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Why I'm Still Taking Brian Burns at 12

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Why I'm Still Taking Brian Burns at 12

Adding two starting caliber edge rushers in free agency opened up endless possibilities for what the Packers can do with their first pick in the 2019 draft. Brian Gutekunst pushed all his chips into the center of the table by signing Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith and then releasing Nick Perry. As a result, Green Bay’s outside linebacker position will look very different than it has for most of the last decade with Clay Matthews unlikely to be back as well. The Packers addressed their biggest need in free agency and that will certainly help their approach in the upcoming draft, however, does that mean an outside linebacker is completely out of the question at 12thoverall? Maybe not. 

Both Smith’s will bring their own flavor of defensive line play to Mike Pettine’s defense and that will absolutely get the defensive coordinator's creative juices flowing. It’s safe to say the Packers two new edge players excel as power rushers though it's not the only way they can be effective. Actually, both are tremendously athletic but they aren't by any means speed rushers.

Imagine another pass rusher that can win using pure athleticism and strength and has an endless ceiling of potential. That man would be none other than Florida State’s Brian Burns. Yes, you are correct that this is an argument for Green Bay to triple dip into outside linebacker during the 2019 offseason.

Burns had an outstanding NFL combine a few weeks ago when he posted a 4.53 forty-yard dash. For comparison’s sake, the Smith’s 40 times were 4.83 and 4.74 respectively. Burns’ 7.01 three-cone time bests both Smith’s as well. Clearly, with Burns, we are discussing a whole new type of explosiveness, thus an entirely different type of player.

Burns would not necessarily be taking snaps from anyone either. During his time with the Baltimore Ravens, Za’Darius proved he could lineup as an interior defensive lineman preferably as a three-technique that could shoot the gap between the guard and tackle. Meanwhile, Preston is a proven run stopper that has shown the ability to stack and shed blockers in order to locate ball carriers. All three of these guys can be on the field at the same exact time, for any situation.

Drafting Burns at 12 makes even more sense when considering the workload both Smith’s have had in recent years. Za’Darius has never been a full-time starter as he played 67 percent of the defensive snaps in 2018. During his four seasons with the Washington Redskins, Preston’s career-high snap percentage came last year at 81 percent. When he was able to record eight sacks as a rookie and in 2017 his defensive snap percentages were 48 and 69. 

Having fresh edge players goes a long way over the course of an NFL season and it is impossible to have too many. If Montez Sweat is still around when the Packers are on the clock it will be hard to pass him up as well but his flexibility and agility does not show up on tape like it does for Burns. 

If Green Bay selects Burns 12thoverall, we are potentially talking about one of the league’s most potent pass rushes for at least the next four years.

 

 

Brandon Carwile is a Packers writer who also enjoys watching and breaking down film. Follow him on Twitter @PackerScribe.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (114) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Most potent pass rusher fot next 4 years?

I will take Hockenson at #12 most potent TE for the next 10 year's.

jannes bjornson's picture

Farrell, Wilkens, Oliver, Taylor, Hockenson, Fant should be sloted for that pick @ #12. The Bengals may move on Hockenson or White @ number eleven. What will Detroit do, go for White, Sweat or Oliver? If Taylor is there Quinn may take him to shore up the loss of TJ Lang. Lots of scenarios going on in the front ten picks. Do thes teams reach on this over-rated QB class and guys fall to the Pack?

pooch's picture

Just resigned there te

The TKstinator's picture

If Burns is the next Von Miller and Hock is the next (healthy) Gronk, who do you take?

4thand1's picture

Von Gronk

The TKstinator's picture

Aha!
Have your cake and eat it too, eh?
Well played.

4thand10's picture

235 lb OLB....absolutely not, not unless he can put up 30+ on the bench. Speed is great, but as we have seen in the past....when speed runs into power it comes to a dead stop and gets washed out. You gotta think about dudes that can work through no call holds and still get to the QB.

Mike Wendlandt's picture

He was 246 at the Combine and it didn't affect his speed or agility. His long and lanky frame can support more weight.

Rak47's picture

235 LBS? Where are you guys getting these numbers from? Burns weighed 249 lbs at the combine. P. Smith ran 4.71 at his pro day and Z. Smith ran a 4.75 [pro day as well] as his fastest time not 4.83 or whatever the article said. Also Burns posses superior quickness, explosion, and bend but strength/power is not his forte.

Handsback's picture

Mike and Rak47, if Burns weighs 249# at the Combine now...why didn't he weigh that much when he played? There are two options, one legal and one illegal. If we ignore the illegal reason and look at his on the field performance. He did fine, not top 12 fine but maybe 1st round, most likely 2nd round fine. Would the added weight had helped in his game performances? I think it would have and most people would agree. I think Burns is probably a guy who has a specific metabolism and can't keep weight on. He shows great performance...but this is the NFL and a guy that light and has trouble keeping on that weight, will be tossed around like a rag doll. Look at the Redskin's game when rookie Fackrell from Green Bay went against Williams the OT. Oh, it wasn't pretty. Fackrell went airborne once and made the perfect teaching tool of what not to do in the NFL while rushing the passer. He was heavier than Burns! Not saying it will happen to Burns, but too many bigger, and better prospects to me than Burns at 12. Burns to me is another Zack Brown the ILB from Washington. He's a FA now, and can't help but wonder why nobody has signed him yet. When you have video on players, you don't need to look at their 40 times or 3-cone drills. You can see if they can play or not and if they fit your defense. To me, Burns is a DE in a 4-3 defense. Wind him up and let him go. He won't overpower guys, but if there's a miss assignment and a clean path he would be ready to pounce.
Give me a big guy that can take on double teams and still make a play. Only a few of those....that's who I would take.

HankScorpio's picture

"if Burns weighs 249# at the Combine now...why didn't he weigh that much when he played?"

How do you think you know his playing weight at FSU? Did you weigh him? Or are you going off estimates or what FSU listed on the roster? One of those three is reliable. The other two are not.

holmesmd's picture

Well he is a kid and even men who aren’t athletes grow and gain weight well into their 30’s. I’m pretty sure if you add superior genetics & world class training & nutrition that gaining 13 pounds of muscle at that age is pretty easy. I’ve done it and I didn’t have NFL resources and I DID NOT TAKE ROUDS EITHER;) LoL

KeepErMovin's picture

Burns.
Edge > TE

Skip greenBayless's picture

Boyle to Hock for the next 10 years? If you trust me on Boyle being a hall of famer I'll trust you on Hock being the next Gronk ok Doug? Get your guy Gute on Ted's famous red phone that Gute stole from his office prior to Ted leaving and let's get this done Doug!!

P.S. Happy St. Patricks Day to all you drunken Irishmen out there. Take it easy on the PRB people.

The TKstinator's picture

Did you just spell ‘PBR’
As
‘PRB’?

PeteK's picture

I'm with you Doug. A TE that likes to block and can catch the ball is of great value to not only the passing game but also to the running attack. We just spent over 100 mill on Edge rushers and we already have a young one. When will Burns be on the field, on passing downs and 50 mill will be on the bench. I would draft a T before Burns or even a corner.

Nick Perry's picture

Doug you and I and very few other love Hockenson at 12 BUT if Burns is there it would be hard to pass him up. I'm of the opinion this team NEEDS to spend some HIGH picks on the offensive side of the ball. I get the whole can't take a TE at 12 but THIS TE is ranked on most boards as a top 10 overall player.

I'm not crazy about trading back this year BUT if the Packers could get the Redskins 3rd and move back to 15 I think I could get on board. As long as their moving up for a QB. Miami doesn't have a QB so if the Redskins want to get ahead of them GB is sitting in a hell of a spot. Hell Miami might try to move up just to keep the Redskins behind them. If that was to happen I think we could still land Hockenson, Fant, maybe Burns, AND we'd have two 1sts, one 2nd, two 3rd, and 2 4th round picks. That's SEVEN PICKS in the first 119 picks or so or FIVE in the first 77 picks.

WOW, just WOW...

Daren726's picture

Take the pass rushers at 12. Lots of good TE solutions later in the draft.

fthisJack's picture

Miami just signed Fitz so that scenario is out.

HankScorpio's picture

'I'm not crazy about trading back this year BUT if the Packers could get the Redskins 3rd and move back to 15 I think I could get on board."

Both Washington and Carolina (16) hold a mid-3rd and late 3rd.

If you go by the chart, the Redskins are overpaying 1260 to 1200 if they use their early 3rd. For their late 3rd, they'd have to throw in their 5th to get up to 1195.8, which is pretty even with the Packers ever so slight to the bad.

The chart sez Carolina's mid 3rd is 1205 to 1200, which pretty even with the Packers ever so slightly to the good. Their late 3rd + their 4th only totals 1164 but might be the best trade of the bunch. A single move down of 4 spots brings the Packers to 12 picks with 8 in the first 118.

Of course, none of that matters if the board doesn't allow it. Those extra picks would not make up for losing a top player if another one is not still there when they get back on the clock.

Dzehren's picture

Compelling argument. Interesting no mention of Fackrell’s 10.5 sacks last year.

I’d rather see what pass rushers are available at 30 or 44 as I’d prefer DL, OL or ILB @ 12.

CAG123's picture

Why would they need to mention Kyler Fackrell’s 10.5 sacks? It’s understood how he obtained them and it wasn’t from elite pass rush skills it was from Mike Pettine scheming him free. Now I do agree if Williams or Oliver is there at 12 I would rather them take one of them and get another pass rusher in the 2nd.

BamaPackFan's picture

Jaylon Ferguson is an edge that no one seems to be mentioning. His performance and athletic grades make him an intriguing option at 30,leaving 12 available to pick one of the absolute top prospects. I do like Hock or Oliver, I've seen both falling to 12. Maybe even Jonah Williams the T from Alabama.

Qoojo's picture

Definitely take a pass rusher. Can never have too many.

LambeauPlain's picture

Would 53 pass rushers be too many?

I am for trading down a few spots to #15 or #16, then packaging the 2 #2s for another #1 and selecting BAP with those 3 first round selections and get 3 starters on 5 year contracts.

BamaPackFan's picture

I love that Idea. The possibilities are numerous. There are high level starting caliber players available throughout the 1st round.

stockholder's picture

I like Burns. But not @12. TT never got an ILB. I believe Gute could trade up for White. But I'm going this way with NO Trades. #12 Oliver DT #30 Bush #44 Simmons DT #76 Hollins OLB #115 Long ILB #119 Scharping Ot #151 Max Crosby #186 Bryce Love RB #196 Mike Weber RB #228 Malik Gant S

Nick Perry's picture

No TE? No WR? No O-Linemen until 119?

...Common Stockholder you have the highest paid QB in the NFL and your ignoring the offense in the early rounds yet again? You'll basically said MVS and EBS are going to pan out for sure AND Graham and Lewis who you've been critical of are good enough even looking ahead to next season.

stockholder's picture

Nick I had them taking Risner. Then Fant over Risner. But Free Agency Solved the needs. Rodgers has chemistry with his offense. Not Rookies. I left a opening for TE. But Lewis was signed. I look at the depth of the positions. After Devante Adams improvement. I feel the rookies can succeed. The Defense needs rebuilding. With Ryan Leaving, Burks is not the answer. With Daniels being a Free Agent next year. The packers never worked on an extension. With Wilkerson unsigned. Are the clear Holes Offense? No! So I double dipped the DL. I still think Oliver/Wilkens should replace Wilkerson. And I'm a big Simmons fan. He would be perfect to replace Daniels. And Olivers weight may be in question at that position. I bypassed safety because ILB is needed more. And nobody likes the Safeties. So I took Hollins,Crosby and Long for depth. I took Scharping at OT! And the RBs. This is a defensive Draft. Taking offense will only keep us in a REBUILD>

stockholder's picture

Also look at the size and speed of Hollins ,Crosby, and Long. Sure tacklers! Crosby is a top RAS. I still wondered about Frackwel. These guys gives Pettine's defense a lot.

fthisJack's picture

No way Jose!

stockholder's picture

No Way to What.? If you don't think that Oliver, Simmons, Wilkens were not in the Top 10 BPA your wrong. Simmons dropped because of injury. Oliver still is top 10. Wilkens is rated the #2 DT on most big Boards. And Top 10 on Great Blue north. (Who has been right on most players for the last 10 years, the week of the draft. ) Taking Oliver or Wilkens are sure bets to BPA and Need. Simmons is still worth the gamble @44. You want a TE @30. Thats fine. But ILB is a bigger need. Take offense and your going to get ate up by the Lions, Bears, and Vikings. The Lions signed: Amendole Wr 4.5mil, Coleman CB [email protected], Trey Flowers 5/90,Jesse James 5/28.5,Oday Aboushi G 2mil.,Andrew Adams.Zach Zimmer Rb, Romeo Okware [email protected], Charles Washington 645,000. Ansah , Lang, and Quinn gone. So you want a Guard, tackle and TE. When they passed on TE for Jesse James. You got your head on popular. Not What the rest of the league is doing. Picking Defense Builds, and was the BPA. Will Bush be there @30. Doubt it. But it made more sense then offense. You want some draft Crush. I want the best players that won't sit the bench. That help special teams. That assure's us of not throwing money down the drain on our FAs. .

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

I’d love to see them take White if he’s still there at 12. With Ryan now gone, there’s an even bigger need at ILB and we’d have our leader on D for the next decade. Devin Bush would be a great fit as well. Watched him closely over the years at Michigan - guy is a beast!

Minniman's picture

Imagine if the Packers were able to trade back slightly and grab either White/Bush, then Hock/Fant, Simmons early in the second then a Risner/Deiter/Cajuste with the second round 2 pick ...... LB/TE/DL/OL all done and dusted in the first 2 rounds! A guy can dream!

The TKstinator's picture

GB will definitely have some chances to add some nice players at positions of ...”opportunity”!

Hawg Hanner's picture

Martinez is just a guy and can't pass defend. Seems he always tackles after a gain. A great linebacker at 12 would be a revelation.

Skip greenBayless's picture

If Martinez is just a guy we need to get rid of our entire team and start over.

Dash

LambeauPlain's picture

You need to warch more Packer games if you consider Martinez as “just a guy”.

He got more sacks and pressures last year than AJ Hawk got in his entire career.

CalPacker's picture

I look at the tape on somebody like Joe Jackson at Miami and am convinced there are later-round pass-rushing options that 1) show run-stopping versatility; and 2) don't require us to overlook other needs.

Minniman's picture

Funny, I just posted almost the same point a couple of seconds behind you!

Minniman's picture

Brandon, speaking hypothetically here and applying your logic, why not look at Jachai Polite, LJ Collier or Chase Winovich as pure edge rusher projects somewhere in the second or third rounds (or later for Collier and Winovich)? To that point, why not throw a Simmons type in before them to reinforce the line and allow them to pure license to hunt the QB (as the scouting issues with these guys are that they are presently suspect at run defense and are presently pure rushers).

Polite doesn't turn 21 until later this month (Sweat is already 22 and will be 23 at the start of the season). Looking at Polite's combine bulk-up experiment fail he's going to need a couple of years to beef up appropriately for.

TheBigCheeze's picture

definitely NOT polite....had an attitude problem at the combine....

Minniman's picture

I'm not sold in him either - hence why I threw a couple of names into the mix - I was just making the point that he's only 20 and probably still growing.

Looking at FA, neither of the Smith's were taken in the first round - and the lesson there is that there's developmental prospects in the middle rounds that could prevail given time.

Rossonero's picture

My fear -- perhaps irrational -- stems from previous FSU pass rushers who were huge busts. Jamal Reynolds comes to mind.

So does Andre Wadsworth. Wadsworth was drafted #3 overall in 1998 by Arizona.

Like Burns, he wowed people with his athleticism. Wadsworth bench pressed 500 pounds and had a personal best in the squat of 690.

The Steelers' college personnel director, Tom Modrak, said: "He's like a missile when he comes off the ball. He can keep his pads low and still run full speed. He's flexible, and he's around 280 pounds."

There's more examples though. DeMarcus Walker, a 2017 2nd rd pick of the Broncos, had 16 sacks his senior year. He's struggled in the NFL.

Josh Sweat (6'5" 250 lbs.), a 2018 4th rounder the Eagles took, started 0 games and played in 9. (He was getting 1st rd hype last year).

Bottom line, I need to watch more film of him. Still on the fence.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Ding Ding Ding!! The winner!! Yes, why take a guy from FSU at 12? Burns no doubt is another Jamal Reynolds bust waiting to happen. In the end, though he might be too high for some, the much safer pick is in fact Hockenson as Doug has suggested. Boyle is going to need a star tight end when he takes over at some time later this year when Rodgers more than likely gets hurt or for sure next year so it would make sense if you are Gute to get your young star qb a great tight end to rely on and grow together. It is right now the Packers biggest need IMPrO.

Dash

Duneslick's picture

Packer Greg says Boyle a star QB Where did that come from

Demon's picture

Oh, you must not have been here when Dash told us about his "gift". Dash says he has "the gift" to identify franchise and HOF QB's. Seems that Boyle is the next great Packer QB.

Its ironic that no NFL consults him and his gift.

So far, the only gift I can see that Dash has is the gift to talk out of his a$$.

Packerpasty's picture

hahaha...luckey if he's even on the game day roster this year...if Dash were to make out the game day roster how many games does anyone think the Pack would win???? We get it, every blog needs a Stephen A or someone like that...stir the pot, but its getting old...just look at the dislikes, i.e. thumbs down from us real experts...the ones Gutes and Ginger listen to...

A Pickled Packer's picture

He also said and pushing hard at that, to hire Rex Ryan as HC, nuff said. Why give him any attention. Lance this Boyle, because he doesn't know shit.

Gman1976's picture

I like Burns, but must take BPA no matter what since we need an OT or ILB (White?).

DThomas's picture

I heard Paul Imig (the shows Packers analyst) make a compelling argument for an Edge rusher at #12 - but not Burns in particular - on Bill Michaels' show. I agree if that's the player they've analyzed as having the highest ceiling. Gutekunst has the freedom to take the player he & staff view as the most likely to be special. I think he also has the freedom to trade up to be as sure as they can be to get that special player. According to trade value charts, the Packers #12 and #44 are valued between picks #5 and #6. If they made that trade, they'd still have #30 to "replace" their second rounder. Gutekunst has a chance to compound the benefit of those FA signings in the draft.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

The 12 & 44 can get us up to 5 or 6?
How about to get to Oakland to take Bosa or Allen?

Cubbygold's picture

I can't even imagine watching this team if they grabbed bosa and then a TE at 30. The defense would be very entertaining

EddieLeeIvory's picture

The 12 & 44 can get us up to 5 or 6?
How about to get to Oakland to take Bosa or Allen?

DThomas's picture

Yes, according to several sites, #12 = 1200; #30 = 620; and #44 = 460. Pick #5 = 1700; #6 = 1600. They could trade #30 instead and that would get them #4 according to the chart. Of course no one goes strictly by the chart - just gives us an idea of what it'd take to move up in the draft.

Lphill's picture

12 should be Devin White or Devin Bush whichever is there at 12 if they last to that, the middle of the defense will be set , can still get an edge later.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

I like that.
Imagine having a GREAT inside linebacker!

Dzehren's picture

White & Bush are impact, game changers who would make the entire defense better. Speed, size, instincts, coverage ability & leaders who are sure tacklers.

The TKstinator's picture

Best
Available
Devin?

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I'm fine grabbing another Edge in round one. Of the Smiths, Fackrell and a potential R1, at least one of them and possibly two are not going to work out. I for one am sick of slim pickings at Edge and Safety.

Lare's picture

I don't know, it doesn't seem like Gutekunst was going to take an Edge early if he just signed the Smiths there. It doesn't seem like he's going to take a G early as he just signed Turner. He doesn't really need a TE as he's bringing Graham back. And he probably won't draft a FS as he signed Amos.

So what's left of the big need list? A OT take Bulaga's place when he gets injured again. A SS if Josh Jones fails to perform again. A RB for when Aaron Jones gets injured again. A CB for when Kevin King gets injured again. An ILB if Burks doesn't pan out. A backup QB if Kizer & Boyle aren't a future starting QB.

Take your pick, there's lots of holes yet to fill. BPA will probably take care of some of these during the first couple of rounds.

FLPackfan's picture

TE seems to be like WR for the Packers, they need time to develop. That said they should get one to groom behind Graham, Lewis, and Tonyan.

fthisJack's picture

i really like the idea of trading down a bit and still getting a great player. Hockenson, Fant, Bush, on OL, even an edge rusher and getting another player in the top 100.

Dzehren's picture

Good list OT, SS, RB, ILB & RB as you point out. A Jones is the man, but GB needs insurance policy if MLF truly wants to run the ball. Interesting Kapri Bibbs is depth RB. DL & TE are the strength of the draft so hopefully GUTE finds value in each.

4zone's picture

At this point I'm thinking its gonna be pretty hard not to get a great player at #12 whoever it is. Odds of screwing it up are long but not beyond the realm of possibility. I think the last few weeks and minutes leading up to the draft will totally mess up any preconceived notions on how it will all play out. So for now, keep the postulations flowing folks. After about pick 9 I'll have a good idea on who I think we will go with. Or if we might be heading back a few slots to pick up another pick or two.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

I believe several if not all the players mentioned below are going to be available for the Pack at #12 with QB's pushing these players down. I watched the whole combine and 3 players really stood out to me. Exceptional football players whose athleticism were on display significantly setting them apart.

On offense it was clearly Fant. The way LF and Rodgers could use this guy would change the whole offense. It would be a major game changer with Fant even more than some stud at WR. Even at Graham's best back in the day it is hard to picture him as athletic and quick with the upside Fant has. In the past I have said I think Fant goes between about #15 and #20. I have revised this and believe he will likely be gone between #10 and #15. He is that good!

The other two players who really stood out to me at the combine were on defense. Burns stood out way more than any other edge rusher. Significantly more than Sweat who while is crazy fast in a straight line is not as flexible and doesen't have the agility and bend like Burns. The writer above nailed it when he said Burns is quicker, bends better, and more agile than Sweat. Burns IMHO has more upside than Sweat along with being younger. The other player I really liked was White at ILB. A beast who you could plug in right away and he would have impact. A player who would play down in and down out. In Burns you might have to give him a half a season or a full year to really mature strength wise and adapt to NFL OT's. I do not believe the Pack has ever had players like Burns and White in the past 30-years.

Then you have the guy I truly like who is Oliver. The guy is a player and would really change the defense.

How I might draft the first 3 rounds:

At #12:
Depending on how the draft unfolds (barring any top rated players falling that were not supposed to be there at #12) I would take either Oliver or Fant depending on how Gute and LF were thinking. You wouldn't go wrong with either. I definitely would not trade up for sure. Depending on the day I 'might' go Fant as the strength of the draft is the front 7 on defense meaning lots of defensive talent will still be there at #30.

#30:
If I took Fant at #12 I would try picking up ILB Bush or DL Simmons. Ideally, would select Bush.

#44 and #76: If Bush was gone with #30 I would take Simmons quickly at #30. If successful in landing Bush at #30 I would then package our #44 and #76 to early 2nd round (around #34-36 as he will not last) and take Simmons since we would have passed on Oliver at #12. Simmons would really help fortify the DL and has the potential to be a beast. If the Packers took Oliver at #12 I would not change my #30, #44, and #76 selections going heavy defense. Following this I would focus on OL, Safety & RB.

lowcsp's picture

can somone please tell me if you watch the tape on burns and Winovich not the highlights witch one plays harder and would be in on more plays not just a 3rd down player.
The way Jawaan Taylor handle burns should at least make you wonder if he is worthy of the #12 pic

Rak47's picture

Bad example. Jawaan Taylor may be a top ten pick himself and wouldn't even be considered that if all he could handle were scrubs. Taylor is also several years older than Burns and was handling Burns when he was 19. I wouldn't bet on Taylor having his way with Burns 2-3 years from now.

stockholder's picture

Winovich gets tied up. He should not be drafted by the Packers.(doesn't fit) He's not a 3 down player. The best guy on the Mi. Team was Bush. Who got hurt when they played Ohio State. It was a blow out. The buckeyes had speed. Burned them all day. Taylor can dominate. The problem is his feet must be right. Speed rushers should eat him up. Will be a draft bust if he starts to soon. Needs work.

Wilment's picture

I think if one if the top two tight ends are available at twelve, the Packers should draft one. The tight end position at the moment consists of RT, an unproven guy, Graham, an aging guy likely gone by next year. and Mercedes Lewis, who might be the only guy that was in jeopardy of me having more snaps than he did. We can still address the edge/defense at 30 and 44. GO PACK!

stockholder's picture

I never explained why I was against a TE @12. Ebron.!!! Was a major mistake by the Lions. They thought Charlie Sanders. OBJ was the pick. The rest is history.

SterlingSharpe's picture

Ebron scored 13 touchdowns last season with Andrew Luck as his quarterback.

stockholder's picture

He was a Bust for Detroit. And was the wrong pick. You pick that high. You don't take a TE. Over one of the best WRs in the game? If I was TT I would have traded up for OBJ. Dorsey nows talent. He would have stayed away from Ebron.

stockholder's picture

Sounds like a lot of people need the cheesehead TV draft guide.

Minniman's picture

Well played sir!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

This actually reminded me to go buy a copy.

Turophile's picture

I'd go DL Ed Oliver first (probably gone, but my fave pick of those that just might be there).

After that it would be Ferrell, he isn't the athlete Burns is, but he's a tremendous player with elite intangibles.

3rd choice is probably DL Christian Wilkins.

4th is Burns

5th is A.N.Other, whether that is OT Taylor, TE's Fant, and Hockenson, or Edge Sweat.

stockholder's picture

Your choice of Wilkens is right on. If you go to Three sigma Athlete. The Spraq ratings are out on Most. It's to bad you and I are going up against an offense minded bunch. My picks for the OL of Linstrom, Risner were right. But I want defense now. I'm surprised how close my Mock fits.

sam1's picture

Seems somebody needs to readjust their choices of those in the draft and those already on the team. My take on this whole thing is fun to make predictions but those should at least have some credence as to what will happen and why. I can't wait for the draft and the games for the season to start! It should be a very good team being led by Rodgers and hopefully we can get a GOOD reliable vet back up QB and not some young kid who needs to be on the PS and a back up for at least another couple years plus if we can keep them that long!

Lare's picture

I think there's enough talent in this draft that Gutekunst can have his choice of several players at 12 and any of them will be major contributors to the success of the team.

My only advice to him is if TT calls and gives his opinion, do exactly the opposite.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Well they are supposedly paying TT $500,000 a year to be a consultant. Do not know how long that sweet deal is in the works. I recall Wolf getting the same deal after he left the Packers.

Spock's picture

My only take on all this is that (since I don't follow college ball) I'm just happy that Gute can take whomever is his BPA @ 12. My gut feeling is that he will stay put or (maybe) trade a couple spots down if the deal is good and the Packers have enough high-rated players on their board. Should be an exciting draft!

Ferrari Driver's picture

I'm leery of Burns at 12; he tends to remind me of an undersized Jamal Reynolds the Packers drafted years ago in the first round. He was undersized for a defensive end around 6'2" and maybe 255 or 260 and couldn't get around or through NFL tackles. We have to win on this pick and I would love Oliver if he were available or even White who I think may be a pro bowler if he is there or even one of the bookend offense tackles. Maybe Burns a 30 or round two would be a consideration.

Dragon5's picture

Interesting...Sweat apparently has "low risk" heart condition revealed from combine physical.

ballark's picture

THE CASE FOR ANDRE DILLARD

Adding another pass rusher at 12 excites me, as does TE and ILB. But if we've learned one thing from the last few seasons, it's that this team goes as far as Aaron Rodgers takes us. What's more, Rodgers has taken some bruises - the knee, the collarbone, the concussions. In my mind, it's time to invest in some elite protection.

The right side of the line is hardly set in stone. In his 9th season, Bulaga still battles and plays ok when healthy, but expecting 16 games from him at this point in his career, isn't realistic. I know we signed Turner, and we're paying him starter money, but seemingly that's to slot him in at guard, or for depth. To me, it's time to find that long term solve at right tackle.

Rodgers and roster considerations aside, I also just straight up LOVE Andre Dillard. Watch some tape on this guy. He just looks so fluid. Killed the combine. And while he's plenty strong, it looks like he can get stronger.

So while I'd love TE, ILB, or OLB, the pick that brings me the most peace of mind is Dillard. Immediately, it provides critical depth for 2019, and its a long term solve for the rest of Rodgers' career in GB.

Grab Andre Dillard at 12 and then start thinking TE, ILB and OLB at 30 and 44. That's my hope.

SterlingSharpe's picture

Not very exciting, or sexy, but I can understand where you're coming from. If he really is going to be a great NFL OT, then take him. I haven't scouted him so I am not qualified to comment.

I do know the only 1st round offensive lineman in Rodgers career has been Derek Sherrod, who didn't pan out because Marshall Newhouse allowed Tamba Hali to go right around him all day long in 2011 week 15 when the Packers were still undefeated. He went into Sherrod's leg and broke it in 2 places, basically taking away the legs that made Sherrod worth a pick. Anyway, that was just typical bad Packers luck. Lost Nick Collins that year too.

The TKstinator's picture

“Not qualified to comment”...c’mon, man, around here we do it anyway! ~~~

CalPacker's picture

OL is definitely a priority, but unless Taylor is available, I'd rather dangle Dillard in front of the Texans, draft down for #23 and #55, and maybe take Lindstrom and Howard at #44 and #55...

MikeS's picture

Enough!! Hockenson or best OL AT 12, The other at 30. Saftey at 44. RB at 76.

4thand1's picture

Ryan gone, CM III may be gone also. #12 could be White or Bush. BAP

EdsLaces's picture

Sweat having a heart condition or not ...I'm taking one of the Devins. I originally liked White the most, but the more I watch Bush the more of a monster he seems to become. I feel like he could line up allover the place as well...

D Ernie's picture

Even with the free agent pick ups there is still a lot of holes that need filling and not enough picks to do it.
The only time I beleive a team goes BPA is A, they are stacked and have the luxury to pick for skill and not need or B, the team has so many needs why not go BPA and think two drafts to turn it around.
IMO this team was a dumpster fire at the end of last year. By dumping dead wood and bringing in free agents, its turning around but there is still some huge holes to fill and not enough bodies to do it.
1. Check, the team needs more edge guys.
2. Check, despirate for at least two good O linemen
3. Check our linebackers and safety needs must be strenghthened.
4. For sure a running back that can run outside and a speedy receiver or slot player and O at least one decent TE.
This team IMO was a total fn dumpster fire at the end of the year and its already vastly improved. Got rid of deadwood and got some free agent help. Its turning around for sure but it will take a lot to put that fire out.

Old School's picture

None of the players mentioned will make the difference if we have to play without Rodgers. All of our eggs are in one QB basket.

ballark's picture

But isn't that kind of true for almost every team in the NFL?

I agree that Packers' success rides on Rodgers, which is (in part) why I'm pulling for Dillard at 12.

Minniman's picture

Not really, Philly won a SB with their backup QB. Certain teams that have a rookie QB and are built with heavy depth because they're not paying a franchise QB may be able to.

albert999's picture

DICK DALE DEAD AT 81 DASH
R.I.P.

Uncle Albert

Lphill's picture

Correct Edlaces one of the Devins at 12 if one is still there. The defense will be set .

Donster's picture

Hockenson and Fant will be gone by 30. You take Hock at 12. Our current TE's are Graham, Lewis, and Tonyan. Graham was crap last year. Should be cut to save the $10 million to sign a safety and inside LB. Lewis will be 35 when the season starts. So he won't be around next season, at least the law of averages would lean that way. Tonyan is still learning the position. He's a WR, not a true TE. Can't block.

Both White's are very tempting. I would wait and draft T.J Edwards in the 3rd or 4th round.

Hockenson can block, and run very good routes. Watched him play and saw him pancake DE's and LB's. Fant is just another WR. Not as good a blocker, and is a bit of a Diva. Compare his stats the last five games at Iowa to Hockenson via player profiles on ESPN. Fant just went through the motions his final games. And didn't play in Iowa's bowl game against Mississippi State. Yes he killed it at the combine. But I would take Hockenson. He had a great combine too. And he is a team guy. Never gives up. Plays hard on every play.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Donster,
Nice post and analysis. So much better than the 'DRAFT HOCK' with no reason or explanation. Curious why do you call Fant a Diva? If there is a good explanation would be good to know. Thanks!

Minniman's picture

A valid point KTSOOY, but the reality is that we are yet to see a MLF Packers offense in action. As such there's no evidence to validate a decision that would say that Hockenson is better than Fant as a TE for how the Packers intend to use them.

FWIW as the available video suggests that Hockenson portrays as the true TE and Fant as a TE/WR type - thus if GB draft one of them, it will be telling in how the Packers will be looking to play TE's.

Re Hockensons blocking, it's worth noting that his splash plays were mostly against inferior opponents that may not see an NFL field as a player. Huge props to him for effort though, that certainly counts.

Having gone back and had a look at the 2019 Outback bowl "win" against Mississippi State - it was more of a case that MS squandered the game than Iowa won it. Hockenson wasn't a major factor in that game....... but looking at the highlights reel, Jeffery Simmons was impactful.

My thoughts are still with Hockenson over Fant as he provides a player that the Packers presently do not have on their roster - Fant could be interchanged with an ESB or MVS as the big-bodied target

Donster's picture

I explained my opinions, and others, about Fant in my last paragraph. I live 30 miles from Iowa City. It is known there was an issue between Fant and the coaching staff late in the season. Fant thought he should be playing more during Iowa's 3 game skid. Coach Ferentz said that he wasn't out on the field as often because Hockenson was utilized more because of his ability to block on running plays. Fant wasn't happy and there became some distrust between Fant and the coaches. Then his brother had a few tweets bitching about his brother not playing enough. But I watched all the Hawkeye games, and yes, he wasn't out on the field as much, but when he was, you could see on many plays he was just going through the motions. He has an attitude issue at times. Hockenson is just an all around better tight end. Hockenson does everything he is told to help the team. Fant towards the end of the season didn't, because of his attitude, and that attributed to his lack of playing time. Ferentz wouldn't call him out publicly. He wouldn't do that to a player. Fant will be successful I'm sure. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind him in a Packer uniform. But I prefer Hockenson, simply because he gives 100% all the time. And he is just a hard nosed guy and team player.

Rick F's picture

Wish list options 1 Oliver 2 white 3 burns 4 Williams 5 Hockenson/fant. Which players impacts year 1 right away? Would people be happy with Jonah Williams at 12 and Fant at 30. Or Oliver at 12 and fant 30?

Ferrari Driver's picture

If Oliver is available at 12, I hope we take him. He isn't very tall around 6' or maybe 6'1" at best, but he is so quick. He reminds me of a young Warren Sapp and perhaps even better. Team him up with Clark and Daniels and that will be one powerful inside push up the middle.

leaerin4's picture

I still think we take a long look at what's available at 12 on both sides of the ball. We'll most likely go defense,but we shouldn't ignore the fact that a plug and play offensive lineman to protect the franchise is also a good idea. Protect Arod and he'll win more games for us than any draft pick. I'm all in for drafting a tight end at 30,one of the kids from Iowa and thanking the Saints for him come playoff time. GUTE laid the ground work in free agency I believe for us to have an outstanding draft and turn things around this year and rule the NFC North once again.

leaerin4's picture

I still think we take a long look at what's available at 12 on both sides of the ball. We'll most likely go defense,but we shouldn't ignore the fact that a plug and play offensive lineman to protect the franchise is also a good idea. Protect Arod and he'll win more games for us than any draft pick. I'm all in for drafting a tight end at 30,one of the kids from Iowa and thanking the Saints for him come playoff time. GUTE laid the ground work in free agency I believe for us to have an outstanding draft and turn things around this year and rule the NFC North once again.

HankScorpio's picture

I think Burns will be gone before 12. But if he's not, I'm rushing the card up. He's got freaky athleticism and is said to be a very polished rusher. If you get a shot at a guy like that, you take it, IMO.

The two Smiths are on de-facto 2 yr deals before their cap numbers demand re-doing their contracts or release. So it's not like Edge rusher is solved for years to come.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Ok now people said they would take SWEAT over Burns if available, so now what are you going to do?
SWEAT has heart condition. So, we better take him at #12 right? That's what we were going to do.

Just take Hockenson at #12. Safest player in the draft and be done with it!!

HankScorpio's picture

Sweat's heart condition was well known, according to his agents. I'm not sure it is a factor. And neither is anyone else on this board, unless they are are licensed doctors that have examined Sweat or read an exam report.

Lphill's picture

cant forget about TE Irv Smith Jr either.

porupack's picture

Hock/Fant at #12
Lindstrom #30

Makes biggest impact on that offense which synegizes with all the other assets (Rodgers, Adam, Lindsley, Bahk, the new WRs, and AJones.

A cranked up offense with 2 players will have more impact than a cranked up defense (which still needs at least 3 playmakers).

Thus, both first rounders for the best TE and Guard at those picks.

RickInCali's picture

i would like them to slide down if Ed Oliver isn’t there. I believe the wideouts, qb’s and corners will go higher than people currently expect.

I think they could slide as far as 20, pick up another top-90 pick and still land the Florida safety or Adderley and one of the Iowa TE’s. Don’t sleep on the Oklahoma wideout either. I know he’s little, but he’s pretty electric.

Dzehren's picture

So you want a safety, TE or WR with GB's first pick if Oliver is gone? What about one of the Devin's or an OT @12?

leaerin4's picture

If Hochensen is still there at 12 I hope we don't pass him by. It's crazy to think that three tight ends might be picked in the first round, but I've never seen talent like this at the tight end position. Mock drafts have at least six teams being mentioned for tight ends. Starting with Detroit and ending with the Patriots. Hochensen is grading out as the fifth highest in the top 50 available in the draft.

leaerin4's picture

If Hochensen is still there at 12 I hope we don't pass him by. It's crazy to think that three tight ends might be picked in the first round, but I've never seen talent like this at the tight end position. Mock drafts have at least six teams being mentioned for tight ends. Starting with Detroit and ending with the Patriots. Hochensen is grading out as the fifth highest in the top 50 available in the draft.

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