Gut Reactions: Week 11 vs Minnesota

Aaron's gut reactions from the Packers win over the Vikings. 

  • That felt like an old school NFC Central slug fest. Loved it.
  • That said, all the first down running calls had me banging my head on my desk as an homage. 
  • On one third down sack, Rodgers did a great job setting protection along the interior - but missed the slot guy screaming off the edge. 
  • That touchdown pass to Jones was absolutely insane. 
  • You could see the WRs reading coverages differently than Rodgers on more than one occasion. 
  • It's amazing how different Lacy looks when he has a fullback in front of him. 
  • Speaking of Lacy, he pulled himself out more than a couple times. Incredibly gutsy performance from him. You can tell he's still battling groin, ankle and who knows whatever else. 
  • Even though they didn't connect, liked seeing a few shots downfield to Janis. Obviously they did get the big PI call out of the first one. 
  • Zone stretch on 3rd and 1 is the worst. 
  • Mason Crosby was damn near an MVP in the early going. 
  • BJ Raji basically caved in the backside of the line on the second play from scrimmage and continued to blow guys up all game. Really good game from the big guy.
  • TJ Lang's second block on the screen to Starks was absolutely outstanding. 
  • Mike Daniels gets a lot of grief from some fans for all the talking he does, but he got in Peterson's head early. 
  • Loved seeing Datone Jones get the team's first sack in forever from the OLB position. Guy had a real strong game.
  • Fantastic work from JC Tretter coming in for Linsley after the injury. 
  • The defensive front as a whole absolutely controlled the game. 
  • Looking forward to a big showdown with the Bears on Thursday night.
  • Go Pack Go. 
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Comments (168)

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NashvilleCheesehead's picture

November 22, 2015 at 06:44 pm

Whew! Work to do, but back on track. Go Pack Go!

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Kyle Graham's picture

November 22, 2015 at 06:49 pm

So great to see Lacy doing what he does best, following the fullback and running viqueens over! What a great game. Big ups to heyward thought he had his best game in a long time. Great game.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 06:54 pm

Welcome back Eddie. Needed that game from him.
Also great job by Crosby. Rebounding from the failed game winning kick last week.

Datone Jones was an absolute beast. Can we get rid of the bust stuff with him. He is NOT a bust.

Defense played great all game. Offense needs to stop dropping balls. Way to many drops. A few off throws as well. But finally the offense found some rhythm.

Great win.

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NickPerry's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:52 am

Must be 2 Vikings fans online because RC should get nothing but "Thumbs Up" for his comment! Agree on all points RC!! Especially Lacy. For once they KEPT feeding him the ball and the offense looked better.

The defense kept it up the ENTIRE game. No proverbial garbage time TD this week. Great job guys!

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:50 am

Thanks Nick.

I was happy to see the coaches went with Lacy. I honestly would have liked to have seen them go to him more in the first half, but I'm happy they used him the majority of the 2nd half.

The defense was great. They were playing with an attitude and aggressiveness we haven't seen in a while. If they can play with that aggression each week this team is going to be making a deep run.

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Mags's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:26 am

I would like to see a lot more consistency with Jones he had a great game but they are few and far between for a #1 pick.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:42 am

Fair enough. I thought Jones has been very good this year overall...

He just shouldn't be considered a bust by fans though.

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:01 am

He was dominant rushing the QB today, not sure he deserves any criticism. 2 TFL, 2 Sacks, 1 PD, 4 QB hits, wtf else do you want from him?

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EdsLaces's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:07 pm

I think I'm still kinda in shock. Where did all this aggression come from. That's some smash mouth physical ball Pack. Did not have alot of faith in this game and I am proud of this team for making me feel stupid. Defense was lights fn out. Datone was a monster and Mike D came to play. First place feels damn good again...GO PACK GO!!

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Tundraboy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:20 pm

Exactly. Could not put it any better. Nice being pleasantly shocked. D was outstanding today and it was great to see entire team come out on fire.

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SpudRapids's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:10 pm

All is right, offense took a big step forward and a lot of it was due to lacy playing like old

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dobber's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:14 pm

OL struggled in protection at times (might have actually been better after Tretter took over at C) and couldn't hold the point in obvious run situations, but those draw plays really seemed to fluster Minny and #27 was trying to punish tacklers. I love power football...

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ray nichkee's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:10 pm

Nice all around game even though Rodgers and the WRs were off at times. Now I hope all the morons will keep their vaginas shut and enjoy the rest of the season. Its just one game but keeping AP in check and see some sacks was nice. Its been long overdue.

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calabasa's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:36 pm

sorry, yuck

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ray nichkee's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:52 pm

Ok.

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ray nichkee's picture

November 24, 2015 at 02:06 pm

I see the moron count is up to 11 now but they are keeping their vaginas shut. I grew up when the packers were a joke, then came playoffs almost every year. Enjoy the ride my friends, I hope it lasts many more years.

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dobber's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:12 pm

A gutsy performance, in general. Good to see this team come out and scratch and claw out a victory. Still some issues protecting #12, but a pretty good game against a quality division opponent in their house.

I think all of us were holding our breath after Rudolph's long TD (here we go again), but the defense regrouped and dominated. Teddy B. looked like he'd had enough by the end of the third, and AP was clearly very frustrated.

Fun to watch.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:42 pm

I think the OL issues are all based on health. None of them are healthy.

I thought Tretter did a really good job. One thing I liked that the coaches did was as soon as he came in the game they had him pulling. Tretter is more athletic then Linsley and they used that athleticism.

Another change that I did like was they brought Walker in as an extra lineman a few times.

Overall I thought the OL played well. On the road against a good defense.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:15 pm

Now those people can shut the phuck up. Nothing spectacular -- just execution and hustle. I had very few issues this game.

- We beat a damn good team.
- We shut down AP.
- Defense hustled and came to tackle.
- Sam Shields should get a game ball.
- The offense looked much better.
- Rodgers still missed a few easy passes, but the TD pass to Jones made up for some of his bad passes.
- Lacy punished the defense.
- Starks played good as usual.
- That Jordy Nelson play (to Janis) got me so hype. I bet next game Janis will have some plays just for him.
- Let's see how many people give props to Datone.
---------------------
- I hate not seeing Starks much after the first half.
- R.Rodgers is too soft to be so big.
- Cobb dropped how many "easy" passes?
- We have to "finish" those should've been sacks.

Now, I'll sit back and count how many times the coaches are mentioned vs. Cobb.

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dobber's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:15 pm

Was I the only one having NFC championship game flashbacks when AP scored to get back within 6?

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:36 pm

That just shows what you think about this team.

The defense was awesome the entire game. I wasn't worried one bit. There's not much offensive power after AP and he was neutralized.

The only thing I can knock the coaches for this game is not playing Starks more, trying to play big boy boy (heavy run formation) and getting cute on kickoffs.

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jmac34's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:51 pm

I was fine with not playing starks in the second because they were feeding the hot hand in Lacy

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:25 pm

@JMac

I agree with the feeding of Lacy, but I don't remember seeing Starks run much at all. There should always be a balance. I also think that's why drives stall after a few nice plays or runs. There's no change of pace from a runner standpoint.

We'd see Lacy run for 6, 2 and then no gain or a loss on a 3rd down to stall the drive.

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Since'61's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:18 pm

The next game is in 4 days. Since Lacy was very effective in this game, they may have decided to keep Starks as fresh as possible for Thursday night. Thanks, Since '61

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NickPerry's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:48 am

No Dobbler, I thought the same thing because of all the FG's. But the offense answered and the defense backed them up. No late game TD's for the Queens!!!

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:53 pm

Offensive coaching staff still deserves criticism. The with the exception of one X Shallow Cross against zone, the offense did little in the ball control passing game, especially in 3rd and medium to short situations. The offensive philosophy has always been about big chunk yardage and run game. Fortunately the running game was productive. It is okay to throw the ball on 3rd and 1, especially against an 8 man front but McCarthy doesn't seem to understand that. Saw far too many vertical stems at 8 yards plus on 3rd and 5-6 against man free coverage. If not for the scrambles by Rodgers the passing game continues to look pedestrian and predictable. Anyone with half a brain and an understanding of football won't blame the coaches for dropped balls and miscommunication on routes. Conversely, anybody who understands the passing game will be able to see how poor the passing game was when Rodgers was kept in the pocket. Minus a well played attempt by Janis on the PI and some boneheaded play by Barr, the halftime score would have been much closer. The offense had great starting field position the first half and could only muster 9 points, this including starting at the Viking 30 after the 70 yard return by Janis. Let's pump the brakes on the offense is back on track mantra.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:19 pm

I totally agree. They have reluctantly started to do some things in the short to intermediate game. I don't think it's enough and there is still way to much damn 11 personnel. In seasons past when the offense was rolling they were multiple and they attacked the whole field. So far, I am extremely disappointed with the total lack of imagination on the part of Clements and Bennett. I call Peter Principle on the two of them.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:33 pm

Are you guys watching the entire game? Do you guys know who's available? How are the Pack going to attack the entire field with such slow receivers? Outside of Janis and Ty (when available) who's flat out out-running their defender?

And about the 11 personnel, I prefer that or throwing out more receivers ( which we don't have available). Going heavy has not been successful for the Pack since I don't know how long now. I'm assuming that's why we rarely see Goal line formations in the Red Zone.

There's no pleasing some people.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:29 am

"Are you guys watching the entire game?"
Sure I did, did you?

"How are the Pack going to attack the entire field..."
They don't need fast receivers to attack the seams and the curl to flat, or run a few rubs, wheels, crossing routes, and screens they just need to call those types of plays more often.

"Do you guys know who's available?"
It's on the publicly available game day roster.

"Going heavy has not been successful..."
Um, putting a FB in front of Lacy today looked pretty damn good today. They should do it more.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:56 pm

Indeed I did watch the entire game....from the pressbox....live and in-person. How about you? Look, you have your opinion and I have mine. The Packers won. Fantastic....BUT if you think the passing offense was much improved you'll be disappointed when teams maintain rush lane discipline and force Rodgers to throw from the pocket because they know the route concepts are predicated on vertical stems resulting in horizontal stretch instead of oblique stretches to attack both man and zone coverages. Minnesota gave up lane discipline allowing Rodgers to create. There are virtually no 3 step concepts to create rhythm or 5 step with hitch to a progression of intermediate to checkdown, crosser, return, hank or stick route. That's why Rodgers ends up holding the ball. He has to wait for the receivers to create via backyard ball instead of progression reading front side concept to backside concept or single if in Trio Formation. The loss of Nelson was big for McCarthy's philosophy in that he won't adjust his philosophy. Coaches scheme to get receivers open past 20 but McCarthy can't or won't. This whole idea the offense has been stagnant recently ignores the pathetic output since week 4. Good coaches adjust. Still waiting for the offense to do that. For all the bellyaching about Capers at least he adjusts scheme, yet all I hear is "fire Capers." Does he make questionable calls? Sure....but Mike does as well. It's just that Rodgers had saved his bacon many times.
So has Rodgers gotten worse as a pocket passer due to diminishing skill? If not, is it because Nelson is gone? If yes, that makes Nelson more important than Rodgers? Nelson's absence means a SuperBowl appearance is a lost cause? Everyone and their uncle would say those are ridiculous assertions. So why the poor passing from the pocket? Running game was improved but pocket passing suffered. All I've heard is once the running game gets going the passing will improve. Didn't happen today. Why? Scheme. Period. It deserves criticism until it improves. Personnel? No issues. How it's used is more concerning and that comes back to scheme.
Look, I'm not saying I'm the end all be all of coaches but I'm not your average beer swilling dude giving armchair analysis. I don't need to be pleased by Green Bay but I sure won't paint all things as rosey just because they won the game. There are a lot of offensive inefficiencies that need correcting and a large part falls on McCarthy.

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cpabandit's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:05 pm

Most of what you wrote sounded awesome though admittedly I had no idea of what the hell you wrote.

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cpabandit's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:04 pm

wow!

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:11 pm

@Paul did you read my initial post? What the hell are you talking about?

I didn't say the Pack's offense is back. I said they improved and that they did nothing spectacular.

How can you point the finger at the scheme when there are WRs dropping open passes, not adjusting their route properly to the defense's coverage post snap and the OLine not effectively pass blocking on a consistent basis?

When things look good - is the scheme different from the scheme you're complaining about? I guess the coaches should go into games with an abundance of schemes, right?

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:35 pm

How did Rodgers play in the pocket? Yes, there was miscommunication between him and receivers. That's not scheme. Yes, there were some drops. That's not scheme either. When it's 3rd & 5 and receivers are sent on vertical stems and no checkdown option or shallow or hank is available for control to keep linebackers from squeezing windows in order to keep the chains moving that's 100% scheme. Ball needs to come out on rhythm in these situations especially against man free 5 man pressures. I like the fact they were more committed to the run but outside of one Fox 2 (this a playaction pass concept) completion to Adams, no play action on early downs. Run/Pass selection on 1st down was mixed better. Some improvement in static set alignment. 3rd down efficiency was horrible and much of that could be remedied by scheme. And yes, they need multiple route concepts to address the coverages they see. Cover 2 beaters, man beaters, fire zone beaters, Cover 3 beaters, etc, etc, etc. Multiple protections...5 man Scat, 6 man, 7 man check release (24/25), 2/3 jet slide protection, Bob protection with a Molly call to handle that 3-4 OLB, etc, etc, etc. This is NFL. These are professionals. This is their job. So yes, multiples of everything are necessary if you are going to have success. You have to have answers for things that are not accounted.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:50 pm

Its hard to say there were no check down options after only watching the game once only from the tv angle. I do remember passes under 5 yards going to Rodgers slow ass though. A check down doesn't necessarily have to be a RB, which was kept in to help block since the defense was blitzing a lot and the oline was poor at blocking at times.

As far as the seam passes go, I too get irked seeing a WR or 2 run deep when its only 3rd and short, but I'm sure there are shorter options built into those plays. Rodgers just loves going for the kill shot. We all know him for doing just that.

Like I said days before this game, this team would win this game and they will be doing the same things ("scheme") with better execution while sprinkling in a few new looks here and there and it played out that way. "Scheme" is not the issue with this team and that was proven today.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:55 pm

Same old same old. The guy who thinks he knows more football than one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. Least according to almost every expert that is covering the game. Just because McCarthy doesn't use the scheme you WANT him to use to make you sound more knowledgable, doesn't mean his scheme is terrible!

I don't know if you realize but McCarthy's passing scheme has built in adjustments that the QB and WR have to read the same in real time while the play is progressing, depending on if its man or zone and also if the man coverage has certain leverages. Which explains why Janis and Adams haven't shown much this year. They aren't up to speed on the adjustments they need to make instantly the same way Rodgers reads it.

If you know so damn much more than McCarthy why the hell aren't you coaching instead of bitching on a fan comment board?

I'm assuming you'll come back that you chose not to make millions instead of thousands.

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Oppy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:01 pm

Uh, dude, you're about to get in waaaay over your head on this one, Dan.

"Paul" coached at a pretty competitive level, from my understanding, and has real knowledge of the game.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:50 pm

Yeah I know. But he's not coaching in the NFL is he? If he knows so much, and I'll give you he knows more than I do, then I guess he's CHOOSING to make thousands instead of Millions? My guess is that the difference in knowledge between him and I is about the same as the difference between McCarthy and him.

If he knows more than McCarthy he should have teams beating his door down to hire him. Instead he's bitching on a fan comment site, not coaching!

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Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:18 pm

If I said it once I've said it 1000 times we need better Bob protection with a Molly call to handle that 3-4 OLB. I'm with you POC!

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Mojo's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:29 pm

Can't say I understand the terminology POC uses, but I get the general gist of his argument. He's been stating it for years that this team has gotten away from the West Coast principals. I think in POC's opinion if they adhered to them more they'd be much more successful offensively.

And if I know nothing more than Stroh vehemently disagrees with him, then I must conclude POC is right on the money.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:05 am

Its not a true west coast offense anymore. Its been adjusted to fit Rodgers abilities and is now a variation of the west coast. In its infancy it started as a West coast offense, but now its beyond that.

http://grantland.com/features/aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-green-bay-pack...

"But the real fun comes from watching Rodgers operate the Packers’ modernized West Coast offense, a system perfectly tailored to his quick release and even quicker mind."

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:04 am

Look POC - We get that you are very knowledgable and have great access regarding football, although bragging about being in the pressbox and belittling other posters is unbecoming.

But we also understand that you hate MM (did he beat you out for a job or something?). I believe that taints your analysis, rendering it somewhat useless.

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NickPerry's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:51 am

I think having Quarless back will help with that. Montgomery too. All game long I kept thinking how effective Ty would have been at specific times like 3rd and 1, especially with Cobb struggling to catch the ball.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:45 pm

Shout out to @Nick . He gets it.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:39 pm

You and I have went back and forth with play calling/scheming. Honestly I didn't see anything really different other then Lacy got rejuvenated and played his ass off. And provided a consistent running threat. The coaches stuck with the hot hand and I'm good with that. I thought they made the right decision there.

I still would have liked to have seen more different looks on offense though. To much 11 personnel still. I thought the Vikings played off coverage more which played to the strength of the Packers and less to their weakness.

I would have liked to have seen more Janis also. I know there is a trust issue there, but let's face it, the guy makes plays. That KR jump started the team after giving up a TD. And then he has the pass interference penalty that gave them life right before halftime. I thought Janis did a good job on the 2 deep balls, but Rodgers was off on his throws. Let's face it. Until he proves that he shouldn't be played he deserves some playing time.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:12 pm

Totally agree

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:59 pm

Lol, come on @RC. Kinda sounds like you don't want to fully give props to the coaches.

"Vikings played off coverage more which played to the strength of the Packers"

No matter how much we beat a team by or how good we look from here on out the coaches will never get their full credit I see. It's cool.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:12 pm

Dre. What did the coaches do schematically different? If the coaches changed up a bunch of stuff and they won because of that, then I would give them credit. I will credit them for getting the team motivated to play a physical game.

I just didn't really see them make any adjustments. It was more/less just execution was better. I give the coaches props when it's due. I don't think its really due just because they won.

I will give Capers credit because he brought a lot of different blitzes.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:26 pm

@RC But that's my point.

During those 3 losses the blame seemed like it was 70/30 with the majority going to the coaches. Fire this guy. We need to do some of this more. We should play this guy more. We shouldn't do these types of plays. The Packers did what the Packers do, but this game execution was much better and the hustle was there. Players played closer to their potential. But the only credit given to the coaches is getting the team ready. Some of y'all kill me. Lol.

Did Palmer start and play this entire game? What was different? Why is Capers now getting a pat on the back? Ohhhhh....

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:07 am

Dre - you and RC are trying to use logic! That is expressly forbidden here under the CHTV operating agreement.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:34 am

I admitted in the Lions game that it was mostly execution that lost that game.

My reasons for blaming the coaches was because when the team was and still is struggling a bit, they really didn't do anything to change it. They kept doing the exact same thing over and over again even though it was doing nothing. Good coaches know the pulse of their teams. They know when they have to make adjustments to get the team going. That part has been lacking.

My whole point right now is, even though we won, and the offense did look better, its still not where we want it to be. Part of the problem is still their scheming. I think they still need to do more scheme wise to get the most out of this team.
I thought they did a few things that better fits this team. They went back to using the Pistol more. That fits the offense better. I wouldn't mind seeing them taking Rodgers out some and using Ripkowski or Kuhn, a little more. Lacy is great with a FB in front of him. Another thing that I liked is they ran a play with Janis running deep. They did that 2x's. At least taking shots like that, keeps defenses honest a bit.

Their talent level isn't as good as what it has been in the past when they could get by running their system. I would still like to see them do more to create different looks for defenses.
I thought the Vikings were playing more off coverage which allowed the WR's more room to run. The last 3 games we saw a lot more press coverage, which the WR's weren't able to get a lot of separation.

While the offense played better in this game then they have any of the last 3 games, it was more based on Lacy having a great game then it was the coaches doing anything different. If Lacy doesn't have a great game, is the offense that much improved? If the Vikings get up into press coverage more do we see the WR's getting as open?

At the end of the day though. Great win. Against a good team on the road.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:47 am

Ok @RC we're going to agree to disagree because I see you're going to blame the coaches regardless of a game's outcome. But let's leave it here...

When we get key players on offense healthy:

Do you think the offense will be more efficient?
Do you think the offense will have an easier time scoring?
Do you think Rodgers will look more like the MVP Rodgers?

If yes, I bet you the "scheme" doesn't change between now and then. I bet you the coaches will have better options and with better options comes better execution and with better execution comes better results and with better results comes happier fans.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 11:09 am

@ Drealyn
We just aren't seeing eye to eye on this...

You are correct. with better players their scheme will look better and work better. My point has been with lesser talented players they have to adjust things more. Right now I think they need to make adjustments to the players they have on the field more. The players they have had on the field haven't been able to get open as easily so the coaches need to do different things to get them open.

When they have Nelson, he is so good that they can do what they want because he is that good. They don't have him, but are trying to run the same offense they had with him. Well defenses are playing their offense differently because they no longer have him on the roster.

They need to make the adjustments to the players they have.

One scheme change they made and it worked. They put Lacy in the pistol. They blended their scheme to fit Lacy's strength. They need to do more of this.

The offense wasn't great on Sunday. They were good and a lot better then we have seen lately, but still not to the level that we are accustomed to seeing.
Perhaps that can be cured with scheme adjustments. Perhaps that can be cured with healthier players.

Either way. We just got a huge win. Lets enjoy it.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:58 pm

Show me a great offense with:

No WR1 and No TE threat

I don't think this Offense will ever be "great" without Jordy. They can still be damn good and I think they're getting better. Let Ty and Quarless heal up and throw them in there with the rest. You can design the best play(s) ever but if you have players that can't execute the play(s) right then you're back to square 1 -- do what you know best.

I think your expectations might be a bit too high for a team without it's best WR.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 01:22 pm

I don't think the offense will be like we have seen in the past. But they can be very, very good with the players it has. IMO, they just need to make adjustments to get the most out of them. I think they need to adjust what they do more to fit the players they have, versus trying to make its players fit what they are trying to do.

If Montgomery can come back that would really help our offense. He has the ability to create mismatches, and also brings out the creativity in Clements.

Here is my question for you. If Rodgers is not a threat as a TE, why is he playing as much as he is? Why not use other players that can be a threat? Use Ripkowski (I love saying his name) or Kuhn. Maybe bring in another WR. To me they run the 11 personnel to much which limits them on offense.
Last year the offense was at its best at the end of the year when it went to 3 WR's, 2 RB's. I would like to see them do that a little bit more.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 03:02 pm

"If Rodgers is not a threat as a TE, why is he playing as much as he is?"

Maybe because the coaches feel he has the best hands of the TE group. I think he has the highest ceiling of them all.

Let me counter your question with this one:

Why did we start MD Jennings for 16 games?

Here's another question:

You mentioned Ty can bring the creativity out of Clements - why haven't you mentioned any other player that can bring out creativity?

Maybe because the rest are so limited??? See where I'm going with this...?

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 03:25 pm

Rodgers does have the best hands of the TE group. He is the most experienced of the TE group. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is better then the 4th WR or FB.
To me they should use them more and him less. He isn't a great blocker, Kuhn and/or Ripkowski can do just as good of a job. He does have good hands even though he has had some drops. But he is no threat as a Receiver to run after the catch. He is like Bubba Franks. Redzone target only...
I would prefer to see other players play more and him less.. He kind of limits the offense.

They started Jennings because they didn't have another option. Not the same with Rodgers. They can play him less and other players more. They don't have to have a TE on the field for every play of the game.

Montgomery is like Cobb. He can be used in different ways. No other WR's on the roster are like them.
But that doesn't mean they can't get more creative in their formations with who is on the field. Stacking WR's and running rub routes, crossing routes stuff like that, that naturally gets WR's open.

Your talking about lesser talent is the problem. Trust me I agree. But my opinion is that when you have lesser talent you have to do more schematically to get the most out of that talent you do have.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 04:43 pm

Ok, so now I'm getting you on my side. So we agree the talent isn't there just yet.

We agree R.Rodgers isn't a threat, but you'd like to see him replaced by some other TE, a WR or a FB, right? Who else is going to come in and be expected to produce consistently? No other player will have that much responsibility on their plate this early. Everyone past Ty and R.Rodgers on the depth chart are role players or whatever is lower than a roleplayer. They get their few snaps here and there, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to become consistent playmakers. No matter what play is called or designed.

You don't want to dumb your system down so much that it strips the critical elements of your passing game. I'm assuming it's already been dialed back a notch or two since Jordy's been gone.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:21 am

No. I don't want to be on the wrong side. lol...
BTW, this is the longest back and forth I have gone on a subject on here.

We agree about Rodgers. So what I'm saying is, instead of using Rodgers 90% of plays on offense. cut him back to 60-70%. Start using other people that extra 30% or whatever. Use 4 WR sets more, use the FB's more. I think they could easily put in a FB and take Rodgers out. They actually did that last year. They went to the Pistol with a FB and 3 WR's and made that their base formation on offense.

No you don't want to dumb down your offense. And I don't think they would have to with the players they have. The biggest thing I want to see them do, is to change their personnel a little more. Go to 2 TE sets, Use 4 WR's, use No TE's. change it up more rather then to run the same 11 personnel down after down.

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The TKstinator's picture

November 24, 2015 at 08:57 pm

I think it's fun when the column gets this narrow.

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KenEllis's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:20 pm

The best part is the Pack won and did not even play that well on offense. Lacy was good as was James Jones, but Cobb? Aaron 16-34? Sacks, pressures, penalties on the OLine.

Also, Hyde cannot be allowed any roles other than punt returner and last man in the defensive backfield. He is so, so slow.

As for Janis, I've never written about him, but it was nice to see some speed on the field.

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:40 pm

I hate to say it, but the secondary played much better after Hyde was lost to injury. He gets picked on so often, for good reason.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:30 pm

I really don't get why they were using Hyde as a KR after Montgomery got hurt. There is no threat with Hyde. Janis proved he can be a weapon in the return game. The game could've been completely different if he doesn't return it that far.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:14 pm

Janis's long return only resulted in a FG. So it wasn't that dramatic of a difference in the game. Sure it helped the Packers get the ball in FG range, but the impact was relatively negligible. I'm assuming they feel that Hyde's ball security is much better than Janis' and on that I totally agree. I trust Hyde far more than Janis.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:46 am

For me that was a turning point in the game. Vikings just went down and scored a TD to go up by 3. The very next kick off Janis has a huge return on it. Taking away some of the momentum that the Vikings just earned.

While the offense did nothing, Janis' return allowed them to be in field goal range which yielded a FG. If the offense does the same thing, but is on their 20 (which is about where they would have been if Hyde returns that kick), they are punting after going 3 and out and giving the Vikings a lot of momentum. Them getting a FG to tie the game up to me was a pivotal point in the game.

For me, I don't get the ball security issue with Janis, because I don't think he has had any ball security issues during any games? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure its a trust issue with the coaches. I just look at the big play potential that Janis brings, and hope they use him moving forward.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 02:45 pm

Yes it was a turning point and Janis should play more.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:22 am

Yes!

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croatpackfan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 05:59 am

I can not remember well who stopped 104 yards kick return against Detroit when all the fastest Packers guy gave hands up? I think (it is foogy) it was one so, so slow guy. I think I heard he was injured during that play, isn't he?
And, yes, packers have problems. Their No 1. PR is one guy who is so, so slow, that he did returned no punt for TD while he was and is PR.
Those stupid coaches. Why they do not see thathe is so, so slow...

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Since'61's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:24 pm

Good win for the Pack on the road.
Defense played great for most of the game.
Love that they held AP in check for the whole game
Lacy ran strong
Crosby 5/5!
OL better but not really solid, especially Bakthiari. 3 penalties and at least one sack allowed.
Too many dropped passes, especially Cobb,what's up with him?
A. Rodgers still a little off but can't really complain about 30 points against a good defense on the road. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61

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real some guy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:27 pm

i give the coaching staff a lot of grief - and they've deserved it.

I'll give them credit now for the offensive game plan. Helps when the running game is working but the protections and routes were noticeably different. For the first time in a long time I didn't know what was coming - except for those 2 yard out routes that will eventually result in a receiver blowing their knees.

Still need to open it up more and throw to the backs out of the backfield. some more crossing routes out of bunch formations would be great too.

The Vikes really hurt themselves today. should have been much tighter. The defense was solid outside of some blown assignments

All in all, a very solid performance. I want to see more Jake Ryan

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croatpackfan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:03 am

Paul Ott Carruth, as stated here, one of the best football educated persons amongs us, said that there was no new schemes. So, I must ask you, did you watch the same game as he does? Now I do not know to whome I should believe...

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:17 am

But POC watched from the pressbox my Croatian friend!? He's written guest columns here. He must be smarter than the rest of us, he'll quickly tell you so.

There's a difference between intelligent people who graciously explain their knowledge and know-it-alls. POC is a know-it-all.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:55 am

One can learn just as well from an intelligent person who graciously shares their knowledge as from a know-it-all. The latter has a pejorative connotation.

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Wenis's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:01 am

I think Paul Ott Carruth gives a pretty good breakdown of just what the Packers are and aren't doing. It would be a shame if he ever stopped posting. I for one may not agree with everything he posts but he is very accurate and at least breaks down in real football terms his analysis. I must agree with his stated comments that "Martyball" McCarthy fails to adjust when things go into the crapper. Its almost as if he is too fkn stubborn to think outside his stated gameplan. Its almost as if the Packers have wob despite McCarthy being hard-headed. Think I am wrong just watch his interviews. The guy refuses to take any responsibility and/or criticism.

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Packer_Pete's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:31 pm

Defense won this game! Datone played real well. I didn't think they could stop the run and get after the QB but they did. Vikings is just an OK team though. This win was big for getting into the playoffs given the other results.
Offense was still off. But getting Lacy back on track was the biggest factor today IMHO.

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dobber's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:10 pm

"Vikings is just an OK team though. "

Given the Packers just lost at home to one of the worst teams in the league, I'll take a win against an OK team on the road... ;)

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 23, 2015 at 01:00 am

Clearly Datone had a fine game. Daniels had a strong game as well. But the beast on the defensive line was Raji. His role is a tough one: despite playing well Raji does not appear in the box score at all.

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Queenlizzie13's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:32 pm

Datone was a beast this game. Nice to see the old Lacy back! Running like himself.

Offense was still a little off - beginning to think it's a timing issue more than anything else. Rodgers alluded to it in his press conference. Rodgers not expecting receiver to run the route they are. Like he said Janis ran the missed long play a little flatter than he thought and he just missed.

They'll get it together I think especially if the oline gives them time and lacy runs well.

Nice bounce back game from Mason Crosby. Defense finally finally got after the QB. Nice sacking. Wasn't Datone being moved around this game ala matthews last year? Whatever Capers did worked - at least for this game.

Only a few more days before we get to enjoy another game! Go pack go.

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Queenlizzie13's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:34 pm

also game proved Janis needs to be used more. Idc if it's kickoff/punt returns or during plays. something. get him involved!

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tm_inter's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:19 am

Give the ball to Janis in an open field and he'll outrun the defense. The coaches should come up with a few plays that makes good use of Janis' speed.

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Crackerpacker's picture

November 24, 2015 at 05:12 am

Just before the play with the 50 yard pi call the TV showed the packers huddle where you seen Rodgers explaining the next play to Janis, If this is helpful to inexperienced players and gets everyone on the same page why don't we drop the no Huddle I would be interested in views.

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jmac34's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:38 pm

Where did this come from? I was ready to write this team off after last week. This is some crow that should go down fairly easily

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:43 pm

Hope some knows a good recipe for crow, because a lot of it will eaten tomorrow. Mostly by us fans.

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:43 pm

Datone roaming positions seemed to work well. He was near dominant 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 2 sacks, 1 pass defensed.

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Rossonero's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:48 pm

Looked like a different team tonight....more fire from McCarthy on the sidelines, lots of pressure on Bridgewater, deep throw attempts to Janis, trash talking on the field, some scuffles, big hits, Lacy grinding it out....Love it. Could be the turning point in the season.

Tonight is what I wanted to see:
1. some new plays unveiled that teams did not have film on yet
2. Let Rodgers throw it deep finally (even if both attempts to Janis were incomplete, the 37 harder to Jones was awesome)
3. Finally some FIRE and passion from this team!

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wimiller's picture

November 22, 2015 at 07:48 pm

amazing what a little passion and pride on D will do, but what this game shows too is how valuable a good tight end is, and unfortunately he was in purple. without him they had zilch.

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:07 pm

That's what I'm talking about!

Great game by Datone. Crosby was solid. People criticize AR for looking for shots down the field. It paid off today. Eddie, you're the man.

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:21 pm

......WR...................................LT...LG...C...RG...RT..................WR................................W
..........................................................................HB
.............................................................QB........RB

Anyone notice this formation/ protection scheme? I've never seen it before. Kind of a strong side half full house set with Rodgers in the gun. Seemed to work well in the second half.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:11 pm

Green Bay runs this formation quite a bit. It's essentially what we call a King or Queen set from the gun. Packers typically use 11 personnel but will also use 20 and 21 to run it. Lacy or Starks off-set. If Rodgers were under center they would be at 7 yds deep directly behind Rodgers with the FB or TE (U) offset to TE/B receiver making it a King set or away making it a Queen. From the gun the protection scheme they seem to use the most is 2 or 3 Jet protection which is a slide protection or 74/75 protection which is 7 man protection with check release weak side pattern flow from the backs. It's nothing new really.

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NickPerry's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:01 am

DAMN!!! Nice breakdown Paul, thanks!

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PackerAaron's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:21 am

I tend to think we saw a lot of this vs MIN because of Zimmer's penchant for A gap pressure. Gives Aaron two guys to adjust if he sees fit.

In fact, on one play, he was so concerned with the A gap he completely missed a blitz from the slot. Zimmer is good, and this formation was a smart counter from McCarthy in the game plan,

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:45 am

The biggest mystery here is how POC got 2 dislikes for his excellent summary. I really would like to know who likes and dislikes various posts.

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

November 23, 2015 at 11:41 am

Thanks POC, appreciate your insight!

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Bohj's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:43 pm

- Ditka removed the sweater and the curse
- The Packer Jersey in the bleachers trick.....works every time
- McCarthy coached teams get better as the season goes on.....we got 6-0 spoiled
- Playcalling or not...I liked seeing that headset and clipboard on McCarthy.

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FITZCORE1252's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:23 pm

Whew...

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:41 pm

You spelled Wow wrong.

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:41 pm

You spelled Wow wrong.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:53 pm

Not play wise, but formation wise I liked them using the Pistol more again. They started using it more last week.

I didn't see much change. Just better execution. They got the job done.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:35 pm

So what did you all see differently (play wise) from the team today? Don't worry, I'll wait...

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:41 pm

The real Packers showed up?

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:00 pm

The players did...yep

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:39 pm

I'm relieved. I was totally dumbfounded after the lolions game. But the lolions aren't as bad as their record either. A win by 17 on the road against anyone is great. This viking team my not be as good as their record, but they were playing good football. Maybe Raji was playing hurt, because he looked like the guy in the 1st few games today. Get Lacy healthy and this team is much better. The year AR was hurt, he carried this team on his back with a bum ankle. Hopefully the bad stretch of football is over and now we can feast on Bear Thursday night.
GOPACKGO!!!!!!!!!

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4thand1's picture

November 22, 2015 at 08:48 pm

The TD to Jones makes up for at least 10 incompletions. I don't think there's another QB that can make that pass. Cobb, WTF, catch the dam ball.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:22 pm

That was one hell of a throw and catch. Where has that been?

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Evan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:12 pm

Well, that was certainly more enjoyable. Why can't this defense bring this intensity and tackling each week. If they can shut down AP (who, if you weren't aware, is a total piece of shit), there is no reason any RB should be running wild on them.

Also, for the record, I broke out my old Reggie White jersey for this game, so I'm taking at least 5% of the credit.

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Mojo's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:45 pm

I noticed the good tackling too. Not only did they swarm in mass to the ball, but had good fundamentals on the actual tackle. A lot of wrapping up around the legs and bringing the player down instead of the kill shots where they the opponent bounces off and tack on cheap yards.

Why don't they do this all the time?

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 08:52 am

The defense was much more aggressive. I love when Capers gets into the attacking, aggressive mindset.
When the defense is attacking it seems to play more physical. When they are playing coverage they seem to play soft. I love the blitzes he was sending in this game.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:33 pm

Happy, Happy, Happy. D was outstanding. Held down AP all day. 6 Sacks. etc. Lots of positives.

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bratwursted's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:36 pm

Proud of the team for not caving in to adversity and frustration and getting a tough division road win. The offense is just going to have gut it out, fight for everything more than they have in the past. Defense won this game will have to be the bulwark of the team down the stretch. Hopefully I won't get indigestion facing the Bears on Thanksgiving (at least there's plenty of wine).

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Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

November 22, 2015 at 09:45 pm

Great team victory and desperately needed. Clean up the dropped passes, get Rodgers in synch with his receivers, and get some more people healed up and we'll be ready for a good run. I expect this team to be way up for the Bears at home and a big victory. I highly doubt we will lose to the Lions again. Then a 10 day mini-bye for everyone to heal.

Nit to pick: Masthay has to see that guy coming and adjust his punt a bit. He's had a pretty brutal year.

Great game by Datone, Raji, and Daniels (loved that one handed sack). Looked like Matthews was keying/ mirroring AP ad was the big reason he only had 45 yards. He continues to just make big play after big play.

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Idiot Fan's picture

November 22, 2015 at 10:33 pm

I'm not a card-carrying member of the Janis Fan Club, but my goodness, that first kickoff looked like he was shot out of a cannon.

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10 digits's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:01 pm

I don't recall a season when the fan base has been more right regarding what needs to be done to fix things.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:43 pm

Insert rimshot here

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Oppy's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:11 pm

It's not all fixed, but I was very pleased that most of the points of concern seemed to have the arrow pointing up tonight.

In a game with division lead on the line, against a 5 win streak team on the 'road':

Crosby comes off the worst kick ever last week to smoke 5 beautiful FGs

After a two plus week drought of sacks, the Packers light up a shifty Teddy B. for 5 of 'em.

AP total yards, <60

O line, not perfect, but improved for sure

Eddy Lacy runs like.. Well, like Eddy Lacy. Near 5 YPC on a 100+ yard performance.

After an abysmal few weeks of offense, Pack hang 30 on the #3 D in the league in terms of points allowed per game (18.4)

... Again, not fixed, but arrows pointing up in most of the trouble areas

Best part? All those upstart vikings fans can eat a bunch of crow.

#andstill

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 08:04 am

I agree.

Its not completely fixed yet. That is good news. If they can go on the road, and play a very good Vikings team, while still not playing their best on offense. I think that is a very god sign.

On offense still to many dropped passes, and a few off target throws. If they can get that cleaned up it will really help the offense out.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 22, 2015 at 11:29 pm

So no more fire Capers? Come on, guys. You're no fun now.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:59 am

I haven't been in the Fire Capers boat.

The only thing I don't get with him is how there will be a 1-2 game stretch every year where it feels like he is playing soft. Playing everyone more in coverage.

Like in the Vikings game he sent a lot of different blitzes.

This defense is better when its attacking. When they are backing off is when they seem to get beat.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:56 am

That wasn't directed at you then @RC.

But giving an example, during that Chargers game what DIDN'T he call though? He tried everything. NOTHING seemed to work (when trying to pressure or sack the QB).

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 11:15 am

I didn't say it was. I just wanted to say that I haven't been in that boat. :)

I would have to go back and look at the Chargers game to see what happened there.

In this game didn't it just feel like he was attacking more though? Perhaps he was attacking more because they are more of a rushing team then passing team? Perhaps he played more coverage against the Chargers because they are more of a passing team then running team?

Either way, in this game the defense was just more aggressive. I have to give the coaches props in this game for getting the defense to play with such aggression and intensity.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

November 23, 2015 at 11:46 am

Definitely. I think he made that decision (a great one) knowing Bridgewater is still young and can't process things as quick as other vets, so he never hesitated to bring extra rushers. There were open receivers, but Bridgewater rarely got off his initial read.

During that Chargers game,Dom tried coverage first, got ate up. Tried zone, really got ate up. Tried bringing extra rushers, didn't get home. The only thing that slowed the Chargers down was the field getting shorter lol.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:27 am

Yeah, I think so to.

I like it more when Capers is more aggressive and bringing blitzes from everywhere. Blitzing CB's, Safety's, LB's, dropping DL into coverage. When he sits back and plays coverage all game the defense gets soft.

I remember they did a good job in the Redzone, although Rivers missed a couple of TD throws.

If the defense can play with the intensity that it played with Sunday, and tackle like it did, this defense will be one of the best in the league heading into the playoffs.
I want to see Capers stay aggressive.

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Mojo's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:15 am

The D won this game. And Crosby's foot.

On offense JJ made two fantastic catches and the unit didn't have any TO's which helped greatly. Running Lacy wide on third and one, not a good idea. Eddie did run well between the tackles. He's very good running forward not at all laterally.

Wonder how Tretter grades out. If they can afford an injury on the o-line, center might be it.

DATONE was the one tonight. The sack on Bridgewater (I think his first was very impressive). Closed very quickly considering Teddy was 10 yards away and backpedaling.

If Viking fans whine about the calls, they need to keep in mind a blatant non-call on an obvious grounding throw that saved them around 15 yards.

Know Hyde took some flack on the Rudolph TD, but that was a perfect throw. Maybe you could criticize him for not bringing him down right away, but he was off balance after trying to swat if away. Still, it didn't look good.

Could care less about Cobbs drops. He'll make more than his share of tough catches in the future. JJ had a few drops, but later two spectacular catches.

Real nice division win. On Thanksgiving they need to bury Chicago and give the man of the night - Bart Starr - a game to remember.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:59 pm

Yes, Bart!

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tm_inter's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:30 am

Go Pack Go!

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marpag1's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:53 am

Same ol' same ol' around here. Fans still thinking that one game means the season is over/saved, posters still bitching at each other with superior knowledge even after victory, Ted Tomsin/Thompson tWins/Thompson Trumps still posting under a different alias, Mike McCarthy still the demon-spawn of Lucifer and Genghis Khan, and the Bears still suck. Sounds about right.

- The O-line played better, and Tretter validated his roster spot. He certainly wasn't perfect, but the coaches might want to keep him in for a while. Even if Linsley's ankle is OK, it seems that a little competition would be healthy. It seems clear that Linsley is in a sophomore slump.

- David Bakhtiari was awful again. Three penalties with a fourth offset and nullified. He's giving up lots of pressure, and he's certainly nothing special in the run game. He's just bad this year.

- Randall Cobb needs to look in the mirror. Hard.

- ARod is still sporting that deer in the headlights look. His body language sucks. And even though the game went better, his accuracy still leaves a lot to be desired.

- Yes, a ton of props to Datone, but Daniels was a monster too, and Raji consistently pressed the pocket.

- Of all the problems with our out-of-sync offense, nothing infuriates me so much as all of the time outs burned simply because we can't get a play off before the play clock expires. What the hell is that??

- The Vikings aren't as great as their rep.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 08:09 am

One thing I noticed that the coaches did right away when Tretter went in was they pulled him on a running play. Tretter has more quickness then Linsley. Linsley is more of a power guy. I did like that they used Tretter's athleticism to their advantage.

To many wasted timeouts. Way to many. That is becoming a bad theme for this offense. Is it coaches not getting plays in fast enough? Is it players just not getting lined up fast enough? Is Rodgers not relaying the play call fast enough? Whatever the case they need to stop burning timeouts like they are.

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Wenis's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:39 am

Donald Trumps aka InTedItrust, Goldfinger etc, etc, etc....... LOL this guy is comedy gold. I sure miss him getting Landeuce "manjeuce" all spun up on the old Bears yahoo board.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 23, 2015 at 02:06 am

The defense looked very good. It is amazing how much better they look with a strong games from Raji. Daniels had a good game; Datone had an excellent game. I thought CM3 looked towards AP first, but he also had a good game. Peppers contributed nicely. Randall is fortunate that Bridgewater can't throw deep. On the 15 yard crosser he gave up Randall got rubbed off just a bit, so it is understandable but he needs to fight through that better. Shields played well, with some nice run support, same for Dix and Burnett. The D played with energy.

The offense scored 30 points against a decent to pretty good D. That said, they got a lot of help from MN and the refs at times, good for 3 1st downs by penalty. 2nd FG was due to the Janis KR (the offense gained 5 yards and kicked the FG.) The TD at the half was by a 50 yard PI, then roughing Rodgers which was offset by Bakh's hold, so new life on 3rd & 9 at the 15, then Barr's illegal contact gave us a 1st. On the 3rd pass Rodgers connected w Cobb for the TD, making it 16-6 at the half instead of 9 or 12-6. Big difference. The final 3 pts came after MN failed when they went for it on 4th and 2 at their own 33. Our offense managed to lose a yard on 3 plays and kick a 52 yard FG. Bakh still really struggled. Bulaga looked bad early, but threw some nice run blocks: still, Bulaga seems to get walked back more often, and farther, especially inside rather than pushing the rusher wide than I remember in prior years.

Still, I see shades of all of the offensive issues that have been discussed all week, nor did I see much change in the schemes. MN out-gained us, and the TOP was 30:22GB to 29:38 for MN.

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Idiot Fan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 08:47 am

That D is legit (3rd in the league in points against, I believe). Even though the offense was frustrating at times, 30 points on the road against that D is an encouraging sign.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 24, 2015 at 02:49 am

I am thinking that the D is legit when Raji is healthy and plays well. Looked to me like the D took a step back while Raji was hurt. While I think Raji's fine play helps the DEs a lot, I am open to the notion that Daniels' strong game and Datone's fine game helped Raji play well. Perhaps a few more games are needed to detect the pattern. In any event, I don't mean to take anything away from Datone's and Daniels' fine games.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:13 am

Yeah I agree with you. The offense isn't fixed. They played better but it isn't fixed yet. It is being covered up a bit by the win.

I still think they need to do more schematically, with the players it has. I would like to see a little more of Ripkowski and/or Kuhn as opposed to Rodgers.

I saw a few things I liked, but still not there yet.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:04 pm

My thoughts exactly.

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chs's picture

November 23, 2015 at 02:38 am

I loved the Defensive intensity, it was refreshing, Mason was Money in the Bank, Eddie was a nice surprise that even Minn didn't expect. Rodgers was Rodgers again WOW, Happy Bday to me this Weekend, umh umh, "Joy to the... what's that" save it for next week okay.

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Farts_After_Wins's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:41 am

*poot*

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Oppy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:49 pm

You have no idea how much I have missed your wafting aroma.

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jh9's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:57 pm

Whew! We needed that win.
These last three weeks have been miserable. I don’t ever want to feel that way again!
Although we had too many dropped passes, our passing game showed some signs of life.
AR looked more like his old self. (Thank god!)
It was nice to see Lacy bustin’ some moves. We need that dude!
JJ can wear a hoodie any time he wants.
I was proud of our defense. I still don’t understand why they didn’t show up against Denver and Carolina.
We need the defense to play the way they played today every game for us to have a chance at another Lombardi Trophy.
Daniels, Datone, Matthews, and Shields all played great.
I hope we hit rock bottom last week, and the Vikings game was the start of a ten-game winning streak!

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Tundraboy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:06 pm

All sounds good to me.

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TommyG's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:16 am

Love the win! I mean that, I love this win. But there are some glaring issues with this offense. The running scheme looked better. Lots of runs with a lead blocker. That I think had more to do with Lacy's big day as anything. The passing game still looks very familiar. We have all been screaming on this page for crossing routes and screen plays. When those were the calls they seemed to work. Other than that our receivers were still running those deep routes. Yes, the big grab by jones worked, and that masks a lot of issues. AR completed less than half of his passes. If not for our defense and masons leg this game would've looked a lot different. Yes, I realize this was against a good team. Our team really stepped up today. But I don't want us all to jump back in the wagon after one showing against a division rival. It took three loses before we all lost our minds. Let's take three games before we declare that this team is back.

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PaulRosik's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:31 am

They did seem to get into the Vikings head in this game. It was like the VIkes expected to be able to sock the Packers in the mouth and have them cave and when they fought back so hard it got them confused. Winter is coming! (wonder where I heard that before) and time for the defense to play tough and mean up front.

30 on the road against a good defense and still missed opportunities. We may still see some good stuff the rest of this year.

After last week's line drive ugly whatever the heck that was final kick it was great to see Crosby be such a big weapon in the game.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 23, 2015 at 12:14 pm

Why do I opine on this site? Simple. I can. Why does it matter to you if I make millions as opposed to thousands? In fact, how do you know I’m not making millions right now? Could it be possible I’m making millions from my various investments outside of football? Perhaps I’m doing some consulting work as we speak. Here’s a newsflash Dan: coaches and players have lives outside of football. Some even have social media accounts. Many even chime in on chat boards such as this. I came across this site by happenstance and found it to be quite good. You may find this hard to believe, but I find many of the posters and contributors on this site quite knowledgeable. In fact, you provide some salient points more often than not but when corrected with factual evidence, you seem to take offense and have to get in the last word. You state, “If he knows more than McCarthy, he should have teams beating door down to hire him.” How do you know my door isn’t about to cave in from all the knocking?” You don’t. And why does it matter? Coach Walsh was one of the smartest men to coach this great game and yet he retired, not because the game had passed him by, but from exhaustion and internal tension within the organization. This game takes a toll. You think teams weren’t trying to bring him out of retirement prior to his second stint at Stanford. I may or may not enter the full-time coaching realm again. I’ve been associated with organizations that have been to the mountain top and in the dumpster. I’ll get in the game again when the time is right. That time may be never. Who knows. You go on to say, “the difference between POC and me is much smaller than the difference between myself and you.” I believe you were in a spat with another poster. In any event, you wouldn’t have the slightest clue as to how big the gap is between me and you and our relative football acumen. Please tell me why the Green Bay decided to off-set both backs/U in the gun? I can’t say for certain (only because I wasn’t on the sideline) but it sure looked like 74 or 78 protection (old WCO protection terminology) used specifically for weak safety blitz and 4 man weak side pressures. Did you notice Minnesota brought a couple of those yesterday? I did. Did you ? A poster asked about that very backfield look and was able to offer analysis. Could you have done that? Do you understand how protection schemes affect availability of receivers in the passing game? If I tell you the offensive line identifies a Navajo front will you think they’ve spotted a Native American player amongst the defense or will you be able to clearly understand that Navajo denotes a 46 front, causing the OT to take open and take either the Sam or Buck linebacker when given 322 Protection? You wouldn’t because, based on your posts, you have no experience with matters such as these. This doesn’t make you stupid. It makes you ignorant because you simply don’t know. There isn’t anything wrong with that. You sound stupid when you try to pretend that you have some breadth of knowledge regarding this game. I’m not asking for deference in terms of football opinion. You want to disagree with me. Fair enough. But don’t pretend that you’ve pulled some “gotcha.” If I wanted to, I could make your head spin when it comes to football knowledge but I don’t want to write a book here. By the way, Mike has no more knowledge of football than I do. I could jump in the offensive staff room and be fairly confident I could understand the concepts even if the nomenclature has changed somewhat. My main concern is his offensive philosophy considering the absence of Nelson and in situations when, even with Nelson available, his vertical stem philosophy is challenged and neutered. It has happened in the past.
WKUPackFan: No, I wasn’t beat out for a job by Mike. You’d have to throw your hat in the ring for that to happen. Why would I hate him? He’s a good coach. He is an excellent QB coach as is evidenced with #12’s development from the Tedford school of QB mechanics to today. Favre finally had coaching after an 7 year absence since Holmgren had left. It showed too. If you feel my comments came off as belittling, so be it. The fact I watched the game from above was in response to a terse comment from another poster who questioned whether or not I actually watched the game. The connotation being, “do you know what you’re talking about? I’m not a know-it-all, but I think I can hold my own in a football related conversation. Anytime you’d like to have one, let me know.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 23, 2015 at 01:08 pm

'My main concern is his offensive philosophy considering the absence of Nelson and in situations when, even with Nelson available, his vertical stem philosophy is challenged and neutered. It has happened in the past.'

That is one of my main concerns as well.
I have been saying that I would like to see changes made schematically. That the coaches haven't adjusted their offense to the players they currently have enough. Their offense last year worked because they had Nelson (one of the best WR's in the league). But without Nelson, teams are playing them different defensively and it has not allowed the receivers to get open as easily. It doesn't help that they have been injured at WR, but that should be even more reason to adjust what they do offensively.
Also, it feels like they are trying to use Rodgers the same way they used Finley. They are not the same type of player. I think they need to find ways to use Rodgers in a more traditional TE type of role. Use him more like how the Steelers use Miller, or how Denver uses Daniels. If Rodgers is going to be spread out, I would prefer they bring in a 4th WR.

In the Vikings game WR's were still not getting open. A lot of the bigger plays came when Rodgers scrambled out of the pocket and bought time, allowing WR's to find their way open.
I think they need to do more schematically to get WR's open. That would be to use more personnel packages, using different formations, just creating different looks. And in the passing routes, I think they need to have more shorter routes incorporated into each pass play. It seems like most of their passing plays either go short or deep (watching on TV). They need to do more to get the ball out faster.

One change that I have been wanting to see again was for them to use the Pistol Formation more. It blends Rodgers ability as a QB with Lacy's ability as a downhill runner. That to me is the Packers ideal formation and they should use that moving forward. They started using more of it last week, but this week with Lacy it really works well.
Now I would like to see them make some adjustments in the passing game.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:16 pm

Have you seen R. Rodgers running pass routes vertically like Finley did? I havent at all. Just becuz he splits out wide or in the slot doesn't mean he's running the same routes they had designed for Finley.

It not like lining up Rodgers as a traditional TE on the LOS is going to make him any more or less of a threat. He's a terrible blocker anyway, so how does it make sense to line him up as a true TE?

IMO, it rare that Rodgers is seen more than 10 yds downfield. That alone should tell you, he's not being used like Finley.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:43 am

I don't focus on Rodgers every time he split out wide, because lets be honest, what is the point. He won't gain any separation, and if he does catch the ball, he won't gain more then a yard after being hit. This year I think Rodgers has regressed as a player.

When I say I would like to use him more as a traditional TE, I would like to see him lined up tight to the line, or just off the line. Just have him running seam routes, similar to what Perillo did in the Lions game. I think they line him up outside to much. No he is not a good blocker.

Where I see him used like Finley, is splitting him out wide, doing the bubble screen to him. That play was one where Finley did well at. Rodgers isn't quick enough to be able to be good at that play.

Honestly if it were up to me, I rather then splitting Rodgers out wide I would rather see them bring in a 4th WR. At least they would have a shot at getting open. And he is a bad blocker, so I would rather see them use the FB more.
Moving forward I would like to see less Rodgers and more other players. Right now I think Rodgers is the weakest link on the offense. Just because he is the starting TE doesn't mean he has to play as much as he is. They have other players they can bring in, at least it would give the defense different looks.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 24, 2015 at 03:21 am

"A lot of the bigger plays came when Rodgers scrambled out of the pocket and bought time, allowing WR's to find their way open. I think they need to do more schematically to get WR's open."

^ This is excellent analysis, imo, RC. Without meaning to put words in people's mouths, this sounds similar (imo) to POC's excellent analysis regarding the relative inefficiency of the passing game when Rodgers is in the pocket vs. when he can extend the plays, and the inability of Rodgers to throw to his first few reads because WRs can't or aren't getting open within the structure or scheme of the offense.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:49 am

Thanks thegreatreynoldo.

I do agree with POC in his opinion as well...

For me what is frustrating is seeing the offense struggle and yet they still do the same things. For me most of the stuff is pre snap. Different formations will create different looks and can get guys open faster.

In this game the Vikings allowed Rodgers to escape the pocket a lot, which is what Rodgers does the best. The last few games teams weren't allowing him to escape, which showed the WR's weren't getting open. Even though they won, I think the formula has been written on how to stop or slow down this offense.
IMO the Packers have to start finding ways to get WR's open faster so Rodgers doesn't have to rely on escaping the pocket to make plays.

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holmesmd's picture

November 23, 2015 at 05:06 pm

POC,
Doesnt the fact that offensive installations occur in the offense limit how much can be changed? It would seem if you've trained your team to run certain schemes and concepts since last April, it might be difficult to modify significantly? I know there is a ton of flexibility built in based upon what the defense is doing but perhaps the changes you wish to see just don't exist in the offensive installations that they have implemented? I would love to hear your take on this. Kudos to your very technical insight! I'm amazed at how complex the game is at the pro level!:) Go Pack!

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D Ernesto's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:25 pm

Your close. A team, if they are smart practices a lot of different schemes, uses some for part of the year and some for the other part. They obviously can't change the world in one week.
I too saw that there was some confusion on the part of the recievers as to where to line up, what pattern to run.
i mean if you add three or four routes with numbers to them, how hard is that? Hard for people who aren't smart enough to get it.

Cobb looked confused, dazed and not ready for prime time. May be his achiles heel, can't learn new things fast.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 23, 2015 at 09:40 pm

Holmesmd,
This is a fantastic question. The short answer is "no." Offensive installations take place each week. These installations come from the entire volume of the playbook. Play selection is based off of scouted looks and anticipated looks from prior games through self scout. In essence, what did team A do against us that was successful? Will team B try something similar that falls outside their defensive parameters. If the belief is yes then we will install plays that account for this anticipated scenario. This is what coach Walsh referred to as contingency planning.
The play load is significantly paired down from the entire playbook but still voluminous enough to address multiple scenarios. I cut a lot of my teeth in early WCO philosophy so I know the amount of memorization required. While that could be a hinderance, teams that could meet the demands had a distinct advantage because no stone was left unturned. Poor preparation was rare. When a team goes outside of their intended play load for a game it can add some in-game stress, but going outside the plan happens more than you think. True WCO plans were extremely large from game to game but sometimes we found ourselves coming back to a concept we ran 3 games prior that presented itself as an unanticipated opportunity as a result of in game flow, even though we didn't install it or practice it that week. Being able draw in these experiences is crucial for success because plans don't always go as planned. Adjusting in game wins or loses most games. When I see the Packer offense I see a simplistic passing attack. However, I did see a traditional WCO pass play against the Lions. Perillo's touchdown was 2 Jet Flanker Drive. Perillon ran the intermediate dig with Adams in Z short motion running the drive route underneath to control undercoverage and create a throwing window. As a WCO purist, I loved it. That play has been around for 30+ years. Based on McCarthy's philosophy that suggests they went outside of their play load when selecting that play.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 23, 2015 at 11:07 pm

So your a WCO purist what do you think of this statement.

From the article I referenced...

"While the West Coast offense dominated the NFL in the 1990s and early 2000s, it has increasingly fallen out of favor because its emphasis on precision and preparation has too often translated into inflexibility and needless complexity. The traditional West Coast offense features a seemingly countless number of plays — former Packers coach Mike Holmgren once said his playbook contained at least 1,500 plays — because on each play each player had a specific job, such as running a post or a slant. As a result, the only way to take advantage of a shifting, evolving defense was to add yet another new play and hope to call it at the right time, in what amounted to an impossibly hard game of rock-paper-scissors."

It would seem better to have somewhat fewer plays that have built in adjustments. How can you say for sure that the route Perillo ran that you mentioned was a pure WCO play, but was actually a play that looked similar to one due to the route adjustments made by the receivers available and the D alignment?

Does it make sense that a player can be bogged down by the voluminous playbook? Not too mention that having to guess correctly on every down or even the majority of them to be successful is to difficult? Otherwise how do you explain that the WCO has fallen out of favor? Seems McCarthy took something that was really good in its time but which the game may have passed by, and adapted it to fit the current NFL?

Also given the fact that the WCO game plan and playbook is so voluminious and the CBA limits the amount of time teams can practice, it seems absolutley necesary to cut down on volumnious nature and streamline the entire process, like McCarthy seemling has done.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 24, 2015 at 12:13 pm

"How can you say for sure that the route Perillo ran that you mentioned was a pure WCO play, but was actually a play that looked similar to one due to the route adjustments made by the receivers available and the D alignment?"

Here's how I know. Check the protection. Linsley and Sitton slide away from the call to pick up the 2i tech who short sticks his rush in to the B gap. Lang and Bulaga pick up their men on the front side. Typically, Jet protection starts with a slide by the first uncovered offensive lineman. In this case, it was Linsley who initiated the slide because he was uncovered. Additionally, the route concept was Flanker Drive. Cobb ran the control in the flat as he was lined up off-set in the backfield. Janis ran a clear route to the corner on the backside. Typically this is run from a two back set, but this was run with 1 TE and 4 receivers. Jones runs a whip route on the backside. Just look at the protection. I'm sure you understand that right?

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holmesmd's picture

November 24, 2015 at 09:02 am

POC,
Great, thanks for the explanation man! Very interesting and informative response!

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4thand1's picture

November 23, 2015 at 06:15 pm

POC, I'm amazed at just how complex football is too. No wonder Favre improvised so much, he didn't know what a dime package was. I can see how a lot of young players have trouble grasping the pro game. Seems like most of the players are no where the level Rodgers is, hence a lot of bad route running. The hours coaches put in are ridiculous, nothing compared to a 40 hour work week most of us put in. What gets me is N.E. seems to come up with a different plan every week.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:01 pm

Complex? Yes. Brett was funny. He made sense. It is just 6 DBs. Nickel is just 5. The truth about designations is that it comes down to syllables. That's the big secret. It's easier and quicker to communicate nickel than to say "hey they brought in a 5th DB." It's easier for the QB to say "check Twin Dragon" than say "check double slant HB flat U Bench." Plus Twin Dragon speaks to your offense only. Syllabic coding. That's a large part of the complexity. As far as hours....no punch clocks. Better have a wife that understands the demands. It's gotten better but you still have grinders.

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Dan Stodola's picture

November 23, 2015 at 10:46 pm

No offense, but if you think coaches and players come onto fan sites like this I think your on drugs.

Anyone would try to bring Walsh out of retirement. He was a legendary HC. Surely teams tried and he politely declined. What does that have to do w/ the Packers or you?

I didn't say anything about where you might have watched the game from. And I don't mind being wrong. But yeah, I want some proof, I'm not just going to accept as fact that I'm wrong. If I am, so be it, but I want to learn something from it. Sorry if it offends you that I don't take what you say as gospel.

I respect that you know more about the game than I do. But why is it that every time you say a thing about McCarthy (until this post anyways) it seems all you do is criticize him? Swear to God this is the first time I've ever seen you give him any credit whatsoever. Much less call him a good HC.

Simple fact is McCarthy surely knows more about offensive football than you do, again sorry if that offends you, but I believe he does. That being the case, I'm inclined to trust his judgement, even if it doesn't fit your paradigm of how an offense should work.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 24, 2015 at 11:50 am

"Simple fact is McCarthy surely knows more about offensive football than you do, again sorry if that offends you"

No offense taken. I consider the source of the comment.

"That being the case, I'm inclined to trust his judgement, even if it doesn't fit your paradigm of how an offense should work."

You can trust his judgement. His track record based on his overall record can't be discounted....BUT...his track record in the playoffs with a Hall of Fame QB can't be discounted either, nor can the instances when his offense clearly is neutered by average to sub par defensive talent, which has happened quite a bit this year and in years prior. I wouldn't expect you to understand that though. Like I said, I consider the source.

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Iain's picture

November 24, 2015 at 03:03 am

I don't think you need to defend yourself POC

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zeke's picture

November 24, 2015 at 05:29 am

"My main concern is his offensive philosophy considering the absence of Nelson and in situations when, even with Nelson available, his vertical stem philosophy is challenged and neutered. It has happened in the past."

Perhaps a dumb question, but when you say MM's vertical stem philosophy is being challenged, do you mean when the defense game plans or shows something to take it away, MM doesn't (or can't) adjust?

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:15 am

Fair enough POC. I don't know, you don't know me. You're probably a good dude. I apologize for going overboard.

In a more objective explanation: I've enjoyed the technical nature of your posts. However, my perception is that you've drifted from x's and o's to increasing criticism of MM. This started last year, and has become more pronounced this year. I'm not saying MM is above criticism, but perhaps his concepts are as good as yours, just different.

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Paul Ott Carruth's picture

November 24, 2015 at 11:57 am

No worries. "His" concepts and "my" concepts are really not his and mine. They all derive from the Gilman theory of passing. WCO is not simply about plays and play design, it's also about philosophy. That's where we differ. I believe in using ball control passing, especially when you are down a valuable component. It leads to more 8-10 play drives and ball control. He would rather control the ball on the ground and not through the air. Short passing game replaces a stagnant running game. It's the long hand-off.

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 25, 2015 at 06:20 am

POC - Thanks. I really do enjoy your analysis and wish that the TV analysts would do more of the like.

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MakinDay's picture

November 23, 2015 at 03:44 pm

First of all, Thank you Aaron for your Gut reactions posts. It is my favorite (by far) post game analysis. Even though it was a little late this time ;). I hit the refresh last night like 15 times before going to bed. That’s OK, you are a victim of your own excellence in timeliness, however, I was hand wringing last night wondering if you were on vacation or something. Made me realize how much I appreciate your work.

Secondly, Big Thank you to POC explaining why our passing offence has no rhythm. I found myself yelling at the TV yesterday “Aaron! Throw it!” every time he dropped back to pass. Even though I was watching it by myself, I started counting out loud “one-two-three… THROW IT!”. And the reason I noticed this is because when we played Peyton Manning, all his passes, even his deep shots, were in rhythm. And he stomped us. Otherwise I would still probably be thinking the receivers aren’t open like all the talking heads say.

So thanks guys for real analysis. And all this without calling anyone’s mother! :) Bravo.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:10 pm

Great post

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Queenlizzie13's picture

November 24, 2015 at 02:15 pm

Aaron has thrived his entire career on extending plays. Peyton/Brady thrive on short throws and getting rid of ball quick. Aaron is more exciting to watch IMO but the only issue is that he does hold on the ball too long to try and make a play when things break down. Or to get the guy open deep.

So sometimes frustrating to watch. You want him to get rid of the ball.

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D Ernesto's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:19 pm

1. Lacy beast mode is back.
2. Janis can run and has speed and size, lets play the guy. Can't save it for later. Who knows, him and Jordy on each side with speed and size, un thinkable, by this team at least.
3. Cobb looks confused. Either he doesnt know the routes or is on the wrong page with Rogers but his non catches are catching up to him and it ain't pretty.
4. Datone had the game of his life. My concern, its a contract year, is this what put a lit coal up his ..... or is he coming around??????????
5. Perry is not an outside backer. He is over weight and out of shape, too slow for the game.

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WKUPackFan's picture

November 24, 2015 at 06:23 am

4. Datone's career is following the same track as his UCLA career, dramatic increase in the 4th year. Not discounting the contract year factor, but the parallels are interesting.

5. Perry has made some excellent plays last season and this season. Lacy didn't look too fat on Sunday.

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some_guy's picture

November 23, 2015 at 07:39 pm

Sigh... one win and all the cockiness is back. Packers.com sending me emails about how everything is better, people who a week or two ago were slitting their wrists in the comments talking about how doubters need to "shut the phuck up" and so forth. This is the most melodramatic, overreacting fanbase, man, I swear.

What has been the theme of this season?

-D doing well against the run; well against mediocre QBs but helpless against good ones

-Can't run the ball

-Can't get anything done in the passing game without playground ball or the hard count; coaches won't adjust

The only thing that changed today was that we were finally able to run the ball. The D fit the template for this season, and of course it's especially good to see that happen against Peterson. We did a good job against a great RB and a good-enough job against a young QB (who actually had a great game, just not enough to overcome all the sacks and penalties).

What we didn't do was pass the ball worth a damn. Rodgers and the receivers are still having trouble getting on the same page. Rodgers is still missing wide open receivers. Wide open receivers who aren't missed are still dropping easy balls. We're still beating our heads against the vertical-shot, spread-iso wall most of the time. Most of the success in the passing game came on a big penalty drawn by Janis and a couple of playground balls to Jones - we still aren't having any success completing passes within the framework of the play.

Enjoy the victory, feel more hopeful, all that stuff. But don't get cocky. We were able to run the ball better *for one game.* It remains to be seen if that was an aberration. As for the passing game, we're still as terrible as we were a week ago. The win is obscuring the fact that literally nothing has improved in the passing game. Don't get it twisted.

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4thand1's picture

November 23, 2015 at 08:38 pm

How the hell did you survive after 3 straight losses? The Packers won because they outplayed the Vikings. Lacy is a star in this league who happened to be injured. The Packers were pretty one dimensional without him. The defense played great, mainly because they were healthy. Dropped passes can be cured, just catch the dam ball. Receivers have been banged up all year, now getting healthy. When Montgomery comes back it will make a huge difference. The Packers will be hitting their stride at just the right time. Beating a good team on the road should count for something. By 3 scores, counts for a lot.

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some_guy's picture

November 24, 2015 at 05:46 am

I survived by being a realistic observer of this team. Go back and look at my comments in the last few weeks' Gut Reactions- when we got destroyed by the Broncos, Aaron was all "Can't go 12-4 without losing a game :D" and telling us why the loss didn't matter because it was against an AFC opponent and etc etc. I talked about people being complacent about us suffering from the same problems we'd been plagued by for years (predictable O, coaches slow to adjust, disappearing short-pass game, can't beat press-man, can't cover tight ends, etc) and said people were being way too cocky. Then over the next two weeks, while everyone else panicked and Aaron mailed in his Gut Reactions with "I've got nothing" post-Detroit, I kept on the same line of reasoning. Because we kept having the same problems. Weird how that works, huh? I didn't lose my mind when we lost 3 games, because I hadn't let the fact that we were winning blind me to our playing like crap for several games prior to GB/DEN. And I'm not getting all cocky now, because I saw in this game that our passing game is still fundamentally flawed. I'm encouraged by the improvement and I hope it continues, but I'm not ready to start beating my chest and smack-talking "haters" and "doubters" and whatever else either. The quality of this offense is still very much in question.

Anyway, what you've written here is just a bunch of generic homerism and storyline nonsense. Oh sure, "just catch the ball." Why didn't they think of that? That must be why Cobb dropped all those passes - he forgot he was supposed to catch them. lol.

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