An Andy Herman Experiment: Would You Rather Have Tampa’s or Green Bay’s Last Decade?

I wanted to spend some time today on what was, I thought, a very interesting thought experiment posed by Andy Herman on Twitter the other day. 

The question he posed: 

Which decade would you rather have as a fan?

Tampa Bay: 2/10 winning seasons, 1 trip to the playoffs, 7 seasons finishing last in the division, 1 Super Bowl win

Green Bay: 8/10 winning seasons, 8 trips to the playoffs, 4 trips to NFCCG, 0 Super Bowl wins

Now, before I clicked “submit” on my response, i thought this was going to be a landslide victory for Green Bay. And it’s true that the Packers do lead this poll, taking about two thirds of the votes. But I had expected a good 80 percent or more would select the Packers.

Instead, the voting sites 65.4 percent Green Bay, 34.6 percent Tampa, meaning while the Tampa voters are in the minority, there is a significant percentage of voters who would take the one Super Bowl and most other years being among the worst teams in football over consistent winning and meaningful football over no championships.

Very interesting.

Before I go further, I should note that neither answer here is wrong. We all get our enjoyment out of sports in different ways, and that’s okay.

But for me, watching my team being completely hopeless year in, year out for a decade just seems like torture. Yes, the losses in the playoffs are heartbreaking, and I am certainly sick of it. But from a fan standpoint, isn’t it better to know every game your team plays is meaningful, and that there’s always hope of a championship?

I went into the thread to investigate the perspective of those voting for Tampa. For the most part, the response was “championships are the only thing that matters.”

Here’s one example of a conversation I had. 

Now, having watched my team win a Super Bowl a couple times in my life, I know just how satisfying it is, and the joy that comes from watching your team lift that Lombardi Trophy at the end of the season. So I totally get prioritizing that as a fan.

But ultimately, that’s all we are--fans. Right? As I say in the final tweet in that screenshot, I can’t really set a “goal” at the start of the year of winning the Super Bowl, because it’s not something I have any influence over. It’s one thing for a player to take a “Super Bowl or else it’s meaningless” mentality, but I, personally, don’t see how I’d find any joy in watching the game at all if the only thing that mattered to me was winning the Super Bowl at the end of the season.

I think back on the last decade of Packers football and see a whole lot of missed opportunities, yes. The debacle in 2014. The Tampa game. The collapses in San Francisco. The heartbreaker in Arizona. 

But there’s also a lot that this last decade of Packers football has provided that wouldn’t have been possible if they were a horrible team. The “Run the Table” stretch. The complete dominance of the NFC North. Watching one of the greatest in the game’s history slinging the ball around the field.

For me, as a fan, the journey is at least as satisfying as the destination.

Of course, I’ve also seen my team win multiple championships. The conversation might be different for other fan bases.

The Eagles had never won a Super Bowl until 2017. After a couple seasons of faltering in the playoffs, the team unraveled this year.

Now, I can see why Eagles fans would, in the moment, take the Super Bowl over anything. It’s something they’ve never experienced before. 

But if the team ends up being bad (like, horrifically bad, last-place-seven-times-like-the-Bucs bad) for a decade, does it still end up being worth it? I just can’t imagine any Super Bowl victory for me, as a fan, would be worth that hefty price.

I also wonder if my philosophy here would have been different at a different stage of my life.

When the Packers won their last Super Bowl, I was 22 years old. Had they lost the game it probably would have wrecked me. 

I’m still young, but a decade of living gives a lot more perspective. I’m a completely different person in a completely different stage of life than I was at that point, and I think the way I approach the game as a fan has changed in that time as well. I have more responsibilities, and thus fewer opportunities to enjoy escapism. While I’m still very much a diehard, I think I have a greater appreciation for being able to enjoy Packer football at all (especially this past season in a pandemic). 

I still get upset over the losses. I still can see the missed opportunities and the shrinking championship window. I’m just not sure it affects me to the same extent it once did. A single loss during the regular season would put me in a spin for an entire week. These days, I’ll avoid sports media for a day or so, but quickly move on with my life.

The time from 2011 through 2020 will definitely go down as a 10-year period in Packer history with a lot of “what ifs,” and yes, it genuinely sucks that the team was never able to seal that deal. 

But I also don’t feel cheated as a fan, because from a pure entertainment perspective, there’s been a lot of incredible, meaningful football played in that timespan. I can’t imagine being in Bucs fans’ situations, where you’re spending most of the last two decades watching awful football without any end to it in sight before one magical season arises. Does that single Super Bowl season really erase all the pain that led up to it?

Or, perhaps more telling, would a Bucs fan a year ago have said that their 2002 season Super Bowl victory made the following 17 years worth it?

What is the price you’re willing to pay for a single Super Bowl?

I guess for me, it’s lower than for some people.

Anyway, I wanted to ruminate on that a bit today, because I found it to be a really interesting question posed by Andy with a lot more variance in the answers than I was expecting. 

Like I said at the top of this column, there’s not really a “wrong” response here. I’m interested in hearing what others would choose and their reasons behind it.

 

__________________________

Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.

5 points

Comments (84)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:40 am

As AWESOME as the 60's were (of what I can remember watching with my Dad), the 1996, and 1997 seasons, and the 2010 seasons were, it SUCKED 10 times more in the 70's, 80's, 2005, and 2017, and 2018. I HATE losing. I HATE watching the Packers in December, or even November when the games DON'T MATTER anymore. As heartbreaking losing to Elway in a game he literally SUCKED except for one scramble for a 1st down, the season and ride there is a blast ALL YEAR LONG!!!

Just this past decade, the Packers have played in some games that stick out just as much as the SB...Well close anyways.

The 2010 week 16 game against the Giants. The 2010 week 17 game at Lambeau against the Bears to clinch the Wildcard were unbelievable.
The 2013 week 17 game IN Chicago where Rodgers hit Cobb for a 48 yard TD on 4th and 8. THAT play STILL gives me chills every time I watch it, and 2013 was a year the Packers didn't win it, but dam it was fun once MM starting playing Flynn and Rodgers came back. There's a million examples and everybody has their own.

Sorry, losing sucks! Give me ALL the success ALL day every day!!

EDIT...I Know the question was about the last decade and I know I went a bit overboard. I'm a older man who REMEMBERS the 70's and 80's AND growing up in Minnesota while the Queens we're going (and losing) SB's. As sweet as the Ron Wolf / Mike Holmgren era was, the Phil Benston, Dan Devine, Forrest Gregg, Bart Starr, and Lindy Infante eras SUCKED. The SB is the ultimate, what the game is played for. BUT I still love the ride no matter the heartbreak. We'll get #5 / 14 in the next 2 years gauranteed!!

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murf7777's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:56 am

I agree, I'll take continuous winning every day. One comment, you're right, it wasn't Elway who beat us, it was a RB named Davis that did us in. As hard as watching a big game (NFC Championship) loss, I still love watching them try year in and year out to get to the SB. Sure beats not having a team in the playoffs most years.

TT RIP, you were a great steward in helping us have continuous winning seasons.

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 01:38 pm

Nick, I agree with you 1000%. Maybe it’s because the Packers have won 7 NFL titles including 4 SBs in my lifetime.
Maybe it’s because I realize that the Lombardi era is a once in a lifetime period of excellence. Maybe it’s because my expectations of what can be accomplished in an era of free agency and salary caps have been altered. Maybe all of the above and more.
What I do know is that ‘92 to 2020 has been more more enjoyable and preferable to me than the period between 1968 - 1992. As a long distance fan it’s difficult to keep the faith when nearly everyone else you know is either a fan of one of our 3 local teams or on the bandwagon of the current front runners like the Steelers, Cowboys, and 49ers, during the 70sand 80s. I’m confident that Jersey Al can relate.
The Packers were just irrelevant until Harlan, Wolf, Holmgren, Favre and Reggie White put the Packers back on the NFL map.

I know we should have at least 3-4 more SBs since ‘92. But at least we have a chance nearly every season. Ask Lions fans or Cleveland Browns fans, would they rather be us or them since 1964. The last season either of those teams win an NFL title. I think we know how they would answer. Stay well.
Thanks, Since ‘61

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NickPerry's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:17 pm

I actually thought of you when I was typing my post Since '61 because I knew you'd relate. We've had some wonderful back and forth over the years starting at All Green Bay Packers.com and here since Jersey Al merged with CHTV.

THANK GOD were not Detroit or the Browns. I know there's a lot of younger folks posting here, ones who have no idea about what it was like in the 70's or 80's. The Green Bay Packers have had 4 seasons under 500 since 1992. I'd have to do some checking but I'm 99% certain no other team can claim that. Considering the Packers are in the smallest market in the NFL and they've done it during Free Agency makes it more impressive.

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:39 pm

Totally agree again Nick. Good post. Thanks, Since ‘61

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PF4L's picture

February 19, 2021 at 03:40 pm

To me.....
Choosing between teams is a foolish and silly question, a true fan of a team doesn't think in those terms.
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Some here have expressed they'd choose GB because of a better playoff history.
Personally....when i think back to all those playoffs, all those NFCCG, if i was a fan of another team, it would have saved me a lot of heartache, pain and embarrassment.

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egbertsouse's picture

February 18, 2021 at 06:59 am

Tampa or Green Bay’s last decade, hmmmmmmm. I’ll take New England’s.

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x24's picture

February 18, 2021 at 08:38 am

That's cheating

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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:24 am

Super secret response #3!!!

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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 01:43 pm

Because you don’t care if you get caught cheating.....repeatedly....as long as you win?

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 04:04 pm

It no longer matters if something is right or wrong.
What matters is if you can get away with it.
That’s where we’re at. Thanks, Since ‘61

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splitpea1's picture

February 18, 2021 at 04:17 pm

I'm sorry about last time. That was poor behavior on my part.

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:44 pm

You made a fair point. I do rant from time to time.
I hold no grudges. We’re good, no worries.
Thanks, Since ‘61

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PF4L's picture

February 19, 2021 at 04:43 pm

Cheating?
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You boys still banging that drum?
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Funny...i remember at the time Rodgers saying he likes the ball over inflated.

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PF4L's picture

February 20, 2021 at 09:18 am

They cheated!!...waaaa...MOM!!!

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PF4L's picture

February 19, 2021 at 04:40 pm

Egbertsouse had the most intelligent reply to a silly question.

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PF4L's picture

February 20, 2021 at 09:20 am

A thumbs down doesn't make a counterpoint i'm wrong....but maybe it does in your world.
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Good luck with your GED exams.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:02 am

You pretty much have said exactly how I feel, Tim. The results of the survey aren't a surprise to me; I've known many people who don't want to play any game unless "there is a winner." We used to play Trivial Pursuit without the board, just answering the questions, and there was always someone or two who "didn't see the point" in playing without keeping score. Same thing with morning pick-up games of basketball at the gym in college, most guys just wanted to play, but there were always a couple who "had to keep score, otherwise it's no fun."
There is a personality quality that turns everything into a competition, a sort of NEED to create a hierarchy of individuals, The concept of win-win often seems ridiculous to these people, they walk away thinking (okay, but I won MORE/LESS than you). Unfortunately, these people often spend a lot of time being angry, and are forced to assign blame to either themselves or someone or something else.
I don't "blame" them. Whether it was nature or nurture, it's where they are, but I always wish they would enjoy every moment for what it is, instead of limiting their happiness to moments of "winning." I feel sad for them, but I know that they think someone like me is "sad" because I "don't care enough about winning."

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murf7777's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:03 am

"Unfortunately, these people often spend a lot of time being angry, and are forced to assign blame to either themselves or someone or something else."

There is the other side also: many people are very competitive, myself included, but also don't get angry when losing. I like to play a game to win, but that doesn't mean if I lose I didn't enjoy the game. I enjoy trying to win and being competitive. On the flip-side, I don't like playing the game with sore losers who look at others to blame and yes there are those peeps as well.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:15 am

I have always competed hard and worked hard as well Murf. But it doesn't matter if we're keeping score or not, I revel in the moment of the competition. Afterwards, I'm happy to laugh and shake hands with the winners. Yet there are always those who get angry when they see Aaron Rodgers or any other player smiling and interacting with members of the team that beat them.

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Dragon5's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:03 am

Interesting take Tim. I weigh your perspective vs mgmt's--a conservative approach to provide a stable product that drives growth to reduce the risk of financial hardship for a small market team in meaningless years. In essence, the business is managed so as not to provide a cure for our ailment (by going all in). Healthcare, having been re-engineered by Rockefeller from naturopathic/homeopathic to allopathic is no different...manage the disease via high-margin pharmaceuticals (profitable), avoid promoting nutrition and cures (unprofitable).

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stockholder's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:23 am

Nothing changes in our division. I call it winning by default. I guess you have to take it for what it is. The grass is always greener on the other side.

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PF4L's picture

February 18, 2021 at 08:16 am

"Would You Rather Have Tampa’s or Green Bay’s Last Decade?"
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I'd rather have a GM that knows he has a 3 year window to get to a SB with a HOF QB, and drafts accordingly in a "win now" mode.
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Drafting, and trading up for 1st round bench players isn't my idea of a "win now" mode.
There isn't enough green and gold kool-aid to drink for anyone to believe he drafted to win now.
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I'll repeat what i said after the Love pick..." Gute gave up, he gave up on Rodgers, he gave up on the Packers, and he gave up on Packer Nation.
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Gute did not draft to win now, anyone who thinks he did is a damn fool.

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PF4L's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:02 am

I don't expect the "thumbs down" crowd to offer a different opinion, or actually have an opinion.
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But at least this way, the thumbs down shows the "damn fools" are speaking....the best they can, i guess
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I don't know why these people can't speak their own thoughts. I mean...Don't let your G.E.D. go to waste.

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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:26 am

Maybe the thumbs down crowd has already stated their opinion in the thread, they just don't want to beat a dead horse.

People who want to engage you directly will do so. Get over the thumbs...they aren't a measure of your personal worth.

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LeotisHarris's picture

February 18, 2021 at 06:39 pm

Could be folks don't appreciate you attempting to hijack the thread with your own rant. The insults right out of the gate didn't help much either if your intent was to exchange ideas with fellow fans. You chose to follow-up your initial post with cheap, poorly-worded shots at the intelligence of those who decided not to engage with you.

If someone expressed themselves to you in real life (let's say it's someone with a college degree, maybe even a Ph.D.!) like you've done here, would you give them 30 seconds of your time?

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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 01:54 pm

The GMs responsibility is as much to the future as the present. This “all in” stuff.......would adding Jim Brown guarantee us Super Bowl? Jerry Rice? Ray Lewis? Charles Woodson?

No, because injuries will still happen. The ball will still bounce funny, referees will still screw you, and miracles will still happen. So you try to put a good, solid team with some depth on the field under the constraints of the cap and hope that next year it’s your opponent that’s playing with backups on the line.

We’re going to be good, again, next year. We’ll be able to put a good team on the field for the rest of the Rodgers era and beyond as long as we don’t get stupid and start mortgaging our future.

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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 02:44 pm

"would adding Jim Brown guarantee us Super Bowl? Jerry Rice? Ray Lewis? Charles Woodson?"

Geez, no. Most of those guys are 50+!

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PF4L's picture

February 18, 2021 at 03:56 pm

@leatherhead...lol
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Yes, the Packers will still be good, we still have Aaron Rodgers.
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You are correct...injuries happen. So lets draft players who don't play right?
We don't need talent on the field....right?
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Hell....why waste a 2nd round pick on a corner when we can draft a rb we don't need.
We have Kevin King, what could go wrong?
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Hell, why waste a #1 pick and a #4 pick on a receiver, corner, O or D-lineman when we can draft a QB to sit on the bench for 3 or 4 years.
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Hell, why waste a 3rd round pick on a receiver, corner, O or D-lineman when we can draft another tight end tweaner to throw on our current pile of tight ends.
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While were at it....why don't we sign too hugely expensive edge rushers to big money, then draft an edge rushing project with the 12th overall pick to ride the bench for at least 2 seasons.
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All that sounds like a winning game plan Leatherhead. Thanks for having me .....see the light.
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I'm just hear to learn from you all....THANK YOU

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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 06:31 pm

Answers.

1). What CB could we have drafted at the end of the second round who would have started ahead of King? Answer = none.

2. What 3rd round receiver, corner, or lineman would you have chosen?

3. The Packer brass believes edge pressure is necessary to stopping the run.

Now let me ask you a few questions

How many football coaching victories , at any level, do you have?
Have you ever managed a $500,000,000/ year business?
Has anybody ever paid you money to teach football?

Why do you think you know more than the professionals who run this organization?

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PF4L's picture

February 19, 2021 at 12:38 am

Let me give you a clue on what my (opinion) message was about, although i thought it was evident and didn't need explanation.
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You might want to sit down for this, i'll try to simple it up for you.
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Gute...didn't draft to win now, he drafted for the future.
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When i say win now.....that means putting players on the field, players who can actually contribute.
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When i say contribute....it means trying to help the team win a NFCCG to get to a SB while you still have a HOF QB.
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When i say HOF QB....it's important because they don't come around often, so when you have one, put the best team you can on the field (not on the bench) when you are so close to getting to a SB.
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I offer my opinion, i don't answer silly questions.
You want an opinion from somebody with a football background? Look up Brett Favre on First Take.
You want some opinions on the Packer draft strategy from people who make a living discussing football?
Read up on the Packers draft reviews, and what football people have said about the Packers draft, and what they graded the Packers draft.
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If you want to think that drafting and trading up for Jordan Love, drafting Dequara, Dillon, Gary was any help to the Packers getting to a SB, then more power to you.
Keep chugging that green and gold kool-aid.
Ignorance is bliss.
.
Thanks for participating.

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Leatherhead's picture

February 19, 2021 at 04:25 pm

So in other words, you agree with me that Gutekunst did his job as GM by building the roster for the future.

And if we make it to the Super Bowl this year, it'll be guys like Dillon and Dequara and Gary who help us get there.

You are like the young bull who said "Look at those cows. I'm going to run over there and breed with one right now".

I'm more like the old bull, who said "I'm going to walk over there and breed with them all and I'll take my time doing it.."

It's not all about the next five minutes. Really, it's not.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I think you should reexamine your assumption about the scarcity of HOF QBs. How many teams had a future HOF QB this year?

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger.......Mahomes? Russell Wilson?

Maybe Lamar Jackson winds up in the HOF, or some other young gun at the beginning of his career.

That's about 8 out of 32 or so. Not as scarce as you'd think, perhaps.

Here's a question you might want to ask yourself: How many QBs not named Brady have won a Super Bowl after age 37? It's a short list. If I was a betting man, I'd bet we won't win a Super Bowl with Rodgers. Not as a commentary on his skills, which are amazing, but simply an acknowledgement that most Super Bowls are won by guys a lot younger than him. Unless their name is Brady.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx As an aside, if you really wanted to give me a clue, you could have answered the questions I asked.

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PF4L's picture

February 21, 2021 at 04:23 pm

Let me give you a clue on what my (opinion) message was about, although i thought it was evident and didn't need explanation.
.
You might want to sit down for this, i'll try to simple it up for you.
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Gute...didn't draft to win now, he drafted for the future.
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When i say win now.....that means putting players on the field, players who can actually contribute.
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When i say contribute....it means trying to help the team win a NFCCG to get to a SB while you still have a HOF QB.
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When i say HOF QB....it's important because they don't come around often, so when you have one, put the best team you can on the field (not on the bench) when you are so close to getting to a SB.
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I offer my opinion, i don't answer silly questions.
You want an opinion from somebody with a football background? Look up Brett Favre on First Take.
You want some opinions on the Packer draft strategy from people who make a living discussing football?
Read up on the Packers draft reviews, and what football people have said about the Packers draft, and what they graded the Packers draft.
.
If you want to think that drafting and trading up for Jordan Love, drafting Dequara, Dillon, Gary was any help to the Packers getting to a SB, then more power to you.
Keep chugging that green and gold kool-aid.
Ignorance is bliss.
.
Thanks for participating.

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PF4L's picture

February 22, 2021 at 10:17 am

Pure Genius Letterhead. (Cue applause!)
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"How many QBs not named Brady have won a Super Bowl after age 37? It's a short list. If I was a betting man, I'd bet we won't win a Super Bowl with Rodgers. Not as a commentary on his skills, which are amazing, but simply an acknowledgement that most Super Bowls are won by guys a lot younger than him." - LH
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So what your saying is if we had a QB not as good as Rodgers, we could win a SB if he was younger?
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I'm speechless, i don't know how to respond. You really must have taken your time and thought that out Letterhead. I'm clearly impressed.
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STAY THIRSTY

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PF4L's picture

February 22, 2021 at 10:48 am

I'll (attempt) to help you out further Letterhead...
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"That's about 8 out of 32 or so. Not as scarce as you'd think, perhaps." - Letterhead
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You claim about 8 HOF QB's in the last 20 years . it might even be 10 or so.
But....the success rate ratio of finding a HOF QB is not 32:8 or 4:1.
That's 4th grade mentality.
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I'll contend the success rate of finding a HOF QB is woefully scarce. It is not 32:8. or 4:1. Are you kidding me?
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Ask yourself...How many QB's have been signed by NFL teams since 1945?
THAT.... is how you figure out the true success rate of finding a HOF QB.
From 1945 - 2017 there have been 26 QB's inducted into the HOF. How many QB's were signed in those 72 years.
Common sense and google, are your friend Letterhead.
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You're welcome.
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There is a old saying Letterhead....
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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.
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STAY THIRSTY

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PF4L's picture

February 23, 2021 at 01:58 am

Brutal...amirite?

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 04:38 pm

LH - I think that you make a solid point. But another way to look at the situation is; we were literally one play away from reaching the SB. Not a player or 2 or 3 but one play.

So to me the question is, could we have drafted a player who would have delivered that play with our #1 pick? There is no way to know. However we do know that the player we did draft wasn’t even dressed to make any plays during the playoffs.

The same may be true for 2021 depending on who we lose during the upcoming FA period. But if our roster remains relatively intact, based on the way Jersey Al addressed the cap in his article yesterday, we are one play away going into the draft, barring major injuries. Should we not at least try to draft an offensive and a defensive player who might deliver that play with our first and second picks. Or should we draft for the future yet again?

I believe we draft to make that play. Whether it’s a WR and a CB or a RB and ILB. We can’t possibly know who that player is but we can focus on players who are most likely to contribute in their rookie season rather than watching the games from the sidelines like a glorified fan.

The point is we have a chance, now, what are we waiting for??? Nothing is guaranteed. Who knows if there will even be a league 2-3 years from now.

Aaron Rodgers equals opportunity. Let’s get it done.
“ I would rather fail while daring greatly than have a place among those timid souls who never knows either victory or defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt

Thanks, Since ‘61

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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 06:42 pm

We were one play away. Not one player.

Their seems to be a belief that we could have drafted a player who would have stayed healthy all season and made those plays. Like maybe a RB who wouldn’t fumble twice. Or some corner who would have started ahead of King, or some lineman who could have magically filled in for Bakhtiari.

How about a QB who would have seen Lazard instead of forcing it to Adams. Or a receiver who would have caught the ball that Adams didn’t?

Do you see the slippery slope? We had plenty enough talent to win that game. Some of ur best players didn’t get it done in the clutch, and that’s not a draft thing.

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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:03 pm

A legit #2 receiver may have made the play or 2 we needed without replacing Adams or Jones or King. Or a CB may have caught the pick that Redmond dropped before the half ended.

My point is that we can’t fix our 2020 draft, but we can get it right for 2021 or at least try to. As I’ve posted on other threads if we keep drafting for the future we’ll still be building for the future after another 10 years. Thanks, Since ‘61

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PF4L's picture

February 19, 2021 at 03:33 pm

"There is no way to know. However we do know that the player we did draft wasn’t even dressed to make any plays during the playoffs." - Since 61
*****************************
Not only that, but that pick cost us another player to trade up, who will never be dressed.
So it cost the Packers two players who won't get on the field, EACH year that Love doesn't play.
**************************************
Why some people can't comprehend this is not only shocking, but it's highly disappointing as a Packer fan.
*************************************************
"It's not a sin to lose, the sin is not trying to win" - PF4L

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PF4L's picture

February 20, 2021 at 09:30 am

Great thumbs down!!
That's telling me!!
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lol....anything else? Did you stick your tongue out at my comment also? That would teach me huh?
...........
The Anonymous Brain Dead Thumbs Down Dullards Club......we love you!!

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:51 pm

I completely agree.

1 points
1
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fastmoving's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:07 am

You and the couple of crybabies are not Packers Nation, you are the opposite of it. Dont know I you can think you speak with your BS for someone else than yourself.
You may be the thumb down crowd for every real Packer fan.
This weak lame dramaqueenstuff sound a lot like real loser talk.

Nobody sane would trade the Packers last 3 decades to anyone...maybe besides NE.....

0 points
2
2
Lphill's picture

February 18, 2021 at 08:42 am

Tampa, its amazing how many people here get all giddy over being over 500, call me crazy but I rather have 1 Lombardi rather than 10 above 500 seasons.

0 points
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marpag1's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:05 am

It's also amazing how many people get all pissed off and angry over going 13-3 and making the conference championship game. Call me crazy, but those guys seem just as dumb as the other ones.

2 points
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:21 am

We wouldn't be hearing from most of them very much if this was a team that went 4-12 or 6-10 the majority of the last 10 years.

2 points
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marpag1's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:25 am

Oh, I think we would be hearing plenty from them. Some people aren't happy unless they are complaining. And if they get their undies bunched about being 13 and 3, what happens at 4 and 12?

5 points
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:36 am

They go watch the Bucks.

2 points
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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 04:41 pm

I take your point LP, but I can only assure you that the 70s & 80s sucked as a Packer fan. Thanks, Since ‘61

0 points
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Stroh's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:06 pm

The problem is 90% of the alleged Bucs fans, didn't give a rats ass about the Bucs for the past decade! They have no history, no tradition or pride in their team,and probably didn't even care if TB had a football franchise. Your looking at it with Packer fans eyes, not exactly
the right perspective!

All those bandwagon fans won't continue to support the Bucs in 2 or 3 yrs from now! They'll fade into oblivion until maybe 20 or 30 yrs from now when they might trip into having a good enough team again!

That's not a fan!

2 points
2
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fastmoving's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:18 am

I would be afraid if this syphitroll would post something what makes sense. So this weak "Strongman" must be pleased with the last decade. We got one Lombardi and 8 play offs on top of it. The Packers Outperformed!!!
And by the way, Tampa has not more Lomardis over the last decade minus being a contender every year plus having the season over by November most of the time. But hey, the smarties know always better how to run something into the ground.

But there is, thank god, no Rush anymore to read this BS. God is good

0 points
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Turophile's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:02 am

If you'd rather have Tampa's last decade and go with "It's all about winning Superbowls", then you are looking at a single point in time, the time when your team lofts the Lombardi trophy. What this misses is the JOURNEY all through the preseason, regular season and postseason.

If all you really care about is winning the Superbowl, why not just ignore the season entirely, don't even bother with your team then............. and just check in after the season to see if you won it all. That holds absolutely no attraction for me at all. All other things being equal, you should feel good once every 32 years.

You can get plenty of joy and satisfaction watching a team that didn't win it all, just as I've enjoyed Green Bay managing two 13-3 regular seasons with a new head coach and new(ish) GM.

7 points
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:23 am

Part of the point you get at is that this is a nice retrospective thought experiment. If you're looking back and saying that the crappy ball will ultimately result in an SB, that's great. But if you're looking ahead with a crappy team and saying: you could be the Detroit Lions...and you just don't know? It's a very different argument.

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:27 am

It’s about the journey, not the destination. Stop and smell the roses. Think about some of the great wins we had over the Bears, the Hail Marys, etc. it’s a lot more fun watching a good team win than cheering for a team that loses a lot.

2 points
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TXCHEESE's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:49 am

Definitely would take the Pack's last decade. Playing meaningful games in December and January are what it's all about for me. Only ONE team can win it all in a given season. A couple of days after a playoff loss, you still remember the great moments in the season and appreciate those thrills. Living in the middle of Cowboy's country, I am uniquely qualified to sense what it's like to be starved for December/January football that matters. I stayed true to the Pack through the 70's and 80's, and those were almost demoralizing.

To put it another way, would you rather bowl a 299, or a 115?

3 points
4
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:02 am

I think for people who get used to bowling in the 250s, that 150 game is more crushing than the high for the person who rolls 120s and happens to throw a 250...especially if all their friends are watching!

2 points
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Bearmeat's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:49 am

This is exactly it. We've been rolling 250s for almost 3 decades. But we've only twice won the bowling tournament. Always in it, never win it.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:12 pm

Always in it, sometimes win it.

Statistically, each team should win a Super Bowl once every 32 years. We’ve won it twice in 25 years. Even if we don’t win again for another seven years, we’re still way ahead of the curve.

-1 points
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NitschkeFan's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:59 am

Everyone is entitled to enjoy sports the way they see fit. But for me it is no comparison. A Buc's fan would have to endure hundred's of weekends of crap just to get to one fun season. Packer's fans have had hundreds of fun weekends to get to the few crap weekends of NFCG losses.

People should really look at the Bucs record and try to imagine following your team week after week and season after season.

2011 4-12
2012 7-9
2013 4-12
2014 2-14
2015 6-10
2016 9-7
2017 5-11
2018 5-11
2019 7-9
2020 11-5

That is a lot of depressing weekends/months/seasons to endure. Reminds much of the Packers 1970's and 1980's. It was not fun. I remember in the 1970's getting my football pleasure from watching great rivalries like the Raiders vs Steelers since there was no hope that my chosen team (Packers) were going to be relevant.

6 points
8
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TarynsEyes's picture

February 18, 2021 at 11:39 am

In 2019, the Packers total attendance home/away is about 200,000 more than Tampa Bay, That's not a huge deficit considering one has an icon QB and the other had a bag of shit, until this season.

2 points
4
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NitschkeFan's picture

February 18, 2021 at 12:31 pm

What would the TV ratings say? My guess is that Packers games vs bucs games in the past decade would show millions more viewers for Packers games. The networks probably agree with me as you can look through the "prime time" games and compare which team gets scheduled those slots.

-2 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

February 18, 2021 at 12:41 pm

Tampa Bay gets an equal share of the TV money regardless if they have an icon or bag of shit at QB. It's a league revenue not a team revenue.

1 points
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 02:47 pm

I wonder how many ARod jerseys and guided tours through Lambeau were purchased over that time period as opposed to total Bucs jerseys and walks around Raymond James Stadium...

0 points
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Stroh's picture

February 18, 2021 at 09:18 pm

But youf not including fans who support the Packers with hard earned money and emotions. Just cuz an NFL team almost sells out doesn't mean they've ever been invested to any degree. Sure they come out of the woodwork when the Bucs happen to win, but the other 90+% of the time they don't give a crap about the Bucs.

In short they aren't fans! They have nothing fanatic or invested in the team.

0 points
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PF4L's picture

February 22, 2021 at 06:56 pm

Tampa Bay has won 2 SB's in the last 19 seasons with Trent Dilfer and 43 y/o Tom Brady.
.
The Packers have won 2 SB's in the last 29 years with two HOF QB's.
.
I'll trust (hoping) my point is clear enough that i don't have to explain this.

-2 points
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PF4L's picture

February 23, 2021 at 05:47 am

Did i state something that wasn't true, or did i just.....hurt your feelings?
.
I'm sorry...How about i take you out for an ice cream cone, would you like that?

0 points
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PF4L's picture

February 22, 2021 at 07:05 pm

I'll contend it's been far more painful and depressing for Packer fans the last 10 seasons.
.
With the Packers you had hopes and dreams of getting to the Super Bowl.
The Packers went to 4 NFCCG in the last 7 seasons and lost them all. Some of them in very embarrassing fashion.
.
With the Bucs, their fans knew what they had and what not to expect. There was no heartache

-1 points
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1
andrewstevenson's picture

February 18, 2021 at 10:58 am

Haha, I love it

0 points
1
1
TarynsEyes's picture

February 18, 2021 at 11:42 am

To many fans use the past to defend the failures of the present and coming tomorrows.

The only relevance I place on that 2010-11 SB win is that of a documentary piece that offers solace to what hasn't happened again, but in no manner does it make me believe that the failures since still make the Packers successful, winners of many games, sure, but many win many games.

Yes, they have performed well enough to win the water-cooler fan fight, but not what matters most, and that has them drinking from the same water-cooler because the top rung of the ladder has been unreachable, by all around that water-cooler of non-champions, whether one year ago or 20.

Again, all the talk about how we could have, would have, should have is moot, because at the end not one of those three happened because they didn't make it happen, and that makes the season not a losing one, but a failure, period.

Go cry in the corner, stump your feet, and swear you won't watch the SB because your team isn't playing in it. That not only makes you a sore-loser and cry-baby, but shows you care not about the sport, but a team and more likely one player and his accolades, and that makes for losing on every level.

I can respect any team that wins the SB regardless of the time it took to do so, because it is a special victory, and to dismiss such by any means makes one a pitiful spoiled sport.

-1 points
3
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fastmoving's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:20 am

So it doest matter if the Packers win the SB in 35 years?? And all will be good? So why complaining all the time? Yeah, logic is a hell of a drug.....

-3 points
0
3
splitpea1's picture

February 18, 2021 at 12:20 pm

If the new DC and ST coordinator can work some magic, MLF continues to grow, and add a couple of solid defenders, maybe we can put this question to rest once and for all.

1 points
1
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pacman's picture

February 18, 2021 at 01:25 pm

It is the nature of game to compete to win the SB.
If your team doesn't really have a chance to get there, then you're satisfied with some wins to pass the year and that possibility of a crazy lucky run. But if your team is one of the teams that could reasonably get there, then the season is just prep for the playoffs.
So it really isn't a question of looking back and wanting to be the Packers or TB this last decade, it's a question of expectation every year and whether your team played to its potential or not.

Overall, the Packers having not reached the SB in the last decade, is a big disappointment. If the team was a mediocre team that didn't have a chance, then it would not be disappointing - just sad.

If you or the players or management is satisfied with playing good ball every year, then you are not a true competitor. That's fine for fans. But if players or coaches have this attitude, they should find something else to do.

1 points
2
1
JohnnyLogan's picture

February 18, 2021 at 02:16 pm

I can't throw a football 70 yards to an intended target. Thirty maybe, then alternate ice and heat after one throw. Aaron Rodgers can throw 70 yards to within a foot of a streaking MVS, or to Lazard, who runs like a camel in the Sahara, but Rodgers has just the right touch for either. I like that.

I liked seeing Braun hit, I like seeing Giannis fly through the lane. Honest, I can't do those things. But Rodgers, Braun, and Giannis can, and they're my guys, my surrogates, they're playing for me and my son. My other son loves soccer but he was always a whiner and a flopper.

All three of the teams that my guys play for have made me suffer over the last decade or more, but so have my wife and my barber. But boy, my wife can look like the most beautiful woman on the planet at times. As for my barber, I might as well put a bowl over my head and do it myself. My wife wants me to go to a "salon." Maybe I will. Probably won't. My barber's a good guy.

So what's the point?... I watch the Packers because they're my team, always have been. The good guys. I'm not changing. Watched them through the Lombardi years when it felt like we couldn't lose and through the blue period that followed. Even Picasso had a blue period. During these blue periods, Picasso was monochromatic, and the Packers were monotonous. Wasn't as much fun.

Then came Favre and Rodgers to ply their magic. There almost hasn't been a single game during the Favre/Rodgers years that hasn't had meaning. Not once did I wake up on a Sunday and acquiesce to my bony kneed son when he asked me to take him to the park and stand in front of a net while he tried to kick a round ball past me.

No. For most of those years, we've been better than Brando. He famously moaned "I could've been a contend'ah." Brando didn't say "I could'a been a champ!" He said "contend'ah." Well, we have been contenders. And a couple o' times even champs.

What we haven't been are 'bums,' not for 25 years. Tampa was a sparring partner while we were punching our way to title fights. Then they landed a lucky punch and won an improbable championship.

Brady is going to wake up one morning and decide what he most wants to do next is take a nap. Tampa will go the way of Buster Douglas.

We'll still be fighting to get to a title fight. I'll take that any day.

6 points
6
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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 05:01 pm

I’m with you Johnny Logan. As long as we have a chance we have hope. When we have no chance what hope do we have?

Besides that the Packers probably would not survive another 20+ year period like the 70s and 80s again. The league is only about $$$$ now, huge $$$$. A commissioner like Goodell and the current owners would love to have an excuse to revoke the Packers non-profit charter and have the team purchased by a consortium that would pay billions to own a tradition rich franchise like the Packers. The sale would put millions into each owners pocket and into the league coffers
Then sell the naming rights to the stadium and after they made all the millions they from Green Bay, pick up and move the team to a larger market city. Don’t think it could ever happen??? All it takes is a losing decade or so, FAs not wanting to play in GB and some management mistakes and greedy people with money. The day should never come but there have many, many things that should never have happened. Thanks, Since ‘61

2 points
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56Packfan's picture

February 18, 2021 at 05:37 pm

I became a Packers fan in 1956. The Lions won the NFL Championship in '57. Since then, they've had Mel Farr, Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Calvin Johnson, all to no avail. Many a Lions fan have been born and died without ever seeing a Championship. And what about the Cardinals? They last won before I was alive. And they may not win before I leave for greener pastures. How would you like to be their fan? Being in the hunt year after year at least bring some joy and excitement even if the ultimate goal is not achieved. Tampa got a break this year because Bakhtiari got hurt. It takes some luck to win it all. Just ask either of those perpetual non-winners.

2 points
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dobber's picture

February 18, 2021 at 07:28 pm

You hit it on the head: it's all about who you play and what kind of shape they're in when you butt heads. During the regular season, you get 16 (soon to be 17) shots. In the postseason, you get one chance to earn the next chance...bad injury luck or a bad matchup can mean the end.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2021 at 08:07 pm

Or in the case of 2020 poor coaching decisions combined with poor execution at critical points in the game by some of our best players. Thanks, Since ‘61

1 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 18, 2021 at 11:40 pm

I thought I knew my answer until I read the comments. Very persuasive on both sides. I do suspect that the consistent win group is not able to just look at the last 10 seasons but also includes the Super Bowl-winning year of 2010. If GB's last SB win had been in 1996, would the percentages change? TB won the SB in 2002 and 2020.

TB had some meh years but also some godawful years like a 2-14 and several 4-12 years. Yikes! TBH, I don't think that would happen again in GB. Revenue sharing and the cap means that no team should be awful forever. Even a mediocre GM and coaching should produce watchable football.

The age argument struck me as well. As one gets older, one gets more perspective. I suspect some who earn their living in the media covering the Packers prefer consistent winning as well. That might be wrong: one would think they just like football, but even then they probably like and recognize good football. I myself can't watch semi-pro or college sports - I watch only the highest level of competition.

In the 70s and 80s, there was little to do other than watch the games and look to see who the Packers drafted. I currently am much more into the team-building aspects. Yes, the draft, but also the cap and contracts. There is so much more information out there that I think I will be able to be interested even in bad GB teams.

I vote for GB's last 10 years, I think. I still think winning GB should be all-in for winning another super bowl while AR is still upright. I am dead set against playing it safe: when the time is right, go for it! But that's not the question that was asked.

1 points
1
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Since'61's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:39 am

TGR, I agree that we should go all in while we still have AR.
Green Bay is in a unique situation in that if they go through an extended period of losing even with revenue sharing they will probably have a difficult time attracting top tier FAs to play in Green Bay.

Since ‘93 we’ve had a team with a QB and a legit chance to win an SB. Reggie White specifically came to GB because after playing against Favre during the ‘92 season he said that there is a QB who will the SB someday. The rest is history and remains true while we have Rodgers.
We have also been lucky with GMs and HCs as well. Miss on those roles 2-3 times in a row as we did in the 70s/80s and whole organization goes down the tubes as well.
Enjoy the journey, it goes faster and faster every season.
Thanks, Since ‘61

0 points
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Big_Mel_75's picture

February 19, 2021 at 08:51 am

I would much rather having a winning team with a yearly chance at the Superbowl then sucking for a decade to maybe win a superbowl...

1 points
1
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croatpackfan's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:17 am

Tim, I'm on your side. Playing for one win (like Jags or Jets or Browns or Bengals or Lions or Vikings or etc) for decade to assemble team who may win SB (but there is no certainty that will happen, it very often depends on the one referee judgement call, as we saw not long time ago) or not, than again be in miserable situation is something that I also do not understand.

I was enjoying watching Packers those 2 last seasons. YEs, there was games I was pi**ed off by bad showing (against TB, Indy and Vikings), but all other games produced a lot of joy.

I do not like Tom Brady and all hype around him. From my side it looks like many wins were handed to him, many cheatings through the seasons and so on. But it would not change perspective that Tom Brady is GOAT if Packers won that NFCCG 2021. Again Tom Brady would be the main story if TB lost. He is the product of NFL media and he will be for many years from now. That is the truth. Did you read many unfavorable articles or listen similar shows about Tom Brady? No. Why? Because he is pushed by any means to be the story of NFL. 6th rounder who became GOAT!

I can live with that. I just do not read those type of articles and I'm not listening those kinds of shows, discussions, reports, etc. I did not watched SB in live. In the morning (here in Croatia was early morning while TB players were celebrating), I just looked at the result and I was off NFL for 2 days. Tom Brady is not so nice guy as NFL trying to present. By throwing Lombardi trophy around he showed me he does not have any respect for that trophy, he showed me he believe he is greater than game.

But, I'm already impatient to watch another Packers season. Because I enjoyed in Packers style of playing and in their success. Draft will easy that impatience, as all those reports of mini camps, all other training events, TC and possible preseason games. Lets hope all of us that it will be possible to go through those events (pandemic issue), that can shortened time to next season.

Go Pack Go.

-2 points
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2
fastmoving's picture

February 19, 2021 at 10:32 am

Dont have to think about it one second. I would not even switch with NE who may be the only team witch had the better stats.
Tampa is no match at all, one Lombardi and 9 seasons that were over in November? They are not even on the same planet.

But the dramaqueen crowd never gets confused by logic, stats or sense. Never will......

0 points
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Starrbrite's picture

February 19, 2021 at 01:52 pm

Former Rams and Redskins coach George Allen was quoted as saying "The Future Is Now". The Redskins owner at the time (can't recall his name at the moment), fired Coach Allen and when asked why he did so stated, "George was given an unlimited budget and exceeded it." The point I'm making is, signing Watt , Peterson and/or others for a gazillion dollars promises nothing....but still, I'm a "Future is Now" guy.... i.e., let's sign Watt, Peterson, and/or anyone else that we believe can help us win - The future is Now!!

0 points
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flackcatcher's picture

February 19, 2021 at 04:22 pm

Hmmmmm.......... Experiment on Andy Herman Hmmmm......(pause) (where's my drill)

0 points
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