Meet Your Green Bay Packers 2023 Draft Picks

For the first time as a group, welcome the Packers' newest additions!

It's a new era in Green Bay. With Aaron Rodgers gone and Jordan Love now under center, plus a whole host of veterans not being brought back, the Packers are going young and have a boatload of new rookies that will hopefully help steer the ship into a bright future.

For the first time all together, here are the 2023 Green Bay Packers draft picks--a whopping THIRTEEN of them!

Round 1

#13 Overall: Lukas Van Ness, EDGE, Iowa

EDGE was one of about three positions the Packers were expected to look at in the first round, and while there are certainly those who are frustrated with the team constantly going defense with its first pick, there's no doubt it was a need. Preston Smith isn't getting younger, Rashan Gary is going to miss the first portion of the upcoming season, and Kingsley Enagbare has shown some flashes but is still raw and a rotational player.

Van Ness is a freak athlete with both power and finesse moves. He was a constant playmaker, and, while not a starter, played starter reps (similar to Packer great Clay Matthews) and made plays all over the field on both defense and special teams. The way he's been described is very similar to Rashan Gary and Matthews himself; high-motor, outstanding athleticism, AND young (turns 22 in July). He holds up against the run and can play from the edge or inside, making him a versatile piece for the defense. A strong selection to start the draft.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 2

#42 Overall: Luke Musgrave, TE, Oregon State

The Packers were in desperate need of help at the tight end position coming into this draft, and Musgrave was a player who had been tied to Green Bay by plenty of people who know what they're talking about. Musgrave had excellent measurables as an athlete and showed out in the first portion of the 2022 season before missing the rest of the year with an injury. He was broadly considered one of the finest players at his position in the draft. 

Musgrave is a highly versatile player who could easily be a three-down player for the team. His combination of size, strength, and burst makes him both a vertical and horizontal threat, and while he is not the strongest blocking tight end in the draft, he's certainly willing to get his hands dirty. The Packers desperately needed a reliable pass catching tight end, and Musgrave looks like a guy who could fit the bill.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#50 Overall: Jayden Reed, WR, Michigan State

There were some critics of this pick who thought the Packers may have reached for Reed, but he certainly fits the mold of a player the Packers really need in their offense. Reed figures to slide right into the slot position with the Packers. He's on the smaller side for what the Packers typically like, but bigger than other guys they've recently had in the slot (Randall Cobb and Amari Rodgers come to mind immediately). He produced some pretty strong stats as a three-year college starter, and was a reliable returner as well for the Spartans.

Perhaps most importantly, this guy is FAST. The Packers have been dealing with a lack of speed in the slot of late. Not any more. With Reed, Christian Watson, and Romeo Doubs on the field, that's three burners who are always a risk to take it to the house. It's been a long time since the Packers have had that level of speed out of their top three wide receivers, if they've ever even had similar speed at the position at all. 

Expect Matt LaFleur to get creative with how he uses Reed.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 3

#78 Overall:Tucker Kraft, TE, South Dakota State

Gutekunst loves to double up at positions of need, and he did it again here with a second tight end on the same night in Kraft. Hopefully Kraft breaks the third round curse! 

Kraft dealt with a lot of injuries in 2022, but has shown a lot of potential, especially in a strong 2021 campaign. He's an excellent athlete and still has growing to do. He's a guy who was looked at as having a lot of upside, and he'll have the benefit of being able to grow alongside Musgrave. A very intriguing prospect who could end up being a great help in the middle of the field.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 4

#116 Overall: Colby Wooden, DE, Auburn

Defensive line depth was certainly a need for the Packers entering the draft, and so the Packers snagged an ascending player in Wooden in the fourth round. He can play either on the interior or exterior line, which is exactly the kind of versatility the Packers prize in their guys up front. He'll probably need to put on a bit more weight still to hold up to the NFL game, but he's a solid pass rusher and should serve well in the team's rotation to generate pressure. This is a guy who will need a little development (as are all day 3 picks, basically), and fortunately he'll have the ability to do so behind several other players on the depth chart.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 5

#149 Overall: Sean Clifford, QB, Penn State

Definitely the wildest and weirdest pick of the day. The Packers absolutely needed to come away with a quarterback to develop behind Love and serve as a (hopefully) functional backup, as they don't really have the resources to dedicate to a vetrean backup. But Clifford was considered by the consensus to be a UDFA at best. The last three rounds are mostly flyer picks, but as far as fifth round goes, this is about as weird as it gets. Still, there's no denying Clifford has athletic talent, and he's not going to be expected to get into the game. If Love goes down, the Packers are essentially screwed regardless.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#159 Overall: Dontayvion Wicks, WR, Virginia

Now this was more like it. Wicks fits the classic Packer wide receiver mold; big, strong, extremely athletic. One of the top RAS scores of the position in the draft. He had a massive junior season and flashed a lot of impressive skills. He's capable of making impressive catches and running a wide range of routes. He's not the speedster that the Packers' top wide receivers are, but he can definitely play.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 6

#179 Overall: Karl Brooks, DT, Bowling Green

Brooks is not an athletic specimen like much of the rest of the draft class, but he was an absolute beast at Bowling Green. He wrecked things up front throughout his career and was a consistently disruptive presence. He was one of PFF's highest-graded run defenders in the country, and is a more than capable pass rusher. This is one of those cases where you trust the tape and ignore the measurables. Fantastic value in round 6.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#207 Overall: Anders Carlson, K, Auburn

The Packers defnitely need some kicking competition, but this guy ain't it. Made only 71% of his field goals at Auburn, doesn't seem to have any noteworthy strengths. Difficult to determine why this was the selection rather than several of the other kickers available at the time.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

Round 7

#232 Overall: Carrington Valentine, CB, Kentucky

Seems to be a solid value pick here; Mel Kiper had Valentine as his best available player for much of the day up until the Packers finally selected him in the 7th. He works best as a man corner (so good luck with Joe Barry, I guess) and should be a solid rotational/depth player. He's an outstanding athlete, but lacks ball instincts and isn't aggressive in the run game.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#235 Overall: Lew Nichols, RB, Central Michigan

The Packers only had two running backs on the roster with noteworthy NFL experience, so taking a late flyer on a guy who led the NCAA in rushing a couple years ago makes sense. His measurables aren't the absolute best, but he had collegiate success as a featured back and was a capable receiver. The big test for his staying power will be whether he can be effective in pass pro. Not a roster lock, but certainly a guy who will get plenty of reps over the summer and have a chance to show something.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#242 Overall: Anthony Johnson, Jr., S, Iowa State

It was a big surprise to see Johnson last this late into the draft. Many thought a team (like the Packers) could take him several rounds earlier. So this is outstanding value for a guy who could push for some real significant playing time, including possibly even a starting role. Johnson was a captain and respected leader who performed quite well over the course of 54 career starts. He's a convert from cornerback, so his relative newness to the position could result in a bit of a learning curve. But he's a smart, capable player who will get plenty of opportunities in a safety room packed with players, but few who have starting potential.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

#256 Overall: Grant DuBose, WR, Charlotte

With their final selection, the Packers went back to the wide receiver well for a third time in the draft. DuBose doesn't have a lot of in-game experience, but certainly showcases impressive abilities that make him worth a late-round flyer. Scouting shows he's able to line up in a variet yof positions and is good at out-muscling defenders for jump balls, though he can have a hard time getting off press coverage and is still developing separation quickness.

CHTV Write-Up HERE

 

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__________________________

Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.

__________________________

9 points
 

Comments (300)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
TimBackes's picture

April 29, 2023 at 06:45 pm

Banger of a draft class overall IMO

23 points
30
7
greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:34 pm

Tim, I couldn’t agree more, at first look. This has the potential to be a banger of a draft class, indeed.

There’s a lot to like for the Packers as a team. All 3 phases: Offense, Defense & Special Teams look to have improved greatly simply viewing the talent being brought in this draft.

Significant, dynamic talents throughout, with measureables, tape, and resumes to prove what kind of production one might expect.

I see all three phases positively affected to the point we fans may have difficulty recognizing our own O, D & STs.

I think all three will realize many new capabilities to help the Green Bay Packers win big again.

*Including our Kicker selection, Anders Carlson, whom we all know Bisaccia wanted badly. He sees what we don’t, the positive aspects which he is passionate to coach forth, through those golden uprights.

Bravo, Brian Gutekunst & staff!

6 points
7
1
Nate-1980's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:53 am

Oh yeah a home run on every pick, stuper bull here we come, I especially liked watching mustgrave highlights were he fell down immediately after contact and didn’t break a single tackle, impressive..

-8 points
1
9
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:38 am

Too bad you don’t hold your literacy skills to the same standard.

8 points
8
0
10ve 💚's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:56 am

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

6 points
6
0
SoCalJim's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:35 pm

Looking forward to OTAs! I hope JLove and the new TEs/WRs develop some chemistry much earlier than previous seasons. Go Pack Go!

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:02 pm

I will be there, SoCalJim. Can’t wait.

0 points
0
0
PackfanNY's picture

April 29, 2023 at 06:58 pm

It’s early but I just feel it’s a really strong draft particularly in areas where the roster was weak. This draft helps the offense and the defense.

I don’t want to get too crazy but check out the highlights for Grant Dubose. The WR was our final pick and wow. That guy looks like an NFL receiver. I can’t wait to see how he performs in camp.

15 points
19
4
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:35 am

“Can’t wait to see how he performs BILLIE JEAN in camp”.
I fixed it for you, amigo! 😉
BTW, if you haven’t seen Aidan Hutchinson’s rendition of that song, give it a look. If you don’t smile, you might not possess a soul.

-2 points
2
4
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:08 pm

OMFG!

That was fantastic!!! High pressure too….!

2 points
2
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:24 pm

IKR?
I don’t care if he IS a Lion; it was a great job!

2 points
2
0
murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:01 am

Regarding highlights, aren’t they all somewhat spectacular? Pretty much it’s the best of their college career or last year. I do find them helpful. What I find most helpful is film breakdown that will show said players strength and weaknesses. Unfortunately, you probably won’t find them on a player like Dubose.

5 points
6
1
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:15 pm

Totally agree! If I showed you my hs football highlights, you’d be bewildered as to why I didn’t get a full ride at Alabama!

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:35 am

The S.Carolina CBs who both went in this Draft, shut him down. Good three-cone and elevation. He will have to learn footwork and technique or go into high school coaching. P squad guy?

2 points
3
1
CheesedDeadHead's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:25 pm

So the 4 catches for 60 yards (both just below his 2022 per game averages) he had in that game were from nobody covering him?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:38 pm

Guess it didn't help the cause in a 52-26 loss to S.C.

0 points
1
1
CheesedDeadHead's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:03 am

So it wasn't that he was shut down, it was that he didn't single-handedly lead his team to a defeat of an SEC team. Got it. Yep clearly you have made some really valid points. Every 7th rounder needs to be an SEC killer.

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:14 pm

Gute goes maverick in this draft.
My impression:
It seems he found guys underrated because of injury or other circumstances that hindered this past season, but who showed signs of stardom in college previously.
He went for highly talented but underrated players who are high-energy and hard-working.
Whatever happened to lower their ratings with scouts seems to be in the past.
They have enough experience to contribute this season, but a lot of room to grow.
It seems like a good variety of promising players overall matching positions of need for the Packers.
With a certain humility from just learning about these guys this week, I'd go so far as to give Gute a grade of "A."

6 points
19
13
Swisch's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:38 pm

With six down votes to only one up vote thus far, I guess we'll find out how Gute did in this 2023 draft, and how well I evaluated him, periodically over the next four seasons or so.
As an example, I'm hoping I have a good Reed on our first-selected wide receiver as being a dynamic rookie in the slot, as well as a valuable punt returner.

7 points
11
4
BirdDogUni's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:22 pm

I think someone took umbrage at how you described how Gutey came to pick these guys. I think you may be more right than you know, but they don't want to hear their GM is taking flyers on guys who are talented, but were injured or something else.

Tbh, and I know guys will scream bloody murder when I say this, but I think it is possible for Reed to have a better career than JSN. He's a lot faster. Runs harder. Has just as much talent if not more. That won't be a popular opinion either, but it's what I believe, and another reason Gutey didn't take JSN and drafted possibly the next monster Edge player in LVN.

7 points
10
3
greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:13 pm

Absolutely. Jayden Reed is a true QB’s Best Friend, and I can see him having a far better career than JSN.

This Packers team could get white hot once all these young players get thru half a season and start figuring it out together and start having fun playing winning football.

On the youth, I really like how last year’s rookies are the ones who will be looked up to by this new class. Transforming some of these players into team leaders.

4 points
6
2
Bure9620's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:19 am

Reed definitely seems like that type of player who is a better pro player than college player. Also, my opinion, WR production in college can be heavily QB dependent, Payton Thorne was not very good for Mich. ST.

7 points
7
0
dobber's picture

April 30, 2023 at 08:19 am

Had a big 2021 season, but that whole offense at MSU suffered when Walker went pro and they graduated a couple key OL. Thorne is only an average QB, but Reed still had 3 50-catch seasons in college. Personally, I think he was overdrafted, and there were higher-profile slot-only guys in this draft, but I'll wait to see if/how they use him.

4 points
5
1
PhantomII's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:16 am

He has inside/outside speed, change of speed and direction, contested catch fight for the ball. He can/will be put at any WR spot and also a returner which is why Gute drafted him here also. I saw everything you would want in a WR who can play any position. I wanted Rice myself...but this kid has every tool and uses them time and time again on film. I think he starts day 1...wherever we need him. 46 plays of 20+ yds in 2 seasons takes him to Watson territory as a big play waiting to happen with 4.3 's speed.

6 points
6
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:52 pm

How about perfect drafted, because SF was poised to take Jayden Reed? Stealing a dynamic talent like that from the 9ers is super sexy.

Yay, recon!

Speaking of WR, check out Dontayvion Wicks 2021 highlights. LOADED. This guy has TOUGHNESS, often dragging defenders, 3-4 of them after the catch. I think we’re going to see a lot of Wicks this year.
https://youtu.be/G1tLGF5Lmow

2 points
2
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:27 pm

👍 strictly for the “umbrage”, good sir!

2 points
2
0
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

April 30, 2023 at 09:33 pm

Swisch, it seems some people downvote you no matter what you write. I also notice they almost never comment. Just drive-by downvotes. I'm starting to get them too. Passive aggressive, just like their deity.

3 points
3
0
SpikeHyzer's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:28 pm

I noticed that about the injured and overlooked as well and wondered if maybe the 3rd is where he tries to snag a 1st or 2nd round value as a steal (Musgrave is the most athletic in the class and could easily have been the top ranked). Maybe he breaks the cures. Van Ness is similar, but more like hoping to get a top 5 talent at a very premium position with the 13th.

He swung for the fences on a few and got solid value picks for most of the rest it seems.

Don't like a QB that would have been available in UDFA, but not so upset with the K because he has a strong leg and was mostly solid to about 46 yards, with some of his misses coming in blowout losses and from long range. Made all of his XPs.

Solid B+ for me and with development of last year's class it feels like the 'rebuild' (it's more of a reload) began last year and could be complete enough with contributions from the new rookies to put the Pack back in contention for the Division and as a threat in the playoffs.

3 points
3
0
Packerpasty's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:15 pm

Not bad...dont really understand why the QB in that round and also the kicker seems to be a reach...im sure there will be kickers galore in training camp though...

14 points
14
0
Swisch's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:33 pm

Regarding Clifford at QB, maybe Gute saw in his considerable college experience uncommon leadership, competitiveness, and composure, along with mobility and the ability to improve in his throwing skills with top NFL coaching.
It's possible that Clifford could be a solid backup even as a rookie, especially if he doesn't have to fill in for a long stretch of games.
With the Packers seemingly thin with reserve quarterbacks, the fifth round doesn't seem like a stretch to take him.
As a GM, get the guy you really want before someone else does. Examine the consensus of the draft experts, but make your own decisions.

6 points
12
6
BirdDogUni's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:31 pm

He reminds me of Colt McCoy and Brock Purdy both. Not a strong arm, but good enough to be effective if need be. The reason he took him when he did is because he probably had a couple he was interested in and once Clayton Tune went, he had to pull the trigger.

5 points
7
2
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:43 am

Franklin runs a good scheme. Clifford distributed the ball, not lock into a couple guys. I like Big Ten guys who use a TE.

6 points
6
0
NickPerry's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:19 am

I'm with you Packerpatsy but IMO it was more why of why did they take THAT Quarterback and THAT Kicker?

I know a QB should have been taken, no doubt about it and with six picks in the 6th and 7th rounds HELL YES, take a Kicker. IMO neither of those two picks have much or any upside.

-1 points
2
3
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:41 am

To me, it appears the Anders Carlson pick was Rich Bisaccia’s all the way. Bisaccia had to convince Gutekunst he saw something special in Andres, despite his ACL, and thought the anomaly in Carlson’s accuracy was something he could correct.

Bisaccia is one of the best ST coaches currently in the game. If he’s willing to fight for a player, you get him.

3 points
5
2
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:54 am

The Kickers were off the board fast with Moody(Michigan) going to Lynch Rd.Three; Belichick traded UP to Rd Four for Ryland (Maryland); Nobody drafted Ruggles (Ohio State); The Bears signed an UDFA guy I thought the Pack would look at in Andre Szmyt (Syracuse) who won the Lou Groza Award as a freshman. All colder weather kickers. Bisaccia probably got some inside info on Carlson from his brother, a solid kicker who Zimmer wet the bed over, cut him and the queens are out of luck.

6 points
6
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:30 pm

Auburn’s Anders Carlson played 5 season, hitting 79 of 110 FG att and missed just 3 PATs on 176 att.

2022 made all 22 PATs and 70.6% of his FGs.

He and his brother Daniel manned the K position at Auburn for 9 years.

Anders 79 FG made is the All-Time Record in Auburn history.

As a KO specialist, 313 kickoffs averaging 61.4 yds and 183 touchbacks.

2020 Anders made 24-25 PATs and 20-22 FGs 90.9%.

2 points
2
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:19 pm

Our kicker is evaluated as potentially best of class if he returns to form after his injury. I'm thinking that coupled with his brother having been coached by Rich with our ST has to be why Gutey picked him.

Our QB kept Will Levis off the field.

1 points
1
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:29 pm

Sounds good to me!

2 points
2
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 09:56 am

Nick & Patty,
I just don't get it sometimes as Gutey is damned if he does & damned if he doesn't. In every draft it is the constant challenge of what does your team need the most and does the draft have the talent at those positions. Then it will depend on how the draft unfolds. The Packers had so many needs for talent that Gutey obviously pushed back the drafting of the QB. If he had taken the QB earlier than he would have missed out on a key player at an important position. There was a run on QB's and he likely wasn't able to draft who he ideally wanted. I am not a QB gruru, but it sounds like Clifford is an intelligent QB and athletic, but simply doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. I repeatedly see how QB's like AR somehow strengthen their arm once they are in the league. Is it just physically maturing that does it, or is there something that a player can specifically do on their own? Either way, at #116 I am happy with the Clifford pick. We desperately needed those 5 players we drafted ahead of Clifford. If he ends up not being the guy than we will need to keep looking. Let's hope the OL can keep Jordan Love healthy and we do not need to worry about it for 2023.

0 points
0
0
murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:19 am

Packer, what round did you think they should take a QB? I’m not sure if Clifford will be good enough to be a starter or even a good back up, but taking a QB in the fifth seems about right to me. For me, I love it and hope we take one most drafts similar to how Ron Wolf ran his draft.

7 points
8
1
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:46 am

I agree, murf. More than anything, QB was a surprise to me, thinking the Packers could easily get a good one in UDFA. They felt more strongly about the player.

Can’t argue too much. They certainly had the picks, and I think they got a good one.

3 points
4
1
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:19 am

He was taken where he was Ranked by Scouts. He and O'Connell ( 4th Rd ,Raiders) were close as passers. I would take him over Stetson Bennett and Robinson ( UCLA). Clayton Tune, just ahead of Clifford in the 5th, was an Air Raid, QB. I liked Max Duggan in the sixth. He went to the Chargers, 7th Rd. Clifford with the most production of the bunch, fits their profile @ 6'-2, 218-220 Lbs. 86 TDs to 31 INTs, 61.0 % completions. He beat out Levis.

4 points
4
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 09:59 am

Murf,
The 5th round was where I consistently thought the Packers should draft a QB. They had so many holes to fill at other positions. Just unfortunate a run on QB's took place ahead of the Clifford pick.

0 points
0
0
Bure9620's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:20 am

Yeah if Carlson bombs they can find a guy

4 points
4
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:22 pm

I'm hoping they have some competition for him in camp. Two went undrafted that look kinda better on paper, Szmyt and Pondersly (or something like that)

1 points
1
0
PhantomII's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:25 am

The Kickers brother is an NFL pro bowl kicker...A good brother is gonna help him out some also. Our ST coach came from Raiders where his brother was.

6 points
6
0
sjc28's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:23 pm

Gutekunst had a good draft going until the third round when he traded with a division rival who then picked a player the Packers desperately needed. Then he wasted two picks on a QB and kicker who weren't even projected to be drafted. Draft after draft he makes bad decisions. Why do Packer fans still support this guy.

-23 points
7
30
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:40 am

When you disagree with GUTEY’S moves, do you consider the idea that YOU might be the one who’s mistaken?

5 points
9
4
NickPerry's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:21 am

I can answer that TK, at least when it comes to myself.

Me, mistaken? NEVER! Big LOL followed by bigger eye roll.

4 points
4
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:50 am

Nope. LOL

That was first rate, TK.

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:06 am

Well said TK!

0 points
0
0
Nate-1980's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:58 am

Because they’re homers that drink the koolaid and haven’t realized yet that this president and gm have ruined this team.. It’ll take about 2-3 years when this team sits in last place of a crappy division for them to see the truth finally..Our gm is a moron, but they justify and stand behind one of the worst front offices in football.. You tell me I guess, I can’t figure it out either, but that’s my best guess..:)

-8 points
1
9
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:45 am

If you’re going to make statements like “our gm is a moron”, then you’ve lost all credibility.

4 points
5
1
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:29 pm

To be fair, Gutey went contrarian. He avoided most of the people who had pre-draft visits, and he picked mostly people who slid down due to injury but should be recovered by camp.

Will it work? The WL record will answer that but not in the first year. And our DC will spoil that regardless of draft (barring a miracle)

In the meantime remember that football math doesn't work, and take time to appreciate the dedication and accomplishment of the individual athletes. A team is an entirely different thing. If all goes as well as possible it'll still take until 2024 before the new offense really starts to gel, but at least JL10 should be jumping into pre-seaaon with passion.

2 points
2
0
LLCHESTY's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:28 pm

The Packers didn't make a trade in the 3rd round. Now go get your shine box.

5 points
5
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:33 pm

Clearly, you are a Good Fella!

2 points
2
0
SpikeHyzer's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:30 pm

To be fair, he got those 'wasted' picks for free essentially by trading a pick down twice earlier.
It's not like we can sign all 13.

0 points
1
1
The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

April 30, 2023 at 09:34 pm

We'll see how great Brian Branch is when he's chasing Christian Watson's coattails.

2 points
2
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:13 am

Ain't that true!

0 points
0
0
Oppy's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:27 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts about what constitutes a "reach"?

For instance, if a player is 'valued' as a #100 pick, how early can a team take him without it being considered "Reaching"?

Just curious what everyone's criteria for calling a pick a "reach" is.

8 points
8
0
Swisch's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:08 pm

As a GM, get your guys when you want them, within some reason, but without concern for a pick being considered a reach.
Listen to just about anyone with a good measure of football knowledge and common sense, even fans -- and especially the people you work with -- but then make your own calls with both humility and confidence.
That way, whatever happens, no regrets.

5 points
6
1
davekenya's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:35 pm

I would call someone a 'reach' if that player is taken a full round (32 slots) or more before that player was projected to be taken by the vast majority of other evaluators...

2 points
5
3
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:50 pm

A reach is only if all your scouts and yourself have ranked all the players and you have a specific player rated as say the #78th player and you select him early. Let's just say you draft him at #65 because you were concerned he would be gone. That is a reach!

0 points
2
2
Oppy's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:04 am

Is that only if you actively move up to take him?
Or is it still a reach if you already have the #65 pick?

0 points
2
2
Oppy's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:03 am

Who do we consider competent evaluators though?

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:34 am

Yes! That is the right question Oppy!

Lot of popular "draftniks" have also special interests in promoting this or that player to try to make his price higher that it is reality. And they got money for that.

I tend to believe to scouts who lives from salary paid by team who hired them. They are watching those guyd through HS and college and surely have more competent informations than someone who are watching the tapes and players from the room on the TV.

Still, with all the efforts, draft is still crystal ball business.

What I learned over my life is that many (more that 50%) persons who excells in good enviroment, when they face adversity completelly fell apart and you can not count on them. That's why is important to follow players through their careers as long as you can to make that kind of evaluations.

We only sees highlights of the players, rarely see in those highlights bad moments that every person face at time. It is not how you stand up at good moments, it is how fast you get up after be thrown to the knees!

5 points
6
1
SoCalJim's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:46 pm

“ Who do we consider competent evaluators though?”

Well, that’s obvious! Us CHTV commenters, that’s who! :^D

1 points
1
0
Turophile's picture

April 30, 2023 at 03:50 am

I'm with davekenya, but I'll expand on his comment a bit.

Firstly, a reach is in the eyes of the beholder (no, not the D&D monster). A reach in your or the media's eyes, may not be one on the teams board.

Second, I'd say one round early is a reach in the earlier parts of the draft, a round and a half in the middle and later parts (after round three) where the talent level is bunched closer together and you are picking guys with negatives of some sort (age, smarts, athleticism, production, character, etc).

If a team really likes a guy and wants him, but is sure they won't last until their next pick (for the sake of argument I'm assuming that means a full round later) then they can take him up to 20 picks earlier than they have ranked him.................... and THEY don't consider it a reach, as the player would be gone well before their next pick. This scenario also assumes they have evaluated correctly the area that guy would be taken.

To take a particular example, Did the Lions reach in taking RB Jahmyr Gibbs with pick 12 ? If we take a draft board (I'll take Drafttek for this). He was listed as pick 36 there. 36-12 = 24. That is just about a reach, as I think of it, more than 20 picks higher than projected and in round one, where the talent level drops fastest.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:32 pm

So then SF took the best kicker in this draft with a "reach." Ok but it'll probably work for them.

-1 points
0
1
greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:47 pm

I’m not insured for that. Next question.

6 points
8
2
Oppy's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:02 am

I'm asking for those people who continually call out a team for "Reaching" on players. I want to know when they consider a player a reach. Obviously, teams don't project each player to a specific pick. We know NFL scouts and personnel people group players into groups of players of like talent- tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 etc and so forth.

However, if we're going to effectively rate how draft hobbyists' predictions went compared to a specific teams' draft, we need to have a basis for grading their results the same sort of way they grade the pros- they seem to like to talk about picks being over or under drafted. They love to talk about a pick being a "reach", and therefore, a bad pick. Conversely, if they were targeting a player to be taken in the middle of round five, but the player was actually drafted by another team in late round 2, we could assess that they seriously miscalculated the value of that player.

So again..how many slots off do you think constitutes a reach? This could be a sliding scale- I think most draft hobbyists go bat shit crazy if a team picks a player at #7 when they "believe" he should have been picked around #18, but perhaps there is more leeway for a player picked at #127 who was projected around #140.

Just curious, I'm trying to establish a fair grading scale to hold some of the holier-than-thou draftniks accountable for their draft performance this year. You know, those guys who scream that this pick was horrible because it's a reach, we could have traded back and still got that pick 35 slots later, etc.

6 points
6
0
Turophile's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:12 am

I don't usually 'call out' teams for a reach and I do accept that team boards are stacked differently. In addition one aspect that is seldom considered in ranking players, is how they fit in that teams philosophy/scheme. For example, a run blocking beast of an OG who is a below average pass protector, would certainly NOT fit the Packers philosophy, as they have emphasised taking good pass protectors for many years.

That said, in my post above this, I've laid out what I would call a reach.

Bear in mind that the media is always looking for stories, so if they see what they consider a reach, they will gleefully point it out and may not be reasonable about it.

As for 'draftniks' screaming their pick was horrible, I'd say it is more common for them to hate the pick because for them it was the wrong position taken or a poor fit for their team, or they don't like the media description of that player.

The description of a reach is necessarily vague because it relies on an evaluation that differs between teams and among media boards. Therefore, any attempt to quantify it will always be something of a generalisation, which will fail to answer Oppy's question in a manner as exact as he/she would wish.

1 points
1
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:45 am

How about wait until the end of the season? Then, if he’s not an All-Pro, call him a reach and say “I knew it all along!”

Clearly I’m joking, but I might NOT be inaccurate!

3 points
3
0
murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:26 am

I agree Oppy with your thoughts. It goes the other way to, those same folks and to some extent I catch my self falling into the trap, if a player is mostly rated at 45 and you get him at 25 he than becomes a steel. I also don’t pay much attention to grades. The reality is nobody really knows how the draft will do till they start playing and even then it will take a couple of years because some players improve greatly as the months and years progress.

3 points
3
0
Matt's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:22 am

In my opinion reach is only then when you could have this guy with your next pick (but of course if next time it's your turn like in 10+ picks). For me it is stupid to consider a reach the situation when you choose a player at #80 projected to be #100, when your next turn is #112. You want the guy and there is a significant possibility he will not be there the next time. What is more I'd add to reach that when it is happening you could get better value for your team which is again very relative and impossible to verify.

The coin has two sides. Taking Washington in late 1st round wasn't consider as a reach before the Draft. What about after, when in reality he was one of the last ones in 3rd? Did he become a steal, is it his true value or maybe the future will say it was still a reach? Some fans are mad on Gutekunst he passed him in 3rd and didn't get a steal. Others are happy we didn't take him earlier. It's all too relative ;)

9 points
9
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:47 am

Good point!
The fact that he took TWO other tight ends when DW was available tells you what they thought of him.

4 points
4
0
PackfanNY's picture

April 30, 2023 at 08:36 am

Or what they thought or know about any injury concerns they may have. Teams have different Doctors and assess differently.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:14 pm

I’ll add, few team scouts know Georgia players better than the Packers.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:59 am

This is a perfect response, Matt. Well done.

You just described Gutekunst’s dilemma faced yearly picking players with a successful team.

If you really want a player slotted 25 picks deeper (“slotted” by DIC and “guessed at” are interchangeable here) to significantly help your football team, you take him!

I doubt WR Jayden Reed was a reach on Gutekunst’s own board.

4 points
4
0
Oppy's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:19 pm

My personal take is that if you take a player, you will never know if you would have had that player with your next pick.

The entire premise of "reach" is flawed because it is reliant on a pre-draft "grade" or "slotting" for each player, and that pre-draft assessment is arbitrary and built around the viewpoints of people who are outside the realm of the NFL professional scouting departments of the 32 franchises.

That being said, in my own opinion, the only way we can assess how informed and shrewd a draftnik actually is, is to compare the picks they're predicting are going to be taken by a given team- where they thought those picks would be taken compared to where they were actually selected by any NFL team.

4 points
4
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:45 pm

Yeah. There’s situations, real time communications & strategies which come into play here too.

For instance, imagine Gutekunst, sitting at 50, gets word SF is calling to trade up to 52 to take Reed. SEA was there at 52, run by good friend John Schneider.

Those calls happen, and I’d imagine there’s a small group of Wolf tree friends who look out for each other spanning decades.

1 points
1
0
Bure9620's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:28 am

It is hard not to say Sean Clifford was not a reach as it is really unlikely teams were clamoring to get him in the 5th. I do feel like if the Packers decided Clifford was their guy, he would have been there in the 6th and likely the 7th with their 4 picks. I am not going to eviscerate Gute for that pick as I consider anything after the 4th round a flyer as the hit rate is so low anyway.

The positives are Clifford is smart and he has played a ton of football at Penn St. It was strange watching him in college. He had some really ugly drives but moved the ball. It felt like he struggled the whole game, you then look at the stat sheet and he has like 311 yards with 2 TDs. I almost feel like if he were pressed into duty it would be kinda the same thing. He is a gamer. An overachiever. They are looking to unlock the Matt Flynn 2.0

5 points
6
1
Bitternotsour's picture

April 30, 2023 at 08:49 am

Conversely, Matt Flynn won a national championship.

In regards to the NFL draft, there is no such thing as a reach. There are good and bad picks, but "reach" picks are a media construction. None of us has ever seen a teams draft board, but I guarantee that not one front office makes a pick predicated on a TV talking head or amateur draft enthusiasts assessment. There are no reaches.

Can you imagine in a million years the Packers front office saying "you know, Mel Kiper and Bucky Brooks really like this player, we better move up and take him"

7 points
7
0
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:48 am

Well put!

1 points
1
0
Bure9620's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:52 am

I mean LSU won a National championship....Much better team. Hard to put that on Matt Flynn. He was a 7th round pick.

0 points
0
0
Bure9620's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:52 am

I mean LSU won a National championship....Much better team. Hard to put that on Matt Flynn. He was a 7th round pick.

0 points
0
0
PASSdaRELISH's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:59 am

If you’ve ever watched any Packer draft since Gute’s been making the picks you’ll see many prime examples of reach’s

-4 points
2
6
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:26 pm

2023 was Gutekunst’s 6th draft as a GM.

Yeah, there are going to be “reaches” and misses, and hopefully some hits. GMs literally learn “on the job,” only, there’s no one teaching them, because the last GM was fired.

And, to think drafting is only a small part of the job.

In his 3rd NFL Draft as a GM in 2020, Gutekunst makes a bold trade to take Jordan Love. Still made some gaffes.

They ALL DO. — Tony Mandarich

Here are some of the “gaffes” from Ron Wolf’s 3rd NFL Draft:

Orlando McKay

Christopher Holder

Shazzon Bradley

Andrew Oberg

Gabe Mokwuah

3 points
3
0
SpikeHyzer's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:32 pm

The Lion's first two picks were extraordinary reaches (even if the RB may have been the real best in class).
Two non premium positions. 4th and 5th according to ESPN's position needs analysis.

They picked the 28th best player with the 12 and the 58th with the 18th.

I guess a reach would maybe be 10 or 15 spots to me, especially if it's a low value position. I understand when a position is deep and you can get value later as well, but the Lions really screwed up early and then had some good picks.

0 points
0
0
CheesedDeadHead's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:29 pm

I think the Clifford and Carlson picks were head scratchers as both were basically unranked by most sites that put together rankings. There are some positives (albeit indirect) - Clifford kept Will Levis from starting and he had to transfer to UK so Clifford has talent and I don't think many will say the Penn St coaches are crazy or incompetent. Carlson had a very good 2020 then screwed up his non-kicking ACL so his results since 2020 may just be a result of recovery from a serious injury (plant leg is almost as important as the kicking leg). Packer fans should be aware from DBak and Jenkins ACL recoveries that they take more time than just getting back on the field. Maybe there's more to those 2 picks that just aren't obvious to us.

As for the rest of the draft, I think Gute realized we needed to generate more QB pressure from our DL and he addressed that with Van Ness, Wooden and Brooks. As for picking up 5 receivers (3 WR and 2 TE) I really like the 2023 class as a complement to the 2022 class and current WR room. Both TE's are very complementary with a taller more athletic Musgrave replacing Lazard. Many experts think Kraft can be a full-time TE and he has the athletic ability. I really like the WR class as unique assets to complement Watson/Dobbs/Toure and Wicks and Dubose could be steals based on their draft position. The 7th round showed the quality of the Packers scouting department as they identified several diamonds lost in the rough. While not as exciting as last years draft, I think Gute and company did an excellent job of addressing our weaknesses except for Safety, but Johnson may turn out to be better than any safety drafted round 4 and on. Of course we will see once the pads are on and they are facing NFL level competition, but overall a very good draft class.

17 points
18
1
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:54 pm

Gutey did very well & frankly he addressed the Safety position about how I did consistently in my mock drafts. There were bigger needs where there were much more talent at different positions to draft from than Safety. Gutey finally drafted a Safety where the talent was commensurate to the draft position IMO. Well done!

5 points
7
2
TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:49 am

Great minds, buddy!

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:15 am

Thanks TK!

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:37 pm

My Anthony Johnson Jr. notes:

Pick #242 Anthony Johnson Jr. - Iowa St.
6-0 207 4.54, 75.5” wingspan, 37.5 vertical (75%) 125 broad (77%)

Tackling, Run D, Coverage, Zone and Man/Press ALL 77%

243 tackles, 14 TFL, 3 sacks, 5 FF, 30 PBU, 2 INT over 62 games and 54 starts.

Versatile, but at his best in RUN D. Tough run defender who flashes press-man & zone coverage ability. Aggressive. Punishing, with crushing blows.

+ vision +recognition +awareness +diagnose +hard worker +explosion +lateral. Fluid reverse hip flip. Both productive and consistent. Needs coaching up in coverage. Converted CB with ball skills.

CB coverage with S eyes. Reads & deciphers quickly, reacting in a flash with nose for ball. Jumps routes. Drives fast on plays in front of him.

Tall framed with long arms. Great plant/cut. Great straight line speed. Great hip flip turn & chase. Active communicator pre snap.

TON of starting experience (4 years at CB, 1 year at S)

Still learning Deep Safety after 4 yrs at CB. Still getting acclimated there. Very comfortable in the box/slot.

***GREAT press-man & zone skills. Very good in Red Zone and Screen game. Great at reacting to the QB in coverage.

You can’t teach his effort.

I think AJJ is a unique Safety, and versatile to jump into CB like a switch.

“Illusion of complexity,” ring a bell? LaFleur did state upon Joe Barry’s hiring that he wanted same for his D. Show one read that morphs into something else entirely?

Plus, with RUN D being a top team need to address, AJJ is as equal the Run D Assasin as S Tarvarius Moore.

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 29, 2023 at 11:04 pm

There's also an UDFA S with a slightly better 40 time. This draft might prove to be more exciting than last year's if we get TEs generating 5-15 yards consistently and the red zone % goes back up!

3 points
3
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:17 am

Both Tucker & Musgrave can be threats!

At 6'6" Musgrave who unlike Big Dog has good hands & a smooth route runner. These two TE's are going to change the offense. I am sure we will see a lot of 12 personnel. Frankly, with the 2 TE's and a true slot WR in Jayden I haven't seen a Packer offense with this type of potential in a 'very long time'!

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:32 am

Clifford was "Ranked" No. Seven post Combine. Given a Fifth rd Grade. So he was pegged correctly.

5 points
6
1
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:55 pm

jannes, my buddy who was Packers beat reporter for years loved the Clifford, Brooks, Valentine, Nichols (BIGTIME VOUCH) and DuBose picks.

It’s pretty different watching the draft with guys like that. Their livelihood? They know their shit.

He FREAKED OUT when we got Nichols, and had tears in his eyes watching DuBose highlights.

Knows Clifford well and really liked the pick R5.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:49 pm

I love watching MAC football games mid-week. Brooks stood out for years making plays and is a leader. Same for Lew Nicholls,III. Too bad he couldn't snag Thomas Incoom @ Edge.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 09:34 pm

That’s fantastic, jannes. Don’t stop. I love that passion. It’s real. You’re a good fan of this game, my friend. No doubt.

I cannot wait for Karl Brooks to play for GB. Been crushing on Brooks to GB since Leatherhead first mentioned Adebawore. I was like, “Who else is in this thing?” Hadn’t even started researching players, then saw his stats with the obligatory cartoon eye pop! Hook. Line. Sinker.

My plans are already set to hit that first practice open to the public.

Drive up to practices whenever I’m able. I love seeing our newly drafted players. What a treat, coupled with the Kroll’s stop afterwards.

0 points
0
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:18 am

Tears.....damn! I thought I was bad & over the top! :)

0 points
0
0
Oppy's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:31 pm

"Packers only had 2 running backs on the roster"
.. Um, say what?

6 points
6
0
GregC's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:29 pm

I noticed that too. They have four running backs on the roster.

3 points
3
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:44 pm

I was surprised they took another. Height weight fits a toe, how does he look on film?

0 points
0
0
Kevin Carpenter's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:38 pm

Well, there's a reason Gute gets paid to make the decisions, and not me. Time will tell. This class had some great selections but also some serious headscratchers.

6 points
9
3
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:22 am

I am not so sure about headscratchers Doof. I mean what goes on in the Packer war room is extremely well thought out. About 30-40 scouts & coaches who have been working on this stuff for a long time. Believe me sometimes to us who are not in that war room it may seem like they do not know what they are doing but they had a plan well in advance of the draft & executed it. Might there been a player in each round they liked better than the one they preferred? Most likely but the guy they eventually draft was a guy they did exhausting research on and are comfortable with.

0 points
0
0
LambeauPlain's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:41 pm

Gutey brought a lot of brick an mortar to shore up the roster. Overall, I like most of the 13 selections. Lots of talent with productive athletes, hard workers, nice upsides, and leaders.

Maybe MLF and Gutey talked themselves into Clifford as I expect his visit impressed them. 3 time B1G first team is good. He's actually older than Jordan!

Landers must have had Bicassia's eye...maybe he thinks he can coach him up. IDK. If Rich was not fully on board...then he was not just a reach but a lunge.

Surprised no OL drafted from the decent class. Probably missed some prospect on their board.

Good draft.

6 points
8
2
greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:52 pm

I felt same until my friend who was a Packers beat writer for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel told me he really liked the Clifford pick, and had seen him play often.

His numbers are quite good.

Then he said, “You know why Levis went to Kentucky? Because he was at Penn State, and transferred to Kentucky after he couldn’t unseat Clifford as QB1.”

As for the Kicker, Anders Carlson, come on folks. You think Gutekunst is just going to take a struggling player and saddle him with Bisaccia without the coach’s input?

Bisaccia had to have recommended the choice to Gutekunst after seeing something in his own studies he felt he could coach into a complete correction, helping the player realize success.

10 points
11
1
BirdDogUni's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:14 pm

Yeah. My buddy told me about Levis transferring to Kentucky. I just watched Clifford's highlights, but he seems fearless on the field. Decent speed. Not a strong arm, but decent enough. Seems like he made some damn good decisions.

8 points
8
0
greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:38 pm

I know. Ridiculous trash job somewhere along the line. His numbers are really solid. He won awards…

4 points
5
1
stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:56 am

I loved the Clifford Pick.
Starr didn't throw like Johnny Unitas.
The guy is a leader.
Think To Brady. -
In fact Gutey should get him
Jahan Dotson.
Watch those highlights.

5 points
5
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 08:06 am

Stock, getting Dotson would be something. He was a pick that was highly undervalued.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:58 am

Trade the 2024 # One to Washington, for redundancy, or wait another three years when he is a free agent? On the other hand, were you referring to Brady ??

0 points
0
0
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 29, 2023 at 11:10 pm

Our new K has a brother coached by Rich. He knows something. Some sources say if he recovers fully from his knee injury he could prove to be the best K in this draft class, I think that's what he was picked based on. There are two others who look like maybe they could be better, maybe they become our UDFAs? Podlensky and Szmyt (or something like that)

I thought we had 2 backup QBs so I don't understand taking another, but for the intended role this guy seems GREAT!

0 points
3
3
croatpackfan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:47 am

No, we have only one back up. Another one was traded to Jets!

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:53 pm

Really great stuff SicSemperTyrannis.

You just knew there was a helluva lot more to Anders Carlson’s story upon his drafting.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:23 am

LP,
I too was hoping for & expecting an OT somewhere in the draft. My belief is Gutey really likes his OL and some of the younger prospects, which bodes well for the Packers. Glad they did not draft OL and able to focus on team needs on defense and offense.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:50 pm

I can live with VanESS - Edge -No Brainer
My Comparison was Whitney Mercellus.
*Whitney had a vertical jump of 32 inches*
MusGrave - Desparate? - Yes I can buy that.
After all- he was rated in the 60s.
Reed - He traded down for Him?
No Way Jose. - Draft Projection was 5th rd.
Not an elite athlete - slim build- Forget blocking
Body catcher . field speed isn’t elite
Short area quickness is poor. Not a field stretcher!
He does run good Routes. But this was a ST Move.
The trade screams Rebuild, Not All-IN. Trade grade E.
The Lions got the Prize. A move that looks Corrupt.
Kraft - A second TE? We only needed One, until later.
IMO. - It will take time for both to learn the Offense.
And both will have to block better. To replace Lewis.
The rest of the draft was typical of a rebuild.
I Liked it.

-10 points
3
13
stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:31 pm

For those guys praising these WRS.
Not one- doesn't drop Passes.
Whether it's Focus, or Body catching.
And after watching Gutey go for these guys.
Changing from top rated to Reach.
He would have been better off with Quentin Robinson

-1 points
2
3
murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:28 pm

Do you basically seek something negative to say about most things? If you try hard enough you can find something negative about anything.

1 points
1
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:30 am

SH,
Your observations are very different than mine. The Packers went for the BPA in round 1. LVN was apparently who they had ranked as their #1 player overall and they drafted him. Many times I had a defensive player going in round 1, but in round 2 & 3 I ALWAYS had them taking a TE & WR. Sometimes two TE's. Round 2 & 3 were the key to our draft. Musgrave was ALWAYS on my radar if we did not take a WR or TE in round 1. Why? Because his size and his ability to run and get down the field. He is going to be a nightmare for defenses. I believe the Packers are going to use him a little differently than in college. I too was caught off guard on the Reed selection but upon quite a bit of research following the pick this guy is going to be one hell of a player for the Packers. Everyone is young, but we have a lot of talent now at WR, TE, RB's. I believe we did damn good in the draft based on the circumstances we were in. Let's give the draft some time to fully evaluate.

0 points
0
0
MainePackFan's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:53 pm

Great day 1 and day 2. I won't claim to know more than our FO, but Day 3 doesn't thrill me at all. How does Sean Tucker go undrafted??? I'll trust they got it right. GPG!!!!

4 points
5
1
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:59 pm

Maine....you were suspiciously missed this weekend. Always value your enormously insightful comments on the draft & players.

3 points
3
0
MainePackFan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 05:52 am

Thanks Knock. I was in and out, reading everyone's comments. I didn't have a lot to add to the already insightful feedback provided by our well informed CHTV brothers and sisters :)

4 points
4
0
greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 08:12 am

Nice to know you’re all good, Mainer! I wondered same.

My draft plans flipped when good friend & former Packers beat writer returned from Mexico to watch draft. We were bashing ideas together all 3 days.

Prior to that I was going to hit the CHTV draft party. 100%. Pounded in some takes where I could.

1 points
2
1
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:31 am

The most suspicious absence throughout the whole draft and since is Packy. Packy who has so much to share about the draft & his preferred players, yet absent throughout. Why Packy? :)

0 points
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ShivaJim's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:54 pm

Hey, Van Ness better be Hercules. Gary had a year or two but Ness will open. I wanted D. Washington for my TE, but he had swollen knees so we got the blond guy. But he has the build and speed apparently, so we'll see. My spouse had her knees replaced in the sports department at the UW Clinic. Give Washington steel knees rather than make him a Steeler. I'm more impressed with the bottom of the draft and all the fast crafty guys. What Lefleur wants is apparently play makers, and this could be fun next year. Fortified D-line, an expensive offensive line and a bunch of crafty playmakers. Go Pack.

0 points
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Swisch's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:20 pm

Maybe it was better to go with Musgrave with a past knee injury that appears to be healed than with Washington having sore knees going forward, and carrying all of his weight.
I liked reading that Musgrave as a promising pass catcher is also a willing blocker, even if not an accomplished one as of yet.
Also, it seems good that Kraft is a capable pass catcher, even if he's primarily a blocker.
Plus, both guys seem ready to contribute as rookies to some degree, and have good potential for growth as tight ends of the future for the Packers.
***
P.S. Would it be fair to say that Musgrave is more of an unknown than Mayer as a pass catcher, but apparently more fleet of foot? How do their blocking skills compare at this point and going forward?

0 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:02 pm

I'd say two very different type of players all around. Musgrave is smoother & runs better. He has good hands as does Mayer. Mayer finds himself in a lot of contested catch situations. Musgrave is simply a much more explosive player and I'd give the nod to Mayer for blocking.

3 points
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GregC's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:33 pm

I read somewhere that Musgrave's knee injury was the result of a hit, which is better than if the knee just collapsed on its own. It seems like this kind of injury would be less likely to recur.

2 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:50 pm

Musgrave seems more like a replacement for Lazard. I would have liked to have seen Lazard used on the perimeter, AR12 was accurate enough to put it where only he could get it so it wouldn't matter if he was double teamed. Throwing to him in the middle didn't work out as well but Musgrave might work out better in this role?

1 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 29, 2023 at 11:16 pm

Lol already looking to positions of need next year, O line, RB, hopefully not QB. Seems we're staying pat with both last year's DBs and O line, which I think is a good idea.

Maybe they can get an UDFA to replace Joe Barry. Is Jeff Saturday available? Lol

-3 points
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stormin's picture

April 29, 2023 at 07:57 pm

Why keep trading back to get picks and then just throw them away with questionable picks ? This GM is a surely a head case !

-15 points
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greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:15 pm

You’re an idiot.

6 points
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croatpackfan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:51 am

greengold - cookie!

2 points
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stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:07 am

No he isn't-
You Dump Amos
Dump the pick-
And can't draft the best safety on the board.
Think about that. NEED.
A first round player!
Sure he had questions. Long speed.
But Branch was far the better player.
And then there was a LB by the name of Simpson.
Who will be an All-pro and can play anywhere.
Best Tackler in the draft that fell because he got hurt.

-5 points
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6
ReaganRulz's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:29 am

The safety position is such an obvious need. Gutey obviously knows something that we don’t. Otherwise he probably would have doubled up on the S position even later in the draft. Let’s see how this all shakes out. Maybe he picks up a FA which is slim pickings right now. But maybe after team cuts later this year.

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:11 am

Packers had several safeties on roster. And have veteran S. Tavarius Moore who played better at safety, he fell of 9ers team after they move him to slot.

I expect him to be starting safety for Packers.

1 points
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dobber's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:00 pm

Why "reach" for a safety when "everyone" says the S class is piss poor?

Can't do everything in a single draft. OT/S prospects likely to be better in 2024. It's a process.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:47 am

Anthony Johnson may have a Better career than Branch. As I wanted, a guy who played CB , then transitioned to Safety. A guy who can play the ball in the air and sniff out INTS (change field position). They already have the SS types in Rudy Ford and Tyriq Carpenter as a SS/LB rover. Cory Trice fell to the 7th and the Steelers bagged him. Gutey should have snagged him.

4 points
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stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:07 pm

Anthony Johnson
Was not good in Pass Coverage.
But he made plays everywhere.
I'm sure he got drafted as a Lb= Chin? Less speed
And thats why he went lower.

Branch was praised when taken.
McShay loved him.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:25 pm

McShay should stay in the Cocktail Lounge where he resides in Indy @ the Combine. Johnson was a rd.4-5 projection. He is a Slot S./CB and can play tight coverage with pass breakups, route recognition. He faced the TCU wide receivers. 6'-0 205 Lbs, 4.5 guy not much different than Amos' profile coming out of Penn State. Chinn=Tyriq Carpenter who they moved to rover.

1 points
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stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:14 pm

Saw 5 boards that had him in the top 50.
And that was after he dropped .

-1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:11 pm

Sewell was the best Hitter. He fell because the NFL does not want High Impact collisions any longer. Luepke wasn't even drafted. McCarthy wants a Fullback for his version of the WCO. The safeties have to be able to play the ball in the air, make the picks and breakup passes.

0 points
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stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:26 pm

Didn't I tell you 5th Rd? - My Mock.
Collisions - Thats Not it.
The ILBs can't go side line to sideline; with the faster RBs.
A 4.6 gets you a 3rd to 5th rd. grade.
Luepke is a FB. No one goes for them.
That day is gone. Offenses changed.
I had hopes, Even rd 5 on the hype.
But who needs a FB. When even RBs
get pushed down.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:38 pm

You were correct in the assessment, so The Bears took him in Rd Five and will probalby use him as a designated pass rusher like Spags uses Chenal (Rd 3,2022), another whiff on a Badger from my neck of the woods, for Andy Reid. He takes Rhyan. You had the correct call.

0 points
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greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:55 pm

Oh no you don’t.

You yourself said Branch was too slow in those discussions. Van Ness was the route to go and you said it yourself.

You ALSO said no Safety picks until R3-4.

YOU CANNOT PLAY BOTH SIDES!!!

2 points
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stockholder's picture

April 30, 2023 at 04:29 pm

I did. No doubt about that.
As quoted above- per Long Speed/ weight.
And I stuck Johnson in the 45th slot
on what Gutey would do. (Per my last mock)
And that was because of Need./Taken on both.
(Which obviously wasn't to Gutey. )
But I saw Branch still at 13 in mocks.
And Branch was in the room back stage. (A invite)
So like so many guys with problems that dropped.
How could so many people be wrong?
We constantly hear stories of shoes,Tweeks and medical.
But that didn't come up? What came up was he was a CB.
And he might be better on the corner. And The slow time?.
He was hyped for the first round,
But obviously not the second. Amos slowed down!
He more than likely can't outrun Branch.
So why not take him?
I liked Robinson more than any of them.
He was @75 but I wanted Rice.
So lets look at my final draft posted
EDGE then TE, Then S, then WR, then TE, Then QB
Gutey- Edge ,TE, Trade and took Wr earlier Not S.
TE instead of Rice ,then DL , Then QB.
But I was right. He was Wrong. Safety was the pick.
You still had the Tenn. Wrs on the Board.in place of Rice.
He wanted the 2nd TE so bad he gave up on Safety.
And I wouldn't have got Schoonmaker. Taking a DL then.
He did in Wooden.
Which is why I said he only needed 1 TE till later.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:02 pm

You got one thing right, safety was not a priority.

0 points
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greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 09:24 pm

“He was wrong.”

OK. I think we’re done here.

0 points
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stockholder's picture

May 01, 2023 at 06:48 am

Will see-

1 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:33 am

When you consider sh's multiple personalities, it makes perfect sense. He contradicts himself at every turn. I can't keep up.

0 points
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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:18 pm

For the 78th time, Packers draft for upside. Its not new as they've been doing this most of my adult life. Not a hard concept to understand.

2 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:32 am

Based on what?

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MooPack's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:00 pm

Top half of the draft is really good. They definitely felt the DLine needed some infusion of talent with three DL/Edge taken. I like all of them. Van Ness has more potential than most Edge/5i tech available. And that is the theme of this draft... potential. High on Musgrave as well (again potential). I had him TE2 after Darnell. Strange drop IMO. Jayden wasn't so much on my radar because of size, but gives the Packers a better slot type receiver than they've had in a while. ++ punt returner as well. Tucker Kraft is solid traditional TE. Can't wait for some two TE sets where defenses are more unsure if it's pass or run. Love has some young faster athletic targets now. I actually think the Offense is going to be better than last year.

I was disappointed in no OLine. It wasn't a great draft for them after the top three. Also could be the way the draft fell, but I'd thought they'd get at least one. I'm not as high on the Packers line and I'm worried an injury or two could really throw a wrench in stability. They must think highly of some younger guys like Tom, Rasheed Walker, and maybe Sean Rhyan. Hope Bakh holds up.

Safety class absolutely sucked, born out by picks throughout the draft. My guess is the Packers are waiting until next year. As of now the 2024 class has 3 Safeties in the top 15 and 5 in the top 40.

Don't sleep on QB Sean Clifford and RB Lew Nichols. The rest. Meh. We'll see what weeds out this summer.

3 points
4
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GregC's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:37 pm

Once they got past the first round, I didn't see any point in drafting an OL, so I'm glad they didn't. They already have plenty of developmental players on the roster, and it's too early to tell how most of them will pan out. They will have to wait till next year's draft to try and snag a talented OT. By then they may need two of them.

5 points
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greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:17 pm

Go to our roster and count the Tackles.

Are there 12 of them?

It was one of the worst iOL draft classes in years.

5 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 29, 2023 at 11:19 pm

We have 2 O linemen at 6'8" who have never taken an NFL snap. Would love to see them developed ...

2 points
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ReaganRulz's picture

April 30, 2023 at 07:22 am

My kid went to Indiana U so I watched OT Caleb Jones on a regular basis. Yes, he is comically ginormous and just hilarious to see him standing next to the other players. But he played so soft for his size and did not have the quickness to get the edge speedsters. I was shocked when the Packers added him, but his size is so intriguing. I hope that he sheds a little weight and gets the coaching that he needs. I hope that I’m wrong with my opinion of his potential.

4 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 11:53 am

Could be a classic case of “pad level”!

4 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:34 am

I believe they must feel pretty good about a couple of the younger OL players. There are several OL contracts coming up next year, so I was surprised as well. The Packers have a decent OL, and had so many other pressing needs so who knows.

0 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:08 pm

#13 : Lukas Van Ness, EDGE, Iowa - Hopefully a Clay Matthews/Maxx Crosby type
#42 : Luke Musgrave, TE, Oregon State - IF healthy a Jimmy Graham
#50 : Jayden Reed, WR, Michigan State - Reminds me of Donald Driver
#78 : Tucker Kraft, TE, South Dakota State - A solid, true TE type
#116 : Colby Wooden, DE, Auburn - REALLY like his potential to start on our DL
#149 : Sean Clifford, QB, Penn State- I can see him as a great PS QB, who can develop
#159 : Dontayvion Wicks, WR, Virginia - Boom-or-bust, give him a year
#179 : Karl Brooks, DT, Bowling Green - Will be our fourth-best DL over Slayton
#207 : Anders Carlson, K, Auburn – Injuries messed up his recent years, now recovered
#232 : Carrington Valentine, CB, Kentucky – physically gifted…special teams?
#235 : Lew Nichols, RB, Central Michigan – I worry about small school RBs…but maybe?
#242 : Anthony Johnson, Jr., S, Iowa State – Great value, likely future starter
#256 : Grant DuBose, WR, Charlotte – On his tape he looks GREAT!

UDFA: Camren McDonald TE Florida State - another high potential TE! Terrific player!

9 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 29, 2023 at 11:22 pm

Looks very promising! If half of these picked for potential work out this will be a STELLAR draft

0 points
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4thand10's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:08 am

Jayden Reed reminds me of Tyler Irvin when I looked at some of his college plays…I think the packers can do a lot with him. I’m also glad for the TE picks and of course Van Ness. Some 7 th rounders have turned out to be stars, some UDFAs have turned out to be stars in the NFL. How do you take out or tackle a guy like Washington? His knees. I liked him BUT maybe there were concerns there on longevity or Route running…I mean they interviewed all 3 top TEs before the draft so there must have been something there they didn’t like.According to packers.com…Biscasia maybe had a say in the kicking situation. It’s a new year, I wanna see how it shakes out. But it appears Gutey shored up a lot of weaknesses with bodies.. and potentially decent ones… and there still might be room for UDFAs and maybe 1 FA acquired. I’m not going to complain about the draft because i believe they did due diligence and research. None of us are pro scouts. I’m excited to see how it all shakes out.

5 points
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4thand10's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:18 am

Also, as a side note…they got quite a few cold weather players from cold states…I like that. There’s a certain toughness required for living in the cold

3 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:14 am

Competition in lots of position groups! I'd like to see that be the case with kickers, too. Two remain as UDFAs that look like they might be better than our guy, Szmyt and Podlesky (or something like that)

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:53 pm

Szmyt to the Bears. They didn't even sniff Gould.

0 points
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murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:50 am

I think you’re right about Washington. The knees and route running were issues. At some point I believe you can be too tall to play pass catcher. The taller you become the harder it is to make sharp cuts. They can look more lumbering than smooth and that’s what I saw in his tape. Tucker will be better than Washington IMO.

1 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:30 pm

It’s a pretty safe bet to say that GB agrees with you.
Twice!

1 points
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murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:47 am

Nice write up Pack..

Regarding LVN….I don’t see him in the mold of Matthews or Crosby as they both played around 250’s and were more finesse. I see him more in the mold of JJ Watt. I think the Packers will ask him to put on 15 more lbs. His frame is said to be able to handle it.
Musgrave = Finley? I like the Graham as well, if either we will be very happy.
Reed - I can’t think of another Packer to compare to because he is just more twitchy and quick than others I can think of.
Wooden….might be another gem from the 4th round.
Clifford, I see as the back up this year. Hope Love doesn’t get injured. Can the Packers afford a vet QB or should they spend that capital on a vet safety?
Wicks - I agree, love his potential
I think Brooks is the classic boom or bust prospect. Small school with enormous production. Can he do that with high level OL talent against him.

Don’t have an opinion on the others, didn’t have time to look at them.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:57 pm

Wooden should be the 5-6 tech/DE in 4-2 sets, hands in the ground. They can come from low-to-high and keep their Leverage and run faster Stunts. Hopefully, LaFleur put the Ultimatum on Barry to get in touch with the more complex rush schemes.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 12:28 pm

Clifford should end up the #2 guy after Summer Session. Valentine was a steal. Nicholls should make the squad. Anthony Johnson already Improves the safety room.

2 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:38 am

Jayden Reed - Reminds me of a fast JSN. ; )

0 points
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beerandbrats's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:09 pm

Mighty interesting that Will Levis was so highly touted but had to transfer to Kentucky because he couldn't beat out Sean Clifford. I'm pretty excited about this draft and the potential changes coming to the Packers! Imagine two TE sets with two big, fast TEs! We added speed to the slot with Jayden Reed and we are going to be tough to defend! I also liked the defensive line picks. The Packers picked up a few speedy, long and lanky athletes who can play both inside and out. Nicely done! There were certainly some head scratching picks but overall, I think the Packers are a much better team after this draft!

9 points
10
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croatpackfan's picture

April 30, 2023 at 02:57 am

I wonder if Cliford can be coached to the Matt Flynn level. If he will be better, that will be very well investment!

3 points
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murf7777's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:11 pm

Yeah…..3 DL guys, build the trenches Gutey! Last two years he built up the OL and this year the DL and TE’s. The draft was full of TE’s and DL and he took full advantage of the strength of the draft. Continued to fill the WR room. We didn’t fill the safety position so I suspect that will be done by trade or free agency. Certainly will be some UDFA as well.

I really love the Reed pick, not because I have a strong feeling about whether he will succeed or not, but because I really wanted Gutey to get a twitchy, athletic, fast WR. Reed fits that bill. I always love the way Andy Reid has a few of them on his team.

It will take a couple of years to really find out what this class is all about. Overall I feel good that they filled some important needs on this draft. Oh, I almost forgot, he also got a kicker and a back up QB.

13 points
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PASSdaRELISH's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:53 pm

I’m guessing you also felt good about Gute’s stellar draft in 2020?

-7 points
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greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:18 pm

Get bent.

-1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 01, 2023 at 10:36 am

Yes, and will even more after Jordan Love comes of age this year leading the Packers to equal or better win/loss record than in 2022.

1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:07 pm

Murf agree with everything but especially liked this:

"I really love the Reed pick, not because I have a strong feeling about whether he will succeed or not, but because I really wanted Gutey to get a twitchy, athletic, fast WR. Reed fits that bill. I always love the way Andy Reid has a few of them on his team."

Been wanting a guy like Reed for a long time. Year after year the draft comes and goes and guys I really liked who look and move like Reed are never drafted.

7 points
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murf7777's picture

April 30, 2023 at 06:53 am

Funny thing is when the selection happened I was like Reed who? I didn’t scout him because of his size…lol. The thing I do like about him is that he has that twitchy athletic ability but is larger than most that possess that talent.

4 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 30, 2023 at 10:12 am

Same here buddy!

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

April 30, 2023 at 01:18 pm

Tre Tucker went to the Raiders in Rd three along with Dell to his hometown team. Josh Downs to Indy, also in the third. Derius Davis went to the Chargers and my favorite Charlie Jones to add another weapon for Burrows. Teams want the fast break guys who get open fast. Still remember howling about Hunter Renfrow to be selected.
He takes Sternberger over McLaurin and trades out of the 4th round to move on Savage in lieu of Thornhill, or Montez Sweat. Read'em and weep.

1 points
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greengold's picture

April 30, 2023 at 09:55 pm

Very true murf. He’s no Smurf.

I’ve been wanting LaFleur to get the players I envisioned like many here upon his hire. I was excited to see them, and that kind of offensive style implemented.

Nope. We had to stay in darkness’s comfort zone.

Glad knowing it’s actually over and we can carry on.

0 points
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PackEyedOptimist's picture

April 29, 2023 at 08:11 pm

With Love and Valentine on the roster, February fourteenth is going to be lit!

15 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 29, 2023 at 09:07 pm

Good one!

2 points
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greengold's picture

April 29, 2023 at 10:20 pm

In my best Rodney Dangerfield:

“Hey everybody! We’re all gettin’ laid!”

5 points
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