Filling the Voids Left on Packers Defense

This article takes a look at some realistic options on the free agent market that could help fill the voids left by Jake Ryan and Kentrell Brice.

It is hard to believe that in the first week of training camp I am writing an article entitled "Filling the Voids on Defense", but nevertheless it is August 1st and here the Packers are already losing two key members of the defense to brutal training camp injuries.  The Packers were hit with the Monday Blues when Jake Ryan, Kentrell Brice, and Mike Daniels all exited practice with injuries.  Thankfully, Daniels injury is not thought to be serious.  Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for linebacker, Jake Ryan, and safety Kentrell Brice.  Ryan is feared to be lost for the season and a timetable for Brice's return is still unknown.  

Many are taking the usual next man up mentality and believe that Green Bay can fill any void on their roster with the plethora of young players that they have accumulated over the past couple of years in the draft.  Although at certain times it is beneficial to have young, wide-eyed players step in and earn their stripes on the field, the timing simply may not be right for that approach in this pivotal year of the McCarthy regime.  The stark reality going into the 2018 season is that the Packers can ill-afford to put their faith in yet two more unproven young players at the linebacker and safety positions.

Josh Jones and Oren Burks certainly have a lot of potential but it may actually accentuate their growth by playing alongside veteran players who have made an impact in the NFL at the highest level.  Although most free agent scenarios are deemed an unrealistic fantasy in Green Bay, here are two realistic names that the Packers should consider bringing in to fill the voids that the training camp injuries have already left on the defense.  

Eric Reid: Reid could potentially solve two of the Packers needs at depth with his ability to play reps at both the safety and linebacker positions.  Reid possesses the ability to excel in coverage deliver hard hits, and aggressively pursue the ball.  He is a player who has proven his worth on the field and whose skills could be the perfect compliment to the skillset of Josh Jones.  Imagine Mike Pettine creating mayhem for opposing offenses by using both Eric Reid and Josh Jones together in certain packages.  No matter your personal views on Reid's national anthem stance, it is undeniable that he would provide immense value to the Packers defense and I hope that he will garner serious consideration because of the impact that he can make with his play on the field.  

NaVorro Bowman:  Bowman can still provide a strong presence up the middle as a two or three down player.  He was able to rebound from an injury-plagued 2016 season to start 15 games in 2017.  He can still be effective in rushing the passer in certain blitz packages and can stop the run.  Bowman remains active in his pursuit of the ball and his tenacity to bring down quarterbacks, receivers, and ball carriers would certainly compliment his counterpart, Blake Martinez's skill set.  He would be a welcomed addition who would help the Packers defense remain strong up the middle and provide another veteran presence for both Oren Burks and Blake Martinez to learn from.  

The free agent combination of Reid and Bowman would make for a seamless transition for the Packers because of the years that they have spent stabilizing the 49ers defense unit together.  Both players know each other's tendencies and are used to playing off of each other's strengths to disturb opposing offenses timing as well as their ability to make plays.  Financially, Reid and Bowman should come at a discounted rate which would make it feasible to sign both players and maintain limited financial flexibility to add another player should the need arise.

Signing players is not usually the desired route for the Packers to travel down when looking to fill holes in their roster.   However, sudden impactful injuries require a bold reaction in order to keep the team from deviating off of its desired course heading into the season.      

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David Michalski is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @kilbas27dave 

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Comments (127)

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:45 pm

I would love to see both Reid and Bowman signed, but especially Reid. The guy clearly has been black balled by owners for being the 2nd most responsible party for a huge black eye for the NFL. It's idiotic.

But the reason I want Reid signed? He can ball and can help our defense right now.

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lebowski's picture

August 01, 2018 at 12:38 pm

I agree, he'd be a nice upgrade on the back end of our D

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TheBigCheeze's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:50 pm

.....it's NOT idiotic.....players like reid create tension and animosity in the locker room.....bad chemistry.....bad team.......

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fastmoving's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:56 pm

maybe in the fanbase.........but for sure not in the locker room or ,much more important, on the field.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:17 pm

To be fair, we don't know that. I mean, reportedly (and very unofficially) the reason for Sitton's release was a blowup with HHCD about the anthem issue. I heard that Sitton called HHCD a typical n***** and that it came to blows.

People are people. We're all full of mistakes and pomposity in different areas. Including the players and coaches and management.

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Oppy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:43 pm

That report was directly denied by not only the players themselves, but others in the locker room as well as coaching staff.

Whoever started that rumor- That's people trying to bring politics into sports.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:22 pm

I heard it from a friend of a friend who works in the GBP organization's non-football wing. I hope it's wrong and that he lied.

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Oppy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:55 pm

FWIW, I tracked down the source of that rumor, and it was tied to a tweet from a Huffington Post reporter, Justin Schultz, who deleted the tweet quickly after it was questioned.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:50 pm

Hmmm. Yeah. Highly suspect.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:03 pm

If true... very very interesting!

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GBPDAN1's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:23 pm

I would love to see both signed, also. How much cap space do we have left?

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:38 pm

About $5M available to spend. Really, should save some of that for injuries, churn.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 02, 2018 at 01:36 am

Do not forgot Aaron's contract. They need all the money they have for that!

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NickPerry's picture

August 02, 2018 at 05:21 am

Does Rodgers want to win a SB or is he ONLY worried about every red cent he can get from GB? I would love o see Rodgers signed until he's 40 BUT the Packers have ALL the leverage until he's 39 anyways. There's absolutely no guarantee he'll be like Brady or Brees and be effective at 40 anyways.

The fact we (The Packers) will "Need all the money they have for that" (Contract) is really starting to irritate the hell out of me. We saw what the Packers had as a "Team" last year when QB1 went down...They sucked!!! Give me a more well rounded talented football team every time.

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dobber's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:13 am

"There's absolutely no guarantee he'll be like Brady or Brees and be effective at 40 anyways."

That's the kicker in my book. It's nothing new to say that ARod has a great arm and accuracy, but he's a killer improviser. When average QBs make boneheaded mistakes that defenses capitalize on, ARod makes plays. A huge part of that is his legs. When the legs start to go? Admittedly, he might have been a better QB in 2014 with his pulled calf than he was at any other time around that, but that whole offense was humming at that point.

Once the roster is set, they can try to maximize the front-end in his deal and create space later on. Problem is, when the numbers are that large, even front-loading some of the deal still leaves huge numbers in each of the remaining years. Especially when you really don't have that much room left in 2018.

At his current price, Rodgers is a steal. Even if he gets two franchise years, that second one gets pricey, but leading up to that point, he pays for himself.

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The TKstinator's picture

August 01, 2018 at 12:44 pm

Plethora!

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TarynsEyes's picture

August 01, 2018 at 12:47 pm

This defense is in rebuild, though some disagree, and the Packers again have opted to ignore it's core issues to make a rebuild faster and stronger in a shorter time period, by not signing earlier, either of the two mentioned/other(s) or making a trade for Earl Thomas....3rd rd pick and Matthews, which would have freed up a lot of money.

This defense, with any other significant injury can easily find itself riding a bike in the SB race without peddles attached....again.

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The TKstinator's picture

August 03, 2018 at 11:03 pm

That first paragraph is ONE sentence. Yikes!

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Art's picture

August 01, 2018 at 01:23 pm

As an American, a military veteran and a Packer fan since 1960 it is and always will be country first and the Green Bay Packers second when it comes to respecting the flag, our freedom and the great sacrifices made that ensures our ability to enjoy the great opportunities we have in America. As I continue to support the Green Bay Packers I won't compromise my principles and accept any player that disrespects our flag and what it stands for. The temporary joy of winning a couple of more games (not guaranteed) does not come close to even thinking about seeing a Packer disrespecting our flag, our service members, our law enforcement officers, and our values that the flag represents. I support the enthusiasm for our Packers but when a player puts on that uniform he represents the values and traditions of the entire organization not just his own personal ideas. Protest in your own clothes on your own time.

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Bert's picture

August 01, 2018 at 01:28 pm

Thanks Art. Thanks for your service and I agree with your thoughts 100%. I have been a Packers fan since 1959 but even my support has it's limits.

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 01:42 pm

It would be worth signing Reid just to see all of the fake "patriots" lose their minds.

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Bert's picture

August 01, 2018 at 01:48 pm

I seriously doubt if I will lose my mind. I mean it's only football. Geez.

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fastmoving's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:32 pm

first of all, its really just football.
but the funny thing is,,,,,,the only guy who disrespect the flag and everything america stands for is the strange guy with the wig. and its not even close.......
cannot believe he spins the easiest things upside down and still finds some hillbillies who follow him.
be like Lombardi....he would welcomed Reid with open arms.

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mamasboy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:54 pm

I hope so WKU

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Community Guy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:20 pm

for the past generation plus, the US military has been sent abroad on behest of big capital, often dropping bombs on people of color in far away places. it is not surprising that some ex-military want to wrap themselves in the flag and avoid the topic of injustice within the US, particularly the injustice that mainly white police forces inflict on mainly communities of color in cities across the nation. in my view, the NFL players who have been drawing attention to domestic injustice with the intent of improving our own society are far more patriotic than ex-military who fought on the wrong side of an unjust war. (reactionary rebuttals, threats, and possibly censorship expected here.. land of the free??)

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TarynsEyes's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:36 pm

" ...particularly the injustice that mainly white police forces inflict on mainly communities of color in cities across the nation. "

Let me know when you or those communities of color stop denying the self inflicting acts of injustice perpetrated from within. Perhaps if a little more self governed respect for doing right the outside' white police' wouldn't be so bad looking.
The worst crime is in colored communities and yet, they all deny knowing,accepting that it's their own doing such.

Let the name calling begin...i fear not...for I applaud those who obey the law and abhor those who do not and moreso those who cry foul when caught.

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fastmoving's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:53 pm

no name calling, you already did that by yourself.
Its clear you know as much about everything like you know about football, but at least you dont act like you have any kind of arguments.

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:37 pm

You are happy about any deaths in "colored communities", regardless of how those deaths occur. And you outed yourself again by using the word "colored" instead of "people/communities of color".

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TarynsEyes's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:14 pm

I'm not happy about any deaths..and I didn't use the words ' colored community' first but merely repeated them in my argument. I simply and accurately placed the vast majority of deaths and violence sustained in these communities are not by police, of any color, but by the hand of the there own residents and the communities in this discussion are of colored majority by a vast distinction, with all major political/police/education seat holdings being held by people of color.
As usual, you will read and say whatever to disagree or misinterpret what I actually wrote.
The over all injustice many scream about in these communities by ' white police' fail considerably when totaled against the injustice inflicted upon themselves with no police involved.Deny, deny, deny all one wants but denying it won't stop it.

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holmesmd's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:46 pm

You are aware of the terms social disenfranchisement and social engineering...correct?! If not, please stop

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LayingTheLawe's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:15 pm

Taryn, no one denies there is crime in the inner cities of America. That is not the issue here but rather the behavior of public safety officials towards groups of people. You are all about accountability so you should understand - all that is desired is that when a police officer shoots a black child holding a comb that there be some accountability. The police in this country have way too much McCarthy era mindset in them and never change anything they do or even acknowledge there is a problem. No "coaches" are fired, no "players" are replaced and they are sent out with the exact same "playbook" year after year even after they suffer failure after failure. A new era is needed. Does that help explain it for you?

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:24 am

so the black communities are not a consequence of decades of social inequality in this country? is that what your saying? it's their fault that they have no jobs? less opportunity? they should be able to govern themselves? and that it's their fault that white cops have to go in "there" and shoot unarmed citizens? that's what your saying???

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TarynsEyes's picture

August 02, 2018 at 01:53 pm

Decades of social inequality..sure, pre- 70's, but since they have been given enormous avenues and benefits, Affirmative Action, SAT points, extreme Welfare Assistance etc, and have abused everyone of them.
Why can't white citizens feel safe going through a community of color as it was called. Their not police just ordinary citizens. What is good about destroying the businesses in your community and a Mayor exclaiming Give them space to destroy. Why is 99% of those injured,arrested or killed by police all having arrest records, armed assault, burglary with weapons, drugs,rape etc. Why are the youth not going to school instead of joining the quick money and death life of the streets.
Ask the community leaders where the money is going that they get...How is that they live outside the communities they represent. How can you justify the chanting of ..We want dead cops and we want them now. Why do people teach their kids to hate cops from the start and not teach them to go to school. Why do they spend their financial assistance on drugs. Why is it acceptable for them to call each the word only they can use. One would think that stopping that would begin a self respect platform as a start. All this after getting so much awarded to them since the 70's as mentioned and still they blame the whites and cops. It's easy to blame but extremely hard to accept that you are your worst reason for your undoing.Why does cities like Chicago enable the killings by gangs.
I likely sound racist to some but I'm simply racist against anyone who blames others for the majority of the plight they still use against themselves....Done....Have a nice day!

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fastmoving's picture

August 03, 2018 at 05:50 am

my dad always tells me, all the time, his sacrifices are made for our freedom and he feels disrespected from the old wannabe golfer with his russian friends.,,,,

and yeahhh...boycot is going well

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TheBigCheeze's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:51 pm

thank you for your service, Art......AGREED 100%

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:07 pm

Best post I've read here yet! I'm with you 100%!
Can't believe some fans would sacrifice pride and values and everything the Packers stand for.

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LayingTheLawe's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:20 pm

I am sorry if the protests offend you. But no change in social values has ever come without pissing people off. The sad truth is that football players could have non-stop around the clock interviews on every major news and sports channel from now to doomsday and not get the level of attention a single kneeling protest garnered. This is an important issue to many players, so ones willing to pay the price for their values will continue to protest and this is far from over.

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Bert's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:35 pm

Actually LTL the subject of the protests do not offend me as much as combining my enjoyment of watching football with the protests does kinda piss me off. I would be just as pissed off if players wore MAGA caps during the anthem. I'm just tired of protest and politics in general encroaching on EVERYTHING and ANYTHING!!! Geez. Can't we just enjoy football without politics or social protest?

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:36 am

it got to this point because the POS in the WH can't keep his mouth shut or his phone from tweeting. he stirs up more dissension in this country than any protesting football player. playing to his angry scared white base who love to hate.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:42 pm

I very sincerely thank you for your service and your oath to defend the Constitution and respect the sacrifices made by you and other veterans. I will however, politely remind you that the Constitution you swore to defend says you don't have to stand for the National Anthem or say the Pledge of Allegiance, as verified by the Supreme Court on multiple occasions.

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PAPackerbacker's picture

August 02, 2018 at 04:09 am

Thank you for your service Art. And I couldn't agree with you more!!

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:09 am

it called freedom of speech and nobody is disrespecting the flag, for the millionth time...except the POS in the WH!

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Grandfathered's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:27 am

Rosa Parks did not move to the back of the bus. She was not protesting the Montgomery public transportation system. Kap. Reid and other who kneel are not protesting the flag, country or military veterans. Burning the flag or stomping on it would be different.

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packergal's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:56 am

Thank you for your service, Art!
Completely AGREE!
Sickened that more Packer fans "dislike" rather than "like" your post.

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 12:06 pm

even though i don't share your views on disrespecting the flag, i appreciate you veterans for protecting our country, Art!

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stockholder's picture

August 01, 2018 at 01:50 pm

Reid vs. Jones. I'd rather go with Jones. Reid's stats aren't that great; Only 10 INTs.? I just see a M. Bennett disruption. So lets make sure he's mentally sound. His speed is still capable. His game is to help the team first.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:49 pm

Burnett: 9 INTs (46 PBUs) in 8 seasons (102 games).
HHCD: 11 INTS (25 PBUs) in 4 seasons (68 games).
Reid: 10 INTs (36 PBUs) in 5 seasons (70 games).

Reid should cost a 1/3 or 1/4th of HHCD.
Reid should cost 1/3 of Burnett.

What's your point?

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stockholder's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:13 pm

Play Jones. Gute drafted a ILB. Brice will be back. Something is still wrong with Reid. (SF should not have let him go)

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croatpackfan's picture

August 02, 2018 at 01:49 am

My point is that player is still in FA, even he is cheap, and there is something why 32 teams are not ready to sign him!

Ndamukong Suh is very good player, but have problems with his attitude. And he has no problem to find the team, and for substantial amount of money. Why Eric Reid has problem?

Also, maybe Reid has offers, but he wants more money, so he would not cost only 1/3 or 1/4 of Burnett or HHCD. He might ask for 2× HHCD money and that is why he is not signed...

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:44 pm

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

I'm so frigging sick of reading/hearing about the anthem issue! For the life of me, I can't understand why the owners just don't keep the entirety of both teams in their locker rooms until after the anthem - like they did until the military PAID the NFL to advertise before all games - starting in 2009.

But even if the NFL (for once) did the common sense thing and just made the entire anthem issue go away - the line between sports and politics has all but shattered in the past 10 years. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. This is where we are, so we're going to have to learn to TOLERATE one another's differing opinions. Besides, the anthem issue in 2016-now is not the first time that arguments centered around the intersection of leisure and politics have happened and it won't be the last.

In this case, a player is a player. He is doing his job. It is not about his politics - it's about job performance! Even further, professional sports locker rooms tend to be among the most diverse work environments of the world. While no career is 100% a true meritocracy, pro sports are about as close as you can get. If you can ball, you play. If not, not.

Bottom line: Since people are going to disagree, these political issues are always going to be there. If you want a democracy, you're going to deal with both respectful and disrespectful dissent. To not have it is indicative of an even worse evil.

So for the love of all things holy, ENOUGH with the attacks of people who don't agree with you! Let's try and think - BOTH SIDES HERE - that those who you agree with just MIGHT have a good point and most certainly have at least ONE good reason to think/believe/feel the way they do! Put yourself in another's shoes and walk a mile in them. At least try. Please.

Give the bickering and muckraking a rest! Leave that garbage (and that's what this is - a political pissing contest of who is more righteous) to Mike Florio, ESPN, social media companies, etc... You know, those that NEED to generate website hits to make money! Think about that before you online outrage all over someone - those companies are profiting from online arguments! They WANT you to fight! It's like a real-life Jerry Springer! (ugh). This is not FNC or Mother Jones. This is CHTV. We all love WI and the Packers here. CHILL OUT! Please. A little respect of your fellow HUMAN fans and common decency is in order. Try focusing on our shared passion for the team we love.

Rant over. Thank you. God Bless the USA and God Bless the Green Bay Packers.

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TarynsEyes's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:27 pm

You call for both sides to have respect for view and then call out Fox News...LOL!

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fastmoving's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:16 pm

fox is far away even from the other side.....

SHUT UP AND FUMBLE!!!

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:02 pm

....along with Mother Jones on the left....

I used the first two offending sites I thought of (there were many options). I have personally observed both of these sites repeatedly throwing gasoline on the bonfire of our partisanship divide.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:11 pm

It's the same with the Right Wing and Left Wing Radio shows in Milwaukee. They are both gross.

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 02:30 pm

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

HELL NO!!!

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:21 pm

7 years of college down the drain!!! Thanks, Since '61

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:30 pm

It's too bad that most of our students these days have no idea what those references mean...

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:46 pm

I give my students assignments that are graded at the beginning of their study with me. They are required to watch:

1. Spaceballs
2. Blazing Saddles
3. History of the World Part 2.
4. Animal House.
5. Office Space.
6. Tommy Boy.
7. The Matrix (only because I use it to talk about how the body takes time to adjust even after the mind has been altered.)

I do it because if my students don't know these movies, they'll never get my references or humor. So yeah, if a student complained, I'd get hosed by the admin. But, funnily enough, in 15 years of teaching from grades 9-graduate school, no one has ever complained about getting an A for being able to synthesize some pretty fricken funny movies. ;)

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:30 pm

I would've included Slap Shot, Caddyshack, and Major League, too. Way too many good one-liners in those movies...

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:30 pm

I've never watched Slap Shot. It's going on Amazon Prime tonight. :)

Major League just got added to the list.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:59 pm

I thought my son needed a similar education, so I pulled out some movies from the 70s and 80s. Some went over well: The Princess Bride when he was maybe 9 years old, some mediocre like Enter the Dragon, and some were disasters. Watching Blues Brothers, Blazing Saddles and Amazon Women on the Moon sober is not something I recommend. They were embarrassing.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:13 pm

BAHAHAHA!

Well, my students already think I'm hopelessly old and outdated, so I guess I don't care if they don't "get" me. ;)

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:30 pm

I remember the first time I watched Heavy Metal sober: it was like the first time I realized Santa wasn't real.

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Spock's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:46 pm

I've never even heard of "Tommy Boy"! Who's in it and when was it made?

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:41 pm

David Spade and Chris Farley...made in the mid-90s.

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Spock's picture

August 02, 2018 at 09:36 am

Thanks for the info dobber. I've never been a Chris Farley (or John Candy) fan, so that's probably why I've never seen it. I think David Spade is okay, though, so I'll have to check it out.

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Spock's picture

August 02, 2018 at 09:39 am

Deleted, double post.

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Spock's picture

August 02, 2018 at 09:40 am

Deleted, Triple post. Yikes.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:50 pm

YOU HAVEN"T LIVED IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN TOMMY BOY! LOL!

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

August 02, 2018 at 09:21 am

Major League is awesome. Your in for a treat.

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holmesmd's picture

August 01, 2018 at 08:52 pm

What about the “Big Lebowski” or Fast times at Ridgemont High”?! Come on guys! WTH? Lol

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 09:05 pm

Big Lebowski is a classic. But for some reason, all my students still love the dude. So they already get those jokes.

....not on the carpet...... lol

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:10 pm

Awesome!

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Tundraboy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 10:25 pm

Top of my head.

Planes,Trains,and Automobiles
Trading Places
Uncle Buck
Volunteers (Tom Tuttle of Tacoma,WA!)
Life of Brian
Time Bandits
Holy Grail
Liar, Liar
Groundhog Day
Young Frankenstein

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LayingTheLawe's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:23 pm

Germans? quiet... Dobbers on a roll.

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:31 pm

I regret to say that I can only give one thumbs up...

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 09:40 pm

Not true. Sign in with a different email and screen-name. You can give as many votes as you want. All you need is a ton of time! ;)

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 02, 2018 at 02:09 am

I didn't list most of the movies my son liked or thought were okay. The other disaster was Kentucky Fried Movie.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 02, 2018 at 07:18 am

Don't know that one either.

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Jonathan Spader's picture

August 02, 2018 at 10:49 am

.

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:04 pm

I am currently looking at my father's December 9, 1946, Honorable Discharge papers presented at the Seperation Center at Fort Sheridan, IL., along with the folded flag the Honor Guard presented me after his funeral in 2010. He volunteered to fight in WWII.

Art is attempting to deliberately dishonor my father, by misrepresenting what the United States stands for and by misrepresenting what real veterans fought for. I understand what you're saying Bear, but please forgive me for not taking Art's disrespect lightly.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 09:08 pm

I can see why this upsets you and if your father were in front of me, I'd shake his hand and thank him for his service. And I see where you are coming from. I really do.

But, WKU, when you get acidic and angry in your comments - especially when they get sarcastic and/or personal towards a group of people, that doesn't help. There is strong statistical causation not only backing an inability to change someone's mind by stating reasons for your beliefs, but an entrenchment of your opponent's beliefs. Regardless of how factual (or not in many cases) your arguments might be.

Let's use this as an example. I don't know Art - so I'm going to entirely make something up here:

"Person X's dad served in Vietnam and gave his life for this country. Person X's father believed that he was stopping the spread of communism and his children's welfare in the future depended on stopping the USSR's proxy war on the West. Therefore, the flag meant everything to person X's dad. Person X's mom (wisely) raised her son to treat her dad as a hero, and to parrot his beliefs (maybe less wisely, depending on the parent). And Person X terribly missed his/her dead father growing up. Therefore, the flag is very important to person X. Therefore, the anthem is very important. Therefore, to question Person X's beliefs regarding the anthem feels like a direct questioning of the value and wisdom of the sacrifice their father made."

Do you see how I put very similar reasoning to turn into the polar opposite belief from yours? And for (what feels to that person - just like you do about your dad) a DAMN good reason! And this could easily be done for "Person X" to see your point of view. In my maybe not so humble opinion (lol), it is VERY important to always try to think of your adversaries in whatever field you are in, from their point of view. To put them in as positive of a light as you can. It's also very hard to do. So....

Enter respect. Even without agreeing with them or perhaps even understanding them. Respect.

The way you change someone's mind is by listening to them and respecting them as a person. That doesn't mean you have to endorse or agree with their opinion, and it doesn't guarantee change. We are all stubborn and have our biases. It just means you need to respect them to have any sort of a chance.

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:30 pm

Excellent post Bearmeat! WKU, I understand where you are coming from as well. My Dad was a WW2 combat veteran of the South Pacific. He was already in the service when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor so he didn't miss a day and was still active and preparing for the invasion of Japan when they surrendered on 9-2-45. After a few years in construction he became NYPD from 1952 to 1979. So ,you know where I stand regarding the flag, veterans, police, fire and first responders.

Yet it is exactly because of my dad's service that I respect and appreciate the other points of view on this issue. I try to look at the issues from FDRs Four Freedoms; Freedom of speech, Freedom of religion, Freedom from fear and Freedom from want. Until we can achieve that for everybody and respect everyone in the process we are not living up to America's values, IMO. Thanks, Since '61

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:33 pm

Hats off to you, good sir. Well stated. Much respect from me.

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:38 pm

Thanks Bearmeat! Since '61

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fastmoving's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:40 pm

Yeah---thanks. well said..........the for Freedoms!

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:31 pm

'61, Dad was on a troop transport ship headed to Japan when the surrender occurred. He spent a year in the Occupation Army. Sometimes I think about how, just 77 years ago, entire fleets could cross the Pacific Ocean undetected.

Bear's Vietnam example really brought back some memories also. I was 15 when Saigon fell. I can clearly remember watching our black and white TV (on a rolling stand) with Dan Rather and others reporting from Vietnam and Cambodia while explosions were occurring in the background. I'm pretty sure that my friends and I all thought that we were going to end up over there.

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 12:26 pm

Viet Nam was a travesty. 58,000 of our bros and sistas killed in that hell hole and thousands more died as a direct result of it, whose names are not on the wall. they sacrificed all and now we are fighting over guys that kneel for the national anthem?
i don't see that they are disrespecting our flag....they are calling attention to the lack of respect they have been dealing with for 200 years!

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Since'61's picture

August 02, 2018 at 02:06 pm

WKU - my deepest appreciation and respect for your Dad's service.
Thanks, Since '61

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 02, 2018 at 02:14 pm

And mine for your Dad's service my friend, both in the military and with the NYPD.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:14 pm

Since 61, well said and thanks to your dad for his service to our nation and our freedom. My dad the same...God Bless him!

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:35 pm

Bear, Thanks for the kind comments regarding my father. He shipped out from right here in Louisville.

As usual my virtual friend, you present excellent points. Your students are lucky to have you as a professor.

Speaking of students, my youngest just left a couple of hours ago for his senior year at Transylvania. He is still playing lacrosse.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:37 pm

Thank you for your kind words. I have personally been excluded/name called/labeled at both work (in the past - not at my current institution) and recreation. My wife and I are political outcasts in many ways - to both parties. So I can empathize with those I don't agree with who are on the margins because I've been there. It sucks to be labeled and excluded - and it's one of the big reasons I left performing as a lifestyle to teach. If I can help some young students jump over the holes I dug for myself, then IMO that's a life well lived. :)

Kudos to your son! Tell him to ball out!

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WKUPackFan's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:45 pm

I will! Transylvania is in just it's 6th year playing lacrosse, and has made the NCAA Div. III tournament the past two years. Got crushed in the first round last May at Washington & Lee. Those Virginia schools are really good.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:54 pm

He is a college athlete. That, alone, is a helluva accomplishment and something to be proud of.

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porupack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:48 am

I'm signing up for your club, bearmeat. Sensible-est mini-lesson as I've ever heard.

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Art's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:03 pm

I don;t know how I disrespected your father, I certainly apologize if I did. What I said is standing for the flag and the national anthem honors and respects the sacrifices made by millions of veterans such as your father that bravely served our country. And I want members of the Green Bay Packers to show that respect by standing for the national anthem

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:36 pm

I understand why you feel that way, Art. And your apology displays your character in an excellent light.

But, to me, it makes sense that there are legitimate reasons why someone would choose not to stand for the national anthem. First of all, protest is part of the American fabric. Both polite and (very) impolite protest has been made effectively throughout the history of America. Let's look at the Boston Tea Party for example: I'm pretty sure those college kids were not politely asking to dump thousands of pounds worth of tea into the harbor!

In the situation we've been dealing with for the past 2 years, many of the black athletes feel sympathy for the causes of the Black Lives Matter movement. Although I am white, I have a number of friends who are not whom I respect and trust. And many of that number have told me that they are policed differently than what I would expect them to be based on my experience. When I lived on the South Side of Chicago, I saw this first hand.

You may not agree with that assessment, and that is your right. But I would challenge you to try to walk a mile in the shoes of people you disagree with. Ask questions without judging for a time. And see if sympathy and understanding don't start softening the right/wrong dichotomy. The same thing needs to be said to anthem protestors/BLM sympathizers. Mutual respect, starting from a place of listening and not making summary judgments about someone else's character.

This is, in my opinion, a very tough issue to tackle, because both arguments and beliefs have strong merit to them. So again, we're back to the importance of listening and respect.

Just my .02. I'll can it now. Have a nice evening.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 02, 2018 at 01:59 am

Wag the dog?

Maybe movie for those who believe in unmistakable politics...

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Bearmeat's picture

August 02, 2018 at 07:20 am

That's a good movie too!

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:20 pm

While we may not have a timeframe for Brice's return he was seen at practice not participating but without a boot or crutches. He probably has a bad bone bruise. He X-rays were negative so it sounds to me like he will return early in the season if not before the end of the preseason. Now it is likely that I have missed an injury update as I have been traveling all day and just opened CHTV a few minutes ago to read this article. But we just discussed signing Reid or Vaccaro yesterday, so why are we stirring all this up again when it may prove to be totally unnecessary.

As for the ILB position we have needed depth in that position group for the last 3 -4 seasons at least. Of course TT ignored it but hopefully Gute will not. We know Ryan is done for the season so let's get someone in who can contribute at least on a rotational basis with Burke and our other young ILBs.

As Bearmeat has correctly pointed out discussing Reid and his politics is futile since nothing will be solved here whether he can help the Packers or not. I hope that the Packers do not sign him, not because of his politics but because it means that we will end up with a season full of political posts and that's not why I come to CHTV. We don't need the distraction that Reid creates on the team or here on CHTV. Thanks, Since '61

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:38 pm

RE: Your last paragraph 61,

You're right. It sucks and it's not fair. But you're right. Reid is toxic unless and until the NFL itself resolves it. So, not going to happen.

If Reid were to be signed and people chose to leave as fans, that is their right. I'd personally just ignore those that were incensed and kept posting. I do it with enough people already, what's a few more? ;)

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:36 pm

Bearmeat - I don't understand how 32 successful business people can let such a simple issue get so far off the track. Your suggestion is just one of many simple answers they could and should have implemented when this all started. I'm sure that if there was a way for them to make money off of this they would have figured it out right away.

This is just one many issues to me that proves that the current owners don't care about the success of the league, or player safety or their fans, but rather they are just interested in sucking all the money they can from their cash cow until it collapses. Thanks, Since '61

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:38 pm

....nailed it...

Sigh.

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PAPackerbacker's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:00 pm

I agree. Reid is a distraction and the Packers have some quality players chosen in the draft and 2nd year players that are very talented. Give them a chance to prove themselves in training camp and preseason before going out and signing a veteran. I have confidence in Pettine and his ability to get these young players ready to step in and contribute and make a positive impact.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:27 pm

The reason to sign a FA safety - like Vacarro to avoid the politics - is because Brice stunk up the place last year. Maybe he might develop. Every report out of TC is that the light has not yet come on for Josh Jones. Vacarro and Boston would have been extremely cheap proven NFL players who are both plainly better than 2017 Brice. Boston isn't a Strong Safety though.

I am not sold on the notion of signing a free agent ILB, but I'd understand it. Bowman did garner an 84.4 grade from PFF, but I really don't know much about him. More of a run stuffer at this stage of his career, I gather, but he played 997 snaps last season, so he wasn't lifted in passing situations, and I doubt he could get an 84 grade if his pass defense stunk. He's probably pretty cheap, if not as cheap as the safeties.

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Since'61's picture

August 01, 2018 at 09:25 pm

TGR - I wouldn't mind if the Packers signed Vacarro but Brice only appeared in 6 games last season and I thought played pretty well. In any case I'm not sure that I could make a fair evaluation of any player after only 6 games. To me HHCD stunk up the field for the entire season in 2017. Let's hope he recovers for this season.

In any case he was playing in Capers system and Brice wouldn't be the first player to look bad in Caper's system. Thanks, Since '61

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stockholder's picture

August 02, 2018 at 08:12 am

I like Brice. Brice and Jones were still better than Burnett IMO.

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Oppy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:52 pm

Wow.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 03:56 pm

Wow what? Are you surprised? lol. This is tame compared to most anthem issue blowups I've seen since Kap started kneeling.

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Oppy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:47 pm

Let me expand on my "Wow."

"FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

I'm so frigging sick of reading/hearing about the anthem issue! "

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:14 pm

Um... Ok.

If you're not sick of it, then you are certainly entitled to that opinion. I stand by mine though - without intending any disrespect towards you. ;)

More seriously though - what I meant was that CHTV (and NFL football) is my escape time. It's one of my two hobbies. I don't like to see fighting amongst Packer fans in one of my limited outlets. Especially on an issue that (IMO) both "sides" have aspects of their argument that could enable them to claim the moral "high ground."

Bottom line: If I wanna fight with someone on a football site, it'll be someone wearing those ugly ass horns and putrid purple colors. ;)

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Oppy's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:24 pm

I'm saying my "Wow." = exactly your sentiments, Bearmeat... Not that my "Wow," was a response of disbelief to your sentiments.

I understand the confusion.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 05:29 pm

gotcha. thanks for clearing that up. I was confused.

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Guam's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:05 pm

Kudos to Bearmeat and Since'61. Some of the best dialogue I have read anywhere on sports, politics and the NFL's goofy anthem issue. Thanks guys!

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dobber's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:33 pm

Agreed.

It's amazing what the discourse is like when the name-calling goes away.

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Coldworld's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:44 pm

I have to agree. Well put indeed.

Generally, I would like to support the notion that everyone, regardless of side, take a deep breath and avoid knee jerk invective on such issues. Candid debate is healthy, incendiary polemics less so. Sadly the latter appears to be in ascendency in society.

I think we need to decide if we need a run stopper—a subject of much off season chatter. If we do, I think that’s worth a signature. Brice will likely return and I see too many cover/hybrid backers on the roster and no bad weather traditional options unless maybe a rookie UDFA such as Martini. For that reason I would not sign Ried or another safety type at this point.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 07:15 pm

valid.

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4thand1's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:28 pm

Here's to hoping no one is silenced in this Country. It's a kick in the gut to see even Packers' fans being divided like the rest of the country. Sundays used to be a day to kick back, watch some football and forget about the rest of the shit that goes on. Now politics has been front and center from our escape from reality. United we stand, divided we fall. GOPACKGO.

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Bearmeat's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:53 pm

You are right that we stand stronger united than we do divided. And if division gets to a certain point, we are going to fall.

But to be fair, I don't think "America" as we like to think about it, ever really existed. Have you read the dialogue and intrigue amongst the founding fathers? Even after the Brits went home? It was ugly. Hilarious, in retrospect. But at the time, it was UGLY. Protest and backbiting have been in vogue since the founding of the colonies. Human nature, I'm afraid.

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fthisJack's picture

August 02, 2018 at 12:45 pm

sure there has always been division in this country but never before have we had a sitting President dividing the nation with his insane policies and rhetoric and tweets to insure that his loyal base stick with him even if he is conspiring with Russia, trying to squash the free press, and discredit the FBI!

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Bearmeat's picture

August 02, 2018 at 05:53 pm

Social media has changed things, but you're not correct about everything else.

Andrew Jackson. Teddy Roosevelt. FDR. Richard Nixon. Thomas Jefferson, (many more to choose from). All of them tried to discredit the press at points in their tenures. All of them went to war with factions of their own party whom they didn't agree with. There have been some real firebrands who have been rude men occupying the Oval Office.

I'm not saying that Trump is a saint, and he certainly is a different politician than we've had in that chair. But to say he is unprecedented in the history of the country is a bit of a stretch IMO.

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Bure9620's picture

August 01, 2018 at 06:34 pm

Unfortunately, that is the goal by some, to silence others. Or to have their "media credentials revoked." Or to "punch them in the face" if they dont leave a rally. All the same.

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Lare's picture

August 01, 2018 at 04:29 pm

We have no indication that Brice's injury is serious, so the Reid issue is probably a moot point.

As to losing Ryan for the season, they should just move Matthews inside and let Beigel or Gilbert start on the outside. Matthews only averages a couple of tackles a game and less than one sack every other game so it's not like his production outside is going to be missed.

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croatpackfan's picture

August 02, 2018 at 01:51 am

Did any note that on the LA Rams Reserve/Did Not Report list is the name of Aaron Donald!

Somebody knows more?

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Jonathan Spader's picture

August 02, 2018 at 11:49 am

Aaron Donald is holding out because he's upset about being the Defensive Player of the Year and only getting paid 6.9 million. He wants a lucrative long term contract and the Rams and him haven't been able to agree on one yet.

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