How Will Packers’ Draft Change In-Game Strategy?
The focus of the passing game should move to the middle of the field.
It’s still raining draft grades and player evaluations, and now we have the upcoming season’s schedule to ponder. So let’s contemplate the bigger picture: How might the Packers’ 2023 draft translate to the team’s play on the field?
I didn’t love some of the players Brian Gutekunst selected, and in a couple of spots I thought he left better opportunities on the table. But overall, I’m excited by important new directions this draft class appears to represent.
The most obvious change will be on offense, as demonstrated by three of the first five picks — and five of the first seven — being skill players on that side of the ball.
Of particular importance was the the tight end position, which is critically undervalued in the modern game. The Packers not only filled a glaring need, they doubled up, plucking Luke Musgrave in the second round and Tucker Kraft in the third.
Overall, this suggests much more focus on the middle of the field, and that’s huge. Aaron Rodgers’ penchant for the perimeter, from short out-routes to deep shots, was limiting, not to mention predictable. The go-balls were high variance plays, while the shorter routes virtually eliminated YAC opportunities.
Contrast this with a team like the 49ers, whose offense is built on YAC. It’s a scheme that puts multiple threats in the middle of the field, or traveling through it, which stresses the defense far more than one-on-one matchups up the sidelines.
With two receiving tight ends, we ought to see a lot more 12- and even 13-personnel formations (multiple tight-end sets). I’m not fully sold on Musgrave yet, but the decision to go with two receiving tight ends rather than a traditional inline TE was a great call. Kraft is particularly gifted after the catch, and Musgrave might be. The schematic options this opens up not only fit Jordan Love’s strengths, they will create more opportunities for the wideouts, and help the run game by putting added pressure on opposing linebackers.
Jayden Reed, the receiver selected between the TEs, fits this scheme as well. He’s not super fast like other wideouts in the draft, but neither is Brandon Aiyuk. Nor was Wes Walker, Cole Beasley or Randall Cobb. Reed is a superior pass catcher who fights for every ball, and is productive after the catch. The potential is there to be a slot beast, giving the defense even more headaches.
None of this eliminates the outside passing game; it enhances it, by making it less of the focal point. With threats from one or two tight ends and an aggressive slot receiver in the mix, and someone like Romeo Doubs moving across the deep middle, it’s much harder to provide defensive help for someone like Christian Watson racing up the sideline.
Most important, diversifying the offense gives opposing coaches a much more difficult task game planning for Green Bay. For years, the Packers have laid down maddeningly consistent tape week to week, making them one of the easiest teams in the league to prepare for. Instead, with a passing scheme centered on multiple weapons in the middle of the field, and with more options to scheme them open, defensive coordinators will have to wonder: Where do I focus? Who do I take away?
If the new TEs pick up the offense quickly, and if Matt LaFleur shows more schematic creativity now that Rodgers is gone, this could be an offense that surprises in 2023.
Special teams has been another emphasis throughout the off-season, a welcome change. This is another reason the Reed pick made perfect sense, even though he was picked ahead of his consensus grades. In addition to his receiving capabilities, Reed was among the most productive punt returners in this draft class. Not putting all the eggs in the Keisean Nixon basket, or simply having injury insurance, made Reed an excellent choice.
Finally, there’s Jordan Love. We’ve seen a tiny sample size of highlights and lowlights, and we’ll see more of both come the regular season. We really have no idea what to expect, but at least he’s been given a secure window of time to develop.
Most interesting to watch will be how much LaFleur decides to use Love’s mobility. Will there be a designed run component for him? Will we see a significant use of RPO? Will they roll him out or want him primarily operating out of the pocket? More shotgun? Or under center?
The trend with inexperienced mobile quarterbacks has been to throw them on the field early but scheme the offense around their run capabilities, while they grow accustomed to the broader complexity and speed of the pro game. It’s been a successful formula.
Green Bay likely won’t see Love in the same way, given his time in the league. My suspicion is he’ll be most used as a more traditional pocket passer, but I’d prefer to be wrong. Either way, I haven’t been this intrigued by, and curious to see, a new Packers season as I am with the one coming up.
__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child. He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.
Comments (109)
ricky
May 11, 2023 at 03:27 pm
One way to measure the success of Love is how quickly and how often Rodgers is asked about the new Green Bay QB. Especially if he is repeatedly asked if he thought that Love would be so good so quickly. Failure is not an option.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 08:34 pm
I thought success in football was measured by wins and losses?
Turophile
May 12, 2023 at 03:24 am
"Failure is not an option" is a saying that always triggers me.
Failure is ALWAYS an option. It is not an option you would choose, but one you will have to deal with, often. A head coach with the 'not an option' mentality, can put it on the players with statements like "it's up to you to make it work", but that gives no suggestions as to how they can accomplish that.
For example, if a specific play call is not working, then the best coaches acknowledge that quickly and change to a different play they hope will work. Here is another saying (by Einstein) I dislike almost as much, but fits here - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". It is a thoughtful counter to the 'bull-on-ahead' "not an option" mentality.
In broader terms if your scheme against a specific team is failing, you make half-time adjustments to counter that.
Perhaps a better saying is "Failure will happen to all teams, but the good ones adjust and do it faster." Some teams find it difficult to accept something is failing and are slow to adapt, or worse, keep on doing the same thing and failing over and over.
Finally to Jonathan Krim's piece. I am excited to see how different LaFleur's offense looks with a different QB. Through the season we should get an idea about how much his scheme was altered to suit Rodgers, and what his preferred scheme looks like. Passes over the middle is a big part of that.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 06:23 am
Turophile, stellar points.
Those who consistently make great adjustments win. Tough to do when your superstar player refuses to comply.
The past 3 full seasons I felt like my team had been hijacked by Mark Murphy & Aaron Rodgers. Imagine: so much so that we never saw our team’s O scheme under Matt LaFleur.
That’s some serious non-compliance and/or insubordination, by AR. Not sure what you’d call Murphy’s part, which extended into demanding Pettine while refusing Rizzi, other than insanity.
I’m glad Love is QB1, and look forward to seeing all of this come together with new, young, exciting talents filling out 2-3 years of roster change.
Our players, every last one of them to a man, had a front row seat to the dysfunction. They also had to put up with it.
Imagine THEIR desires to win, to play within scheme the way they had been drilled for those 3-4 years.
I think the Packers are going to be a powder keg exploding onto the rest of the NFL this season.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:26 am
It is my hope.....we never again see another player in the Green & Gold where the team foolishly concedes so much power to. I hope this is a lesson that every future GM & President of the GBP's remembers and never repeats. It is in part due to this foolishness & power grab play why I believe the Packers did not win another couple of SB's during AR's time as QB1.
T7Steve
May 12, 2023 at 07:30 am
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results".
Like keeping the same DC for "continuity"?
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 09:23 am
Steve, we see this differently.
Joe Barry was just completing his 2nd Season as DC. It’s not like he walked in here with an established scheme LaFleur found enticing. His previous DC experience met with failure.
What was it that got him the job? Maybe a willingness to embrace LaFleur’s vision for what LaFleur wanted his own scheme to be: multiple!!!
But, Barry was a phenomenal middle D specialist. He’s coached All-Pro LBs who could slip readily into coverage. Safeties who could morph into LB roles. Maybe, just maybe, the perfect man for the job.
Just look at the wasteland of players who never could measure up from Pettine’s scheme that required changing out. Look up our 2020 depth chart. It’s not pretty. That takes time to replace. Especially via the draft alone.
This is LaFleur’s brainchild 100%. Gutekunst, himself, may have contributed to its inception.
The delays in defensive success a product of Murphy forcing Pettine and his garbage upon LaFleur. That’s not Barry’s fault, hence, zero blowback on him from up top. LaFleur & Barry wanted to form a defense that no offensive scheme exists to counter.
3 man fronts that can switch mid snap to 4 man fronts. Zone coverages that could readily switch to press. Dime package looks that could morph into 3-4 looks on a dime.
None of us have anything to hang our hat upon in terms of describing what their intended scheme was/is called, other than LaFleur’s stated wishes that it offered the same “Illusion of Complexity,” that his intended O scheme offered upon his hire.
LaFleur did say that.
We will likely be seeing a scheme that has never before been assembled in the history of the NFL now that we have the players at every position required to run it.
I’m happy to wait longer to see it materialized. The dream realized.
At some point we may wind up praising the hell out of LaFleur’s, Barry’s & Gutekunst’s collective vision to make it happen.
Firing Barry last year would have been throwing out the baby with the bath water.
That’s my guess.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:29 am
This was good stuff GG!
Ferrari-Driver
May 12, 2023 at 09:30 am
Turophile, What you wrote is something Barry should read.
Coldworld
May 11, 2023 at 04:32 pm
This offense has to look radically different. That will involve more targets in more places. Take the ones defenses give us. We are no longer so limited in options. Let them pick their poison. Which one it is doesn’t matter, nor does where the target is on the field.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 08:33 pm
Its going to go backwards. Back to 2020 when they had nearly perfect balance (8th ranked pass O, 9th ranked rush O) and all kinds of creativity that led to wide open looks regularly and defenses having fits. I still cant understand why Rodgers hated that offense so much, as it provided him more easy wide open looks than he had any other year of his career. But I digress. Love, and this offense as a whole, are about to benefit from that balance, creativity, and wide open looks in a big way. I wouldnt want to face this team.
4thand10
May 12, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Kinda like it was Lafluers 1st couple yrs.Simple but complex. Basically all the stuff Rodgers didn’t like to do. He likes multiple TE sets. He FINALLY got his Tyler Irvin replacement in Reed …Slot/ utility. Makes it difficult and who to dial in coverage to. Will it be one of the TEs? Will it be the slot? Will it be a bomb to Watson or Doubs? Will it be a reverse with the new swerve in Jordan Reed?? That is what we had seen the first 2 yrs with LaFluer. He also likes to run on 3rd and short and all of the RBs on the roster are capable of picking up short yardage. I’ll catch some crap, but I know AR didn’t like running any of that stuff as he had his own ways of tricking defenses.
They picked up and Edge and a couple of DL to help Clark…a yr or 3 too late IMO, but that shows me they are attempting to stop the run rather than rely on the defense that i don’t even want to name ( but i will) …the 2-4-5. I don’t have super high expectations, but I think this team will be better than 8-9. IF AND THIS IS A BIG IF…they squeak out 10…we will know exactly if it was AR, LaFluer or Barry. I’d be totally cool with 10 wins in JL’s first yr.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:31 am
I agree CW! With the experienced OL & RB's Jordan Love should have enough time to make his reads & progressions. Everyone of the Packers WR's & TE's have enough ability to create separation and have good YAC ability. This should be fun!
splitpea1
May 11, 2023 at 05:42 pm
With so many developing parts, the focus should be on simplicity and moving the chains. Quick outs are fine if they produce favorable down and distance outcomes or first downs. They'll need to occasionally take downfield shots to loosen up the defense and to take advantage of Watson's speed. Using the middle of the field more often is fine, but good defenses can take that away by flooding the zone with defenders; adapt and succeed and don't be afraid to take what the defense gives you.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:33 am
Split,
Refreshing concepts and will be fun to watch. There should be a lot of changes in the offensive approach this year.
mnbadger
May 11, 2023 at 05:44 pm
"Either way, I haven’t been this intrigued . . . " - totally agree with you here.
I've prematurely predicted 7 - 10 but I'm still more excited about 2023 than I've been since 2011.
Ch Ch Ch Changes - fresh start.
Like Christmas morning as a kid.
I can't wait to see what's inside the packages!
Thank you Gutey!
GPG
LambeauPlain
May 11, 2023 at 06:51 pm
Reed not only runs great routes...his release and footwork at the snap is really good...not D. Adams good, but very good.
Like last year, many predicted Doubs would out perform Watson early. He did then injuries slowed him down as Watson took off. I kind of feel the same way about Kraft starting faster than #2 pick Musgrave due to his college experience receiving, YAC and blocking.
But wow...Musgrave is going to be fun to watch. The young man hits his top speed in a snap.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 08:28 pm
Reed was quietly one of the best in this draft at beating press. That in itself is about as good of a sign as there is that a receiver will be good in the NFL, as its the hardest thing for guys to learn.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 09:51 am
Amazing to me Kraft had 1/100th of a second slower 40 time. Musgrave 4.61 to Kraft’s 4.62.
This is gonna be fun, fun, fun.
Not since Keith Jackson & Mark Chmura fun.
PhantomII
May 12, 2023 at 02:25 pm
It's Musgrave hits 20+ MPH when running, which is Elite especially for a TE. I have great hope for both TE's. Kraft is a bit more muscled up and may hold up better overall. A lot of great pieces for JL to use. GPG...Can't wait.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:38 am
There are enough weapons now on offense that no matter who is on the field you know they have the ability to get it done.
You mention Doubs and I personally believe many have sort of forgotten about Doubs after the 2nd half of the season with Watson playing so strongly while Doubs was injured. Doubs is going to be an incredible player/WR and I am convinced he is going to put up amazing numbers. I would be surprised if Doubs numbers in 2023 were not similar to, or better than Watsons. Doubs is that good! Doubs footwork & play is very similar to Adam's, and he is only going to keep getting better.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 08:22 pm
I think your premise is backwards. Its not that their draft will impact their game strategy. Their plan of attack affected how they drafted. They havent had the true jet motion guy since Tyler Ervin. Insert Jayden Reed, whos a far more complete player than Ervin was by a landslide. Havent had a tight end they utilized downfield on all the playaction and misdirection stuff since Tonyan had 10 tds in 2020 pre-acl tear. Insert Luke Musgrave, whos ceiling is 10 times higher than Tonyan's. Musgrave actually played tight end in college too, unike Tonyan, who was a converted wide receiver. No more Big Dog? Hey there Tucker Kraft, you big beautiful beast of a man. And he can do damage in the receiving game that Big Dog just cant do anymore. I think Lafleur's offense combined with this infusion of talent and Love's willingness to run the offense as designed, is about to put the NFL on notice in a huuuuge way. To put it in perspective, Lions had a top 5 offense last year that was just shelling people despite not having many weapons beyond Amon Ra St. Brown. Their OC, Ben Johnson, runs an almost identicle offense to what Lafleur ran in 2019 and 2020. Made Goff a borderline MVP candidate. Is there anybody here who doesnt believe Love can be as effective as the average armed statuesque Jared Goff? Why cant Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, and Jayden Reed do the things St. Brown was doing? Why cant Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon do what Deandre Swift and Jamaal Williams did? Theres absolutely no reason this offense cant quickly become a juggernaut. I believe in this coach, I believe in his scheme, and I believe in these players. Time to carry the mf'ing G, ladies and gents.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 09:41 pm
I guess nobody wants to carry the G with me. They'd rather carry Rodgers' stale, ayahuasca water. What a pity.
Since'61
May 11, 2023 at 10:33 pm
This will be my 62nd season as a long distance Packer fan. I've been carrying the G for a long time and I don't expect to stop any time soon. What's the problem? It goes without saying. Thanks, Since '61
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 10:59 pm
What is the problem? That im excited about this team? Shame on me.
Racingdad
May 12, 2023 at 07:00 am
LOVE your excitement as I’m just as excited for a fresh new start !! A qb-1 who WANtS to be here and will follow the coach’s playbook.new fresh players ( love the way gb helped themselves in the draft ) really excited for Jayden reed and the two te’s. I think packers will be a strong team this year and in years to come !! I believe in LOVE !! Gonna be FUN again !!!
Since'61
May 12, 2023 at 07:28 am
I don't think being excited about the team is a bad thing. I was speaking about the carrying the G which is a good thing. Thanks, Since '61
Turophile
May 12, 2023 at 03:38 am
Suggestion. You need to employ paragraphs, to break up a wall of text into bitesize chunks. Take a look at all the articles written here - how many of them are one wall of text - none.
Boneman
May 12, 2023 at 06:25 am
Baloney, I totally agree. It's ridiculous how hyped this Lions team is right now! If their new running back room equals what they did last year I will be shocked and their receiving core has downgraded without Chark and with Williams suspended for 6 games. We've seen what will happen with a rookie LB starting in NFL. Big regression for the Lions and Pack with an overall better offense, book it.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 08:57 am
As someone living in a Lions market, the hype is starting to run rampant....for a team that hasn't been able to get out of its own way for ages. They benefit from the same soft divisional matchups the Packers do, though.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:10 am
Beating us twice to scrape a winning season seems to have them thinking they have arrived as perennial contenders.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:39 am
They drafted as if they feel like they've arrived. They signed some help for their secondary that they're singing about over here, but it's still spotty. I don't think the offense moved forward, and Goff has struggled to play two good years in a row. Their success will be dictated by their ability to stay healthy and dominate in the trenches.
NickPerry
May 12, 2023 at 07:16 am
I happen to share ALL your excitement Baloney. I agree with probably 90% of what you said, maybe more. I think where you lost some of the fine folks here at CHTV is this:
"I believe in this coach,"
I'm thinking many or some don't believe in MLF. As for me I'm willing to give LaFleur a little room to hopefully make up for some of his mistakes from the last few years that make many of us question if MLF is really HC material.
I'll say this...If Barry's Defense is getting smashed, his CBs are lined up 10 yards off, or the run defense looks like a piece of wet 1-ply toilet paper, those who aren't really loving MLF now are going to be out in full force.
BUT, if the offense looks like we had all ho[ped it would look when he was first hired, and it does really take off because they are FINALLY using the entire field, I'm more apt to give LaFleur a little slack moving forward.
Like Since '61...I've been here 63 years, I'm not going ANYWHERE!! I Got that G!!!
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:14 am
I don’t believe in what this coach has delivered. However, I’m open to seeing whether that was due to Rodgers. We are going to see now, but yes, as far as I’m concerned, if LaFleur doesn’t burst from his chrysalis this season, he never will and never was. There’s nothing to obstruct his offensive genius now.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:48 am
He was, frankly, not a prolific OC before being hired. Kinda like Barry, it looked more like trying to fish someone off the "hot" coaching tree (McVay) than a dynamic leader. Whatever the case, this is the wagon the horse is hitched to in 2023, and you're right: we'll either see it all start to come together...or the offensive genius will be exposed. I think if there's a significant fail, that the leash will be short.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 10:04 am
Exactly, Nick.
Give LaFleur a chance! Murphy stuck LaFleur with a narcissistic malcontent at QB1 who was cock blocking his every move as HC.
After year 1 of his tenure and all the insubordination, Rodgers rightly should have had his ass Lombardied outta town on greased rails Draft Day 1, 2021.
None of us have really seen LaFleur’s offense. Now he has the players at every position to run it.
I wouldn’t doubt we wind up with a better record than the Jets at the trade deadline, the Jets request a David Bakhtiari trade, and we tell them to fuck off.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 10:10 am
His leash is this season.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:47 am
The interesting thing is Matt LF 'loves' Aaron Rodgers and is extremely appreciative of everything & all his time with the Packers. Is that just PR talk, or does he mean it? Obviously AR's helped Matt to three - 13 & 3 seasons & a new contract.
I'm with Coldwell & GG about this is the year that LF needs to step up and run his offense to see what he has to offer. Can he do it?
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 09:55 am
Yup.
CheesedDeadHead
May 11, 2023 at 09:02 pm
I disagree with the premise. Not a single OL was drafted this year and the Packers offense will go as far as the OL will carry them. The veteran OL will dictate what the Packers can do offensively more than the current or last years draft class. Hopefully the first team will be healthy heading into training camp and they can spend most of the preseason working on playing as a unit. A key to Love's success is how well he is protected by the OL and how well scheme/blocking will open up running lanes. I am less concerned about the skill positions and their draft status/experience as I am about getting excellent OL line play. Give Love time to pass and a running game that the opposing defense has to respect and even 2nd year/rookies can be productive when given the opportunity.
SicSemperTyrannis
May 11, 2023 at 09:12 pm
We have 2 O linemen at 6'9" that have never taken a snap. Itntl player at 6'8". Hopefully these guys are used as depth, especially with Bakh gone.
A year of surprises ...
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 11, 2023 at 09:31 pm
They're returning their entire starting 5 plus all 3 draft picks from last year. They needed to address other positions and did so in a big way.
T7Steve
May 12, 2023 at 07:44 am
It ALL starts in the lines. The lines on both sides of the ball can make HOFers of who's behind them or get someone cut or traded.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:54 am
CDH,
Gutey was essentially the 'little Dutch boy' in the draft trying to plug all the holes in the dyke. Frankly, I thought he was masterful! Certainly a good OT would have been nice but in reality the OL was probably the best unit on the Packers. They have like 13 OL and a lot of experienced talent. The OL should be talented enough and deep enough this year for the Packers offense & Jordan Love to operate effectively. There are a few young OL who have potential but have not seen the field yet in Jones and Wallace.
Believe we should be okay at OL in 2023 but certainly would not be surprised the team drafts an OL in round 1, or round 2 next year. A good question might be do the Packers have the right OL talent to effectively run LF's offense? What percentage of plays will be run plays vs passing?
Leatherhead
May 11, 2023 at 09:09 pm
I don't think it's going to change much at all. I think we're going to focus on hanging onto the rock and burning the clock. The Packers have led the league in the time used on their average possession three years in a row, and I believe we'll see more of that.
It would be natural to rely on the veteran RBs , but we have to show that we can hurt people with the pass.
Since'61
May 11, 2023 at 10:37 pm
LH, as has always been true for every offensive team, the Packers will go as far as their OL takes them. If we get people blocked our ground game and our passing game will be effective. If we don't get people blocked it will be a cluster fxxk.
Thanks, Since '61
NateK
May 12, 2023 at 01:55 am
Agreed, ‘61; I hope that, during training camp, they can solidify the “top 5” so the OL can synergize it up. It’ll all start with the OL in my opinion.
packerbackerjim
May 12, 2023 at 05:19 am
Cookie Monster, Since ‘61.
NickPerry
May 12, 2023 at 06:35 am
"Overall, this suggests much more focus on the middle of the field, and that’s huge. Aaron Rodgers’ penchant for the perimeter, from short out-routes to deep shots, was limiting, not to mention predictable."
FINALLY... The Packers will have SPEED all over the field. Doubs is more than fast enough to take a slant or crosser for example for a bunch of YAC. We've already seen Watson do it against Philly last season. Just imagine, FINALLY an offense where we have an opportunity to see a possible big play on almost every passing attempt because of the speed on the field.
Musgrave and Kraft are both considered fast for their position and Reed just may turn out to be my favorite pick. That dude IS fast and can make people miss. It's going to be fun!
Racingdad
May 12, 2023 at 07:08 am
Totally agree nick -it’s gonna be fun again
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:06 am
"Reed just may turn out to be my favorite pick."
I think Reed profiles a lot like Amon Ra St. Brown. St. Brown didn't run so well (he only tested at his pro day), but they have a lot of the same traits and similar usage.
4thand10
May 12, 2023 at 12:50 pm
NP… I think he is a 4.3 guy unofficially. I thought i had read somewhere that he was clocked at that on one of his visits
dobber
May 13, 2023 at 11:24 am
Start with the electronically-timed Combine and wink at the unofficial times.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 06:36 am
A whole new Green & Gold Can-O-Whoopass is about to be unleashed upon the NFL this season.
I think the players are excited to do this right. Single vision. Common goal…. For the first time in years.
All the new, young players? They get each other. We are going to see team unity like we haven’t in years.
We fans, along with our players, are in for a serious amount of fun.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 06:47 am
Who is the sad, spineless motherfucker who can’t get behind that?
At least have the balls to argue the point.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:25 am
Makes you take stock when you see that?
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 11:34 am
LOL. Yes. At least, it’s a reminder I just might be living right!!! 🤣
It’s just like within mere seconds of sharing literally anything, down vote! At 6:30 am.
Hence, my call out. That fuckin’ twat.
LambeauPlain
May 12, 2023 at 07:09 am
I agree G&G. The receiving corps and their QB are all going to "grow up" together. Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks (diamond in the rough?), Dubois (dark horse who can run and catch), Musgrave, Kraft, Degurara.
8 athletic, talented receivers full of potential for MLF and the coaching staff to coach up and mix/match their skills as Love leads them on the field. Love is very is talented and athletic too.
What is also important and substantive is the OL and RBs. OL is solid and could be excellent with proven leaders like Bak and Jenks. AJ and AJD are also leaders and prolific in run and pass plays.
STs should again not just be competent, but dynamic and field flippers.
D HAS to step up. If they struggle early, I expect the hook comes for Barry. With 8 first rounders, the expectations for the D are higher than for the Offense or STs. Get it done.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 07:34 am
LP, spot on with the amazingly high number of new players added to this Packers roster.
They’re all readily able to relate to each other.
Imagine being a player. You work hard all off-season or throughout the different camps to do exactly what you’ve been coached to do, and somebody in a position of great power leading the team does things that are the polar opposite of your coach’s instructions.
The Wicked Witch is dead. She won’t win a Super Bowl, nor an MVP. With all the drama sure to ensue in NY, maybe a couple of Tonys.
Not our problem anymore.
I think our current Packer players can’t wait to light it up.
As to the D, the talent infusion is real, and we will very likely see that this season.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 07:01 am
"I think the players are excited to do this right. Single vision. Common goal…. For the first time in years. All the new, young players? They get each other. We are going to see team unity like we haven’t in years."
You mean this year there likely won't be a WR, or TE who doesn't hang out away from the field at least once with QB1 to connect & get to know them better? Or where QB1 will actually come to OTA's to work with them & help them get the offense down & their timing down?
greengold
May 13, 2023 at 07:39 am
There existed a very wide chasm in terms of old & new prior to trading AR out. The generational gap so vast, that that neither could relate to each other.
Love patiently waited for his shot after Rodgers’ extension, and I think that resonated with all the other young players on this team. Aaron Jones alluded to this in his press conference. My guess is that the support for Jordan Love only grew stronger as a result. A measure of respect earned.
This change was inevitable, and came 2-3 years too late.
Now? This team is ready to move forward in a manner I don’t think we’ve seen since Rodgers became the starter. It’s palpable to this fan, and exciting.
Nothing wrong with a solid study of the talents brought into Green Bay, understanding where they were taken, why & how they were added to our team, and coming away from that with enthusiasm for this season & the future.
It takes guesswork. What are LaFleur’s intentions? Barry’s? Bisaccia’s? Gutekunst’s?
What’s cool is we’re about to really, finally find out.
I like how the team dynamics are shifting. Very positive. Same holds true for this team’s new found capabilities, after closer looks at film/resumes.
Seems to me there’s a lot to like.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:33 pm
GG,
Everything you share resonates so closely to my way of thinking. Based on some of your downvotes apparently some others don't agree. Agreed, the change did come 2-3 years too late! This is a new era and I hope the players are excited about the changes as much as you & I are feeling!
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 06:57 am
No matter how you cut it.
The trade down sucked.
Reed wasn't a value pick.
In fact, IMO; the only guys
who will be here in 5 years are
VanEss and Musgrave.
The Money won't be worth the wait.
Gutey is a Free Agents GM.
He will buy;- to replace his failures.
And most of these picks will have to
make the special Teams, to stick.
Slow isn't a threat in the NFL.
And if they don't avoid injury.
They won't stay with the team that drafts them.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 07:02 am
There you are.
What trade down?
Reed was a value pick if what he brings turns out to be the missing piece to successfully run your offensive scheme.
With what money is Gutekunst going to shop FA?
Like your own posts much?
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 07:14 am
Rodgers should not be in the arguments anymore.
This is a different team that has a lot to prove.
Up and down the roster there were changes.
From Amos to new faces on the offense.
Adams, MVS, Cobb, and Lazard all got paid at some point.
You don't replace proven success overnight.
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 08:51 am
As expected, you can’t answer nor defend ONE item YOU YOURSELF brought up. Not one, stockholder.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:44 am
You're arguing with a random-word generator.
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 09:52 am
I defended everything-
Reed was not considered 2nd rd.
Try 3-4. And he still took another late.
We needed a safety to replace those that left.
Gutey went Free Agent.
If you draft a DL late.
Shouldn't that have been the pick to replace Reed?
And if you wanted a WR. Better/higher
rated were on the board.
But I'm going to bring up Cobb.
Even if Reed has some success.
He won't be returning punts long.
Meaning he drafted Amari Cooper
But was hoping for Cobb.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 10:27 am
If the Packers are right, and Reed does have 4.37 speed, he’d have been a draft darling for that reason alone.
Reed is really not very similar to Cobb in style or experience. If you watch film and remember what Cobb’s background was, that’s facially obvious.
The two WRs taken later were a pure X (Wicks) and an X/big slot in DuBose. Unless you count Cotton, we had no X other than Watson. I presume that would trouble you. It did me.
So if Reed comes in and is a success to the point where he won’t return punts and that makes the pick a bad one? That’s possibly the most self defeating corruption of logic you’ve managed in a while.
You just can’t allow yourself to even give these players a chance because that would Jeopardize your narrative that Gute is worse than useless. You won’t even suspend certainty till camp, let alone preseason. Sad and just as pointless.
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 06:58 pm
I agree he isn't Cobb.
But they're hoping he turns out like Cobb.
Point: Any WR that returns punts.
Will not be a PR later. If he gets franchise money.
Thats All. It has nothing to do with a bad pick.
I stated he was the wrong pick. There were better!
Why can't you understand the difference?
dobber
May 13, 2023 at 11:13 am
Cobb was a product of a different offense. I don't expect Reed's usage to be the same. Let Reed be Reed.
LambeauPlain
May 12, 2023 at 07:15 am
I am sure that is the case.
Personally, I could comment "SH has great observations" and I would get a thumbs down.
Getting Reed and two more solid prospects was some mighty fine board work by Gutey.
LambeauPlain
May 12, 2023 at 07:15 am
double post
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 07:47 am
LP, I think Gutekunst worked incredible talent infusions on both sides of the ball - without “reaching.”
Reed is essentially Greg Jennings, if not more. Look at Jennings’ immediate impact upon our Packers, and his importance to our success throughout his tenure here. I think Reed will be even more impactful. Especially with his multiple jet concept offerings. Bo Melton figures in here too, significantly.
And then there’s Dontayvion Wicks. There’s the X WR we needed behind Christian Watson.
Our last pick, Grant DuBose, was more highly regarded than some may realize. He’s a gem who should fit this offense perfectly at Z WR.
https://youtu.be/VCazC0cDUgg
The Packers got thick this draft with a lot of great talents all over to develop. Adding 2 dynamic in-line TEs high adds an entirely new twist. Both great talents with size, speed, hands & proven blocking abilities.
Hell, I’m excited about our Kicker, Anders Carlson! That was a Bisaccia pick all the way, and could very well be one for the ages.
LambeauPlain
May 12, 2023 at 08:00 am
I see many similarities between Reed and Jennings. Both made immediate impacts at W. MI. Both worked diligently on route running. They are the same size. They both run well. Both have good hands. Both can be effective on the perimeter and in the slot. Both very driven to get better. Both 2nd rounders.
It did not take Jennings long to get on the field and stay there. I am expecting big things from Reed.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:18 am
A couple of those WR are either going to end up on the practice squad or out of GB altogether. They carried over Watson--Doubs--Toure--Melton, drafted Reed--Wicks--DuBose. If these guys can be capable gunners, they might keep 6, but likely only 5 active on game days. It's possible they only keep 5. Someone always gets hurt in camp...maybe that allows for an IR stash.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:35 am
Injuries generally strike, so you have to have at least 2 more than you expect to keep. Some will come on quicker than others too. The nice thing about this year is that, other than Reed, it’s going to take one setting camp alight for me to think we couldn’t get any of this year’s crop to the PS if we wanted to. That restocks our pipeline and gives us enough depth for health.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:43 am
Agreed--there are practice squad WR who light up the preseason on most teams most years. We tend to overvalue our guys, but cutdown poachings aren't all that common.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 10:34 am
This season, there’s a good chance that anyone lighting up preseason will be doing it with the QB who will be starting at least in considerable part. That means a lot more in terms of the likelihood of it carrying over into the season.
Good problem to have if a guy like Cotton (since he is Mr.unknown) suddenly starts making plays and building a rapport with Love.
Racingdad
May 12, 2023 at 07:13 am
S H you might just be one of the most negative guys on here !! It’s just sad to be that way I feel sorry for you
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 07:21 am
No I'm being honest.
Since 2010, the mistakes are obvious.
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:21 am
I think Gutekunst must've accidentally scratched his car in the Storheim's parking lot at some point.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:40 am
It took TT a Super Bowl to be grudgingly forgiven and then, shortly after, that was vociferously the position held all along.
jannesbjornson
May 12, 2023 at 10:36 am
Kraft will out-perform Musgrave when the dust settles. Not a deep WR draft to begin with and Reed would have been gone by round four as the quick ,slot type guy. They were flying off the board from rds one-three. He was pegged to the correct placement, meaning a 3-4 pick. The queens over-drafted Addison. Zay Flowers replaces a banged up Hollywood Brown, who was moved before they had to pay/cut him. Teams want these short zone guys, since the safeties cannot rock them any longer on the crosses. I would have snagged Charlie Jones to work the short areas. We will see who has the better career. With the two pick? Tillman or Rice made more sense. This guy is always a draft behind the curve since his first adventure in 2018(2017?). The spotlight is now on Him. If this roster fails to perform, he has to be moved Out. OT was a position that needed a high pick the last three years. The evidence was the O-lines' complete collapse with the musical chairs during the critical Playoff Games. 2019-21. No SB 4 U.
BA4Packers
May 12, 2023 at 07:17 am
Don’t mean to nit pick but I didn’t think Reed was considered slow. His RAS has him as 4.4 but his pro day has him as 4.3. Coupled with Watsons 4.3, Meltons 4.3, Doubs 4.4, Toures 4.4, Musgrave 4.6 and Kraft 4.6 this a one of the fastest receiving rooms in the NFL. The learning curve isn’t Love knowing the offense, he’s been in it for 3+ years, it’s all the new receiving targets seeing the field the same way Love and the coaches see it.
stockholder
May 12, 2023 at 07:31 am
The problem was he wasn't the BPA on the board.
When you take a 3rd WR, it's to replace #1 and #2.
It doesn't matter where you take him.
MVS, Lazard and Driver, were WRs for replacement.
They lost that value in the trading back.
And others that had fallen.
Think how many All-pro fell in the draft.
WE had too many other holes; to guess on Reed.
BA4Packers
May 12, 2023 at 09:22 am
I agree it wasn’t a bpa pick. It was more a fit the needs at that position in the draft. Trading back definately passed up some seemingly quality players for more throws at the dart board. I know nothing about player evaluation so who am I to question. We’ll see in a few years.
jannesbjornson
May 12, 2023 at 11:14 am
He could have used 2024 picks to maneuver into rd six. I would expect two # One picks next draft, unless Rodgers ends up on IR. The kicker doesn't inspire me.
jannesbjornson
May 12, 2023 at 11:03 am
All-PROs are hard to predict. Gonzalez, one, or two of these OTs? This draft was a cluster as far as I'm concerned. I like Kraft, obviously. The #2 pick on Reed was non-sensical when considering your viewpoint, who replaces Watson if he goes down , or Doubs? I wanted Tillman. You wanted Rice. Keeanu Benton was taken the pick before Reed. If he was still there, I believe Gutey takes him. I wanted the trade down for Felix Uzomah and add another pick. No go, when Gutedkunst falls for his guys. If Musgrave stays upright, I like the combo with Tucker Kraft who I believe in and resembles a Gronk type guy. A guy with motivation, dedication, open space running ability and a hard-core attitude. They represent the New Offenses. Vertical push. Musgrave is a big WR in many ways. This allusion to the complex-illusion makes zero sense. This guy is no Bud Wilkerson. If LaFleur trots out those plays again, he should be fired.
greengold
May 13, 2023 at 06:23 am
Both Dontayvion Wicks & Grant DuBose fit the X WR. Depth behind Watson was needed, for sure.
I liked Felix. I liked Tillman. I liked Foskey & Rice over both of them.
I didn’t think we’d stand a chance at Van Ness. Hadn’t studied Wicks & DuBose until after the draft, but, the value appears to be there. High quality offerings taken late. I shouldn’t have to say time will tell… but your not even mentioning them tells me you haven’t reviewed them enough. Watch their lengthily highlights to see what they bring.
Reed. Seems he was a perfect fit situation, QUITE OBVIOUSLY higher on their board.
We’ll see.
jannesbjornson
May 13, 2023 at 09:57 am
WRs rated as two picks are better players than a guy rated from 3rd-4th rds or some Projects that may or may not learn the offense and hold onto the ball. Tillman would have been the #2 WR right off the bat. He could have moved on Charlie Jones in the fourth round and bagged a better WR. He and Marvin Harrison,Jr were the All-Big Ten 1st team selections. They were lucky Mc Carthy reached up for Schnoomaker leaving Kraft available. A guy who should have been the other Two Pick. Better hope Musgrave stays upright. Van Ness was selected to replace Gary. He's always a draft behind the curve.
TKWorldWide
May 12, 2023 at 08:57 pm
On whose board?
dobber
May 13, 2023 at 11:21 am
SH has a 2x3 sheet of plywood hanging in his basement. It was recently whitewashed and now reads: NOT REED.
TKWorldWide
May 14, 2023 at 11:39 am
LOL
greengold
May 13, 2023 at 05:52 am
“The problem was he wasn't the BPA on the board.”
You misspelled “my.”
They’re all guesses.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 07:06 am
SH,
Maybe with time you could be right but at the present you simply do not know. Reed is one hell of a good player, but also a hell of a good person. He is going to be the Swiss Army Knife for the Packers providing so many options. He is going to be that player that injects life into the offense. Mr. Microwave Reed!
I wonder if Reed knows how to throw when on those Jet sweeps? Defenses exercise caution as you do not know whether it will be Reed, or Watson on the Jet sweep? Oh my!
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 09:48 am
Reed did not run at his pro day. The 4.37 was a time cited by the packers as one they measured themselves. When and where was not stated. His RAS score is based upon a time of 4.45.
Melton has the fastest time clocked on this roster, Watson the next. Cotton is a 6’2, 4.37 40 (mystery) guy too.
TKWorldWide
May 12, 2023 at 07:18 am
“Not sold on Musgrave yet”. Of course not! Nobody should be sold on any of the rookies yet! And that can apply to all the young guys on the roster.
Or
Do you mean you don’t think he’ll EVER arrive as a solid (or better) contributor?
dobber
May 12, 2023 at 09:30 am
If he can stay healthy, I think he'll be viewed as a suitable Tonyan replacement by this time next year. TBH, that's a pretty low bar.
Coldworld
May 12, 2023 at 10:47 am
I think he starts out as a good blocking WR. It would be a waste to hold him back trying to make him an all purpose TE first. Let both him and Kraft find a set of things/calls they can execute and get them out there for those and swapped out for others. This mantra that all skill players must do everything before they play is a luxury incompatible with this much youth. No reason why we have to avoid personnel changes now.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 07:09 am
Frankly, starting in year 2 I would be greatly disappointed if Musgrave did not match or exceed Tonyan's yardage & receptions in the 2021 season.
Racingdad
May 12, 2023 at 07:22 am
I believe gb is building something special here !! Gonna be exciting moving forward !! Yes their will be growing pains , but you just gotta LOVE the plan,see the vision,and stick with it. It may take awhile or maybe not but I’m excited to see this young team grow together.
TKWorldWide
May 12, 2023 at 07:53 am
Me too.
I think many GB fans feel exactly the same!
But if the Packers start the season 0 and 2, the reactions will be interesting to say the least.
LambeauPlain
May 12, 2023 at 08:28 am
As we know, it is not how you start, it is how you finish. We are going to need patience with this young team on Offense.
STs and D however, need to hit the ground running. If they do, I think the Packers can bridge over to being a very competitive team.
TKWorldWide
May 12, 2023 at 09:31 am
Also agree!
T7Steve
May 12, 2023 at 08:31 am
0 and 2 getting your buts handed to you is different than 0 and 2 and losing a close game while young guys are learning.
As long as they come out ready and play the first game like it's not the 4th preseason game, it's a win.
TKWorldWide
May 12, 2023 at 09:00 pm
Good point.
I think lots of us here are willing to be “patient’. Just wondering how that might look when tested..
greengold
May 12, 2023 at 10:30 am
Totally agree, Racingdad. This has the looks of something really special for 2023 and beyond.
Don’t sleep on Wicks & DuBose, my friends! Wow!!!
Do yourselves a favor: watch their highlights, and, imagine. Watch DuBose signaling to his QB at the line, sometimes telling him where he wants the ball.
Toughness. Size. Speed. Hands. Routes. Separation. Contested catch. YAC.
Grant DuBose will surprise many. Wicks too. Then add Reed to this mix? My God! What a treasure chest of WR talent Gutekunst has assembled in the Packers’ WR Room.
Watson
Doubs
Toure
Melton
Reed
Wicks
DuBose
I think all 7 make this 2023 roster, with Watts on the PS.
Jordan Love has weapons. Wow.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 13, 2023 at 06:20 am
Great write up Jonathan!
Very much liked how you dissected the offense and the role some of these young receivers will add at different spots on the field. The team has the chance now after years of not doing so to fully utilize the whole field keeping defenses honest. With Jordan making his progressions and throwing on time to all areas of the field this offense could be very fun to watch.