It’s Time For Rodgers To Go

This is no time to run it back. 

At least now we can all re-focus, and the Packers — if they so choose — can finally face the music. 

As much as I harped on Green Bay for stubbornly going all in instead of testing Jordan Love and gaining the highest draft pick possible, I got caught up like everyone else in the silliness  of the past few weeks, and then losing to the Lions was like walking into a lamp post. Not only does it hurt, but you feel like an idiot. 

But the game clarified some important things about the state of this team and where it needs to go. Which should begin with: Aaron Rodgers needs to go.  

Not because his play this year was mediocre, which it was. We can’t really know how serious the thumb injury was, and he’s lost mobility. Yet it’s entirely possible he could return to his high level of play for another year or two.

It shouldn’t matter. Rodgers is hurting the team by not fully buying into a modern scheme. Here’s but one stat: In 2021, the Packers lined Rodgers up under center 502 times. This year it was 326.

Some speculate the thumb was again the culprit. But history, and even Rodgers’ own statements, suggest he just prefers simpler offenses, with less motion and trickery, and fewer times he has to turn his back to the defense. Understandable, but the reason shotgun has gone out of favor is how it limits options and reduces complexities that opposing defenses need to deal with. 

This is especially frustrating given the team’s top-tier running backs.

A hybrid of a West Coast offense and a Shanahan scheme is far less effective, and it’s clear this is a compromise dictated by Rodgers.

Meanwhile, the struggles to score touchdowns inside the red zone, and especially in goal-to-go situations, is becoming the stuff of legend. The lack of better plays for that is inexcusable. 

And then there is Rodgers’ obsession with deep go-balls, hoping his arm will better the odds of what are, at best, 50-50 shots. 

The Packers need a better scheme-fit quarterback. And they must not commit the mortal sin of being stuck in years of QB purgatory if Rodgers were to decide he wants to stay for another year or more. If Love can’t cut it, we need to know now. 

The front office owns some of this as well. Having an overwhelmingly traits-based draft strategy means waiting longer for players to develop into regulars, not to mention difference-makers. Brian Gutekunst got more first-year production out of more rookies this year than in any I can remember, and he needs to follow that up with a 2023 draft that prioritizes tight end first and foremost. For two years running, the lack of a true tight-end threat has limited this offense. Having two is even better. And there will be plenty of other needs once the free-agency dust settles.

Finally, it’s been depressing to hear the early signals from LaFleur that nothing will change on the coaching staff, which means Joe Barry is staying. The Packers need to make a change there, and on the offense to get out of the hybrid scheme rut they are in. 

This might be a playoff-worthy roster on paper, but it isn’t on the field. This is no time to run it back. It’s time for the Packers to face the music. And dance.

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__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

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17 points
 

Comments (205)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:36 am

What screwed up thinking.
Rodgers thumb, Ol, and Rookie WRs, were the ingredients for disaster.
Yet unlike the Brady less Patriots.
We came close to the play-offs, until the team self destructed.
We’ve seen it before. Timely Fumbles.
A defense that can’t stop anyone when it counts.
And such momentum switches; that they would call for any changes.
Frustration. I get it. MLF gets it. Rodgers gets it. Everyone gets it.
But every time we factor in the Rodgers move -on movement.
The past speaks louder than words.
What happened when Rodgers was hurt and went out.
Losing! Can’t get away from that.
And who in the NFL didn’t think that if Rodgers goes down,
The team goes down. And so on.
The Packers need to blow off what writers and others think.
If Denver won with an over the hill Payton Manning.
So can the packers.

-23 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:48 am

That ratio lol. I'll give it you tho SH, you're willing to die on the Rodgers Forever hill. The most loyal fan that Rodgers doesnt even deserve.

0 points
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stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:16 pm

I'm not Loyal. I just don't want to lose. Example.- was Patriots! Even with their Hall of Fame Coach!

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:05 pm

But we are losing. Both on the field and the plot.

0 points
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Rarescope's picture

January 13, 2023 at 05:37 pm

I usually don't bother voting or commenting because it's a hassle to stay logged in and it's mostly people just saying the same thing over and over again. But, in this case, I'll participate I guess.

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Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:46 pm

well your right about that..same people saying the same things over and over...experts all...

0 points
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TommyG's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:08 pm

Manning is a poor comparison. He was injured most of that season, was not the QB who go them back the SB, and he then struggled in that game.

-2 points
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stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:23 pm

I hope Rodgers doesn't go like Manning.
The only thing that will make him retire.
Is the weaponizing of the articles like this one.

-3 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:15 pm

This was Rodger's Manning year. The only difference is, Manning won a Super Bowl during his decline while AR went 8-9, looked lost, constantly throwing off his back foot, with arm mechanics like Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. With all that said, I admire your unwavering adherence to what used to be a fantastic QB. However, if I were a head shrink, I'd be diagnosing you with an acute adjustment disorder (nothing fatal). You're unwilling to accept change. You have a hard time, whether encouraging or dire, to go forward with uncertainty. You would rather grasp onto what you know, in spite of low results, than to reach out towards new, challenging, opportunities. Much respect though. But you have to let go....You....Have....To....Let go.

5 points
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Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:48 pm

do you think anyone of importance reads this crap?? Its fun stuff but I would say not a single thing would ever change because of a bunch of fans on some website...I would hope not...you think MLF or Rodgers reads this and thinks, "oh shit, I gotta try harder, be smarter"...hahaha...funny

1 points
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JamesKnell's picture

January 14, 2023 at 12:45 pm

Mr. run-the-table is going to retire because no one believes in him?

Jeez... there is ONE more year on the guy's contract. The quest for a top five draft pick can wait. Try following the Bears a little.

0 points
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mbpacker's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:28 pm

Sorry can't buy what your selling. Sure, Mgt. has a part to play in all this but 12 held out to be the highest paid QB, so with that comes the responsibility to play at a level to make up for all those issues you mentioned. He wants to be the face of the organization, he wants the offense to be what he wants. Can't make excuses when he comes up short in yet another big game. Can't help it if he took up the large chunk of money and can't afford the players he wants to surround him. The Mgt.'s part is enabling this to continue. As Rodgers said himself, the merry-go-round stops at some point. Lets all hope the he knows it's time to get off. I just hope he retires. If he wants continue to play, than work with Mgt. to get a trade done.

4 points
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stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:10 pm

If you think he held out for the money?-- He will be back.
I would with 50 mil. on the table.
Words are like weapons. The damage is Malice.
At some point, you use the Finger.

-2 points
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Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:41 pm

I'll just say that no one forced the Packers to re-sign Rodgers or offer him the amount of money they did. Also, Rodgers signed his extension in March of 2022. Training camp begins in July. My understanding of a hold out is that he player does not report to camp until his demands are met.

Please explain how signing a contract in March after Murphy gave away any negotiating position by claiming "We're not idiots." is a hold out when training camp begins in July and Rodgers reported on Day One. When/where was the hold out and how were the Packers forced to give Rodgers his current contract? Did Rodgers agent hold a gun to Murphy's or Gute's head? Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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PatrickGB's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:33 pm

I agree. However, if he regresses then his detractors may have a point. I just wish he did not cost so much.

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Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:09 pm

It’s not him in isolation, it’s the cap, the coaching and the roster. He’d be a different proposition with a team loaded and able to load further like Tampa was. We aren’t, we will just damage our future further pretending we are, without any return.

1 points
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Oppy's picture

January 14, 2023 at 12:51 pm

This defense, while they definitely slumped mid-season after Campbell and Gary went out, consistently held strong offensive teams to under-league-average point totals while the offense couldn't score enough to win vs. sub-par defenses.

Hard to play your best defense at the end of the game when you're gassed because of all the 3-and-outs the offense provided due to hero ball on 3rd and short.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:03 am

1000 Thumbs Up Jonathon...This is one the best articles I've read on CHTV in a long time which is saying something since I pretty much love and appreciate EVERYTHING on this site! But I appreciate this because it's short, to the point, and IMO accurate as hell.

Moving on from a future HOF QB is always going to be a scary thing. In 2008 I wasn't thrilled at the idea of Brett Favre not being here anymore, but the Packers made the tough choice because it was the RIGHT choice. Favre was no longer that same QB he had been in GB. He had gotten old and was a diva in his own right. Rodgers may very well go somewhere else and have one his best seasons of his career next year, just like Favre did. But that's okay. IMO Love could have done as well or probably better than Rodgers this year. Rodgers was very average BEFORE the thumb injury and after the bye week. He had very little to do with the Packers winning streak at the end of the year. IT IS TIME...

"Rodgers is hurting the team by not fully buying into a modern scheme. Here’s but one stat: In 2021, the Packers lined Rodgers up under center 502 times. This year it was 326."

This pisses me off to no end. Not only are we stuck with a HC who can't control his team, makes horrible coaching hires and then compounds the issue by keeping them, or can't make an adjustment if his life depended on it. We're also saddled with a QB who won't run the one thing MLF does bring to this team... A great offensive scheme.

You know why Dillon looked like he was running in quicksand and he didn't look nearly as good in 2022? Because of Rodgers refusal to get under center. That's just one example. Remember when Tyler Ervin exploded on the scene? That 2020 offense was FUN. They had one of the best redzone offenses in NFL history in 2020. But in 2021 it wasn't as good and in 2022 it was the WORST in the NLF. Sorry, if I'm paying a QB that much money, he damn well better be better than last in the NFL...At ANYTHING! He's laid an egg the last 3 years AT Lambeau. IT'S TIME!

Last thing lets hope MLF is just giving lip service when the search for a new DC is on. Barry isn't going to change his scheme. It's the scheme he runs. It's the scheme he's ALWAYS run. Why in the hell would you expect different when his entire career has been like this?

UGH!!!!

27 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:52 am

I agree Nick. Losing three straight years in the Playoffs in the Lambeau Shrine is emblematic of who The Flower is: Soft.

12 points
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mrtundra's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:16 am

Yes! I also agree that Rodgers should play under center, instead of in the shotgun. It would be better for our RBs, too. Also, agree on Barry. Barry won't change a thing about this Defense, so MLF, or Gute has to. As for Rodgers, it is time to move on. We are going to take a hit with our cap, but no matter what we do, we are going to take that hit. It may as well look like we have a say in it.

10 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:09 am

Bad hand led to more shotgun snaps. This information was relayed earlier in the season. Again, the HC doesn't have the spine to sit the guy and let Love show up for a few games while the mitt heals???

5 points
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Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:44 pm

Bingo! Thanks, Since '61

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dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:40 am

Situational football (and when you're playing catch-up, you're playing more out of the gun) is going to dictate a lot of what you do on offense, personnel groupings, and the like. The Packers played more football in 2022 either in catch-up mode or in tight ballgames. That exacerbated a tendency to throw, too.

To look at the numbers, under LaF, the QB snaps for the Packers have been...
2022--1095 (326 under center (about 30%))
2021--1115 (502 (about 45%))
2020--1039 (416 (about 40%))
2019--1078 (442 (about 41%))
So total QB snaps varied by about +/-5% around about 1060. I haven't done the math to see if that's normal or not. But 2021 was abnormally high based on LaF's first two seasons which were pretty consistent. 2022 was abnormally low...but the league plays a crap-ton of shotgun. Overall, the league has hovered around 36-37% playing under center in recent years.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--o...

3 points
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mnbadger's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:35 pm

no disrespect dobber, but I don't care what the rest of the league does. The rest of the league has different coaching schemes and personnel so they should run things differently.
This is all about what's best for the GBP'rs. Shotgun is NOT the best for this team. If the 60million dollar man doesn't like it, find him a new home.
The stats dobber you should look at are his qbr ratings in HOME PLAYOFF type games. Terrible. Makes Mitch Trubisky's numbers look good.
I've admired AR12 for a long time, but his time has to be up in GB.
GPG!

5 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 15, 2023 at 04:19 am

Thanks for the data. I think it deserved more upvotes. Playing from behind, broken thumb, leaky offensive line, these things all militate against being under center. Strangely, GB ran more in 2022 than in 2021 or 2020.

1 points
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Packers2020's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:47 pm

Nick,

I am agreeing with you to a certain extent but let me be devils advocate.

How many times in 2019 and 2020 did Rodgers line up under Center? If it is similar to 2021 then I tend to say that it was less under center due to the broken thumb. I am assuming the pain would be horrible getting snaps on a broken thumb on 90% of the plays being under center.

Having said that, I do think Rodgers has too much say in the offense. Father Time has caught up with him and I think it is time for him to move on.

0 points
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ArlenWilliams's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:54 pm

My daydream:

1 Aaron decides he doesn't need the super-mega-money and sits down with Packers management.

2. His request is granted: For the next 2-3 years, he wants to be assistant offensive coordinator and assistant quarterback coach, if he gets to call the plays AND be back-up quarterback, to Jordan Love... for $20M per year.

3. He goes out in style, ala George Blanda and Earl Morral.

0 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:23 pm

Mr. NickP. I think your take is an absolute mic drop.

-1 points
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davekenya's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:23 pm

Yes, overall this was a good article in bringing certain sub-par aspects of the Packers' offense to light and Rodger's possible complicity. The reality (like it or not) is that the 'time for Rodgers to go' also must factor in cap implications. I appreciate this is a separate (but completely necessary) related topic to address.

What do others think:

1.) It seems Rodgers almost always runs the clock down to the last second before having the ball snapped. He says this allows him max time to scan the defense and audible as needed. However, IMHO, as this tendency is known to all opposing defenses, they will know when exactly to 'lock in' their defensive scheme -- and also when the D-line can fully rev-up to disrupt/attack. Snapping the ball more at differing points of the play clock would put the defense more off balance (i.e. when Detroit 'rushed' to the line and snapped the ball to get the 6-yard game-deciding first down at end of the game). Anyway...I'd like to see less predictability here. (If part of the extra time needed pre-snap is 'still' due to the complexity of the plays called in from the sideline, clean this up!)

2.) Why did the team get ('completely') away from no-huddle? Several years ago when they ran it alot, it seemed to me they gained a large advantage over the defense (which couldn't scheme, rest, sub players). I'd like to have this mixed in at least one series a game -- if nothing else to make defenses prep for it.

It just seems that GB runs one of the most predictable offenses in the league...making their o-players work that much harder/more perfectly to be successful.

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:46 am

This is the first year under Rodgers I just don't care. I don't care if he comes back, I don't care if he leaves. I will maintain we have the best chance to win the Super Bowl with Rodgers at QB then anyone else. But if the team is going to keep Joe Barry as the DC I don't see us winning the super bowl either way.

Its easy to place all the blame on the QB. Its easy when we see a WR running open and the QB doesn't throw to him to be the armchair QB and tell him he should have thrown it to the open player. But like yesterday watching Kurt Warner explaining on twitter about the 2nd to last play for GB's offense, anyone that saw that, quickly got a chance to understand that just because we see something, and think something, doesn't mean we truly understand what is going on.
Warner explained how the reads of that play work and how it was supposed to work. it was really a great watch. I recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.

Rodgers had to deal with a lot this year as the QB. First they traded the best WR in the league. They had coaching changes. The OL was a mess for half the year, and had to move players all over to get it going again. The WR's were a mess. All the top WR's on the team missed significant time, minus Lazard. They had maxed out the number of times Winfree could be brought up from the PS before mid season.
Unfortunately WR and OL weren't the only issues on offense. AJ Dillon was not himself for 3/4 of the year. The TE position was essentially a non factor for most of the year.
All 4 TE's put up 76 catches for 676 yards and 4 TD's on the year.
Go back to 2020 Tonyan alone had 52 catches 586 yards and 11 TD's.

There was just too much to overcome on offense regardless of who the QB was. The problem though is that they knew there would be issues on offense this year. They had 3 rookie WR's on offense. They had their best 2 OL coming off torn ACL's. Their top TE also coming off torn ACL. They knew these things. That is why the defense was supposed to carry the team for half the season. The problem is Joe Barry didn't do a good enough job with who he had on defense. They had a stud player on each level and the defense just couldn't get it done. Not all of it is his fault, but some of the things you can put the blame on him. Such as having CB's playing 10 yards off the ball constantly regardless of situations. It cost them the game against the Lions, but how many times this year have we seen 3rd or 4th and less then 5, and our CB's are 10 yards off the ball. Its easy pitch and catch for first downs. Another poor decision is when they had Douglas playing the slot when he is purely a boundary CB. They had all off season to figure out how to stop Jefferson and allowed him to have 9 catches for 184 yards and 2 TD's. That is a poor game plan.

Time for some changes, and it starts with the DC!

-2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:49 am

Why nobody here accept that Davante Adams decided that he will never ever again play for Packers. I bet he would refuse contract similar to one offered and signed with ACR. HE WANTED OUT.

SIMPLE! HE SAID PUBLICLY THAT HE WILL SIT WHOLE SEASON IF THEY TAG HIM!

I say there is many things Packers did wrong in his case, but at the end he KEPT his word. He was not sale himself for few bucks more. That is why he will always have my respect.

Another player said similar. It was announced publicly, but for few bucks more he stepped on his word and came back.

Do you see difference? Thank you!

0 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:43 am

Adams decided he didn't want to play here anymore after GB refused to make him the highest paid WR in the league. The Hopkins deal was a bad deal and it set the market for what Adams wanted.

Unfortunately the Packers weren't willing to pay that price until he said he didn't want to come back. Then they offered him the bigger deal and he basically said kiss my ass.

5 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:31 am

With all due respect:

1) Whether Davante wanted to remain a Packer or not, the FO couldn't pay DA big big $$$ when your aged QB was mistakenly handed the majority of the pie.

2) AR's contract will impact the team make up for 2, 3 years or more.

3) The Packer FO mistake was not trading AR and resigning DA.

6 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:47 am

They chose to offer him the contract after he said he wasn't coming back. Had they offered him the contract before he got to that point, he would have returned.

The problem with your #3 is that until this year Jordan Love did not show them he could be a capable starting QB.

So how do you as a GM go and trade your back to back MVP QB, and have Love start who didn't show he was ready to be a starter last year. How much backlash would the GM get? And then if Love does play horribly, and Rodgers goes somewhere and has another MVP type of season, Gutey likely isn't the GM anymore.

1 points
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2
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:20 pm

That assumes that Gute was confident that this roster plus Rodgers made sense. We know Murphy (and therefore LaFleyr) dud, but Gute’s line towing was late and less effusive and his prior actions strongly suggest at least serious doubt. Either way we have seen now that Rodgers and LaFleur is a false premise. We might be better off with losing LaFleur, but that’s not happening and ignores Rodgers age in the context of this roster and cap and his future effect on the latter.

Had we gone with Love, we might have had more to build with this year. We may have been looking forward to an earlier pick, but either we’d know we need a QB, or at least competition, or we’d be excited about the future as in 2009 and out cap would be thawing. Yes, a GM could have gone with Love/Etling and put us in a better position for next year and beyond.

The tipping point is past. Rodgers does not represent our best chance at a Super Bowl next year in any meaningful sense because this roster and coaching staff won’t give him a chance. Love won’t either, but more cap and growth might get us to a point where he or another might this decade. What Rodgers does is paper ever less credibly over the chasms, to his own detriment. His choice is to retire or negotiate a contract change to make him trade-able to a team that has pieces and coaching. He has the positioning to do that, we just shouldn’t expect much for it.

On to Love, however briefly, on to new coaches while guys like Watson develop. Therein lies the best hope we have if a resurgence. It hasn’t changed since this time last year except that Murphy upped the stakes for the franchise and made us sit through a year of futility without apparently learning a thing at the cost of future options and gifting control to a player who should want to, and we need to, not play for us next year. Time to let go of the past. It’s gone and wasted. Clinging to memories will just tarnish the memory and make the present to come worse.

Sadly, for the reasons we are where we are, Murphy, LaFleur and co. will carry on largely unchanged unless Rodgers forces their hand. They will find, I confidently predict, that it gets them the exact opposite of what they are praying for. Murphy will have a poor reputation, LaFleur probably never head coach again. That’s the reality of excess caution and poverty of imagination taken to a point where there’s no disputing it. We are well on the way to that, another year and we will be further out on a limb already visibly dodgy to the rest of the league.

5 points
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crayzpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:34 pm

CW- Though sometimes redundant, your insights on GB management, coaching, and philosophy rings with so much truth to me, I wish it could be taken as fact and everyone could move on. However, I believe in free speech and diversity of opinions....So here we are. Keep being CW.

0 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:02 pm

The FO offered the match to try and save face for the AR contract blunder. They along with everyone commenting on CHTV knew DA was gone once AR signed on the dotted line.

You trade someone a year or two before they lose value... That takes FO kahunas, GB FO has BBs. AR was taking us nowhere through the playoffs. He has demonstrated that for the past decade. His performance and leadership curve was on downhill slope. Look at all the tremendous draft capital we lost (for several years) along with an onboard DA catching passes from Love.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:16 pm

He did refuse a better contract than the Raiders offered, before we accepted the reality that out only option was trading him. Why is open to question: uncertainty about Rodgers desire to keep playing and for how long has been floated, but Carr (ironically) and close to home seemed to me to be genuine drivers. It could be Ball pissed him off, but it seems to me he just wanted to be where he landed. Whether he still does will be interesting.

1 points
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Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:53 pm

He has stated that it was pretty simple...he wanted to play on the west coast, he didn't know if Rodger was really coming back and Carr is his buddy, plus family really wanted to get out of the midwest/GB...whats so hard to understand?? Now the Raiders and Carr have shit the bed and he's not happy but he's still on the west coast and thats where he will finish..

1 points
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dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:03 am

"I will maintain we have the best chance to win the Super Bowl with Rodgers at QB then anyone else."

I will say that I was in agreement in April when all of this was starting to take shape: the Packers' best shot at winning a SB in 2022-3 was with 12 under center. Their BEST shot...was it still a GOOD shot? Meh. And because of that, I was strongly in the camp to move QB1, get the cap healthy, and build on the young pieces in place.

...and at this stage, it's most likely that people will say that their BEST shot at winning an SB in 2023 is with 12 at QB, which isn't a ringing endorsement. I don't know--and none of us do--whether that would've been true of 2023 if they'd traded ARod last March, but the learning curve for a wet-behind-the-ears starter like Jordan Love is something that we can't estimate, especially in a division where the Packers are looking up at Detroit and Minnesota, and the Bears will have the opportunity to try to fix their glaring problems.

It's hard to get better by standing pat. This team will not be standing pat...but only because its cap issues will force it to get younger and cheaper to operate in the black. That doesn't always argue in favor of improvement, especially when one of their key playmakers (Gary) has an uncertain timeline for return, but the note above about the encouraging play from this season's rookies and other young players leads me to believe they won't fall to the 6-win-or-less category any time soon. The NFCN will be a very competitive division for some time.

LaF's comments regarding his staff don't mean much--a ringing endorsement is way too often followed by an abrupt change. But his commentary (we were better later in the year, so I like where we're going) seems to mask the fact that before they got to 4-8 they were 3-1 at one point--and seemed to be OK--before swooning badly against mediocre teams. The fact that they did "rally" to win four straight when their backs were against the wall says that LaF hasn't lost his players, but they're still not a good team. I'm hoping they're honest with themselves in their self-scout and kick themselves in the backside rather than offering each other platitudes.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:22 am

I don’t think anyone at QB makes the coaching staff we saw this season credible. Put simply, we are not elevating rosters but limiting their competitiveness. Bad coaches/staffs need an inordinate amount of luck to win it all and more than a great QB. For that reason alone, returning Rodgers makes no sense at his present and future cost.

However, the one who has the power to address this is the one who hired LaFleur and ceded control to Rodgers last winter when LaFleur had again just had his backside handed to him by an opposing coach. There lies the problem. Murphy is damned by the contract and by LaFleur, so he will just bluff and put off the inevitable. LaFleur helps him do that and adds a layer of distraction from him in doing so.

The more time we waste arguing about Barry as opposed to LaFleur, the cleaner Murphy remains. Barry may need to go, but LaFleur is the bigger problem and, in turn, Murphy is the root of both and more. LaFleur being kept in by Murphy this year is really more indefensible and allows for the retention of Barry when no new Head Coach worth having would have. Of course, if Murphy repeated his process of last time, I suppose that begs a question and leaves the door open, again showing why Murphy is the root.

7 points
7
0
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:59 am

"The more time we waste arguing about Barry as opposed to LaFleur, the cleaner Murphy remains. Barry may need to go, but LaFleur is the bigger problem and, in turn, Murphy is the root of both and more."

This should be the abstract for any 2022 season synopsis.

4 points
6
2
CheesedDeadHead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:17 am

One of my fist jobs was in a crazy place where the boss was a massive jerk. One of the other employees was a nightmare and completely incompetent. At lunch one day with a small group I asked how the employee kept his job when he was incompetent. A quiet guy who hardly said anything or complained said " the boss keeps him around so that we focus our unhappiness and complaining on him and not the boss." That was my first lesson in management. Hire someone who is worse than you to take the heat when people are unhappy. Enter Joe Barry, MLFs criticism shield.

7 points
7
0
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:02 pm

The lightning rod principle.

1 points
1
0
CheesedDeadHead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:17 pm

Hah! That is a very apt name.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:58 am

The key to this whole thing is Jordan Love. We really don't know what we have in him. He did look really good in the Eagles game. But we have to remember that it was a game in which the Eagles led and they didn't game plan for Love. What will happen when teams game plan for Love?
Before this year Love did not show anything that would suggest he was going to be a good starter in the league. The Eagles game changed that.
Maybe the Packers know what they have in him while watching practices. But us as fans have no clue. Its why I feel Rodgers gives us the best chance at winning right now. Its just how I see it.

"It's hard to get better by standing pat. This team will not be standing pat"
The thing to really remember and look at is how much of an improvement will be made from within this team by the young players taking a step. This rookie class was really good. Most of the players will likely take a step to improve. Next year we should/could have at least 5 starters from this draft class. Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Tom, Doubs. There are a lot of other players that could emerge as well. Enagbare is at the top of that list. But also look at guys like Rhyan, Walker, Jones, Tenuta on the OL. Toure and Melton at WR. Goodson could be a sleeper at RB. Campbell at S.
This draft class was very good and will likely be the key to our future.
They will have the 15th pick in the draft and each round. They will have opportunities to add some very good players this year!

"LaF's comments regarding his staff don't mean much"
We will see if he makes any changes, but at this point I would be more surprised if he did make some of the changes that are needed.

-2 points
2
4
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:02 am

"The key to this whole thing is Jordan Love."

Completely disagree. He's a sideshow to the problems on the field and in the locker room and a bogeyman to those who fear change. He happens to be "the Player X" who is first in line to be the QB beneficiary of the manipulations that need to happen as a result of player decline, cap constraints, and the future health of the franchise. We don't even know if he'd win a preseason QB competition against a journeyman veteran QB. The more we hang up on Jordan Love, the more we diminish the real problems this team is facing.

6 points
7
1
RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:43 am

I say that he is the key in this because if Love looks like he is the next Rodgers/Mahomes or whatever, the Packers tell Rodgers goodbye.
The Packers wouldn't have given Rodgers the contract they did last year if they saw that from Love.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:32 pm

If Love is, then it’s up to them to let him prove it, if he isn’t then they will find someone else who might be. He’s a huge red herring.

The real question is what can this team be with Rodgers with these coaches, this roster and that cap situation. The answer is nothing worth striving for. As such Love is the first step to finding a way back to relevance. If it’s a false one, it’s one that needs to be made before a right one given where we are.

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:57 pm

The mistake in my opinion was drafting Rodgers replacement too early. That is what has lead to where we are now. We traded two picks to draft a guy that hasn't added anything to this team in terms of wins and losses.

I'm not dissing Jordan Love. It certainly isn't his fault. He may turn into a top notch NFL QB. I hope he does, but Gute overreached and underestimated Rodgers. Wouldn't it be nice to know if those two picks he traded would have made a difference the last 3 years. Sadly, we never will.

In my opinion you are correct RC. If the Packers saw what they needed to see in Love the way they did with Rodgers back in the day, they would have traded Rodgers and handed the job to Love along with a handful of draft talent. It would have been a no brainer

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:23 pm

We traded one pick for Love, not two - Our first and another one for their first.

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:08 pm

Jurp, we gave our first and our 4th I believe. That's two picks correct?

So if we don't trade for a player that contributes zero (no fault of his own), we would have two players that may contribute, is that correct?

-1 points
0
1
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:30 pm

Many said the same thing when we selected a draft-free-falling AR. We squandered huge draft opportunities for 3 years waiting on the FO to make a decision on trading Favre. Just as I experienced as a young student who sucked at key card typing, the FO is experiencing what was referred to in the old fortran language days as: "We appear to be stuck in a do-loop." This Packer organization never learns... they create the infinite do-loop. GPG!

2 points
2
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:30 pm

Big difference Bama. We didn't trade up to get Rodgers, he fell to us. The other difference is that Rodgers (unlike Favre) wasn't threatening to retire. He stated more than once that he wanted to play into his 40's and he wanted to retire a Packer.

It was a mistake to draft Love knowing what we know now. That is quite obvious. That being said, Jordan Love may be our QB next year. If he is, I am fully onboard. GPG!!

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

January 14, 2023 at 10:21 am

Rodgers, like Favre has been threatening to call it a career for 3 straight years...as far back as 2020 said he was 50/50 on deciding to retire.

Also, Andrew Brandt, who was an exec in the FO during the Favre/Rodgers years said the conflict between the two camps was constant. Favre and his agent would constantly complain about Rodgers "how would you like to come to work every day with your replacement looking over your shoulder?" promoting they trade Rodgers. Rodgers and his agent would complain "If you aren't going to start me...trade me!"

0 points
0
0
MainePackFan's picture

January 14, 2023 at 12:52 pm

"Rodgers, like Favre has been threatening to call it a career for 3 straight years...as far back as 2020 said he was 50/50 on deciding to retire."

This is true Lambeau, but Rodgers was not talking retirement before Love was drafted. He made it clear he wanted to play into his 40's and retire a Packer.

The Packers made a business decision to draft Love. The jury is still out on that decision.

0 points
0
0
Oppy's picture

January 14, 2023 at 02:26 pm

Jordan Love timeline would have been perfect.

The trade value for Rodgers almost assuredly peaked this past off-season or the season prior to that. Had he been traded during this timeframe, the Packers would have been flush with both cap space and stocked up with draft picks to bolster the roster. Jordan Love, just coming into his own, primed and ready to take the helm and grow with the young, developing team.

I know every Rodgers fanboy claims that Jordan Love's acquisition was too soon, but looking at how everything has transpired, it couldn't have been a better time to draft the back up QB.

The mistake wasn't the drafting of Love. The mistake has been kow-tow'ing to Rodgers and deviating from the plan. The Packers managed to make a bold move that would have paid massive dividends for the long term health of the team, and managed to fuck it all up by second-guessing themselves.

Make no mistake.. The mistake was not moving Rodgers for massive return.

1 points
1
0
Johnblood27's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:49 am

I love hockey!

Let's Go Bruins!

Murphy is at the root of all the Green Bay Packers on-field woes. HE NEEDS TO STEP DOWN RIGHT NOW FOR THE GOOD OF THE FRANCHISE.

Murphy was the dolt who sat on his thumb while TT went from competent to a drooling imbecile.

Murphy was the dolt that usurped all the decision making authority for all aspects of the franchise and neutered the GM and Coach as leaders.

Murphy was the idiot that said "we are not idiots" and then proceeded to dole out the most ridiculous contract in NFL history.

Murphy was the moron who hired a young OC to be the Head Football Coach of the Green Bay Packers after ONE 2 hour interview.

Thats only what I KNOW. How many other stoopid things has he done? Hard to tell without walking the halls at 1265.

He has ben an OK steward of the franchises finances and future revenue streams. But... he copycatted the stadium district concept, nothing original there, He inherited a season ticket waiting list that has no end, he inherited an on-field product that has been winning games at an incredible pace with marque superstar QB's who market well. I could have done that. Where is the meat in this Green Bay sandwich? It certainly is not sitting in the team Presidents chair.

He needs to either acknowledge his error in management structure and reinstate the GM as the head of football operations or he needs to just plain resign and go away.

That is the only way he can preserve a positive legacy for his time in GB.

18 points
21
3
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:13 am

The Packers organization needs to see the need to remove the Chair from football operations. It's one thing if the GM and cap guy want to offer a historic contract to a player and want to consult with the brass or need to hire a new HC, but the Chair shouldn't be otherwise injecting himself into on-field issues.

The problem is/was Murphy's hubris--he clearly as a former player, AD at NU, etc.--coveted that role and he felt he was qualified to serve in that role. Was he wrong? Probably--but the structure he put in place left too many cooks stirring the pot. Player and team management became more chaotic--like taking your dog to the dog park with 20 other dogs than like playing with your dog in the back yard.

The precedent is set for the next Chair to just assume the role and try to function as Murphy 2.0---when you look at the board, it means that next Chair is more likely to be someone who runs car dealerships or hospitals than someone who knows football anywhere close to the level of Murphy.

1 points
4
3
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:35 pm

Absolutely on the nail. The Harlen system was the right one and has to be reinstated for this organization to have the failsafes needed when those running the football side lose track of reality or just fail.

3 points
3
0
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:45 pm

Worse than that... bankers rule the board. The only thing worse is lawyers.

3 points
3
0
gpt999's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:26 am

You are bang on JohnB! Murphy is the 2 ton gorilla in the room that has orchestrated this mess of a past great organization. Bad organizations start right at the top and MM is the prime example of what a corporation - with only money and personal hubris as its goal - de-evolves into. Its good to see others that recognize this. And, oh joy, we get him and his crony directors until July 2025. Let the good times roll...

0 points
1
1
NickPerry's picture

January 15, 2023 at 05:18 am

"1000 Thumbs Up Jonathon...This is one the best articles I've read on CHTV in a long time which is saying something since I pretty much love and appreciate EVERYTHING on this site! But I appreciate this because it's short, to the point, and IMO accurate as hell."

THAT was the way I started my comment on this article.

Well, that goes TIMES THREE for JB27. Moving forward, for anything written on what is wrong with the Packers, Rodgers contract, or MLF, we should just copy and paste THIS comment and it will answer ALL questions and/or concerns...3000 Thumbs Up!

0 points
0
0
Savage57's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:52 am

He's no longer as nifty in the pocket or escaping it as he once was.
He's lost the speed he had to make back-to-him defenders respect his running ability.
He doesn't see the field and process what he's seeing as fast as he once did.
His preternatural accuracy throwing into ridiculously tight windows has abandoned him.
His insistence on running his offense and not the team's is counter-productive and undermines LaFleur's hold on the team.
The clock to :00 on every snap, trying to draw the offside, or the 12 men on the field has exceeded its best if used by date.

He was once great, now he's just good. The ballast of his contract will weigh this team down more than buoy it.

Time to let the Love flow.

35 points
37
2
LambeauPlain's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:50 am

Thumbs up Savage. We all see this. So does MLF...and Gutey...and most frustratingly of all, Mark the Meddler.

All three cannot be saddled with delusion, can they?

3 points
4
1
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:33 am

All that matters is if Murphy suffers from that delusion; the others are Yes Men.

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:59 pm

They serve at the pleasure of the Chair of the Board.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:50 pm

Cookie! Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:56 am

Jonathan, switch, "losing to the Lions was like walking into a lamp post. Not only does it hurt, but you feel like an idiot." to, losing to the Lions was like getting talked into licking the lamp post in -20 weather when back in school. Not only does it hurt, but you feel like an idiot. That's more how I felt.

All your points are well taken, and I don't need to expound on any comments because they've been addressed for or against by comments above.

All EXCEPT: It doesn't matter who the QB is if they don't fix their other issues (coaching, O and D lines, culture). Before Rodgers hurt his thumb/ribs, they couldn't field an NFL O-line. They haven't practiced all together since. I wouldn't want to turn my back either. I agree, you don't need to pay a QB 50-mil to be a game manager (see the 49ers/others). He's supposed to be what takes you over the top when you get your issues fixed (see Chiefs, Buffalo/others).

4 points
6
2
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:20 am

"I agree, you don't need to pay a QB 50-mil to be a game manager (see the 49ers/others). He's supposed to be what takes you over the top when you get your issues fixed (see Chiefs, Buffalo/others)."

Absolutely on the game manager thing, although even QBs who are even just competent still wrangle big coin.

There are lots of ways to structure teams and rosters that allow you to win at a consistent level in the NFL--not saying winning is easy, just that just about every playoff team is structured differently. The things they tend to have in common are discipline and execution...which is as much if not more a reflection of coaching as it is players (so I agree with you on culture).

The more you demand of your QB, the more that person is going to stand out, and the more that person is going to demand in compensation. When you find that person, you want to keep them because continuity and proof of execution matters. I think where I'm going is that you're going to attribute your cap to cover those positions and players that you lean on the most based on scheme and performance. Allen and Mahomes are the focal points of their teams--everything centers on them. The Packers have been mostly a QB-driven franchise for 30 years.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:30 am

The fact is we have a Head Coach who failed to get us over the hump despite two MVP seasons from Rodgers, although the second of those was not on the same level as the first. We have a cap that has been in large part spent forward and a choice of running that into the second half of this decade or losing more talent around the QB, perhaps both. This year we saw widespread evidence of tactical coaching issues and player and coaching evaluation difficulties.

Whether Rodgers is or is not an obstacle for this coaching staff, and to what extent if he is, is really no longer relevant. Even were he to be perfectly compliant from now on, this roster is getting younger and the coaching issues remain. We could not justify extending Rodgers, certainly not on a contract of that scale of cost and giving up that much control. Not because it was Rodgers himself, but because of the overall cap and roster situation.

Rodgers could have a great year physically next year (though I personally think he’s not going to ascend to his peak). Does anyone really think that gets us to the Super Bowl we couldn’t reach in three prior years, two of which he excelled in, with this roster and coaching? If you do, I will be honest and say I think you are just mistaken.

This roster has an intriguing kernel of younger players, but they need time to grow and additions, some of which will need to come from outside with cap we won’t have. The roster looks to be heading for opportunities in ‘24, 25 and beyond. Due to the cap, that depends on more drafts above average and, critically, much better player evaluation, development and incorporation of talent by the coaching staff. The draft will need to beat the odds, the coaching will need to dramatically improve. If they don’t, we will be looking well into the second half of the decade, by which time Rodgers will not be an option.

By then we need a QB to grow with it, not a 41/42 year old. If Love isn’t that then we need to start developing another, but we need to base that on actual play when it matters.. That player may not be the face if the franchise: that could end up being Watson, but the team needs to settle and develop with and grow around that QB.

Really, nothing has changed since this time last year save the disgraceful contract and its consequences, except the increasingly visible flaws in the coaching at all levels on O and D, both tactical and systemic. The reality is we have had a year that has just emphasized that the window had already closed and that before we are ready to reopen it, we need to fix more than just players and we need free cap. Our actions are the complete opposite of that. More of the same at an increasing cost to future cap and roster options. That’s a recipe for no options by the time guys like Watson start to peak.

What do you want, more retreads with less or to commit to trying to capitalize on the Tom/Watson draft? The two are wholly incompatible. That’s why it’s past time for Rodgers and also for LaFleur and Murphy. They were unable to help him over the finish line and are now burdening the future for want of an ability to face up to that. A year of that is enough fools gold. It has to stop: it won’t because Murphy has all the power. The result of that thought as inevitable as it is grim and lasting.

Once again our best hope is Rodgers seeing it, but he did not last year, and shouldn’t have to make such decisions: that should come from the team. Even if he retired, that still leaves us with a coaching staff that has demonstrated that it isn’t elite in many levels and in many facets of coaching. Bissacia aside perhaps, this staff isn’t taking any team to the top. We need to stop making excuses and blaming Rodgers (whether he’s partly culpable or not): thus staff is not elite at any facet of coaching and we’ve seen that demonstrated many times. None of the pieces fit.

13 points
14
1
coolhand's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:47 am

When the FO knew Adams was not going to sign, they should have realized it was time to move on from Rodgers and give Love his shot. Go with youth, stock up on draft picks and possibly find a couple of FAs like the Smiths that can make a difference in key areas.

I love Arod and always have, but I felt the same about Favre when he played games and was not disappointed when he was traded. If I'm Packer's management, as soon as 12 made that move on draft day, that would have signaled his end working for me.

4 points
5
1
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:56 am

"The fact is we have a Head Coach who failed to get us over the hump despite two MVP seasons from Rodgers, although the second of those was not on the same level as the first.'

More in the data department: 10 NFL MVPs have also won the superbowl in an MVP-winning season (17.9%). 6 of those MVPs were QBs (10.7%). Since 2000, no NFL MVP has done both in the same season (0% ... ;) )...indicating that even though we might think that an outstanding individual season (or a single player being both outstanding AND that important to their team's regular season success, which is when the vote is taken) should correlate to SB wins, it does not--especially in the salary cap era.

5 points
6
1
T7Steve's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:06 am

That's because Rodgers won it almost half the time you're talking about. Skews the facts too.

1 points
2
1
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:10 am

Even Tom Brady, with all his MVPs (3) and rings (7), has never won an MVP and SB in the same season. Just a dart throw under those circumstances give you a reasonable chance at scoring both.

1 points
2
1
Ferrari-Driver's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:57 pm

He has a pretty impressive resume though. Three time league MVP and winner of seven Super Bowl games with him being voted the MVP in five of those seven games. quite a noteworthy accomplishment; even our Hall of Fame quarterback named Brett Favre wasn't voted the MVP in the lone Super Bowl win of his lustrous career.

However, dobber, your post is accurate and interesting.

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:08 am

Who would downvote this? Do Murphy or MLF belong to this site?

3 points
4
1
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:11 am

Some people just downvote anything more than a couple paragraphs long....reading, you know.

1 points
4
3
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:14 am

Ah, the "too many words" syndrome. A cousin to the "more than one syllable is bad" syndrome.

2 points
3
1
jvole's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:32 am

Amen.

I'm grateful that I have watched the amazing talent of Rodgers play for the Packers over these many years. But he is his own worse enemy when it comes to schemes and slowly his talent is not able to mask that fact.

And Barry, geez--he might be the anchor that drags MLF down.

8 points
10
2
croatpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:58 am

MLF is well capable to drag himself down. After this year exposure he will be happy to get QB coach job in NFL.

3 points
4
1
jannes bjornson's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:47 am

No doubt. If anyone should go, look at this clown. For reasons beyond the fake punt ,or 4th down deep inside your own territory. A Dbl reverse on a 4th and inches. No need for discussion.

3 points
3
0
jvole's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:48 am

I think MLF could be a good OC. I think he lacks backbone and so he can't be a good HC.

1 points
3
2
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:18 am

To be honest, I'm not convinced he really was a good OC before he was hired. He had an outstanding player (Henry) and rode him, but that was after the first half of that season was a middling bust. I'm of the mind that the Packers were buying pedigree (Sean McVay) over track record.

4 points
5
1
gpt999's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:29 am

MLF - "Live by the Barry, get fired by the Barry"

2 points
2
0
beerandbrats's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:39 am

Well said Jonathan. It's time to move on.

1 points
5
4
nygary's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:56 am

I have said it many times Mr swollen head Rodger's needs to go. Not being around for the rookie receivers this spring really hurt there progression. To me it shows his real dedication to this team. Getting 50mil a year is a joke for a descending player with an attitude.

2 points
9
7
BirdDogUni's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:01 am

I readily admit when we were 4 - 8, playing like dog-shit, I wanted to sit AR12 and see what we had in Jordan Love, which is what the organization should've done, even if they didn't want to. Instead, they won four straight, giving fans hope, only to soil their sheets in a win-&-in scenario, and move back 5 or 6 slots in the draft order for absolutely nothing.

Now, we still don't know what exactly we have in Jordan Love and AR12 still holds all the cards. You think you feel like idiots now? Wait until AR12 rolls into mandatory mini-camp and terrorizes Title Town with his golf cart for at least another season or two.

You can say it's time for AR12 to go all you want, but the fact remains, AR12 isn't going anywhere until he decides. Not you, not me, until he decides. Murphy, Gutey, and Ball saw to that when they extended him last time.

I was all for trading him last off-season. Get as many picks as we could, clear cap space, start the rebuild on our terms, but that didn't happen, and now AR12 holds the team hostage whether he wants to or not. Not only that, but the FO has put the team in an untenable position. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I was encouraged with the two drives Love had against the Eagles, but I don't see how the organization could possibly think that is enough to make an evaluation, yet asking Jordan Love to sit another year, wasting his rookie contract and his career seems like an insane thing to do too.

I don't know what the answers are, but Murphy, Gutey, and Ball have put us in a position that is about as bad as you can conjure up. I don't think they could've %'ed this up any worse if they'd tried. That's not even mentioning the MaLF and Barry coaching disasters.

I won't say the next four months will be fun, because they won't be, but they will be exacerbating, to say the least. Buckle up, it's all downhill from here.

16 points
18
2
Razer's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:35 am

...I don't know what the answers are, but Murphy, Gutey, and Ball have put us in a position that is about as bad as you can conjure up. I don't think they could've %'ed this up any worse if they'd tried. That's not even mentioning the MaLF and Barry coaching disasters...

Well said all around. Your bottomline was particularly accurate. We will see who acknowledges the reality of this team over the next several month. A little facing up to the truth would be refreshing. I fear 'nothing happening' the most.

4 points
5
1
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:28 am

"Murphy, Gutey, and Ball have put us in a position that is about as bad as you can conjure up. "

It can get much worse. I'd argue they aren't quite there, yet. The situation is bad, but there's still time. It's like the end of Indiana Jones III where the German girl is hanging by a thread and still can't give up the grail that's out of reach--and dies. The Packers are teetering on the edge as an organization...they need to choose not to pursue that grail.

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:02 am

Johnatan, good, short article. I hope you'll find a time to write similar article on Mark Murphy and his silos scheme of operating football operation. After all "they are not idiots"!?

5 points
8
3
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:15 pm

There are always silos unless it’s a one person company at the decision making level. The thing about silos is that they only signify if they stand alone, isolated. When Murphy said there were too many silos in his organization he effectively criticized himself. A good leader ensures inter linkage and balance between them even when they are not right at his level. He admitted he hadn’t.

He also admitted that he’d let them form tacitly. Admitting Balk’s role in lieu of TT due to illness had caused battles with the coaching staff that TT was not in a position to nip in the bud, manage or resolve.

In effect Murphy admitted to allowing the silos to close up around themselves and become disparate islands. He then follows it by saying that despite that he’s the best man to prevent that. He then went beyond that and became an active key decision maker and added contracts as an extra silo to boot- as seen when Ball caused Rizzi to be lost.

Among other things, the presidents job is to ensure others work together productively, not to try to achieve that by becoming the nexus. Doing so means now there’s no oversight not personally involved.. Yet another reason why him becoming de facto President and GM should not have been accepted by the Biard or by anyone as sound practice.

3 points
3
0
Razer's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:27 am

There are a lot of "if's" that could make this team better but the realities of this team and organization are troubling. At some point, someone must look into the mirror and examine the reflection with clarity and honesty.

Coaching: Is our coach going to win the big games? Is our coach assembling a world class staff? Is our coach instilling toughness at any level? Hell, does our coach even run the team?

Aaron Rodgers: Even regular season Rodgers didn't show up this year. Can he make the reads and throws to elevate the team? What offense is he running? Will he get better next season with this roster?

Management: Aside from the draft, what resources does this team have to make itself better? At what point does the CAP shell game prevent us from fielding a competitive team?

I love my Packers but I have seen enough of the denial to realize that a total rebuild is inevitable BUT being avoided.

9 points
10
1
mnbadger's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:39 pm

thank you Razer, perfectly stated.
GPG!

4 points
4
0
coolhand's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:55 am

If we keep Rodgers another year, we will lose Love, and never know how good he could be. We invested a lot in him, and keeping him on the bench for 3 years isn't fair to him. So, let's say we keep Rodgers, trade Love, and who do we have as a backup? Etling? Do we waste a draft pick on another backup? Pick up a free agent no one else wants? Management's thinking on this whole situation has been a disaster, and we will see how it plays out over the next 2 years.

3 points
4
1
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:29 am

No you're back to square 1. " If Rodgers gets Hurt" .!!!
(Which IMO is what the OL of Hanson and Newman was about.)
The sabotage to Rodgers MVP, was the OL.
Next 2nd stringers, Rookies, and Cast-offs.
They can find a Flynn anytime. But never a MVP.
But Like the NFL draft, opinions and criticism vary.
Loyalty goes out the window when the pay, doesn't equal the performance.
Love was a mistake. He was so wrong for the All -in.
The back-up should have been a veteran. Gutey F**ked up.
Rodgers was right to want out.
And it should be his decision on retirement. And not one of Force.

.

-2 points
4
6
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:43 am

You call
Rodgers. An
MVP. He is a
Former. mvp and
will Never be an Mvp
again.
His ship has
Sailed.
With Love gone
we will be.
Back to Square
1. With no viable
QB. More
wasted Year.s

How on earth can you write like that? It's not natural.

Your take on Love being a mistake is absurd. We cannot know if it was a mistake until he suits up for the Lions or Panthers or Jets or... some other team. The mistake, as pretty much everyone else on this site admits, was in signing Rodgers last spring instead of trading him.

If AR doesn't retire this year, we are in for a tremendous financial cap hit at the end of the 23 or 24 seasons.

1 points
5
4
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:09 pm

Absurd. Your assumptions Rodgers will never be Rodgers again is absurd,
Love hasn't proved anything yet.
And the absurd assumption is he is Rodgers and the future,
Cap= so why not bring Rodgers back. You have to pay him .
And draft another QB later. There are so many Loves in this draft.
Who want a shot.
Just giving someone the QB 1 job sucks!

0 points
3
3
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:31 pm

LOL.

This just shows you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

"Just giving someone the QB 1 job sucks!"

Well, QB1s earn the job, and you have to assume the Love will be first out of the box if AR retires. You know, Love could've proved he's ready if the LaFuckup had sat AR when he first broke his thumb - he couldn't have done any worse than AR did in those games.

Cap is why YOU TRADE AR NOW - for goodness sake, dude, look at pretty much any article about AR's contract. If you think this off-season's cap hit is bad, look at 23's and 24's. And why should we pay a now-average QB god-like money? You make no sense.

4 points
5
1
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:32 am

"If we keep Rodgers another year, we will lose Love, and never know how good he could be."

No, the Packers have up to two years of team control over Love...it's just that the first is cheap and the second would be under the 5th year option in 2024.

" keeping him on the bench for 3 years isn't fair to him. "

I missed that part where roster management is about being fair to players.

4 points
6
2
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:10 pm

It wasn't fair to draft him in the first place. To Rodgers or Love!

2 points
4
2
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:23 pm

Was it fair to draft Rodgers then? I have always felt those three years were essential to what he became.

3 points
3
0
Oppy's picture

January 14, 2023 at 07:22 pm

Was it fair tp the Packers that Rodgers had become a massive problem and was actively undermining the new coaching staff? Was it fair he decided he didn't need to take coaching? That he was above critique and didn't have to work at improving his slumping form?

Make no mistake, those are the reasons Gutekunst drafted Love.

The sooner the Packers grow a set and tell Rodgers to kick rocks, the better off this team is.

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:54 pm

Dobber earns his second cookie of the thread. Go Dobber go! Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
CheesedDeadHead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:08 am

Many years ago my dad died after 3 months in the hospital. For 2.75 months of that time it was very likely he wouldn't make it. Every day the family looked for any hope and latched onto that when all the data was clear his time was up. What I learnt during that time is that it's important to put all data into perspective no matter what I hoped/prayed/wanted to happen. I look at the 2022 season as a perfect example of fans letting their emotions interfere with a logical evaluation of the data. Some look at the 8-9 record and see hope especially with the 4 game win streak at the end. That 4 game streak started off with 2 wins against the worst teams in the NFL followed by a game where the Dolphins basically threw away the game. The Dolphins were driving with ease against the swiss cheese defense and only lost when they had multiple turnovers in a row, with balls thrown right into defenders hands (degree of difficulty low and only required a catch the ball in my gut effort). The Vikings win was a butt kicking that was keyed by a 2 touchdown ST/Defense lead. I look at that win streak as an outlier to a pretty crappy year. There's not a lot of we kicked butt during that 4 game span and the team came back down to earth against the Lions when they faced, neither of the worst 2 teams in the NFL, and they lost the turnover battle.There was nothing sustainable about that win streak as it was fueled by a combination of bad opponents and a huge number of takeaways. This team could very well be a 5-12 team with an aging quarterback and a bad coaching staff with poor offensive and defensive gameplans. I don't see any glimmer of hope that either MLF or Barry get's it. MLF keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Barry sticks with a horrible gameplan until his job is on the line (his defense underwhelmed last year except for the playoff game then crumpled when they needed to stop the niners from getting into field goal range). Really this defense has had 2 excellent games over 2 years and crap most of the rest. Who keeps there job showing up 6% of the time?

Does Rodgers need to go? Yes, but it's a year too late and requires some backbones. We don't need a rebuild. We need cap space and there are plenty of young players to build around. We need a cleaning out of the trash that's been sold as coaching and leadership. That's by far easier than what the Bears need to do with a roster makeover, it just requires leadership. MM is part of the problem so that means the board needs to step up. Unfortunately, if MM picked them it means they are likely just short of him in backbone and leadership. So, completely useless. Rodgers going will only touch on a part of the problem. Don't get me wrong I will get up and do a happy dance if he is gone, but that's only about 1/3rd of the issues that need to be addressed.

7 points
7
0
HarryHodag's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:11 am

While many here will agree that it's time to move on from Rodgers, for good or bad, there's little said on just how the Packers can do it.

His contract primarily has handcuffed the Packers from rebuilding unless they get very lucky in the draft.

Unless there's a very foolish owner out there willing to take on a huge contract/cap hit for an aging QB the Packers have little choice to bring him back unless he retires.

If they do bring him back Jordan Love should demand a trade.

7 points
8
1
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:46 am

If Rodgers doesn't go this offseason, I think we're on the hook for something like $63million dead money if he retires after the 23 season. TGR would know for sure.

So, if he stays, things will only get worse.

5 points
5
0
beerandbrats's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:59 am

The Jets are willing to pay for a winning QB. The Packers may have to pay half his salary but we put ourselves in this position.

I'm not sure the Jets are an attractive destination for AR12 but Vegas is because they have DA17 and they play in a climate controlled dome, perfect for an aging QB! Tua may face early retirement due to concussions so Miami has potential as well.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Trade AR12 and pay a good portion of his salary to get out of this contract. It's time to move on.

9 points
9
0
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:09 am

An acquiring team gets 12 pretty inexpensively WRT 2023 since so much of his cap hit stays in GB.

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:52 am

The Jets let Mike LaFleur go as OC.

Just throwing this out there, but what if they brought in Hackett to be their OC. I think the Jets would then become a place Rodgers finds very attractive for places to go if he was to be traded somewhere.

2 points
3
1
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:13 am

Great article. I think we should all mail it to 1265, although I'm sure Murphy would never see it.

As someone who once walked into a signpost on Monroe Street in Madison, I can confirm that it hurts like heck and that you feel really stupid when you notice the people across the street hysterically laughing at you.

The worst thing is that I was totally sober and it was in broad daylight.

For me, losing to Detroit felt more like predestination so it didn't hurt much (I didn't even watch the first half), but I did feel pretty stupid about the supportive post I'd made the day before the game.

3 points
4
1
TacoTuesday's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:16 am

Jets Deja Vu / Brett Favre Part Two

A link to the theringer:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/1/12/23550442/why-new-york-jets-shoul...

Hmmmm?

3 points
4
1
MooPack's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:46 am

Very good article. Yes, Jets make most sense. Will they be willing to pull trigger? Will Rodgers? Will FO? That's 3 big ifs. I have my doubts. But...
From article -
"If the Packers bring back Rodgers for 2023, it would actually be a two-year commitment. Last offseason, Green Bay signed Rodgers to a mammoth contract extension: essentially a $150 million deal for three seasons, paying Rodgers an average of $50 million per year. Because of the unique way Rodgers’s contract is structured, he would almost certainly be untradable next offseason (the Packers would have to take an untenable $68 million dead cap hit to make the money work; that’s substantially more than the record $40.5 million the Falcons took on this year after trading Matt Ryan). Even if Rodgers were to retire after next season, it would still cost the Packers $68 million in dead cap, according to CBS contract analyst Joel Corry, who did a deep dive on Rodgers’s contract, although they could split that over two years. And if Rodgers plays two more years and then retires, his dead cap figure would be more than $76 million. In other words, once Rodgers gets his $58 million roster bonus by Week 1 of the 2023 season, he will be essentially untradable."

That essentially means, if Rodgers is back, he's back for two. Love would have to be traded, otherwise it's a waste of money and draft capitol. Speaking of which, it would most likely mean drafting another QB, and probably in round 1, to prepare for when Rodgers is done in a couple years. So then they would be taking away building up other parts of the roster with a top pick that are in dire need of improvement. Does that sound like an intelligent decision?

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:50 am

Good article. I think stockholder gets his wish and the team trades Love. Absolutely gut-wrenchingly obviously stupid decisions seem to be Murphy's MO.

A wise decision would be to package Rodgers with, say, Bahktiari to shore up the Jets' OL and make AR agree to the trade. Not great from our perspective unless we move Jenkins to LT and/or use the Jets' #1 pick on an OT in the draft. But if it means we get the trade done - with a couple of extra draft picks to boot - then we need to do it.

5 points
5
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:24 am

Tired (so tired) of all the excuses being made regarding Rodgers poor & deteriorating play. He has demonstrated he can't win big games! He has demonstrated he can't win playoff games at home year after year. He does not have a good record for coming back in 4th quarters. His QB rating in 2022 was average at best for NFL QB's yet his salary is highest in league. This is a QB whose talents are obviously in decline and who in 2023 his salary basically equals these four players combined salary (very close):

Jaire Alexander
Aaron Jones
David Bachtiari
Kenny Clark

We already have a young QB who in my opinion is equal to Rodgers already if not better than Rodgers in Jordan Love. The only thing Jordan Love needs is game experience and he cannot get that if LF keeps playing Rodgers. It is that simple!

Trade Rodgers for whoever will take him. While I'd like to get a 1st round pick (or more) for him honestly I'd take whatever you can get at this point. Take the draft pick and get a WR, or TE (ideally both). The front office so screwed up last season when they had a once in a lifetime golden opportunity to improve the team. Take the cap hit and lets move on. The Packers need a new & fresh start in 2023, and they need to do whatever possible not to screw up with Jordan Love. He is our future like it or not!

5 points
7
2
Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:39 am

"better than Rodgers" ...and what exactly do you base that on?? You been sneaking into daily practice and have gone to all the traiining camp practices?? I can't wait to see if this kid turns out to be mediocre career back up and see what all you experts say then...I'll remember all of you for sure...maybe ill be wrong...but I doubt it..

0 points
2
2
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:34 pm

Pasty,
Respectfully, while you & maybe some others may not agree let me try sharing my thoughts on why I made that comment.

1. Campbell who practices against Jordan Love every day in practice made the well known statement along the lines that Jordan Love right now is better than many starting QB's in the NFL. This was with Jordan Love having almost zero starting experience in the league. That is pretty impressive!
2. Rodgers QB rating in 2022 was mostly in the middle of the league as a starting QB, but along with the highest salary. The Packers obviously did not get the ROI. Jordan Love obviously has not played enough to have a good sample size to truly evaluate, but for fun....he actually had a better completion percentage than Rodgers. Therefore, play that out if Rodgers was in the middle of the league this year QB wise, yet Jordan Love is better than many starting QB's how do these two QB's rate & end up? Hmmmm!
3. Gutey & LF have expressed support about Jordan Love and his development. Gutey recently shared they know exactly what they have in Jordan Love and are happy with his development. There have been many reports about how much better Jordan Love looks this year.
4. We all know Rodgers cannot run like he used to. I think it is pretty obvious in this category Jordan Love can out run Rodgers whether breaking out of the pocket buying a little extra time, or in running for yardage keeping the defense honest. I also know before someone wants to make the comment that Jordan Love is not one who is going to run a lot.
5. We all saw how well Jordan Love played when thrown in the big game against Philly on a big national stage at the last moment. People always can see what they want but I saw a very talented young man who looked extremely good and IMO played better within the ML offense than Rodgers. He played with rhythm and on time getting his passes out quickly as he made his progressions. The offense was humming with Jordan back there throwing darts.
6. Jordan Love was a blue chip prospect leading up to the 2020 NFL draft. He has only gotten better and better the past 3 years, while it was obvious in 2022 that the 39-year old Rodgers game is on decline. It is irrefutable! One QB is developing at 24-years of age and coming into his own, while another at 39-years old game is deteriorating.
7. Rodgers will be 40-years old in 2023 making a guaranteed $60,000,000. It is Jordan Love's time to take over the reigns and show what he can do. If the Packers can get a draft pick or two from Rodgers to help improve the team they will be better off for it & need to do it.

I'll leave this conversation with this....if Rodgers is coming back to the Packers in 2023 than I'd sure as hell hope Gutey & LF tell Rodgers and Love it is open competition and may the best man win the starting QB position. I am pretty sure I know how that would likely play out if it was an even playing field.

2 points
2
0
croatpackfan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:33 pm

Packerpasty, when you are so sure that Jordan Love will be mediocre career backup, what you'll bet on that. I say to pay 1 year for CheeseheadTV cost whatever they will have. Will you?

2 points
2
0
Oppy's picture

January 14, 2023 at 02:28 pm

Of course you doubt you'll be wrong.

You're a twat. Twats always think they're right.

-1 points
0
1
JohnnyLogan's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:30 am

We're all Green Bay Packers fans and so we all make the same mistake, we overrate our team. Before the season began we convinced ourselves that the defense, made up of seven 1st round picks, was going to be the best in decades. We fooled ourselves. Our DEs were Smith and Gary. Smith is ok, Gary very good. No Joey Bosa or T.J. Watt here, someone who can take over a game, and it's not close. At LB, no superstar here either. DB's?... Jaire is the best player on the D but the other corners were average and the safeties?... one slowing with age and the other afraid to tackle. Throw in the worst DC in the history of football and you've got a really bad defense.

On offense, an O-line made up of two once-great tackles who will likely never be the same. Average guards and center (why oh why would Gute draft Meyers over Creed Humphrey?) a slow #3 receiver in Lazard as your #1, and a bunch of rookies. Watson may turn out all-pro but for now, he's a better version of MVS. At QB, an aging Diva who will never again see the great heights he once attained, coached by a guy in MLF who is the anti-Patton, a cheerleader tasked with leading men, equipped with uninspiring battle plans.

This is not a good team. Should have been blown up as many maintained at the start of the year. If they run it back, as MLF claims to want to do, the disaster will worsen and we'll have many more years like this one.

Oh, to be able to rid ourselves of this QB and coaching staff and do a real makeover. Won't happen, but it should.

7 points
8
1
13TimeChamps's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:37 am

This really isn't that complicated. It's called Father Time.

Unitas, Starr, Jergensen
Montana, Elway, Young
Manning, Ben, Brees

Favre had one good year at 40, then fell off the proverbial cliff at 41. Warren Moon had a little bit of success past 40 I believe. But the reality is, of the thousands(?) of QB's who have played in the NFL, only one...Brady...has had any real success past 40, which makes it even more confusing why they signed that contract with Rodgers, which will take him to age 41.

I think even the casual fan could see a physical drop off with Rodgers this past year. A noticeable lack of mobility, accuracy issues, terribly thrown deep balls. All pretty clear indicators that age is catching up to him.

Whether it's via trade or retirement, it's time to thank AR12 for the great career he had in GB and move on. This is a young man's game and it's always been a game of replacement. All the ayahuasca tea he can drink this offseason isn't going to make him any younger.

8 points
8
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:58 pm

Perfect post 13Times. Agree 100% with a Cookie to boot. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:55 pm

Thanks '61, I appreciate that.

I'm always torn between oatmeal/raisin and chocolate chip.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 09:35 pm

One of each for you 13Times. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:59 am

I'd respectfully and kindly part ways with Aaron Rodgers and Joe Barry.
Wouldn't that bring hope to most of us as Packers fans?
I'd give Matt LaFleur at least one more season to see what he can do without Rodgers, and for continuity.
If Mark Murphy is indeed the Meddler, then I'd try to ease him out, or push him out -- though I'm not sure how realistic it is to do so right away.
***
Even if we're stuck with Rodgers due to a ludicrous contract, I'd make it clear right now that the starter at quarterback next season is Jordan Love.
From what I can tell, Love has shown the talent and the character to be given every chance to lead the Packers into the future.
I'm excited to see what he can do as our quarterback given full support.
***
To help Love, let's try to keep Aaron Jones and perhaps Bakh. Consider Lazard for tight end; I think he already weighs the same as George Kittle.
In general, though, I don't favor making any of our players the highest paid at their position. Make a competitive offer, and then let them leave if they're not happy. We want guys who really want to play for the Packers.
Focus on second contracts to players entering their prime rather than third contracts with players approaching age 30.
Make it clear we have to take care of all of our players, not just a few, for the good of the individuals and the team.
***
Even with the albatross of Rodgers' contract, there is still a lot of talent on the Packers.
We can make the playoffs next year with Love at about 9-8.
In any case, Love is likely the future, and why start with a rookie at quarterback?
I'm hopeful Love is the answer.

2 points
4
2
Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:36 am

Jones and Bakh are AR's good buds...would they even want to hang around for a rebuild?? They obviously know what Love brings to the table they see him in action daily...there could be some serious loss of talent in the coming year....

-2 points
0
2
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:50 am

I'd make it clear we want them back, that we appreciate greatly what they've done for the Packers, but it's okay if they want to move on.
A major reason to keep Jones and Bakh is because of their personal characters to help the Packers transition into the future without a total rebuild -- so it's necessary for them to really want to be here.
If they'd prefer to go elsewhere, no hard feelings, and all the best to them.
***
I'm big on loyalty to proven players with the Packers, but it goes both ways.
Also, things change, and sometimes it's in the best interest of both sides for a player to move on.
If a Joe Montana wants to keep playing football, but the 49ers want to switch to a Steve Young, then it seems everyone can be good with Montana going to the Chiefs.
In this world, nothing is forever.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:45 pm

Neither are good candidates to keep around for a rebuild due to their age at their respective positions. I love Jones, but he’s just not going to carry a team into his 30s and he’s going to want to get paid now and rightly on a longer term deal. Whether Jones is that tight to Rodgers is pure speculation.

3 points
3
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:16 pm

You may be right, Coldworld, about moving on from Jones and Bakh.
If they're already under contract for a year or two, then I'd seriously consider keeping them, but I wouldn't offer either a long-term deal at a ton of money.
Jones seems to have the potential for a couple of more seasons as a star; and Bakh may be finally regaining his health -- but it's the coaches and GM who have to make this kind of evaluation, and then decide how high the cost can be.
My main concern is starting Love. That's the key!
If Jones and Bakh can help make that transition easier at the right price, then I'd like to keep them -- but it may be time to move on from both.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:19 pm

If we rebuild, they are unlikely candidates. Without Rodgers we don’t need them, we need replacements who project further into the future and free cap. With Rodgers we are not rebuilding.

2 points
2
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:48 pm

I think Jones and Bakh could be really good for continuity for a year or two, so that the rebuild on offense isn't too drastic.
We need dramatic change on the Packers, but not total change.
Plus, we have to be realistic about what can change right away.
***
It seems plausible to move on from Rodgers at quarterback and Barry as defensive coordinator (although neither seems likely).
If that could happen, it would be enough change for me for now.
I don't see how to remove Murphy before next season. Is he expected to leave in a year or two, anyway? Maybe that would be the best we could hope for.

0 points
1
1
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:38 pm

I believe he reaches mandatory retirement in early 2025.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:13 pm

jurp you are correct about 2025 as mandatory retirement for Murphy. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:37 pm

How about we package all three to the Jets? We'd clear a ton of cap and gain draft picks in multiple years - and/or a player or two. The Jets would get the two-year rental QB they want, a starting LT and a great RB. They'd be instant AFC East contenders.

If we're going to rebuild, let's do it right.

Oh wait, we'd still have Murphy and MLF. Damn.

2 points
2
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 05:20 pm

Intriguing, jurp, and awesome thinking outside of the box!
While the Jets may not want to obtain Rodgers alone, and Rodgers may not want to go to the Jets, both sides may be interested if Jones and Bakh were included.
It would be really risky for the Jets, but it would at least give them an outside opportunity to be a contender for a season or two -- and give them lots of publicity along the way.
Plus, the Packer could actually get a decent return in trading the three -- although I'd be happy with a couple of draft picks, a 2nd and a 4th.
If not the Jets, perhaps the Titans or another team would like this threesome of Rodgers, Jones, and Bakh.
I'd be thrilled for the Packers.

-1 points
0
1
BirdDogUni's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:51 pm

We're not rebuilding until Rodgers decides to hang them up and I don't see him hanging them up next season. Why even speculate until he makes his decision? I mean, I guess we can speculate, but Gutey already said Jones would be on the team and Bakh is under contract, so we might as well talk about the draft, because that's about the only thing we can do. Lol

1 points
1
0
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:15 pm

No problem. If they're still with the team, ask them each if they are committed to the team without ACR. If not, do what Lombardi did to Jim Ringo.

0 points
0
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:48 am

"Even if we're stuck with Rodgers due to a ludicrous contract, I'd make it clear right now that the starter at quarterback next season is Jordan Love."

Having Rodgers on the sidelines as Love's backup would be nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. Replacing a legend is difficult enough. Replacing him while that legend is fuming on the sidelines watching your every throw would be incredibly unfair to Love. Not to mention they'd be paying a backup $50,000,000.

Of all the options for next year, and I agree there aren't many, that would be the worst in my opinion.

8 points
8
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:56 am

It's not a good option, but perhaps the best option (if we can't work out a trade).
If Rodgers stays, I'd go so far as to put him on the practice squad or have him inactive in some way, if necessary.
The key is to start with Love for the future.
It was a mistake to sign Rodgers, but let's not make two mistakes by missing out on Love.

-2 points
1
3
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:16 pm

It would be the ultimate cluster fxxk of all time! Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:11 pm

Swisch assuming that Rodgers returns to the Packers for the 2023 season announcing Love as the starter is the surest way to split the locker room and destroy the team. Now if Rodgers is injured before the season begins that's another issue. MLF has already stated that he wants Rodgers back next year. Turning around and naming Love as the starter while Rodgers is still on the team would destroy his credibility as the HC and make him look even stupider than he already looks. And if Love flops really badly what then? Bring Rodgers back as the starter to try to rescue the season after you've already publicly humiliated him before his team and the league. The Packers have managed recent player issues badly enough they don't need to prove that THEY ARE IDIOTs.

The majority of players on the team are going to support Rodgers and will see making Love the starter as a betrayal of Rodgers, themselves as players and as throwing away the season. They have zero reason to risk their health and careers playing behind a guy who has literally done nothing at this point in his career. If they see the best player in the history of the team being treated like shxt what type of message does it send to them. "Hey look guys you can play your heart out for the Green Bay Packers for 18 years, win an SB, 4 MVPs, be a first ballot HOFer, make the Packers and the league billions of dollars and we don't give a crap because we'll just shove you to the PS or the sidelines when we feel like it." Yes, that is a great way to inspire a team and the current rookies or possible FAs in the future. Not the optics that a serious organization in any profession would want to put out to the public.

On the bright side it would be exactly the type of disaster that would get Murphy fired for completely destroying the image of the Green Packers in the eyes of the league and the rest of the world. It is exactly the type of catastrophe that every non-profit organization will do anything to prevent. But yes let's go with making the Love the starter and making Rodgers the backup.

Bottom line: Rodgers is the Packers starting QB assuming he does not retire or is not traded or is not injured when the season begins. Personally I'm hoping that Rodgers retires because IT IS TIME for him to do so, health wise and legacy wise. It's in his best interests and probably the Packers best interests if Love works out. Thanks, Since '61

3 points
3
0
splitpea1's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:32 am

There's the potential for some serious turnover on the offensive side of the ball with the team's FAs signing elsewhere and veterans retiring. So where does Rodgers fit into this? He really doesn't. When the Packers have the ball, can you see him trying to adjust to even more new players?

The only sensible course of action is for the Packers to accelerate the rebuilding process and escape the state of limbo we're currently in. Give Love a chance and have a solid backup plan. What's the worst that can happen--we don't make the playoffs, LOL!!??

5 points
5
0
Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:34 am

Guess what...Johnathan isn't the GM or isn't anything close to being listened to by anyone at Lambeau headquarter...maybe Rodger will be traded or hang it up but these articles are just a bunch of dumb speculation...and once again lays all blame on AR...the cult of hate for AR is strong at Cheesehead TV...funny stuff..no one of any importance reads any of this shit I hope you people know that...

-6 points
3
9
13TimeChamps's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:57 am

Kind of curious why you take the time to read...and comment on... "any of this shit".

7 points
7
0
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:40 pm

HILARIOUS!

0 points
0
0
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:03 pm

And yet here you are crying like a baby because many people here dont worship Rodgers like you do.

7 points
7
0
dobber's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:54 pm

The Packers have people in their organization who do nothing but monitor social media sites and outlets like this. So whereas the chief muckety-mucks likely don't visit CHTV, the team has people watching.

6 points
6
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:45 pm

I 100% disagree.....I can guarantee there are people hired to read all the Packer & internet sites. This information is shared when needed within the organization & with the executive committee. No organization football or otherwise operates in a vacuum, or as an ostrich if they want to succeed and be successful.

2 points
2
0
gpt999's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:05 pm

Its hard to think that GB is going to get out of this mess in the coming season without some strong leadership and guts to make tough decisions. And I don't think those qualities are present in GBs front office or coaching staff. I also don't believe you can "teach" a HC to make better decisions and become "tougher" after three seasons of making the same mistakes, over and over again. Can you make a DC suddenly change his passive style and become aggressive and receptive to change without being prodded to do so week after week? Can a former MVP QB turn back the clock and become younger and less egotistical? These are characteristics that are now hard wired into their personalities.

I am a huge Packer fan but a realist. With a poor president that has built an organization around the Peter Principle, its highly unlikely that this team will perform better next season. Accordingly, I am keeping my expectations as low as they can possibly be for next season.

7 points
7
0
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:45 pm

gpt999... Keep shining & speaking the light of Truth! Well said.

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

January 13, 2023 at 11:29 pm

My expectation won't be too high either, gpt, but things have a funny way of happening. Gutey might actually have two good drafts in a row? He did a good job last Spring, maybe he can pull off some more magic.

If AR12 thumb heals up and he stays relatively healthy next season and our rookies make decent 2nd year jumps, we could be a better team, with at least a better record. Bears still suck, mini will revert to the mean, and I think we can at least split with the Lions next season.

There's still hope MaLF changes his mind and fires Barry, but if he doesn't, maybe Barry will listen to his assistants, or MaLF, or the players? If our rookies make that decent jump we all hope they will and we play smarter as a team, we can get back to 10 - 7 or 11 - 6. Especially if MaLF figures out a decent Red Zone package or two.

If we have terrible luck, we can count on a top ten draft pick and another year closer to the rebuild we all know is coming.

1 points
1
0
TarynsEyes's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:23 pm

This team will not be a true SB contender, less Playoff hopeful, with the three prong disadvantage fork (Rodgers, MLF, FO), serving us each one's plate of crap, instead of a cohesive, but defined areas of each, on the plate. Each cannot have what they bring running over onto the other's area.

FO needs to get the players.
HC needs to coach them.
Rodgers needs to lead them.

None of the above have been doing their jobs.

4 points
4
0
13TimeChamps's picture

January 13, 2023 at 12:32 pm

I agree with your last two examples not being addressed properly, not so much your first. There is talent on this team. Super Bowl talent currently? That's debatable, but definitely playoff talent.

3 points
3
0
TarynsEyes's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:05 pm

Yes, there is talent on this team, but playoff talent is now officially in question, not just for the loss to the Lions, but the play all season long. Yes, some need to/will grow, but there were a couple who needed to repeat prior season, didn't, and some who needed to step up were unable. It's more likely they will not next season, as their ceiling has been revealed, and a lower floor being the closer play level.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:04 pm

It looks like it's time for me to take a break from this place. One of my absolute driving beliefs is that I'll be happier if I avoid negative thoughts and people, and there's just way too much negativity. It's out of balance, IMO.

Murphy,Gutekunst, LaFleur will all return, so I don't need to spend my days reading people talking about how that's just doomed to failure right out of the box.

I don't think it's Time for Rodgers to Go; I think it's Time for Love to Play. He was a blue chip first rounder that we've been preparing for 3 years, so I'd say it's time to play. I think we can make some moves to put a more effective offense on the field in 2023 with Love at the helm, and featuring Dillon and Watson and a new guy with a nice set of complementary players around them: Doubs, Toure, DeGuara, And of course, we can strengthen the line by bringing back Nijman and drafting a lineman in the Top 100 to go with Bakhtiari, Runyan, Jenkins, Myers , and Tom. That would give us 7 decent guys, and if Walker, Jones, or Rhyan improve, we'd maybe have 8 or 9, which is what we dress out on gameday.

Free Agency starts in the middle of March, two months from now. I'd suspect by then people will be talking about the draft instead of how hopeless and incompetent everything and everybody is. I'll be back.

-5 points
3
8
TarynsEyes's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:14 pm

“He was a blue chip first rounder”

No he wasn't. It was clear as day he wasn't a true 1st round selection, and just because GB made the mistake of trading back into the 1st round to obtain him, doesn't automatically place a Blue Ribbon around his neck. GB fans, such as yourself, use this reasoning to justify the failure of the draft move that it was and still is. The 23 teams that passed on Rodgers is not an equal qualification for Love. 23 teams made a bad decision, only one, GB, made a bad decision with Love. How much more or less is still up in the air, but a bad decision nonetheless.

-2 points
2
4
Leatherhead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:26 pm

So all the professional scouts around the league who had him as a legitimate franchise QB are just not as smart as you.

Exhibit A.

-1 points
1
2
TarynsEyes's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:08 pm

Geez, what a lame response.

When Ponder, Weeden, Gabbert, Mariota, Tannehill, and another whose name escapes me, were all legit 1st round picks. I said then I wouldn't take any of them in the first round based on their talent/ability, but I understood why teams had to. Thee is a difference, Indy was rumored to take a QB because of need, and Love was still available, and certainly not for being a Blue Chip guy, but a guy a team in need would take whenever available. If GB passed on Love, and Indy took him after GB picked, would you still think him a Blue Chip QB, you know you wouldn't, but as a Packer, sure you do. Most 1st round QB's are not Blue Chip guys, and most prove it quick. Love has proved nothing, accept forcing GB to give Rodgers that contract.

-1 points
1
2
Leatherhead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:35 pm

I would encourage anybody who gives a damn to google "Jordan Love Draft Profile" and read through some of the articles , and where they projected he'd go in the draft and what kind of QB he'd be. Then they can decide for themselves how Love was viewed prior to the draft.

From my quick review that included the Usual Suspects (Kiper, Pauline, Jeremiah, etc) it seems the majority view on their part that Love was a pretty good prospect who might become the best of the really good bunch. In Consensusmockdrafts, he averaged out at #23. Of course he had some warts, but that's what coaching and practice are for. Look at the QBs taken that year ....Burrows, Tua, Herbert, and Hurts (after Love). Is it really impossible to believe that Love might be a pretty good QB for us?

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:55 pm

I have to agree with you that many indeed thought so, but Love was an unusually polarizing prospect. It very much split between those who had followed him throughout college and those who paid attention primarily in his last year. There’s a good article on the subject here that I recommend and dug up again after reading the above
. https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2020/4/7/21211318/jordan-love-202...

1 points
1
0
Swisch's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:36 pm

It's unavoidably negative these days in Green Bay because of having a quarterback whose ego has been growing over the years even as his talent is waning.
As long as the front office and head coach continue to enable Rodgers as a prima donna, then it's a bleak picture.
We have to make the best of it, somehow, and that may entail taking some time off from the melodrama, "The Roadblock of Rodgers."
***
I, too, doubt that there is any change regarding Murphy, Gute, and LaFleur.
It seems likely that Rodgers stays, too, although that's a particularly sad outcome in holding back the Packers recovery to NFL prominence.
For three straight seasons, arrogant Rodgers has been the fault line around which the Packers crumble under pressure.
Unless Rodgers has a dramatic change in humility to be more coachable and agreeable, it's going to be mostly miserable for me as a devoted fan of the Packers.
***
As also noted by Leatherhead, the other urgent consideration is that it's now or never with Love. We have a lot invested in him, and he shows a lot of promise, but he's not going to want to wait any longer on the sidelines.
I'd trade Rodgers for a 4th-round pick and agree to pay part of his salary if he would just move on. I hope for him all the best.

-3 points
2
5
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:47 pm

You'll Leave when the rebuild starts.

0 points
3
3
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:33 pm

That’s when it might start to get interesting again. The current tone is very much characterizeable as ‘there’s nothing to worry about, we will mortgage future years to keep this band of winners together.’ That’s laughable as far as I’m concerned and a one way slope to slippage and then a long hangover. Not much to interesting about more of the same and even less reason to see a resurgence.

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

January 13, 2023 at 08:55 pm

Leatherhead I gave you a thumbs up and I wish I could give you a thousand more. I just wrote a similar post to yours below. I'm sorry that I missed your post because I was too frustrated to continue reading all of this again, and again and again. Yes it's time for Love to play, for Rodgers to retire and for me to move on for awhile. I'll look forward to reading your posts again and everyone else's upon my return. Until then be well. It's Closing Time and I'm going on a sabbatical. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
TommyG's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:14 pm

Rodgers’ cap bites whether the team moves on or not. In truth, he might as well return as it brings in jersey sales, drama, and prime time games. It’s good for the front office whether he is successful or not on the field.

This desire to move on assumes two things: that JL is competent enough to run the system and that MLF is actually a good coach.

JL might fit the system but we do not know. The limited sample size brings no promise of anything.

We do not know that MLF is a good coach. What if the Joe Barry decision is all the better of a choice he is capable of making? Let’s not forget how he screwed up the OL roster in the previous year playoffs. What if his offensive scheme sucks? What if AR is the only thing keeping the offense competitive at all?

I think these are fair questions. I do think AR’s best performances are now fully in the past. I do not see any advantage to ditching AR with that cap hit still hanging around their necks.

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:22 pm

If he is on the roster next year the cap hit gets much larger.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:01 pm

Tommy,
All good points but if Jordan Love is the player we have heard & seen (small sample size yes), and you can get let's say a 1st round draft pick, or maybe even a little more. Let's say a #1 and a #2 in the 2023 draft do you not trade a soon to be 40-year old QB whose play is clearly deteriorating and get what you can now? I would think even the most optimistic rabid fans do not see the team challenging in 2023 for a SB. What is your opinion...do you realistically see the team challenging for a SB in 2023? If not, why would you keep a 40-year old QB whose play appears to be deteriorating when you could get some draft picks to really help solidify a young talented team moving forward. Those extra picks would really help at any of the below mentioned positions:

1. OL and particularly at OT depending on Bachtiari
2. Running back particularly what happens with AJ and his $20,000,000 salary in 2023
3. TE.....do I have to say anything?
4. WR....obviously more talented needed
5. DL with Lowry likely gone
6. Edge....Gary coming back from injury and more depth needed
7. Safety
8. Back-up QB possibly
9. Select a kicker for Crosby replacement

5 points
5
0
BirdDogUni's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:23 pm

The reality is: AR12 isn't going anywhere until AR12 decides he is. No matter what anyone thinks here, Gutey has already expressed the organization's desire to have AR12 at the helm of this sinking ship, even encouraging him full speed ahead. Gutey is just waiting to hear if AR12 is coming back. AR12's announcement whether he's coming back or not will probably come before FA.

Ball is certainly in his office right now trying to figure out how to restructure over half of the contracts of the players under contract for '23, to gain the cap space we need to even function this season.

Once AR12 makes his decision we will know if he is playing in '23 or not. I can't imagine AR12 not playing in the NFL next season, but I suppose there is a small chance he retires. When he doesn't retire, que the trade speculation, which will not happen, unless AR12 says it will, and I don't hold out any hope that he wants a trade.

I've seen this rerun several times. The sooner we all face the fact that AR12 will be in the shotgun leading the Packers next year, the more we can focus on realistic ways to improve this team. Draft, trades (possibly), and FA. I can't see where we'll have the money to sign anyone, but who knows. TGR?

4 points
4
0
Leatherhead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:31 pm

BDU, they're talking about that on the NFL Network right now. Pelissero. His thinking is that Rodgers will let the team know what his plans are before FA. Groovy.

The TEAM's plans are more important, IMO, and the team should be planning to put Love, Dillon, Watson, Doubs, and some new guys behind an improved line.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Rodgers will be on the team next year.

-3 points
0
3
BirdDogUni's picture

January 13, 2023 at 04:40 pm

Lh ~ There are 3 options. He comes back and plays for the Packers. (Most likely.)

He asks for a trade. (Not probable.)

Or he retires. (Which is possible, but very unlikely in my opinion.)

Maybe one other alternative, but I find it highly unlikely. (Gutey trades AR12 without his permission and against Murphy and MaLF's wishes.)

I was hoping we'd see someone with some balls fire Murphy and get a new President, but that is a pipedream. Murphy will ride this train off the Tallahatchie Bridge. AR12 will keep chasing numbers and a shot at glory as long as he can, and I don't blame him a bit.

Might as well put in extra work scouting and try our best to find NFL ready draft picks come April. This organization isn't changing a thing, except how much cap we can keep pushing into the future.

2 points
2
0
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:37 pm

He also expressed Jones will be back.
Which now leads us to Rodgers friends.
And Rodgers said if his friends go. He might Retire.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:25 pm

TGR has been wracking his brain just trying to get under the hurdle to start the league year. It’s very far from pretty.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:52 pm

Yeah, it's ugly. When I go to spotrac.com and play GM, I can usually get under the projected cap for 2023, but it absolutely involves moving Jones. And it's not going to leave us with money for shiny toys.

According to Spotrac, we have 61 guys under contract for next year.but that includes guys who are going to be FAs....Amos, Lazard, Reed, Cobb, Lowry , Crosby, Tonyan. And we're going about $15 million over the projected cap, but Jones alone would save us $10 million, and would only leave us $5 million short, and we could manage that.

By my reckoning, we could be looking at having to replace the following guys from the gameday roster: Lazard, Jones, Newman, Hanson, Cobb, Lewis,Tonyan, Lowry, Reed, Amos. That's 10 guys out of 42. Not including Rodgers, of course, whose place on the roster will be filled by somebody who won't be important until Love gets hurt. We're at over 25% of our Gameday Roster needing a replacement.

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 15, 2023 at 04:42 am

Yeah, not pretty. Extending Jones to gain $10M is fairly easy and even isn't an ugly contract, and one only gets $10.5M by releasing him. Bakh's gets ugly, but pretty easy to get $10M out of him with a restructure (I am not ready to extend him). A release with a June designations provides $17.5M in cap savings on Bakh.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

January 13, 2023 at 10:10 pm

Now you know why Jenkins got signed in a hurry.

1 points
1
0
stormin's picture

January 13, 2023 at 01:35 pm

The only ones that have to go are all you ungrateful so called fans especially the author of this stupid article . When Rodgers time is over and the Packers become a shell of what they are now I bet all you Neanderthals will be bitching a about that, but it will be what you deserve !

-4 points
5
9
701Packer's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:29 pm

Do you know how to avoid "being a shell of themselves"? Restart with a young QB you can evaluate, while having a bunch of future draft picks to work with to find your guy if your young QB isn't that guy. Also having salary cap space to work with.

AR retiring is inevitable, whether now or a year from now. He's not playing til he's 45+. So in keeping him, they don't get back to a super bowl, they lose their young prospect QB, and get themselves into salary cap hell. All with nothing to show for.

6 points
7
1
Packerpasty's picture

January 13, 2023 at 06:59 pm

whats so fuckin' hard for you numbnuts to understand that they have already evaluated Love?? Seen him in action many many days running the practice squad, training camp, etc...there is very little they don't know about Love at this stage of the game...

-1 points
0
1
BAMABADGER's picture

January 13, 2023 at 07:18 pm

Put a spot light on your AR bobblehead, crank up the fireplace, pour a snifter of Courvoisier, sit back, put on your headphones, and relax to "Time in a Bottle" by Jim Croce.

0 points
0
0
Gman1976's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:01 pm

Whether Aaron Rodgers returns next year or not (I believe he will return because he is such a competitor and doesn't want to end on such a downer and can't turn down the money), we still have the same head coach and defensive coordinator (both of whom are known for not making adjustments whether it's schemes or personnel unless they absolutley have to and then it's too little & too late). I sure hope that I am wrong, but I don't picture next year being much better if we have same coaches doing the same routines.

4 points
4
0
Gman1976's picture

January 13, 2023 at 02:01 pm

Whether Aaron Rodgers returns next year or not (I believe he will return because he is such a competitor and doesn't want to end on such a downer and can't turn down the money), we still have the same head coach and defensive coordinator (both of whom are known for not making adjustments whether it's schemes or personnel unless they absolutley have to and then it's too little & too late). I sure hope that I am wrong, but I don't picture next year being much better if we have same coaches doing the same routines.

0 points
0
0
Untylu1968's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:18 pm

"A defense that can't stop anyone when it counts" is only an issue when the offense sucks the whole game, and can't get a first down when it counts! Rodgers glory days are done, time to rip the bandaid off!

2 points
3
1
oceanstrength's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:34 pm

Rodgers accuracy is in decline.
His decision making is in decline. He is sacked at the worst possible moments when he could have thrown the ball away.
His motivation is in decline. He does not have the fire to be at all offseason activities. His priorities lie elsewhere.

0 points
1
1
PatrickGB's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:40 pm

One more year. The cap will improve and Rodgers can leave. I think that’s what the staff is wanting. If he does not play well and gets benched then I expect that #12 does it on his own.

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

January 13, 2023 at 03:52 pm

His cap hit is $68 million if he retires after the 23 season, although it might be able to be split over two years. Either way, the cap isn't scheduled to increase that much right now, and his dead money (if split) is still about 10% of the cap each of those two years. TGR will know the numbers better than me.

1 points
2
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

January 15, 2023 at 05:02 am

Thanks, Jurp. Patrick, GB is in a hole ($40M dead for AR) but if he plays for GB in 2023 on this contract his dead increases to $68M. That is $28M more, and the cap is unlikely to increase that much, and even if it did, there are 52 other players on the team. Just the rookies will get almost $800K as a minimum with third year guys pushing $1M.

It probably is time to quit digging. However, it is probably up to AR, not Gute.