"You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right
You may be wrong but you may be right."

Well said indeed.

Nick! Wait for it…

LOL.

Yeah, Nick. I expect Van Ness will take some time, similar to Gary. Gary didn't show up much as a rookie, but his second year...splash plays. Third year...dominating his foes. Lets hope the same for the rookie.

I don't see Van Ness playing on the DL much. He didn't do much there during his two years at IA.

But at Edge, Rebrovich has a load of talent to work with. Going to need some patience, though. He has that bull rush but not much more. NFL lineman quickly neutralize that. Needs some schooling....but he seems to be very smart and a good student.

Bahktiari seems to fancy himself as a comedian these days. Unfortunately his own team is the butt of all his jokes.

"He's got the Bull-Rush and well, the Bull-Rush."

Considering Van Ness' pass rush win rate was over 18% (McDonald and Murphy both more seasoned rushers only had win rates no higher than 15%) with only having like 1/2 the bull rush (he wasn't always able to disengage), it is even more fun to think of what he can do with some more coaching. I hope that Jerry Montgomery is able to bring out all the talent that Van Ness has.

A lot of fans are just plain stupid. So many were calling for Davante to be cut because he was an obvious bust...Antonio Freeman as well way back when. Guess if the rookie doesn't re-write all the NFL records immediately upon entering the league, they suck.

Here's the thing: most edge rushers cant just bullrush people. A variety of moves can be taught, but the raw strength and desire required to successfully bullrush a 315+ pound bohemoth just cannot be taught. You either have it or you dont. He'll learn the rest as he goes. His upside is Rashan Gary, possibly even better.

Luke Ness Monster can be great, I just hope all this talk about versatility across both lines doesn't cost us development and excellence at one position.

Agree. CMIII stacked plays immediately because of his short area quickness and multiple moves off the snap. And he could bend around the blocker on his way to the QB. Clay could also play effective pass pro. There were skills Matthews had as a rookie that kept him on the field.

Officially Van Ness' 10 yard split is 0.04 seconds faster than Matthews'. Clay did have more bend to his game with his speed rush, but the speed rush was most of his game as well. You often times didn't see Matthews trying to covert speed to power because his 240lbs wasn't going to be as effective against 300lbs OTs. Also Matthews was never more than an average run defender and always good for giving up contain on running plays as he shot off on the snap. Hopefully Van Ness can be a plus run defender.

Hes also like 30 pounds heavier than Mathews was coming into the league. The fact that his numbers are even comparable, let alone identicle to Mathews, speaks to how special of an athlete he really is.

At least at the combine, their 10 yard splits were the same (Van Ness was 1/100 if a second faster). That suggests Van Ness has a very similar burst over 5 yards, particularly given that Van Ness is longer legged, he may in fact be a faster twitch athlete.

The difference between Matthews and Gary/Van Ness is size and short area agility. Mathews had a better 3 cone, and change of direction. Ironically, despite that, he had a tendency to overshoot, so the actual difference is somewhat less probably.

And! I don’t think Clay had much in the way of other teammates presenting a threat. Lukas will have Preston right away and Rashan hopefully soon. (As well as anybody else who wants to join the fracas.)

Don't forget that Gary was also moved from being primarily interior DL in college to standup rusher in the NFL. That is a big change for a player. Also in college Gary was often times the major focus of opposing OL so it was hard for him to have an impact when he was double or triple teamed virtually every play.

I think they'll move Van Ness around the same way they move Gary around, trying to generate mismatches on the interior and asking opposing OL to adjust to where the rush is coming from. I think he's a flexible enough piece that they can do that, even early on.

Enagbare might slot ahead of him early on--especially on run downs--but Van Ness should overtake him quickly and should be at least as productive out of the gate. Gary makes this a really good unit...but there's potential there even without him.

Jason Taylor. That's what I'm thinking when I watch Van Ness. Yes, Taylor was much lighter, but there are definite similarities.

TJ not a Packer is almost as "happy" a memory NFCCG OT loss in Seattle.

I see a lot of similarities between Gary and Van Ness too. Measurables about the same. Gary stronger (29 bench vs 19 for LVN). Both were decorated B1G players on excellent defenses.

Gary played mostly as a 4-3 DE at MI, but did stand up some. After his rookie year with Coach Smith, standing up in the 3-4, he took off.

Van Ness was the reverse. Mostly standing up in a 3-4. He needs to add to his tool kit of pass rush moves, and after his rookie year, hopefully the same liftoff!

"My second thought: “I bet Gutekunst thought, ‘I’m not making that same mistake twice.’”"

It was Ted that passed on Watt for King not Gute. In fact I have read that Watt was never even on Ted's board.

This is exactly who my comparison WAS DOR HIM AS WELL.THIS WILL BE GOOD

That is what I think too, Guam.

Has the smarts to absorb NFL coaching and the work ethic add to his pass rush skills. He's a project but I think a short term project like Gary was.

I am looking forward Packer career.

The Packers didn't need to bring Gary along quickly with Z and P in place. I think Van Ness could be in line for a lot more snaps early on.

So far, it sounds like Gary will be on the early end of his recovery window, perhaps playing right away at Chicago week 1, but I think your second paragraph also fits with Packers bringing Gary along a little more slowly (PUP) and riding Van Ness and Enagbare out of the gate. Whichever the case, I think Gary will be on a pitch count for awhile, and Van Ness will get more snaps than Gary got in his rookie year.

Its not even like Gary wasnt good early on. He was stuck behind two highly paid vets who were playing well for super bowl contending teams. Had Gary been given more playing time, there would have been more production.

We have no idea how quickly LVN can learn what. There's been 1 day of OTA.

I recall, after Gary was drafted, Coach Smith was asked about his lack of college production vs his top ranking as a prospect. Smith said Gary played lights out based on what MI asked him to do...protect the flank. Smith was giddy with the selection of Gary.

I think Rebovich is very excited about his new student.

....but can he fight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=525PM43mrG8

Coachability and motor seem to be an underlying theme of this and last year's drafts.

He also has the necessary mean streak. When he played hockey in high school, he led the league in penalty minutes lmao.

"Depends on whose draft board you are looking at."

Agreed. It all depends on what your scheme and roles dictate for those players. This is why draftniks and their "one size fits all boards" aren't worth that much. As an example: I didn't think Nolan Smith would ever land in GB--unless he really fell--simply because he doesn't fit their "preferences". The Packers like length and "bulk" on the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if Van Ness drops a little weight from his Combine numbers to play the edge.

I'm so glad you said that, DoubleJ, because I think he was the top rated edge rusher at #13, along with being the top rated run stop in his entire edge class. That's what did it for me, plus his higher ceiling. The kid barely played, has all the physical gifts to be great, and just requires a couple years working on technique.

They'll throw him straight into the fire for some fast tracking of his development timetable. I have zero doubts on that.

Or ask him to do zone coverage on WRs.

Ugh dont give him any ideas

Only if they make race car noises before the snap.

LVN should do a little better than Rhyan did in their respective rookie years I would hope.

"What really made CM3 speed-wise was his phenomenal burst off the ball. His 1.49 second 10 yard split time"

I think this has since been updated in the RAS DB (used new tech to review timings for official times instead of the hand times) as it has Matthews' with a 1.61 and 4.67 instead.

"Gary and Van Ness's 10 yard splits were 1.63 and 1.64 respectively"

Actual 10 yard splits are 1.61 and 1.57 respectively.

Well yeah Gary came into the league at 278 pounds and Van Ness weighed 272 at the combine. The fact that their numbers were even comparable to a 245 pound Mathews is ridiculous.

I agree this season could be like 2008 and then the growth in 09 into 2010 in the next two seasons. Lots of young players with high upside and beginning in 2025 a lot of cap space.

I think Van Ness and Musgrave will play a lot more than people anticipate. I mention Van Ness above, but Musgrave is in a prime spot to mop up a lot of Tonyan's (54%) and Lazard's (79%) snaps. I agree that there will be competition for those--maybe from Reed and Deguara, primarily--but if they scheme to the things that Musgrave does well out of the gate, I think he could play a lot. The Packers haven't shied away from playing skill position rookies under LaF.

It certainly looks as if Kraft will get a lot of the Y-TE snaps, but my hope is that we'll see a re-engineering of the offense with the new personnel that only sort-of looks like what we saw the last couple years. Different players with different skill sets require a careful shift in what you do--hopefully LaF and Stenavich are up to that challenge.

You could say the same thing about most of their drafts. They rarely draft for right now. Even when they're filling a position of need, its not for that season. So its not like this draft is any different. Standard operating procedure.

"For everybody that decries our run defense, did we take Van Ness to help us against the run..."

Agreed. If you've got outside defenders who can challenge and hold the edge, you naturally funnel runners to where your help is (inside) and away from your weakest tacklers on the periphery (CBs). Seems like FB 101 to me.

BOTH. Lukas Van Ness was the #1 EDGE in RUN STOP.

We walked into a gem with LVN being available at #13. There were 7 teams ahead of us who needed DL/EDGE.

"For everybody that decries our run defense, did we take Van Ness to help us against the run, or was it more that he could help our pass defense?"

Considering he was a plus run defender in college I think he can help both phases.

1 bazillion percent, Ferrari-Driver!

I was stunned that we got him at #13. Didn't ever, ever think we'd have that opportunity. He was my top choice.

I don't even think the Packers thought LVN would be there at #13. He didn't make an Official Pre Draft Visit (Those who did: DE Karl Brooks, WR Dontayvion Wicks, RB Lew Nichols III, QB Sean Clifford, plus UDFAs OT Kadeem Telfort, TE Camren McDonald).

They did host EDGE players Will McDonald, Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Adetomiwa Adeboware & Keion White. Those are the players I felt GB could reasonably acquire somehow, either at #13 or in a trade down.

ANOTHER Pro Bowler..!!! This is gonna be fun!!!!

"But I would think our defensive coordinator would have studied every detail about Lukas before he ever set foot on the practice field. He shouldn't have been surprised in the least."

There is a difference between studying someone either on film or looking at their bio and seeing them in person.

Bragging rights at family gatherings could be amazing.

where ya from son?

Green Bay Wisconsin, Sir.

...Oh, Titletown, heard all about it.