Cory's Corner: Who Has More Pressure?
Gutekunst or LaFleur Will Receive Blame If Things Go Sideways
Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst and his scouting department swung for the fences by trading up four spots and taking Jordan Love 26th overall.
Packers coach Matt LaFleur guided the team to a 13-3 mark in his rookie season and will now see a tidal wave of heightened expectations.
So, who will have more pressure in a few years?
Gutekunst just finished up his third NFL Draft. His first draft mined Jaire Alexander and JK Scott. Last year, Elgton Jenkins has been the only person as of note and this year's draft holds future promise, but not much immediate value.
LaFleur, an offensive mind, guided the Packers to a No. 15 ranking in offensive points and a No. 9 ranking in defensive points allowed. Those numbers seem OK, but he transformed those into a surprising record that gave the Packers a home playoff game that eventually put Green Bay within one game of the Super Bowl.
But for as close as Green Bay appeared last year, the Packers are still not as close as they appear. The defensive line needs a complement to Kenny Clark. Inside linebacker is a position that has been overlooked for years. Going back to 1993, Wayne Simmons (1993), Nick Barnett (2003) and A.J. Hawk (2006) were the only inside linebackers taken in the first round. This team hasn't had a dynamic presence at tight end since Jermichael Finley and Javon Walker was the last wide receiver taken in the first round in 2002.
That's why the answer is Gutekunst. You can argue that LaFleur has plenty of weapons, but he has only had one year to enlist his system. Gutekunst "bought the groceries" and it will ultimately come down to him if this organization sinks or swims. Gutekunst made eight other picks this year, but the only one that anyone is going to rememebr is Love. If Love cannot transition to the NFL, Gutekunst will be in trouble for jeopardizing further success of today in order to solidify future gains.
The only way that LaFleur could be on the hot seat is if Rodgers plays amazing the next two years. If he is given the green light of what to do next with his quarterback and he chooses Love, that decision falls on him. Then again, LaFleur could easily choose Rodgers and make Love sit more — which wouldn't make the Packers' front office feel warm and fuzzy.
This is a delicate situation right now and it's all because Rodgers has dead cap hits of $51.1 million this year, $31.5 million next year and $17.2 million in 2022. That's why many are predicting that the Packers will move on from Rodgers in 2022, because it's a lot cheaper and because Love would still have two years left on his rookie deal.
But that's what makes this so confusing. Gutekunst could've had Jameis Winston for $1.1 million for one season, which would've given the Packers a proven backup. However, Gutekunst chose to give away draft capital for a rookie quarterback that may not be ready to start if Rodgers gets seriously injured this season.
Gutekunst was amazed by the Patrick Mahomes and Rodgers' traits that Love possesses and figured he had to strike now or else he may not get a similar chance at another franchise quarterback. And since finding a franchise quarterback is the most important thing in pro football, Gutekunst took a swing.
We will find out if he will connect or whiff.
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (109)
Bearmeat
May 02, 2020 at 06:46 am
Corey, where does Winston come into this at all? This doesn't make any sense.
Rossonero
May 02, 2020 at 07:13 am
Same here. I also wasn't following where the $1.1M dollar figure was coming from either.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 09:07 am
Thought Wayne Simmons played strong side?
Crazedcamel
May 03, 2020 at 09:06 pm
He did in a 4-3 , and was the nastiest linebacker the Pack has had since the resurgence ( 1993-present) , maybe not the best but none more physical. He had his share of demons but he was one of a few defenders that we had could match up with those great Cowboy teams. Unfortunately it all blew up when he went to the Chiefs.
Guam
May 02, 2020 at 07:45 am
I believe Winston signed with the Saints for a very low dollar figure ($1.1 million?) for a chance to work with Sean Payton and try to resurrect his career. I think Corey was trying to say the Packers could have a cheap veteran backup with potential (Winston) instead of Love.
tm_inter
May 02, 2020 at 07:59 am
Jameis Winston led the league in interceptions last year with 30. I don't think the Packers need such quarterback.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:24 am
If you cannot fit in a Bruce Ariens system, you have problems.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 08:53 am
I agree. Better off with Boyle, and I’m not one of his boosters.
Winston is either unfixable in which case don’t want him, needs fixing, in which case one off season isn’t going to be long enough to do much, or was so impacted by the circumstances he had to play him that his record Is grossly misleading. If the last was the case, he is going to want a real chance to play to prove it and GB wouldn’t have been an obvious candidate even before the Love pick.
Personally I think Winston should have looked for a longer deal to back up and retrench. He needs time to reset, and even that may well not work. Don’t want to be that team.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 02, 2020 at 04:15 pm
Winston signed with New Orleans. Those two situations don't seem dissimilar to me. He probably doesn't play in either place, and in both the clear cut starter is getting old and starting to miss time.
$1.1M deal with just $148K guaranteed is cheap. Winston has passer ratings of 84, 86, 92, 90 and 84. PFF grades of 67, 72, 74, 70 and 68. Sounds like veteran backup numbers to me - not great ones, but if you want better, pay up. GB paid up in draft capital and gets less proven NFL ability (Winston has thrown for 19,737 yards in the NFL) but more long-term upside.
Edit: Bearmeat (below) is seems correct to me: Brees is more likely to retire soon than AR is, so Winston might view playing in NO and being in place more favorably than in GB. He might think more highly of the coaching staff in NO as well.
Barnacle
May 03, 2020 at 01:25 pm
NO has a much better GM also
edp1959
May 02, 2020 at 12:41 pm
Then why did they draft that QB - 20 TDs and 17 interceptions.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 01:19 pm
To develop. It is much easier according to prevailing wisdom to correct before confidence is shot. Look at Kizer. Also I imagine that they believe the reasons are correctable: that it isn’t mental incapacity but being too much of a gunslinger. There is, of course, the prior season as a counter weight. If you can do something once over a significant sample of games then, absent injury, tends to point to having the mental faculties to do it.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 01:20 pm
Deleted duplicate
CoryJennerjohn
May 02, 2020 at 07:56 am
Hey Bearmeat,
The Saints just signed Winston for $1.1M. He could’ve been signed before the draft and fulfilled a more immediate need as a backup in case Rodgers goes down. How do we know if Love will be ready if Rodgers goes down this year?
Bearmeat
May 02, 2020 at 08:21 am
Gute didn't draft a backup. They drafted a replacement for Rodgers. Whether that's 1 (unlikely) 2,3, (likey) or 4 (also unlikely) years down the line. Winston wanted a 1 year deal to resuscitate his value and get another shot at a starting gig. He went to a team who has a longtime head coach with a reputation of improving QB play. He also went to a team with a starter who will not be around after this year in all likelihood.
The Packers fit neither of those bills.
CoryJennerjohn
May 02, 2020 at 09:08 am
That’s true. And with such a low price tag for Winston, he could’ve been the backup and Love could’ve learned as the No. 3.
CoachDino
May 03, 2020 at 06:49 am
Do you follow the Packers? Do you really want them to use that capital on A back-up. NO is perfect for Winston for obvious reasons. That will explain the very low price tag.
You kinda skipped the whole part Love being the best guy on the board and what a great option it gives them in the future for a multitude of reasons. It's the viable and explained reasoning by the Packers- might not be right. But we all do know the pick was not made based on his value as the back-up - I'm not saying he will turn out - most don't - that's why I think the article is way off as if Love sucks in 3 years and the Packers are good no one is really going to care. Where's the mention of the Option of getting that draft capital back and more by trading Love in 2 years in Aarron is the choice? Gute and MLF could be gone before we evn find out if things implode. Have you seen the history of the 30th pick in the draft.
Oh and other than Elkins that landed a year 1 starter that made the All rookie team (thanks to Gutes previous years trading/draft) A 7th round draft choice that made the team and was a good ST contributor. Not to mention Gary and the play he exhibited and potential. He doesn't need to be a All-Pro to be a good pick. He plays one of the most critical/valuable positions on the Field. QB being the #! by far. Jace is going to be your Starter at TE this year. Last years draft was excellent.
StantheFan
May 02, 2020 at 10:10 am
What the hell are you people smoking? Acting as if love is guaranteed to be a great quarterback........ sure he might be but the odds are that he’s a back up or out of the league in less than 5 years.......... it’s like barely any of you pay attention to the rest of the league and the failure rate of quarterbacks is the highest of any position in the nfl. Hopefully he’s one,of the good ones but to act as though it’s close to a sure thing is out of touch with the reality of the position and the sport in general...........
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 11:36 am
Very possible on Love...but you don't trade up in the first round for a guy you don't plan to have starting relatively soon. There's no secret here. You can't trade a guy with virtually no game experience for anything close to what they paid for him.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 08:39 am
We do not know that Love will be ready. However, Love wasn’t drafted for this year or next. He was drafted to further develop. If they got it right this is about perceived value for post Rodgers. Boyle could very well come in before him this year.
I am somewhat bewildered by the logic of Gute is on the hit seat and why. LaFleur simply isn’t, it’s the first year of the offensive rebuild he was brought in to deliver.
Murphy was the man who liked and chose LaFleur. It was a perhaps surprisingly Murphy driven choice. He then made sure that neither contracting (Ball) nor Coaching reported to the GM: instead they all are coequal and each reports only to him.
One consequence of that is that Gute can’t simply say here is your roster, live with it. Gute must try to fill the Roster as best Murphy approves. Since LaFleur is Murphy’s choice to reshape and lead the team he is, rightly given that is what he was brought to do, being afforded the authority to shape the team in his image.
Thus Gute’s job is to find the players best fitted to LaFleur’s paradigm. Our round 2 picks are, right or wrong, not only self evidently that but the team has confirmed it.
To judge a system takes years. To judge a QB takes several too. To judge a QB brought in not for now but for a couple of years away you have a built in additional delay. If he plays beforehand out of necessity, one has to remember that this was not the objective. Remember how Rodgers looked initially?
Gute can be judged on the success of individual draftees and other recruits. However, the failure rate is so high in the NFL that that it takes a while to have a clear picture, particularly when the starting point was a threadbare cupboard and a scramble to fill gaping holes and rebuild pipelines. Thus far he has had some successes and failures in recruitment but even his first draft is still to play a third year down. That said, I believe our overall roster is better than when he was appointed.
Unlike most recent GMs in GB, what often derails a GM is on field strategy. Gute didn’t choose LaFleur and doesn’t control him, that’s Murphy. Murphy is the source of LaFleur’s authority to ring changes and thus ultimately responsible for success if the approach and coaching on the field.
Perversely, Gute could do a great job giving LaFleur (and last year Pettine) what he wants and LaFleur could bomb on the field and as a motivator. Since LaFleur is Murphy’s man and report, that’s legitimately on Murphy.
Love’s purpose and timeline is so extended that, if things go bad, LaFleur could be shown up faster than the outcome of the Love pick.
If that happens, LaFleur could be gone and, as his champion, so should Murphy be. If it goes well, no one will care.
Gute shouldn’t get the credit for hiring LaFleur or for reshaping the playing philosophy and roster objectives under the current structure: that’s Murphy’s, whether it is good or bad.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 09:00 am
Maybe Boyle gets traded end of summer?
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 09:48 am
What would you as a GM give up for Boyle? A bag of practice footballs? He has shown nothing in an NFL game that matters. He is a preseason MVP at best. The most we would get is a 7th round pick.
He is maybe Scott Tolzien 2.0. Thanks, Since ‘61
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 11:48 am
Just trying to make the kid feel better, 61. Not certain he pulls in a #7, but he has some system knowledge.
flackcatcher
May 02, 2020 at 06:13 pm
(SIGH) Dude. Murphy is not the final boss on player personnel. Gute reports directly to the executive committee on this. For better or worse, this is Gute's team.... (There is a wall between business outside football, and football operations. Like Ron and Ted before him Gute runs the football side of the house.)
Lare
May 03, 2020 at 04:02 pm
From the Packers website- "....in 2018, Murphy restructured the football operation with the head coach, general manager and executive vice president/director of football operations reporting to the president and CEO, a move that has improved communication and collaboration."
According to their site; Matt LaFleur is the Head Coach, Russ Ball is the Executive Vice President/Director of Football Operations, Brian Gutekunst is General Manager.
If you have anything that shows that Gutekunst does not report to Murphy, I'd love to see it.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 07:21 pm
Yes I know. I also know that the Packers have given Gute complete control over all football operations as he expressed himself in his presser first day last season, and Mark Murphy himself acknowledged in his 'stepping back' statement after. Look, Packers are a private organization that got in a messy public situation with their President. It happens. It would have been better for everyone if they had been upfront. Instead, they will wait another two or three years after Murphy's contract ends, and then they will dribble out the truth a little at a time. Should they do it that way, no. It's unfair to the fans who support the team. But understand, the organization has never in its history had to deal with a situation like this one. By the way, that's a PR statement. Not a statement of organizational intent. The Packer's organization is this since the early 90s. Executive Committee=Owners. President=Chief Operating Officer. VP/GM of Football operations. What is known but not talk much about is the VP of Football Operations reports directly to the Executive Committee along with the President. What the executive committee did was to restate their authority in the organization. To put it politely, they made Mark Murphy a lame duck waiting out the end of his contract. I'll say it again. It's Gute's show, as VP of Football Operations. Right now, it's all on him, for better or worse...
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 08:48 pm
One other point. Up to 2015? Russ Ball reported to Ted Thompson as VP of Football Operations. Some time after that shifted to Mark Murphy. (I swear, this is like following the old Soviet Union) Thompson officially retired in 2017, leaving the Packers without the critical VP for Football Operations. There are real questions if Thompson was acting as GM, or was he GM in 'name only'. At the time I believe he was still acting as GM, but in a reduced role. But until Ted clears his role up in leading to his retirement, that is unknown. What is known is Murphy started the search for a new GM in 2014, then restarted the search in 2016. Murphy cycled through the GM search twice, and stopped altogether in 2017. (all of this is on the public record. It may be behind some paywalls because of age, but it there if you want to search) This is where things get funky. The guy running the Packers pro player side Brian Guteknst contract is up. He is quickly contracted by several teams, among them the Houston Texans. After some contract negotiations he is about to sign when he is contracted by former Packer President Bob Harlan offering him the job as VP of Football Operations. Jason Wilde of Madison Cap Times and ESPN has the entire story, along with a full interview where Guteknst answers every question. Later in the week, Bob Harlan confirms everything including the fact that Murphy tried to block Guteknst's hiring by the Executive Committee. So what was going here? Clearly a power struggle between Murphy and elements of the front office and the Executive Committee themselves. Once Murphy inserted himself in the football side of operations, he forced the Executive Committee to make a decision and act. The Thursday night firing of Mike McCarthy was the final straw. The rest is history. The point is this: If the owners/executive committee had acted as they should have in their Bylaws, then none of this power grab by Mark Murphy would have happened. And Brain Guteknst would have been hired by the Packer Executive Committee two years earlier. A sad episode in the long and proud history of this organization.
Demon
May 02, 2020 at 06:57 am
I assume in 4 years we will have a new coach and GM. guys that continually swing for the fences tend to strike out often. This whole draft looks like a strikeout. No immediate help, several dire need positions ignored, and several players over drafted. Not a pretty sight!
murf7777
May 02, 2020 at 07:48 am
The other side of that thought is......Those who don’t take chances and don’t occasionally swing for the fences live in mediocrity.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 01:43 pm
Which would you prefer? Caution and maybe playoff berths or a chance to win in the parity era?
There are only two ways to do that: incredible luck in a draft or swinging for the fences, arguably both. Timid GMs and coaches are usually out of the league sooner than the ones who swing and miss as long as the logic of why they swung is understood. That’s because all do it: The odds favor missing and, if they do hit, they are legends for quite a while, maybe for ever if it was a generational QB they hit on.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 02, 2020 at 04:44 pm
I think it is hard to know when a GM is swinging for the fences, or even an extra base hit.
When they trade up for a player, I suppose (Burks, Love, Savage).
When they take a high upside guy over someone deemed safer. Gary over Dexter Lawrence or Wilkins, not Burns so much as he had some question marks.
Trading back seems the opposite, and drafting for fit over pure talent as well. The GM will never acknowledge that he drafted for fit even though someone more talented was on the board.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 07:32 pm
The draft is always a crapshoot. As in life, it always comes down to preparation and luck. One can narrow the odds, but never ease them...
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 07:50 am
I believe Love will turn out to be the best of this year's crop of QBs. He has the most complete game. Burrows cannot run like he can and he has a better arm than Herbert. Love Tua but he is not Russell Wilson and his body may not hold up. Who do you want at #30, a WR that doesn't know what a route tree is or another 300# D lineman with questionable run stopping ability? Not going big with an inside guy like Fotu tells me Pettine will run the same and hope for the best. Miami grabs Benito Jones as a UDFA. Now Brian Flores has his NT on the cheap since he couldn't sign Danny Shelton who went to Patricia. Lions will be more stout this year upfront. La Fluer counters with the power runner and speed up the short passing game. There will be very few McCarthy plays in (2020).
Archie
May 02, 2020 at 07:13 am
If Love blows up, obviously it is Gute's responsibility, assuming it wasn't due to injury.
But I don't think that is the fear here. Love is a magnificent prospect. Love 2019 is easily explained away. Love 2018 is the real Love.
Even so, taking Love in this draft is way early considering the contract they gave Rodgers. Maybe the problem here is that contract. But that is done. The only remaining question is how will 12 handle this situation. This signing tells Rodgers that Gute & MLF have decided he certainly will not be the Packer QB for more than 2 more years. 12 was counting on finishing his career in GB. That is no longer in the cards. How will that affect 12? Will he be motivated to give us his best for 2 more years and to do his best to mentor Love along the way? He could. That would be very unselfish. Favre obviously chose to take the selfish path. Rodgers has to know the path that Favre took is wrong. So I see it as he has two choices. The unselfish path described above or get out of Dodge ASAP i.e., force a trade and never play as a Packer again. I can respect either choice. Of course, the latter will destroy GB in the short run because of the gigantic cap hit which will force GB to shed payroll across its roster. But even that would be better than having Rodgers remain for two years, just going through the motions and/or being a team cancer. Bottom-line: you don't give a player the biggest 6 year contract in team history only to draft his replacement 2 years later. It makes no sense no matter how good Jordan Love is.
tm_inter
May 02, 2020 at 07:51 am
Drafting Love makes sense if Rodgers keeps undermining LaFleur's play-calling, as alleged. Displaying tantrums by throwing the ball away whenever he doesn't like LaFleur's playcall is unacceptable.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 07:56 am
Why pay his dead money in 2022?
JonathanSpader
May 02, 2020 at 08:13 am
Because of what we can collect in draft capital 17.5 mil in dead money is worth it if Love is ready but it depends on what we can get for Rodgers as well.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:17 am
When the other team knows you are leveraged, they offer little in return.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 11:28 am
All it takes is 2 suitors...and in a QB-needy league, they won't be hard to find.
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 09:19 pm
Cowboys signed Andy Dalton on a one-year deal...
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 09:41 am
Excellent post Archie. I think that Rodgers will handle this like a professional. His legacy and his brand are important to him. If he wants to be traded out of Green Bay he needs to show other teams that he can and will play at a high level.
He doesn’t want to create a Favre like drama that will hurt the rest of his career and possibly his post-NFL ambitions. Rodgers is not going off to a farm in Mississippi. Rodgers wants to remain active in the sports scene as evidenced by his acquisition of part of the Milwaukee Bucks.
So unless injured Rodgers will play well and bide his time in Green Bay. Rodgers can’t demand a trade due to the unacceptable cap hits. He is stuck with the Packers as much as the Packers are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons.
This puts Gute under more pressure than MLF. Why? Because Gute will need to answer why he used a #1 pick on a clip board warrior when he could have provided MLF and Rodgers with weapons to help the team win now. Which is what sports are all about. If I’m the Packers board of directors I’m wondering why we’re playing Rodgers $30 million a year but not giving him any tools to work with.
How much better would the Packers chances be in 2020 and 2021 if Gute had selected 2 WRs, a DT, an ILB, 2OLs, an RB and a TE during this draft instead of speculating on Love, Dillon, Deguara and a host of 5,6 and 7 round question marks????
This draft wasn’t about winning now it was about keeping Rodgers who is trapped by his contract into keeping his seat warm until Love is ready hopefully in 2 years. If he is not that is more on Gute than MLF. Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
Gravedigger93
May 02, 2020 at 10:19 am
Well said '61, and Archie too.
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 11:06 am
Thanks Gravedigger! Haven’t heard from you in a while. Hope you continue to post more often. Stay well. Since ‘61
murf7777
May 02, 2020 at 01:01 pm
“He is stuck with the Packers as much as the Packers are stuck with him for the next 2 seasons.” If there is 31 M in dead money and his SC is 36M after the 2020 season then wouldn’t there be a cap savings of about 5M? If that is accurate they could trade him after 2020 season
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 01:29 pm
Yes, that’s possible. I would say that the Packers would trade Rodgers after 2020 for the right offer and also depending on Love’s progress. But if Love is not ready to go then they will likely stay with Rodgers for 2021. Thanks, Since ‘61
Bearmeat
May 02, 2020 at 09:50 am
Archie, this may be the best post of yours I've ever read. Well said.
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 10:05 am
Bearmeat agree! Thanks, Since ‘61
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 01:50 pm
Still slightly puzzled at the clear assumption that Rodgers necessarily has to swallow something unpalatable. The offenses that played in this style actually had more big plays than most. The run to set up the pass can make a QB look better. Perhaps he gets that and recognizes that help can come in many forms. Rodgers is pretty acute.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 02, 2020 at 04:38 pm
No one knows AR's future. Love could get on the field in 2020 and especially if it is in 2021 and make Ryan Leaf look good. In which case GB would just roll with AR.
It does make converting more base to signing bonuses harder to contemplate. AR might have a $$36.35M cap number in 2021: I had strongly suspected that Gute would clear $10M cap space for 2021. Might not be in the cards anymore.
flackcatcher
May 02, 2020 at 06:22 pm
I always thought Rodgers contract was a burr in Gute's backside. Mostly because he did not have a say in the signing. But that is more of a guess on my part...
Rossonero
May 02, 2020 at 08:50 am
The entire draft felt like luxury picks. It was as if the front office was saying, "We don't have to address our porous run defense, we don't need any WRs for Rodgers, we're just gonna reach in each round for whoever fits LaFleur's system."
Now, I believe Gutey when he says they would've drafted a WR in the 2nd rd, but trading up to pick 26 had a domino effect: they weren't able to trade up in the 2nd round because they already had traded up once.
By now, it's fair to say Gutey is a far more aggressive -- and you could argue -- impatient GM because he has traded up in all three of his drafts (for Alexander, Savage and now Love).
If I was the Packers, I'd keep Rodgers for the next 3 years, like they did with Favre. By year 4, the final year of his deal, his dead money cap hit is only $2.8M, and the Packers will undoubtedly want to find out what they have in Love before exercising the 5th year option.
So the smartest thing would be to trade Rodgers after the 2022 season. He would be 39 by then. I'd rather they trade him out of the NFC like the Packers did, but of course, he could always return to our Division like Favre did for revenge if the team we trade him to doesn't work out. With teams knowing we'll want to be rid of him, we won't have much leverage. I'd expect a conditional 4th rounder like we got with Favre.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:13 am
Ended up a three pick on the jets deal. If they would have made the playoffs, the Pack would have received a # two. Favre's injury held them back at the end of the year or they would have made it.
Rossonero
May 02, 2020 at 08:49 am
Thanks. I knew it was a conditional 4th rounder but couldn't find more details on it. I don't like saying this, but since it seems inevitable now, let's hope we get something good for Rodgers.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:56 am
He may continue to play at a high level for three -four more years and Love is still under contract. The concern with Rodgers is the concussion history and the screws in his C-bone. He doesn't need to take the risks as he ages
and end up with CTE. Hopefully he can guide the Pack to another SB. Love is still young and a smart guy. He has humility and grit. No worries as they say.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 02, 2020 at 05:12 pm
Moreover, GB traded Favre Aug 8, meaning most teams had spent their money in free agency already. That limited the number of available teams. GB took a $1.4M dead money hit on Favre, so he still had a $10M+ cap number which translates to $20.5M for the Jets. Who has $20M in cap space, needs a QB, is in the AFC, and GB doesn't play them that year, and better the year thereafter as well? Not many.
It always depends on how AR plays. Still, hard to see getting less than a 2nd plus more if traded in March, even if it isn't official until June, of year (insert year).
Rossonero
May 03, 2020 at 10:33 am
Good point Reynoldo. I forgot about the drama over that summer that dragged out Favre's eventual trade. At least this time we don't have Rodgers changing his mind constantly about whether to retire or not.
A 2nd rounder would be awesome. I don't think anyone would be willing to cough up a 1st rounder, but, you never know.
PackerBackerAZ
May 02, 2020 at 02:43 pm
If Rodgers plays for three years they won't be able to properly evaluate Love's play. The new CBA says:
Each player selected in the first round of the NFL draft has a team option for a fifth season automatically included in his contract, which extends the four-year rookie contract to a fifth season for a non-negotiable fixed amount. Teams must exercise this option in the time after the conclusion of the player's third regular season but prior to May 3 of the following league year.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 04:14 pm
Withdrawn...didn't read your post closely enough.
Turophile
May 02, 2020 at 07:21 am
How much Jordan Love contributes to La Fleur and Gutekunst feeling the heat, is imo overstated.
Remember Ron Wolf, Mike Holmgren and the drafting of Ahmed Carroll (5th overall), Or Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy and drafting Justin Harrell (19th overall). Neither of those attempts which, with the benefit of hindsight failed badly, impacted that strongly on the GM/HC. Equally, I don't expect a late pick (Packers moved up to #26 for Love) to be some kind of career breaker for either guy now.
Is the pick important, yes, any first rounder is..........but more than that, not so much. The future of Rodgers seems to be two more years with the Packers, after which he can be released or traded for a $17m dead money hit. I think it's likely his time left with the Packers. He won't leave the Packers before the end of 2021, because the cap hit is too high. That leaves two years for Love to learn NFL play and GBs playbook, before he comes in as QB1.
If the Love experiment fails, the Packers will try again, probably in the 2022 draft. I have no problem with Love cost a 1st and 4th pick, because having a starter-level QB is so important. Fingers crossed he turns out to be the real deal.
murf7777
May 02, 2020 at 07:56 am
Turo.....I agree and add that if Rodgers plays at a high level for 3 years and beyond and looks like he could go another few years, Love could have high trade value if he played well in pre season and mo up duty or temporarily if Rodgers is out for games due to injury. Thus getting back draft capital at a future time. There are more positives that out weigh the negatives with this pick. The future “the man” is not always available for many reasons, so, when you have the chance I’m a proponent of taking the educated risk.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:23 am
Carroll was sherman's guy. Wolf took T-Buck, but the Pack didn't know how to use him. He stayed in the League close to 14 years and pulled in 50 INTs with six going to the House. 15 forced fumbles. Far from a miss for Ron Wolf.
Turophile
May 03, 2020 at 07:42 am
You are quite right, it was Buckley. Now he carried on in the NFL for a long time, but he was a bust as far as the Packers were concerned (being traded after 3 years).
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 01:21 pm
"...and the drafting of Ahmed Carroll (5th overall)"
We do not speak that name...
blacke00
May 02, 2020 at 07:30 am
#1 Rodgers can't really force a trade. #2 Even if he could, the Packers then send him to any team that's willing to except his salary, regardless of where he wants to go. Rodgers than plays for a scrub team (no SB).
Rodgers best case scenario is to play lights out. Play within the Packers system. Win a SB or 2 if possible. Force the Packers to play him.
The players (when they deem it necessary) use the "it's just business" excuse when dealing with contracts just like the owners. Rodgers has to realize it's just business.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 01:28 pm
The problem with when (and not if) the Packers deal ARod is that he'll likely go to a team that thinks it's that one player away from a SB...meaning a middle of the pack team (preferably in the AFC) with a good supporting cast but weak QB--until they dealt for Herbert, the Chargers or even the Raiders would be a great example. So then what happens? IF they actually make a jump, the draft picks the Packers get in return decline in value...so how do you assess his trade value? Very difficult.
I understand your thinking on dealing him to a scrub team. I would argue most teams who are bottom dwellers are unlikely to deal high-end draft capital for an aging, short-term QB who is unlikely to be enough to put them over the top before he retires.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 01:53 pm
Well there is the Brady scenario. Could Rodgers be the young blood they need as Brady gets a little older?
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 04:16 pm
This sounds like a teaser in TV GUIDE..."The Brady Scenario", Friday 8/7 central.
stockholder
May 02, 2020 at 07:44 am
1 game within the super-bowl. Correct! Could have Jamis Winston for a back -up. Check! A complement to Clark? Really! When Gary was more important? Avoiding the Lbs. * For sure * Not getting #12 any weapons. Why? So what is Guteys primary move. Answer = getting #12 salary. I do believe you and Gutey are wrong about getting a Franchise QB. Theisman And Williams helped the Redskins win the Super-bowl. And I'll bet #12, like Payton Manning, will help somebody else win it. Besides; didn't TT and now Gutey, waste #12s best years? And truthfully Favre's. Expect more Whiffing. You only have to look at the drafts to know that.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:45 am
Rodgers completes the pass to Nelson, where he slips on the corner route in the endzone, during the Seattle debacle, Pack wins the game and goes to the SB. If you want Instant Karma from the draft you better have successive Losing Seasons to get up into the Top Ten picks. four or five years in a row like the 49rs. Did the the 2017-18 seasons go well with the Fans psyche?
hobowilly
May 03, 2020 at 11:57 am
Wow. 1) there's a reason why Winston has no where to go..attitude/troubled players usually are sniffed out by Packers and aren't invited 2) Gutey suffered through 2 years of MM's ineptness, now he has MLF, who don't you think did fine his inaugural year?; I'm optimistic GB is back to being a perrenial playoff team--MLF has ALREADY created an improved locker room and pundits can make up all they want out of an AR/MLF relationship, I believe in all three. We may not repeat the stellar 2019 season, but personally i like where this group is headed. Trusting the process, i don't fall prey to so many who judge this draft before 1 day of practice begins (whatever/whenever that is); Let's give an opinion on how last years' draft went after this season. At present like the upsides of Savage, Sterny, Jenkins and even Gary; holman is still on the horizon as is Keke.
Lphill
May 02, 2020 at 07:55 am
I am hoping Rodgers right before game 1 announces his retirement sticking it to MLF and Gute , then comes out of retirement after a year pulls a Gronk and leads another team to to the super bowl .
mrtundra
May 02, 2020 at 08:31 am
I thought of this, as well. I hope it doesn't happen but, if Rodgers is really pissed about not getting any weapons, except for UDFA players, it may be in the realm of possibility. We saw how Favre reacted. I think Rodgers is better than that, though.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 08:51 am
Did he cry and hide in a corner when Ted drafted Brian Brohm with a two pick?
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 08:58 am
Then admit you are not a fan of the team but of the man and go follow his personal blog.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 09:03 am
It is always interesting how many fans really are focused on a player not the team, it’s history and it’s future. I guess it takes all sorts, but there will be times when the interests of a player and a team are at odds.
While I don’t really believe that is so here, it is clear this poster does. My answer is if you put the player over the team, your opinion ceases to matter because your objective and mine differ.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 01:35 pm
Packers hold his rights until his contract tolls. I hope that if he pouts, retires, and files his paperwork (as #4 did) that the Packers hold onto his rights until he's in his 40s.
#12 is too smart for this, though. He knows that if he plays well and is a model citizen, he wins this battle one way or the other. He either forces the Packers to keep him and move Love, or for the Packers to trade him to a team that needs him to get over the hump.
Meanwhile, his public persona plays well, he continues to be a popular guy, and he makes millions post-Packers as a spokesperson, NFL analyst, or whatever media lane he chooses.
His pulling Gronk is about as likely as you pulling your head out of your ass.
arthurl
May 02, 2020 at 08:00 am
This is all bunch of what ifs and half empty stuff. Every team has this going on. How you think Bears fans feel after last season when they had to watch their QB have down season and all that money they spent on their defensive golden boy. Same for Rams, Falcons, etc. Point is Packers tried Graham and that didn’t work out. They tried Burks, Adams and that didn’t work either.
The Love pick is for life after AR. Dillon will be their #2 RB and could become their top RB in 2021 if they don’t resign Jones. Drafting three OL later in draft could also pay off for this team.
I still see them getting WR for slot and DL, ILB help either through trade or pickup.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 09:06 am
I still like Runyan's kid. He can be a RT.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 04:23 pm
I think a lot of Mark Tauscher...
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 04:38 pm
I think their plan is to use Funchess as a big slot.
Statistically, he played better in that role with Carolina than he did on the boundary.
egbertsouse
May 02, 2020 at 08:50 am
Who’ll be on the hot seat? Nobody. The Packers rarely hold anybody accountable for anything. Who should be? Alfred E. Murphy. He’s put himself in charge of everything with his control-freak management style and the buck stops at him.
mnbadger
May 02, 2020 at 08:54 am
Arthurl is spot on. Pack picked up solid veteran DT late yesterday. These signings are where we'll add quality depth to the roster. These guys are the unsung heroes of championship teams. See patriots and belichick's use of free agent pool. All is not lost, we'll be okay. GPG.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 09:13 am
If Willis can get his act together he can show. He had a dominant final season at Miami, but that whole group lacked discipline and focus. Bling time is over.
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 01:36 pm
He's exactly the kind of DE that Pettine seems to favor: a one-gap, upfield guy.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 03:20 pm
The one signed yesterday has done decently against the run.
Lare
May 02, 2020 at 08:54 am
Personally, I think the most pressure is on Mark Murphy. He already went through one downturn keeping Thompson & McCarthy a couple years too long. If the Packers see another downturn with Murphy's hand-picked GM & HC there's really no one else to blame.
Coldworld
May 02, 2020 at 03:22 pm
My fear is that the Board is such a social club now with most having no football credibility that they are effectively non factors more engrossed with enjoying a very nice boondoggle.
It’s good not to be owned by a Jerry Jones, but there are problems with the structure.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 09:17 am
I thought there was a blogger here that promoted the conspiracy theory of Murphy being stripped of some power in favor of Gutey on football matters, by some coup fomented by the Board?
flackcatcher
May 03, 2020 at 09:11 pm
Some of us have day jobs you know? And this is not some damn fantasy or conspiracy theory crap. It was an internal power struggle that leaked out when it got to on the field operations. It got messy. The Executive Committee fix it. End of story. And Taylor is still better than Turner so there...
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 11:08 am
The problem with the Board or most Boards for that matter is they are only concerned with 2 things. The Financial bottom line, in the case of the Packers, are we solvent? And #2, don’t let anything happen that makes us look bad like malfeasance or other serious criminal activity.
Most Boards are usually concerned about shareholder value as well but since the Packers are non-profit and the “shareholders” have no equity that doesn’t matter.
The Packer’s Board knows that the Stadium is sold out 4-ever, they have revenue sharing, and other revenue streams from team paraphernalia and now Packer World, so they are good even if the Packers go 2-14. It only took 20+ years of losing before they brought in Bob Harlan to save the franchise. Thanks, Since ‘61
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2020 at 12:03 pm
Murphy and the Board got the message with 15-20,000 No-Shows at the end of the 2018 season. THe Fans will not tolerate the 70s-80s nostalgia tour or the incompetent management.
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 02:01 pm
Maybe not, but the seats are sold whether the fans show up or not.
Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
Lare
May 02, 2020 at 02:23 pm
"Maybe not, but the seats are sold whether the fans show up or not."
True, but with 20,000 less people that's a fair of money lost in food, drinks, ProShop merchandise and Hall of Fan tickets, not to mention the loss to the Green Bay area.
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 03:43 pm
The Green Bay Area loses more than the team. The team is financially sound, at least based on their annual reports. They have numerous alternate revenue streams at this point.
I do wonder though, if the season is canceled will the league still receive the revenue from the TV contracts?
If not, that might hurt some of the smaller market teams including Green Bay. Sounds like a good suggestion for an article by one of our esteemed CHTV contributors, especially if losing the season becomes a reality. Thanks, Since ‘61
dobber
May 02, 2020 at 04:31 pm
There was an interesting article in JSOnline not too long ago detailing the economic hit the Fox Valley would take in general if there were no Packers home games in 2020. A strong insight into how much the Packers mean to the region's economy. Having lived in that area for awhile, it's scary how much damage no home games would do.
Since'61
May 03, 2020 at 11:02 am
Good point Dobber. I have only been to Green Bay for games during the season so there is always plenty of activity going on. However, I also know that a high % of the fans come from out of the GB area. I usually arrive by Friday and leave on Monday unless it’s an MNF game.
On one of my trips I stayed in GB until Tuesday and it was a much quieter place by then. Plus the Packers were on the road the following week.
It could be tough if no season follows the current Covid-19 shut down. Thanks, Since ‘61
jeremyjjbrown
May 02, 2020 at 09:51 am
I think Pettine is the only one the hotseat. He needs to be able to stop the run too. His defense is behind the curve in the NFL right now.
Lphill
May 02, 2020 at 08:21 pm
Would help if he got some help at linebacker and D line he can’t work miracles.
PatrickGB
May 02, 2020 at 10:02 am
I predict that. Rodgers plays in GB for at least four more years. And I predict that Love fills in well when Aaron gets hurt a couple of times. Love gets attention as a starter for another team but we keep him on his fifth year option and he becomes the next starter at QB when Rodgers retires. That’s my dream anyway.
Since'61
May 02, 2020 at 02:06 pm
I don’t see it Patrick. Especially if Rodgers gets injured. Love will play and if he doesn’t screw the pooch real badly he will become the new starter.
GMs and HCs like to get their guys on the field. Why? Because they don’t have any baggage from the past. They are easily molded into the HCs offense. That is why Rodgers has two more seasons in Green Bay at the most. Unless Love is a bust or is injured.
Wolf built the Packers for Favre, TT built the Packers for Rodgers and Gute has already started building the Packers for Love and MLFs offense. It’s not right or wrong, good or bad, it’s just business and that’s how it goes. New regimes want their people for better or worse. Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
Ds300916
May 02, 2020 at 12:28 pm
I take issue with the statement that only Jenkins is of note from last year. Ignoring the fact it’s only been one year, is Darnell Savage not a noteworthy draft pick? He made the all rookie team! Sternberger and Gary (yes I understand he was the 12th pick) did not have much in the way of opportunity, and they should at least get one more year before we jump to conclusions. To judge the 2019 draft class after one year is shortsighted. Especially with you conveniently ignoring Savage playing well as a rookie.
JohnnyLogan
May 02, 2020 at 12:46 pm
A good backup QB can be the difference between going. to the SB or not. If Love can develop over the next year, then Rodgers going down for a few games won't necessarily end the season. Add in the upside of Love developing into a genuine franchise QB in four years and the pick was worth it. Rodgers will be the starter for at least 3 years. That's almost guaranteed.
Pikeman
May 02, 2020 at 12:57 pm
What was on the horizon that Guety had to give up a 4th round pick for Love. I dont get it. I think he was going to fall for him anyway. The QB relationship will be a lot like the Favre/ Rogers era. Hopefully we will see Rogers step it up a liitle. he has it in him
Ferrari-Driver
May 02, 2020 at 02:22 pm
Hey Cory, I enjoy your articles.
Your quote "This team hasn't had a dynamic presence at tight end since Jermichael Finley..." The only thing dynamic about Finley I ever noticed was his big mouth and constant complaining; I also got mighty sick of his dropped passes and his 4.82 time in the 40 yard dash was pedestrian.
Cory, I realize that you may not agree with my thoughts, but I feel the word dynamic should be used more judiciously and reserved for Packers players like Reggie White, Brett Favre, Bart Starr, Aaron Rodgers, etc. and not wasted on a malcontent like Finley.
Dragon5
May 02, 2020 at 02:29 pm
LLOYDBONAFIDE, formerly Dash, or whatever alias you're using...in response to your Love question:
This draft we acquired TIGERS (LOVE, DILLON, MARTIN) and OX who I've addressed in the recent OL article comments. LOVE is a 4 LP...he is likely to fit the mold of a hardworking, blue-collar no-nonsense persona. Sterling Sharpe was a 4...Mark Murphy, Kumerow, Sullivan, JWilliams, PSmith, Wagner, Funchess, TramWilliams all 4s...you don't hear much fluff out of them..all business. Unfortunately from a historical perspective, I only have Sid Luckman as one of the QB greats as a 4. 2022 will be year of the TIGER, so his time to shine might emerge as early as the latter part of the 2021 season, as will be the case for Dillon & Martin. Although I liked Dillon's tape, he is a 7 LP and will be susceptible to injury more than others...his punishing running style suggests this could be the case...I much preferred 11 LPs Cam Akers and to a lesser extent JK Dobbins in the 3rd; both went late 2nd.
It is interesting that some of the media has already created seeds of discontent among the LaFleur/Gute/Murphy hierarchy. I warned that Gute (OX) opposes Murphy & LaFleur (GOATS) in the chinese astrology realm. We'll soon see if this proposed internal strife grows or withers in the near future. An aspect I haven't seen brought up is that we play a lot of warm weather / dome games this year, conducive to high-octane offense, not ground-n-pound.
I warned in Jan / Feb that Pettine (HORSE) has high odds of being let go during / after this year as he is in his enemy year (RAT). Gute certainly didn't help the defense in the draft and Amos (ROOSTER) could have a challenging year. Unless they're intending to sort through through the cap casualty castoffs for starting material as well as inserting Gary at the 5 tech, it's hard to imagine our DL improving much. To my knowledge, Mike Daniels (SNAKE) is still available and could provide some cheap stability along the trench...if you recall I said let him walk as he was heading into his enemy year last year (PIG)...looks like it couldn't have gone much worse for him in DET. Feb 2021 Murphy & LaFleur begin their enemy years...convenient that a disappointing 2020 season puts not just LaFleur, but Murphy on the hot seat too as Murphy, not Gute, hired LaFleur. And the dynamic of management fingerpointing then comes into play of Murphy & LaFleur vs Gute's execution with drafts & FA busts (Turner, Graham) (recall Gute's a 1 life path, who are aggressive by nature highlighted by his propensity to trade UP in drafts.
This current year of the RAT has been quite pronounced already as RAT years are no stranger to pandemics and market crashes and its effects on enemy sign, the HORSE. Kobe (HORSE) dies the day after the rat year begins. Milwaukee, founded in a HORSE year has the Molson Coors (founded HORSE year) shooting massacre, may lose out on its shot at the NBA Finals as well as the economic boom from hosting the DNC, not to mention the annual economic lifeblood nurtured via Brewers baseball.
Dragon5
May 02, 2020 at 03:25 pm
Boyle is a 9 LP DOG...2024 (DRAGON) is his enemy year. Great 9s in the past Norm Van Brocklin, Bart Starr, Brett Favre. Unfortunately, I know little of 9s as Gary Grinberg @MaxtrixPrime_ has released very little about them and to Gary I acknowledge most of what I have learned about numerology & astrology. I too would love to know as my wife & oldest son are CAT 9 LPs. Think old soul.
I don't get caught up in the hate mail fanclub...if it makes someone feel validated to trash another person's post in a derogatory manner to feel good about themselves, good for them. As we can all likely attest, there's a lot of spineless social media keyboard warriors out there these days that revel in the idea to get that last word in with no repercussions.
TheBigCheeze
May 02, 2020 at 04:37 pm
regardless of what happens, Goofynutz won't lose his job because Murphy's a doofus....
wildbill
May 03, 2020 at 03:09 am
Kizer 2.0. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Hope I’m wrong but we were going to coach Kizer up also.
4thand1
May 03, 2020 at 10:54 am
Gute is looking strictly to the future. The season is still in doubt and Love had a huge upside in this years draft. What will next years draft look like,WTF knows. The NFL could lose billions in lost revenue and what will the cap look like going down the road? With a lot of the country opening up, the next fews weeks is going to dictate where we go from here. I'm on the higher risk scale, so you won't see me going to any games if the grim reaper is lurking in the stands.