timeout left, you're pretty much putting it all on this drive and putting it all on a 2-point conversion. If we had failed the 2-point conversion, then we would have been forced to attempt an onside.
If we had taken the 3 and kept two timeouts we could have kicked off regularly and forced the Panthers to run. Remember, Cam just threw a stupid INT. We could have gotten the ball back with a rolling Offense on the way to a game winning TD. I feel this way gave the team more chances.
GVPacker
November 08, 2015 at 04:52 pm
Can't understand Thompson's reluctance to pickup Vernon Davis!
dobber
November 08, 2015 at 05:06 pm
Just because the deal was in place for Denver doesn't mean it would have been there for GB.
Please do give us another head-case TE who can't stay healthy and is way past his prime.
dobber
November 08, 2015 at 05:08 pm
Just because the deal was in place for Denver doesn't mean it would have been there for GB.
Please do give us another head-case TE who can't stay healthy and is way past his prime.
vj_ostrowski
November 08, 2015 at 05:15 pm
Their game is half over and Davis doesn't have a catch yet.
I'm not happy about how GB looks right now, but this myth that Vernon Davis would have changed things is infuriating. The guys isn't good.
KenEllis
November 08, 2015 at 05:20 pm
Must not follow the Pack much then. TT is reluctant to take on ANY player who has ever played for another NFL team. We have 4 and 1 of them, James Jones, was only on the Raiders for a year.
We may not win the Super Bowl, but we do win the most homegrown players contest each and every season. In fact, it is not even close.
justinritzel1
November 08, 2015 at 05:56 pm
You mean Owen Daniels?
He's the guy TT had in Green Bay. Not sure why he left without a deal.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:09 pm
I missed the presser when Ted Thompson issued the statement, "Vernon Davis? I'm reluctant to pick him up. Not only have we not inquired about Vernon Davis' availability, we actually proactively called San Fransisco and told them, 'Please, don't call us to ask if we're interested in working something out for Vernon Davis. Save your breath, we're reluctant."
Just out of curiosity, where's the posters with messages like, "Can't understand Tom Telesco's reluctance to pick up Clay Matthews"?
It's got about as much traction and validity as all this made up conjecture about Ted Thompson not going after Vernon Davis.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 05:03 pm
yep, the resident Vikings fan is happy, no doubt about that...
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 06:43 pm
Have you heard the expression that even a broken clock has the correct time twice a day?
Cow speaks doom and gloom year in, year out. He's no great evaluator of talent. When you predict bad things all the time, I guess you look like a genius when the team goes through a down period.
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:55 am
I'm pretty sure gorman's oglivie is cow.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 05:07 pm
Ok, I probably shouldn't do this. But I'm making a bold prediction right now. Packers will lose the next 2. They'll win the 2 after that. And yes, I know some of you will say it's ridiculous since the next one is at home to the lowly Lions, but I am quite sure megatron will have a mega game next week.
Overall, they'll go 4-5 for the rest of the season. W against Bears, At Lions, vs Cowboys, At Raiders. Lose the rest, including the 1 playoff game they'll have.
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:27 am
Not totally agreed;
Yes, its a clear trend that opposing QBs and WRs have breakout games against GB D. So, Megatron and Stafford will light it up as they haven't all season. Maybe career day. But GB beats Detro twice. Lose to Minne twice. Lose to Cards and cowboys. I'd say Oakland can beat GB right now.
There are 8 games left....so going 3-5 down the stretch is how I have it. So 9-7 misses the playoffs, but maybe they get in as wildcard at 10-6.
Nerd
November 08, 2015 at 05:16 pm
THE FOUNDATION FOR THE NEW DIRECTION OF THE GREEN BAY PACKERS WILL BE CONSTRUCTED WITH THREE KEY COMPONENTS OF OBTAINING "PACKER PEOPLE," CREATING "STABLE STRUCTURE" AND CONCENTRATING ON "CHARACTER AND CHEMISTRY."
A POSITIVE ENVIRONMENT WILL BE CREATED WITH "LEADERSHIP" THAT KEEPS ITS EYE ON THE TARGET OF ESTABLISHING A CHAMPIONSHIP FOOTBALL TEAM.
THE DIRECTION WILL BE FUELED WITH CONSTANT COMMUNICATION TO ENSURE EVERYONE IS ON BOARD. WE WILL ATTACK THE VOYAGE WITH ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM TO OVERCOME THE OBSTACLES THAT WE WILL ENCOUNTER.
THIS VISION IS ENHANCED WITH RESOURCES AND TRADITION THAT STANDS IN THE FOREFRONT OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS.
I AM HONORED AND PRIVILEGED FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEAD THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ON A NEW JOURNEY BACK TO THE PINNACLE THAT BEARS THE NAME OF "COACH LOMBARDI."
Justin Ritzel
November 08, 2015 at 05:18 pm
What isnt being talked about enough is just how bad the offensive line has played over the past few weeks – this was supposed to be the strength of the offense. McCarthy referred to this group as the "best O-line" he has ever had. I know there has been some injuries – Bulaga missed some time and I figure both him and Bahktiari arent 100% – but even Sitton has struggled and he is the rock. Improve the blocking, and the rest will come. It is head-scratching that it took them so long to utilize a HB screen...
Can we stop with splitting out R. Rodgers (did it with Perillo a few times as well) out wide? These guys are not Jermichael Finley. It seems like a wasted play every time Rodgers is targeted when split out.
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 05:44 pm
The OL play has been horrendous. The final play of they block we likely will get a TD with a wide open Cobb.
I'm not happy with the play calling. Each week it feels like they are running the same thing over and over again from 2nd quarter until the 4th quarter.
Might be time for McCarthy to take play calling over again.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 06:29 pm
I agree with you, but there were probably 80% of Packers fans who celebrated when Mike announced he wouldn't call the plays anymore. We have a saying where I'm coming from - "nothing better is ever going to follow". Clements is not a good play caller. I am also sick of always hearing how there is nobody in the NFL at QB who can diagnose opposing blitzers as well as #12. Not seeing that lately...
RCPackerFan
November 08, 2015 at 07:36 pm
I have always liked McCarthy as a play caller. I just thought at times he got into a rut.
I don't know if it's the play calling that is the problem, but something isn't right.
Plays seem to be getting in late, forcing them to burn timeouts. They seem to stop doing what is working, (fullback pass in the game today). And are stuck doing the somethings over and over. They need to get more diverse in play calling, formations and personnel.
And why did it take till the 4th quarter to run a screen pass? Surprisingly after it worked they used it again.
EdsLaces
November 09, 2015 at 07:11 am
Loved that pass to Rip!
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:32 am
RC PackerFan; its not so much the play calling as installing the right game strategy and concepts to neutralize or exploit opposing D. That is the failure.
RCPackerFan
November 09, 2015 at 01:19 pm
Yeah, i just know what they are doing, isn't working.
They are struggling to figure out how to use their players it feels like.
marpag1
November 09, 2015 at 07:01 am
I think there are plenty of people who agree with you about the poor O-line play. I certainly do. But after a tough loss it's usually hard to hear anything over the din of the "Mike McCarthy must die" crowd.
DrealynWilliams
November 08, 2015 at 05:59 pm
Lol, I did too. My top lip twitched.
I think he's going to bounce back though. This entire team will.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 06:31 pm
Especially when it was clear today that Starks was "the hot hand". But I guess coaches like to bang their heads against the wall. Or maybe the players are such fragile minds that one cannot take them out for more than 5 plays without them going into the pouting mode and not producing for the rest of the year.
Lphill
November 08, 2015 at 05:28 pm
listen friends stop being Homers, this is the team, built with high expectations for 5 th and 6 th round picks and un- signed free agents, The organization feels they have Aaron on one side and Clay on the other and that's all we need, well sorry to disappoint but its not working, like the Nate Palmer experiment, Capers is not up to speed for today's NFL. Richard Rodgers does more harm then good, not to mention how slow he is and how easy he goes down. Stop watching through Green and Gold glasses . Another lost season for number 12.
That’sWhatCheesehead
November 08, 2015 at 05:36 pm
This team plays completely different on the road. Without home field advantage, they just don't have the fire or leader to inspire them to play up to their abilities at all times. Would love to see how someone like Woodson could make a difference as a vocal leader.
tobinrote
November 08, 2015 at 05:48 pm
the great old man charles is leading the league in interceptions; and he though not very fast for past 5 years, just simply understands the game. still i guess you could not pay him what he was scheduled to make. too bad.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 06:32 pm
#12 sees his QB coach as his personal waterboy. Simple as that.
marpag1
November 09, 2015 at 07:12 am
LOL. Uh, I think my money would have been on Rodgers.....
Thegreatreynoldo
November 08, 2015 at 05:52 pm
Cobb is a nice player. Adams did not prove that he is a #3 WR last year, and has not done so yet this year - but there is hope that he will develop as he has only had a season and a half minus some games he has been injured. Looks like our initial expectations for James Jones were correct despite his early production (talk about Rodgers throwing a guy open and making tough contested catches - most also thought he would help in the red zone. Jones looks like he is a #3 or #4. The coaches refuse to play Janis and Abby so it is pointless really to argue about them. The talent at WR who get on the field is substandard. Rodgers and Perillo can catch but not get open. Need to scheme these folks open. I like what Monty might bring coming out of the back field, but he needs to be healthy as he will have to rush the ball some to make that formation dangerous.
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:36 am
Exactly
badaxed
November 08, 2015 at 06:07 pm
Poor coaching.
Poor line play on both sides of the ball.
Poor coverage on mediocre receivers.
Poor execution by both offense and defense.
This team cannot win against good teams.
Mojo
November 08, 2015 at 06:22 pm
There were so many people open for the Panthers but thanks to Newton's wildness they left a ton of plays on the field.
No pressure from the inside or out. Even on blitzes. Three weeks in a row.
Richard Rodgers is a miss.
Eddie Lacy's fallen off the face of the Earth.
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 07:57 pm
Ya, if Cam hadn't been erratic he would have put at least 14 more on the board for sure. He had guys wide open and he over threw them badly. It was embarrasing but confirmed what I knew, the packers have no pass defense at all. Its the achiles heel of this team and will be until Ted gets some players. Demetri Goodson? Who the hell is that? Randall, I thought he was a one pick. He was the one Cam picked on that's for sure.
MissKathy
November 08, 2015 at 06:22 pm
Reading these comments about wasting Rodgers' years with us and it's deja vu to the Favre years. EXACT same narrative.
Here's my take on today's & last week's game (granted I am no guru. Feel free to correct me)...
1. DB's playing 5 yards off in man coverage doesn't work. Never has, never will unless you have speed and correct angle. Coaching has to correct that, players have to execute it. If that means these men sit all night with their heads in a playbook comparing tape to written fundamentals, so be it.
2. Tackling high is a waste of energy. You cannot bring a 200+# man with a headful of steam down with your arms around his shoulders. Go for the hips & feet. To me, that's basic fundamentals and I hold the players responsible for horrible execution.
3. What we loved and hated about Favre was his chance taking. Enough with the "Rodgers doesn't trust him" crappola. Dammit, they're there on the field for you to use. USE THEM. To hell with "trust". If they aren't catching the ball, the coaches need to correct it. If Rodgers has to spend multiple evenings at some grade school yard tossing the ball to his players, then he should do it. It's not a 9-5 job. Again, execution on the players' part. Get in your damn playbook. Those routes should be muscle memory by now and even I know you have to look the ball in.
4. When did Rodgers get happy feet? I'm sorry, but he's seeing ghosts because the tackles are letting guys by. I'll give some slack on Bulaga's knee, but dammit, then give them some help. And DBak isn't probowl bound anytime soon. I see that Lacy was brought in to help block late in the 4th. What the hell do we have Kuhn & Ripkowski for?
5. Speaking of DBak..if I see him stand up and point when there's a free play because of offsides one more time, I'm going to punch a wall. Let it play out..that's what the zebras are for. Plus, it gives a reason for the flag to be thrown on him if the ref misses it. (How many times have we seen that in the last two games? 3? 4?)
6. (and certainly not last) McCarthy BETTER resume playcalling immediately. Clements is in over his head.
MissKathy
November 08, 2015 at 06:33 pm
that said...I LOVE this team & I believe they will make the necessary corrections and go forward with confidence, swagger and a big ol' chip on their collective embarrassed shoulders. GO PACK GO
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 07:53 pm
I agree with a lot of what you said except one thing. Capers cannot make the guys Ted drafts, faster, taller, more agile and able to cover one on one. That is not possibly with inferior players. Acquib Taleb doesn't need to be taught how to cover or hit the snot out of someone. Point made
Lphill
November 08, 2015 at 06:54 pm
Other teams plug in Young receivers and they make plays , why is Janis a project? Just throw him the damn ball . Brady has different receivers every season , how much time does Aaron need with someone to feel comfortable?
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:15 pm
Other teams plug in young receivers who are actually good WR's and they make plays.
Jeff Janis coming out of college was not a very good WR.
He's a small school guy who put up good numbers in college because he was bigger and faster than most of the Division II talent he was competing against. But if you watch his college highlights (his HIGHLIGHTS, mind you), it was filled with poor route running and sloppy body catches.
Physically, he's a beast, and it was enough for him to overwhelm lesser DII talent.
His Technique was poor, and at the NFL level, everyone is big, fast, and strong. Technique is what separates the pros from the pretenders.
Janis has a lot more work to do than a lot of other 'young WRs' who other teams plug in that make plays.
Plus, Rodgers doesn't trust him ;)
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:23 pm
Every year Brady has Gronk to demand double and more coverage. Packers had one player, Jordy who is currently on IR that demands more than single coverage. Gronk gives Brady the deep threat the Packers currently do not have! Some teams don't require that some receivers be able to run a complete route tree. Some do.
Different philosophies and I doubt you can prove one is better than the other.
But if your throwing Brady out there, just remember he has one of the best seam busting TE to EVER play in the NFL!
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 07:27 pm
Tom Brady has been doing it with no-name WR corps for 3 times longer than Gronk has been in the league.
That's kind of factual. It's not like Tom Brady and the Pats offense is johnny-come-lately.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 08:06 pm
Before Gronk they had Randy Moss and prior to that they had a pretty damn good running game. Brady does for NE alot of what Rodgers does for the Packers. Even if you don't want to acknowledge it.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 08:22 pm
So let's be clear on this, for the first half of Brady's career (that time period when the Pats won 3 superbowls in 4 years), and Brady didn't have Randy Moss or Rob Gronkowski, it was the Pat's pretty damn good running game that made their passing offense good despite having no big time deep threat receivers.
Okay, any other qualifiers you feel the need to tack on there before we seal this one up?
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 08:50 pm
Nope you made my case just fine. THank You!
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 09:05 pm
Just to recap, your case was originally that Brady gets it done with young, no-name WRs because 'every year' he has the leagues best seam busting TE running routes commanding double teams.
When I pointed out that Brady has been running the offense for literally 3 times as long as Gronk has been in the league, you said, "well he had Moss before that."
When I pointed out that for the first half of Brady's career, he didn't have Gronk or Moss, but still managed to run a highly effective passing offense with 'no-name' WRs that resulted in 3 SB wins in 4 years, you then shifted to 'well, he had a pretty damn good running game.'
Was the case I just made for you that you're changing your argument every time I point out that it's a flawed argument? If so, then yes, I sure proved you right.
Side note: I'm pretty sure you just chastised another poster in this thread for continually changing their argument, or am I mistaken?
DrealynWilliams
November 09, 2015 at 12:12 am
Niiiiice
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 02:50 am
In 2002, Brady had Antowain Smith (982 yards), and troy Brown, David Patten and a young Deion Branch (43 recs for 489 yds.). Meh.
In 2004 Corey Dillon had a good year running 1639 yards. WRs were Givens, Patten and Branch again. Good running game.
In 2005, Dillon rushed for all of 739 (3.5 yds/carry). WRs were Branch (78 recs -12.8 ave), Givens (59 - 12.5), and Brown (39 - 11.9) and a ton of guys with 30 receptions or so. No, Brady did it with meh WRs and meh running game.
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 08:01 pm
I still say its either Roers does not like him or he can't learn the play book. Bigger question, where is Ty Mont and why is Lacy not the number 3 guy now. He has played himself out of the starting and out of number 2. Its that dam stuborness of the coaches, oh we have to play him he was a 2 pick.
He is totally out of football shape and not ready for the NFL at this point. I think Montgomery is the same, too frail for the NFL punishment and they don't know what to do with him.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 08:12 pm
Montgomery is injured, and they know exactly what to do with him- they have him in rehab and when he's healthy they'll play him.
It's football, people get injured. How the Eff do you figure a 6'0", 220 lbs WR is "too frail" for NFL punishment? That kid plays like a tank out there. Are you even a Packers fan?
WKUPackFan
November 09, 2015 at 07:59 am
Most other teams suck (I hate using that word). What's your point?
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 07:03 pm
I really still am totally pi**ed. Look, I live down here in Carolina. I know the Panthers are a good team. But at the same time, after seeing the blowout last week, I heard all the talk about how those guys are upset and would come out and give it all. What a bunch of BS. Listless, emotionless, except for fighting among themselves on the sideline, and generally not too concerned about winning or losing. And quite frankly, not good enough to play on the same field as a good team.
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 07:51 pm
Maybe the team is realizing that hey, they aren't very good. Truth may be if the first six teams we played had passed the ball more, we might not have six wins. Teams now understand you beat the Packers via the pass and by rushing Rogers and playing man in close coverage. Its just that simple. Get ahead early with some deep passes then pressure Rogers the rest of the game.
I noticed they only rushed 4 more of the time and yet got a lot of pressure on Rogers. So much for the O line.
ollie418
November 08, 2015 at 07:24 pm
Game changing play:
3rd and 16 for Panthers. Packers lead 7 -3.
Then comes, as mentioned in the article above, a stupid three man rush. Heck, they could not get to Newton with 5 and 6 rushing. If, yes I am saying if, they get the ball back it is a different ball game.
All of that said, Capers has to go. His Defenses are getting gashed for big plays. Receivers are wide open all day and it is awful to watch.
Bye Bye Capers!
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 07:37 pm
If HHCD plays that play correctly it doesn't get completed. Blame the coach all you want, but it just shows you don't know. HHCD BLEW that play and bit on a shorter route, when his most important job was to stay deeper than the deepest receiver!
Probably why he got into a shouting match w/ Peppers and Raji! They told him he F'ed up, and it wasn't the only time.
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 07:48 pm
Dix has no clue and never did. Packer fans think he is so hot and I have him pegged as a total loser. All he does is stand in center field and watch the ball. He does nothing in pass coverage and once in a while comes to the line on a sure run play and try to make a tackle.
He is a total waste of time.
ollie418
November 08, 2015 at 07:53 pm
I know that a three man rush, when utilized by GB never works.
Packer_Pete
November 08, 2015 at 08:04 pm
Maybe. But that was also the only time anybody saw anything from either Raji or Peppers today...
And while HHCD plays this wrong, that guy was not his guy to initially cover.
AZPack
November 08, 2015 at 08:47 pm
The CB who's "guy" it was played the play very well. He was in position and played to the Safety being in the right place. The Safety wasn't there to make the play to the inside of the WR. That's how CB are taught... Play the route to your help, which is exactly what Randall did. HHCD has talent but he isn't yet always making the right play yet.
Trying to change arguments now talking about Raji and Peppers doesn't help your case.
Since'61
November 08, 2015 at 09:20 pm
Dan -your comment about HHCD is spot on, he blew the play. This defense has been giving up big 3rd down plays at the worst time for years. In the NFCC at Seattle Capers decides to rush 2! on 3rd and 19 after 2 sacks with a four man rush. Seattle converts, then the fake FG for a TD and the rest is a bad memory for all us. Yesterday rush 3, HHCD blows it and Panthers drive for a go ahead TD. Capers has been wrong for too long. Game was over at halftime. Thanks, Since '61
D Ernesto
November 08, 2015 at 07:45 pm
First, this is not a talented football team, Certainly no where where the packer fans on this site place them. How about some reality.
First, watch some of the the other teams and nto just packer games and see what they are doing on both offense and defense.
Second, ask yourselft, Goodson. Wood he be a player on any other team in the NFL. Randall, if he was such a great pick why are teams picking on him. Why were he and Gooson picked on as easy targets, easy ways to get get down field fast.
In the game I saw the Packers strugglesd to score and thePanthers did it in three pass plays and a run. Ditto Denver game.
This team has no pass defense. None. Doesn't matter what Raji, Mathews, Perry or anyone on the D line does, the O gets its all back and more in one long pass play.
Last, ask yourself just what the hell does Clinton Dix do? I have yet to see him close on a receiver and breat up a play. He is just standing around.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 08:04 pm
Just curious, but did you know that Goodson is considered to be the #5 or #6 CB on the depth chart (depending on if you classify Hyde as a CB or not), the only CB lower on the depth chart is Ladarius Gunter, the undrafted rookie free agent?
The only reason he had significant snaps tonight was because both Shields and Rollins are out with injury.
If you are asking me if I think Demetrius Goodson could compete for the #6 CB position on another NFL team, I'd say I'm not sure, because most NFL teams never have their #6 CB on the field to begin with.
Lastly, nowhere before has anyone stated, "This is not a talented football team" in reference to a 6-2 ball club.
Hard times? Sure. Not Talented? Please, GTFOH.
Oppy
November 08, 2015 at 08:02 pm
Moved comment to where it belongs
FITZCORE1252
November 08, 2015 at 09:09 pm
What happened to the pass rush? What the hell happened to the O line? Wtf?
croatpackfan
November 09, 2015 at 06:37 am
That must be either schemes, or play calling from Dom Capers. You know that he is guilty for everything, so why not for that too? I bet he told to our DL and our blitzes something like: "Just pretend that you try to make pass rush or sack. I was HC of this team. I prefer them to win. Do not disturb Cam Newton!"
carusotrap
November 09, 2015 at 08:14 am
The opponents have figured out our O-line. They are rushing from the edges where the O-line needs speed to pick it up. This collapses the pocket from the edges and keeps AR from using his feet. If the play is a run, the RB can't bounce outside or cut back (although Starks looks OK). None of this is the issue, though. The real problem is that when this becomes obvious, our coaches have no answer in response. Or more likely, they choose not to adjust. There's something fundamental and admirable about sticking with a game plan, but GB sticks to a game plan with no prospect for a Plan B. Other teams see this.
And just as an observation, MM had a play sheet in his hands in the 2nd half. I wonder if he was calling some plays or relaying them to Clements...could that have been the delay in getting the plays called?
And where was the no-huddle? It seems we used it only 3-4 times, and when we did, it worked or drew a penalty.
Finally, if they throw it downfield 50 yards on 3rd and 2 one more time, I am going after the aforementioned kittens.
Spiderpack
November 08, 2015 at 09:22 pm
Nothing about the Packers resembles a good team. Aaron Rodgers is like a bobber barely floating above water. So I'm glad we are not completely drowned.
Icebowler
November 08, 2015 at 09:23 pm
The Panthers hit on their long pass attempts in the first half and we didn't. Furthermore, the Panthers realized early on that the refs were "letting them play" down field and we didn't.
johngalt
November 08, 2015 at 10:08 pm
Very happy none of you are on the packers coaching staff, or in any way shape the future of this team. At the slightest sniff of adversity- you all crumble as fans. Great teams overcome adversity. This is a great team.
Kyle McDaniel
November 08, 2015 at 10:43 pm
First of all I just want to say I'm a die hard green bay packers fanatic I went to lambeau 10 years ago when I was 19 yrs old and absolutely fell in love with the pack I eat sleep breathe packer football and I was born and raised and still live in charleston south carolina and I despise the panthers don't know why but I always have but me and my dad were at the game in Charlotte today and to be honest it was hard to watch yea we came back in the 4th but let's face reality we really got our ass kicked for the 2nd game in a row the packers I saw today are not the same team I watched start out 5-0 and even though we beat San Diego to go to 6-0 something just started to unravel that game like seriously we have no grunt no attitude people are just pushing us around I had panthers fans asking me where in the hell have the packers gone today I don't know if there's a issue in the locker room or if it's just were really not executing whatever it is its got to be fixed we are wayyyy to good and have soooo much talent to perform like this I just want them to win soooo bad and it doesn't matter if we lose every game from here on out I'll always walk out of my house Monday morning packered down head to toe and I will always take pride in being a cheesehead I just want to start playing the way were capable of playing cause if we do we can play with anybody and beat anybody in the NFL so lets fix this shit!!!!!!! GO PACK GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kmcdgbpack30
November 09, 2015 at 10:58 am
Oh yea and one more thing I heard on sportscenter this morning fired me up and I hope the team heard it and it lights a fire under them but they said that Scam Newton actually grabbed a banner from a packers fan that said "this is packers country" and he ripped it up and the only thing Scam Newton had to say was no panthers fan had a banner that said "this is panthers country" last year when they played at lambeau??? That's how arrogant this guy is.. now I'll give credit where it's do he's a very good player but I swear I wish somebody would knock him off his high horse and I hope it's one of the packers
porupack
November 09, 2015 at 12:50 am
242 comments. This must be a record or something on CHTV? Game must have struck a few nerves.
4thand10
November 09, 2015 at 02:22 am
Yes...it hit a few nerves, at least with me. The adjustments came way way way too late. I love the Packers, but I have never been a fan of Capers. People make fun of the "fire Capers " crowd and buy way too much into Vic's " Players make Plays BS. Yes...players make plays...that's a given. But look at it this way....Patriots (which I Hate) had not a single 1st rounder on offense and they are straight up manhandling teams. So I don't buy into how scheme is over rated or of little consequence and that it's all on the players.
It took the Packers ALL the way until after half time...to run crossing routes and screens to beat bliz and man coverage...in which they should have learned from the last game. They put up 20+ points just by making an adjustment(incorporating screens and crossing routes)....thats playcalling...not the players.
Then....EVERYONE knows good tight end play can kill a 3-4...especially since your only rushing 3 and giving an aging aging Greg Olson multiple free-releases off the LOS. They waited all the way until the third quarter to bracket cover him and shut him down. We have injuries in the secondary...why, for the love of God is there only 2 DLs and 2 LBs on the LOS? What is wrong with Base 3-4 or more 4-3 under? The way capers coaches....instead of the safeties just covering protecting the big play...they are peeking in the backfield way too much because stopping the run or Mobil QB's has kept killing them in the past due to lack of pressure. How can we have Clay, Peppers, Raji back, Perry....All good players and still suck? Are they in a funk? I don't think so....its play calling. IF we are going to be this dismal on defense...I would rather see Capers be gone and we just run a 4-3 cover 3...at least that way we won't have to worry about seeing safeties and CB's/DB's tackling RB's on a weekly basis because the front is not getting it done. Greg Olson looked like Tony Gonzales today and there was no reason for it.
croatpackfan
November 09, 2015 at 06:33 am
Your argument for making guilty on calls are truly argument for players not executing, for miscommunication, for lot of other things... I will not say that playcalling was OK, but OL heavily underperformed on the second game in the row... On the other side of the ball, last 2 games pass rush was non existing, our blitzes were out of space and time, because they were to slow and easily cut. That is why average passer like Newton had time to put the ball on the right spots for his receivers... And I tend to believe that feud on the sideline was all about that. Peppers was complaining about secondary and safety plays, and Ha-Ha was giving him back their lack of production! The schemes and playcalling does not have anything with underperformance of the players...
some_guy
November 09, 2015 at 02:48 am
it's ok guys you can't go 12-4 without losing 2 games herpity derp derp durrrrr
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 03:08 am
For those who point to MM's winning % when asked if he is a good HC, stats aren't everything. Case in point:
GB scored 29 points today, which would be good for 3rd best for average points per game. There were no defensive points, and no short fields, IIRC. [Randall's INT was at the 25, but we didn't score on it - we'd have kicked a FG if it had occurred earlier in the game.]
Conclusion based on the stats: nothing is wrong with the coaching as it pertains to offense. 29 points are a lot of points. Nothing to see here. But my eyes tell me something else: GB had a bad game plan with adjustments made much too late. Verdict: bad coaching.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 09, 2015 at 03:17 am
I agree that Aaron Rodgers has developed "happy feet." Then again, he got hit on 29% of his pass attempts. I haven't seen the total pressure %, but I expect it to be astronomical. 14 hits on 48 attempts is going to cause problems. I don't blame this loss on Rodgers at all. Someone mentioned that Rodgers isn't even seeing or anticipating the rush, but that is hard to do when the pressure is coming from the left, the right, and right up the gut. As he usually does, Rodgers avoided a several sacks, but today he could not roll out or get his eyes downfield due to the massive rush.
croatpackfan
November 09, 2015 at 05:05 am
Oh, wow... I will not discuss what was that, I want to say what I saw. A lot of positive stuff.... Like Aaron Ripkowski showed he will be real deal. He got one chance and he did not blow it - one catch, 18 yards. Second, Jake Ryan finally get some extended play time - Packers D looked somehow fixed. Jake Ryan is team leader with 6 solo and 4 combined tackles. Do not forget, he played just the part of the game... Randall made some big mistakes, hey, but he is rookie! Those mistakes made Newton to make mistake. He throw not so well pass in the direction of so so rookie and he was intercepted! Only pitty Randall did not manage to do pick six! See, those players are Packers future - not far future. Near future. Because of that I'm all for using Josh Walker and Rotheram as guards to replace T.J. and Josh. For one, two games. To gave the opportunity to veterans to refresh themselves. Also, I'm happy to see Ty Montgomery will come back, too. So another rookie with perfect start for Packers. Abby and Jeff should be involved in game with Lions more. Let give James Jones and Davante Adams and Randall Cobb some time to rest and heal themselves. Packers are loaded with young talents already ready to perform! Go, Pack, Go!