Cory's Corner: There Are Plenty Of Wideouts To Go Around
Receivers are only getting better and are coming to the NFL more prepared.
Davante Adams went to the Las Vegas Raiders and now Marquez Valdes-Scantling is going to the Kansas City Chiefs.
I am going to attribute this to Aaron Rodgers: Relax.
Both receivers are solid, heck, Adams is the top wideout in the league right now. Adams caught 72.8 percent of his passes in 2021, good for 16th in the NFC. Adams was also fifth in the NFC with 14 catches of at least 25 yards. Valdes-Scantling was tied for seventh in the NFC with three receiving touchdowns in the fourth quarter.
Losing both guys will hurt an offense that scored 25.6 points a game in 2021 and 28.3 points at home.
But the sky isn’t falling on anyone.
And the simple answer is because of the development of college receivers in the last few years. D.K. Metcalf was taken 64th overall in 2019, CeeDee Lamb was taken 17th overall in 2020, Justin Jefferson was taken five picks later that same year, Michael Pittman was taken 34th in 2020 and Chase Claypool was taken 49th in that same stocked 2020 draft. And of course there’s Ja’Marr Chase, who was taken fifth overall in 2021.
All of those guys are dynamic playmakers that resemble experienced veterans. And the reason is twofold: 1. The freaky athletic kids going to college don’t want to play running back anymore, they want to play either quarterback or receiver and 2. The college game is throwing the ball more and giving it to their playmakers in space. Forty-five NCAA Division I teams threw the ball over 50 percent of the time last year, with one of those being perennial College Football Playoff contender Alabama. Crimson Tide head coach Nick Saban has said over and over that he loves running the football, but Alabama has had four receivers go in the first round of the NFL Draft in the last two years.
Now fast forward to this year. Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst has options. Green Bay has 11 overall picks with two picks in the first round and two in the second. The Packers can wait until No. 22 can likely grab Penn State’s Jahan Dotson or they can package picks to move up to No. 14 and grab either Ohio State wideout — Garrett Wilson or Chris Olave. Wilson has been compared to Odell Beckham, Jr. and Olave has been compared to Tyler Lockett.
Bottom line is, Gutekunst has a plan. He knew that Adams wasn’t going to be coming back to Green Bay and after Tyreek Hill was traded to Miami, he knew that Valdes-Scantling was likely not going to be coming back either.
Gutekunst made the right choice by re-signing the elite quarterback. It doesn’t make any sense to have all of the ingredients correct but miss on the most important position. That could also mean adding Jarvis Landry, who remains a free agent and was well liked as a leader in the Browns locker room last year.
Putting together a roster isn’t easy and Gutekunst must not only find the best pieces, but the pieces that will work best together.
So don’t be upset that the Packers lost two wideouts. The depth of receiving talent is only getting better and what receiver wouldn’t get better catching passes from Rodgers?
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
__________________________
Comments (164)
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:23 am
"and what receiver wouldn’t get better catching passes from Rodgers?"
Kumerow for one...
also, any receiver not in the "circle of trust"...
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 08:48 am
Any assertion relying on the exception to disprove a rule is just puffery. Yes, receivers can come in and contribute, but it’s not the usual state of affairs and we’d have to draft more than we have picks to even up the odds.
As of 2020, only 22 WRs had managed a 1000 yards as rookies in history and about 45 percent were first rounders. There had not been one since Amari Cooper in 15.
At that time, there had been been 98 wide receivers selected in the first round since ‘94 (the start of the cap era). Only nine of them hit 1,000 yards receiving as rookies: less than 10 percent.
We need a number one and a number two receiver at present. That means we need to draft 20 (really in rounds 1 or 2) to get an even shot at 2 1000 yards receivers, which is roughly the minimum amount it will take from a one and two with a decent combination of supporting WRs and other catchers, even with a strong running game.
To the sure fire crowd, such certain picks as Megatron, Keyshawn, Harrison and Hopkins managed ~ 800 as rookies. That’s good, but not WR 1 production in a dynamic offense.
By the way, the advent of immediate contributors isn’t new. Boldin, Moss and Billy Howton to name a few. Yes college football is a passing game, but most offenses are very different, the standard of individuals and defenders as a group greatly lower and most offenses don’t operate on pro lines or face pro style defenses.
A little optimism is great, but this is fantasy. Gute is going to have to pull off a draft for the ages and find a near all pro retread WR as well probably before this set of receivers is anything close to what is required to give the guy paid 50 million a chance to contend.
White92
March 26, 2022 at 08:39 am
This is correct. I'd almost rather see them trade some of that draft capital for Metcalf as long as they could sign him long term. A rookie generally takes 2-3 years to get to the level they need him now though there are exceptions as you point out. It'll be interesting to see which veteran piece they add either through trade or signing.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 08:59 am
I love it when facts get a down vote. Maybe Mark Murphy does read us.
croatpackfan
March 26, 2022 at 09:12 am
Remember when Gute was for many fans a bad (or even ugly) guy on the ship. After he gave the keys of the franchise (by himself or by order) to Diva, now those fans express "In Gute we believe" chant. That turnround is amazing for me. I like to read posts from those fans.
If, by any reasons, this decision turns down to be mistake, I'm really waiting to read more new excuses for Diva and to find who and why is guilty for not winning SB!
From apatience comes perfection! I learned that.
But, you know I mostly agree with your assesment. Our understanding on situation are similar, not the same.
TarynsEyes
March 26, 2022 at 09:57 am
Facts take a backseat to blind optimism and fantasy. Facts hurt the heart, Fodder is brain food.
Stickwin
March 26, 2022 at 03:07 pm
Coldworld: Thanks for your many great posts. This isn't one of them.
To quote David Byrne of the Talking Heads:
"Facts are Simple and Facts are Straight
Facts are Lazy and Facts are Late
Facts all come with Points of View
Facts don't do what I want them to"
Your post introduces facts surrounding rookie1000 yard seasons. These are facts but they are not what matters here. The Packers don't need a rookie 1000 yard receiver in the LaFleur offense.
As for your down votes, there are a few toxic posters on this site who may have it out for you (who knows what user name COW/COW REBORN / COW RE-BANNED is using these days). It is also possible some of us disagree with the opinion posted.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 03:42 pm
Then where do you anticipate the yards from? 2000 rushing, 759 from Tonyan/TE/Hback? From RBs through the air? What on earth is Rodgers for in that really? I suspect we do need a thousand yard receiver from somewhere, but my point was to counter the mirage painted.
It all comes back to the fact that, if the LaFleur offense is for real, we’ve never seen it materialize and we just paid a tremendous amount that could have strengthened the rest of the team.
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 04:14 pm
Lazard went 40 for 513 as the #3 or #4 WR. (Depending on how you look at them.)
MVS went 26 for 430.
Cobb went 28 for 375.
Jones went 52 for 391
Dillon went 34 for 313
Davante went 123 for 1553.
So I would guess we draft at least two WRs who will take over the #1 WR and #2 WR roles and between the two will have roughly 60 catches each for 750 yards, or there abouts.
Or guys will step up. I didn't even mention Deguara, Lewis, Tonyan, ESB, Juwann Winfree, Amari Rodgers, Dafney or Taylor, because they're contributions were minimal.
Someone will get Davante's targets and receptions. We just don't know who yet.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 04:53 pm
I agree on your approximation of the overall required numbers, generally. The problem is one only has so many on the field at one time. There is a gaping hole not explained.
pantz_bURp
March 26, 2022 at 09:30 am
Yes 92, yes! I would love to see da Packers trade for DK Metcalf. And, when Rodgers gives him the death stare. Ol' DK can pull out his pacifier mouthpiece and offer it to Rodgers... brilliant!!!
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:12 pm
Top F-ing shelf.
White92
March 27, 2022 at 07:29 pm
Ya, you know there just isn't enough drama around here..that's the piece that is missing :)
PeteK
March 27, 2022 at 09:11 am
CW, great research on that. However, remember many of those receivers were drafted by poor teams. The rookies we draft will have the benefit of a very good O line, running attack, and a HOF QB. A rookie with 60-800-7 numbers will be fine. Last season we had 3 players reach 40 receptions or more, this season could see 7-Lazard, Cobb, Rookie WR, Jones, Dillon,Tonyan, Dequara.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 09:00 am
A rookie with 750 yards is doing great! I was pointing out that such seasons don’t go on trees as suggested by the author, even less those that would account for about 2/3 of Adams numbers, I used 1000 because there are stats on that.
As a secondary point I was trying to illustrate that we need at least 2 new contributors if we go the draft route, and that requires more than 2 drafted early to have a significant possibility of success.
Barnacle
March 26, 2022 at 04:56 pm
Guet fancies himself a gunslinger and he will make some controversial trades to show his stones.
I hope keeping Rodgers works out for us. But the odds of that diva playing three years without churning the waters are very small.
A very popular word right after most Guet picks is…………REACH.
dobber
March 27, 2022 at 11:45 am
The corollary would be that if the receivers who have returned to GB so far have already been elevated by ARod, the Packers had better find some help.
murf7777
March 26, 2022 at 06:46 am
I agree with your thoughts Cory….By the time of the start of the season they will be just fine at the WR position! GPG
stockholder
March 26, 2022 at 07:17 am
I'm not upset we lost two WRs. And I don't believe any FAN who saw the numbers, is either. Yes, they will be missed. We value are own. But everyone knew; new horses were overdue. The experts have mocked WRs to the packers for years. And Rodgers still gives us a chance. Chance is the word we have to use with this class of WRs. Which one is best. BEST in Show. IT's about that. Not HELP. WE need the best! Dotson has the BEST hands etc. The size is the set-back. So why move up if Dotson is better? Seriously, Size is the problem. Burks has it. Watson has it. The others don't. Either draft the NFL body or forget it. Take The guy best for the Red Zone, or Let's just take defense.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 08:52 am
The draft crush season is now in full bloom.
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:07 am
I thought I smelled something...
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 09:28 am
I’m just miffed because I haven't found mine yet (beyond Trading Rodgers to anyone for picks).
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:41 am
I don't have one either. I don't see the killer 5-tech that will fall in reasonable draft range that I usually covet in this year's draft.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 09:54 am
No, that doesn’t look promising. I’ve not really dug in to edge players yet.
jannesbjornson
March 26, 2022 at 12:00 pm
Alex Wright later on in the low second/third. Winfrey from Okie.
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 01:12 pm
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/danny-gray/32004752-4163-4809-531b-babc7b7...
My new crush in the 3rd round.
6' 0" 185 LBS big hands, 4.33 speed. KO and Punter returner.
PackEyedOptimist
March 26, 2022 at 04:22 pm
I like Gray, too.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:17 pm
so far I am liking...
Logan Hall - DL
George Karlaftis - Edge
Sam Williams - Edge (risky... only as a late pick)
Brandon Smith - ILB
Nick Bonitto - ILB/Edge tweener
Rachaad White - RB
Watson or Pierce - WR early
Bell or Shakir - WR mid-late
Velus Jones or Danny Gray or Romeo Doubs or Johan Dotson as a PR/KR
Dulcich or Likely - TE
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:18 pm
I have not digested the OL yet
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 06:34 pm
Eat slowly, that’s a lot of beef.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:09 pm
yO, JB!!!
I’ve never done this before, but maybe now is a time to start sharing my own notes… and, I’m nowhere near done with this one player. Not even close, but this is how I start reviewing all of them. Since you were the first I’ve seen to mention him… Here you go man:
WR Velus Jones 5-11.5 203 4.31 Tennessee
Slot/KR/PR/Jet 6th year. 25 y/o.
14.7/att PR #3 in nation. 26.6/att KR #19 2 TDs. Bursts through lanes with speed you can’t teach.
3000+ KR yds with 0 muffs!
162 Tgts with only 9 drops with surest hands in class.
Clocked 2nd fastest time by offensive player at Senior Bowl at 21.75 mph.
Yet his play speed is quicker. Acceleration from line a sight to behold.
Routinely catches. Excellent body control, feet at sidelines.
Perfect #2 WR. Screens. 8.3 YAC
Needs work on routes. Choppy steps. So fast he rarely saw press coverage. Willing blocker w good contact balance.
Tough. Feisty. Playmaker.
——
Off top my head, I think this is the kid who was at USC, behind Pittman, Amon Ra, and London - forcing him to transfer for PT… a number of times/programs, before his talents were realized. That’s the reason for the low 162 career targets… and his being an older player.
FFS. What I wouldn’t give to be that old again. Sheeeee-itttt!
TheKanataThrilla
March 26, 2022 at 08:13 pm
Sam Howell
Devin Lloyd
Christian Watson
Alec Pierce
Tanner Conner
Britain Covey
Trevor Penning
Those are my crushes so far. I would love if we drafted them all including the QB.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:36 am
Deep class of talent. Without going into details. Fluff? Cory?
Personally, there - are - specific fit players that I want the Packers to add who offer scheme fits. Flankers. Split Ends. Slot. Jet…. But, never mind about that. Who they are, what positive attributes they offer… you literally did nothing more than name 3 draftees at WR. Wow. At least it’s a conversation starter.
You could have just said, “Wide Receiver. GO!”
Just trust me, the sky’s not falling.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:19 pm
Neither will Skyy Moore if we wait until the 6+ round...
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:21 pm
No shit, man!!! He’s legit too, in the truly minute study I’ve been able to do on him.
Honestly, I look at what we have in terms of draft capital, and how nicely the strengths of this draft mesh with our needs, and I think we might be OK not making a single draft trade.
Picks are insanely valuable. LV got fucking fleeced on that Adams deal. Whoosh! Not complaining here…!
It’s going to be a matter of hitting the picks right. I’m 100% on board with popping WR our first 3 selections. The talent is there to warrant such, as is the need.
Anyone saying you don’t draft for need can shove that straight up there.
Lphill
March 26, 2022 at 07:53 am
No way the Packers start the season with rookies at the 1 and 2 receiver position.
NickPerry
March 26, 2022 at 08:02 am
Hmmm....I don't think they have much of a choice. Gutes not giving away the farm in a trade, at least I wouldn't think so. Now if Metcalf was available, AND a new deal in place if he was traded for since he's in his final year, I'd give up the 22nd in a heartbeat but I'm sure it will be more. Otherwise if the took Olave for example and you combine that with his skills, I think he's totally the #1.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:30 am
Trading appears cost prohibitive given the amount of talent, truly diverse talent at what I’m having confidence saying is the 3rd deepest position group in April’s draft. Not to mention our current cap restraints.
Rookies - plural - starting at WR is highly probable. #22. #27. #53. Don’t be surprised if you see this happen. Flanker. Split. Slot/Jet as our first 3 picks, with at least one of them starting Game 1.
If Gutekunst snaps two in R1, does anyone really think they wouldn’t have what it takes to start?
Getting the best of the best in a deep class is not a bad thing. Do I think it will happen that way? No. However, it wouldn’t surprise me, with the Packers other two top needs being EDGE and OT, the #2 and #1 deepest talent groups come April. (On that note, talk about sliding through shit sideways and coming out smelling like a rose! - top 3 draft needs are the top 3 loaded position groups).
It’s not like we need 2 starters at OT. It’s not like we need 2 starters at EDGE. It, indeed, is like we need 2 starters at WR.
NickPerry
March 26, 2022 at 08:21 am
Hey I hope so greengold...It's TIME to load up the skill positions.
jannesbjornson
March 26, 2022 at 09:03 am
The only trade I would be looking at is a trade up in round one with the #22 and move to the top of the second with the #28 and snag another #3. Pierce is a 4.4 guy and Watson is 4.36 in the track suit. My bias is Olave and Pierce and you get two guys to fill/improve voids. Looking at OT or Edge with the other twos. Ruckert from Ohio State should land in the third. McBride should be off the board in the high 30s.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 09:41 am
I don’t know Pierce, yet. I’m so late to the game in studying players this year for a number of reasons. But, I do like Olave. There are others I prefer, maybe… It’s way early.
No consensus ELITE WR or two in this draft has me thinking the run should start mid round. Projections are 5-6 WRs will be taken R1, with a bigger % R2-R4.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 10:20 am
Wilson, but he will be long gone. Williams and London are injured. Of the best 3, only one without injury/availability questions.
jannesbjornson
March 26, 2022 at 12:44 pm
Being now in the retired ranks gives me beaucoup time to study these guys. I do watch a lot of College ball, especially Big Ten, SEC, and the MAC. I watched most of the Cincinnati games the past three seasons and Pierce is a high two pick. If Gutedkunst wants the Play makers he has to make some moves.
PackEyedOptimist
March 26, 2022 at 04:25 pm
Man, I don't know. Pierce looks really stiff to me. I'd be happy to take him in the fourth, but if you remember Jordy's college highlights, they blew Pierce out of the water.
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 09:30 pm
Not what I see. I see him adjusting to throws from Ridder with amazing body control.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 10:44 pm
Yep. I really like him. So much so, I think we should stop talking about him… why add to the buzz driving him up further? He’s already ascending.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 04:43 pm
Style points awarded, just for “beaucoup,” alone…! Well done!!! That’s a legit endorsement. Can’t wait to check out Pierce.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 08:24 am
We don’t have a farm left to give. Maybe a spare used stable gate.
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:13 am
I can pitch in a rusty milk can and silage fork.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:22 pm
I have a used manure spreader to donate...
Im certain that Murphy could use it...
pantz_bURp
March 26, 2022 at 09:16 am
Ohhh, shoot...sorry Cold! The rusty, bent stable gate has been spoken for. It was offered (and accepted by) to Cobb to sweeten the deal to stay in GB. Yes, no worries, #12 signed off on it...after much deliberation.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:05 am
LOL. Watch it happen.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 08:50 am
Insane as it sounds, it’s quite likely they do unless they find a bargain like Campbell was but at WR this year.
jannesbjornson
March 26, 2022 at 09:04 am
Maybe one of the free agents at Edge like Ingram.
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:18 am
I'm watching Will Fuller pretty closely at this point. Really don't like his history, but if he can still run, he can be a big-game guy who demands a defense's attention take the top off a defense with regularity. He's going to need a redemption year...and GB might be it.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 10:16 am
I’ve been saying for a while that we may be forced to go for such players. As you make clear, each is a gamble but should be cheap and have shown ability in the past. The question. Is will they rediscover that, be bit players, or just injured. Desperation moves, but I’d take more than one into preseason were I Gute.
Minniman
March 26, 2022 at 02:20 pm
I’ve got a name for you that fits in that category - Martavis Bryant.
Currently serving his purgatory in the CFL - and lighting it up by reports - was exiled from the NFL due to personality and maturity issues.
6-4, runs a 4.43 40. Solid performer.
Maybe not a day 1 WR1, but certainly a WR2 and day 1 contributor. Could be acquired for near vet minimum too.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 03:52 pm
He was a perpetual substance abuser. I don’t recall all the details, but if he’s possibly reformed I’d certainly be checking him out were I Gute. Looking him up though, he has had similar issues in Canada, getting kicked off the Argonauts for not showing up.
This is a moment where a Koren Robinson like redemption (preferably with better results) would be massive help. Bryant may not be it, but all doors need to be investigated
dobber
March 27, 2022 at 11:43 am
The FA market is crazy at this point. Jarvis Landry is supposedly seeking $20M AAV on a new deal. These trade/sign deals have blown the market out of proportion for WR. I don't have a lot of faith that the Packers will find a cap-friendly reclamation project with any kind of ceiling off the FA market anymore, and that includes Fuller.
It's starting to look like a veteran who could make some difference would have to come by trade.
NickPerry
March 26, 2022 at 08:18 am
I've been playing around on PFF and the Mock Draft Simulator (Like that means anything!) and I've consistently landed Burks and sometimes Olave which I'd be happy as hell with. Burks is so raw and I actually think Olave might have the better rookie year, but man o man does Burks look like FUN!
Dotson can be had in the 2nd and so can Watson IMO. Alex Pierce is interesting but I'd imagine they have to use a 2nd to get him because he's not last until the Packers pick in the 3rd.
My hope is the Packers take 2 WR's, a O-Lineman, and an Edge or D-Lineman in the first 4 picks. OR, since they signed Reed, maybe you take the 2 WR's, a Edge, AND hopefully McBride, the TE from Colorado St. It's TIME Gute went out and got LOADS of help for Rodgers and Love or fill in the blank down the road.
Right now the Defense is WAY ahead of the offense. Gute must LOAD up at the skill positions this draft. Otherwise that ridiculous contract Rodgers signed becomes EVEN MORE RIDICULOUS!
Get it done Gute...Go Pack Go!
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 09:32 am
There’s some fun stuff there, Nick.
This real is so early. The boards will shift greatly over the next month. Much can change regarding draft risers & fallers, and what the landscape will be on draft day, as you well know.
I might like a couple of the players you’ve mentioned, and I’ve got some other favorites through some minimal study.
Thankfully, there’s a lot of great, diverse talents for GB to choose from. We need that diverse set of offerings, now. 100% agree.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:27 pm
GG, the film is in the can and the interviews have been had. Medicals have been determined.
All the board shifting from here on out is all smoke and mirrors to cover who covets who and to jockey for position in draft day trades.
Dont believe any outlets, media gets fed garbage and teams lie through their teeth.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 08:42 pm
Exactly. I never buy into stuff, but believe me, I was a very early covetous bastard on Darnell Savage, and that kid must have ridden a 2 round climb into R1 only to be traded up for by Gutekunst. That lit me up like a Christmas tree.
I just follow my eyes on tape, the histories, character, toughness and the maths in arriving at my own personal favorites. I study this stuff so much, as it just takes me back to a really good place, and it keeps my ass out of trouble. The kind of trouble unique onto myself. Trouble with a capital N…
T r o u N b l e . . .
(It makes more sense with really stellar whiskeys involved)
Actually, I just like saying that because it sounds funny, and it’s part of a fav story my long lost father in law told me about being on a train in Japan in the War, guy next to him said that to him, got up, walked down aisle, and literally went sideways, falling off the train. LOL
Johnblood27
March 27, 2022 at 09:14 am
Nice story! LOL!
The train conversation must have been after the war, our guys didn't ride any trains in japan until after the BOMBS and capitulation by Japan. Occupation forces I'm sure.
I am a big War In The Pacific history buff, one of my life goals is to visit as many Pacific War theatres as possible. Saipan, Guam and Tinian are checked off. I have been through hiroshima as well.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 08:59 am
We haven’t had pro days, which can shift perceptions a little, but by now most teams boards are pretty much settled except for shift in internal considerations arising from trades or player negotiations.
croatpackfan
March 26, 2022 at 09:02 am
"Gutekunst made the right choice by re-signing the elite quarterback."
Elite? Right choice? Time will tell, but, somehow, I still see that as huge mistake that will cost a lot Packers in the future. We can hope (and hope is fool's value) that Diva will not continue his "trust" bullshit towards receivers, WR or TE. Also, abilities of "elite" Diva started to diminish. Lets hope that father time will be merciful with Packers and that will not speed up already this season. Because it will be ugly in 2023 season!
So, we, as fans, can only wait to get answer. All this "positive" talks could just rise expectation, but there is no warranty fans expectation will be met.
I'm more on different approach. Lets see what will happen through early season (OTAs and TC) before we can have more info about what will Packers be able to achieve...
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 09:31 am
Elite QB at vast expense plus WHO at WR and no cap spare is folly. No other way to look at it. Many who agreed in advance seem now not to see it. That doesn’t change anything.
Guam
March 26, 2022 at 09:15 am
I suspect the Packers will add one or two talented rookie WRs from the draft and may even add a talented veteran WR later in free agency. None of which assuages my larger concern - how quickly will Rodgers develop "trust" with any of them? Rodgers is almost pathologically averse to interceptions and he wants receivers that run very precise patterns that allow Rodgers to throw to spots on the field. I am not sure any new WR, rookie or veteran, will be able to satisfy Rodgers wishes quickly. I am concerned the Packers passing offense could be significantly out of sync until "trust" develops or Rodgers displays more willingness to take chances and throw receivers open (and given Rodgers personality, seeing him change just doesn't seem likely).
ColdWorld has often made the point that keeping Rodgers and letting his "trusted" WRs go makes little sense. Others including the author believe new WRs, whether veteran or rookie, can step in and the Packer passing offense will be just fine. I have no idea, but I will be watching the upcoming season with great interest..........
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:37 am
"I suspect the Packers will add one or two talented rookie WRs from the draft and may even add a talented veteran WR later in free agency."
I think this sounds about right, and a dual-purpose TE who can play in-line early (they'll need a replacement for Lewis soon).
"Others including the author believe new WRs, whether veteran or rookie, can step in and the Packer passing offense will be just fine."
I think relying on rookie WR is a gamble that's out of line with the current track being taken by management. Maybe BG thought for sure he could lure MVS back and bolster the WR room that way, but right now, he's got limited veteran options in his price range on the open market.
spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 09:33 am
Or maybe Gute got stuck in a no win situation by others? We have signed Rodgers and constructed a roster for Love.
LambeauPlain
March 26, 2022 at 11:42 am
My fear is Murphy is making all the decisions on player moves and Gutey is just a glorified assistant. I think Murphy may have told Gutey to forget trading Rodgers for a Diva's ransom because the Packers were keeping Rodgers at all costs.
Gutey, who has MLF and Ball also reporting to Murphy, truly weakens his GM authority and decision making.
Previously, the Packer GM would seek input from from the HC and Finance head prior to making HIS player decisions. Under "Murphy's law", Gutey has to have consensus from the Management Council and Murphy's veto power prior to being "allowed" to execute.
I do not believe this is speculation. MLF interviewed Rizzi (one of the BEST) for ST coach and Gutey was all for it. Gutey had an offer in hand, but Murphy vetoed it because Rizzi wanted too much money. Gutey had to lobby Murphy and after a few days, Murphy finally relented and said to sign him. Gutey called Rizzi who said "no thanks now. I have moved on" to New Orleans.
jannesbjornson
March 26, 2022 at 12:35 pm
The silage committee becomes the Siloviki.
Minniman
March 26, 2022 at 02:31 pm
Either way, right-here-right-now it doesn’t seem like a vote of confidence from Gute in Jordan Love.
The optics look like he (knowing full well that Adams was unlikely to return) decided that he could acquire replacement WR’s easier than banking on Jordan Love to ascend…… at least, that’s what the optics look like to me.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 04:54 pm
ICGAF about optics. Jordan Love is a quality talent, and Aaron Rodgers has had a proverbial gun to Green Bay’s head for more than 10 months.
Nothing personal with you, Minniman, at all. I just wish fans would let Jordan find his way, and support him, rather than project negative stuff in pile-on fashion like many do.
Could be the Packers want to just ride with Rodgers starting, and Love continuing to back him up.
Could be that Rodgers is already about to be traded. Plans and perspectives change drastically then.
Could also be that in one of the ALL-TIME weakest QB draft classes I’ve seen in decades, Jordan Love gets traded for a shit ton of picks.
We’ll see.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 04:59 pm
I think other events just made him irrelevant. This roster looks to be designed for him not Rodgers.
Minniman
March 26, 2022 at 05:16 pm
Fair call GG.
Please do note that in my post I attempted to not cast aspersions on Love’s long term potential - merely the decisions that Gute is being faced with to try and keep the roster competitive during this transition period.
FWIW I’ve been reading (and observing in CFB) since October last year that this was going to be a strong WR draft class.
Like you said - we will see.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 06:04 pm
Sorry, Minniman. The way I worded that response has been bothering me and had no I’ll intent. Jordan Love got shafted by his own HC in his first NFL start on so many levels that Matt LaFleur owes him more than an apology. It was an incredible disservice to Love, and really a dereliction of his duties. 100%.
Yeah, so little makes sense. I mean, real football sense… UNLESS:
1. The dead cap hit actually is just a hair under $30M post June 1,2022, making him tradable. ??? Anybody really know?
2. A team like the NYG, with a boatload of players & picks to make a legit offer were in fact participating in establishing terms of AR’s extension.
3. GB can walk away with a ton of assets and their future cap in a far more healthy condition.
4. Jordan Love is allowed to take the wheel with a supercharged infusion of young talent to start a new era in GB.
I’m not seeing any positives to AR remaining our starter. A vet FA WR addition isn’t going to help. Won’t be on same page, just like the rookies AR has been known to disdain. A leopard doesn’t change his spots.
Rodgers has been sitting on the couch watching the SB like the rest of us for 11 years. Why? One undeniable reason is he himself got pass happy, in every advancement opportunity where GB failed.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 09:08 am
The way LaFleur handled Love last year is a cause for concern for future QBs. Taking a guy into the season with no pre season game time with the starters, a game plan for Rodgers and one walk through practice (admittedly this was due to timing and Covid protocols) is odd. Then having him practice with the starters only to play him against Detroit only when they were withdrawn but still on a Rodgers game plan. That’s not the best way to give any young QB the best chance to succeed.
dobber
March 27, 2022 at 12:29 pm
LaFleur handled his team and his vets like a coach who felt he had a potential SB team and didn't want to risk players when he knew he didn't have to, and he took it to the extreme of putting them in bubble wrap and sacrificing the opener against the Saints..
In that vein, his treatment of Love pretty much fits. Love, for the most part, executed the offense against Detroit. He was making progressions, finding receivers (such as they were), and he scored some points. Not dynamite, but under the circumstances, it was decent--not thrilling--but decent.
blondy45
March 26, 2022 at 03:10 pm
The draft is usually for the future to build and refortify the team for the next 2-4 years. This year looks different to me. We must hit on short term contributors at WR, (2 of them) TE, and RB. Edge, D-Line, and O-line need refortified. If we hit on some of those picks, we still are not in the running to be in the Super Bowl. Win the division, yes. Rodger's blew his chances the past two years by being too focused on Adams in both playoff loses, in hindsight of coarse. IMO I believe the Pack should have traded Rodgers. I know this is not a popular view with the Pack's fans. But with 20-20 hindsight, FA WR are NOT lining up to be a part of Rodgers's "circle of trusted WR's". Just the reverse has happened, Adams, ESB, and MVS all left. Did they really like being in Rodger's "cloud cover"? The teams that acquired those three all over-paid in my opinion. I have no problem with any of those WR's getting paid or over paid. The reality is we are indeed still drafting for the future.... Love's future team. Our Defense will be stellar but wasted on our deva who is still present and is trying to rule the decision making process. There is still no "I" in team, and Rodgers still does not understand that. Offensive chemistry will suffer greatly early and often this year. I hope I am wrong though. Go Pack GO!
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 05:19 pm
blondy, preachin’ to the choir!!!
Awwwwwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-ha-ha-hoooie!
Yeah, I agree completely. I hate what has happened. I don’t agree with caving to him. I don’t trust him to close the deal in leading this team at the most important position on any team to winning another Super Bowl.
Despite that, I will support this team. Whichever way the personnel becomes aligned. Holding out hope they work a draft day blockbuster to be finalized after June 1st to move this team forward. Eh…
None of it makes fiscal sense. Little makes football sense. Rodgers is a rogue agent, as evidenced by his throwing to no other WRs but Adams, for 3 entire quarters, at the expense of our advancement opportunities.
Maybe, maybe, we catch lightening in a bottle. If they keep Rodgers, that’s the bet they’ve made, and it’s not a good one, IMO.
croatpackfan
March 26, 2022 at 05:48 pm
It is there another opportunity. AR was looking at some posible franchises for trade, but all of them refuse to pay him what he called "team friendly" contract. That may be the reason why he waited that long to announce the decision that he will come back.
You should not expect that any of the contact publicly admit that. There is 2 reasons for: 1. those contacts are illegal by NFL and 2. you will rarely hear anything about negotiating processes between players and franchises.
Guam
March 26, 2022 at 09:47 am
Even if they can get a good veteran WR, will that be the answer? Rodgers seriously underutilized his buddy Cobb last year and never seemed to connect with Funchess during his limited stay with the Packers. I just don't know if there is a good short term answer. And that doesn't bode well for 2022 despite having Rodgers return.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 10:22 am
Rodgers didn’t play in the preseason so he didn’t have much chance with Funchess in any meaningful sense. Other than the last game where I agree Cobb was entirely ignored (was he really a decoy only?), the issue with Cobb was he’s on a perpetual snap count. The one time they pushed that, he went down injured.
This year Rodgers has nowhere to hide. He has to throw to someone or things are going to spiral down fast. If he starts being passive aggressive it’s not going to be hard to see an issue and attitude developing. These aren’t his guys anymore. They likely will have spent more time with Love and as a unit without him. None of this is sane coaching or leadership.
Guam
March 26, 2022 at 10:21 am
I should have added Jimmy Graham to the list of underutilized veteran receivers - Rodgers never seemed to make much connection with him either. I am deeply concerned that Rodgers has no security blanket at WR now and he is either going to adjust or the passing attack is going to implode.
Your last paragraph is absolutely spot on. Keeping Rodgers and losing Adams, MVS and ESB is placing way too much reliance on Rodgers to be able to adjust and accommodate. I hope the Packers made the right choice, but I am fearful it could blow up in their faces.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 10:32 am
Right now, were this the Bears, we’d be laughing at the foolishness
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 10:38 am
boop.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 06:09 pm
FLOL.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 10:44 am
Graham dropped so many passes...bad example. It would have been interesting if Gute resigned the WR'S and told AR this is what we have left for you to resign with instead of letting every WR walk. I was not a DA fan after wanting highest paid WR...and it lasted 3 days or so before Hill reset it again and same with BAK. Can't win a Championship like that.
Guam
March 26, 2022 at 11:49 am
Neither Funchess nor Graham are great examples, but I spent my treadmill time this morning trying to remember a single veteran WR the Packers brought in that had any significant success with Rodgers - and drew a blank. Maybe my memory is shot, but whatever I can remember does not give me great confidence that a veteran WR is the answer to question this offseason.
Bitternotsour
March 26, 2022 at 01:03 pm
Cook at TE. Letting Cook go for an extra million was a huge error. The Bennet signing was disastrous.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 09:10 am
That was Russ Ball who shut down negotiations.
jannesbjornson
March 27, 2022 at 01:04 pm
Why is that guy still drawing a salary?
LambeauPlain
March 26, 2022 at 11:27 am
Agree...Rodgers has no where to hide. My concern is if he has an off year...given his petulant and fickle personality, I could see him retiring after 2022. Or threaten it again unless he gets what he wants for 2023.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 09:23 am
I have to wonder what Mr Rodgers is really thinking at this point. We are heading into a season when he will turn 39 with probably one of the weakest catching corps he has ever had. Perhaps he knew that and the money was adequate compensation, but it could be that the plan has not proceeded as expected.
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 09:37 am
"Cory's Corner: There Are Plenty Of Wideouts To Go Around"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro
Rossonero
March 26, 2022 at 11:08 am
All is well!! LOL classic
wildbill
March 26, 2022 at 10:14 am
Don’t watch college ball so all the college WRs are unknown to me. One thing I don’t see mentioned in the numerous Packer sites I go to is the veteran WRs who will be available after the draft. It’s a crapshoot for sure but I would not be surprised by some of the WRs cut. That’s when old Gute employs the scoop-a-matic.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 10:28 am
He needs to find the equivalent of Campbell and Douglas in wide receiver form and at a similar price and draft additional talent too. Perhaps Cory could help him climb through the eye of that needle.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 10:50 am
I predicted Gute would have to get to 20 to draft Jefferson, knowing Queens sent Digs to Buffalo. He didn't do it and here we are. He was in: LOVE. BTW: Nobody is coming to GB because of AR.....He hoards all the cap space for the rest of the team.
Swisch
March 26, 2022 at 11:11 am
Which is why it would've made even more sense to pay a little extra for MVS.
On the plus side, there's the hope that MVS breaks out as a WR1, perhaps a star, as he enters his prime years -- consistently showing what he did in the big playoff game against the Bucs (4 catches for 115 yards and 1 touchdown) with more opportunities.
On the minus side, there's little chance of finding someone satisfying to replace MVS at about $10 million per season.
***
A guy like Metcalf going into his prime is going to break the bank, while the older wide receivers are big risks as far as declining performance and injury (even one who has success can break down like OBJ).
Then there's the important consideration of losing both MVS and Davante, meaning we have to find two guys who are ready to click with Rodgers right away at a high level for an entire season.
***
Which brings it all back to why the Packers didn't want to keep MVS, or why MVS didn't want to stay with the Packers.
Does anyone ask such questions nowadays?
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 11:25 am
Anyone with 4.3 speed could replace MVS day 1. Run fast...catch ball...30% of the time...DONE. OH, YEA, stay on the field 8 games a year.
Swisch
March 26, 2022 at 11:27 am
So, are you saying that the highly successful Chiefs -- with perhaps the best offense in the NFL -- made a huge mistake in signing MVS when they could easily find plenty of guys just as good?
LambeauPlain
March 26, 2022 at 11:49 am
Good question. After the 2022 season we will know the answer.
The Packers apparently offered MVS a big payday for 2022 but had no resources (or desire?) to give him a multiyear deal, like the Chiefs did. It seems the Chiefs placed more potential value on MVS than the Packers, who know him better.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 12:42 pm
Well, they had no resources so the Packers went prove it with incentives is what I heard. Kansas just gave him a straight forward contract with Mahommes and a passing O.
Swisch
March 26, 2022 at 02:19 pm
You're right in that only time will tell.
As I've written, a key to being a successful GM is paying for the future and not for the past.
Whatever MVS has done or not done in the past, apparently the Chiefs think he'll break out into a wide receiver worth about $10 million per year. MVS isn't Tyreke Hill, but then again he doesn't cost nearly as much, and may be a better value.
My concern with the Packers is that we'll sign an aging veteran on a large salary based on his past performance, which is about to decline.
***
My main point is the opinion that MVS isn't as easy to replace as it may seem.
It seems for the most part that the choices available to the Packers are either rookies unlikely to be ready to excel in the NFL for a season or two, or veterans who have the savvy but are losing their edge in athleticism. Too young or too old.
The Packers seem to have been penny wise but pound foolish with MVS, especially after lavishing vast riches upon a quarterback who is unreliable on and off the field.
Again, we'll see -- although this forum seems an opportunity for us fans to take a stand and voice strong opinions for what we see as the good of the Packers.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:51 pm
Maybe KC just believes that THEIR QB will throw him the damn ball when he is open and actually hit him deep and not under throw him when he IS open.
just sayin...
jannesbjornson
March 27, 2022 at 01:08 pm
He now has the Sammy Watkins role. See if MVS transcends his game or ends up like Sam.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 01:15 pm
No I'm saying they lost in FA the fastest, productive WR's in the league. They signed MVS a fast tall WR who now will get thrown to more than ever before.....he's improved but was late round pick and is as of now a #3-4 WR. He had 3 TD's last season....and 400+ yds. I think he's a good kid, liked his at home clips talking with him and had his dog w/ him. KC is all about speed and GB needs to follow. I like Lazard but I want a Lazard type that runs 4.5's or less. I liked DA but want one than runs 4.4's or less. MVS is getting better w/ drops but wasn't on the field enough.
Yes, easily replaceable in this draft RD 1-3.
dobber
March 26, 2022 at 12:07 pm
From his rookie year in 2018 until 2020, MVS played in all 48 regular season games the Packers played.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 01:20 pm
Sure: 2 TD's/ 2 TD's/ 6 TD's and 2021 3 TD's. Pretty easy to replace his type in this draft and with more upside. catch % 52.1/ 46.4./ 52.4/ 47.3. I wish him all the luck...a good kid. I'm sure he will be thrown to more with KC.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:53 pm
Do not attempt to sidetrack the discussion with actual facts, that doesnt fly here...
greengold
March 27, 2022 at 06:21 am
I know. I was literally shaking my head reading some of that…
pantz_bURp
March 26, 2022 at 10:51 am
I don't have any really solid answers or thoughts at this time except, well... desperate times call for desperate measures. Now, the chances of this working are slim to none: someone needs to send surf-n-turf Murph a beautiful prune pie with a thank you card accompanying it to the bunker at 1265 on Draft Day. Around pick 10-13, Russ hands Murph the wrapped box with said pie and tells him best to try a piece ("the bigger the piece, the better", Russ whispers in his ear slyly).
Here is where it gets a little dicey. We have to time it so Gutester is able to man the phone while Murph is indisposed in the "library" without cell reception. At this very point Guteman has the keys to drive the G-Mobile...about 5 minutes tops! Gute will be so busy looking at his rolodex and the clock like a one-eyed cat trying to look at 2 mouse holes at the same time...
Go, go, gooo
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 10:58 am
"The Packers can wait until No. 22 can likely grab Penn State’s Jahan Dotson or they can package picks to move up to No. 14 and grab either Ohio State wideout — Garrett Wilson or Chris Olave."
WT%? No, and Hell No.
SMH
This scenario sounds much like something that might happen if the Bares kidnapped Gutey and did the exact worst thing possible for the Packers.
I'm sorry Cory. I know you have to write something, but trolling your own fanbase seems silly.
PackEyedOptimist
March 26, 2022 at 04:31 pm
If the Packers trade up to take a WR, I'll be in danger of an aneurism. I'm hoping 28 and 59 become guys like George Pickens and Khalil Shakir (Donald Driver?).
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 05:31 pm
Personally, I would rather have Christian Watson at #28 and Danny Gray at #59. Check out Danny's highlights. He also returns punts and KOs.
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 06:17 pm
Both are pretty raw with respect to routes and technique. They are high ceiling players but lower floor, particularly this year. To me (and I really want Watson) both would be way to high there for us, even if Gray can return. Watson’s combine is causing him to rise dramatically, but that’s on future potential.
Here’s someone worth a look later: Dareke Young
Small school (Lenior Rhyne) freakily athletic receiver. He is 6’ 2” 223 lbs and has a history of carrying the balm out of the backfield as well. Blocks well and has played all over STs, including kick return. He’s raw as a receiver certainly, but has proved a deep threat and more.
Supposedly timed sub 4.4, he has recorded a 43.5-inch high jump. 124-inch broad and has 10 1/8 hands with wingspan 78 1/8 inches and recorded 16 bench-press reps.
A similar type pointed out to me today: Tanner Conner from Idaho. Big receiver, good blocker too. Both could be late round types that could perhaps Fill roles early and help STs and have upside.
PackEyedOptimist
March 26, 2022 at 08:29 pm
I was the first to sing Watson's praises here (Waaay back...December?), but I've cooled on him a bit. He drops a lot of passes, and what we need this year is guys who DON'T. That's why I love Pickens and Shakir, they have crazy good hands/flexibility. Both caught passes few could catch.
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 05:49 pm
Watson is 6' 4" and fast... Danny Gray is an absolute burner. I know we all have our own favorites, but speed is something we sorely lack, so I would expect Gutey to try to draft at least some speed. Hell, I hope he drafts Taquan Thornton in the 4th round. Speed kills.
EnemyTerritory
March 26, 2022 at 11:15 am
This offense is designed around the TE and RB. The diva QB will have to establish trust with rookie WR imho who will not be required to put up 1200 yards. Give me a couple solid WR that can put up 700-800 yards each and can develop and perhaps break out in year 2. Add a low cost veteran now and then pick the WR that suits what you want to do offensively. The draft is not the end of the story either given in season acquisition potential especially at the trade deadline I.e an OBJ and the likelihood the packers have a bit more cap space to play with than last year
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 11:43 am
In that case we could have started Love, Benkert or whomever. No need to pay for an elite QB in that scenario and a lot of reason to invest in the supporting cast. That’s the contradiction at the core of this.
Packerlifer
March 26, 2022 at 11:42 am
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/23/2022-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-wide-...
frankthefork
March 26, 2022 at 11:49 am
Very nice thx.
frankthefork
March 26, 2022 at 11:48 am
With so many choices at WR, and little cap, it's a go draft and develop at this skill position this year and next with a FA signing. 11 picks this year, and looks like 12 or more(w/comps) in 2023.
But BG always keeps us Packer fans guessing. So, can we expect a trade or FA signing to happen prior to the draft, as GB is missing it's true WR1 and WR3-right now? I expect 2 WR's drafted before the 5th round and a FA pick-up. Trading is too costly-imo!
wildbill
March 26, 2022 at 12:00 pm
Except for having Moss for a few years, when did the Pats have a real #1 receiver? You could say Welker/Edelman but those are really move the chains slot guys. If Rodgers could emulate Brady and just take what the defense is giving and move the chains, this offense would be fine. But then he wouldn’t be Rodgers would he….
LambeauPlain
March 26, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Rodgers will have to find his WR #1 post Adams.
During Sharpe's last year in 1994, he was for Favre what Adams was for Rodgers. His top target by far. WR #2 for Favre that year was (1992 draft choice) Robert Brooks (648 yards). In 1995, without Sharpe, Brooks easily became WR#1 with over 100 receptions and nearly 1500 yards.
I know most believe Lazard is not a #1. But I have a strong feeling he is going to get a good shot at the role like Brooks did.
Johnblood27
March 26, 2022 at 06:58 pm
Lazard was a #1 at iowa state. He was fed the ball and was a man among boys when he got it.
jannesbjornson
March 27, 2022 at 12:54 pm
Why he was not at least a three pick shows the fallacy of some so-called Professional personnel department evaluators. Some are just friends of the Family or some other vacuous connection in a three decade food chain.
Milt Hendrickson saved the Packer front office.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 26, 2022 at 02:23 pm
And they didnt win it all when moss was there either.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 03:07 pm
Moving the chains...just about the most obvious thing a QB can do to get a fresh set of downs and move closer to the goal line. TB12 IS THE GOAT as he has mastered this concept and used it to obtain FAR MORE RINGS than ar. I will say the Slot weapons were damn near money on the catch also. ar throws short passes in the dirt at a high rate or the opposite...high. For all his accuracy acumen it is very average in the short pass, which should be easiest. Our injured OL members should be healthy by mid season and hopefully this keeps ar from the yips. We know DA will not be his go to. I wonder if he second guesses the xtra 10m of his salary now? I also wonder if ar could win MVP with the assets GB has or will have after this draft??
LambeauPlain
March 26, 2022 at 12:15 pm
Of the highest ranked WRs, Wilson will be long gone and I would not trade both #1s to move up and take him. Several in the next tranche have slot guys like Cobb and AmRod or players with recent serious injuries. Injuries do often linger or resurface.
For a team in a cap cage, they need to draft top talent to play for 4 or 5 years on rookie deals. This is a draft where Gutey can have BOTH quality and quantity. And they need players who will contribute NOW.
That continues to lead my focus to Olave and Burks. I do think Rodgers would lean on either player as rookies and make them very productive...not Adams production...but solid production as RBs and TEs increase their % of targets.
I now believe another WR will be selected in the second (Dotson, Watson?) and another in the 3rd or with one of the 4ths among the BAP on their board.
beerandbrats
March 26, 2022 at 12:24 pm
Nobody wants to hear it but Antonio Brown would fill a huge short term need. Nobody wanted Andre Rison but that worked out pretty well for the Packers. AB wants attention and AB wants to be a star. The Packers offer AB an opportunity to walk in and immediately be WR1. The Packers offer AB an opportunity to team with AR12 and win a championship together. It's a risk but I think the Packers are in a position to get the best out of AB, at a very affordable price.
wildbill
March 26, 2022 at 02:23 pm
No need for bad Mojo when it appears this team has a good locker room
Duneslick
March 26, 2022 at 03:58 pm
Who wants a quitter
beerandbrats
March 26, 2022 at 05:33 pm
I want Jarvis Landry but Landry wants $20M a year. DK Metcalf would be an awesome pickup but he's going to want $20M a year as well. The Packers can't afford any more $20M players! We only need a veteran WR for 1-2 years as the draft picks develop. AB is a problem child but he provides great value for the price!
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 06:29 pm
I’m not sure Brown and Rodgers would not be incendiary. Then again, Brown may never be far from spontaneously combusting.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 27, 2022 at 11:03 am
They're both weird enough that it might just work lol. They can spend their off days trading conversation about game plans and flat earth theories.
Handsback
March 26, 2022 at 12:38 pm
Can't remember who said it first, but know Vic Ketchem used to say it as well...receivers are a dime a dozen.
Adams and maybe 6 others can be game changers. Do you have to have one to win the SB? No...but if you have a playoff quality team they can get you over the hump. I'm sure by the time the season starts, the Pack will have enough receivers to get the job done.
BirdDogUni
March 26, 2022 at 01:19 pm
Yet, the one play we needed Adams to make, he was double covered, failed to come through, and we sat at home watching two other teams in the NFCCG.
Easy to blame Rodgers for not throwing to the wide open guys, but the best WR in the league needs to make plays when the game is on the line too.
That might be harsh, but it's still true.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 01:54 pm
Poor coaching not holding QB accountable and pointing out open receivers in post game review. I promise you Holmgren would have. All on the QB/ COACH.
BirdDogUni
March 27, 2022 at 12:35 pm
Good thing we have a new/old QB Coach... ;P
Hoping Clements gets AR focused for a couple Championship seasons.
jannesbjornson
March 27, 2022 at 01:15 pm
They went the Holmgren playoff attack scheme to score TDs early and hold out for the duration, but Lewis fumbled the ball approaching the red zone. Every play matters, they were lucky to recover the ball and get three from Crosby. Same story as 2020. You cannot give the other team chances.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 11:32 am
Play the odds. No receiver catches 100%. Passing up 2 wide open was not playing the odds to throw to a double, arguably triple covered Adams. That was a bad call and any film review shows it. Take the free first down every time when the game is on the line.
BirdDogUni
March 27, 2022 at 12:56 pm
While I totally agree with your logic, he went to DA when the game was on the line, and if you're going to be the highest paid WR in the league, even for a day, you have to come up with that catch in crunch-time.
With DA gone, AR will have to go back to spreading the ball around. A couple good draft picks and Clements coming back may get AR finding the open man more often than just slinging it to DA 70 percent of the time?
Should be looking to shore up the OL again too, because if AR does have to find the open WR, he's going to need as much time as they can give him.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 01:31 pm
Apparently we need a secondary that can intercept for pick-sixes to get us over the hump and more than 1/game in the playoffs.
Kevin10
March 26, 2022 at 01:04 pm
There are options, for sure. However, neglecting the position in the draft for the past several years, means that Gutey can’t miss on whatever route he decides to go. It’s true that as long as you have Rodgers, you should be OK, but the goal should have been to be better than OK.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 26, 2022 at 03:04 pm
#22 Zion Johnson IOL
#28 David Ojabo EDGE
#53 David Bell WR
#59 Tyler Smith IOL
#92 Justyn Ross WR
#132 Cordell Volson OT
#140 Brandon Smith LB
Coldworld
March 26, 2022 at 06:33 pm
Bell is interesting. Great hands but slow and physical. Wouldn’t he be essentially a second Lazard?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 27, 2022 at 07:39 am
40 times arent everything. Hes a really smooth player with incredible route running. He's the closest thing to a Davante Adams that this draft has to offer. Should be able to step in and contribute in a big way immediately.
Coldworld
March 27, 2022 at 11:34 am
I will look at him some more, but Adams had elite foot speed I haven't yet seen
Minniman
March 26, 2022 at 03:23 pm
I’m confident that the Packers will load up on WR’s in this draft and that Gute and MLF are on the appropriate page to make them productive contributors - whether one (or more) ascend to be a legit WR1-type in the next 2-4 years is the ‘beautiful mystery’ that no-one can answer.
Given that Gute picked up Campbell and Douglas (essentially) from the proverbial ‘dumpster’ last year, I’m seeing that functionally he has a fair idea what each of his position groups needs (and is missing).
With starting OL, QB, RB and TE positions being either above-average or high standard - and the RB’s being legit pass catching types - there’s a LOT for the Packers to work with.
Dusty’s fantastic Passing Chronicles articles have also been a great resource to better understand what week-on-week the Packers do in their passing game - and here, also what attributes from the prospect WR’s will be most productive in the MLF system.
With MLF’s proclivity for mesh, crossing and motion routes, speed and route tree proficiency seem like more highly prized attributes.
With no deep threats on the roster, it’s a pretty sure bet that the Packers take at least 1 WR with sub 4.4 speed - probably 2 for coverage.
greengold
March 27, 2022 at 02:24 pm
Minniman, this is a great share. I think you’re on the mark with where the Packers currently stand.
Myself, agreeing with the need for speed, I’d prefer we spend 3 of our first 4 picks at WR, all 3 in the 4.30ish range. The position and the scheme would benefit greatly. Note, I want them to all be competent, tough and competitive WRs.
Point being, team speed at WR has been non-existent for years outside of the marginal pass catcher MVS. Matt LaFleur’s scheme is speed dependent.
Give the Offense what it desperately needs. Take that 4th of our first 4 and nab the bitchinest Camaro TE on the block.
Done.
DAY 3: Add EDGE from deepest pool in years. Same for OT. Splash an ILB, a S, an IDL and another WR for depth/Jet/KR backup in, and we should be in a very good place.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 26, 2022 at 05:53 pm
The interesting part is the theory that college WRs are more polished and are better able to contribute as rookies. I suppose there is some evidence from last year's draft.
Chase, Waddle, over 1,000. (5th and 6th overall)
Smith (10th overall), St. Brown (112th - 4th round) over 900
539 to 911: nobody. Zip. Nada.
538 Bateman (27th - first round)
512: Elijah Moore (34th - high 2nd round)
446: Nico Collins (89th - only 3rd rounder to do squat).
435: Rondale Moore (49th - 2nd round)
420: Kadarius Toney (20th - first round)
10 taken in rounds one and two. 5 more in the third. 20 more in rounds 4 to 7. 35 WRs drafted altogether, with 4 of them having the production GB is looking for. Not liking these odds.
St. Brown was in the 4th, with 133 yards being the next highest in Rds 4-7. Josh Palmer had 353 yards (drafted in the third round). Not sure where to put my cutoff, but if the need is for a #1 WR, it is over 512 yards.
Toney played just 10 games. Eskridge (2nd round) played 10 and tutu atwell played 8 but had zero yards and just 10 offensive snaps, got hurt at 155 pounds in week 8 while returning a punt and underwent surgery on his shoulder.
Not liking these odds.
greengold
March 26, 2022 at 07:51 pm
Subpar teams & QBs have to factor in. Odds change when those factors is added to the equation.
PhantomII
March 26, 2022 at 08:40 pm
Good points. ML will definitely need to use the WR's to their strengths the rookie year for most positive effect.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 27, 2022 at 02:02 am
True and fair. I thought also that a couple WRs were drafted by teams with an established pair of pretty decent WRs in front of the rookie, particularly in the 2020 class. [I looked at 2020 as well, but I ran out of gas and decided not to list them and their stats/draft slots.]
Many suggest that it took Jody Nelson three years but I've always thought that having Driver, Jennings and James Jones already on the team was a big factor in his modest numbers in 2008 and 2009.
greengold
March 27, 2022 at 06:07 am
Man, I’m so glad you brought this up. Just for kicks sometime, check out Jordy’s and Randall Cobb’s Catch% stats.
Those two were money there straight out of the gate… usually that is a stat that builds to a respectable/good figure in the high 50s - low 60s. The best get into the 70s, and some of the very best don’t, like Jerry Rice. Amazing how special Jordy and Cobb were in this regard.
Nonetheless, your point and Coldworld’s are definitely well taken. Generally, 1000 yd rookie WRs are outliers, where most others begin with modest numbers in that 500 yd range.
There’s only been -11- 1,000 yd rookie WRs in the last 11 years:
2021 Jaylen Waddle
2021 Ja’Marr Chase
2020 Justin Jefferson
2019 AJ Brown
2016 Michael Thomas
2015 Amari Cooper
2014 Kelvin Benjamin
2014 OBJ
2014 Mike Evans
2013 Keenan Allen
2011 AC Green
Thegreatreynoldo
March 27, 2022 at 07:13 pm
Years ago I looked at the battle between Nelson and James Jones to be the 3rd WR on the field in 2009. Nelson got much better from 2008 to 2009, but Jones also elevated his game. I looked at DVOA, DYAR, Yards per rec/target, catch percentage. I don't think I had access to EPA/play for those guys. I think Nelson would have been WR 2 for any number of teams, and WR #3 for almost all teams except those that had a Driver, Jennings and a Jones ahead of him.
I tried to squash the notion that it took 3 years for Jordy to develop. Yes, Nelson got better in 2009 and again in 2010, but he'd have put up numbers in his second season for almost any other NFL team.
One thing: sometimes being the most talented WR on a team leads to big stats even if the player is not that talented. So being on a poor team can work either way: it can hinder stats (particularly if the QB is no good) or help those stats. James Jones had 890 yards in 2015, but he was washed up. He was out of football. Cobb was hurt, Adams was hurt, both were dropping passes like crazy, Nelson was out for the year, so James Jones had his best statistical season, as did Richard Rodgers with 510 yards. Neither Jones nor RichRod were actually good receivers in 2015.
Example: Sterling Sharpe gets 30% to 32% of all targets for multiple years. Robert Brooks had 58 recs on 92 targets (63% catch rate) and 648 yards in 1994 with Sharpe getting most of the attention. 1995 Brooks gets 29% of all targets, catches 102 passes of a whopping 167 targets (61%) when Sharpe is gone in 1995. Brooks was a nice WR until he got hurt, but he did not suddenly become Sharpe level. He was the best WR on a team with an Elite QB in Favre, so that WR is going to have stats, and good ones.
PhantomII
March 27, 2022 at 11:28 am
If you look at the draft Jordy was picked in the 2nd round, his career outshone all rounds picks that year. He was the 1st round pick in the 2nd round.
BirdDogUni
March 27, 2022 at 02:19 pm
Which is also an option for Gutey this year. If he targets the right guys, two picks in the second round might be the way to go. It all depends on Gutey's overall objectives.
If a wicked OT is available at #22 I think it might be worth a look. Or an Edge player/IDL. I know everyone is hyper-focused on the WR position, but tbh, Gutey could easily hold to the organizations aversion to drafting WRs in the 1st round. Especially with so many coming off injuries.
Gutey waiting until the 2nd round for a WR would not surprise me. Gutey trading down would not surprise me. Trading up would surprise me, because tbh, I don't think there is anyone I would trade up and waste draft capital on this year.
Gutey has his job. Use 11 draft picks to the best of his ability. Our job is to love it or hate it. Hoping we all love it this year, but I know that is a %'in pipe dream. Lol
greengold
March 27, 2022 at 02:37 pm
Brother from another mother stuff right there.
I know what you’re saying. I do think at the very least, 1 WR will be taken R1. The need is that great to add the best he can at a position where the cupboards are essentially bare, especially in terms of speed.
GBs has ZERO speed at WR.
There are going to be many teams jumping in ahead of us again to do same, knowing exactly what we are in need of….
Remember? 2020 draft? Teams were lining up or trading up in front of us every pick to take the WRs…
Think of it that way, and, know OT and EDGE are even more loaded than WR with talent.
Take care of the position for once. Spend 3 of our first 4 picks at WR, then fill your other needs.
JDH1313
March 27, 2022 at 04:04 pm
I believe we take the BPA on the defense and #28 they either get Olave if he's there or Dotson who I believe will be and Gutey has shown interest in him as well, but I don't believe we take 2 receivers in the first round.
gsd3
March 28, 2022 at 04:29 am
I'm in the 'draft the best player available" camp with one exception. When there is a glaring need it must be addressed. Personally, I like Burks at 22 and Dotson at 28. People should not be afraid of Burk's 4.55 40. DA ran a 4.56 coming out, and Burks is a much bigger guy.
If Dotson is gone at 28, I would look at Tolbert in the 2nd. Velous Jones later in the draft as a 5th or 6th wideout but more as a return specialist.
Would also look at offering a 3rd for Cooks or a 4th for Parker.