Packer Priorities: Pass Rush vs. Cornerback

Conventional wisdom among Packers fans this offseason seems to yield one thing: pass rush is the most important spot to upgrade this offseason.  It could be.  In fact, it probably is.  That doesn't mean, though, that the Packers don't have potential on thier roster currently at that spot and it doesn't mean they coudln't look elsewhere in the first two rounds of this year's draft or to (gasp!) free agency for an answer.  There are other ways to accomplish what the Packers need to accomplish than just drafting the highest available pass rusher at 14.

Here are three counter arguments to drafting a pass rusher at 14:

The potential that Reggie Gilbert and Vince Biegel possess.

Vince Biegel, as far as EDGE expert Justis Mosqeda is concerned, was the Packers first round pick a season ago.  Biegel disappointed in his first season, certainly,  That's understandable though as the Wisconsin product missed most of traning camp and all of the preseason with an injury.  

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Ross Uglem is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @RossUglem 

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Comments (37)

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Cubbygold's picture

February 26, 2018 at 03:11 pm

Only concern there is that the secondary gets real young if the corners are King and Jackson, with HHCD being the veteran and potentially losing Burnett.

If winning the superbowl is the objective, I'm not sure a secondary that devoid of veteran leadership would be ideal.

Adding an experienced CB brings more leadership to the secondary, and drafting an EDGE brings more youth to the front 7. Not saying that's the right way to approach this, but GB does need a good mix of youth/leadership in each area.

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Bearmeat's picture

February 26, 2018 at 05:17 pm

Agreed. Our top 2 CBs are very young already, and the role players behind them are as raw as raw can be. We do need more front-line talent at CB, but it looks like there is a lot more solid starting CBs (or better) on the market this year. We just need production. The secondary could use another veteran.

Comparing that to pass rush: There are literally 2 pass rushers of note, and I doubt either gets to the market and even if they did, I don't think we could afford them. Plus, we need production AND youth at OLB. Biegel is a prospect and so is Gilbert. And that doesn't mean they will develop into anything resembling a solid starter. The rest are either hurt all the time and/or old.

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John Kirk's picture

February 26, 2018 at 05:50 pm

I'd like to know if we were in on Peters. Brian said we'd be in on everyone doing due diligence. Hope he gets asked at the combine if he ever explored that?

The Rams gave up a 4th rounder this year and a 2nd next year. A late in the 4th round pick and what figures to be a late in the round 2nd for a guy with that coverage ability? If we weren't in on that, we should've been. We have nothing at the position. King is not any type of fix based on what we saw, and besides him we have the ever erratic Damarious Randall. When you're that thin, how can you not consider a guy like Peters even though he tackles like a bullfighter?

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Bearmeat's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:44 pm

We don't know that King won't be good. It takes time to develop at CB. I will say that his rookie season was not great and his shoulder injury is very, very concerning.

And Randall has been inconsistent but he has also played very well at times. Yes, reinforcements are needed, but I wouldn't call the cupboard "bare."

I too wonder about the Peters situation. If we get Talib for a short term rental, that'd be fine for me - and he likely won't cost a draft pick.

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John Kirk's picture

February 27, 2018 at 08:12 am

Right...we don't know...if he's good or bad. My commentary was the counter to all those who unreasonably believe because he was a high pick, he'll be some kind of answer. He may be another wrong answer. Nobody knows. Yet, I saw NOTHING to believe he's got a bright future as a coverage guy with guys running vertically, so I can't ride the train that he's an answer.

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Richard Smith's picture

February 27, 2018 at 07:57 am

It's funny how people talk about picking up a player like Peters when they've never really paid attention to the Chiefs. He choked a coach in college, he got into a fight with a coach on the Chiefs. He threw a refs flag into the stands and came out without shoes on. Ok, is that the type of person you want on the Packers. Oh, and he's a FA after this year or next. I can't remember. But, a person like him will cause way more harm than good.

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John Kirk's picture

February 27, 2018 at 08:17 am

I'm aware of Marcus Peters issues. Can he cover people? Can he cover people infinitely better than anyone we have right now? Yes.

My bigger concern was him was his aversion to tackling... looked like Ha Ha in Detroit and worse. Deion Sanders made those types of "business decisions" but he could cover. Peters ain't Deion but he's a heckuva lot closer than any guy we have and he plays a position we desperately need.

The Rams know exactly what you know yet they traded for him. That was a trade that if it works out will really not be that big of a deal. 23rd pick in Round 4 and likely even later for the 2nd in 2019. That's a gamble I'm making especially considering our defense. Rams D is already very good and now they're even better, but we have our "standards" to keep us warm.

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John Kirk's picture

February 27, 2018 at 11:28 am

Just read a piece at profootballtalk.com that the Chiefs called every team in the league on Peters.

Hoping we hear whether we had any interest or if Brian went Ted and offered a 7th.

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Michael Grunewald's picture

February 26, 2018 at 05:59 pm

Losing Burnett is an absolute non-factor. He is totally one-dimensional, straight downhill... a liability in either coverage or pursuit. This back end has been awful since Woodson walked out the door, Burnett included. One part scheme, one part personnel. A scheme change won't impact Burnett's inability to take the proper angle.

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Richard Smith's picture

February 27, 2018 at 07:58 am

One dimensional. Your insane. He may not get the picks, but he can play in the box, he can play deep, he can line up against corners, TE's etc. He is the opposite of one dimensional.

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John Kirk's picture

February 27, 2018 at 08:19 am

...how good is he at all these various positions? There's playing them and then there's playing them well. Morgan is no difference maker in any sense of the word at any facet of the game. He's part of the problem not the solution.

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Turophile's picture

February 26, 2018 at 03:53 pm

Ross, my thinking is the opposite to yours.

The Packers need help at both positions (OLB and CB). The way to look at this is which position disappears fastest in the draft, pass rusher or CB ?

By the time round 2 rolls around for the Packers I'd guess pass rushers B.Chubb, Edmunds, Davenport, Key, Landry are all gone. Maybe Okoronkwo as well. Look (for example) at the Drafttek draft site, all those 6 guys are graded in the top 32 picks.

In those top 32 picks there are only 3 CBs ranked (Jackson, Ward, Oliver). Holton Hill is the only other CB ranked before the Packers pick at 45 (although I'd put Carlton Davis in his place and Hill later.

While CBs lack the numbers of top quality guys that were there last year, they do have depth this year, making it very likely OLB will be the better first pick.

In fact I'd probably go TE and WR before CB. That would leave the CB position light this year, but fortunately there are veteran players on the market, at CB. I'd take one of those for insurance.

I do think a CB should be drafted, but there are other positions of real need as well, too many to spend a high pick on each.

Something like Edge Landry, TE Goedert, WR Burnett could really help the Packers.

It is even possible the Packers could trade back a few spots and still get a comparable guy. Trading back in round one offers the best value - trade back 4 spots and the value (J.J. chart) is equal to pick #18 plus the 9th pick in round 3.

If you also trade the Packers (non-comp) 4th, 5th and maybe a comp 6th, you could get ANOTHER pick at the bottom of round 3. While you need a trade partner to do the dance, a first rounder (#18), second rounder (45) and three third rounders could fix a lot of holes with potentially quality players..

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John Kirk's picture

February 26, 2018 at 04:21 pm

Your thinking is sound, Turo.

As for Josh Jackson, how has he fared vs. guys expected to be top picks at WR? I've seen some here lobby for him based on how he played against Wisconsin, but who does Wisconsin have at WR who is a top flight draft prospect at WR?

I see he faced Lazard of ISU...that kid is ho hum athletically. I assume Jackson covered him? That was a 40 burger given up by Iowa in that one. Lazard reeled in two TD's, but only on 6 for 23.

Jackson is a one year wonder who doesn't appear to be an all world athlete. He scares me. That guy has a lot riding on the combine given his limited experience.

If anyone cares, here's Josh Jackson's signature game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8yoYtOLTe0

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stockholder's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:01 pm

And mine is opposite yours. First I don't see a CB in the first round @14. Why? I don't believe Jackson has the down field speed you need. Ward is better, but smaller. Compared to last years CBs. There is no shutdown guy. The CB position is a PROJECT! And I'd Keep House. The game is won in the trench. I believe thats the first pick. =Depth and Vea. The fastest Help possible! (Thats what we want. ) You will not get another shot at a premium lineman for years! Ok on to the edge. Davenport ,Key and Landry will be gone after we pick. We've seen guys with red Flaggs before. There is a reason their dropping! But if you really want a edge guy you trade back into the first to get one. And the costs maybe to much of a gamble. Doubtful! I still like OLBs that can drop back into coverage. Yes Edmunds and smith are perfect. But another possibility is Leonard. But can we afford not to draft a WR here? I would a WR in the 2nd. & 3rd. Over TE! The 4th is Safety/4.4 all the way. This and back-up CB/4.4 should be picked Here. So truthfully Take the impact player rd. 1. 2 WRS. 1 S. No TE here for me. I would do exactly what TT did with the RBs last year. Draft 3 of them later with the comps. OLs too. Thats 11 picks.

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John Kirk's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:47 pm

Mayock believes there are only 3 EDGE players who'll be productive 1st year players...

Chubb, Davenport and Key. If you want an EDGE player to have any impact, it's going to most likely come from 14. Chubb is no way. Key is a big gamble and so is Davenport but for different reasons.

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stockholder's picture

February 26, 2018 at 08:39 pm

Take Davenport. (Perry #2 ?.) Kiper maybe right.

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mamasboy's picture

February 26, 2018 at 04:08 pm

You're right cub. Very young. With HHCD continuing to play like a rookie , the whole backfield could be wondering what the hell's pulling off. Remember when he wore the helmet speaker for one game, and was relieved of his duty because he was CLUELESS as far as getting people lined up went. What a pretender.
We're going to find out if Kings shoulder is going to be a chronic thing throughout his career. If it is, we'll all be hating on Ted even more.

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Colin_C's picture

February 26, 2018 at 06:03 pm

Agree with swampthing69. Have to improve both. That said, I feel a bit better about the current long term situation at CB than EDGE. Randall is really coming on, and I think King will be markedly improved from last year. Assuming Randall doesn't regress, those two should be the secondary nucleus for the next several years.

For EDGE guys, it's much murkier. Matthews may still be decent, but he's not durable and is certainly on the back side of his career. Perry should be our #1 EDGE guy, he just needs to stay healthy. Fortunately he's avoided serious injury, so he shouldn't be slowed down at all. Still, it's hard to feel comfortable counting on him to play 16+ games (heck, even 12 seems tough some years). Maybe Biegel surprises us, but he was only good in college, not dominant. Hard to see him making that jump now. Fackrell and Gilbert should provide nice depth, but that's about all I see right now from them.

Looking at the draft, I think we need to try and build a stronger future at EDGE. I'd look at a high ceiling guy early. Davenport fits that bill, though I'm not sure how well he'd fit in a 3-4 scheme. Key also does, but I think he's too risky at #14 with his poor 2017 season. Landry might be our guy, though he's gonna need some time in the weight room. I see him as a guy who will be way better in year 2. My favorite guy now though is Rashaan Evans. Everyone loves Smith and Edmunds, but I think Evans will be the best of the three. He's a do it all LB with great speed and blitzing ability. With only one year of previous staring experience, he put up 74 tackles, 13 TFL's, and 6 sacks in 2017. As John Kirk knows, Anthony Miller's my draft crush on offense, but Evans is my favorite defensive guy.

For CB's in the draft, I really like Denzel Ward, but he's undersized for CB's that Pettine likes. Plus, once teams see his 40 time (I expect him to beat Ross), he'll probably go top 10. The only other CB I'd consider at 14 is Jackson. First time I saw his film, I thought he was way overrated. On second viewing though, I've come around a bit. He's not a good tackler really, but has the size to improve. You draft Jackson for his ball skills. Ward will be respected by QB's, Jackson will be feared.

My ideal draft in the first few rounds would look something like this. Trade back with Buffalo and get their 1st rounders. Then pick Evans and Jackson with those, and Arden Key in the second.

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stockholder's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:24 pm

I don't believe Buffalo would ever give up both 1st round picks. If they want a QB. I would spend the money in FA first. Even Cleveland is considering that now.

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Community Guy's picture

February 26, 2018 at 09:25 pm

if a trade happened with Buffalo, it might be their second first rounder (#22) and one of their two second round picks (pick 53 or 56) for #14.

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Bure9620's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:36 pm

I kind of agree with this article, If you look at sacks and just overall pressures and hurries, the Packers were about it the middle last year, 17th if I'm not mistaken. It just so happened that the secondary relied solely on pressure. Our situational passing defense on 3rd down was atrocious, almost historically bad and the secondary was Torched! Love what Gilbert displayed late last year and want to see what Biegel can do with that athleticism, Both are better edge rushers at this point than CM3.

Frankly I'm shocked Gilbert went undrafted, with that body type and athleticism. He also showed he can bend. Can't wait to see his jump next year, if he is not on the 53 that would be mismanagement.

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MarkinMadison's picture

February 26, 2018 at 07:37 pm

Honestly, I don't see a can't miss top of the 1st round prospect at either CB or edge. I like Jackson fine as a FBS CB, I don't know if he is really a top-15 pick. Honestly, unless someone unexpected falls (e.g. McGlitchy) it might be a good year to trade back. Feels like a draft that is deeper than it is high.

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Community Guy's picture

February 26, 2018 at 09:36 pm

i think people are ready for a real difference-maker at the EDGE position.. maybe the way Clay was early in his career when opposing offensive coordinators were concerned about CM3 on every snap. based on the tape of the talent available in the 2018 draft, the difference-maker types will almost certainly be drafted before the Packers pick in the second round. one of the free agent OLBs might be a consolation, but probably not quite enough to fulfill Packer Nation's hopes. i look forward to developments from both Gilbert and Biegel; however, i don't think that Gilbert and Biegel are what Packer fans are pinning their hopes on.

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Tundraboy's picture

February 26, 2018 at 11:22 pm

Albeit little thus far, I Ilke what I see from Gilbert. Nonetheless we need a proven pass rusher as we do a veteran cb to win when it counts.

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Royalty Free GM's picture

February 27, 2018 at 02:19 am

Boring and gutless :D

Gute, whatever you do, but don’t use 1st round pick on pass rush or cornerback this year, use it next year if you still need. This year you have to pick WR Ridley to help our offense to become a stoppable now and in coming years.

-Make a long term deal (rest of his career) with Aaron (10 years 200M) but same time get some new weapons (Ridley and Richardson/Moncrief) to Aaron to work with it and aim for the Superbowls. Let him finish as a lifelong Packer.

-Give Aaron 30M and get what we all deserve... success without Superbowls and with the same old boring tactics.

-Give Aaron what he deserves from the economic point of view. He is really the best of the best, so let it go and let somebody pay him 40M, maybe Jets...

20M or 40M... top players will be still able to use 1st class (planes, suites and michelin stars)... even everyday of the rest of their life. But with how many Superbowls?

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OnWisconsinGoPack's picture

February 27, 2018 at 02:31 am

With a new regime, comes renewed optimism in FA.

Sign one of Trumaine Johnson, Talib, or Fuller at CB
Sign Trey Burton at TE

The draft could then calmly unfold into:
1st - Derwin James (S)
2nd - Hercules, Lorenzo Carter or Chad Thomas (OLB)
3rd - DJ Moore, Anthony Miller, or Auden Tate (WR)
4th - Troy Fumagali (TE)
4th - Shaqueim Griffin (OLB)
5th - Chris Herndon (TE)
5th - Holton Hill (CB)
5th - Royce Freeman (RB)
6th - 7th -> Best Athletes Available (i.e. Jacky Cichy, Fred Warner, Andre Brown, Cedric Wilson, Darius Fountain, Nathan Shepard)

Admittedly, these are most of my draft crushes, but if Fanspeak has any merit for player rankings, we could add instant impact players in a very deep draft in each round....and trading back in round 1 for an additional second wouldn't be terrible.

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Turophile's picture

February 27, 2018 at 05:19 am

The accuracy of Fanspeak depends a great deal on which board you use. Some are very different from others. So, if you have a fair idea of the value of a good number of players, you can pick bargains, selecting the ones that are low on this particular board, but higher on other boards.

Your particular draft does not have outrageous picks.

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stockholder's picture

February 27, 2018 at 07:23 am

Cedric Wilson, Darius Fountain, Freeman,Herndon all will go before the 5th.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 27, 2018 at 06:57 am

Like many above, I don't see a worthy Edge being available at 14, and I'm not sold on any CBs there either. The highest quality looks like it will be at DT, with Vea, Settle, Hurst, Phillips, Payne, Bryan, etc. ALL likely to be there at 14. I was tossing around the possibility of a 1. Vea 2. Settle draft for Green Bay. Everyone would scream, but that would create the best 4-3 DL in the NFL, and allow you to really focus on pure speed/coverage at LB and DB. (not happening, but interesting :) ) If GB could do a fair trade-down I'd be happy, but I don't think there will be any takers unless a QB is there that someone really wants. The second and third rounds look really good this year, especially for GB needs: TE, WR, and maybe some OLBs (personally I'm a big VanDerEsche fan--he looks like a faster-but-less-strong Clay).

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stockholder's picture

February 27, 2018 at 07:17 am

1. They Should , probably not. 2. No way on Settle. 3. Phillps . may b e M. Daniels. ( I still think he'll be better than Davenport. Davenport more like perry.?) Which is a good question. Who is better, Daniels or Nick Perry? Still think James has a shot depending on what he runs. 4.5 doesn't do it for me at safety.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 27, 2018 at 01:07 pm

I'm curious why you don't like Settle. I see him as a bargain in the second: he's only 19 and completely blows up offensive lines already. He's going to just get better the next few years. The name of the game is leverage, and I've NEVER seen an inside DL get lower than Settle. Paired with Vea, offenses would practically be forced to remove inside runs from their playbooks. I don't expect GB to pick either, but they'd completely change the defense's needs and flexibility for years.

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dobber's picture

February 27, 2018 at 01:34 pm

"I'm curious why you don't like Settle"

Because he doesn't run a 4.4 - 40...

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dobber's picture

February 27, 2018 at 07:43 am

"(personally I'm a big VanDerEsche fan--he looks like a faster-but-less-strong Clay)."

So, essentially, another Kyler Fackrell?

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 27, 2018 at 01:01 pm

Ironically, I was a huge Fackrell fan before the draft. That hasn't worked out well, but I saw him as a coverage LB, not a pass rusher. That's what the tape showed me. I still think he has been misused. VanDer Esche is a very explosive player, but he does it with speed instead of strength; I feel like he will be a difference-maker in the NFL by his second or third season.

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dobber's picture

February 27, 2018 at 01:32 pm

I was a fan of Fackrell, too. Just being snarky...

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OrganLeroy's picture

February 27, 2018 at 03:45 pm

Vander Esch won't be there in the 3rd, he'll go in the 1st round.

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fthisJack's picture

February 27, 2018 at 09:30 am

i like Derwin James if he tests well at the combine. especially after the dismal season our pro bowl safety had last year and if we don't resign Burnett. maybe that would light a fire under HHCD underperforming butt.

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