The Lass Word: This Year's Preseason Games Are Actually Important
Starters have to play, and that makes it serious business.
By KenLass
Once upon a time NFL teams played six preseason games. The games were necessary and important for two reasons. The players needed them to play themselves back into condition. Most of them didn’t make enough money to last through the calendar year, so they had to take offseason jobs to make ends meet. They were too busy working to stay in shape.
But the main reason was because the franchises were using preseason games to bring in extra revenue by moving them to non-NFL cities. Football-starved towns like San Antonio, Louisville and Birmingham paid big bucks to host an exhibition game.
The decline in relevance for preseason football began in the late seventies, when the league started to sign mega-money deals with the TV networks. No longer did franchises need to farm out the games. The huge network contracts enabled player salaries to skyrocket. Players didn’t have to take offseason jobs anymore. In fact, making an NFL roster became so lucrative that players had to report to camp in tip-top shape to prevent someone from taking their spot.
Teams reached the point where their investment in key players got so high it was no longer worth the risk to play them in games that didn’t matter. The number of preseason games was reduced from six to four, then from four to three. And now it seems inevitable the number will shrink to two, followed by an eighteen game regular season.
The games themselves have devolved into largely meaningless contests played by marginal prospects, most of whom won’t be around when the bell rings for week one. Coaches and front offices won’t admit it publicly, but privately they hate preseason games. The events have become little more than an annoyance, a worrisome hurdle they have to clear to get a healthy team to the starting line. They much prefer the increasingly popular combined practices, which are more controlled, and in which you can play your franchise quarterback and not worry that some undrafted rookie will try to make a name for himself by taking out his knees. The Packers will take part in such a practice on Wednesday with the Bengals in Cincinnati, prior to Friday night’s game.
As superfluous as preseason games have become, there are exceptions. Green Bay’s three contests this month take on uncommon importance. For the first time in over a decade, a considerable chunk of the starting line ups remain undetermined. I count at least eight starters on offense and defense that can’t be sure of their positions heading into Friday night. They will have to secure their jobs by playing well in games.
That means, unlike the norm, we will see a heavy dose of starters playing a considerable amount of time. Matt LaFleur indicates that will be particularly true of the offensive line, where the center, right guard and right tackle spots are unsettled. Josh Myers, Jonathan Runyan and Yosh Nijman are the current starters, but it becomes clearer with every practice that the team has to find a spot for second year man Zach Tom. Sean Rhyan is also beginning to push into the mix.
Tight end? Rookie Luke Musgrave looks great in practice, but does it translate to a game? Only way to find out is to play a game. If you consider the third wide receiver to be a starting position, the team needs to sort out Jayden Reed, Samori Toure, Malik Heath and Bo Melton in situations where there are real bullets flying.
On defense Kingsley Enagbare can’t feel comfortable with his edge rusher position, considering first round pick Lukas Van Ness, Justin Hollins and Brenton Cox are breathing down his neck. Then there’s safety. You think Rudy Ford doesn’t know he has to play in actual games and ball out in the preseason to keep his job? “We have to put these guys in a position so that we know what we have” said General Manager Brian Gutekunst.
I’m guessing Anders Carlson will have a lump in his throat when he lines up for his first field goal attempt in a game, knowing the Packers have not lost Mason Crosby’s phone number.
And, of course, we haven’t even mentioned Jordan Love. He has to play in the preseason. And play quite a bit. And if Love plays, the starters around him will play as well. “What Jordan needs effects a lot of other guys out there” Gutekunst told the beat writers on Friday. “When Jordan’s in there, there’s gonna be a bunch of other players in there as well.” The coaches need to see if Love can do it without wearing that red jersey. He needs the comfort level and confidence that comes from being able to walk to the sideline and pull off your jersey after leading the offense to a couple of solid scoring drives.
Generally, it doesn’t matter who wins preseason games. The final score is meaningless. But I believe this year is different in Green Bay. I believe It is important for this young team to learn how to win. To feel the satisfaction of a win. They must reestablish the culture, even if it is just the scrubs left on the field in the end.
So let the games begin. It is, without question, the most important preseason in recent memory.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
Comments (94)
NickPerry
August 07, 2023 at 06:29 am
I'll be holding my breath every preseason game...
packerbackerjim
August 07, 2023 at 11:38 am
I think I preferred it when they were allowed to be called exhibition games. The name was changed to protect the overly sensitive and/or greedy. It wasn’t any more critical then just, an opportunity for the curious fan to see players lower on the depth chart.
SoCalJim
August 07, 2023 at 08:04 pm
I’m on board with that sentiment, Nick, although in my opinion, the team has suffered a lot from hardly playing starters in the preseason lately. I’m hopeful the team stays healthy and will be more prepared this season. No slow starts! Go Pack Go!
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 06:29 am
All we’ve had to this point are practices with an enormous number of new players, especially rookies or Year 2 players. 60+ from our 90 man roster?
Everyone is playing carefully, not to injure in practice. This preseason will help Green Bay more than in anytime I can recall, as long as we can stay healthy… (Thanks for the qualifier, Nick!)
LFG GPG
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 09:41 am
In the end, regular season football isn’t played to avoid getting injured. It’s not really practicing effectively to play dialed back as that entails. For those who need to acclimatize, real contact and speed is needed. Just as some players shine in shorts but dissapoear in pads so some excel in practice but not in games when it’s faster and more physical. Not all risk can be alleviated if you want to be good. The trick is to maximize the benefits. That comes from exposing players that need to be tested most and then not avoiding the answers.
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 12:54 pm
Well, I'm not sure if you saw the Family Night action, but it coincides with what I had said. Brooks, Wooden, Wyatt and LVN had Love "sacked," but they pulled up to avoid contact. Same with some run stops I saw. That's all I was alluding to with that statement.
I'm hopeful we can stay healthy through the meetings with those on our Preseason Schedule, while putting it all out there to challenge for positions. That iron sharpening iron thing you're speaking of is indeed real.
So many of our important positional battles require the competition only other teams hoping for the same can deliver. OL, DL, S, LB, TE... WRs and CBs fighting for contested catches, blocking/tackling v. run... RBs fighting through contact... etc.
I'm looking forward to seeing what our team has got. Bill Belichick with Tom Brady never shied away from Preseason competition. Why? They wanted readiness, and the measure those games provide in making personnel choices.
We are very much on the same page with that.
Personally, I've always enjoyed seeing the entire TC through preseason's end, and the players fighting for positions on the Final 53 man roster. I go to practices & preseason games just to see those competitions with my own eyes, and I love it.
Sam Shields signed as a UDFA in April of 2010. Look how well that worked out. Shields & Morgan Burnett went on to become the first rookie DB tandem to start for the Packers since the NFL/AFL merger. Shields made 2 INTs, 2 CDs, 1 sack and a FF against the Bears in that NFC Championship game.
I'm not afraid of rookies starting for the Packers.
I'm so right with you, Coldworld, on hoping LaFleur & his staff, along with Gutekunst, assign those 53 roster positions based on the merit earned in this competition, honoring the results of higher performance.
Johnblood27
August 07, 2023 at 06:39 am
I couldn't agree more Ken.
I get the injury thing, but c'mon man! There comes a time when mommy has to take the helmet off her kiddies when they are walking down the sidewalk.
Injuries can happen at any time in a professional athlete's training regimen, see Bakhtiari, David or Nelson, Jordy for examples of injuries that had nothing to do with the perceived risks of playing NFL football.
There have been countless instances where a player has hurt himself enough to miss games simply by working out in the manner needed to prepare himself to compete at the NFL level. Should teams forbid their star players from working out due to injury risk? Hmmmmmmm....
Some bubble wrap is reasonable, the fear that is used as an excuse nowadays is just over the top. Yeah, the games are meaningless in the standings and statistics, but the games are not completely meaningless for evaluation purposes for management and from a player perspective as an opportunity to gain the career goal of being an NFL player.
If the games had no meaning whatsoever the NFL would have simply converted them into regular season games, collected the checks and moved away from exhibition games altogether. That hasn't happened and likely will not so long as first round draft picks can still become busts. Players need to prove themselves and veterans need to get up to speed of real competitive contests.
A couple exhibition games would be plenty along with TC. Thats where we are heading.
DoubleJ
August 07, 2023 at 08:16 am
"Injuries can happen at any time in a professional athlete's training regimen, see Bakhtiari, David or Nelson, Jordy for examples of injuries that had nothing to do with the perceived risks of playing NFL football."
Injuries don't even have to happen while training. "Brewers pitcher tears knee ligament taking off his shoe (2016) Former Brewers reliever Will Smith tore his LCL while he was balancing on one leg and trying to take off his shoe. Smith twisted his knee while trying to tug on his shoe." Or "Brewers catcher breaks hand in suitcase accident (2012) Milwaukee’s Jonathan Lucroy suffered a broken right hand after his wife accidentally caused a suitcase to fall on it in their hotel room. Lucroy had been trying to retrieve a lost sock." https://ftw.usatoday.com/gallery/most-bizarre-mlb-injuries Heck people have pulled their oblique muscle sneezing. These are just the bizarre baseball injuries. You are right that injuries can happen anywhere. People cannot be in bubble wrap their whole lives.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 11:06 am
I wouldn't use Jordy as the example here, since he supports the conclusion that the risk is not worth it, since he hurt his knee in a preseason game in 2015 and missed the entire season.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 01:08 pm
However, Jordy was untouched on the play in which he sustained his season-ending injury.
It was a freak accident.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 01:25 pm
There's a sweet spot between recklessness and timidity.
It's a continual challenge of life to find it for ourselves and others we care for.
Quivering and shivering in the trenches has its own risks of dullness, dissension, disease, and discouragement.
At some point, it's preferrable to make a charge.
TxFred
August 07, 2023 at 06:52 am
Understand the need, this to use pre-season for extra looks & opportunity for players to win a starting spot, even make the 53. But, that means a longer season for everyone. End of the season, and making a push for a play-off chance, the team could be out of gas or nagging injuries catching up. But, it is a chance that has to be made. Really find the strength & endurance of this team. Just how hungry they really have become. True character of the squad.
dblbogey
August 07, 2023 at 07:16 am
"but it becomes clearer with every practice that the team has to find a spot for second year man Zach Tom." It was clear to most of us by game 3 of last year when Royce Newman and Jake Hanson were getting repeatedly destroyed while Tom and Yosh sat on the bench. Tom is already our 3rd best lineman. If Myers continues to disappoint, Tom will be our center, otherwise Tom will be our right tackle.
Leatherhead
August 07, 2023 at 10:14 am
I want to ask a question.
"" If Myers continues to disappoint,"""
I want to know who he's disappointing. His teammates? The coaches? Murphy and/or Gutekunst? Because I haven't read any of that, anywhere. He's not disappointing me.
You can show me that he's significantly impoverished by some subjective statistical analysis, but I actually watch these games, and rewatch them. Myers is doing a pretty good job for us. Maybe that's why the coaching staff, which is smarter about stuff than I am, always starts him at Center when he's healthy enough to play (he did play more snaps for us than anybody last year).
He's our Center. Tom is our RT. Bakthiari and Nijman will play LT. Jenkins is our LG, and Runyan in our RG. I can absolutely, positively, certify that one of these spots will be "the weakest link". And if you improve that, then you'll have another weakest link. And then somebody will get hurt, and you'll have another weakest link.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 11:10 am
People tend to be overly harsh on Myers, IMO, because they wanted Gutey to draft Creed Humphrey, who is playing lights out. Myers has had some injuries, and they are clearly trying to push him to play better and with more consistency. If there is someone with more skill and consistency they will sit Myers and play somebody else, even if that means Tom at Center and Yosh at RT.
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 04:09 pm
I think there is a difference between trashing Myers and saying he’s not performed at the level hoped for from any C picked where he was. Humphrey is not a factor in that statement. What I think a lot of people want is two pronged:
1) not to just go with an incumbent who hasn’t been a plus or is currently struggling because he’s not truly awful. Lowry being a case in point. Good enough to be on the roster but not a plus player and an obstacle to getting better as long as he was pencilled in as a starter.
2) if players are borderline, then challenge them and see if we have better options. The goal is the best 5 available. If competition stirs improvement then we win, whether that’s a replacement or the incumbent making a jump.
Myers hasn’t been great. Let’s not pretend he has. That pretense does invite disagreement. He’s played at a level we should be seeking to surpass and has not showed well in camp. The team must not just settle for that. It appears the team is not: good, let him prove he’s the best answer we have not just be gifted a starting role by default or coaching inertia.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 08, 2023 at 02:44 am
Perhaps, though it is nothing to the visceral hatred some display towards Aaron Rodgers.
Myers started because when they drafted a center high the team needed a plug and play center. The alternatives were Jake Hanson and Lucas Patrick, and Patrick was not far behind Myers in terms of productivity.'
The Packers presumably will become a bit more of a running team. Myers' strength is not run blocking. Runyan is not a good run blocker. Nijman looks for work but he isn't a good run blocker. And it was time to move on from Marcedes, who was still an effective blocker, though I thought he had lost a bit of his excellence as a blocker in 2022. It is a lot to ask of young TEs to replace Lewis' blocking. If the Packers really do increase their percentage of run plays, the weaknesses of the right side of the line will be accentuated, unless those players improve.
So far, Myers has been a low-end starting OC. No need to sugar coat it. He is maddening inconsistent. He certainly has quality plays, but he has screw ups and just gets blown up sometimes. Hanson is terrible. He has been cut and resigned to the PS and the 53 a couple of times. It remains to be seen how Tom is as a center, as he has gotten snaps with the #3s and only a handful with the ones.
Coldworld
August 08, 2023 at 11:54 pm
Nijman is an excellent run blocker.
T7Steve
August 07, 2023 at 11:22 am
Doesn't it seem like every time someone is being described as being "blown up" in one on ones or 1sts against 1sts it's his name coming up the most?
Leatherhead
August 07, 2023 at 11:45 am
Is this guy going against Clark, Wyatt, and Slaton? Is he supposed to win every play? In training camp?
Bitternotsour
August 07, 2023 at 12:23 pm
he sucks, cut him
- idiot fans (always)
The guy is an NFL starter on a really good offensive line (when all the pieces are assembled and healthy). Like you, I just don't get it. Come game one, I would be shocked, outright shocked if he is not the starting center.
Every year there's a whipping boy, in recent memory, there was special teams savant and backup corner Jarret Bush, making that incredible pick to save our super bowl bacon. Amari Rodgers, run out of town by fans and thrown under a bus by Aaron Rodgers (so he could keep his pal Randall Cobb relevant, and on the roster). I thought for a minute it might be Quay Walker who got himself a couple of passion driven penalties and is well, black. But no, we appear to have settled on Josh Myers.
I wonder if other fan bases hate players on their own teams as much as Packers fans do?
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 04:21 pm
It’s not just those guys but others, it’s his tendency to go backwards or leave gaps and the number of times he’s been put on his butt. If that doesn’t concern you, it should. There’s no point in wishing it otherwise. We have to be better at C than he was last year and had been in camp. He may or may not be the solution , but just doing nothing and hoping is foolish. We need to get better. Will that be because he steps up or because he’s outplayed? Let’s find out. Either way, I see no way that competition hurts the team or restricts his growth as a player.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Leatherhead, I think you provide a good counterview about Myers, and let's hope your version is the most accurate for the sake of Myers and the rest of the Packers.
These young players have their ups and downs, and it's important to not get too high or low about them.
As fans, we have to depend a lot on the coaches to mostly get it right in sorting it all out as to who plays and who doesn't, for the present and future.
However, that doesn't mean the observations of fans are irrelevant. The view of the fans from farther away is a perspective that is unique and also important for consideration.
CheesedDeadHead
August 07, 2023 at 01:44 pm
"I want to know who he's disappointing. His teammates? The coaches? Murphy and/or Gutekunst? Because I haven't read any of that, anywhere. "
Yeah, because players and coaches often trash their teammates and players in public all the time! About as harsh of a criticism you are going to get is MLF saying they need "more consistency" from the position and then by action where Tom started to take significant snaps at C with the #1s.
Leatherhead
August 07, 2023 at 02:20 pm
You’re right. To read a real good trashing, you’ll need to find a know-it all “fan”.
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 04:30 pm
Yes you have in LaFleur speak: we need “a level of play that is consistent and up to a standard that we have for that position.”
…
"Josh has done a really good job, but we need more consistency and got complete confidence that he's fully capable of doing that and we've seen that from him. But it's just like every other position that we have. We need to pull out the best of everybody and so when you have capable people it naturally creates some level of competition and ultimately that makes us a better football team when we have guys pushing to compete for starting jobs."
Leatherhead
August 07, 2023 at 05:51 pm
“Josh has done a really good job for us. “
I don’t need a translator for that. He’s the starting center on an above average line and his coach says he’s done a good job.
So , continue to blither about how knowledgeable you are about offensive line play and disparage a guy who doesn’t deserve it.
TarynsEyes
August 07, 2023 at 07:58 pm
"So, continue to blither about how knowledgeable you are"...
Says the guy in your mirror.
Leatherhead
August 08, 2023 at 10:44 am
I'm not as knowledgable as the guys who are saying that Josh Myers is doing a good job, so I just kind of go along with what they say.
Six chickenshit downvotes without one word of explanation. About par for the course.
PackEyedOptimist
August 07, 2023 at 07:27 am
On a related topic: This roster (in my current opinion, which may change during the preseason!) has NO player whose loss would be a death-knell for this team.
I've NEVER felt that way about a GB roster.
For example:
I think Clifford and McGough are good enough to win NFL games.
I think Wyatt and Slaton, with Brooks, can be as good or better than last year's DL.
WE now have MULTIPLE deep threats.
I think Valentine and McDuffie are both good enough to win with.
DoubleJ
August 07, 2023 at 08:22 am
"I think Wyatt and Slaton, with Brooks, can be as good or better than last year's DL."
That isn't a very high bar to cross as the DL last year was quite bad. That would be like saying I think the 2009 Lions can be as good or better than the 2008, 0-16 team, Lions.
PackEyedOptimist
August 07, 2023 at 08:27 am
My point was that WITHOUT KENNY CLARK the line would still not be a disaster.
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 08:51 am
Point well taken PEO, and it’s actually my biggest takeaway as we enter preseason action.
That FN scrimmage was not only fun, but informative. And, that’s with our players on both sides being careful not to light up a teammate.
The Packers have quality depth everywhere but Safety. OL & DL appear stacked. LB too. CB? We’re rich. WR is young, as is TE, but loaded with size/speed like I’ve yet to see in GB. RB? Deep. QB, young but deep.
The only OL who make me wince are Hanson & Myers. Savage & Ford v. run make me wince. And, it looks like we’ve got a gamer in Carlson.
On the whole we’re looking solid… to this point. We’re going to see the really good stuff now.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 11:16 am
Wow you think some later round rookies can play as well as a 2x Pro-Bowler? I get that Clark didn't play to his talent or his contract last year, but this year with him not having to play the nose, I think he'll be unleashed and he's got something to prove. I mean we haven't even seen any of these guys play regular snaps against an opponent, other than Clark. So that's really a great optimistic statement, but it's not based on any evidence of any kind. We have no idea how these rookies and newly appointed starters will do week after week against NFL starting offensive lines. The rookies have played mostly against 2nd and 3rd stringers and not even in a game yet.
HarryHodag
August 07, 2023 at 11:09 am
Preseason game against Cincy. Love rolls right, is chased by a neanderthal from Cincy who falls on his leg and breaks it.
Now you have a backup who has never taken an NFL snap or a USFL player who didn't make an NFL roster to run the team for the year.
Still feel optimistic?
Bitternotsour
August 07, 2023 at 01:00 pm
I feel more optimistic than having a loser like Teddy Bridgewater shot putting 10 yard out routes, and taking snaps from a talented rookie. I take my lumps with the rookies and draft high next year. I'd rather finish 2- 15 with a rookie than 5-12 with a vet.
stockholder
August 07, 2023 at 01:41 pm
Interesting take-
The vikings had great talent.
The problem always was the QB.
Bitternotsour
August 07, 2023 at 03:31 pm
Damn, I always thought the problem was the purple uniforms. Or the culture of losing. You know, the Vikings have always been losers and will continue to be losers because well, they're the Vikings. Quarterback, no quarterback. They could get Mahomes and they'd still be losers.
Sorry, those are the facts. Past performance in this case is guaranteed future returns.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 01:51 pm
Harry, couldn't that scenario just as well occur in a joint practice?
I don't know how joint practices are safer than preseason games.
Actually, the preseason games -- being more formal and familiar -- would seem to be safer. The boundaries for players are more defined.
***
What seems nuts to me is joint practices with a team just before playing them in a preseason game.
By now, the Packers are getting familiar with their teammates in practices; but the players on the Bengals are unknown and unpredictable as far as their tendencies and temperaments when mixing it up.
***
I could be wrong about this, as about so many other things -- but the joint practices bother me quite a lot, while I like the idea of playing our starters in preseason games for about a quarter.
It would be interesting to get the viewpoints of veteran players, if they were somehow given the opportunity to speak openly.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 08, 2023 at 03:13 am
Losing Clark would be bad.
Losing Campbell would be bad.
Losing Jaire would be bad.
Losing Aaron Jones would be very bad.
Losing Watson would be very bad.
Losing Love would be very bad.
Death knell vs. bad is semantics. Bad to me means the team likely loses one more game without said player over the course of the season. Very bad means losing more than one extra game.
Campbell was something I debated. Has Quay blossomed? I don't know yet. McDuffie is capable but has limitations Campbell doesn't have. [Campbell is a guy fans are down on since he wasn't all-pro last year, but after he returned from his knee injury he was a quality starter. The defense (without Gary) gave up 17.6 points per game when he returned from injury.
greengold
August 08, 2023 at 11:57 am
I agree with you, and I think everyone else would too, that losing any one of those players would be "VERY BAD."
If I read PEO's comments correctly, an injury to one player on today's Packer team is not an automatic "SEASON OVER!" we've come to know in the past. That I do agree with, even without knowing how long we're talking about.
Love? Yeah. That would be very very very very very very very bad. LOL.
Personally, I do think this was a more generalized statement on the overall team depth we might be seeing develop before our eyes. None of us knows for certain until that rubber meets the road, but... I can already hear that AGNFB!!! That smell of burnt rubber for miles...!
beerandbrats
August 07, 2023 at 07:42 am
Good article Ken! I'm with you because this is a new team with Jordan Love at QB. I believe that preseason games are important because it is a team sport and this group of individuals needs to learn to play together as a team. I understand the need to keep people healthy but you have to play together as a team to get better as a team.
If fans are in attendance and we are keeping score, then we should be playing to win. The games might not count but mentally, a win is a win and winning is contagious!
RCPackerFan
August 07, 2023 at 07:42 am
I'm an odd person who has always enjoyed preseason games. Yes they don't "count" in terms of playoff seeding or anything like that. But this is where the young players get their feet wet and is all about the young players. I have always viewed the preseason as a look into the future.
This year will likely be a bit different because several of our penciled in starters or key role players are very young. We have 24 drafted players from last year and this year. That doesn't included all the UDFA's from last year and this year. We have roughly 56 1st and 2nd year players currently on the roster.
These preseason games will be very important to this team and the start of the season.
PackEyedOptimist
August 07, 2023 at 08:33 am
We've concurred on this before RC.
I enjoy getting to see the bottom of the roster play.
During regular games they just toil in the shadows.
It's hard to be optimistic for the future if you see no evidence.
RCPackerFan
August 07, 2023 at 09:20 am
Agreed!
Some of these players will be counted on this year. Some will be counted on in the future. But now is the time we get to see them.
I love seeing the rookies for the first time. Seeing who will contribute, and what potential they may have. And I also love seeing how the 2nd and 3rd year players progress. I love seeing the players that are taking a jump.
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 09:15 am
I am with you. I enjoy preseason games, but in a different way. The chance to see younger and roster bubble players in actual contested contact. The first and 4th quarters not so much, but this is a chance to see how the team and coaches respond to actual play. Last year not well. This year has to be better.
I think that Love needs time with his O skills positions. I think we need to test the interior OL in games and be willing to make changes if play justifies it. I’m fine if that’s brief for guys like Bakh and Jenkins, Jones and Dillon.
On D I want to see this DL verses the run. I want to see our DBs against an O that they don’t know what it’s doing and how well they coordinate. Once we’ve seen that, Jaire can sit, maybe Douglas. I want Van Ness let loose. I want to see Slaton with Clark, but then Wyatt with Slaton. Cox too. Let’s see who makes things happen. And then I want to see Savage/Ford/Owens/Moore play and play often. I want the safeties to earn their depth against players not holding back. That means a lot of snaps.
Outside of S, we are really talking about probably 2 half games for most of the starters. Probably less than that for the truly established. That’s not too different than the norm till the last 5 years. I imagine the 3rd game will be to sort out the depth/PS more heavily or to provide insight into unresolved groups.
I just hope we learn from what we see. No more Watkins is great, or ignoring the fact that Amari wasn’t. If non established players play well, play them and change depth charts. Give youth a chance when it earns it and be willing to adjust. The real test for LaFleur, Barry and Co has begun and the first results are coming.
So here’s looking to see a lot of RBs not named Jones or Dillon, WRs not named Doubs and Watson play with starters around them. These guys need time with Love and the ones and not against scrubs. Don’t be afraid of what they can do and don’t be afraid of bursting their bubbles. We need to know. If a third quarter guy really leaps. Don’t ignore it. Challenge him to repeat it against better opposition.
Let guys like Caleb Jones and Rhyan, Melton, Cox and E. Wilson show if they are really contenders or not and not just against scrubs. Be prepared to adjust accordingly now not wait for November or Gute making the decision for then by cutting (Nixon/Amari). I don’t give a hoot who you thought would be best, I do care who proves to be better/the better prospect.
Over to you LaFleur/Barry. Don’t be conservative in your approach: challenge guys to make plays even if the playbook will be vanilla, look to make plays to beat opponents not just to complete. Use preseason to the maximum effect: learn as much as you can in as near game conditions: challenge your presumptions. Do not aim for stasis or not looking bad. You won’t help yourself or the team if you do.
T7Steve
August 07, 2023 at 10:30 am
I think / hope they've learned their lesson about getting ready for the regular season.
How shocked were you with who they chose as the best 5 O-linemen for the first (several) game?
I know they were dealing with injuries to start with, but how do you think they came up with that line? Not practicing together?
I think it was (edit) you and LH had the line picked before the season started that they finally ended up using. I think none of us saw the problem with Myers.
RCPackerFan
August 07, 2023 at 10:32 am
I completely agree with you.
I agree with all of your points. I want to see those things as well. The 2 position groups I'm really going to be watching in this first game will be the WR/TE's and DL/Edge. I'm really wanting to see how the pass catchers look and how our defensive front looks.
Its something we don't always talk about, but coaches need to perform well as well. By that i mean there shouldn't be issues lining up, and whatnot. Getting calls in and communication needs to be clean.
splitpea1
August 07, 2023 at 11:10 am
"Getting calls in and communication needs to be clean." Yes, and that goes for the defensive secondary as well. The players need to be sure of their assignments and on the field, and the time to get all this straightened out starts now--not when the regular season begins. With a veteran secondary, there should be no confusion.
The only point I would disagree with in the article is the importance of winning in the preseason. Finding the right starting lineups, establishing the depth chart, and getting the fundamentals down should be the primary focus; the scoreboard really doesn't matter until Week 1, but in this case, making sure we can execute in the red zone would go a long way towards a productive preseason.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 09:15 am
As another odd person, I also enjoy preseason games.
I like seeing the starters tuning up their game for the start of the regular season as individuals and as units -- in perhaps a quarter or so of play.
(By the way, this would seem to make them less prone to injuries when the regular season begins in all of its chaos and fury.)
I like seeing the reserves coming in for the rest of the game to show their stuff and to battle for spots on the roster and practice squad, perhaps even forthcoming time on the field.
It's always intriguing to look for breakthrough players taking a step up from the past or flashing their skills for the first time.
***
It's good fun to be able to finally watch football games after some six months off offseason.
I'm excited for the preseason, and I would hope the players and coaches are excited.
This is the great game of football, after all -- a pastime to savor from this first preseason game against the Bengals until, many months from now, perhaps a Super Bowl of Packers vs. Bengals.
Preseason is also a time for dreaming, and that's fun, too.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 09:18 am
Now, about these joint practices -- for example, with the Bengals this week -- not so much, to put it mildly.
I guess this discussion can wait for another article, though . . .
RCPackerFan
August 07, 2023 at 10:51 am
With the joint practices I can see where it maybe is better to not play starters now. But there is something to be said for playing in front of big crowds with the team.
RCPackerFan
August 07, 2023 at 10:50 am
I also agree that it could be a very good time to tune up for the regular season. Just getting that live action against another team would be good for the starters.
I think the biggest thing is looking at preseason more for the individuals then the team itself. Seeing the individual players and their talents is a good thing. It seems every year a player we don't talk about during camp steps up and makes some big plays.
I'm definitely looking forward to the games.
Swisch
August 07, 2023 at 11:45 am
RC, I'd especially like to see the starting offensive line get in synch as a unit against the mostly vanilla defenses of the preseason, so that they're more ready to go against the swirling and crunchy defenses of the regular season.
That would seem to mitigate the risk of injury to everyone on offense in the first games of the regular season due to blown assignments by linemen, or just being slightly out of step with each other.
In the greatest of rivalry games in the NFL, the Bears figure to be ferocious in wanting to maul the Packers in our season opener.
We'd better be ready for a fierce battle for survival, before we can get to victory.
P.S. After the debacles of the Packers in the season openers of the past two seasons, the urgency is even greater even as simply a matter of respectability.
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 09:46 pm
Cut from the same cloth here, RC!
I’m just passionate about the Personnel side of the game. I watch every snap of every preseason game because I want to know how the players perform, how they compete, how the adjust to instruction/adversity and how they win a roster spot.
T7Steve
August 07, 2023 at 08:14 am
There are things that happen in games that can never be replicated in practice. Injuries happen in both.
Even in the days of two a day practices in camp, you don't get your legs till you play a whole game. Lately you see the players with their hands on their knees by the end of the third quarter. These guys are all in great shape and STILL need to play in the early season heat to get their legs.
I'm looking forward to the first game of the season, not being treated like a preseason game. It was bad enough when it was the Saints and the Queens. Now it's the Bears. It would be a real game even if it was exhibition.
Since'61
August 07, 2023 at 08:27 am
Over the years here at CHTV and previously at Jersey Al's ALLGBP I've made no secret of my disdain for preseason games. This year I feel no different. I would still prefer that teams play only 2 preseason games and have more practice time.
Preseason games are injury factories that diminish the league's product before the first game of the season is even played. I fully realize and appreciate that the coaches need some actual "game" time to evaluate where their younger players are. However, since they already know which 40-45 players will make their final 53 I don't see how a 3rd preseason game adds that much to their decision making. The preseason games remain a cash grab for the owners and the league. the players are not paid for playing in preseason games. Players in contract years do not want to see their chances for their next big contract diminished or ended in meaningless games.
As correctly pointed out by Ken coaches and FOs have hated preseason games for years because of the injury factor. Yes, it's true that NFL players just like any of us can be injured without going anywhere near a football field. So why exacerbate the risk of injury by exposing the players to more contact than necessary?
More controlled team versus team practices will do more to prepare the players for the upcoming season while mitigating injury risks.
The league should go down to two preseason games for the younger players and add at least one more if not two more of the team versus team practices.
The problem is that it means less money for the owners and the league and that the CBA probably would not allow more contact among the players.
So here we are with a system that no one really wants or needs. The only good preseason game is a game where there are no injuries to the players and specifically for me no injuries for the Packers because even an injury to a second or third string player can create a mess of the team's plans for the Special Teams. Thanks, Since '61
13TimeChamps
August 07, 2023 at 08:55 am
"So here we are with a system that no one really wants or needs."
Kind of like Thursday night games. Another cash grab with no regard for player safety.
Since'61
August 07, 2023 at 11:11 am
Exactly 13Times. And no regard for the fans either. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 10:05 am
Injuries happen. The good preseason game is one that leads to a better roster and better personnel usage. This is the chance for young players to show how they perform under pressure. It’s s chance to work out the kinks so we don’t look like we did in recent first games of the season when we didn’t learn from performance and adapt and we never seriously tested our starters or really tried to achieve.
If we do that again I think LaFleur is in trouble and our record will be worse than it should be. With that approach, arguably no preseason game is worth it. We went with what we’d predetermined we would really and never tested our units as such. We learned the hard way in season. It wasn’t fun, probably cost us a playoff shot and set the tone for a painful season.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 11:23 am
LaFleur won't be in trouble for starting slow, as long as they improve over the season. Other than last year when the starting QB had a broken thumb, LaFleur's teams have won 13 games. That is better than most teams in the league, excepting probably the Chiefs and Bills. That will keep you in the coaches seat, even if you start slow.
Last year was an outlier, with the injury to #12, the shuffling of the offensive line, very little experience at WR and really nothing to trust at TE (Tonyan was so clearly not his previous self). Even if they had made the playoffs, they weren't going far. It wasn't the lack of preseason play that hurt their playoff chances last year, it was a lot of other factors, including a seriously underperforming defense. But I wouldn't blame it on the preseason.
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 11:56 am
By “in trouble” I was intending to say that he’d have put us on the back foot behind where we should be to start the season. I agree it’s but one factor among many that will shape this season and how he is perceived by the end of it. Neither he nor this team needs to have unnecessary hurdles to overcome.
Since'61
August 07, 2023 at 11:46 am
Coldworld I agree that 2 preseason games can be beneficial for the younger players and for coaches to evaluate them but 3 games is overkill. One or two more team v, team practices would accomplish the same if not more as the third preseason game.
As for staring slowly or working out kinks the Packers went 13-3 for three consecutive seasons one of which did not include any preseason games and the other two the starters hardly played any snaps in their preseason games. So I don't think preseason playing time is a significant factor. It could be this year because this is a very young Packers team but they still need to take their lumps and learn how to play against full speed regular season opponents before they will come together at the NFL level.
I still believe that what the cost the Packers a playoff spot was the failure to start a healthy Love while Rodgers was struglling to play with a broken thumb. I believe that Love could have played well enough to defeat the Lions (1st game) and the Commanders. Those 2 wins put us in the playoffs at 10-7. But we'll never know. Not to mention that the Packers would be in a much better position to know what they have in Love for 2023. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 12:06 pm
I’m in favor of a “rookie” game as one of the 3. Perhaps with a QB and a limited number of exceptions for players not playing above a minimum snaps number for the team last year. First or last of the 3, I don’t care. That would be as interesting for me as any current game and help get young/inexperienced players the extra time they need.
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 10:37 am
Since'61, I've studied this up and down as best I could for years. Always felt the same as you here, until 2020.
"Damned if you do, damned if you don't." That's my takeaway.
1.
2020 provided a good benchmark with the elimination of the NFL Preseason, the first in decades. A study by the National Library of Medicine found injuries to players increased by 19% Week 1-4 of the regular season without preseason play. Conclusion was the injury rate increased significantly without preseason play.
***However, 3 years prior that were studied showed the injury -totals- Preseason + Weeks 1-4 from 2016 to 2019 were slightly higher overall. There's another study I found that confirms this.
What is left out of the equation is the NFL & the NFLPA failing to build a strategy together that limits injuries based on mitigating factors data accumulated. Also, there is no one particular playing field type standard for all 32 teams.
2.
Another study of 30 teams in the league 2012-2018 showed 14 teams played on grass, while 16 teams played on turf.
That study found players have a 28% higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries when playing on turf. Additionally up to 69% of foot and ankle injuries occur on turf as opposed to natural grass.
3.
Yet, another study found younger players are injured at a higher rate than older players. WHAT CAN WE DO THERE? These kids play full college seasons, train for Combines, train for the Pro game prior to being drafted, then hit minicamps, TC, preseason and the longest season they've ever played, a 17 game NFL schedule. It's no wonder younger players are injured more. They walk into the NFL over fatigued.
Maybe the greatest factor involved is a failure to provide & enforce an offseason regimen to lessen fatigue and deconditioning, which puts players at higher risk of injury, most of which occur Preseason - Week 4.
The International Olympic Committee identified absolute load, calendar congestion and psychological load to be closely associated with injury risk through a number of mechanisms. Excessive training that exceeds the body's load bearing capacity causes micro trauma to tendons, muscles, bones and is the leading cause of overuse injuries.
Anyone think rookie players suffer "Calendar Congestion?" LOL. Never heard of it... but, I get it!
Collectively modifying both offseason & TC/preseason activities to reduce fatigue, and increase/maintain overall conditioning would be best for both the NFL and the players.
Injuries are going to occur in football. Coaches have to train their players to play a full season. Preseason games are a part of evaluating player readiness and ability.
The big question is will the NFL establish smart guidelines/standards for all teams, their players and the surfaces on which they are required to play in order to significantly reduce player injury?
The NFL now has Guardian Caps to reduce TBI. Why not offseason training programs to reduce deconditioning and uniform playing surface requirements to better insure player safety, reduce soft tissue/bone injuries and improve their overall product?
We all want our retired players to be able to walk, run and enjoy a full & active lifestyle beyond football. Any positive steps the NFL and the NFLPA can take together to improve these issues would at least help.
Since'61
August 07, 2023 at 11:31 am
gg this is a great post and most of it I agree with.
First every game should be played on a real grass field. This alone would mitigate many injuries as the studies and your post correctly point out. However, I doubt that the owners will ever go for that because that reduces the multi-purpose capabilities of their stadiums which are built for a football game today and a concert tomorrow and a different sport the next day, etc. It's all about the $$$$$.
Next, focus of improving equipment to reduce injuries. The league has claimed to be focused on player safety for at least the last 2 decades and in spite of that nothing major has been done in terms of better/safer equipment for the players. In fact with the added travel schedules of playing on TNF and traveling to Europe the demands of the schedule has become an issue for player safety in addition to the surface and their equipment.
Third, as you correctly point out the NFLPA and the league need to work together to improve the issues which affect player safety. It only makes sense for both parties.
Playing surface, equipment and schedule demands need to be addressed. Rule changes concerning late hits and unnecessary roughness need to be tightened as well. Yardage penalties and player fines are not enough. Longer unpaid suspensions need to be implemented to get the seriousness of the message about illegal hits through to the players.
No doubt that even with these steps injuries will still occur in football. But they can be reduced and the risks of serious injuries can be mitigated. The problem is that I don't even see the league trying to protect their product on the field. This shows a lack of regard for their players and their fans who are paying their good money to attend the games only to watch a game without 2,3 or more of their teams best players available to play. It's unnecessary and it's driven by greed. It's a major reason why I'm down to only watching Packer games and why I enjoy the games less and less. Don't even get me started on the officiating which gets worse week to week and game by game. Thanks, Since '61
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 12:10 pm
Funny, we agree with so much on this. The NFL Owners are mostly to blame for the current state of THEIR business. They may not have a product if they keep this up.
The NFLPA would need to agree and comply with an offseason fitness regimen that can be monitored to reduce fatigue and decrease muscle loss realized through lack of training.
Part of the onus in protecting players from injury is on the players.
Part of the onus in protecting players from injury is on the owners.
Both sides want to do less and get more. Fantasyland. Driven by greed is a thing. A real, committed sharing of the burden between both sides is required to properly address the injury problem.
Both sides would benefit greatly.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 11:52 am
I do think there is something to the way guys waiting for the draft prepare for the combine, etc. And the way players train for the NFL must be vastly different. I think in college, players can get away with raw talent, if they are draft worthy. But in the NFL everyone is as good or better and they have to learn how to take care of their bodies. You so often see 2nd year players come back with less bad weight and more good weight, and an improved diet. It's a normal jump from college life to working life; you have to take better care of yourself because the demands (and the stakes) are much higher. And once in the NFL they have trainers, older players, and maybe nutritionists to help guide them. If they are serious, they learn from these folks.
The development of the metrics they started using a few years back has helped; the instruments measure hydration, heart rate, temps, etc and can really help coaches measure more accurately the appropriate stress loads on players bodies.
greengold
August 07, 2023 at 07:41 pm
Since ‘61,
Imagine a world where newly drafted players and UDFA signings are withheld from placement on 53 man rosters until Year 2…
Weeks lost to injury (per Football Outsiders 2017 study) by years of experience:
Rookie: 16,637
2nd year: 2,795
3rd year: 1,855
4th year: 1,183
5th year: 890
Rookies miss 6 times more weeks to injury than Year 2 players. That’s stunning.
Withholding rookie players from taking the field would not only decrease many of the factors that lead to an abnormally high injury rate, but it would allow teams to develop players under safer conditions, protecting their investments. Maybe contracts could also be adjusted to make their 1st developmental year a lesser cost, while adding a year of team control to the back end of rookie deals. Advantages for players would be a longer career opportunity, a longer rookie deal which might escalate in play to compensate for a reduced $ figure Year 1.
Why are we constantly seeing rookies struggle under higher stress environments, many clearly not ready to take the field?
Because it’s always been done that way?
Thegreatreynoldo
August 08, 2023 at 04:23 am
Those are stunningly asymmetrical results, so skewed that I found the FO article (linked below) to see if there are explanations.
A close reading revealed that the x axis is not years of experience but week during the season when a new injury transpired that resulted in lost time. Those lost weeks ARE the number of regular season lost weeks. So:
0: 16,637 players missed no time during a season (61%)
1: 2,795 players missed just one week of time.
2: 1,855 players missed 2 weeks/games.
3: 1,183 players missed 3 weeks.
4: 890 players missed 4 weeks.
5: 568 players missed 5 weeks.
12: 163 players missed 12 weeks.
16: 741 players missed the entire season.
Total is 27,139 weeks missed. 16,637 divided by 27,139 is 61%, meaning that 61% of players missed no games during the seasons (though they may and probably did appear on an injury report during the week).
What I don't know and didn't find an note in the methodology is whether injuries sustained in TC that resulted in lost time during the regular season counted. [A surprising (to me) data point in part II of the series (not linked) is that the injury risk does not increase as the season progresses. The new injury rate that results in lost time is the same in week 2 and week 17.]
So, if a player is injured in training camp and gets an injury settlement worth 1 to 4 weeks of regular season pay, is that counted? If a player is put on IR and can't pass a physical until week 10, do those 10 weeks count? If a player comes to camp and is placed on PUP or NFI and subsequently misses time during the regular season due to those injuries, does that count? It seems clear that a player put on IR who misses the entire season counts, otherwise the number for players who missed 17 weeks would be zero, but instead it is 741.
This would explain why week 1's adjusted injury rate is almost 14% while every other week (2 - 17) is between 7.0 and 7.9%. There is some evidence that overall stress is a factor, and college, plus the combine/pro day, is stressful.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/nfl-injuries-part-i...
Thegreatreynoldo
August 08, 2023 at 04:38 am
The data is for injuries between 2000 and 2014, or 15 seasons. So, about 49.4 players per year missed the entire year, roughly 1.5 per team.
Here is the link to Part II, though you will have to put it in manually.
footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/nfl-injuries-part-ii-variation-over-time
greengold
August 08, 2023 at 06:07 am
I’m glad you found that, TGR! I thought that figure was bananas myself. Pulled that from a Total Packers article from years back.
This makes more sense.
Ferrari-Driver
August 07, 2023 at 09:00 am
Ken, thanks for that article which brought back old memories as a kid.
Here is your quote: "The players needed them to play themselves back into condition. Most of them didn’t make enough money to last through the calendar year, so they had to take offseason jobs to make ends meet. They were too busy working to stay in shape."
As a very young kid, an old time Packer player who likely few, if anyone, here will remember named John Martinkovic, was a defensive end for the Packer a great many years ago. In the summer, he worked as a used car salesman we used to go over to the car lot with our little football and he would throw it back and forth with us. Now that is something that we won't see nowadays and it made an indelible memory for a bunch of little kids.
JQ
August 07, 2023 at 10:42 am
F-D,
Thanks for the awesome post! I don't remember Martinkovic; his Packer career ended when I was 2 years old!
But I am old enough to remember when Packer "exhibition games" were entertaining and exciting to listen to on my transister radio. They were televised locally the next day, generally Sundays.
Shout out as well to Ken, for the little time capsule account of pre-season history. Thank you Both! -JQ
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 12:10 pm
Great story! I hadn't heard of John Martinkovic either; he was traded the year I was born. But he must have been a great player; he's in the Packer Hall of Fame!
Packers0808
August 07, 2023 at 09:23 am
I would rather see 3 pre season games ANY time before ANY Thursday Night game. Players need those additional days during the regular season for rest and healing of Sunday ordeals. Like someone said just a NFL money grab and disregard the players!
Coldworld
August 07, 2023 at 10:14 am
Flex Thursday games is a complete money grab. The lack of a second bye is definitely more of a risk to player health and quality of play than preseason in my opinion. For a start, most in season snaps come from payers who don’t play heavily in preseason but also because wear and fatigue are both significant multipliers if injury risk and tend to lower performance even without that. Rested players play better and stay healthier. That leads to a better product.
jont
August 07, 2023 at 02:39 pm
"Flex Thursday games is a complete money grab."
And will blow up in their faces if they flex one.
Fans who get screwed over on travel deposits, et al, will be all over social media and the news-- a black eye big enough to obscure the quality of the game itself. And there is absolutley no way of knowing in advance if a game will a yawner-- every thursday game last year looked good on paper.
Blinded by greed and buffaloed by Bezos.
packerfanroy
August 08, 2023 at 03:34 am
SMASH THAT THUMBS UP
NO MORE THURSDAY NIGHT GAMES
packer132
August 07, 2023 at 10:00 am
The starters need to play in preseason games, period. It could be a quarter or two, but they need reps against opponents. In 2021 the team got blown out 38-3 in week #1 against the Saints as Matt didn't have the starters playing in the preseason. Last year the Vikings won 23-7 in game one, and Green Bay limped to a 3-3 start. You only get so much practicing against your teammates. Injuries will happen and you can't play to not get hurt. This year is more important than others with a new QB, new receivers, tight ends, and more. Lets see the Packers open it up against the Bears and start off the season with a solid win.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 07, 2023 at 12:14 pm
In 2021 they only lost 3 games the rest of the season, so how much did it matter that they started slow against the Vikes? They won 8 of the next 10 games. I can't really argue against that.
jont
August 07, 2023 at 02:50 pm
Yes, pack132.
👍
When Ken counts "at least eight starters on offense and defense that can’t be sure of their positions heading into Friday night," I am more than a little concerned.
We all love the confidence an established roster gives and we all see that this year's roster is not that.
It's fun for serious fans to discuss who the starting center should be, but in real life it would be good to have a solid #1 using a few series to get into regular season form for week one.
cheesehead1
August 07, 2023 at 10:18 am
I know injuries are always a concern, but IMO Love needs to play alot along with his young WR. I realize he’s been here since 2020 but his game experience is very limited. Even though it’s only preseason, let’s see what he has. GPG.
TarynsEyes
August 07, 2023 at 10:26 am
You're only as strong as your weakest link, and this year, the Packers have too many players that can be the weakest link, so sorting out the best of them is paramount, especially since many are 1st and second year guys. The amount of knowledge needed for these guys alone, no matter how much you 'hope' in the belief you know, you don't. Love is penciled in as the starter by default, but honestly, he may need the preseason snaps most of all because he might be the biggest weakest link.
I don't trust what comes out of camp media and the mouths of biased Packer pundits. Preseason games are still hard to garner what's real with so many unknowns playing, but it certainly gives better insight, and often dispels what has been gleamed from the biased reporting.
Play the starters for a quarter every game, even if against subs of the other team. At least you'll know what you have against their weakest links.
T7Steve
August 07, 2023 at 10:43 am
Your "weakest link" analogy is well placed and thought out.
It might also show up in the coaching department. Can they make the adjustments to get the best players out there?
TarynsEyes
August 07, 2023 at 11:05 am
Yes, it's said that the schemes are vanilla, though sometimes vanilla looks to be all they can muster.
Leatherhead
August 07, 2023 at 12:48 pm
Love is not "pencilled in" as starter "by default"/ This was written in ink quite a while ago. He's the guy the Packers wanted to be the starting QB this year.
TarynsEyes
August 07, 2023 at 01:07 pm
Ink leaves you no out, so you best 'hope' that Love earns the extension you're already signing him to. At this time, pencil is the best option.
What the FO wanted doesn't always equate to what they get. There is no way the FO is happy with what they've gotten or seen to date, be real, Love has a lot to prove before that dream thinking becomes a reality.
I want it to succeed like others, I just can't buy a train ticket that is already punched on a track still a bit cluttered with doubt.
Also, the redoing of his contract instead of picking up the 5th year option gave them an out in year 5 if year 4 is a total collapse, but can afford a year 5 redo without serious SC hit, which means his position as the starter is written in pencil.
LambeauPlain
August 07, 2023 at 10:42 am
For a game that requires effective blocking and tackling to win, MLF does not seem particularly interested in practicing both skills. 90% + of training camp is "thump" tackling and blocking. Under MLF, the "thumper" approach seems bleed over into the first few games of the season and slow starts. The Packers have never been branded as being a "physical" team under MLF.
Mental and muscle memory needs constant practice to sharpen physical skills. Steel sharpens steel. Preseason games are about the only time the Packers under MLF do this in earnest...and then mostly with backups who won't be playing in games that count.
I am not advocating daily TC nutcracker drills...but go live at least a few times a week. I also believe injuries are more likely when you are not ready for opponents who are ready to block and tackle full speed.
GregC
August 07, 2023 at 11:58 am
This is clearly a different kind of year for the offense, but not for the defense. The one safety position appears to be up for grabs, but that's about it. There is a rotation at OLB, so it's not that big a deal who is starting opposite Preston Smith until Rashan Gary returns. So I don't expect the coaches to play the preseason much different than usual for the defense.
On offense, Jordan Love needs some work with the other young players--at least a couple of drives per game, I think, and maybe as much as a full half. On the other hand, I don't expect to see David Bakhtiari, Elgton Jenkins, Aaron Jones, or A.J. Dillon on the field at all during preseason. And that's fine with me.
On special teams, the kicker is going to kick as always. It would be good to see the two punters taking turns punting and holding for field goals. They can try out some different returners, but there's no need to put Kesean Nixon out there. We already know what he can do.
fireball
August 07, 2023 at 12:43 pm
I remember reading that at least in the first pre-season of training and exercising under the new Packer head coach, Lombardi, there were players, veterans for the most part, who threw up during exercise periods. They were not use to being pushed that hard. " Fatigue makes cowards of us all, " Lombardi would tell the players, as he made them run back and forth from end zone to end zone, or made them run in place for a minute or two, then drop to the ground, then back up, then down, then up, endlessly. If you're not in excellent physical condition, Lombardi would tell the players, you will begin to tire in the third and fourth quarters of a game. You'll begin to let up, back off. You'll be winded. Your legs will feel weak. . .
Yeh, Love has to play at least a couple of quarters each pre-season game. . . along with most, if not all, of the starting offensive players.
packerfanroy
August 08, 2023 at 03:31 am
Pre-season games dont matter. The reason they dont matter is because they are not really games, they are more like glorified joint-practices with a heavily doctored "game" structure.
First, understand that the new CBA resulted in less practice/training camp time to evaluate players and that pre-season 'games' offer an opportunity to alleviate that.
Second, everything is vanilla. Every team is running the most basic aspects of their scheme in order to not give their real opponents free scouting information for nothing in return.
Third, knowing the preceding points, head coaches will often co-ordinate with their counter part in order to maximize not just the amount of information but also the type of information that a coaching staff can use in order to self scout and evaluate. An example of the third point would be coach A calling coach b and saying "Can your team run some basic man coverage beaters in the 2nd quarter?" The coaches may even ask their counter- part to NOT run some types of plays (Coaches may have a schematic wrinkle that they are planning on using to counter/beat that particular play(s) and would not want to 1. give that wrinkle away in pre-season 2. Have his players play/counter that concept in a way that he is not teaching them in training camp).
Of course the NFL and the teams wont admit this cause it allows them to snatch up that advertising/gate/concession/parking $$$ faster than Monty Burns swiping a would-be bribe in a Kwik-E-Mart. And no the fact that the money involved isnt that much, in the grand scheme of NFL profits, mean that the teams and the league arent still gonna want it.
You can't say that pre-season games are run in a manner to prevent other coaches from gleaning too much and then turn around and say that the fans can find a lot of important info about the team and players from the same games. Say it with me now.... Glorified Joint Practice.....
But hey, Ill be damned if Im gonna complain or rip on anybody for enjoying the preseason games or even using them to learn about some of the players. Hell, use the pre season to get yourself ready for the real deal also. Do some self scouting of your own....Case of beer in that fridge or a case of beer in that fridge??? Case of beer in both, maybe?? See where YOUR strengths and weaknesses are and maybe come up with a wrinkle or two and surprise your "opponents" (guests, pack fans watching the game with you) with an 'exotic look' of watching Packer games when they do matter.
greengold
August 08, 2023 at 12:05 pm
I love all of this, packerfanroy! Great stuff.
packerfanroy
August 08, 2023 at 04:57 pm
Thank you, cheers man.