Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - What's Missing?

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

There was no real Packers news this week, other than the departure of Jerry Gray, something I wrote about the last two weeks. I still feel he had an entirely different idea of how to scheme his guys than Joe Barry did and was embarrassed by all the soft zone he was forced to play. Given the opportunity, he did a quick "Adios!"

Anyway, what I'm going to do this week is take a look at the teams that made it to the Championship games and examine what stood out to me that those teams have or do that the Packers don't. So here goes:

DBs that love to tackle and are damn good at it.  DBs on these seem to come out of nowhere to make tackles and stop ball carriers in their tracks. There's no one in the Packers' secondary striking fear in opposing ball carriers, whether they be running backs or receivers. 

A Coach/QB combo that doesn't waste timeouts. The Packers are in the top three of most "wasted timeouts" over the last several years according to NFL Data Analyst Tom Bliss. The Eagles and the Chiefs had among the fewest.

An Impact Tight End. - Sure, Travis Kelce and George Kittle are future Hall of Famers, but should it be that hard to find a tight end the likes of Dallas Goedert (55 rec, 722 yds, 3TD) or Hayden Hurst (52 rec, 414 yds, 2TD)? Would you be happy with that level of production from a Packers tight end? I sure would. It would help this offense immensely. 

A quarterback that will use the tight end. - I'm not talking about scheming plays for the tight end, I'm referring to looking for easy completions to the tight end short/middle when the wide receivers are blanketed.

Respected Defensive Coordinators - One already has a new head coaching job, and the other three are interviewing for head coaching jobs. No one is calling Joe Barry.

Finally, a young, mobile quarterback. Rodgers, of course, used to be mobile (and young), but those days are gone. Three straight disappointing January offensive performances with Rodgers at the helm are enough for me. I'm ready for Green Bay to move on, even if it doesn't work out with Jordan Love (but I think it will).

 

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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

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22 points
 

Comments (300)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Savage57's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:07 am

It was a dumb comment.

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pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:53 am

Shoot Savage, it would have fit right in then. 😁

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TomFisher's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:22 am

We have a tight end almost exactly like Hurst. Big Bob Tonyan ended the season with 53 catches for 470 yards and 2 touchdowns.

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JerseyAl's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:43 am

So why doesn't it seem like that? Tonyan 15 receptions over the Packers last 8 games. Hurst 27 receptions over his last 7 games. Maybe it's recency bias or a perception thing, or goes to my other point of the QB actually throwing him the ball when open instead of looking for a bigger play?

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TomFisher's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:04 am

I completely agree with the last part. I can't believe tight end isn't supposed to be a much larger part of the offense. I supposed we would have to run LaFlower's offense though, not the McCarthy dredge

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Bitternotsour's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:49 pm

this is LaFleurs offense. You can only use the evidence of your eyes. This is it, this is what it has been for 4 years. This is the offense. McCarthy's offense got to the playoffs. It even won a game.

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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

February 02, 2023 at 10:50 am

Thats not true. The offense in 2019 and 2020 looked like a Shanahan offense, which is what Lafleur knows. Then Rodgers held out and the offense has been getting further and further away from Lafleur's philosophy ever since.

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Oppy's picture

February 02, 2023 at 08:19 pm

I don't agree with this at all.

2021 was the first time I thought we really saw a measurable amount of a Shanahan-esque offense.

2019 and 2020 looked more like MM's vertical offense, and Rodgers abstained from motion much of the time, as well

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T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:24 am

Al, I can't believe you only had problems with 3 Januarys. You're more forgiving than I.

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JerseyAl's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:50 am

I know it's been four straight, but I was being specific to the offensive failures in the last three.

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T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:08 pm

Thanks. Still, I think the root problem started at the very beginning. These problems always show up in the playoffs.

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T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:08 pm

Duplicate

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BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:54 am

I think we see how they scheme Kittle and Kelce open and know our coaching staff isn't putting in the work to scheme our TE open on a regular basis at all. Maybe 4 or 5 times a season. (Big Dog wide open and AR12s broken thumb showing up at the worst time comes to mind.)

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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:57 am

Remember also that Cinci had injury issues with their uber talented WR corps over the course of the season. Hurst really wasn't a big part of that offense.

That said, YPC for the TE position as a whole, TDs, and receptions have been down the last couple years. There are only a couple TEs in the league that are featured guys (Mark Andrews, Travis Kelce, maybe Kittle). There are a few TEs who are a dart throw on whether they'll go off any given week. I would argue that the large number of WR drafted (and drafted early) in recent years and expanded roles for RB on many teams in the passing game has caused that.

A game-changer as a pass catcher, regardless of position, is an important guy to have. Two game changers on offense either as catchers or runners (and an OL that can block) make a big difference--hence the goal of "triplets". Packers need to look at their guys and ask themselves how confident they are that they've got those guys on the roster, and--if not--what position and which player makes the most sense this offseason.

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T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:52 am

Are you saying that the more things an opposing D has to honor, the more difficult it is for them to be successful at defending?

You'd think the coaches would have thought of that.

dobber, do you think MLF is just trying too hard to make things look complicated that he forgets about or goes away from the basics that actually work? Sure seems that way to me. I can't just flap this thought away,

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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:11 am

The problem is theyre a team trying to run 2 offenses. That means each offense gets half the reps it needs to be sharp. And with Lafleur's philosophy, in order for it to function properly, there has to be commitment to it. Not only commitment on the practice field (since it is insanely complex with tons of nuance) but you also have to commit to it in games. You cant just run 1 or 2 plays from here and there surrounded by Rodgers' spread offense. Since its predicated on trying to confuse teams with motions and misdirections and all the moving parts mixed in with balance between run/playaction the entire offense is a big series of plays that all feed off of each other. Like the jet motion for instance. One play could be a jet motion running back run, next play could be a jet motion playaction pass, next play could be jet sweep, play after that could be jet motion playaction tight end screen, etc, etc. Each play feeds into the next. They use these plays in conjunction to make defeders react to the plays theyve already seen thus putting the packers one step ahead every play. When you never run these plays in series they lose their effectiveness. Dedication to this offense is the biggest reason the Packers had one of the best offenses ive ever seen in 2020. It was an absolute machine and the 1 person who benefitted the absolute most from it was Aaron Rodgers because he was able to feast on easy wide open looks all season long thanks to all the creativity. Its also why Bob Tonyan had 10 tds that year. But for reasons I cant explain, Rodgers decided to hold out the next year and undoubtedly stood on the table for more control of the offense because that is exactly the moment when the shift away from that wonderfully powerful offense began. Its a big reason why I hold so much anger towards Rodgers. He took a really really good thing and broke it cuz his charmin soft ego couldnt handle not being in control. Its why ive said for the last 2 years that he is the biggest problem with this team and I havent been proven wrong yet.

Edit: Sorry for the effort post but it needed to be said.

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T7Steve's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:25 am

That was the end of the "gold zone". One of the worst at scoring TDs in the "anything you want to call it zone" this year.

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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:36 am

Yeah because they used to run it in the gold zone. Between 2019 and 2020, Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams had a combined 28 rushing touchdowns, most of which came in the redzone. You know how many Jones had the last 2 years? 6. And Dillon has 12. Thats 10 less rushing touchdowns which is a substantial difference and lost them games this year. At least in 2021 Rodgers was able to mask it by throwing a lot of red zone tds to Adams. But without Adams, Rodgers sucks in the redzone and refuses to hand it off on the rpo's.

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T7Steve's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:49 pm

It's also because we don't have a vaunted O-line that can push the middle into the endzone. They seem, at best, to only stay in one place. At worst they were pushed into the backfield. If they could all work together in practice for a while, I think they can improve. They could also get some big bodies in there Like Caleb Jones. How many D tackles could stop him and Nijman pushing together? Every other team seems to use the jumbo package. The Packers put in TE/Lewis and sometimes a TE/HB, but usually set Dillon up by his self in the shotgun.

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greengold's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:54 am

Anchorman head nod.

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ImaPayne's picture

February 02, 2023 at 01:13 pm

I see this offense as one of the least complicated in football. We never send two tight ends into the middle and three recievers downfield, and a rb into the flat making in hard to cover.
What I described is what the Vikes do when they need a first down. Complicated as hell to stop and all you need is to get past the yardage post. Rinse and repeat later and for certain inside the 20.
Our offense is boring as hell. Three receivers down field and Rodgers trying to find one of them open.

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Packers2020's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:55 am

Kelce and Kittle are more like WR's. They are big and fast. They split out wide all the time.

Just saying.....

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greengold's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:57 am

Gotta use them, number 1...

Said TEs must be available, would be number 2.

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BirdDogUni's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:28 pm

Like Allen Lazard?

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RCPackerFan's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:27 am

Part of this is the fact that they haven't had any other TE's that really stepped up either.

Davis didn't have a catch a pass after week 5.
Deguara had 2 receptions after week 9.
Lewis had 6 receptions total.

Sure we can blame the QB for everything, but I think we need to look harder at why the TE's weren't more involved. Part of it is the talent level. Deguara turned out to be a pretty good HB. But Lewis at this point is an extra OL. And Davis is essentially a special teams player. He had 1 reception for 23 yards and only had 3 more yards on 3 other receptions.
Also Tonyan didn't return to pre acl form.

The position needs more talent brought in. They need someone that can stretch defenses, and make people miss after the catch. This year is a great year for TE's in the draft. The Packers have to come away with a TE in this draft.

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Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:31 pm

Part of it is the lousy offensive design. They’ve got to be out there and not purely blocking. Both Deguara and Tonyan had decent catch to target rates. Sometimes it isn’t the players but how they are used. In an offense screaming for a little imagination, we had none. The problem wasn’t purely talent or Rodgers, it was the guy calling plays and sending out personnel.

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Leatherhead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:24 am

53 catches is one of the more productive seasons for a TE in Packer history.

There's only one ball. 65 plays in a game or so. About 35-40 involve your RB, so that leave 25-30 plays for everybody else. We want to go to Watson, and establish him. We want to throw to the other WRs enough so that they have to be covered. What's left is about 5-10 targets for the TEs. If you've got a good one, it's 10, and if you've got what we've got, it's 5.

I had not realized Tonyan caught 50+ balls this year. That's a quiet 50.

10 points
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Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:03 am

I'm interested in what other fans think, as it seems to me Tonyan is likely to be better next season because of being further removed from his surgery.
Actually, it seemed to me that Tonyan was looking pretty strong at the end of this past season.
***
Even if Tonyan comes back at or near his highest form, it's a question as to whether we try to get an even better tight end through the draft.
I suppose even signing a free agent is possible, especially if Rodgers is traded to free up more salary cap.
***
I'm still wondering if Lazard could be a good tight end, especially on third downs.
Even if he stays at about the same weight, Lazard may be able to be a better-than-average blocker as a tight end, plus an exceptional pass catcher at that position.
I've seen George Kittle listed at about the same weight as Lazard, some 225 pounds; but even if Kittle is more like 250, that wouldn't rule out Lazard as a tight end.
Every innovation has to start with someone. Perhaps Lazard could be a pioneer as a lighter tight end who will block more than adequately and be almost unstoppable as a pass catcher.
Sometimes there is a thin line between a crazy idea and a bold idea.
***
As I showed in another post today in Jersey Al's thread of comments, it appears players may indeed read CHTV -- and I wouldn't be surprised if coaches and executives do, as well.
If I was a player or coach or executive, I wouldn't base my decisions mainly on the fans, but I wouldn't ignore them, either.
It's good to get viewpoints from outside of the bubble, and even from non-experts who nonetheless are educated on a subject and display good old-fashioned common sense.
We the fans would do well to be humble in what we do not know, but also to have a healthy measure of confidence that we do indeed have a contribution to make to the well-being of the Packers.

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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:12 am

"I'm interested in what other fans think, as it seems to me Tonyan is likely to be better next season because of being further removed from his surgery."

A year removed from surgery...a year closer to 30. He wasn't looking explosive in 2021 pre-injury. I think he can still be a productive guy, but he needs to be used correctly...and in 2022 he was used like Richard Rodgers--who, remember, caught almost 60 passes and 8 TDs in his best season--but ran an awful lot of routes within 5 yd of the LOS. Can you get THAT from a cheaper journeyman TE or a rookie? Probably.

"I'm still wondering if Lazard could be a good tight end, especially on third downs."

If he doesn't play with his hand on the ground--and he won't--he's a WR not a TE, so he's already doing the things most people are thinking about when they talk about making him a TE. Besides, he's not under contract, and it adds years to his career to play WR rather than taking the beating of chipping DEs and taking on bigger LBs in the run game on a regular basis. If the Packers said, "we'll sign you, but we want you to add weight and play TE," he should run and get his money on the market.

"it appears players may indeed read CHTV -- and I wouldn't be surprised if coaches and executives do, as well."

The Packers have people in media relations who are monitoring all of these sites and social media. I'm sure they're giving regular reports to someone who eventually feeds some kind of info to management.

I don't want management to have rabbit ears...most of us don't know our ass from a hole in the ground. I want them to have a cohesive plan and do their damnedest to make it work.

5 points
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Since'61's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:27 am

Dobber a cookie for your final paragraph. Speaking for myself only, I know that it accurately and succinctly covers how I feel. Unfortunately for the Packers I think that the name Murphy and cohesive plan have never been used in the same sentence when it comes to the football team in Green Bay. Murphy''s plan is focused on his legacy and his upcoming retirement in 2 years.

Great job! Thanks, Since '61

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greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:54 am

I wish, for once in his life, in our quest for additional Packers Super Bowl Championships, Mark Murphy would have a cohesive plan to stay the fuck out of it and leave it all up to our GM, Brian Gutekunst.

There you go, Bubs!

6 points
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Since'61's picture

February 01, 2023 at 02:02 pm

Can't say it better than that gg! Thanks, Since '61

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Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:01 am

dobber, thanks much for the reply.
***
I had written that it's good for us fans to be humble in what we don't know, but that we have something to offer in terms of analyzing the Packers that would be good for management to listen to.
You seem to hold us fans in a much lower place of competence to speak about the Packers -- which is a legit opinion, and it's okay to disagree.
***
The point about Tonyan approaching 30 has me thinking that he could be a good player for us for the next two seasons while we prepare a younger guy for the job.
Even at that point, perhaps Tonyan could be a complementary tight end to keep, if at the right price.
If Tonyan at his best is only okay as a blocker, and has never been elite as a pass catcher, then maybe it's time to move on, as much as I hate to say it.
I like to keep our own players on the Packers as long as possible as a matter of personal preference -- plus team continuity and player morale (that they are valued as persons) -- but eventually age and salary make parting necessary.
***
Your points are interesting about Lazard, and it's interesting to discuss how his blocking duties would and wouldn't change if he moved from being a wide receiver to a tight end.
I'm wondering if he would trade more seasons of being a WR3, perhaps WR2, in return for less seasons but as a trailblazing TE1.
Even if it's an impractical idea in this case, I like to talk about new ideas with good fans as possible innovations that could make a significant difference for the better.
I realize we fans are indeed limited, but I think we have a lot more to offer than you do.
Sometimes the experts lose sight of the big picture.

-1 points
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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:43 am

In the end, Swisch, maybe I don't think much of some of us, but I think that's true of most posters--we have colleagues we read and respect, and others we don't. Most of us have limited experience and knowledge of the ins-and-outs of on-field football. Virtually none of us has any reasonable notion of how to build a roster, balance playing for today with playing 3-4 years from now, handling contracts, etc. etc. The majority of us are spitballing, and the degree to which we spitball varies from fan to fan. So---yeah, many of us are reactionary knuckleheads. Just as you note, though, there's plenty of good insight here, too. If not, most of us wouldn't keep coming back--because what's being offered is the exchange between us, not much of note to analysts or team execs. I try to post with a lot of "I think..." statements, recognizing my own perspective and reflection limits my posting. I chose "ass from a hole in the ground" because it was one of my Dad's colorful statements. There was certainly no intent to slight you in my comments.

Your points on Tonyan and Lazard are both well taken. I think Tonyan's return on what it will likely take to keep him is at best a push. I bet they try to resign him, though, because it mitigates a big hole at the TE position and leaves them less desperate come draft time or facing the open FA market. It was well-noted the other day, though (and not by me), that there are always younger guys and vets trying to make good on low-money, one-year deals. The Packers found a good year on Campbell in 2021 on that premise, but it's hard to guess which of those guys pan out (Watkins? Um, nope). Maybe they can hit on a TE that gives them better blocking and similar production.

Lazard does hit LBs from time to time, now, but putting his hand on the ground will line him up v. DEs and big OLBs. Even if he puts 10 lbs on, he's used to hitting mostly DBs who he outweighs by 20 lbs. He'd have to relearn how to play with his hand on the ground, how to release, combo blocking with a tackle. I just don't know if he'd want to move into the trenches at this stage in his career...and he'd have to prove he could do it before earning the payday for it...at 28-29 years old.

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Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:14 am

There is a thing called leverage. TEs that can block ILBs and linemen are either bulkier and shorter or man mountains like Lewis (now increasingly rare). Lazard is a big man in general terms, but he’s not Lewis at all and his height means that becomes a disadvantage as a true blocker. Technique and willingness can help, but that’s asking it to overcome a lot of physics. There’s a big difference between what Lewis does and what Lazard does very well. At his height, 10 pounds isn’t going to bridge that gap.

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pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:56 am

"most of us don't know our ass from a hole in the ground"

Is this a trick question :)

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Rarescope's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:49 pm

It's not a question. It's a beautiful mystery :D

2 points
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pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:54 pm

Rare, you _______ ! 🙃

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LLCHESTY's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:04 pm

I don't understand the fascination with wanting to call Lazard a TE. He's not playing inline and played less than 25% of his snaps outside so it's just semantics at this point.

Here's a good breakdown of where he played last year.

https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/allen-lazard-12628

3 points
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dobber's picture

February 02, 2023 at 07:32 am

DATA!!!!

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jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:55 am

He had half of his total receptions the first six games. The next 11 games he either disappeared or wasn't part of the Game Plan.

4 points
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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:46 am

I think he had 8 catches v. NE. That's about 15% of his catches for the season.

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JerseyAl's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:27 am

If you're referring to Tonyan, he had 10 catches vs. the Jets.

4 points
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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:25 pm

Thanks, Al!

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greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:52 am

I love it. This is the stuff that keeps me coming back. Great grabs, both jannes & dobs. Much appreciated, and it helps explain the quietest 50 ever.

1 points
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Rarescope's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:50 pm

"He had half of his total receptions the first six games. The next 11 games he either disappeared or wasn't part of the Game Plan."

I wonder how much of that had to do with:

a. Not being fully recovered from ACL in general
b. Emergence of C. Watson specifically

0 points
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LambeauPlain's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:14 am

Tonyan on the field to block is a waste of space. Most defenses know this too and use Tonyan as a key a pass play is the first option at the snap.

8 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:26 am

Another WR conversion Project. Get Players trained in their positions in college. The Tony Gonzalez types only come along every few decades.

2 points
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dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:59 am

I'd argue that as a UDFA guy who has been pretty productive, he is/was a win.

3 points
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PeteK's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:04 pm

Absolutely, I'll be sad to see him go, but might be too expensive for a tweener.

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jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:01 pm

He had a pro bowl year in his third season, nothing much before while he Learned the TE spot. Last year the blown ACL, but he wasn't targeted much before his injury. This season started fine, then he either disappeared or they didn't scheme him. A fair value Contract with Incentive clauses may be his ticket, but I like the crew of TEs coming out this draft. If Rodgers is moved, then he becomes a chip.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:05 pm

Mike Wahle would disagree with you.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

February 02, 2023 at 03:33 am

Other than Hurst being much better than Tonyan, I agree.

Hurst played at 265 pounds this year. Their respective pass receiving statistics are very similar, I agree. The only major difference is Hurst breaks a tackles every ten receptions and Tonyan breaks a tackle every 26.5 receptions.

Hurst got a mildly above average PFF grade of 65.
Tonyan got a mildly below average grade of 57.7.

I don't think Hurst is a good blocking TE, but I think Tonyan is pretty bad at it. Tonyan was by far the worst pass blocking TE in the NFL in 2021, and was mildly below average as a run blocker that year. Andy Herman says that Tonyan's blocking improved a bit in 2022. I don't subscribe to PFF so I don't know how PFF graded him or how much better his blocking got.

No one thinks Tonyan is going to command a big contract for 2023, and that is for a reason.

https://i.redd.it/q5w7qmu6q7v71.jpg

3 points
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greengold's picture

February 02, 2023 at 08:00 am

Phenomenal assessment, per norm, TGR. Thanks for sharing that.

There are those moments when we have little time to search out such stats, or more often don’t even think to do so, yet have a sense something’s off with a player’s performance.

Such a great place here, where so many help to contribute from their own perspectives. Way to nail it.

1 points
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BirdDogUni's picture

February 02, 2023 at 09:25 am

Well said James!

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bjkdad44's picture

February 03, 2023 at 07:07 am

I like the idea of moving Allen Lazard … If… they can sin him… please!

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bjkdad44's picture

February 03, 2023 at 06:56 am

I like big Bob!!!

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NickPerry's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:28 am

I look forward to this piece every week from Al because he see's things very much like I do. Some of these things Al mentioned this morning could be eliminated immediately if Rodgers was traded IMO.

A DB who tackles... Alexander used to tackle until he hurt his shoulder. I haven't started my draft or FA crushes yet, but it WOULD be awesome to have a DB who not only can tackle, but likes to make a CLEAN solid hit. You know, the ones that stop em dead in their tracks!

Wasted TO... Look to my first sentence for this resolution. Trade Rodgers and I think MOST of the problem is erased.

A TE... I'm combining Both of Al's TE points. I'd LOVE Hayden Hurst who is a FA. I'd also like one of the TEs in this draft but that's for a different day. The thing about USING a TE is a simpler fix. Since Rodgers friggen REFUSES to use the middle of the field, TRADE Rodgers and watch Love light up the middle and IMO he would. Trust and believe MLF has plenty of play designs for a TE to be schemed WIDE OPEN plus Love would USE the middle of the field.

Respected DC... Unfortunately this one is on hold at least another year.

13 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:31 am

Draft TEs have more upside and are cheaper than free agents. Not to mention this class is the best in the last 15+ years of TEs. Take one in round 1 or 2, and pass of Hurst.

7 points
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Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:13 am

Any player coming off an ACL is likely to be sub par athletically for the first few months back. That’s been the typical scenario since the medical advances that made ACL tears essentially recoverable. The critical question is how complete is the full rebound? With Tonyan, the additional source of doubt is that he had it after a disappointing spell in the year following his break out year.

Watching him late on, I think I saw signs of an increasingly effect player. I think Tonyan could have a good year next year. However, I don’t think last year’s offense gets him the chances we need. We use Lazard so extensively that I think it limits opportunities for an offensive TE. It also tends to mean our core approach has only 2 pure receivers running routes for a lot. That’s not going to stress teams and didn’t. A true difference making season needs a TE to do more of what Lazard does and a receiver to be used more offensively in the passing game.

Tonyan is a decent blocker for essentially a move type, but he’s not a true general purpose TE. That’s what we need. Tonyan will also be 29 next season. He’s at the point where he’s going to want to be paid. At this point, his injury calls that into question. Will he sign a prove it deal in a year that would take him to 30? If he would, that would be a perfect bridge. We could structure it with incentives to defer cap and reward actual performance. However, I would still look to acquire a TE in the draft this year. If Tonyan has a great year, we can’t probably afford him. If he doesn’t then we shouldn’t want to. Use the year to develop behind him. TEs usually take time to adjust to the NFL. That’s the best scenario that I see.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:27 am

He had his Best production during the course of the first six weeks.

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:08 am

Apart from LA and Dallas later on, he was pretty consistent stat wise, except for the Jets game, which was almost double his next best in the penultimate game versus the Vikings but those yards were in only 3 passes. That was the only game where his yards per catch stood out.

Against the Jets a lack of options probably forced his targets and he notched up 90 yards on 10 catches. He had no more than 3 catches in any other game after Buffalo at the end of October.

Why? I wish I knew. But the stats to me speak more to targets than ability. Certainly he looked more agile to me later, certainly against the Vikings. Maybe he had a knock mid season, but I don’t see a production decline, but rather an opportunity one. That raises more questions than it answers about him and his usage given the level of offensive impotence often visible. It wasn’t like another TE really took his place or that we had healthy receivers.

1 points
1
0
mrtundra's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:38 am

Yes, I agree that draftees are cheaper then, and have more upside, than FAs. Since it is the post season, for Packers' fans, and mock season is beginning to heat up, I did a mock draft on FanSpeak the other day, in which I was able to get Michael Mayer, TE, from Notre Dame, in Round 1 and then in round 4, I was able to pick up Darnell Washington, TE from Georgia, as well, Might as well double up on a position of perceived need, as Tonyan is a FA, and Lewis may be done, in GB. These top two rookie TEs could easily open up the middle of the field for Love or Rodgers. Also, in that draft, I was able to draft Jammie Robinson, S, out of Florida State and CB Brian Branch, of Alabama. Tell me those DBs don't know how to hit. To bolster our O Line, I picked up Broderick Jones, OT from Georgia, in the 2nd round. GO PACK, GO!!!

5 points
5
0
croatpackfan's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:00 am

I upvoted you despite this part of sentence: "These top two rookie TEs could easily open up the middle of the field for Love or Rodgers."

Nobody would or will open middle field for ACR. NOBODY. And when you look at NFCCGs this weekend just count how many passes was in the middle of the field, even when it was populated by defenders. KC, CIN, SF and Philly, all of them using middle field as important part of the passing game, some more and some less, but all of them.

6 points
8
2
Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:11 am

Gotta keep that pipeline flowing from the Georgia Bulldogs to the Green Bay Packers.
Living in Georgia the past four football seasons, it can be hard at first glance to tell the difference between the "G" for each team -- although it's safe to say most of them are for the Bulldogs.
Anyway, this state college seems a good source for top players in the pros.

3 points
3
0
wildbill's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:08 am

Think I read that the Packers gave Georgia the right to use the “G” years ago, but it was on the internet so who knows

4 points
4
0
PeteK's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:15 pm

Add a high pick DE/DT to the list as I am getting very tired of our D being trampled (25th against the run in NFL).

0 points
1
1
CheesedDeadHead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:00 pm

Well first we need a DC who thinks 2 DL formations is the dumbest thing on the planet outside of the final 2 minutes with a prevent prevent defense, not one that uses it way too frequently throughout the game with little or no success.

1 points
2
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:10 pm

They could have Reggie and Co. and Barry would Phuc it up....

0 points
2
2
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:59 am

"The true test of a man's intelligence is the degree to which he agrees with you..." ; )

6 points
6
0
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:05 am

The true test of yours is whether that makes you question his.

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 04:04 pm

Also a rec.

1 points
1
0
bjkdad44's picture

February 03, 2023 at 07:12 am

Excellent comments!!

0 points
0
0
Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:29 am

This weekly offering of Jersey Al seems a good place to share an article from elsewhere that is evidence that Packers players -- or at least Aaron Jones -- may indeed read CHTV.
-https://wisportsheroics.com/aaron-jones-fires-back-at-popular-packers-so...

3 points
5
2
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:44 am

Interesting article, especially because Aaron Jones specifically mentions this site - great work, Al and your co-editors!

I would simply love it if a member of Gutekunst's staff would publish a (certainly anonymous) op-ed as to whether we're all full of shit here about the machinations of the FO.

I find it ludicrous that the author of the linked page thinks that the Packers' Super Bowl window is still open. He also thinks it's okay for the Packers to take "a little bit of cap hit" with Jones, even if Rodgers remains with the team. Seems to not be a reality-based site.

9 points
9
0
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:23 am

Jones is a unique talent and poses a unique conundrum because of the cap mess we are in and questions about the future at QB. There’s no way that I would let Jones go in any more normal circumstances. On the other hand, I don’t see a Rodgers led roster being good enough to capitalize on him and I don’t see Love (or the next one) peaking while Jones is still at his peak. In the mean time, we have so heavily spent future cap that harm will flow from pushing his deal forward and for a position where young, cheap talent is the norm and realistic.

A tough decision clouded by the bed that we’ve made. Just more proof that everything has consequences. That we even have to consider this about our best offensive player is a depressing reminder of how we have tied ourselves in knots.

3 points
6
3
Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:38 am

If it's Love at QB, I'd really like to have Jones around to ease and enhance his transition. I think we could make the playoffs next season at 9-8 or better.
I don't know what to do with the Packers if we keep Rodgers at QB. Maybe he can become the holder.

1 points
2
1
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:24 am

I would like Jones around period, but his cost is such that, given our situation, I have to admit to myself that Love may benefit more from not doing so and going with Goodson or a draft pick in the medium term.

We have to look to being able to compete a year or two into the Love era, and that takes cap and RB is a position that can be productive early, cheaply and favors youth. We’ve dug a hole. What gets us a better chance of getting out of it? Try as I might I think Jones may just make it less deep but us less able to escape it. For once I really am on the fence on him and not because of his merits.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:41 am

Figure, if we somehow ditch AR's cap hit, Aaron Jones' becomes more palatable. I think Switch makes a great point in keeping Jones and using him, for once, with more regular attempts (same with Dillon), would go a long way towards Jordan Love's success.

That's what killed me, and us, in JL's first start v. KC. Matt LaFleur shit the bed, calling the game as if AR was under C. It was one of Matt LaFleur's top gaffes, in my eyes, as HC. Ridiculous play calls, against a formidable pass rush, abandoning the run game against one of the weakest run Ds at that time in the NFL.

Talk about hanging your rookie QB out to dry... WOW.

9 points
9
0
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:04 pm

LaFleur not having a plan ready for Love in the event of injury was mind blowing for me. Not coming up with one at all when he knew it was likely just compounded that. Who doesn’t have a plan for their backup QB by the end of camp? On a par with Bissacia having to demand contact in at least some ST practices.

Even moving Rodgers leaves us in a huge cap hole for a couple of years after what they did after last season. If Rodgers retires. Then yes, I see that changing things enough. Sadly I doubt that he does and thus we and Jones reap what Murphy and Ball sowed.

8 points
9
1
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:04 pm

Duplicate

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:39 pm

Exactly. That's why I'm more in favor of essentially "blowing it up." Send LaFleur packing, and start over. I don't have confidence in him bringing the Lombardi Trophy home. I just don't.

The lack of earnest leadership exhibited these past 4 seasons, despite his record, carries the day there.

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:37 pm

Totally concur... MaLF isn't truly a leader of men in my opinion, he's a yes man figurehead. In fact, he's probably prettier than many figureheads of pirate ships back in the day. (Not saying he isn't a man.) Better brows at the very least.

Everyone loves Aaron Jones. Some love AR12, some love the idea of Jordan Love taking over. The truth of the matter is what is best for the Packers as an organization. I don't determine that, but I do have an opinion.

I thought it was insane to give Aaron Jones the contract extension we did. I did not see that coming. Especially when he was a 5th round pick and so many here keep saying RBs are a dime a dozen. If they are, why not trade him, and reap the rewards? If they aren't, we draft another.

Our scouts are highly paid to find the players like Aaron Jones to make the Packers relevant. They did a great job finding Jones, let them earn their money and find another.

The only reason to keep Jones is if it actually makes some sort of sense financially to do so, if not, trade him and find another RB. Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid, and MaLF is finding that out...

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:14 pm

The guy doesn't know how to run a draw play. Runs a TE release play once or twice a Season...

2 points
3
1
Bitternotsour's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:58 pm

look at Jones age, those wheels are about to fall right off.

-2 points
2
4
LLCHESTY's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:08 pm

It's not age it's use, and Jones isn't close to the 1600 carry wall that RBs fall off of like Humpty Dumpty. Look up his carries compared to Ezekiel Elliott, it's a very glaring difference.

-1 points
1
2
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:56 pm

Likely any team that would trade for AJ would feel this way too. Are you for keeping him or trading him? I understand how good he is. I also understand what a great guy he is. Which means a GM with cap space and no Aaron Jones would likely give up some much needed draft capital in return for Aaron Jones. Buffalo? KC? Miami? Jags? Broncos? Hell just about any team with cap space.

I could be in the minority, but I somehow I feel the cap space and draft capital are more valuable than Aaron Jones play next year, especially if we do trade Aaron Rodgers. Which side of the coin do you favor LLC?

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 02, 2023 at 09:24 am

Jones should be on the trade list.

3 points
3
0
greengold's picture

February 02, 2023 at 09:55 am

Sell high.

For some reason, the Packers Front Office lost the liner notes from Ted Thompson's Greatest Hits Album:

Move a good/great
Playa
A year early
Not a year too late

I got sizzle
I got sizzle
I got sizzle
I got sizzle

(Guitar Solo)

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:27 pm

He's our #1 Offensive Weapon. He got more touches than any other skill position player, and produced more yards from scrimmage, by a 500 yard margin over #2, Dillon. #3 Lazard will probably be leaving in FA.

We're also talking about releasing Tonyan, who had 550 snaps and 53 receptions last year. So we'll just replace the combined output of Jones, Lazard, and Tonyan next year. No problem.

I'd keep Jones and draft a stud RB. Next year is Dillon's contract year, and it'd be nice to have another horse ready to go. I'd try to keep Tonyan, but I'd draft a TE in the second round, probably Darnell Washington. I don't think we have any chance of retaining Lazard.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

February 02, 2023 at 01:02 pm

Yes he’s our star piece, but in a pretty poor offense in a team devoid of cap present and cap future and his value only decreases I suspect. He might give us a chance to win the division, but not much more. Ultimately that’s where we differ

Winning a division with a team in congenital decline as this is, due to cap and age, is, for me, not worth the candle compared to starting to try to win more sooner. Which has greater value, looking less bad or starting to have the ability to re-ascend earlier?

You likely feel keeping Jones and shooting for the playoffs is the logical choice. I think it is under the perspective you outline. On the other hand. I think that’s neither guaranteed nor anything more than a brief flirtation if successful, and one that delays the chance for a more serious run.

That’s why I even contemplate trading Jones. That Murphy put us in such position well and truly sets me off. Jones should have been the spearhead for Love in his second season starting and a cap easing in 2024. By then Love would be going into his third year as a starter and Jones would go in to the season at 29 and Watson and Doubs would be third year receivers. That and a little FA help might have been a real start to competing.

1 points
2
1
Leatherhead's picture

February 02, 2023 at 04:21 pm

We can only control what we can control. If you win the division you get a playoff game at home, and if you win that, you have a 1:4 chance of going to the Super Bowl, as opposed to the 1:16 chance you had at the beginning of the season, or the 1:7 chance you have if you make the playoffs.

That's it. Can't control who wins the other divisions. We can only focus on winning the division so that we get to competet for the Super Bowl.

I wouldn't categorize the offense as "poor". Out of synch, often, but if we just improve the line and change QBs, it'll be better. We could add a TE and a WR in the draft and be better. I don't think you get better by getting rid of your best players, as a general rule.

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:24 pm

You're making too much sense. They'll never go for it, but I'm hoping they do. Your plan is better.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 03, 2023 at 10:43 am

Tundraboy.....I coached HS football here in Texas, and every single year is a new year. You might be in a new school, or coaching a different level, or have a different AD, or whatever, so you're completely rebuilding the team every year. The Pros have it easier in that regard. We're building towards the 90 man roster and preparing to get our team ready for training camp, and it looks to me like we've got nearly 40 of our 45 man gameday roster already under contract.

I'd expect to see these guys dressed out on offense: Love, his backup,Dillon and Jones, Watson, Doubs, Toure, Melton, Lewis, Deguara, Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Runyan, Nijman, Myers, Tom, Rhyan. That's 17 out of our 21 offensive players we dress out. What's missing? A WR, A TE, some blockers.

Same on defense. I expect we'll see Clark, Slaton, Wyatt, PSmith, Walker, Campbell, Alexander, Stokes, Douglas and Savage. That's 10. Add in Ford, Carpenter, Gary (eventually), Enagbare, another DL like maybe Slayton? We also have Innes Gaines and Shemar. So we're only short a couple of guys from having our 21 here, too. We need a safety, and an edge since Gary is hurt. Not an insurmountable problem, IMO.

We're not starting from scratch. It seems to me that the winds of change are blowing. We're going to trade Rodgers and add some people in the draft, but most of the team is already in place.

0 points
0
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 03, 2023 at 11:27 pm

Without Rodgers the coaching may improve That's what concerns me most. There's talent here but they are not getting the potential out of that talent. Fingers crossed.

0 points
0
0
Dragon5's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:26 am

If they did publish anything, it would only validate our concerns--and quicken their demise.

1 points
3
2
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:16 am

Hence the "certainly anonymous" part of my post. But yeah, even anonymity can give you a false sense of security if what you're writing about is known only to a select few people - any such article would also have to contain only info that's widely known about in the FO.

2 points
2
0
Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:29 am

I'd be glad to get the viewpoints of Murph, Gute, LaFleur, and Rodgers.
It seems no one in the media asks the hard questions.
For example:
Aaron Rodgers, in the last playoff game against the 49ers, why did you throw incomplete to a double-covered Davante Adams when Allen Lazard was crossing the middle of the field wide open? Did you not see Lazard, or did you think the option to go to Adams was still better? Can you see why fans, based on your failure on this game-changing play, would lose some confidence in you as a big-game quarterback?
Coach LaFleur, is it your decision for Aaron Rodgers not to play in preseason games, or his decision? What did Rodgers say to you during his apparent tantrum at the sidelines at the end of regulation against the Cowboys? In the playoff loss to the Bucs, with first-and-goal from the 8-yard-line late in the game, who called the three plays that didn't gain a yard?
Brian Gutekunst, how did you feel when Rodgers held out before the 2020 season until just before the start of training camp, then in his return press conference trashed the Packers front office for supposedly being cold-hearted to players? It seems he attacked your reputation without compelling evidence to back it up. How do you feel about that?
***
I don't understand the lack of probing journalism, and the lack of accountability for the top people with the Packers.
It seems a good journalist would ask these questions to provide our notables with the Packers an opportunity to present their side of the story.
As it is, we the fans are left to piece together the stories of the Packers as best we can from what we can gather from personal observation and reports from others.
***
I try to be careful in my comments here at CHTV, but I do have strong opinions based on what information I have.
I'd be glad for players, coaches, and executives with the Packers to give their side of the story, not necessarily to me directly, but to the fans in general.
If they don't choose to do so, I don't feel I can be blamed for any inaccuracies on my part, as long as I do my reasonable best to get to the truth of the matter.

4 points
8
4
Bitternotsour's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:04 pm

sadly, sports journalism is transactional. if a reporter asked your questions they'd be frozen out of future questions. that, and they'd never get an honest answer.

sometimes we as fans have to trust our eyes. yes, LeFleur is a weak cheerleader, not a leader of men. yes, Aaron runs his own show and considers himself bigger than the team. Gutekunst gets to run the draft, that's basically it, and he has no say over how the people he brings in get used.

3 points
4
1
Tundraboy's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:27 pm

Yes inquiring minds want to know. Media is soft as the team has been.

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:37 am

I don't know whether to look at this as hilarious or terrifying.

It's terrifying If any decision maker at 1265 is actually taking our posts seriously and maybe that's the reason the team is in cap hell and screwed on numerous other issues.

Or maybe it's hilarious and our posts lighten the mood around the office which would be great.

As for Aaron Jones I'm just glad that I've always supported him and definitely want him back with the Packers in 2023. I'm with 'ya Aaron. Jones that is.

Nags bring this up at the next press conference with Gute. Or maybe call him directly if you can. Ask him if they pay attention to CHTV at 1265. If yes go for a consulting retainer with a bonus for reaching the NFCCG and another for reaching and winning the SB. It's another excellent, ongoing revenue stream for CHTV if it works out. We should all be getting a piece for our "proprietary knowledge" that we're passing on.

Go Nags Go! Thanks, Since '61

10 points
10
0
Swisch's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:25 am

I have a much higher regard for the voice of we the people.
While experts can do a lot of good, they can also do the most harm.
That seems to be a constant of history, and very much true in our own time -- with the most outrageous and dangerous flights from reality.
It seems to me the experts need to heed the common sense of the common person in order to keep in touch with the real world.
If we're not careful, the experts will have us sitting at home isolated and impoverished, censored and silenced, discouraged and dependent -- with the cure being much worse than any disease or social ill.
Plus, we won't even have a decent team to root for in Green Bay, as a diversion, if the team continues its decline into dysfunction.
Respect authority, but question it.

-1 points
2
3
Tundraboy's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:30 pm

I agree . We know the brand better than the image these marketing genius are trying to pass off. We may not be football experts but we do know this team once known for toughness especially on defense is a shell of itself. It was also a dynamic offensive juggernaut. What happened. What don't they see that we do.

0 points
0
0
wildbill's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:10 am

It was stated many years ago that if you listen to the fans, you end up sitting with them.

2 points
3
1
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:43 pm

At brunch? Or in 1265?

3 points
3
0
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:30 pm

"Or maybe it's hilarious and our posts lighten the mood around the office which would be great."

Murphy's probably trolling us by posting as "stockholder". :)

"Hey look, Brian, I've got that asshole jurp going again!"

4 points
5
1
Since'61's picture

February 01, 2023 at 02:03 pm

Hysterical. Cookie for jurp. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:50 pm

Hell '61, I received a call just the other day from Gutey, thanking me for my convincing response to a comment last Spring on why we should draft Watson in the 2nd round last year. ;P

Oh they're reading all right. He also said another reason he drafted him was because Nags wanted Watson and was convinced we wouldn't draft him because in fact Nags did want him. He said he watched it on one of Nags video pod casts. Just so happens, I watched the same one, felt bad, so I got on my hotline to Gutey and informed him, "Damn the horses, full speed ahead! Draft Watson in the 2nd round no matter what, just for Nags..."

See what power we have?

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:03 pm

It's good to know that Nags has the direct line to Gute. It that case Nags should go for the consulting contract with a retainer. LOL. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 02, 2023 at 08:27 am

"Damn the horses, full speed ahead! Draft Watson in the 2nd round no matter what, just for Nags..."

Lol. Nags' draft crush was Skyy Moore if I remember correctly. I guess Gutey could only make one of them happen :)

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 02, 2023 at 09:14 am

Well, I've only watched a very few of his videos, but I am sure if you ask Nags, he remembers saying, "Gutey would not draft Watson, because he (Nags) wanted him to be drafted."

In fact, IIRC, Nags said, "I guarantee you Gutey won't draft Watson, because I want him to..." Or words to that effect. The only reason I know this is because I believe it was the 1st video I watched of Nags. Anyone who knows me, knows I'm not a computer wizard, or I would find it and post a link. ;P

1 points
1
0
MainePackFan's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:16 pm

I couldn't find the exact quote . But were a couple of times he mentioned Moore. He mentions Pickens too.

Starts at 11:35
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packersdaily-draft-day-is-not-a-good-movie...

Starts at 8:03
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packersdaily-the-hay-is-in-the-barn-340#co...

Another slow day at work :)

0 points
0
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 02, 2023 at 02:38 pm

You're right. He was all-in on Skyy Moore. But like you said, he mentioned Watson and Pickens and then went into his rant about how if he likes a player he will not be drafted. ; )

Great job MPF...

2 points
2
0
dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:46 am

These guys have handlers and hangers-on who are seeing these things and relaying them, too. Player agents are paying attention to their guys' media hits. It doesn't mean that players aren't fans too--after all, there's an underground culture of fantasy football in the NFL that isn't much talked about.

6 points
6
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:55 pm

"... underground culture of fantasy football in the NFL that isn't much talked about."

I guess you haven't see the Fantasy Live shows on ESPN, NFL Network, Sports talk radio... They talk about fantasy football ad nauseum... It may have been underground 20 years ago, but today it's almost sickening how much they talk about it.

Now, get off my lawn. Lol

1 points
1
0
Lphill's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:48 pm

I wish Joe Barry would read CHTV .

1 points
1
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:07 pm

Screen shot everything, print it out and send it to him in GB in care of MaLF, and then send copies to MM, Gutey, and every member of the board.

Easy Peasy...

2 points
2
0
Rarescope's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:58 pm

Apparently running backs have feelings too. Come on CHTV, better do a "3 Reasons to Keep A Jones" article and make it snappy!

2 points
2
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 04:42 pm

They did. Unfortunately #33 didn't see that one...

1 points
1
0
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:42 am

Dbs -There is No one striking fear Into Wrs.
So was it the coach? I blame the GM.
No- wait. Gutey is untouchable.
Coach/QB combo- Rodgers said to simplify the
Offense. I know trade Rodgers.
Tight end - Really? Whats wrong with
Lewis, DeGuara, and Davis.
We had Graham.- Gutey spent 10 mil.
Drafting a 6’ 6” 250 guy, just hasn’t sunk in.
So you want a QB that will use a TE?
I don’t think the offense is schemed for that.
Weren’t we suppose to see a Running Game?
Yes- Joe Barry should be replaced.
But of the 4 teams in the play-offs.
They use the 4-3-4 and switch to the 4-2-5.
We rush Lowrey and Reed. Go Figure!
A Young mobile QB. - If their tradable.
Isn’t their value in them yet?
We're currently just a couple of players away.
For me; It’s just impossible to think otherwise.

-6 points
4
10
Johnblood27's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:15 am

dont bother using the word 'otherwise'

7 points
10
3
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:52 am

Snap!

1 points
4
3
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:44 am

Crackle - pop
No Rice Crispy cookie

-2 points
2
4
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:15 am

So much wrong here, and a solid 8 on the Bonkers Scale. And what does this:

"A Young mobile QB. - If their tradable.
Isn’t their value in them yet?"

even mean? To think we're a "couple of players away"... And in that last sentence, "think" should be replaced by "believe", because... well, I'M not going to say it.

1 points
4
3
PackyCheese500's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:29 am

So you think we are 1 or 2 players away from competing with a team like the Eagles? Are you stuck in 2021, because this Packers team went 8-9, and Rodgers has the 2nd worst season of his career. We are much more than one or two players away.

My fear is that if we try to go all in another year we won’t have the cap space b/c of Rodgers’ big contract to set up a roster around him good enough to compete with teams like the Eagles and 49ers. Not to mention we paid him to play like an MVP, and that’s NOT what he’s doing. We need to reset the salary cap and dump some big cap hits before we can contend again, namely Rodgers, Jones, Bakhtiari, and P. Smith.

All of the teams left in the Divisional round, with the exception of the Bills and Chiefs, have QBs on rookie contracts, and I think we can safely classify Mahoney as a one-of-a-kind. It is the same reason Brady never signed monster deals like Rodgers or Kirk Cousins did - he knows that the less money he takes up, the better the roster around him can be, and that gives him the best chance of winning a Super Bowl.

Do you want to know my honest opinion? I think we are 2 starting-caliber D-linemen, 1 starting OLB, 1 backup OLB, two starting safeties, a good center, another starting caliber WR, one star TE, and at least one off-season so the OL can get familiar with their new positions. Not to mention a great QB. If we had all of that, I think we could beat teams like the Eagles. There’s no possible way, with Rodgers contract and everything, we could get all of that by 2023. There is a way, though, we could have that in 2024 if we ditch the expensive veterans NOW.

4 points
8
4
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:00 am

2 players away. I only repeated what Rodgers Said.
I think were 1 DL away. But I would draft 2.
! OLb but Gary will be back.
2 starting Safeties - Well good Luck with that.
The Safeties were already fixed by Gutey.
But don't blame him. BS!
Why a Good C.? But don't Blame Gutey.
WR- Yep - that doesn't drop balls. 1 TE try 2.
You have the QB. You say Love. I say Rodgers.
You say rebuild. I say Reload.
Your plan is 5 years. My plan is the 5 years
of gutey were enough.
I say things won't change until you follow the winning
teams, and go with the 4-3-4.
I remember Lombardi, Devine, Starr, Right up to Wolf.
It's Time to make Waves!

-3 points
3
6
fastmoving's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:40 pm

With a chemtrailer like AR, who plays even than he looks, we are 50 guys away. Maybe more. And he is always at his worse when it count since 12 years.
Just a Diva, a weak, selfish wanna be leader, who is afraid of everything from planes to vaccines. Just a strange dude nobody wants on the team

1 points
4
3
crayzpackfan's picture

February 01, 2023 at 02:32 pm

SH - Do you believe what Rodgers said? 2 players away? Yes or No?

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:16 pm

Well, if those two players are the right two. Bart is dead, so that's unlikely.

I think that if you add two good offensive weapons to the offense we can bring back, we could be a pretty good offense. You start adding premium draft picks at WR and TE and putting them on the field with Watson and Jones and that's a pretty good first wave.

The second wave would be like Doubs, Dillon, Tonyan, Toure. We suit out 10 skill position players on offense, and that makes 8. Add Lewis, it's 9.

So, assuming good blocking and good health, I think that if you could add two premium guys at those positions, we'd be in a pretty good spot to win the division and make the playoffs.

2 points
3
1
Lphill's picture

February 01, 2023 at 03:51 pm

But the Packers put up 33 points on the Eagles .

2 points
3
1
Leatherhead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:24 pm

Good point. And we put up 32 COMBINED against Minnesota and Detroit, twice. Bad defenses. All 3 losses.

We simply have too many possessions that do not end in points.

5 points
5
0
PackyCheese500's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:56 pm

Did they win?

1 points
1
0
fair_weather's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:42 am

Rodgers for president!

1 points
2
1
dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:48 am

"But of the 4 teams in the play-offs.
They use the 4-3-4 and switch to the 4-2-5."

Virtually nobody plays a 'straight-up' anything anymore. Base alignments don't mean much because virually no one plays much base. Fixating on base alignments is unproductive. If the 3-4 was inherently flawed, why would half the teams in the league use it?

Note: Rams won last year's SB with a 3-4 base alignment.
How bout all those Patriots teams that won SBs with a 3-4 base?
Denver in 2016? Baltimore in 2014? Pittsburgh in 2006, 2009? 3-4

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:09 am

Why would they used it.??
Because their ILB is to slow, to go sideline to sideline!
And If you look up the depth charts.
You'll see the 4 DL front.
We've had the 3-4-4 Since 2010.
And how many DCs got fired.
We now have Don Capers and
Sherman running the Club.
If you can't get fast LBs.
You play the 3 -4-4
You then can play retreads.
Which will save a GMs job.

-3 points
2
5
dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:27 am

Holy word soup.

This makes no sense--and is based on...nothing.

1 points
3
2
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:58 pm

Now you're getting it dobber... ; )

1 points
2
1
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:34 pm

"We now have Don Capers and
Sherman running the Club."

I really REALLY hope that this is an analogy...

1 points
1
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:41 pm

Likely it isn't. A couple of months ago, I thought I spoke sh, but not so much anymore...

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:20 am

Well said Dobber. This is a hollow shell distraction. Neither 3-4 nor 4-3 are inherently answers to anything. They can both be winners or losers and long have been.

I will say this, with no FA money, the one almost certain thing about changing is that it will take time to achieve and be utterly counterproductive for that reason with a QB on a season by season basis which is where Rodgers has put himself now in in effect.

Post Rodgers, maybe if you see it as a couple of year process to return to relevance. Then I’d be open minded, if the team had coaches committed to it and a record if success running a scheme with a 4-3 base. We can’t even move on for much more obvious reasons, so I doubt that this will come to pass unless and until we’ve had a complete clear out of our coaches.

2 points
4
2
croatpackfan's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:11 am

"A Young mobile QB. - If their tradable.
Isn’t their value in them yet?"

I have one secret to share with you, stockholder - Aaron Charles Rodgers is not young (at least for football player) and he is not as mobile as he was decade earlier. But, it looks like some teams are interested in negotiations for his (ACR) trade. We all hope that will happen.

And, yes he still have some trade value...

0 points
3
3
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:21 am

But I don't. I trust Rodgers.
For every Love there is a Flynn.
It use to be in TT we Trust.
Yet Every year Cheesehead comes out
with a Draft guide.
The more common sense is ignored.

-2 points
4
6
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:21 am

Lewis is way past his shelf life, unless you want a 6 catch guy. Deguara should be running Cooley's play sets as a HB/FB. Davis is a guy who blocks the edge and catches 1-2 balls/season. Get 2-3 TE s from this draft and retool the attack. Play to Win. No time for Win/some. The QB has to be able to scramble from pressure, but he shouldn't be a RPO guy on designed keepers. Philly was lucky Hurts wasn't taken out for the season.
Rodgers cannot connect on the deep left sideline out, consistently. The CB is Joey Porter, Jr if he falls to #15, I doubt it. Cory Trice hits like a safety and holds the perimeter down. Gutedkunst almost blew the 2022 draft ,but was lucky to recover and get a trade from MN to secure Watson. This is not speculation. His five year Plan is a Fail. They will need to move players and picks to get at minimum two selections in round two, preferably three. They like RAS guys who are soft and do not understand the game of football. If your D line is on skates, they are not quick enough off their sets and are not getting low into the opponent.
I wonder who bails next from this clown, Barry's, staff?

4 points
4
0
stockholder's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:41 am

Deguara should be a Cap Casualty. Savings 1 mil.
Porter won't be there and neither will Robinson. @15
The Tes. must be taken later in the drafts. Per WRs 2022.
A OLB with speed must be drafted.
( if they switch their front)
Remember Frackwell, CM3?
Thats what needs to drafted first.
No safety will be drafted in rd. 1.
That run will be rd. 2. Unless 1 runs a 4.3.

-1 points
3
4
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:07 am

Uzomah is my Edge guy, but he will need to be a guy taken from #28-31. Move down in the first ,or trade back into round one. They can use Walker to come off the corner if they are creative. Gary will be out until Trick R' Treat. The top TEs will all be gone by round two. Do not make the same mistake as last year's whiff on Rhyan.
The second TE should come in rd four-five and these guys may be gone. McBride was there in the second, but he liked Walker? Dinosaur Offenses stay ossified. Safety is rd four-six. Get CBs and move Douglas to FS. Maybe Stokes could play free? He cannot tackle. They will need quite a few picks in the early rounds to even hope to compete in '23. The Lions will add significant talent.
The viqueens are threatening to boost their defense. The 49rs will RPO their QBs to the IR.

-1 points
2
3
HarryHodag's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:54 am

I think it's very useful to look at the two teams heading to the Super Bowl to see why they are there and the Packers are here.
1)Two outstanding offensive lines. I was blown away by Philly's offensive line. On one play last weekend you could see them en masse move the 49'ers good defensive line backwards. Kansas City also has one.
2)Elite pass rushers who are always a threat. A defensive line hard to move with linebackers able to get to the sidelines quickly. Defensive backs in position and ready to tackle.
3) Quarterbacks with elite arms and accuracy with the ability to run if needed.
4) Wide receivers who make tough catches. Tight ends who are a threat and can block.
5) Running backs who can make extra yards.

The Packers have a few of these points, but not enough. The coaches of all four of the teams last weekend are tough minded individuals whose team reflects that.

But in the end it comes down to personnel. The Packers simply don't have enough elite players any more.

14 points
14
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:00 am

"The coaches of all four of the teams last weekend are tough minded individuals whose team reflects that."

Wouldn't that be nice!

What discourages me most is that we are going to have to wait a long while for that, and until we get one our efforts will be futile
More wasted time missing the obvious.

5 points
5
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:39 am

Best Pray for an Infante to Holmgren model of transformation. The forecast calls for Pain.

3 points
4
1
wildbill's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:17 am

You mean our milktoast, cheerleader, doesn’t strike fear in opposing coaches!? Say it ain’t so..,,,

3 points
5
2
Leatherhead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:55 am

"" 1)Two outstanding offensive lines. I was blown away by Philly's offensive line. On one play last weekend you could see them en masse move the 49'ers good defensive line backwards. Kansas City also has one.""

100%. If you're just knocking people out of the way, it certainly improves your offense quite a bit.

Strengthen our line. We can keep Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Runyan, Myers, Tom, Newman, Walker, Jones. We can resign Nijman. We can add a premium guy in the draft.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The center from Wisconsin is popping up in the 4th round of a lot of my simulations. Tippermann? Is he any good? Is he an upgrade on Myers?

3 points
3
0
dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:28 am

"The center from Wisconsin is popping up in the 4th round of a lot of my simulations. Tippermann? Is he any good? Is he an upgrade on Myers?"

Hard to say...he might be better than he profiles because he was on a line that was constantly underperforming and in flux. Seemed to have some nagging injuries over a couple years, but played a lot of games, though.

2 points
2
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:49 pm

Why keep Newman? Just asking. Are you thinking he could develop or what? I suppose he could, it took Lang over 3 years.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:37 pm

Because you have 9 offensive linemen active on gameday.

Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Runyan, Nijman, Myers.....these guys start. We've also got Tom, who looks like he could start. But after that, we have two backup tackles, Walker and Jones, neither of whom played a snap last year.

As interior backups, we have Newman, Hanson, and Rhyan, who didn't play a snap. Tom could also play inside, if he's not already playing someplace else.

But the point.....is that if you want to get rid of guys like Hanson and Newman, you have to get somebody better to push them off the roster. Newman, for example, was a 4th round pick who started a bunch of games as a rookie. Why do you assume some 6th round rookie is going to be an upgrade?

In my simulations, I always get two offensive linemen in the top 115, a tackle and an interior guy. If any of the rookies improves....Tom,Rhyan, Walker, Jones....then we might have enough guys to push Newman off the roster. But we don't yet.

1 points
1
0
BirdDogUni's picture

February 02, 2023 at 09:38 pm

I gave you a thumbs up, but I don't think you have to have anybody to replace Hanson. Newman is a speed bump right now, so if Walker or Caleb Jones or Sean Rhyan can't move him down the depth chart we probably need 3 or 4 more guys.

That might be a bit of hyperbole, but Newman to my eye, shouldn't even be on the practice squad let alone the top 8 - 9 guys conversation. Granted, I admit I'm not there at practice or locker room, but to have Hanson and Newman starting to start the season? MaLF ought to be fired for that alone. Terrible personnel evaluation. Or the OL coach needs replacing or both...

0 points
0
0
GaryC's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:37 am

Read my mind re the coaches and coaching which is sadly lacking at the Packers - and this is aimed at the Head Coach. I’d also throw in there authority, preparation, scheme, execution (yes also down to the players but who fails to hold them accountable), invention & creativity, adaptability (fancy adjusting in-game - who’d have thought). There are many others but sure you get the gist.

4 points
4
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:54 am

"I'm not talking about scheming plays for the tight end, I'm referring to looking for easy completions to the tight end short/middle when the wide receivers are blanketed."

Has anyone seen a successful playoff team let alone a Super Bowl champion not rely on their TE, or in general use ALL of the fieldI?

I haven't in my lifetime.

11 points
11
0
Bitternotsour's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:14 pm

Off the top of my head, the St. Louis Rams. Maybe the Packers last super bowl. Did Eli's Giants have a tight end?

1 points
1
0
Tundraboy's picture

February 02, 2023 at 11:45 pm

All of the field TEs and everyone else

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:07 am

Great work as always, Al. Thank you!

DBs - Hells to the yes. A great observation. True. Points directly to Packers deficiencies, - curveball here - in how DBs are used!!!

When have we last witnessed tight man coverage like we all saw last week? From our Packers?

I think our players are fine, but, Barry… Interactions between one of the best DB Coaches in the NFL, Jerry Gray, who has since left GB, and Barry clearly illustrate a big rift over usage philosophies.

Timeouts - Big, bright spotlight upon HC/QB problems. Had they been in unison, there would be no need for such idiotic penalties & wasted timeouts.

It’s been “cart before the horse,” in GB for more than a decade. While I’d like to finally see LaFleur’s system run - I question his being deserving of that chance after allowing himself to be walked all over.

*Count me all-in on a HC change as a result. LaFleur lost his team. I think arguing otherwise is futile. Despite record, it’s been obvious for years.

TE - Draft one or two really good ones this year and use them liberally.

QB who uses TE - Lay down the fucking law and demand heavier use of both TE and RBs. Rodgers had his own agenda, divergent from team goals.

Respected DC - Again, but, Barry…

Young, mobile QB - We got one. A really good one. Use him.

* HC/DC problems exist whether GB trades AR or not. Think Bisaccia returns to this hot mess? Wow. Much to fix in GB, despite what I believe to be a good collection of talented players. Leadership is in need of replacement more than players, with AR removed from the equation.

To me, AR’s his way or nothing routine has been problem #1.

10 points
14
4
Leatherhead's picture

February 01, 2023 at 08:11 am

I'm going to throw this out there

""Points directly to Packers deficiencies, - curveball here - in how DBs are used!!!

When have we last witnessed tight man coverage like we all saw last week? From our Packers?""

If we're going to be critical, we should acknowledge that the Packers passing defense was among the leaders in fewest yards and interceptions. That's how they're being used.

I'd also point out that especially after Gary went down, we didn't generate real good pressure, which is a good thing to have if you want to play tight man coverage.

It's all interconnected, amigo. These offenses for the Eagles and Chiefs put a lot of pressure on the opponent to catch up, which ours didn't this season. Hurts and Mahomes are real offensive weapons, and Rodgers is not. They've got great lines, and we do not.

Personally, I think if we fix the offense, the defense will improve simply because they aren't on the field as much, and when they are, they'll have a lead to work with. This year.....we won 7 of the 8 games where we scored over 22 points. We need an offense that'll score 20+ points on a consistent basis, especially against weakling defenses like the Lions.

2 points
5
3
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:22 am

Those are, without a doubt, great points, LH. No secondary can cover at a playoff level without a pass rush.

I’m thinking more about leadership, and when a HC caves to his QB the way LaFleur did, that leadership quality takes a very big hit. I don’t dislike LaFleur, but, team discipline has proven to be a big problem in his tenure. Much of that due to AR, who was paid to be a team leader, but appeared throughout LaFleur’s tenure to have gone rogue.

It will be interesting to see if he can recover once AR is gone. I question whether that is possible.

Adding to that, LaFleur has been compromised from Murphy’s meddling since day 1. I believe we all can agree on that.

Keeping LaFleur to give him the opportunity to right his part of the ship could pay dividends. Especially with Love immersed into his system.

A bit of a mess right now, for sure. Hopefully they all try to right their wrongs. Top to bottom.

-2 points
3
5
T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:56 am

If LaFleur can flip on the toughness switch and hold the people and players under him accountable, he could have a winning team.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:15 am

T7Steve, that's what I'm left wondering. Does he have that ability to hold his players accountable? Will they respond to him? To the coaches under him? I'm hopeful, but also realize it's a tall order.

For instance, Quay Walker's ridiculous antics, pushing an opposing team's trainer, twice, resulting in disqualification both times are two very big red flags.

Another is Jerry Gray's departure, and what that does to the players in our secondary. It will be very interesting to see how they respond under a new DB Coach.

Toughness? I'd sure love to see that again in GB. Feels like it has been a while. Since Charles Woodson?

Ryan Pickett. Cullen Jenkins... BJ Raji. Des Bishop. Nick Collins. Tramon Williams. Hawk. Matthews. Josh Sitton. TJ Lang. James Jones. Greg Jennings. John Kuhn. Sam Shields. James Starks. Erik Walden. Frank Zombo. Scott Wells. Marshall Newhouse.Chad freaking Clifton. Brian Bulaga. Tom CrabbyCrabCrabLookAtHimGoTree. Jordy...

That's the last time I recall "toughness," as a descriptor for a Packers team.

1 points
2
1
T7Steve's picture

February 01, 2023 at 12:50 pm

Accountability would be directing Quay's energy to his play and teammates not trainers. I've commented before that I think other sideline people will try to goad him into trouble from now on and wouldn't be surprised if the second one was caused by plan. Who knows what was said at that moment?

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:44 pm

I would trade him.

-5 points
0
5
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 05:44 pm

You get the gold star, or gold label for the mention of Crab.

1 points
1
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 11:16 am

Doubler.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

February 01, 2023 at 09:41 am

"Think Bisaccia returns to this hot mess?"

I think he has a contract for 2023 with the Packers, so if he doesn't get the job in Indy, he'll be back. Which means, he'll be back: it's an uphill climb for ST specialists to get regular gigs as HCs.

"Much to fix in GB, despite what I believe to be a good collection of talented players."

If the team mindset is already busted--and I don't think it is--they would have to clean house.

5 points
5
0
greengold's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:33 am

I think the circumstances are so far off the charts that we are all left wondering where the team actually stands. These last 3-4 years have been one weird ride.

I'm still baffled by being unable to define LaFleur's Offensive scheme, four years in.

Thanks for the Bisaccia info, dobs. Minutia.

4 points
4
0
Bitternotsour's picture

February 01, 2023 at 06:22 pm

Yes. No need to define the scheme other than it's LaFleurs offense. 4 years and people are debating it as though it wasn't right in front of them. It is what it is.

As LaFleur has said many times "I just have to do a better job". At some point we have to accept the fact that this is all the better he can do.

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

February 02, 2023 at 12:34 pm

I don't buy that for one second. You don't think LaFleur wanted to see RPOs run differently? If he didn't, then he can get the hell out too, but, I have big doubts what we saw was 100% MLF's desired scheme.

We progressively saw massive shifts away from the bag of goods we were sold as his scheme on Day 1, four years ago.

0 points
0
0
pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:07 am

I was listening to 1500 AM last night. They mentioned that KC and Philly have coaches that the players respect (maybe fear a bit). I do respect Coach LaF...as a father whose daughter I am gonna take out on a date. He seems like a good dude. But, not sure if players respect/fear him as an NFL Coach? With #12 rolling his eyes and tantrums while directly looking at the coach, not sure if this bleeds over to some of the other players and changes their approach/opinion of the Coach?

I hope if/when Love is the QB (hopefully in GB), he knows enough to steer clear with that theatrical, emotional outburst.

*I may be wrong but I have seen some of the OTHER #12's (Brady) tantrums...however, they are not directed at the Coach. I don't follow New England or Tampa Bay, so again...I may be wrong.

1 points
4
3
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:19 am

You forgot about Rodgers getting in Scooter's face and yelling at him after a play call that Rodgers didn't like.

No respect from a TEAM CAPTAIN for his coach = no respect from anyone on the team for their coach. These things matter. IMO, Scooter lost the locker room; seems to me that many of the players couldn't give a shit if we win just so long as they and their friends don't get hurt and their paychecks don't bounce.

6 points
8
2
pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:35 am

Jurp, you may have over ran your headlights abit? Reread my post...I won't even charge you this time. :D

1 points
1
0
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:48 am

I didn't equate "tantrums" with "getting in the coaches face and ripping him a new one" which is what Rodgers certainly appeared to be doing during that game. Looks like we're on the same page, then.

It's funny - I never watched a complete game and, in some cases, missed entire games, and yet I saw that incident. Wonder how many other times Rodgers did that?

1 points
2
1
jannes bjornson's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:51 am

During that particular play sequence, Rodgers was in the right.

1 points
2
1
pantz_bURp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 10:54 am

Could he of handled it differently and still get his point across?

1 points
1
0
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 01:41 pm

Irrelevant. And Scooter should've benched his ass for the next series. They can talk about the play sequence behind closed doors the next work day; you NEVER yell at your boss in public.

0 points
2
2
Johnblood27's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:20 am

you are right...

1 points
1
0
Packer_Fan's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:16 am

The biggest thing that held back the Pack was the DC, Barry. We all knew the offense was a work in process. We needed the defense to keep the game close and win a few. Never happened.

Everyone is talking about Rodgers, but the Barry story is just as big. We needed an attacking defense and we got a soft defense. We needed Barry to make adjustments more and he didn't or slow to react. And Gray's departure is so telling.

Then a coaching staff slow to change. Benching Rodgers for Nixon was so slow. Not playing Wyatt enough. Benching Savage. The OL.

And finally Rodgers. Enough about him.

That Lion game was just the dagger. The offense couldn't score in the second half. The defense couldn't get off the field. And Rodgers last pass as a Packer was a bomb he heaved and got intercepted.

I am okay with Rodgers leaving, but Barry should go too

7 points
8
1
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:21 am

Arguably, defense and special teams, coupled with Vikings OL injuries, won the Minnesota game for us. Once they got down by 2 TDs, they folded. That game confirmed that the Vikings were just pretenders.

4 points
5
1
PackyCheese500's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:38 am

I think the Vikings were an extremely lucky team that won many one score games. Now, while they are over 25m over the cap to start off 2023, I would not be surprised if they win 7 or less games in 2023.

0 points
2
2
jurp's picture

February 01, 2023 at 07:50 am

They also benefited from an easy-ish schedule due to their 2021 finish. That will definitely change this year. Yeah, I can see a 7-10 VIkings team. They'll probably finish above us, though. *sigh*

1 points
2
1