Luke Musgrave or Tucker Kraft for Top Tight End?

Both young Tight Ends have a case for the number one spot on the depth chart entering the 2024 season.

After the Green Bay Packers selected Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft in the 2023 NFL Draft, my first thought was, "Great, we have two for the chance that at least one of them turns out good." If you've followed my writing or random Twitter rants for the last year, you'll know I've been dying for the Packers to have a big-play tight end. Well, there's a chance we may now have two.

Both Kraft and Musgrave split the season between the two of them getting their reps as the top tight end. Musgrave of course got the initial nod when Kraft struggled early in the season. But after Musgrave went down in week 11 with a lacerated kidney, Kraft took off and didn't look back. Each of them in their time at the number one spot averaged a little above 30 catches for around 350 yards and Musgrave scored one touchdown while Kraft scored two. And there was one more thing the two young tight ends excelled in outside of catching the ball. Blocking. A well-rounded tight end is a big target in the passing game as well as a great run and pass blocker when needed. For several years, with the tight ends the Packers had on the roster, it felt like we couldn't have both. Either we'd have a good ball-catching tight end that was so-so in the blocking category, or we'd have a great blocking tight end, that was just okay when it came to ball possession. 

These two promising young tight ends showed that it's going to be hard to justify keeping them off the field next year. But with a nice group of wide receivers as well in Green Bay, while we may see several two tight end sets, it's more likely only one of them will be on the field at a given time. So, which one should get the bulk of the reps, and which one should take the backup role?

 

There can only be one

Sure, it's a likely scenario Matt LaFleur rotates between Musgrave and Kraft on the field on offense. But to let them get into any type of rhythm, he may need to just pick one at a given time and let them roll for a while. In that case, what do they each bring to the table?

Luke Musgrave has appeared to be more of a "stretch the field" tight end. Musgrave was targeted on several deep balls in 2023 catching some but missing others. Nonetheless, the average yards traveled in the air before each reception for Musgrave was about 5.4 yards compared to Kraft's 4.0. Musgrave has a slight speed advantage over Kraft running a 4.61 second 40-yard dash speed to Kraft's 4.69 at the NFL combine last spring. Musgrave seems to also have an advantage over Kraft as well in terms of shaking defenders and getting open while route-running. The only setback could be staying on his feet once he makes that catch. Of course, he kept on his feet during his 38-yard touchdown in the Wild Card playoff over Dallas, so perhaps that's a good sign for the future. 

Tucker Kraft may not have the speed and route-running skills Musgrave has for a tight end, but he undoubtedly has the toughness. Kraft had four broken tackles over the 2023 campaign as well and he averaged 7.5 yards after the catch. We saw a few good stiff arms by Kraft to get by defenders as well as hurdle attempts over the top of a tackle attempt. Some may overlook those stats but they make Tucker Kraft a good target to have if it's 3rd and 3 or 4 yards for the first down. Kraft could act as a great security blanket to Jordan Love making himself available for the short catch, maybe slip by a tackle attempt en route to another first down. 

Make it situational

Between the two tight ends, they each have their own set of skills. So, when it comes to which one should be the number one tight end on the field at a given time, it should depend on the situation. We've learned lately that depth charts don't necessarily mean anything anymore unless you're a Quarterback. Defensive linemen rotate based on running vs passing situations, the same as linebackers. Even offensive linemen could occasionally rotate based on the current situation. We saw plenty of that last season with the Packers switching out Rasheed Walker, Yosh Nijman, Jon Runyan, and Sean Rhyan often. So, don't set it in stone that one is going to always be on the field over the other. Use their unique skills to the offense's advantage. 

If the Packers are looking to stretch the field, get a long pass up the middle, or perhaps even take some of the stress off the perimeter receivers, Luke Musgrave could be your guy to have at tight end on the field. He could be catching that 30-yard deep ball down-field, or his presence up the middle may draw a safety away from Christian Watson on the outside allowing him to slip past a defender for a huge play. 

If the offense is looking for sure throws in short-yardage situations, they could have their eyes on Tucker Kraft taking the field more often. He'll be there to take that 2-3 yard pass, break a tackle, and turn it into five or more. 

So, to answer my initial question to start, neither of them. Or is it both of them? Kraft and Musgrave both complement each other very well. So well, I'd love to see them both on the field together much more often. Two big-bodied pass-catchers, one coming from the typical tight end position and perhaps the other from the slot. make the defense pick their poison. Both of them I believe are a mismatch for a linebacker, and with some more improvement, they could both box out a safety pretty easily if they wanted.

2023 was a feeling-out process to see what we had in both of these players. Now is the time to use what we have to make this offense even more unstoppable. I can't wait to see it. Go Pack Go.

 

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Greg Meinholz is a lifelong devoted Packer fan. A contributor to CheeseheadTV as well as PackersTalk. Follow him on Twitter @gmeinholz for Packers commentary, random humor, beer endorsements, and occasional Star Wars and Marvel ramblings.

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10 points
 

Comments (93)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
PackEyedOptimist's picture

February 18, 2024 at 06:21 am

I absolutely expect MLF to alternate between them and say they are both "starters," and I'm fine with that. However, just as before the draft, I think Kraft is a WAY better NFL TE than Musgrave. He does what you need TEs to do: block, and move the chains. He also has less of an injury history, and that is a very valuable quality in a starter.

I really look forward to seeing Kraft/Musgrave/Watson/Wicks blocking in front of Aaron Jones. All four are receiving threats who block well.

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mrtundra's picture

February 18, 2024 at 07:53 am

What is Tyler Davis's situation? Is he coming back? I think Musgrave and Kraft deserve to start, with Sims as depth. If Tyler Davis is coming back, he'll be depth, too, IMO. I also feel we should look to draft another TE and develop him, Never hurts to have a lot of players who can play the position. Look how far we've come as far as the team's thinking goes on TEs. Under McCarthy, TEs were almost an aberration, rarely used. Now they are a focal point of our offense. Keep building the team with the position and GO PACK, GO!!!

8 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:06 am

Davis was coming on and would have made the squad. They probably draft another guy as an edge blocker and let them compete for a spot. Davis was a better blocker than Big Dog during the 2022 campaign.

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Coldworld's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:10 am

If I understand Davis’ injury, he probably won’t be fit to pass a physical till after his contract has expired. So he could be resigned but probably not till the summer.

As to his play, I was not particularly bowled over by his blocking. It was decent for a utility guy, but is that now what we need? Don’t we need a really good blocking TE or a true Fullback not a utility outlet?

How do they rate Simm’s blocking. Do we want more lead or in line? Is there a good blocking TE knocking around the league? Could someone like Spann-Ford drop enough and could we get him ready in time for this year? 270 pounds, a willing and aggressive blocker and with the capability to have offensive impact too when needed. Gute’s tendency has been to look for players already in the league for depth at TE and block first TEs are usually about and off the radar of most of us.

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Coldworld's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:14 am

I’m not really seeing them as similar players. For one thing Kraft looks more like a conventional TE in the making, but even as catchers, they have different attributes. The thing that stood out to me with Kraft is his foot speed and balance. Somewhat the opposite with Musgrave who does best when he can get the ball in motion. Musgrave is a weapon but is more a big receiver who can be physical in a better-than-Lazard sense and pose a bigger offensive threat.

I see the more interesting question going forward as being how Musgrave fits in with Watson/Doubs/Heath/Wicks/Melton. He’s going to play a lot from the slot I suspect, where each of those have received snaps, Kraft could get more snaps simply because of his wider non receiving role, especially if we don’t resign Deguara (as I anticipate) and don’t go for a true FB who can carry the ball. Sims would seem like good depth behind Kraft.

7 points
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Guam's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:21 am

You and I were typing at the same time CW and had the same idea about Kraft replacing Deguara's snaps. Great minds, etc. etc.

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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:09 am

What Deguara snaps? Kraft was the #1 TE target as the season progressed. Best to get a TE/HB guy in the draft as an additional Lead dog blocker.

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Guam's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:53 am

If you read my post below, Deguara got an average of 13 snaps per game or about 20% of the offensive snaps every game he played (thanks to LLChesty for pointing that out to me). That is a chunk of plays that needs to be replaced. The Packers can either draft a FB/HB or use Kraft in that role. Kraft is a strong enough blocker I think he would be fine as an H-back and he certainly is a good receiver.

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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:09 am

Kraft is not a guy to line up in the backfield. Cade Stover, Ben Sinnott, Jaheim Bell, Holker from Colorado State are move guys in the 240 lbs. range to sniff out in the 2024 draft. Ryan Day was very innovative with his use of Stover.

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LLCHESTY's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:25 am

Jaheim Bell is intriguing to me because you'd be adding a real weapon to the position Deguara plays. Bell had 73 carries for South Carolina in 2022 so he's no stranger to lining up in the backfield. His blocking needs work but he plays physical and that's half the battle. He could make a scary offense even scarier no matter what configuration they want to line up in.

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Guam's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:16 am

"Kraft is not a guy to line up in the backfield."

And how often was Deguara lined up in the backfield? Most of the time Degaura was used as a TE or motion back which Kraft could do well. If you want a true fullback, then the Packers will need to draft one.

I think the larger question is does Lafleur want a true fullback? He's played the last couple of years without one.

4 points
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stockholder's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:35 am

I'll take Cade Stover. -
He's just that good all around guy .

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:09 pm

A hands catcher who will block as a lead guy, full motor.

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Coldworld's picture

February 19, 2024 at 08:39 am

Stover is a good candidate if we want to use a HBack as more than a blocker. However, he’s not going to run the ball. What do we need a TE or a FB?

I lean to a FB who can provide some short yardage balm carrying. I do not want a H Back. We need someone who can lead block and help protect and we also could use an extra run option for hard yards.

We don’t need a pass catching weapon, we will have enough issues getting better ones in the field. We barely used Deguara as that and that’s what he did in college. we do need someone who can do more than just block. The ability to run the ball up the gut would achieve that.

Is Aker really a FB? He seems on the small side to me but I don’t follow him or the Badgers. Interested to hear from those who do. This player isn’t going to play a lot. It’s possible Davis would have taken Deguara’s snaps or many of them if healthy. It’s likely TEs will eat into them anyway. I’d prefer a piece that brings something different to specific situations. I’d prefer a true lead blocker.

We have more athleticism than we can get on the field. We need a bit more power and options on the ground.

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jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:12 am

They have never bagged a real fullback since Kuhn. Alec Ingold was there as an UDFA, but signed with the Raiders. He then signed as a FA with Miami. Last year Hunter Leupke was passed over and went to Dallas as another UDFA. The college game doesn't use them any longer, for fear of CTE issues. The NFL trends the same way. Stover can produce in pass pro and hit people on the run. The New Game is all about passing.

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Coldworld's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:48 am

Deguara was used as a fullback most of the time. He was seldom part of the passing game and then chiefly as a check down. In other words, we didn’t use the H back role, just the player.

Deguara was never a ball carrier and he’s not been a good blocker, lead or in line. I just don’t see the point of replacing the position we don’t use rather than just going out and getting a player who can run the ball situationally and lead block. There are still some of those about.

They aren’t high profile and they aren’t expensive and may be UDFAs current or recent. Just seems to make more sense to me unless we are changing how we use that roster spot.

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barutanseijin's picture

February 20, 2024 at 10:39 am

13 snaps? All on O? Degaura spottings became rarer as the season progressed. He even lost special teams snaps after the the Pittsburgh game . The trend is definitely towards an exit.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 18, 2024 at 12:48 pm

CW,
Spot on as usual!

What I anticipated prior to the draft and my opinion hasn't changed. Both are excellent! Been a long time coming to have good TE's, and a twitchy Slot WR. Would like to see a bigger & stronger Aaron Jones running back clone added in draft.

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dblbogey's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:32 pm

..." especially if we don’t resign Deguara ". Made me think of ol' John Kuhn, and how Deguara sucked in comparison. Yep, Deguara is gone and taking Royce Newman with him.

2 points
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Guam's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:18 am

Both Musgrave and Kraft are talented guys and I would look for more ways to get both of them on the field - it shouldn't have to be "either/or". I think Deguara's days in Green Bay are over and the Packers could easily use Kraft to replace him. Deguara averages about 13 offensive snaps a game and they are all as a blocker or receiver - he never runs the ball as a true fullback. Kraft could fulfill the role of H-back (blocker and receiver) as well as play TE.

Save a roster spot on the unneeded H-back player and get both Musgrave and Kraft on the field more often.

10 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:14 am

With this many offensive weapons, that has to be a consideration. I’m not opposed to a FB, but the more snaps I can have dual weapons out there the better. It’s going to be hard to get all of these guys enough snaps as it is.

5 points
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Untylu1968's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:44 am

I'd take a William Henderson all day long! Dude could catch and get the tough yards when needed.

4 points
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Guam's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:03 am

"It's going to be hard to get all of these guys enough snaps as it is."

That is a key issue. You want to give your good players enough snaps to keep them happy and engaged in the game. Allocating Deguara's snaps to Kraft/Musgrave allows the Packers to use both more and should allow both to develop to their full potential. Drafting a FB/HB just hinders their development and probably results in some "playing time" problems.

0 points
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HarryHodag's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:34 am

One of the goofiest notions is one MUST be the starter. It's really only a fabrication of people who think all things must be ranked.

Some teams have NO tight ends worth bothering about. The Packers have two worth bothering about. Quite honestly, with Sims and maybe Davis they have plenty of help at tight end.

I would say both of them will play, sometimes even on the same play. Sometimes neither will play with Sims in the game. With all the really good receivers they have there likely will be many plays where it's all receivers and no tight ends.

This is a great place to be. Opposing defenses can't concentrate on one player.

12 points
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Turophile's picture

February 18, 2024 at 06:22 pm

I absolutely salute that first sentence, Harry.
You might remember (if you are old enough, like 70+) the absurd comparison between Dylan and Donovan and who was better.......likewise between the Beatles and the Beach Boys. Total media nonsense.

2 points
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murf7777's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:40 am

I think you described each strengths accurately. After the draft, I thought Kraft would end up being the better of the two. He would be the one to break the 3rd round curse I thought. Watching his college tape showed me he was awesome after the catch. I think he is the most well rounded and is also athletic. I can see Musgrave also having a very good career. Rotate them to keep them fresh and played together, they will create mismatches.

10 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:00 am

Kraft is clearly the better TE as a blocker and with the ball in his hands going for the YAC. I still put my money on him to be the Pro Bowler. Musgrave can get open fast, but doesn't have the same agility. He's a post-up guy.
These guys should be getting the ball on an even distribution of snaps. If the WRs are doubled, these guys will destroy the opposing defenses.

10 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:06 am

Who cares? They are both ours for at least the next 3 years. It's great to be a Green Bay Packer.

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Untylu1968's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:47 am

Exactly! This discussion is right up there with who'll be WR1. If they're all good, who really gives a shit?

6 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:16 am

If anyone views this as a problem, it is a very nice problem to have.
If I had to choose an every down TE for this team, I would lean towards Kraft. Why? Because of his early down blocking ability edge in taking on the big offensive linemen and value to the running game while still providing the ability to chip block and present a flat safety valve for the quarterback. We have a talented group of wide receivers who will likely be the pre-snap target and if they fail to get open, the tight end or running back can be a safety valve option. However, those who prefer Musgrave, I can fully understand loving that guy; he is a very talented football player.

9 points
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Since'61's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:19 am

I disagree with the premise that one or the other TEs needs to be the #1 TE. The decision who plays should be based upon the opponent, the offensive game plan, the score and the down and distance. As long as both are healthy they should play in the appropriate situations and in tow TE sets which MLF likes to employ.

Except for the QB the concept of the #1 player at other positions is dissipating from the NFL especially at the skill positions and at many of the positions on defense. More and more positions are becoming rotational positions based on down and distance, the opponent and the score of the game.

Get the best 11 players on the field for every play and position for them for success on every play. The Packers are fortunate to have two young, talented TEs. They should utilize them both to achieve the best results on every play. GPG! Thanks, Since '61

9 points
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Pack88's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:31 am

I'm not sure what the thrust of the article is but who cares who is TE 1. Remember Chmura and Keith Jackson. They were a devastating duo and really made that 96 offense go. The good thing for GB is Musgrave and Kraft are young and KJ was old and hungry only for a title when he showed up in GB.

I suspect if these two guys stay healthy, Packer fans will be happy about TE for the next few years. One word of caution, a rookie season does not a career make. Just look at Eric Stokes. Greatness can also be fleeting just view Antonio Freeman who from late 95-97 was maybe the top receiver in football but by 98 was old and slow!

3 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:34 am

I was zeroed in on Kraft as a must have in the draft, even more than LaPorta, even though I am a Hawk fan. Kraft is really a better athlete than Musgrave, and thats not knocking Musgrave. We hit 2 homeruns with these guys last year. Now we have some real weapons on offense and as Harry said, "Who do you cover" or "What does the defense try to take away?"

It's amazing that we could go from having no TE room, to turning it into a strength in one year. Kudos to the front office for that and the whole draft in general last year. Safety is the next group to rebuild, and we should start with a good FA pickup before the draft. It doesn't need to be the most expensive/cap busting choice either. There will be 1/2 dozen good younger total upgrades for GB to go after under $10 million per year. I still am voting for Jeremy Chinn. That allows for maybe 2 more reasonable FA upgrades that turns us into what should be a Top 10 defense with the talent we already have.

On to the draft then and get us 2 good Safeties in the draft starting @ #41 with Nubin or Kinchens. Adding to the pieces we already have @ CB and O-line will make us a formidable team even next year, and a contender in 2025.

As far as Deguara. we don't need a replacement/new player for that position, especially for as little as we use it. I have always wondered why teams just don't use a TE type for the FB position if the team has one. Why use a bulked-up RB with short arms and small hands, when you can just throw a TE out there. Better for blocking too. With the embarrassment of riches we have with Musgrave and Kraft, if it means getting Kraft on the field more then give him all those snaps. Then teams really have to respect the formation more.

8 points
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Fubared's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:05 pm

I agree. I think they will light it up next year and we may end up with the best tight end combo in football if they can stay healthy that is. This is a good problem to have

0 points
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vin0770's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:38 am

Solution…go with 12 personnel A LOT

8 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:17 am

So, are we going take off the field to add an extra TE?

They'll both play. The one the blocks the best will get the most snaps. Neither one of them is going to get very many targets. This is an offense where the RB gets the ball 50% of the time and the TE gets it 10% of the time.

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Bitternotsour's picture

February 18, 2024 at 12:09 pm

I respectfully disagree, Musgrave and Kraft will get 70+ targets (combined) next year, you don't invest that kind of draft capital without a plan for use. The Packers are going to use a bunch of 12 personnel. I see very little 2 back sets, and I won't be surprised to see a number of tight end screens.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2024 at 03:43 pm

All the TEs got about 100 combined targets last year and the year before. Now, you can give them another 50, but that's going to be 50 fewer opportunities for other people.

In LaFleur's offense, the RB gets the ball about half the time. We like to line up 3 WRs and throw it to them. Doubs and Reed were targeted 190 times last year. Watson and Wicks were another 111. Melton and Heath and Toure totaled 76. That's 377 targets of the WRs as opposed to the 100 the TE gets. Divide that up by 17 games and that's about 22 plays to the WRs, about 33 plays to the RBs, and about 6 plays to the TEs.

Who gets it less? Personally,I'd like to see Watson and Wicks and the rest get more opportunities. Even Doubs and Reed were only getting about 6 chances each.

So it's not that I have something against TEs, or Musgrave or Kraft. It's just that the Packer offense is structured in a certain way, and that doesn't include featuring the TE on offense the way KC does.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 19, 2024 at 10:50 am

Offenses evolve to their strengths and opponents weaknesses, or at least good ones do. If all we do is stick to what we did in the past then we need a new OC or we are wasting our talent. Get the best matchups out there as much as possible and ignore labels and focus on results and defenses.

0 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 19, 2024 at 08:59 am

Agree completely Bitt. We aren't going to use them strictly as decoys next year. We finally got new toys @ TE that we have been complaining about not having forever. Let's play with the new toys. I would not be surprised if they caught 80 passes next year. Especially if Kraft were to take over Deguaras role. Gutey knows what he has and will use it.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 18, 2024 at 12:55 pm

Your elementary school math is off already. They were 12% of the offense this year with Musgrave missing 6 games.

Pigeonholing a position's production is silly. If either of them take a big jump they'll see more balls. It's more efficient to throw to TEs vs RBs.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:13 pm

I would expect LaFleur 's offense to be More efficient and run as many plays possible, each week. Spread the defense, compromise the weak links and Score Points.

4 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 18, 2024 at 03:22 pm

from your lips to god's ears

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2024 at 04:11 pm

I had to check. I'm not sure what you mean by efficient. I did see that the best scoring teams ran the most plays. That figures.

Dallas also led everybody in average number of plays per drive, at 6.8. But SF led everybody in points per possession with 2.7, which to me, speaks more to efficiency. Dallas was still #2. Green Bay was 9th at 2.19 ppg.

Dallas had the fewest drives in the league last year at 169, and Green Bay was 2nd with only 174. It has been argued that the Packers should try to create more possessions (and also giving the opponent more possessions), but it appears that the really efficient offenses are defined not by how many plays they run, but by how effectively they finish drives.

Good offenses get to the redzone. Dallas, again, the leader last year with 71. The Top 8 teams had at least 60 trips to the redzone. Everyone of them made the playoffs, including KC,SF, and the Packers.

I don't think it's about running as many plays as possible. I think it's about getting the ball into the hands of people who can get it into the endzone.

1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

February 18, 2024 at 06:32 pm

The road to the end zone doesn't matter as long as the final play crosses the goal line.

Most people will not complain about how we score touchdowns, as long as we score touchdowns.

We both know that the final evaluation is points. I'd like to see us be top three. I'll be mightily disappointed if we aren't top 5.

1 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:09 am

I will add Bitt, that good teams score TDs when in the red zone, not get stopped and have to settle for field goals. It is demoralizing for the other team and ratchets up the pressure on their offense to "keep up." Plus that's where our current kicker is the worst, on short kicks. Barring injuries, GB will have a lot of weapons on offense next year to keep drives going.

What we need to happen is after shoring up the defense LBs and D-Backs, to get off the field on 3rd down. Better field position for offense and defense not on the field as much. Win time of possession.

Although special teams is another area that if we took any kind of jump would be huge.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2024 at 03:51 pm

12% of the yards, or 12% of the plays? According to pro-football-reference, the Packer TEs were targeted 100 times. Divided by 17 games, that's just shy of 6 targets per game. We run over 60 plays most games. How is 6 12% of 60 or more? I'm talking about plays. How many plays do you get? Who gets the ball?

So you'd rather see the ball go to Kraft and Musgrave more, and the RB less. That's fine. But that's not what Green Bay is going to do , unless injuries force adjustments . Green Bay is going to give the ball to Jones and Dillon's replacement, and it's going to throw the ball downfield to WRs, who are faster. It will throw the ball to the TE about 6 times a game, on average.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:25 am

Whatever was Historically given as data does not presume a trend. These TEs and Greenhorns will be a year into the Big Leagues and will be better. 12 personnel will represent More reps this season and the Packers should be running 70 plays per game. Yes, I would rather put the ball downfield to a TE who can beat down on a CB than have the RB smacked around. It will be a Bayesian nightmare trying to slow down this offense with 8-9 legitimate targets.

0 points
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vin0770's picture

February 18, 2024 at 03:42 pm

RB likes 2TE for getting to the edge I bet then play action with 2TE gets really interesting.

2 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 04:59 pm

The solution is for the offense to be on the field more, longer drives, throw more passes, and catch more passes. Thats doable with this talent.

3 points
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golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:06 am

For what it's worth, I thought Kraft was as good or better than the Notre Dame TE, Mike Mayer. I am not sure how his year went in for the Raiders I think. I do know the big TE from Georgia, who everyone mocked to, us only caught like 9 passes on 10 targets with the Steelers. The biggest difference or question mark was Kraft's level of competition. You could see the talent and rare athleticism was there.

Those Dakota schools that play for national championships every year should not be overlooked. Players like Isaiah Davis, the Janus twins, Myles Harden, and multiple O-lineman from all those teams are NFL caliber talent. A team could do way worse than bring in the ones that aren't drafted as UFDAs.

4 points
4
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:47 am

#30 Morgan LT
#41 Nubin S
#52 Sweat DT
#62 C. Gray LB
#82 Irving RB
#89 C. Hart CB
#91 Coleman OG
#167 D.Johnson RB
#203 Oghoufo OLB
#215 S.Vaki SS
#242 E.Gibbs LB
#250 A.Gould WR/KR
Kendall Fuller as a FA pick up at CB. FA Guardto fill as backup.

-2 points
0
2
stockholder's picture

February 18, 2024 at 01:46 pm

Replacing the MONEY
Yosh Nijman OT. $4,304,000. @126 - C Mahogany IOL BC
Keisean Nixon CB 4,000,000. @41 - Jason Bullard Slot/SS Geo
D. Savage S 3,129,422. @25 - Cooper DeJean Iowa
John Ford. SS. 1500,000. @215 Comp-Trey Taylor S USAF
AJ Dillion. RB 1,321,458. @242 Isiah Davis RB SD State
Eric Wilson OLB. 1,232,500. @250 Comp-J. Sirmon LB CAl
Josiah Deguara TE. 1,136,942. @166 Comp-Jaheim Bell RB FSU
Tyler Davis. TE. 1,040,000.
John Owes SS 1,010,000. @88 - Jaden Hicks S Wa St.
Jon Runyon. G 867,419. @91 - D Puni OL Kan
Bo Melton. WR 0.
Daniel Whelan. 750,000
No to
Caleb Jones. OT. @203 CAEDON WALLACE. OT PS
Robert Rochelle CB.
Zayne Anderson. S @58 Payton Wilson LB/S NC st.
Patrick Taylor. RB
Christian Uphoff S

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:17 pm

No way DeJean falls to #25. I have an aversion to SEC defensive backs. He probably keeps Eric Wilson for Sp Teams. Mahogony and Goncalves are guys to look at rds 4-5. Jaden Hicks was the most complete DB in the PAC-12.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:22 pm

You really could put a any of the top three S at #25.
He's falling because of past injuries and plays downhill.

0 points
0
0
golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 05:16 pm

J, I was watching some highlights of RB Dillon Johnson-Washington, having a big game against USC. Dillon Johnson was very impressive, and I hope we have a shot at him as he is a really good, complete back. Runs hard with power, is fast, and caught like 200 passes as a RB.

The Safety from USC, Bullock, really jumped off the screen when he ran Johnson down from behind twice to save TDs. Johnson is not slow as he has been clocked in the 4.4s. Bullock would be a great 2nd tier Safety for us if something stupid happens with Nubin or Kinchen. He is a ballhawk, but he needs to put on about 15-20lbs @ 6'3. He has great hands. He has consistently been rated in the Top 5 draftable Safeties.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:32 am

I have been a big fan of Johnson all season. Transfer fromTexas A&M. If the Pack could snag Irving and Dillon Johnson, I would be in heaven. They represent the New Game, run and pass. He may not make it out of round three, the more you look at what he does and translates to the Pro Game.

0 points
0
0
golfpacker1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 05:03 pm

Don't need Sweat, I would have taken Tampa there instead. A draft pick @ #52 better be a 3 down starter.

1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

February 18, 2024 at 08:44 pm

The knock on Tampa is his hip turn. Dropping-
Like you stated earlier; Bullock FS
should be taken over Tampa.
But I took Payton Wilson over him.
Wilson is climbing!

2 points
3
1
golfpacker1's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:29 am

Unless scouts are basing their opinion on something they saw off last season tapes, I don't get that impression. Usually that gets exposed @ the combine. I have read nothing but good comments on Tampa and we should grab him in the 2nd round if we go a different route @ #25.

I really like Wilson also, Stock. The year Fred Ward came out he was my favorite LB in that draft. Fred was the best coverage LB that year. He has exceeded everyone's expectations with his play. I think Wilson is this years Fred Ward and would be a playmaker for GB.

I think it's interesting that Oren Burkes, who GB saw as their Fred Ward type LB, has blossomed and become decent in San Fran. That doesn't say much for our ability to develop players.

There will be some good options @ FA LB for the Packers, but I still find Bobby Wagner the most interesting because of his still strong play and probable low cost. I think if we added in free agency, our run defense would take a big jump for a small cost. Add a good tackling ball hawk @ Safety and we will look very different on defense. Maybe get off the field on 3rd down more.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:41 am

Burks was far from decent in the Super Bowl. Many put a lot if the blame for the loss on his play. He’s a depth piece. If by blossom you mean that, then perhaps. He remains athletic but still lacks the instincts we all wished he had when he was here.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:48 am

Agreed, he was a guy they brought in for Sp Teams. He backed up Greenlaw and saw snaps when the starter went down. Greenlaw's absence in crunch time hurt the 49rs chances in QTR IV. Burks did not contain Mahomes on his scrambles. Andy Reid saw Burks out there and attacked.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:43 am

I would move Tampa to safety/slot S. Bullock has a light frame. How doe he do vs. Kelce , or a 225lb WR running 4.45?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 19, 2024 at 09:36 am

Stop The Run! They have 3 techs and DE profiles already on this squad. Some pine for Gilbert Brown( 4-3, DT under Fritz ), this guy is More athletic. He knocks people backwards, occupies TWO blockers and swats down passes. He's my Guy.

0 points
0
0
harleycops's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:20 am

It's a mute point: Kraft or Musgrave. They have a year under their belts and year 2 projects to be even better. Design plays to their strengths and plays that use both of them at the same time on the field. With our jack-rabbit WRs, how is a defense going to key on 6 receivers and TEs. That leaves 5 to stop the run. A healthy Jones and a new bull dog RB in the draft, now we got some firepower in '24. GPG!

-1 points
2
3
NFLfan's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:32 am

.

0 points
0
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:58 am

gonna have to make the field bigger for all those players plus and OL and QB.

2 points
2
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 18, 2024 at 12:57 pm

Hey JB!

I agree 😆 but wholeheartedly on board about picking up a bull dog RB (though I want a bigger clone of Aaron Jones). We have seen the impact on offense when Jones is healthy. We need another younger dynamic RB

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:32 pm

William "Dummy" Hoy was a center fielder in Major League Baseball who played for several teams from 1888 to 1902. His nickname came from his inability to hear or speak; deaf and dumb as they said at the time. He was mute.

It's a moot point that Hoy was the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

7 points
7
0
Bitternotsour's picture

February 18, 2024 at 03:34 pm

I resisted, you couldn't. I winced when I read it, but I resisted. I like to think that I'm growing as a person. Perhaps its mutation, or maybe mootation?

4 points
4
0
TKWorldWide's picture

February 19, 2024 at 02:17 pm

Isn’t that an Alaskan dog breed?

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 18, 2024 at 04:36 pm

six receivers. And a QB. And 5 offensive linemen.

Do you think we could run that?

3 points
4
1
Bitternotsour's picture

February 18, 2024 at 06:33 pm

If we can pull that off we'll be a juggernaut.

1 points
1
0
splitpea1's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:05 am

Both. I'd like to see them both get more opportunities in the red zone, though. With only three TDs in the red zone during the regular season, this is probably a number that can be vastly improved upon going forward.

6 points
6
0
Spock's picture

February 19, 2024 at 08:55 am

Agree. Big targets should be utilized more in the Red Zone. My favorite play(s) in '23 was when the TE held a 'chip' block just enough to fool the other defense into forgetting about him, and then leaking out for a wide-open catch (usually for a TD).

1 points
1
0
13TimeChamps's picture

February 18, 2024 at 11:30 am

Musgrave seems to be more of a deep ball threat...more of a TE/WR hybrid if you will, whereas Kraft seems to have a little more of a mean streak in him while he either goes through you with a wicked stiff arm or hurdle over defenders, while picking up every extra yard available.

It'll be up to MLF to find the best ways to utilize both of their strengths, possibly using lots of 12 personnel. It's going to be exciting watching all these young pass catchers evolve over the next 2-3 years. Hopefully, the injury gods will be kind, because barring injury, this could be a very explosive offense.

7 points
7
0
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

February 18, 2024 at 01:02 pm

All of which points there really isn't a need to use draft capital to draft a WR, or TE. As someone indicated should Davis be back the TE position is extremely solid. Sims did pretty well last year and with another season under his belt should improve. Use draft capital for Safety, CB, LB, Edge, DL, OT, IOL, and RB. Lots of positions need upgrading and depth.

4 points
4
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

February 19, 2024 at 04:16 pm

Hey Snot,
I like the way you think.

0 points
0
0
PhantomII's picture

February 18, 2024 at 01:27 pm

Musgrave operates clumsy like he's still growing into his big feet or something. Kraft is the better TE and athlete as I initially thought. I liked La Porta quite a bit pre-draft. That was a pretty good crop of TE's in 2023. Our Base Offense should be 3-WR's / 1-TE / 1-RB (Jones).
If we are going up against mediocre teams we can use 5-WR sets with our OL holding up. Until our OL is Elite though we won't be able to use 5-WR sets AKA our greatest strength against Elite defenses....So games are always going to be close or a heartbreak like this season.

0 points
2
2
CoachJV's picture

February 18, 2024 at 02:25 pm

I truly felt that Kraft was the more complete package by the end of the season. I'm glad we have them both... but in time, I think Kraft will move ahead of Luke.

3 points
4
1
Coldworld's picture

February 19, 2024 at 08:55 am

I think Kraft is a TE. I’m not convinced Musgrave ever will be a conventional one. He’s a ridiculously fast big man who can catch. He’s the big physical catcher that can block better than WRs while being able to burn ILBs or overwhelm a DB. That’s fine with me. It’s just as valuable. Both could have stellar careers.

I don’t care who starts. The essence of our current potential is the variety of capable weapons. A true offensive guru could use this richness to give opposing defenses nightmares. The days of a set top 3 weapons out to be gone. Use the pieces and Love’s willingness to spread the ball tactically and situationally from week to week and in game depending on the opponent.

We may not have the best WR or TE in 2024, but I don’t recall this depth and variety of talent, size and speed across WR and TE. LaFleur has a golden opportunity to blow teams apart if he’s shrewd. Only pieces I’d like added are RBs who can get outside the tackles behind Jones and a FB instead of a H back/TE to lead block and threaten real power ball-in-hand situationally.

2 points
2
0
Strat's picture

February 18, 2024 at 05:32 pm

As long as they,re both here that's all that matters. Alternate them. And people need to stop the B.S. about Musgrave staying on his feet. Almost every throw to him from Love is way high. So much so that he needs full extension to even make the catch. Just be glad he does. Just for the fun of it, try hitting him somewhere around the numbers. Then maybe people will get what they want.

1 points
1
0
Oppy's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:24 pm

It's not about stumbling on the catch, it's about stumbling after the catch.. it's a real thing. Hopefully just a phase. Maybe Musgrave was dealing with some sort of stabilizing muscle strains we never heard about, but we can't write off the tape. He had a legitimate balance issue in 2023. I'd suggest ballet this off season. Like I always say- if it was good enough for Jerry Rice, it's good enough for anybody.

3 points
3
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 18, 2024 at 06:54 pm

Both! Doesn't matter to me either way.

2 points
2
0
Oppy's picture

February 18, 2024 at 09:19 pm

I believe Kraft will have a bigger career in the long run vs. Musgrave.

These two young men are full of potential, and both are good players.

I feel the difference is Musgrave is the player who has flashy attributes on paper and looks the part, but has yet to put it together on the field. You expect the seam-busting, deep threat "basketball athlete" type TE when you see the frame and the numbers. As we've all seen, though, he's got some strange issues with balance and agility on the field that you wouldn't expect when you see his numbers or watch him running routes in practice. I think he will be fine and we'll start seeing that guy running skinny post splitting the safeties soon.

With Kraft, you've got a player who, because of his build and stride, looks lumbering on the field, but that's an illusion. He's fast, twitchier than you'd expect, and has great balance. He's also more physically imposing than Musgrave. I feel he has the build and skillset to grow and be a long-term, high-output TE in this league. Do it all type guy. Inline, split wide, block, catch. He's the guy.

I've been dying to see two TE sets and personnel on the field to exploit a true "we can run it or pass it on any given down and get mismatches" type offense for decades. I feel like we have the personnel- and, the offensive scheme- to do this without having to sub players or tip our hand by formation.. let's see it. It'd be great to have a package we could roll out for a series or two in games to confuse defenses and keep them off balance when we need a momentum swing.

6 points
6
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:41 pm

I do not want to see separate packages for the 2 te.

that is a personnel "tell" for the defense and is self defeating.

both must run all sets and duties. only frequency of specific strength plays should be slightly different.

I hate platooning one dimensional players whether the dimensionality is real or imposed by scheme-playcalling. That is a 'tell' and is a nonzstarter in the NFL.

The coaching has to get better as the talent on the team gets better.

I have yet to see MLF 'pencil whip' any coach. General scheme and talented players notwithstanding.

I hope MLF's progression continues and that he grows into the large coaching shoes that this talented roster peovides him.

He will be on my watch list until his coaching catches up to and sometimes surpasses the cumulative talents of his roster.

-2 points
1
3
Oppy's picture

February 19, 2024 at 05:44 am

Its not a tell when all the skill position players can block and catch the ball. When you can both run out of a big formation and give a 5 wide look without subbing personnel.

As to MLF, you need to look again. Some of the best pure play calling and game planning Ive seen from the pack since holmgren.

2 points
2
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 19, 2024 at 10:50 am

your first statement is exactly what I said.

dont make any player one-dimensional in how he is deployed and used.

dont keep a one-dimensional player on the roster, find better.

I will look closer at MLF, but Im still not seeing what you describe.

-1 points
0
1
Oppy's picture

February 19, 2024 at 11:30 am

When you stated:

'I do not want to see separate packages for the 2 te. that is a personnel "tell" for the defense and is self defeating",

i mistook that to mean 'I don't want to see a separate package featuring 2 TE's, that is a "tell" for the defense and is self defeating."

I understand what you intended now, and we're on the same page.
I think with A.Jones (Excellent pass blocker, ball carrier, and receiving threat who can split wide), Musgrave and Kraft (block, receive inline or split), and almost any combination of Wicks, Watson, Heath, and Doubs, (big bodied WRs who will block) from which to flesh out the personnel package, you've got a combination of players that could line up 5 wide or "I" Formation or anything in-between and see results.

With MLF's proclivity for motion and ability to run the same plays (or disguise them) out of multiple formations, I think it could be a very advantageous package to roll out sparingly for a drive here and there.

Let the defense decide how they're going to defend a look, and have the ability to completely change formation and intent to punish them for their substitutions.

0 points
0
0
glblank24's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:11 pm

The Packers once had Mark Chmura and Keith Jackson and had plays where both were on the field. Why not Muskgrave and Kraft.

0 points
0
0
Johnblood27's picture

February 18, 2024 at 10:43 pm

MLF needs to do some serious research this off-season and study what Belichick and Brady did with Gronk and the murderer.

That was a 2 TE offense that cooked!

1 points
1
0
TKWorldWide's picture

February 19, 2024 at 02:19 pm

Travis Kelce.
Tucker Kraft.
….WorldWide.

Those initials signal greatness.

1 points
1
0
Rhah's picture

February 19, 2024 at 11:03 pm

Kraft is a better overall TE imo. I hope they both get plenty of time on the field. I probably would not try to get another TE. Kraft, Musgrave, and Sims should be enough. You can always have a guy like Davis on the PS in case you need him.

0 points
0
0