Hello Wisconsin: Packers Have a Strong Draft, and Yes That’s the Only News of the Week
Tim's special post-draft edition of Hello Wisconsin focuses on the draft, which was the only real bit of Packers news this past week.
By TimBackes
[Welcome to this special post-draft edition of my in-season column, Hello Wisconsin!]
It was unequivocally a great weekend to be a Packer fan!
The Packers addressed a ton of areas of immediate need in the draft, something they generally failed to do in a 2020 draft that remains mysterious for so many reasons.
Their first-round pick, Eric Stokes, is an elite athlete and a strong cornerback prospect who played high-caliber football against outstanding competition in the SEC. He was a shut-down corner at the college level, has blazing speed and should complement Jaire Alexander nicely if he lives up to his potential.
There was certainly no other breaking news on the first day of the draft that overshadowed the selection of this promising young player out of Georgia!
The second day of the draft saw the Packers take home two more players who should be immediate contributors: center Josh Myers out of Ohio State and slot receiver Amari Rodgers out of Clemson. Myers is ostensibly the replacement for Corey Linsley and has a strong college pedigree, and Rodgers might be the most exciting pick of the draft for the Packers, as he gives them something they’ve been lacking for several years: a bona fide slot receiver who can play all over the field.
It was great to be able to focus solely on these two selections, and no other Packer news that continued to develop on the Friday of the draft!
The final day of the draft is always a crapshoot, but it’s where great teams really make their hay. The Packers obtained more depth along the offensive line, and looked to other areas of need: defensive line, inside linebacker and depth cornerback, before ending the draft with the selection of an exciting young running back who could have easily been taken two or three rounds earlier.
Upon completion of the draft, Packer fans were able to bask in the afterglow of a sensible, promising draft without any other nonsense that could potentially tear the fanbase apart, unlike what happened in 2020.
I’m excited to see what this class is capable of. While I understood the logic behind certain individual picks in the 2020 draft, the entire approach general manager Brian Gutekunst and company used in the draft as a whole remains mystifying to me. Though some armchair scouts might quibble with the individual selections the Packers took this year, there’s certainly no mystery with regard to the approach Gutekunst used this year. These selections were almost entirely needs based.
These rookies will be fortunate to walk into a fantastic situation in Green Bay, an idyllic small town where there is currently little media attention and nothing that could potentially cause a locker room schism, ensuring they will have an easy, successful transition to professional football.
CheeseheadTV Live Draft Party was a blast!
I had a great time on the CheeseheadTV live draft party this past weekend. I stuck around for the entirety of Thursday evening and was around for the first hour or so of Friday, and it was fun listening to all the banter surrounding the draft, the “other” Packer news happening, and football in general.
I was particularly impressed at the host of guests Nagler managed to attract to the event. Some really heavy hitters in there. AJ Dillon, David Bakhtiari, Will Blackmon, TJ Lang and Jace Sternberger represented the players, and there were media members like Rob Demovsky, Rachel Hopmayer, Baille Burmeister, Annie Agar and, of course, Andy Herman. Really great lineup of knowledgeable and fun folks.
I think my favorite insight from the weekend, and I mentioned this on Friday, came from Lang.
TJ was talking about some of the differences between playing with the Packers and playing with Detroit. He specifically noted the difference in mindset in the two locker rooms. With Green Bay, the expectation was that you would win the division and compete for championship football. With Detroit, he said the locker room and coaches would consider a successful season beating your divisional opponents.
The stakes and the expectations were noticeably lower in Detroit, he said, something that permeated the locker room.
To me, it’s really eye-opening to hear that coming from an actual player. Obviously you see that in the fan base--fans of certain teams are going to have naturally lower expectations because, even from a position of relative bias, they can see if their team sucks.
But the fact that this was an accepted mindset in Detroit, even when the Lions had a winning record in his first year there, is really surprising, even when you consider the team’s long history of losing. Obviously, we see the results that have come from that sort of mindset, but to hear an actual player essentially say one team simply didn’t care as much about success as another, that’s a bit jarring.
It also makes me further appreciate the Packers and their success over the last few decades. I think we’d all like to see at least a couple more Lombardis out of this run, but can you imagine being a Lions fan? Good lord.
Wisconsin Beer of the Week
It’s always great to be able to welcome a new brewery to the Milwaukee area, and I’m extremely excited about everything that is to come from Supermoon Beer Company, based in Milwaukee’s Bay View neighborhood.
This new nano brewery has only put out a couple beer releases so far, spaced months apart, and I’m still waiting for an announcement for their next release. But if the first couple beers I’ve had from them are any indication, they’re going to quickly become big-time players in the Milwaukee craft beer market, competing with favorites of mine like 1840 Brewing Company and Eagle Park Brewery.
I was able to get my hands on a bottle of their beer Launchdown, a farmhouse style raspberry beer. As you can see from the photo, it’s got a gorgeous reddish pinkish hue to it with beautiful transparency. The beer itself was just as crisp as it looks.
Supermoon’s thing is making beer that takes a long time to age, much like 1840 Brewing. This particular beer had a 16-month production time before release, ensuring some really complex flavors.
The brewers blended together a few mixed fermentation saisons, aged that blend in French oak barrels, and then added a heap of red and black raspberries. The result is an oaky, aged, sour flavor you’d expect from a really great aged farmhouse beer, with a perfectly balanced berry flavor that is just sweet enough to help balance out that sourness. This isn’t a fruited sour that’s going to have an overpowered fruit flavor--it’s a balanced work of art.
If you have never before tried an oak-aged saison or farmhouse beer I’d strongly recommend you give it a shot. In some ways the experience resembles drinking a good wine. Even if fruit flavor in beer isn’t your thing, you can find plenty of aged saisons without fruit added that introduce you to the bright, funky flavor that characterizes them.
Okay, fine, let’s talk Rodgers
Alright, I suppose I can’t get any farther into this column without addressing the elephant in the room, so let’s get to it.
I’m currently writing this section of this column on Tuesday morning for a Thursday morning publication, so God only knows what fresh hell will be unleashed upon us in the 48 hours to follow (I’ll update this section if I feel like there’s anything worth noting that changes my mind), but it really does appear we’re heading for a second consecutive ugly divorce from a Hall of Fame franchise quarterback.
As I mentioned on Twitter a few days ago, this whole thing feels like we’re speedrunning the Summer of Favre. Constant leaks, people in the fanbase taking sides, the sudden realization that a seemingly untouchable player might actually be traded… this all feels very familiar to those of us old enough to remember the Summer of 2008.
The thing that feels most different to me about all this so far is that while in 2008 I’d argue the majority of Packer fans took Brett Favre’s side against Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy, this time it feels like the opposite is true--at least for those fans old enough to remember that summer 13 years ago. Most polls I’ve seen put the fanbase heavily in the Packers’ corner this time, even if most fans realize that both sides share some blame in the deterioration of this relationship.
I think this is because, for some of us at least, the Favre drama still feels somewhat fresh. We saw it played out, we went through all the emotions, we came out of it okay.
Frankly I just don’t have the patience or emotional investment to go through all of it again.
Ultimately, it boils down to this for me. Aaron Rodgers’ feelings are valid; if you’re a high-performing employee who is of incredible value to your employer, you can probably expect to be given at least a little bit more input into how things are run. It seems Packers leadership failed to properly manage that relationship in many ways over an extended period of time.
That being said, the Packers are under absolutely no obligation to get approval from Rodgers for certain decisions, and some of the choices the Packers made that allegedly angered Rodgers were undeniably correct.
(Jake Kumerow? Really? Come on, dude.)
Rodgers has every right to be upset, and of course, we do not have access to the whole story. But the reports that have come out over the last week or so really only serve to make him look like a petulant child.
Here’s a man who goes on Pat McAfee to complain about how the media is always putting words in his mouth, but then he sits back and lets the drama unfold when this situation arises.
He spent an entire last year talking about how he’d accepted that his future is out of his hands, that he had achieved some level of zen, was enjoying his career more than ever and wanted to be a Packer for the rest of his life. But his apparent actions and desires as reported make all of that appear to be a bunch of bunk.
To me, that’s what’s most disappointing out of all of this. Rodgers’ reported demands and actions are so far removed from the way he has portrayed himself over the last year. I guess I expected he really had learned from the Favre situation. Maybe he did--just the wrong lessons.
Look, the way things were shaking out, 2021 was probably going to be Rodgers’ last year in Green Bay anyway, given the contract situations. If the relationship is truly impossible to repair at this point, the Packers need to bite the bullet and trade him while he’s at his maximum value. Rip off the bandaid a year early. Or, at the very least, play hardball and make him pay back his contract while he sits out.
Jordan Love might not be ready, but Gutekunst and Murphy put themselves into this position, almost certainly knowing this could be a possible outcome, even if they didn’t think it particularly likely. On the other hand, Love might turn out to be the Packers’ next great quarterback and once again this all becomes a moot point, as it did with Rodgers. But if not, both Gutekunst and Murphy will be out of a job within three years and their names will be cursed for the rest of time in the Packer fandom.
I hate that things are ending this way, but this time around I refuse to get emotionally invested in the outcome. Aaron Rodgers’s time with the Packers was, whether we like it or not, already running out. We’re just going to have to accept that we’re getting plunged into uncertainty earlier than we might have liked.
Where there’s smoke…
There’s a tendency among a subset of sports fans to excoriate members of sports media when they report on things they don’t like.
Over the last couple years, any times there were rumblings of dissatisfaction or any kind of bad blood between Rodgers and the Packers, fans would immediately shout down these reports as being made up or exaggerated.
But there has been a pattern now for several years of these types of reports. None of the reports that came out ever indicated the team and its star could be heading for a messy divorce, but there were still signs of trouble that many Packer fans (myself included) dismissed as being hearsay or unreliable reporting.
I think it’s worth reflecting on this and once again noting that the vast majority of sports journalists (we’re talking legitimate journalists, not talking heads) don’t just make stuff up. Their reporting is well sourced, and there are strong editorial standards they must meet for publication.
Sure, there are some reporters whose words you should take with a grain of salt. But the next time you write an angry Twitter response to a journalist over a Packers-related story, consider this: what is your motivation? Is it just an emotional response because you don’t like the news?
Because there have been reporters who have been on this story for a while now, dropping little crumbs of it here and there, and today they get to say “I told you so.”
A promising springtime in Wisconsin
As much as I might be frustrated with the Rodgers news, it at least hit at a good time of year. There’s months to go until football season, and the weather is finally warming up here in Wisconsin as the leaves return and the promise of summer is on the horizon.
Last year at this time, there was a whole lot of uncertainty as to what the summer (and the future in general) would look like. This year, there’s a lot more reason for hope. More and more people are getting vaccinated, things are opening back up, there are going to be plenty of outdoor events to attend… it feels like people are going to take full advantage of the few months of nice weather we get after a year-plus of being mostly cooped up.
My sheepshead group got together for the first time since last February a couple weeks ago, and that was so needed. With the weather finally cooperating, my toddler has been enjoying more trips to the playground, and my twins are enjoying rolling around on the blanket out in the backyard.
As frustrating as the Rodgers saga can be, it’s hard to let it get the best of me when the sun is shining and I’m getting back out into the world, connecting with friends and family I haven’t seen in some time, and preparing to enjoy everything that comes with summertime in MIlwaukee.
Current team needs
Gutekunst and company did a great job of addressing some immediate needs during the draft, but there are still some spots on the team that need to be addressed before the 2021 season begins.
The obvious position is quarterback. If Rodgers isn’t coming back, the Packers can’t just roll into the season with Jordan Love and an undrafted free agent. There are some available veterans on the market that could fill in in a pinch if Love truly isn’t ready yet. Of course, at this point, none of the options are exactly the kind of player you can expect to carry you to a playoff season.
Of the available free agents, I’d say the best bet is probably Blake Bortles. Bortles showed some flashes in his years in Jacksonville (where he worked with Nathaniel Hackett) and then held a clipboard for the Rams. He’s not a long-term solution, but at least he’s got a bit of talent and could win you a couple games.
Otherwise, the team could always go with a familiar face in Brett Hundley! Kidding…
Outside of quarterback, the biggest glaring need to me is punter. At the very least, the Packers need to bring in some competition for J.K. Scott, who stunk it up last year and was fortunate the Packers had to punt as infrequently as they did. If Scott comes into camp and is booming the ball all over the place with consistency, then great. But the team needs to start looking elsewhere.
It’s not entirely clear yet who will be the Packers’ return specialist. With Tyler Ervin and Jamaal Williams both gone, there’s a void in that position. I’d figure Amari Rodgers will probably get a crack at it. Jaire Alexander has returned punts before, and Chandon Sullivan has also been placed on return duty. Rookie running back Kylin Hill could be in the mix.
Whoever the Packers put back there, they just need to be reliable with catching the ball and gaining a few positive yards.
Finally, there are a few positions where the team could use more depth, and defensive line is, to me, the one that stands out. I’m just not a fan of once again trotting out Dean Lowry and Tyler Lancaster as your primary rotational d-line players next to Kenny Clark. TJ Slaton will get playing time, but at the moment he’s really the only new face to a group that has been a team weakness for several years.
Now what?
The draft is over. It’s uncertain what offseason training activities will look like with the latest drama between the league and the NFLPA. There’s not going to be any kind of resolution to the Rodgers situation until at least June 1.
So for now… we wait.
The uncertainty of what’s to come for the Packers can be a bit frightening, especially for those of us who are lucky enough to only have experienced winning football in our lifetimes. I’m going to be 33 in May, and my entire football consciousness is defined by Hall of Fame quarterback play and championship contention.
But I had already come to terms with the idea that the ride was going to come to an end sooner than later, likely after the 2021 season. Like it or not, some of the so-called “desired timelines” (as Rodgers put it) have shifted, and we may be plunging into the unknown sooner than expected.
It’s more likely than not that this is the end of the Packers’ three decades of top-flight quarterback play. But regardless of what happens, I’ll be there every Sunday caring way too much about the dudes in green and yellow.
Endings are inevitable. Uncertainty can be hard. But if this truly is the transition into the next era of Packer football, then I am ready to accept that.
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Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
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Comments (108)
Fabio
May 06, 2021 at 06:21 am
Nice article TIM !!
I can agree on almost everything except two things:
1) Kumerow is a bigger problem than it seems. The fact is that Rodgers was not clearly informed of his willingness to let JK go. If he had known he would have spoken differently and would not have looked like a shit he did. (once again lack of communication with him)
2) The choice on Rodgers had to have already been made before the draft in order to start rebuilding this season by also focusing on draft picks that are certainly higher than those we will receive now. And this is a VERY serious management flaw!
Congratulations on the TIM articles
I always read to you very willingly
porupack
May 06, 2021 at 06:21 am
>>>> fans would immediately shout down these reports as being made up or exaggerated.<<<<<
Hey, you just stepped on my toes. That's me.
>>>>But the next time you write an angry Twitter response to a journalist over a Packers-related story, consider this: what is your motivation? Is it just an emotional response because you don’t like the news?<<<<<
Well, good question. I guess I try to assume the best in people, so I discount rumors. But, you are very justified in saying it.....go ahead, I'm ready....."I told you so". Yup, you told me so. Good article btw. Fully agree all points on the Rodgers-Gute situation. Gute mismanaged, and wasn't near proactive enough before and during and after drafting Love. But Rodgers is blowing his reputation and legacy.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:35 am
Alternative theory: Rodgers realized his leverage would never be higher, decided he didn’t like the contract he’d agreed to and might well be able to get more years guaranteed than a rational team would. Decided to throw the team and everyone else under the bus to get it. Yo do so required such tenuously believable minor grievances because, well, he really doesn’t have much of a legitimate basis for his mercenary position and doesn’t have confidence he will have the same leverage in future (with what that implies for his expected standard of play). Gute, Kumerow and the rest are just red herrings to window dress. Just plausible enough with his thin skin reputation but not actually credible for a non sociopath to feel the claimed hurt.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 11:27 am
I like that theory.
Fabio
May 06, 2021 at 03:02 pm
I think a lot of what you say may be true. Problem is, our GM had to know that Ar was going to do this. You know it, I know (in Italy), the whole NFL knows that Gute couldn't not know. The tragedy is that he has no planned exit plan and for the Packers this is the only thing that matters. We can look as much as we want at how bad AR is, but the problem is who had to handle the situation and wasn't able to.
jurp
May 06, 2021 at 06:34 pm
Rodgers has become a douche, I think. He's obviously behind the "leaks" (if not, he would've repudiated them). We need to trade his ass to Denver for Bridgewater, at least one first round pick and a second round pick and move on. He's toxic.
And I hope that we meet the Broncos in the next Super Bowl and destroy them.
NickPerry
May 06, 2021 at 06:40 am
The Packers did have an excellent draft IMO, they addressed areas of need without really reaching on any pick. They also managed 2 absolute steals, at least IMO with the selections of CB Shemar Jean-Charles and RB Kaylin Hill. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if Jean-Charles is our slot CB at some point this season. He was one of the highest rated college football players by PFF in 2020. Yes it was at App State, BUT the kid does have skills and the Packers have one hell of a secondary coach in Gray.
Tim, the picks from the 2020 draft class will definitely make more sense to you THIS year. Like it or not MLF WATS to run the ball MORE. With the 3 O-Linemen picked last year and the 3 picked this year, the Packers are building a hell of an O-Line. BIG, ATHLETIC linemen to go with Bakh and Jenkins. The O-Line is going to be a very strong point of this year for years to come. NOW, insert AJ Dillon behind that line and last years 2nd makes a whole lot more sense. Yes, Jones is the starter but I can wait to see what MLF schemes up while having Jones, Dillon, Adams, Amari Rodgers, and Tonyon on the field at the same time....Even with Love at QB..
Speaking of Love...
I'm so tired of the drama with Rodgers right now. I NEVER thought I'd say this, but I think I'd rather trade him June 1st to Vegas, Miami, or Denver if that's even possible. Rodgers isn't going to a NFC team, unless Seattle wants to trade Wilson for Rodgers straight up...Hmmmm....
Bottom line is IF he's really that unhappy here playing for a team who was 26-6 and has one of the best young HC in the game right now scheming up plays, TRADE his ass for a fortune of picks and players. There's another GM out there like Bill O'Brian and I think they reside in Vegas. IMO Gruden would do just about anything to get Rodgers. Lets see what anything looks like.
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 07:36 am
"The Packers did have an excellent draft IMO, they addressed areas of need without really reaching on any pick."
The funny part is that many of those people who were pounding the table for the Packers to "fill needs" through the draft and not draft for the future are now pounding the table saying, "not those needs! THESE needs!" I think it many cases, it's people wanting to have their opinions of the franchise affirmed.
A 53-man roster is never static, it's always evolviing, and with a change in DC, even more so. Any draft is a draft for the future...even an early pick is no guarantee to step in an play right away. They might not be matured enough mentally (ready to do the work of a pro), or they might not be physically ready to take on 28-year-old "old man muscle". Even here, people were saying that throwing Love to the wolves if ARod went down last year could ruin him...or that putting a rookie CB out there opposite Alexander would be too hard. But then they complain when the Packers don't draft plug-and-play bodies.
" Like it or not MLF WATS to run the ball MORE"
I think what LaF wants is to run the ball whenever he WANTS to run the ball, not necessarily more (although it's consistently true that playoff teams tend to run the ball more--and more effectively--than non-playoff teams). Over the last 2 seasons with 13-3 teams, the Packers ran the ball a little more than league average. The NFL is a passing league. It's not going back to the 60s or 70s. Good teams need to be able to move the ball both ways, and being able to run effectively when you want to run the ball will take the heat off any QB and place it squarely on opposing DCs.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:48 am
I thought it was an excellent draft conceptually, adapted to unusual circumstances and marrying utility now with potential at positions with the opportunity to provide maximum upside given the nature of the draft pool. As to the OL, it’s clear there is a plan to reshape that and I will let that become clearer. That wax my only minor surprise/doubt.
I asked for a draft that had contribution this year as a major consideration. I got it, if mostly not from picks I expected. Great draft for our then current situation in terms of approach. Let’s hope that translates to the field.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 01:11 pm
I very much agree with you and felt the same way. I wanted the Packers to add instant contributors who were effective, with zero injury history, and ascending production in our greatest areas of need.
Yeah! They surprised, AGAIN, with how they went about the task, but, it looks like they did just that. Unexpected was my feeling as well.
I did think it was possible they would hit CB, C and WR. Wanted ILB, DT and WR, myself, or a double DT to take the two best off the top. That looks to possibly have been over drafting, unless it was Barmore, McNeill... maybe. I felt our needs there were that big.
Slaton was a good choice at 173.
I'm thrilled with what they did. Last year, the only player I guessed correctly was Deguara.
jurp
May 06, 2021 at 06:40 pm
It was like Gutekunst was drafting for a different QB, wasn't it? I think Rodgers is toast in GB.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 11:31 am
Run more, pass less.
That means spending draft picks on blockers and runners, not WRs. Which is kind of what we’ve done.
NickPerry
May 07, 2021 at 06:00 am
You've been saying it since MLF was hired.
Irish_Cheesehead
May 06, 2021 at 10:55 am
Would love to see Wilson in MLF's system.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 12:06 pm
Love is better
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 07:00 am
Tim, I appreciate what you’ve shared here. All very well said. In my attempt to stay away from QB talk until this is resolved, I’ll say this draft appears solid for the Packers. A number of needs were addressed, though I was disappointed with the ILB selection of Isaiah McDuffy in R6... 220. That is saying something, when the 2nd to last pick is the one I’m calling into question...
Then I thought about it more, researched him a bit, watched some highlights fwiw. The guy was most likely chosen as a ST specialist, being a tackling machine, which we did need. Barry is a LB guy, and maybe they see something in him they really like. I was PINING for someone else who could cover TEs in the middle of the field.
You brought up the question at returner, which I had considered a GLARING need position. Amari Rodgers is good there, and should prove reliable. Had some notes on a guy who wasn’t drafted, who may actually pay big dividends there. I posted this in the now buried UDFA thread, but I’d like to share this here so more people can see some stuff on this kid:
GEM ALERT: S Christian Uphoff - Illinois St. 6-2 210
Uphoff has the goods. I've read up on his experiences prior to his pro day, injuring his hamstring 3 weeks beforehand. Two weeks later he still couldn't run on it. When he did run his 4.6, it was outside, on grass, in a driving cold rain.
He said he is easy 4.4 speed, and that timed speed just wasn't to be prior to the draft for him. He's got the size, super long, and understandably, patterned his game after Jeremy Chinn, 6-3 221 out of the same conference at Southern Illinois. Chinn ran a 4.45.
IF... by some chance, Christian is healthy when he hits camp, do not be surprised if he winds up challenging for a starting spot at some point. He really has the look of a great S with ball skills, good movement and good hands. The guy can blitz the QB too. (Read more recent statements that his hammy is 100% healed now).
At the Senior Bowl he was chosen as the Top Safety for the whole week, ahead of one of MY draft crush, Divine Deablo R3, - who I really liked- Damar Hamlin R6 and Tre Norwood R7.
When COVID hit, his season was cancelled and he had no Senior tape for the draft. Add in what happened at his Pro Day, and he slipped through the cracks, for sure. Pro scouts were like, "See ya!" The Packers caught him.
He's also a very solid KR specialist with a 26.1 avg on returns. He was a full-time starter just in his Junior season where he had 2 INT and 19 PD. He wanted to play for the Packers, and it looks like they may have uncovered a real gem at FS. Willing tackler and the guy has some size. Able to move, change direction, great range. WOW.
Uphoff has a body type very similar to Allen Lazard, but with more speed, and what seems like more ease in his hip movements - which appear slippery or elusive. Easily able to make cuts with fluid transitions. I can see why he was so coveted by other teams post draft.
Maybe Gutekunst is a better poker player than we give him credit for. With that 4.6 and no tape, I bet he thought no one would draft him and felt strongly he could sign him UDFA. Hell, Packers scouts KNOW that part of their back yard, as they have proven often. I fully expected them to draft a S for Joe Barry's D, a tall, fast ILB/S tweener, and was disappointed they had passed on all of them. I get it now.
I'm telling you, friends. When you see him, you'll know. CHRISTIAN UPHOFF. Mark it down.
PS. I was in the draft party all 3 nights, and Nagler, Beinke, Al, all the CHTV staff crushed it. That was super fun. Many thanks for doing that! The special guests rocked too.
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 07:39 am
I think you're right on: Uphoff and Vernon Scott both can help provide depth in the secondary with Raven Greene gone. Both are capable (or will be with seasoning) of allowing Barry to use his safeties pretty interchangeably, and do allow a S to walk up into the slot as needed to cover a TE/RB/WR. I think 3-safety looks will continue to be the norm in this Fangio-based defense.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 09:08 am
Going into this draft, knowing we weren’t keeping Raven Greere, who just signed w TB, knowing Barry’s D calls for a good ILB/S hybrid who can cover in middle, I expected they would add one of the best. Wanted Deablo for his similar stature, size, speed, but see now Gutekunst pretty much stole Uphoff in UDFA.
Good.
He’s an experienced KR too. His first 4 KR averaged better than 41 yds each!
If he turns out to be anything close to Jeremy Chinn, the Packers filled that spot nicely.
Uphoff has size, plays with great speed, is good in coverage and can range all day.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 12:04 pm
In addition to Scott, I’m curious to see more of Black in camp. We know he can tackle.
Fabio
May 06, 2021 at 03:13 pm
I agree. I'm very curious to see how this season will be
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 03:09 pm
I think we’ll see 3 safeties, three corners, and 4 pass rushers a lot. And Superman, of course.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 06:11 pm
I believe "The Butler" when he said Savage should be the "Star" guy. He has the acumen and push King to FS, get him away from the perimeter Wr and the stop-n-go routes.
Scott has a feel for the slot blitz, so Barry could go with two down low in some scenarios and work the QB's
brain a bit before he launches.
porupack
May 07, 2021 at 06:49 am
Great contribution there, Greengold. I know I'm late, but.... it was gold alright.
egbertsouse
May 06, 2021 at 06:40 am
Good article. I think I’ve needled you once or twice in the past but I appreciate what you people do. It isn’t easy to hang your opinions out there and let self-anointed experts like me take shots at it. Thanks.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 06, 2021 at 06:56 am
@Leatherhead
I saw your reply on a thread a couple of articles ago and started laughing out loud. I spilled a little coffee but i got it out. Not quite acceptance, but the laughter was good.
Wouldn't this be one heck of a story: AR gets traded to Denver, Love is very good and GB and Denver meet in the super bowl?
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 07:12 am
With Eric Stokes getting a pick six on a tipped ball by Tedarrell Slaton FOR THE WIN!!!
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 07:39 am
The media would love it.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 10:56 am
I’m glad I was able to get a laugh. That’s one of my missions in life. I’m the guy who tries to make somebody snort milk at the lunch table.
Too many people are still at Anger/Blame. The Author of this article was 100% correct when he said that 2021 was probably Rodgers last year (unless we win the Super Bowl). Love was drafted to be our starting QB and the rest is details about option years and salary caps.
It’s going to happen a year ahead of schedule. The rancor and recriminations are unnecessary and unproductive. Just Accept It.
I wish Rodgers well in Denver, or wherever. I hope we get some legitimate gems in return and I hope Surtain is at the top of the list
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 06:26 pm
You are the Guru.
jurp
May 06, 2021 at 06:49 pm
I feel that the trade to Denver is all done and dusted - just waiting for June 1st to announce it (it probably happened just before the draft). We'll get Bridgewater and some draft picks, which is why we're light on QBs at the moment.
Sure hope I'm right - I've liked Teddy since he was a Viking, and a decent veteran QB is always a good thing as insurance. Look what happened when AR broke his collarbone the second time (Seneca effing Wallace? Really TT?)
And then Love outplays AR in the SB and we destroy Denver. I love me some irony.
Archie
May 06, 2021 at 07:09 am
Drafting for need is always a mistake.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 07:13 am
Every. Team. Drafts. For. Need.
blacke00
May 06, 2021 at 08:36 am
GG
You are absolutely right!
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 03:00 pm
If I’m building a fence, I’d get some lumber, some screws, a couple of posts and some cement. Maybe some paint.
I don’t come home with a bunch of plywood that was a better value. Because that won’t build the fence I want.
So I’m going to have to disagree that drafting/getting what you need is always a mistake. I think it’s more like the opposite: Get what you need.
porupack
May 07, 2021 at 06:54 am
Sterling quality output LHead. I just snorted my breakfast milk.
jurp
May 06, 2021 at 06:50 pm
Dumbass of the day.
Archie
May 06, 2021 at 07:20 am
You can end this impasse with Rodgers by simply adding a clause to his existing contract that states the Packers will pay AR $100 MM if they trade or cut him before 2023 season is concluded. Rodgers gets his security and the Packers get Rodgers and it costs them nothing extra. This is so obvious it also makes obvious that the Pack does not want to commit to Rodgers through the 2023 season. So trade him and the sooner the better. Get 3 #1s and a quality player. Maybe Houston would want him.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 12:05 pm
Way to gamble our future on injury or decline. That should get a front office cleaned out.
10ve 💚
May 06, 2021 at 10:40 am
To me it would seem to be more than that.
AR wants to play waaaaaay beyond 2023. If he stays in GB till then, he would be a free agent and can move on. However, he knows that he would probably be playing at a much lower level, and the probability of landing a lucrative gig elsewhere will go down.
So, he may be wanting that large new contract NOW!
But its all speculation ...
flackcatcher
May 06, 2021 at 11:42 am
Huh. When did Mike McCarthy become tradable currency... :-)
Turophile
May 06, 2021 at 12:31 pm
It was unequivocally an awful weekend to be a Packer fan!
Instead of spending yet another high pick on a DB (How many first or second round picks have been used there in the last 6 years) the Packers could have addressed the lines.
Taken down at picks 38-41 were DL Christian Barmore, OT Teven Jenkins and DE Levi Onwuzurike, all much better picks, imo, because there were lots of good cornerbacks to be had later. The Packers could have taken any of the above at #29 or tried to trade down 8-9 spots and still got any one of them.
In round 2, I didn't hate the Myers pick, but OT Brady Christensen was still on the board and so was DL Milton Williams.
In round 3 (pick 92) C Quinn Meinerz could be had, or CB Elijah Molden and Ifeatu Melifonwu (see what I mean about good corners later in the draft).
I think a first three rounds of Teven Jenkins, Milton Williams and Elijah Molden would have been leagues better than who they did pick.
Alternatively, so would Onwuzurike, Christensen, Meinerz and a CB in the mid-rounds, like Wilson, Brown, or Taylor, plus another CB, Tay Gowan, with their second 6th round pick. Am I delusional ? Maybe. The only way to really know is to fast-forward a couple of years and see how the actual draftees stack up against my choices.
So although it is very un-Packer-like to disrespect the choices that were actually made, I do. Some times the draft aligns nicely with who you want and it all seems easy, other times guys you want keep going off the board just before your pick, and the runs on certain positions happen just at the WRONG time for you and it is a grim struggle. This had the feel of a struggle draft and less-than-optimum picks.
For anyone that wishes to save my choices to throw back at me in a couple of years, here is a post-draft mock where I chose not to trade up in round 3, and only chose players that were still available at each pick
1) DE Levi Onwuzurike
2) OT Brady Christensen
3) CB Ifeatu Melifonwu
4a) DT Daviyon Nixon
4b) WR Ihmir Smith-Marsette
5a) ILB Cameron McGrone
5b) WR Cornell Powell
6a) CB Tay Gowan
6b) S James Wiggins
7) RB Kylin Hill (the Packers actually did take him. I also liked RB Jermar Jefferson if you want to see a different pick than the Packers made.
The biggest difference between my draft and the Packers is that I addressed the D line twice in the first 4 rounds and got a better OT in Christensen.
Time for a lot of thumbs down for my post. I understand, you all WANT to like the picks the Packers made. So do I.............I just find that hard this year.
PS Still gave Tim a like (actually 2 likes, it would seem, CHTV glitch ?) for the sheer volume of content he put out.
Razer
May 06, 2021 at 08:25 am
I won't down vote you for outlining your value in this draft. I too wanted D-line help. I too wanted us to trade out of the first round and pick up some extra 2nd and third round picks. We might have been able to pick up CB Stokes somewhere in the second and still had ammo to get a tackle or D-lineman.
What I realize is that the draft is an in-the-moment thing and plans/strategies are fluid. It is not so much what you want or need - it is who is available at your time. Maybe nobody wanted to trade up 'bad enough' to give Green Bay a decent deal to trade back. Maybe your man was taken 3 picks before your turn.
I was frustrated watching guys come off the board 5 and 6 picks before us, picking at the bottom but that is what 13-3 gets you. The reality is that you MUST make the best pick possible at your time AND you don't know what the following 32 picks will leave you when your turn comes around. The other thing I realize is that when you make a pick - you all but eliminate 32 players.
Based on what Gutekunst said after the draft, I think that they were looking at a linebacker and when Collins and Jamin Davis came off the board early our board looked different. Just my sense.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 10:03 am
This is so well put, Razer. I didn’t knock him either, as none of us knows how the Packers think on any of those players. I only relayed info I learned, but who knos.
Doubt HIGHLY Stokes would have lasted to the #40 mark.
As for the value of having 10 choices, Look at the Day 3 gems we may have realized with the Slaton, Jean-Charles and the Hill picks!
THAT’s why I didn’t want Gutekunst to trade too much. I’m very good with his exchange of 92 and 135 to snap Amari Rodgers with the 85, as he was widely considered an R2. I know Athlon had both Myers and Rodgers rated higher than the slots we took them at, both R2.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 09:51 am
Onwuzurike - gets pushed around too easy
Christensen - already at his ceiling
Melifonwu - allows FAR TOO MANY catches in front of him
Nixon - so many undisclosed issues Belichick passed on him all the way though
Those were the knocks on the first 4, and I can see why the Packers stayed away from all of them. I’m right with you on wanting the lines addressed, and, THE PACKERS DID! Thing is, they went with the strength of the draft, Offenseive Line. Nabbing Royce Martin where they did is understandable, as he’s great at G, but really has ALL the tools to play RT, and he won’t mess you up if you plug him in to play.
I really don’t think they were looking for instant starter there. He’s a developmental player. Full year starting RT who gave up more pressures playing RT than he did at G - but, GREAT versatility. He gave up only 3 sacks in his career. Like most, needs a little sand in the pants. Bakhtiari did too as a rookie, but was pressed into starting Game 1 as a rookie when Bulaga went down.
The Packers didn’t reach on DL, and really got a great player to develop in Tedarrell Slaton. He’s got the size to handle 1 gap NT, plus some speed in pass rush. This was not a good draft to be in need of DL, but I think they got one of the better NTs.
Turophile, I know where you are going with this, and wanted much the same in terms of positive aspects many of those players bring. Even the last DT you mentioned came with the concerns that ALL of his production came in just the last 5 games he played.
Thinking about Barry coming in, we have a number of players Gutekunst acquired that never got a chance, ones similar in size/speed etc already on this roster. Wilington Previlon comes to mind. 2” taller than Osa Odighizuwa, with the same 84” wingspan.
Packers did fairly well up front IMO. Time will tell. Didn’t have the DIC flash I wanted either, as a fan. Their personnel staff chose differently.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 10:39 am
No negative or positive here. I know you have done a good job over the years with your mocks. The only two I would have changed around are Christianson and Nixon. I said Nixon could replace Lowrey, regardless being a underclassmen. Christenson was to old for me. He's 25. But the others that fell had knee injuries. Wilson and Snowden. So with the reconstruction came the doubts. Something we don't see. Barmore,Oweh,McNeil, and Marco Wilson, will be all-pros before any of Gutes picks.
10ve 💚
May 06, 2021 at 10:47 am
@Turophile, there is one correction you would have to make in your draft selections.
Say you selected DE Levi Onwuzurike as he was available. All good. However, this could have a domino effect. Who is to say that your selection did not change the selections of other teams, and then your subsequent selections are no longer on the board? There is a cause-and-effect consideration here.
But, in principle I agree with you...
Turophile
May 06, 2021 at 12:26 pm
Yep, nothing is perfect. I also have the advantage of knowing where each player will go and can wait until just before a specific player was picked, to snap him up
(for example it was very possible C/G Meinerz would be gone before the Packers 3rd round pick, but he was just about still on the board, so that might affect the 2nd round pick, because the choice there was C Myers for the Packers).
However, this is as close as I can get to having the same choices Gute had, and I went a different way.
To GreenandGold I'd say this. Everyone, even pick number one, Trevor Lawrence*, has knocks on them. If this is what you want to look for, you will find something every time. (*for example, Apparently Lawrence doesn't study tape, which was a surprise to me).
Would you have preferred the alternative top 3 I listed in my post: 1) OT Teven Jenkins, 2) DL Milton Williams, 3) CB Elijah Molden ?
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 12:53 pm
Hey Turophile, it was nothing personal. I tried communicating that, yeah, we'll never know how the team rated these other players. I was just guessing too, bud!!! No harm intended.
I had done roughly 300 mocks... not in an app, but building based on what I thought might happen, and where players might have sat. I had Levi as the #1 in some of those exercises. I had all kinds of them in what I considered exercises, just to see how they could possibly play out, and what might help the Packers the most...
Here you go my friend, so you know what I'm talking about. This were my favorite sets of options... some OL heavy, some not. Wasn't really sure what they were thinking about our OL situation, how they perceived our needs...
As you might see, it is not like I knew Nixon was being purposefully dissed... Didn't know if they would want more WRs, based on expiring contracts, didn't know if they wanted big sweeping additions to OLB with contracts coming up, some CB heavy, some not as I was unsure of their plans/development of current players etc. It is all a big guessing game for any fans. I looked at it kind of like a puzzle.
There are also factors built in where I thought players would be gone from us. Out of reach. McNeil, Cox and Deablo were probably my biggest draft crushes.
Now, this isn't cleaned up or anything, but straight out of my notes from Draft Day last Thursday:
BEST Mock 2021***
*******
29 - ILB Jabril Cox
62 - DT Daviyon Nixon
92 - WR Nico Collins
135 - CB Robert Rochell
142 - DT Jaylen Twyman
173 - WR Jaelen Darden
178 - ILB Dylan Moses
214 - WR Dazz Newsome
220 - S JaCoby Stevens
256 - DT Dion Novil
Trade w JAX for 45/65 allows an add of OT Day 2
*******
29 - ILB Jamin Davis
62 - DT Alim McNeill
92 - CB Robert Rochell
135 - WR Jaelen Darden
142 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
173 - RB/WR Demetric Felton
178 - OT Larnel Coleman
214 - OLB/ILB Charles Snowden
220 - DT Dion Novil
256 - OLB Daelin Hayes
29 - C Quinn Meinerz
62 - OT Dillon Radunz
92 - WR Nico Collins
135 - WR Jaelon Darden
142 - S Divine Deablo
173 - DT Tyler Shelvin
178 - S/ILB Jamien Sherwood
214 - CB Israel Mukuamu
220 - CB Camryn Bynum
256 - DT Dion Novil
29 -OT Jackson Carman
62 - DT Alim McNeil
92 - S Divine Deablo
135 - WR Jaelen Darden
142 - CB Kary Vincent
173 - DT Tyler Shelvin
178 - WR Jacob Harris
214 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
220 - OLB/ILB Charles Snowden
256 - DT Dion Novil
29 - DL Alim McNeill
62 - CB Paulson Adebo
92 - OT Tommy Doyle
135 - WR Jaelen Darden
142 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
173 - WR Jacob Harris
178 - DT Dion Novil
214 - S/ILB Jamien Sherwood
220 - OLB/ILB Charles Snowden
256 - OLB Daelin Hayes
29 - CB Eric Stokes
62 - DL Alim McNeill
92 - S/ILB Divine Deablo
135 -WR Jaelen Darden
142 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
173 - WR/RB Demetric Felton
178 - OT Larnel Coleman
214 - S/ILB Jamien Sherwood
220 - OLB/ILB Charles Snowden
256 - WR Austin Watkins
29 - DL Alim McNeill
62 - CB Paulson Adebo
92 - OT Tommy Doyle
135 - WR Jaelen Darden
142 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
173 - WR Jacob Harris
178 - DT Dion Novil
214 - S/ILB Jamien Sherwood
220 - OLB/ILB Charles Snowden
256 - OLB Daelin Hayes
29 - ILB Jabril Cox
62 - CB Eric Stokes
92 - DT Alim McNeill
135 - WR Jaelen Darden
142 - OT Tommy Doyle
173 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
178 - NT Khyiris Tonga
214 - S/ILB Jacoby Stevens
220 - WR Jonathan Adams
256 - CB Michael Carter III
29 - WR Elijah Moore 74
62 - ILB Jabril Cox 84
92 - OT Jackson Carman 71
135 - WR/PR Dazz Newsome
142 - CB Kary Vincent
173 - DT Khyiris Tonga
178 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
214 - DT Jaylen Twyman 32
220 - DT Dion Novil
256 - WR Jonathan Adams
29 - CB Eric Stokes
62 - C Quinn Meinerz
92 - DT Bobby Brown III
135 - WR/PR Dazz Newsome
142 - OT Tommy Doyle
173 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
178 - WR Jaelen Darden
214 - DT Jaylen Twyman
220 -WR Marquez “Speedy” Stevenson
256 - DT Dion Novil
ATHLON/CHTV Top 100
29 - DT Daviyon Nixon 29/46
62 - CB Eric Stokes 41/59
92 - WR Nico Collins 92/66
135 - WR D’Wayne Eskridge XX/80
142 - OT Jalen Mayfield 32/39
173 - ILB Dylan Moses 30/86
178 - S Jamien Sherwood 85/XX
214 - WR Dazz Newsome
220 - DT Dion Novil
256 - OT Larnel Coleman
29 - WR Elijah Moore 74/27
62 - CB Eric Stokes 41/59
92 - DT Daviyon Nixon 29/46
135 - ILB Chazz Surratt 52/40
142 - DT Jaylen Twyman 32/71
173 - ILB Dylan Moses 30/86
178 - S Jamien Sherwood 85/XX
214 - WR Jonathan Adams
220 - WR Dazz Newsome
256 - OT Larnel Coleman
*******
29 - WR Kadarius Toney
62 - DT Daviyon Nixon
92 - CB Robert Rochell
135 - CB/S Israel Mukuamu
142 - DT Jaylen Twyman
173 - OLB Charles Snowden
178 - ILB Dylan Moses
214 - WR Jaelen Darden
220 - WR Jonathan Adams
256 - OT Larnel Coleman
*******
29 - DT Daviyon Nixon
62 - ILB Jabril Cox
92 - WR Nico Collins
135 - WR Dazz Newsome
142 - DT Jaylen Twyman
173 - OLB Charles Snowden
178 - CB Tay Gowan
214 - S Tariq Thompson
220 - CB Camryn Bynum
256 - DT Dion Novil
*******
29 - DT Christian Barmore
62 - DT Daviyon Nixon
92 - WR Nico Collins
135 - ILB Chazz Surratt
142 - CB Robert Rochell
173 - OLB Charles Snowden
178 - DT Darius Stills
214 - WR Marquez Stevenson
220 - WR Jacob Harris
256 - OT Larnel Coleman
*******
Turophile
May 06, 2021 at 02:22 pm
GreenGold, I never took your post as any kind of personal slight, it was just your opinion.
I'll admit that a lot of my favourite guys were at least partly down to all the Bootleg Football I saw on youtube - the two presenters have a fantastic knowledge of draft guys and of team rosters (one of them is a Bears fan, but he is objective, so it's fine).
Loved Snowdon, who you had in many of your mocks.
Liked OT Alim McNeill as well.
Barmore is so talented, but is a bit boom or bust - roll the dice and hope is comes up doublesix.
I did have a lot of love for LB Zaven Collins (that great size and speed), but I also knew it would take a lot of luck to find him anywhere from #24 or later (he went a #16).
Now I'm off to find out who the heck Dion Novil is !!
PS As for Deablo, just to have a name like Divine Deablo, the divine and the diabolic together, awesome. He was something of an enforcer as well, so I'm not entirely surprised the Raiders want to switch him to LB (I'd have had him going to the Seahawks as a Cover 3 safety, a Kam Chancellor type).
HankScorpio
May 06, 2021 at 12:17 pm
There is no right or wrong to draft selections yet. And really, there won't ever be even once time tells how the Packers set of picks performed vs Turnophile's list. The Packers guys played in the GB system, with GB coaches and surrounding talent. That's a variable that Turnophile's list cannot squeeze out. For example, maybe a guy like Cameron McGrone sucks where ever he landed but would have flourished in GB. Or vice versa.
But it's a more interesting discussion that the Rodgers crap that is dominating everything else. So thumbs up from me for it.
Turophile
May 06, 2021 at 12:37 pm
Turnophile, I like that.
Yes fit and role is very important, I'd never argue against that.
But I'm still going to be disappointed if the players I chose shine more brightly than the Packers picks, doubly so if the Packers choices are off the team in 3 years.
I wholeheartedly agree that this discussion is better than the rather wild Rodgers stuff.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 02:52 pm
You need to stop this, HankScorpio.
There is no right or wrong, yet. None of us could possibly know about injuries and obstacles and opportunities and how they’ll react . They’re barely adults. Stuff happens.
I mean it Hank. Stop while there’s still a chance.
Swisch
May 06, 2021 at 07:50 am
After Trevor Lawrence, the other top quarterbacks selected in the draft this year seemed a little shaky to me: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, Justin Fields.
Maybe they turn out great, but I wasn't awed by any of them.
Which is all to say that Jordan Love may be a better prospect for the pros than all of them. He may be more ready to go this year, and also have a higher ceiling for the future.
This is really just a hunch of mine, and I'm wondering what other fans think.
Perhaps even the elite college quarterbacks taken in the first round of a draft are mostly mysteries until they step into an NFL game -- and even then it can take a couple of years to really get a sense of their capabilities.
Still, fans who have more or less followed Love and other young quarterbacks may have some opinions as to who is going to excel in the NFL, and I'd be glad to hear what you think.
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 08:17 am
The Bears are getting a lot of good press for dealing up for Fields. In all honesty, the QB position is that important, but I don't see Nagy and Pace being the ones to benefit from him. There are some aspects of what Fields does that reminds me of Donovan McNabb...but he's got a long way to go to get there, and the Bears dealt away most of their ability to help him out via the draft until 2023.
They say Dalton's their starter, but he showed so poorly in Dallas, that I don't see him lasting more than 2 or 3 losses before they pull the plug and throw Fields out there.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 09:59 am
Love would have been the second QB selected.
LambeauPlain
May 06, 2021 at 01:28 pm
If you would compare Love's sophomore season to Trey Lance's sophomore (and really only full season), Jordan is a no brainer.
Too many fans focus on Love's last year as a Junior when he had to adjust to new coaching, 3 new OL starters and lost all his starting WRs and had an entirely new group.
Swisch
May 06, 2021 at 05:46 pm
The situation of Jordan Love at Utah State may have been similar to that of Kylin Hill at Mississippi State.
As I understand it, both players had new coaches come in who installed radically different offenses that placed limitations on their skills.
It may be that both of these guys were underrated as a result of these drastic changes, and that each is a bargain for the Packers.
We can hope for perhaps stars in the making.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 06:19 pm
Lynch made an idiotic move to jump to # 3 for Lance, wtf. Did he believe his "plan" was to captivate Gutedkunst with that selection and throw in some dead weight off his roster? He and Shanahan may be fired by the end of 2021.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 06:24 pm
Moving from Matt Wells and David Yost' s offensive schemes to Gary Andersen would be enough for any sane QB to resist the incursion of rust, the Veer and obsolescence like the Plague. Love is fine, he fits my profile of a QB, not Boyle.
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 08:01 am
"Okay, fine, let's talk Rodgers"
I've been happier when we don't. Not because I want to ignore the issue, but because it draws attention to things that are beyond our control, and because the smearing on both sides is not something I like to participate in.
That said...ARod has always had a problem with public perception. He followed a cult icon in Brett Favre who was pretty broadly loved in Packer fan and media circles. He was symbolic of the return of the Packers to relevance, and his foibles were largely ignored or (in the case of his substance abuse and "recovery") even glorified. For many, Rodgers was the interloper...I have several family members who despise Rodgers, not for who he is, but because he and TT were viewed as pushing the icon out of town. ARod has never been one to embrace the media or build a personal image that was terribly affable or relatable. He's very private, and seems to emerge every couple years to make sure he's getting his. For many, he started in a PR hole and really hasn't done too much to fix it. I think ARod is a superior onfield QB over Favre, but in an era of increased expectations he hasn't been able to elevate this team to regular SB appearances and wins. That also weighs against him.
The Packers on the other hand, as the "organization", are in a regular position of no comment. They don't want to smear a trade-able commodity and diminish his value, so we won't hear their full side of the story until memoirs are written or after front-office folks retire. Still, the Packers' visible stance has been to go about business as usual and to try to appease ARod with $$, and not by listening to his opinions on personnel (and maybe even coaches). I tend to belong to the "players are employees" camp, but understand that an NFL QB has so much to do with organizational popularity and success that you need to keep that player happy to some degree. Still, that player shouldn't be making roster decisions...he has far less understanding of cap management, 53-man roster management, etc., that the people who build it and plan it day-in and day-out.
What's best for both parties, I believe, going forward is for ARod to play 2021 for the Packers and play at a high level. The longer this lasts, the more his public persona takes hits. He's someone who has always been careful with his brand and his image. He wants to be a public figure after his NFL life ends, and none of this helps. If the Packers deal him Jun. 1, it solidifies him as a malcontent and a diva in the eyes of many. If he plays, puts on a chipper face, and the Packers do well, he looks the part of the good soldier and it will help to rebuild some good will across the NFL markets.
What's more, the Packers trying to deal him at Jun. 1 are limited to one or two suitors. They'll never get best value for him at that stage, and all draft picks received will be devalued due to ARod likely elevating the play of whatever team he goes to. The best time to deal him would be shortly after the 2022 SB: every GM out there knows he's there to be had, and you go from 1-2 possible partners to half a dozen or more, dealing 2022 picks that come from a 2021 record that likely will be worse than future records. What's more, the 2022 QB draft class doesn't look as strong as the last couple, and those teams that have recently gambled on drafted QBs might be more willing to pull the plug and gamble on a new QB (see: Darnold, Sam).
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:54 am
Well said. It’s time to take a long hard look at this rather than simply assume good intentions. That won’t happen, just as it didn’t with Favre. The nature of fandom is to beatify a great player. Three wise monkeys.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 10:08 am
"Okay, fine, let's talk Rodgers"
Let’s not, and say we did...
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 11:16 am
@dobber
We’re going to trade Rodgers after June 1., probably to Denver, unless they get stingy. If they do, we’ll trade him for what we can get in addition to the salary cap relief and an end to the drama.
Your comment about “what’s best for both parties “ sounds like something a person says when they’re at Bargaining/ Negotiating. It’s completely logical and it’s not going to happen.
If we could get Surtain, and next year’s #1, I’d be fine. Anything else is gravy.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 08:01 am
Tim you wrote a great article to support management. And the best guy on was TJ Lang. Two things stood out. He didn't want to play center. And the only thing the lions cared about was beating the Division rivals. It's been years since Lang left. But that is the problem with Gute and Murphy. They only cared about beating division Rivals. Not winning it all. And when everybody looks back on Rodgers career. Their going to look at the weak Division he owned. You can talk up this draft all you want. But Lang hit the nail on the head. Rodgers could play for another 5 years. But not if the talent is only good enough to challenge, rather then win. Rodgers had the right to want Wrs. He was forced to take Free Agents and make them better. The mistakes made by Gute to only produce a Division Winner:// Should have us all screaming for his job. He could of signed Jones before Wagner and Bahk. He's cost the packers more money, talent, draft picks, and now Rodgers. And everybody keeps looking at Rodgers as the enemy in all this. Management has cost the packers more then a dynasty.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 10:06 am
Ja'mon Moore is all you need to know.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 10:10 am
Another guy I didn't want drafted.
Lphill
May 06, 2021 at 08:13 am
Just a depth draft nothing more , depth is equal to having more clean socks in the drawer.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:55 am
Which is quite useful if you don’t want to stink.
dobber
May 06, 2021 at 09:19 am
Cookies!
LambeauPlain
May 06, 2021 at 01:32 pm
Well played!
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 10:25 am
What a load of crap.
The first three picks have the goods to be instant starters. I’ll be surprised if all 3 aren’t on Day 1 - as in a different kind of move, think Kevin King will start at the star.
I remember him talking about his desire to cover the slot last year, and how just about all of the DBs wanted that. I bet he gets that chance this year, with Jaire & Eric on the outsides. Thinking Savage’s experience will be required at the starting FS until both Vernon Scott & Christian Uphoff get more reps.
Roadrunner23
May 06, 2021 at 08:23 am
If Brian Bad a Kunst wants to save his job he’d better fix this. He has already shown he has no idea how to scout and evaluate QB’s (Hundley-Kiser-Locke) were all QB’s he’s scouted and was high on (or he must have been high) and he’s drafted the MVP’s replacement in Jordan Love who is an absolute interception machine! I’ve watched most of Love’s available games and one thing stands out, he can’t read a defense! Love is absolutely terrible! Now we’re talking about guys like Blake Bortles? Am I living in an alternative universe or something? The Packers have a championship caliber team coming back and we’re talking about Blake Bortles and Jordan Love at the helm?!
Murphy-Bad a Kunst and Russ no Balls (the 3 stooges) should be unceremoniously removed immediately when this thing implodes which is a good possibility.
Do I like the way Rodgers is handling this? No! But this is the 2nd such fiasco under Murphy’s watch and it has become a national embarrassment.
These management idiots have F’d this team up and once Rodgers leaves, the locker room will collapse and we fans are in for decades of horrible football. This is not how you run a football team, it’s how you run a football franchise into the ground!
Packers management, you F’d up, own up to it and Fix this now!
That is all....
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:57 am
The only way they should be fired is if they cave. Franchise over player unless you are a Rodgers fan not a Packer fan first. This from a definite Murphy skeptic.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 10:08 am
And then it will be to late.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 10:20 am
In your view it has been too late for a long time.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 10:10 am
They are a good example why not to promote from within. The Packer Way has turned into a craft-beer branding scheme. Rodgers is standing his ground. The FO already caved following the antiquated Ted Rules. You do not want to go back to that 70s Show.
Since'61
May 06, 2021 at 09:07 pm
Nostradanus, The only way this ends well for the Packers is if they work out a deal with Rodgers that gives him 2-3 seasons of security with the team. If Gute can't get that done then the other options could hurt the team.
Worst case would be if the Packers don't trade or extend Rodgers. Then Rodgers holds out and the locker room is split or becomes demoralized over the on going impasse.
Second worse scenario is that Rodgers decides to retire and the Packers get nothing in return for one of the greatest QBs to ever play in the NFL. This also runs the risk of a demoralized team at least for the 2021 season.
Third worse if they do trade Rodgers and get a few good picks but Rodgers wins an SB with his new team and the Packers end up with more picks at the end of each round.
It doesn't matter who says what or what is alleged about who said what, what matters is the consequences of the decisions which are made. I hope for the team's sake that Gute and Murphy are thinking through these scenarios and a few other possibilities. The one thing which is pretty clear at this point is that they haven't considered the consequences of the previous decisions they have made concerning Rodgers. So here we are. Thanks, Since '61
Since'61
May 06, 2021 at 10:14 am
Sorry double post.
Roadrunner23
May 06, 2021 at 10:35 am
The one thing we know is Rodgers still wants to play, he’s not going to retire. Will he hold out maybe.
The mistake Gutekunst made was going rouge and trading up for a very questionable QB instead of trading up for Justin Jefferson. Rodgers made it very clear he wanted to play into his 40’s and retire a Packer, how did management treat this? They drafted his replacement immediately! Now they are trying to fix their gigantic mistake and are looking like fools. This is just insufferable and embarrassing.
When you mess a great situation up this badly heads have to roll!
whysoserious
May 06, 2021 at 11:35 am
Maybe Gute did try and trade up for Jefferson. You don't know. I also find it interesting that everyone complains that management never gave Rodgers any talent. Draft a receiver and all will be well and then when the Packers have the number one scoring offense in the league it is just because Aaron carried them on his back. He must have failed to carry them the previous 4 years when his stats were declining. Maybe give management some credit for hiring LeFleur to implement an offense that could bring the Packers and Rodgers back to competing for Super Bowls.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 12:14 pm
The trade had impact during or prior to this past week's draft. Now the brain trust has to try and salvage value.
I wanted Surtain, Jeudy, Lock and two # one picks which doesn't seem likely.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 12:18 pm
Not sure Surtain becomes a part of the deal, but Jeudy, Bridgewater, and DE Shelby Harris, along with 3 R1s... that seems reasonable for the current NFL MVP.
flackcatcher
May 06, 2021 at 12:01 pm
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha... SO cruel SHE of the charts.
RCPackerFan
May 06, 2021 at 08:25 am
I felt in 2020 the Packers drafted more for the future then anything. Love clearly was the future. Dillon was for this year. I believe they saw him as a unicorn pick though. One rare RB that no matter what happened in the future, he would offer something completely different then any other RB that would be available. I also think he was picked incase Jones wasn't resigned.
Deguara was a good choice, unfortunately he got hurt. Hopefully this year he will show why he was a 3rd round choice. Martin also had an injury early. He came on late and should be one of the starting ILB's. The 3 OL was the way Gutey wants to go. Build the OL. Scott is a guy to watch this year to play the 3rd Safety spot. Garvin is also a guy to watch. He flashed a bit last year, but an offseason could give him an edge for this year.
This year we should start to see the 2020 class really step up.
This years draft really made sense from pick 1 until pick 9.
Stokes - Packers DB's got burned in NFCCG and showed they needed help opposite of Alexander. Adding pure speed will help a ton as well.
Myers - This is a plug and play move. Myers should be penciled in at OC. The things he did at Ohio State he will do in GB. This selection really is about losing Linsley. Losing him, there was a big void in the middle of the OL. If Myers can come in and be the starter, he will allow Jenkins, Patrick to move to where ever they are needed.
Rodgers - This clearly is the player we as fans have been clamoring for. This pick will fill voids on offense and special teams. On offense think about a combination of Randall Cobb and Deebo Samual. He reminds me of each player in many ways. But the part that could really improve the offense with Rodgers is his YAC ability.
Newman - I think they took Newman to be the RT first. If he doesn't work at RT, then they will send him in to OG. But I think Newman might be their plan to replace Billy Turner eventually. Or at least a possible option.
Slaton - At this point in the draft you have to find guys with a trait or skill set that you think you can expand on. This also was a need pick. They have a real need for a BIG DT/NT. Slaton is that. He is a Big man. He is a guy who could be a run down defender to start out.
Jean-Charles - Is an intriguing pick. Some think he will be a slot CB. Some think he will even push Sullivan right away for that spot. He has a nose for the ball. He should be an immediate factor on special teams. But don't be surprised if he finds a way onto the defense.
Van Lanen - This reminds me of Runyan from last year. A college OT likely to move into OG. I think Van Lanen could be one of the top backups right away this year. Could be a potential starter in the future.
McDuffie - I would think he will be a special teams player right away. Possibly could work his way onto the defense or be a top back up there.
Hill - This to me was a need pick but also a great value pick. Packers had a need for a 3rd RB, and also got a guy that could have went earlier. This to me was a very good pick.
As a whole, i felt every player fills a role on this team this year. I also feel that our first 3 picks will either be starters from day 1 or very key contributors. I realistically thing that we could have 4-6 future starters from this class. Obviously time will tell, but the fact that we potentially have that many starters in the future from a draft, i think its a very good draft. Now we could in reality have 2 or 3 starters, but I do think the potential is there for that many.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 10:38 am
Right ON, RC!!!
I’m going to have an RC Cola today in your honor.
RCPackerFan
May 06, 2021 at 06:23 pm
lol. I haven't had that in a long time. may have to buy one.
BJP
May 06, 2021 at 08:26 am
Just another article hyperventilating about what supposedly Aaron Rodgers said. All we really know is that Aaron wanted a contract extension, he is not participating in virtual OTAs And that the Packers have not announced a contract extension.
All the rest is noise.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 08:58 am
Noise issued from the Rodgers camp at a specific time and for a specific purpose.
Handsback
May 06, 2021 at 08:42 am
I keep seeing statements like both parties are at fault. Really, because Rodgers signed a whopping contract less than three years ago. He overperformed last year, but same old Rodgers in the playoffs. Now he wants the Packers to keep playing him on his timeline, not the teams? Both parties are at fault? Only one person raising a stink and doing it through surrogates.
Green Bay needs more QBs in camp, if Rodgers is there or not. Get some camp bodies and trade Rodgers after June....its time to move on.
Ryan3468
May 06, 2021 at 08:48 am
Rogers never ever admits fault to anything. Obviously holds a grudge. This is why he fell to us in the draft. Green Bay has to trade him now to the highest bidding team that will give us the highest value return. A team that will not go to the playoffs. Jake Kumero? Evidently Rogers was friends with someone who supported his narrative. Rogers likes that. The Hollywood stardom hasn’t been good for his ego. Now that he is bigger than the team, and bigger than winning football games he needs to be traded to a bad team that will give us a haul. Do you want to see the Rogers of two years ago? He only cares about himself and his stats. I’ll miss his talent, but not the personality. Go Pack Go!
blacke00
May 06, 2021 at 09:06 am
Rodgers helped create this mess. I'm not convinced it wasn't planned months ago. But that being said, the Packers have a BIG management problem! Murphy has to take the majority of the blame with Gutekunst contributing substantially. A manger at all levels have to communicate with all levels of staff. I know there are different styles but this is a business with huge egos (in this case a true narcissist). Managers need to know how to "manage those people! The Packers have no clue!
How is this problem fixed? For one, it won't likely fixed anytime soon. Management needs a change or at least a whole sale intervention as what has gone wrong. My suspicion is that Rodgers maybe just the tip of the iceberg.
The Packer's EC better be taking a extremely serious look at this fiasco. Our "Brand" is taking a serious hit!....for the second TIME!
Roadrunner23
May 06, 2021 at 09:56 am
I am always a Packers fan first and foremost team over player. However these SILOS that Murphy was going to tear down have not been and that’s the problem. Is Rodgers being an A hole? Yes! Is management just fault? Yes! Fix this
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 10:34 am
These silos as you put it were actually reinforced by Murphy who enshrined them into a structure where he is the only common source of authority. Then he sits and tries to say he is above the fray.
I’m not a fan of Murphy, though he did hire LaFleur and commit to changing the roster to fit LaFleur’s vision (support your hire or don’t make it).
That said, this isn’t about rosters or Gute, those are chaff. The issue is Rodgers wants to be guaranteed till he choses to walk away. That is not a good idea, and no GM should extend that kind of player over team guarantee at this point in a career. That’s the best way to hamstring a Franchise after the end, if the end comes in the most likely ways.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 11:07 am
You keep pointing to Rodgers wanting money. Thats not what I see. I see Rodgers not wanting Gute to take the money back. How many contracts got Re-worked this off season? Didn't they really want to take the ball out of Rodgers hands with the running game? Didn't Gute hurry and get rid of any chemistry with the Wrs. Rodgers has been blackmailed to take less. Period! Rodgers had to change. Period. The packers Brass don't want Rodgers to show them up. They will let him rot, unless the NFL wants to improve their ratings.
Coldworld
May 06, 2021 at 12:11 pm
I did not mention money, I referenced guarantees. That does imply money in practical terms, I accept.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 11:25 am
@coldworld. That is exactly the point: Rodgers wants guarantees until HE chooses to walk away, and that’s not a good idea.
The Plan, IMO, has always been to start Love in 2022, so why would you commit future money to Rodgers.
stockholder
May 06, 2021 at 12:02 pm
Doesn't matter what Rodgers wants now. They drafted love. Just hand the ball off.- Favre has been there. He says retirement. I agree with Favre. Win or lose; wasn't the issue when #4 left. It won't be after Rodgers leaves. Development was more important.
jannesbjornson
May 06, 2021 at 12:19 pm
Hand out the Foma and the Fans will come...
flackcatcher
May 06, 2021 at 12:49 pm
I believe it was more 2023 but Covid-19 intervened. Rodgers had to know that his contract made any major moves impossible. So in order to stay beyond 2022 he would have had to agree to a Brady style restructure. And even if he did, the lost of core players from this current roster over Cap was going to be heavy. It is his contract which is dictating the Packers actions here, not the other way around. The contract had to go if Rodgers were to stay. That has always been the heart of the matter between Rodgers and the Packers. In truth, it does not matter were Rodgers goes, as long as he takes his contract with him. It is the only true way the Packers can rebuild (or reload) for the future. And Rodgers has no one to blame for this but himself, as Dobber has pointed out. The second the NFLPA signed off on the new salary structure, this outcome with Rodgers was pretty much locked in. It's early (too early in my mind) but it's Loves team now. (Unless there is a last second miracle, or Rodgers comes to his senses which I don't see happening)
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 01:25 pm
Personally, I think ALL OF THIS is SO FAR OFF THE MARK. He doesn't ever want to come back to GB. I believe he is done, and will sit if need be, rather than come back to play for the Packers.
He wants to be in Denver, closer to his fiancé's family. Truly believe it is not a whole lot more than that, other than the knowledge Elway will move mountains for him to win a SB there. And I don't believe it is anything really personal against GB.
Let me add here too, the Packers FO are not a bunch of dicks. Rodgers may have released some info to push the narrative onto a hotplate, to get a deal done. He will always be part of GB legacy. Maybe he has personal reasons like I mentioned, wants to start a family there, and simply wants the change. Maybe DEN gives GB a very handsome trade package, and the Packers accommodate AR, moving onto the next chapter with an armload of goods.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 10:41 am
Greg Jennings is pissed at Arron Rodgers because all he ever talks about is Jake Kumerow...
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 11:36 am
Funny, but maybe too soon.
whysoserious
May 06, 2021 at 11:44 am
Just a fun fact for people to think about. i looked up quarterback salary cap numbers for the last 21 years when I was bored. These are not average salary but the number against the cap for the specific year they won the Super Bowl. Out of the last 21 years only 6 times did a quarterback who was in the top 10 for quarterbacks salary cap numbers have won the Super Bowl. Brady E Manning and P manning all did it twice. Only Eli was above number 6. he ranked 5th and 4th. Brady was number 6 last year and will be 16th this coming season. Just something to think about.
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 01:26 pm
COOL! Thanks for the info!
greengold
May 06, 2021 at 12:31 pm
Couldn't help it, Leatherhead.
I have way more confidence in this Packers team. The sky is not falling. This is an insanely deep team, and I think it will get deeper in quality talent if they can extend Davante's contract... and reap some top players in trade.
Somebody was talking about the Packers running more.
We've clearly added both highly regarded players up front, along with one of the SEC's PREMIERE RBs in Kylin Hill, AS OUR # 3 RB!!! We will be seeing exactly why they nabbed Deguara in R3 last year, and we'll be able to realize what Matt LaFleur has been wanting using the Jet concepts with Amari Rodgers in the slot.
Not many people talk about Aaron Rodgers possibly going away from run options in order to throw the football (and, yes, I know there are options built into just about every play for run or pass). Personally, I think that happened A SHIT TON over the last decade. I'm left wondering how many times LaFleur wanted a run play where Aaron chose to throw in some situations...??? Just curious if this had become an issue.
Take one look at the play-by-play from the 2nd half of the NFCC for a refresher if you disagree... it might change your mind. Seems to me, a 2nd year QB like Love might be more receptive to LaFleur's wishes, and I'll put money on it they included more run plays.
To those who might reply that TB was shutting down the run... all I have to say is YOU EXACT YOUR WILL. Running the football effectively is taking that 1 yard and a cloud of dust and running again, and again, and again. You wear the opposing DL out by doing so, with quality road graders up front to help get the job done, along with a steadfast will to see it through successfully.
I want to see A BIG DOSE of Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon and Kylin Hill this year, and believe it would be VERY SMART FOOTBALL, whether the trade happens or not. That would open EVERYTHING UP in play action for Love to do some damage in the air. RUN THE ROCK!!! RUN TO DAYLIGHT.
In time, I believe Love will be lighting it up through the air, and we'll quite possibly see some smarter, more balanced & winning football with LaFleur, unquestionably, in full command of the offense.
Tom Brady & Bill Belichick understood you have to run the football, and look how many Lombardi Trophies they won. We had 16 rushing attempts v. TB. If I'm not mistaken, I believe we only had 3 in the entire 2nd half. you can't win football games that way against the best of the best.
flackcatcher
May 06, 2021 at 01:23 pm
Rodgers ego had become a problem by 2013 in running the offense. McCarthy had for a time during that season stripped Rodgers from running RPO's and reduced to the number of checks he was allowed to call at the line. (Seeing Rodgers get yelled at by Lang and Sittion? on the side line after McCarthy tore into him on live on TV. That was something) So seeing Lafleur dressing Rodgers down in 2019 on the side line for not running the called run play is not new. To Rodgers credit, he was very discipline in the Lafleur offense scheme for most of the last year. The lack of F-Back and slot really hurt in the NFCC game. I believe it was more Lafleur than Rodgers in going to the spread game in the last 4:00 minutes.
Leatherhead
May 06, 2021 at 01:44 pm
Run more, pass less. This team is plenty good enough to win with Love.
LambeauPlain
May 06, 2021 at 01:53 pm
Nice article Tim.
When ever you can write a fun read and mix in a longer beer analysis than words devoted to the current soap opera, I am good.
The draft was a solid meat and potatoes performance that I think will produce solid rookie contributions, a starter or two, players that will be on the 53 for awhile. Of course the Gutey, Front Office haters would still complain even if the 9 picks had all been in the top 100.
Regarding the Favre exit, I wanted to add that MM was on board with TT and Murphy too. The hours long session Favre had with MM before family night had the coach saying he was welcome back to compete for the starter role. Favre said No. He wanted to be given the job.
Lastly Kuhn said he has talked with Rodgers recently (see Packerswire). He is optimistic he returns. What changed from last Summer when Rodgers said he was at peace with the Love selection to now? Kuhn said "the MVP" and Rodgers trying to use it as leverage now...before father time takes him off the field. I agree.