Are You Ready for Some Tanking?

With apologies to Hank Williams Jr., it's worth considering.

Should the Packers tank their season? 

It’s an interesting dilemma, this tanking business, one worth breaking down a bit as our football team stands like a deer in the middle of a dark road, frozen by the lights of an oncoming semi.

(Some of you are probably thinking, “I did not come here for this. Can’t we just talk about how to dismember Joe Barry while he’s still alive?” But hang with me.)

On the “no” side of the ledger are all the obvious things we believe about pride and dignity and professionalism. It’s a bit like a contract: Professionals are paid to win, and they take pride in providing maximum effort in the service of winning. And fans, who help foot the bill and derive civic pride from their sports teams, should demand nothing less. On some level, this is reflecting our idealized version of how we should  be in life: always striving to do our best, to come by success honestly, and to be rewarded for it by winning.

So asking people to lose, even if it’s to enable winning later, is against human nature, and an affront to what we believe is right. And yet we are awash in cheat codes, finding ways to advance, or win, which seem perfectly acceptable, and even lionized. But are they?

Take the pool hustler, who throws early games to induce bigger bets, and then takes the mark’s money. As with tanking, he invests in losing in order to win later. What about his pride and professionalism when he loses? Nobody cares. Paul Newman plays him in the movies. 

Fact is, football teams find all kinds of ways to lose while dressing it up to look acceptable. They don’t have to tell players to purposely fumble or drop passes. They can get rid of their best players, or have poor game plans, all for better draft capital or position later. The Colts did it to get Andrew Luck. The Eagles dumped a final regular-season game to Washington to improve their draft position. Lovie Smith, pissed the Texans werent rehiring him, was supposed to tank last season’s finale,  but won the game instead to help the Bears get the top draft pick. 

Which brings us to the Packers. At 2-5, Green Bay could lose out and have a good shot at one of the top two quarterbacks in next year’s draft, or Marvin Harrison Jr, a generational wideout talent.

They won’t do this, of course. It’s not in the team’s DNA, and tanking usually doesn’t play well in the locker room. And the one big difference between pool hustling is that you can’t really control how you’ll end up. 

Brian Gutekunst made a tank-ish move Tuesday by sending Rasul Douglas to Buffalo for a third-rounder. Given that the Bills are good, that probably translates to around the 80th pick next year. Is that a deal you’d make?

I wouldn’t. Quality corner, great locker room guy, stays healthy. Given the state of the team’s D, and the secondary in particular, it’ll make winning even harder, and maybe that’s the plan, to amass draft capital going into next year. The team will also be rid of it huge salary cap burden.

But the team can handle this another way, much as the Rams — ironically the opponent Sunday — intended at the beginning of the year. Playing with almost nothing but youngsters, like Green Bay, Sean McVay decided not to worry about about wins and losses and just threw the kids out there to play, have fun and learn by doing. No expectations, just Matthew Stafford and a bunch of nobodies, some of whom are now somebodies, like Puka Nacua.

The Rams are only 3-5, but they are having fun, experimenting and refining McVay’s offense together. The Packers, by contrast, are a train wreck,  trying to win, babying injured players but still playing them, and doing nothing well. 

How about just stop it. Stop banking on players from previous drafts finally getting it. Put the semi-injured players on ice. Play all the kids no matter what, and forget about the scoreboard. Try new plays, refine the scheme on both sides of the ball, and then see where things stand in late December. Maybe you find a way forward, or maybe you clean house.

Either way, it can’t be less fun than it is right now.

 

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__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

__________________________

5 points
 

Comments (138)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
NickPerry's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:32 am

"Should the Packers tank their season?"

Hmm... I don't think it's in a players or a coaches nature to tank. Like Jonathan alluded to it goes against human nature. Players and coaches WANT to win. GMs on the other hand DO tank, so if Gute pretty sure he'll be here in 2024, he's never going to say it, but trading Rasul was a statement he's all in on "The Tank".

Gute and MLF are like water and oil, gasoline and a book of matches, whatever way you want to spin it...They aren't on the same page and haven't been for quite a while. Matt LaFleur WASN'T Gutekunst's choice as Head Coach. He was Mark Murphy's. In a way I've always felt a bit sorry for Gute for that reason...At least a little sorry. I mean he can't even hire his OWN head coach?

IMO this team doesn't need to TRY to tank. The coaching staff assembled can't coach. Absolutely positively can't teach, and MLF no longer has a generational talent at QB to cover up his many flaws. The funny thing that's happening this season is I'm starting to see maybe, just MAYBE, Rodgers wasn't quite as douchey as I once thought. I still think he's a bit of an asshole, but I'm also starting to see what his issues were at the end.

I'm going to TRY not to get pissed anymore on Sundays. I mean why continue to scream at my TV screen when the guys wearing the G don't know any better. Let me rephrase that. They haven't been taught the right way because the Packers coaching staff just can't teach! The O-Line is regressing. The WRs aren't making any progress and Doubs and Watson are regressing. The TEs? I just hope they don't screw them up before the next coaches come in who CAN COACH.

Nope...Not getting mad. I'm just going to continue to watch with one eye closed as MLF guides this team to a 2-15 record. HOPEFULLY that nets them Drake Maye.

16 points
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Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:02 am

I stopped getting pissed sometime shortly after the NFCCG against Seattle.

I've been waiting patiently since, i'll keep waiting until we get Howdy Doody out as President.

5 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:27 am

"I've always felt a bit sorry for Gute for that reason"

What self-respecting sought after top-of-the-line GM would stay in the job as its constructed?

I don't feel sorry for him, but who could you get that would take the job under these circumstances?

All things considered, he's about as good as we can expect till things change, Nick.

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:53 am

He took the cash. If he would have signed with Houston, he would be on the street as we blog.

2 points
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NickPerry's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:29 pm

That's a good point T7Steve. Just like anything else you GET what you pay for...

Murphy and Gute had a plan... Ride the coattails of Aaron Rodgers, win a SB or two, an live in eternity with streets named after them. It was THERE for the taking in 2020 and 2021, they should have had at least one in one of those two years.

0 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:49 am

"IMO this team doesn't need to TRY to tank. The coaching staff assembled can't coach. Absolutely positively can't teach, and MLF no longer has a generational talent at QB to cover up his many flaws. The funny thing that's happening this season is I'm starting to see maybe, just MAYBE, Rodgers wasn't quite as douchey as I once thought. I still think he's a bit of an asshole, but I'm also starting to see what his issues were at the end."

Rodgers - Its funny to me how so many wanted Rodgers out of town for whatever reason. But anyone that opposed that opinion was basically ridiculed. Now I am seeing all over about how they wished Rodgers was back or how he wasn't as bad as they thought. Just have to say wishing someone gone does not mean things will be better. Let me ask you, can you blame Rodgers for the last couple of years? Instead of drafting him a WR that could help immediately they drafted his replacement. Then they trade away the best WR in the league. That wasn't the coach, that was the GM.

LaFleur - Put yourself in his shoes. He had a HOF QB that could change things in game because he has seen everything. He had the best WR in the league that gets traded away. Those players really never got replaced on offense.
Move to this year and his All Pro caliber LT plays 1 game and can't play anymore. His All Pro Caliber LG gets hurt, misses a few games and takes him several games to get close to his normal level of play. His pro bowl RB gets hurt in the first game and misses several games, still isn't fully back. His most talented WR gets hurt at the end of camp and struggles coming back from the injury. He has nothing but first and 2nd year WR's and TE's. The OL has been in shambles. His QB while he isn't a rookie this is the first time he has played, seeing a lot of stuff he hasn't seen before. And he is trying to throw to all young weapons who are learning as well.

What can he do? We can sit here and put all the blame on LaFleur, but realistically if you want to blame someone, blame Gutey, for giving LaFleur the players he has given him. They should have never went into the season with 1 veteran TE and WR (sure I guess we could consider Tyler Davis a veteran who went on IR, so we could say 2) with more then 1 year experience. There were cheap veteran options available that they could have gotten to help. Gutey chose not to do that. Now LaFleur and Love have to suffer with it.

I'm not saying LaFleur is great, but lets be realistic with what he has been given to work with. Most young players are very inconsistent. That is what we are seeing right now. We are seeing a lot of inconsistent young players. And the problem is we don't have the veterans to help get us through these lulls. The veterans we do have, have been injured.

0 points
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T7Steve's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:37 am

RC, I don't think anyone wishes #12 was back or still here. That had to end along with the SC hell we're in. There's always going to be the "I told you so" crowd, even if they didn't tell us. You're just seeing people trying to make comparisons or thinking that maybe he wasn't as much of the problem as they thought.

For what it's worth, I don't think Love's as much of the problem as we think. His mistakes just stand out more and make him the easy scape goat like #12 was last season (some of which was warranted when he insisted on playing hurt and couldn't or wouldn't practice).

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:05 am

In some alternate universe I would have loved to have seen what it would have been like if they didn't draft Love, traded up in the draft to take Jefferson, and kept Adams. I would have loved to have seen how these last 3-4 years would have went differently.
I highly doubt we have the turmoil with Rodgers and who knows what happens. They could have drafted Levis this year and maybe been set for the future. Who knows.

Drafting Love set this whole thing in the direction it has headed.

I don't think Love is as much of the problem either. The problem is do we know? We don't because of who they put around him.

2 points
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Razer's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:51 am

...In some alternate universe I would have loved to have seen what it would have been like if they didn't draft Love, traded up in the draft to take Jefferson, and kept Adams. I would have loved to have seen how these last 3-4 years would have went differently...

I am not a fan of the "wasted Rodgers" phrase but you bring up the crux of the "wasted opportunities" reality. We had "the guy", we had the O-line and we did little to push it over the top. Gutekunst kept throwing draft picks into the secondary or moving back for more developmental picks. Watching the Rodgers window close over the last couple of seasons was like watching an accident in slow motion. Last season was the stupidest ending to a great QB career. Sad

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:17 am

So many blamed Rodgers. But maybe they should have listened to him more. They handled Adams like crap. They didn't do enough to support the players they did have especially the last few years.
And now we are essentially starting over. Whether it will be a quick turnaround or back to the 70/80's hell hole, we will have to wait and see.

2 points
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Packers1985's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:35 am

The main problem is that many couldn't digest that 12 has been outspoken about some of the issues. Though deep down we all know it we don't like to be pointed out as a loyal fanbase of a historic franchise.
Until the realization hits them which is somewhat happening now. Really feel sorry for Love to be put in such situation and some what to on Lafluer like you mentioned not a great coach but esply this yr there was none(in terms of experience) given to him to execute his game plan.

2 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:40 am

"In some alternate universe I would have loved to have seen what it would have been like if they didn't draft Love"

Remember when GB drafted Kevin King with TJ Watt still on the board? People on this site bitched about that non-stop for years.

Do you remember who was still in the board when GB picked Jordan Love in 2020? Jalen Hurts, near the bottom of the 2nd round, who many people think outplayed Mahommes in the Super Bowl last year. Philly has gotten better every year he's been their QB, going 34-22-1 in the regular season and 3-1 in the playoffs, with the aforementioned SB appearance.

In hindsight, GB should have stayed where they were in 2020...drafted Hurts with their 1st rounder...and kept our 4th rounder.

Life sure is a lot clearer when wearing those 20/20 glasses.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:50 am

If you follow the College Game and are a Draft fanatic, you knew. Plain as driven snow.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:56 am

Hindsight is always easy. Which is why I don't love playing those games. If everyone knew that Hurts was going to be as good as he was, many teams would have drafted him a lot sooner.

But that wasn't the point I was getting at. It is simply wondering how our franchise would look today if they would have given Rodgers all the players that he needed vs planned for the future.
Would we have went through the hell that we did in 21 and 22 if they didn't take Love in 20?
And this is not a knock on Love. This is just wondering how much differently we would be today had they not made the move.

-2 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:10 am

I understand that. I only brought it up because I remember people losing their minds when King was picked over Watt, yet I don't think I've ever heard a peep about not drafting Hurts when he was available. Also, if everyone knew how good Watts was going to be, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did either. Such is the NFL draft

As far as your point, I was made to understand that GB did want to move up to get Jefferson, but couldn't make the deal. So they probably would have had to settle for someone like Higgins. I'm not sure that would have been enough, but we'll never know unfortunately.

As far as DA17, it seems like '21 was going to be his last year in GB regardless. He made it pretty clear he wanted to play closer to home after 8 years in GB.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:32 pm

Stockholder was pushing him for the second round.

-2 points
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NickPerry's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:37 pm

Matt Lafleur wouldn't know what to do with Hurts. He needed someone who had been in the NFL for 15 years who was one of the greatest ever and that HOF worthy WR. Like RC said mentioned, had Gute taken Jefferson holy shit!!

OR, if Gute had taken Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman, I think we have that same conversation. Adams and any one of those 3 would have been enough to get it done IMO.

I STILL get pissed when I watch TJ Watt play. But I don't even blame Ted Thompson for that one anyone. Ted was pretty damn sick by that time. That was ALL Murphy...Fricken Putz!

-2 points
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stockholder's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:12 pm

I say it was Gute- And the only reason they didn't can him.
When Rodgers wanted them too.
Was because he threaten to tell all, behind those closed doors.

1 points
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White92's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:32 pm

You nailed it man. The GM set this all in motion by showing he was the smartest guy in the room with the Ryan Pace-esq move of trading up for a questionable talent. Only thing is this move was worse since the Packers already had a HOF QB and were only a piece of two from winning it all. Oh what might have been..

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:01 am

Pin the tail on the Donkey, you win the game. The 2020 draft said we're not playing for the gold, but walking backward. The 2021 draft just added RAS to the pudding and put a nail in the coffin. Davante gave them his ultimatum, was spurned and eventually went along for"The Last Waltz." Rodgers knew the game was up when LaFleur kept his guy as the Sp Teams coach.

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:03 am

I will say that the the biggest fault that LaFleur has is keeping coaches too long. He did with the Special teams coach, and now with Barry. Loyalty is his biggest fault at this time.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:34 pm

And calling an All Go route tree on 3rd and One.

0 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

November 03, 2023 at 05:22 pm

Retaining coaches too long certainly does seem to be a problem, but there is also a problem with his initial picks as coaches as well.

2 points
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Guam's picture

November 03, 2023 at 01:05 pm

Re: LaFleur

RCP, you are correct that much has befallen LaFleur this year that is beyond his control. However LaFleur is entirely responsible for Mennenga, Drayton, Butkus and Barry. LeFleur is primarily responsible for several years of inability to make in-game adjustments, even with Rodgers at the helm. LeFleur bears responsibility for the ridiculous patched up O-line in the NFCCG when other, better options were available.

I can't give LaFleur a pass just because this year bad luck has come in bunches. He has too much errant history to suggest this year is a one-off problem.

6 points
6
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croatpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:51 am

Welcome to the club Nick!

As I can recolect Coldworld was the first who put some serious doubts in MLF (and other coaches by his choice) as even good coach. He is bad men evaluator for sure. And his soft way of "coaching" did not suite well for NFL. Nobody wants person who will constantly shout to players and producing fear in players. The best way to navigate through the adversity is to show that you held everybody accountable for their work and if players or coaches under him shows zero accountability for the results of their work they should warm the bench or be fired.

We know now from short history of him how he is defending people who are not good at their position. He makes changes only when he is pushed to. The latest example is Raheed Walker at LT. While Nyman was not perfect at LT Packers was at least scored points when he was in the line.

MLF is afraid of changes. That shows he is not sure in his ability to coach. The best defense for himself is to have coaches worse than he is so he can find excuse for bad results...

2 points
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Minniman's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:43 pm

Agree Nick,

The Rasul Douglas event should be the justification here - it's your personal standard, not some misguided team strategy.

In the same way that teams fiddle with snap counts of players on the verge of achieving a contract bonus metric, players don't owe one team to perform badly........ their next potential employer is watching!

1 points
1
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Minniman's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:46 pm

Addit: we only need to look at the wisdom of lombardi -

"Watch your actions, they become your habits. Watch your habits, they become your character."

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:03 pm

That's right NP. We don't need to try to tank they are doing a good enough job all on their own and then let's get Harrison. It'll be like getting Lofton except we have a whole lot better team this time. Add a couple OL and we're good. Assuming we have a different coaching staff but even they probably couldn't screw that up.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:37 pm

Harrison my friend. I finally realized NP that just like the players on the field and eapecially the. @_$##@ coaches, this team ,they're taking half measures all the time. Players look frozen, hesitant, entire staff coaching not to lose. Safe obvious drafting, usually for the most pressing need , nearly all the time because we go for later round values that didn't pan out from earlier years. never BPA blah, blah ,blah.

So I say! Why don't we do things a little differently? Let's take a shot, show we're all in. Go with love. Get him the next in my opinion, Star WR, a Lofton. A Sharpe would be nice too. And of course we need offensive lineman desperately. But above all, if we do those things with a new coach...

So throw all the players out there the rest of the way and let it rip. I've had enough of this passive aggressive approach to getting the team going,. Solve the obvious problem , the one staring us all in the face. This team needs a new identity and a bold approach. No more half measures. Besides what are the odds of us screwing up a top three pic like Mandarich.
Don't need to remind anybody that he was supposed to be the monster offensive lineman we needed.

1 points
1
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vin0770's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:23 pm

I think they’re a lock. After the last three games is there another team in the NFL that is playing worse? I think the Cardinals would kill them now with just the effort they play with.

0 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:22 pm

Think so as well, but hate to even think it. Rams, Giants and a totally out of the blue win somewhere, so I struggle to see that, so that's 5-12.

0 points
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Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:40 am

This isn't the first time i heard of tanking this season.

Here's the thing......

How did we get to this point?
How did we get here?
**************

First...The BOD's have to force Murphy to do his job, by dismissing Thompson of his duties.
Murphy then puts himself large and in charge in 2018 , even changing the Packers bylaws to empower himself
Power that the General Manager should have.
After 11 years, he now, first discovers silo's?
Impressive.

So Murphy wants to hire Russ Ball as GM. But McCarthy doesn't like it, So Murphy then hires Gute.
Murphy couldn't stand up to McCarthy?
Who runs the Packers, the head coach?
Then.....they fire McCarthy during the season.
But not after Murphy secretly gave McCarthy another year on his contract.
A going away gift?

Then Murphy promotes Gute, doesn't give him full GM powers, puts training wheels on him.
Murphy then hires MLF, Murphy introduces MLF for about 11 minutes to the media, then lets Gute speak for about 34 seconds.

Then you have all kinds of drama and dissension for a couple years under the watch of Murphy/Gute.
They give up on the 2020 team one win away from the Super Bowl and trade up and draft a bench QB for a few years down the road.
When asked back in 2020....Gute replied that the Jordan Love move was made in the best interest of the future of the Green Bay Packers.

Hmm....interesting.

So where are we today.....?
Losing to bad teams.
No Rodgers to blame for all the Packers management miscues.
6th worst record in the league.
A 17 week training camp for the offense, otherwise referred to as the 2023 season

In the 6th season, of Murphy and Gute running this team, this is where we are?

We are discussing tanking the season?
Some are talking about getting a new QB?

A new QB...what have the Packers been doing for over 3 seasons?
I thought they were preparing a new QB.
Isn't that why we drafted him #1?

Maybe it's time we get new leadership in Green Bay starting with a new President.
It's fairly evident the Green Bay Packer train has been driven off the tracks.

This obviously isn't working
Am i the only one who see's that?

20 points
20
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fthisJack's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:17 am

I see it and I think the Packers could be a lot better if the coaching staffs on both sides of the ball were in the unemployment lines next year. The talent...especially on defense is there. Barry is not the guy to bring out the best in them with his soft scheme. LaFleur is in way over his head as we can see now that Rodgers is no longer running the offense. Start from scratch next year and it couldn't possibly be any worse than this shot show.

4 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:34 am

I agree with the defensive coaches need to be gone. They needed to not be returned this year. That to me is the biggest fault of LaFleur. He thought having some consistency with the defensive staff would make them better. He just didn't take into account that the defensive staff isn't good.

But I have to ask, how many coaches do you truly believe would be be successful with this offense and the circumstances they have been dealt with?

0 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:45 am

How many? All it takes is one.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:55 am

It does only take one. But who is the one?

1 points
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Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:43 pm

Maybe the issue is roster building.

Look at the one who created this circumstance.

I'm not absolving MLF, but....

How many play callers would want to deal with this raw and inexperienced offense?

0 points
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croatpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:46 am

"... how many coaches do you truly believe would be be successful with this offense and the circumstances they have been dealt with?"

I can think few names for HC that might be better with this team!

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:55 am

Who?

0 points
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BAMABADGER's picture

November 03, 2023 at 01:41 pm

"But I have to ask, how many coaches do you truly believe would be be successful with this offense and the circumstances they have been dealt with?"

After 7 games you would expect the HC (who also calls the offensive plays and manages the coaching staff) to lead this team and show developmental progress after you know who left. Week after week this team has fundamentally regressed not improved, that is a strong indication of ineffective leadership/coaching.

1 points
1
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KenEllis's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:54 am

Nah, you're not the only one to notice the organisational dysfunction that Rodgers, Davante, Bakh, and Aaron Jones covered up for so many years (just a coincidence that all were selected by Gutey's predecessor).

13 years and counting since the last Super Bowl appearance.

1 Super Bowl appearance in last 25 years with Hall of Famers at QB for every one of those seasons.

Time for new blood in the front office.

7 points
7
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Green Bay Shareholder's picture

November 03, 2023 at 12:42 pm

Excellent analysis Sir - the only shocking thing is that so many people couldn't sniff this coming 2 years ago, especially those at the upper levels drawing million dollar salaries that should be trying to prevent this kind of season. Of course when everyone still gets the same paycheck regardless of out come with what seems very little accountability, it is easy to see how an "Empty Cupboard" develops especially after the Golden Goose leaves. Companies typically don't develop structural issues from the bottom up.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:44 pm

The "upper level" people served this Bad medicine Show on a silver platter.

0 points
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White92's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:39 pm

Great recap

0 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:45 am

I don’t think it’s a choice thing. At this point , which teams are we supposed to beat? We are the easy W everyone else has circled on their calendar.
If we’re only going to win one more game , let’s hope it’s against the Bears.

4 points
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Since'75's picture

November 03, 2023 at 06:58 am

Yes!!...our 70's and 80's Packer slogan....Just beat the Bears

Yea....we remember that don't we Since? 😆

2 points
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stockholder's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:09 am

Tanking is a scandal. It’s the closes thing to game fixing.
And Gute should be removed as GM for his latest move.
The packer players were crying when Rusal Douglass
Got traded. Not only did this move effect the team chemistry.
It opened the doors for more poor play.
And made MLFs job that much harder,
Per trying to keep the team focused.
This GM has put all his eggs in one basket.
The youth movement works if your cheap.
But the quality of play usually shows up in the lost column.

We shouldn’t have to be patient. For anyone.
Everyone said this was a talented team.
Yet the odds makers knew different.
The integrity of the packers is the issue here.
From Re-Load to Rebuild to disaster.
It can only mean one thing. People must be fired.

-4 points
7
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jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:15 am

When I draw up a team's depth chart, I always try to replace a dependable starter, who bagged Ten INTs over the past two years and insert a greenhorn from round seven and make believe we're better. Jaire is playing injured and Stokes is playing the role of King in the latest infirmary soap opera. OK, Gutedkunst, where is your dominant, attacking defense you dumped Eight one picks into? Who replaced Bulaga. Who was the #11 pick, heir apparent for Bhak? Where is Amari Rodgers "playing" now?

0 points
2
2
stockholder's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:38 am

Your right-
Nobody can predict Gutey's drafts.
Even the cheesehead draft guide is better.
And when it comes to that crystal ball.
We expect the player to be coached up.

-3 points
2
5
jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:44 am

Or Cut.

0 points
2
2
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:20 am

"Should the Packers tank their season? "

The coaches and players never will. The front office? They chose not to. If they chose to we would have seen other players being shipped out besides Douglas. We would have seen them get rid of Jones, Jenkins, Clark, Smith, Campbell, Alexander, etc. They made one move late in the process. They know this is not a super bowl team, so they decided to make a move to try and help them in the future.

While I still don't like the move of getting rid of Douglas, its a move that in the broad picture makes sense. They got a 3rd round pick which can be used to move up in the 1st or 2nd round, or they can keep it. They keep the pick and they will have roughly 5 picks in the top 90, if they don't trade them. They could very well have 6 picks in the top 100 when all said and done. And in terms of value I don't think they have gotten better value for a player then they did with Douglas. They signed him off another teams PS and turned him into a 3rd round pick. It just shows how good Douglas was in GB.

these final 10 games will tell us a lot about the players on this team. It will tell us what positions they need to look to upgrade in the offseason, and what positions they are pretty good at.

When the draft comes, imo they need to take the best player available regardless of position. If its QB, WR, OT, DL, CB, S don't care. Take the best player available. Right now IMO, they need to look at OT and RB as 2 positions on offense that they have to improve in the draft. Right now who knows what will happen with Bakhtiari. I could see them potentially try and trade him, resign him, or cut him (not sure all the salary ramifications for any of those moves). But even if they brought him back, they need another OT. They could then move Tom inside if they wanted. RB they have to upgrade over Dillon. I like Dillon but he has become a 1 trick pony. He isn't fast enough to get to the edge and isn't enough of a sledge hammer to make people miss. They need an upgrade there especially with speed.
I would not hesitate to take one of the top WR's either. If they have a chance at Harrison or even Coleman I take them. Harrison is a generational type of WR. If he is available you run the card up. Coleman if he is the BPA, you take him. Defense has a lot of needs, but until they get a new DC, it won't matter what players they get. That is the first domino that needs to fall. I really wish it would fall during the season to just see how the defenders react with a different voice leading the unit.

The most important thing for this team is to finish strong. remember last years Lions team? They started out bad, but finished strong. It gave them momentum heading into the offseason and they started out very strong this year. That is what GB needs. They need a strong finish to give them momentum heading into the offseason and for next seaason!

-5 points
2
7
dobber's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:35 am

"The coaches and players never will. The front office? They chose not to.They know this is not a super bowl team, so they decided to make a move to try and help them in the future."

They went partway. That seems to be the mindset in recent years.

The only way you'll get a coach on-board with chasing draft position is to find a way to assure them that their job is secure (and make concessions to back that up). They're the first domino to fall when a team sucks, and getting public support back for a coach that coaches/teaches a lousy team is hard to do. They know this. Even if you make that assurance, we know that assurances are fickle things.

So what do you do to "tank" without tanking your staff? We can view the Douglas trade as part of that, but if we start to see veteran starters with iffy injuries moved quickly to IR or inexplicably shuttled into timeshares that tells you something. They need to be careful, though, because many of those guys are playing for contracts, and having a reputation for treating players poorly and devaluing them on the market doesn't play well.

0 points
1
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:01 am

"So what do you do to "tank" without tanking your staff? We can view the Douglas trade as part of that, but if we start to see veteran starters with iffy injuries moved quickly to IR or inexplicably shuttled into timeshares that tells you something. They need to be careful, though, because many of those guys are playing for contracts, and having a reputation for treating players poorly and devaluing them on the market doesn't play well."

How many games does having Douglas win/lose us? I don't think it really gives us anymore wins or losses. So in the eyes of the GM, he feels its a move they can make. It doesn't make them better now by getting rid of him. But it could be a move that makes them better in the future.

The thing they need to be careful of is if they get rid of a lot people and whatnot, it will become very tough to try and bring people in here. And it will be tough for people to want to stay.

4 points
4
0
dobber's picture

November 03, 2023 at 01:52 pm

"How many games does having Douglas win/lose us"

To quote '61: they could be 2-5 with him, or 2-5 without him.

1 points
3
2
Bitternotsour's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:18 pm

Unless, and I'm spitballing here, the front office realizes that they don't need buy in from the coach on losing, because the coach is already lost.

3 points
3
0
Im Fubared's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:11 pm

BPA only works for teams who are deep and only have a hole or two. This team rebuilds with qb first.nothing is more important. Plus you dont take rbs in the early first, they are a dime a dozen.

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:37 am

No tanking the season! Period!

Love's been on the bench for 3 seasons, let him knock off the rust.

People say that rookies can come in and do better. They've been playing competitive football straight through since they were in grade school. They'll hit a wall or ledge too (and most have), in the NFL

It'd be like taking your first swing with a club at Agusta after not playing for 3 years. You may have practiced, but you didn't have any pressure and weren't playing against the best in the world.

3 points
4
1
SweetPotatoGB's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:45 am

Personally, I don’t believe in tanking. To me, the losses they get in terms of morale, mindset, and effort are not worth whatever rewards are on the other side. As you stated, those rewards aren’t guaranteed to be successful for the team. I do agree that the team would be more fun and interesting to watch if they were more experimental. I haven’t yet called for Lafluer to be fired, but if it turns out he’s been deliberately making the Packers lose I will immediately call for his termination.

5 points
5
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:55 am

McCarthy's first season he pushed them to finish 8-8. You always Play to Win. Phase One in 2024 is dumping the guy who patched this squad together and let Murphy take the Emeritus job.

2 points
3
1
SweetPotatoGB's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:34 am

I hear you there. It doesn't appear to me that Brian's job is at risk right now. If he fails to bring in good players in 2024 I would expect his job to be in jeopardy. I completely understand when fans want him out, but he's there for at least one more year. I'd be shocked if they fire Brian before next year's draft, but anything can happen. For now, I'm not calling for him to be fired, I'm calling for him to get us some good guys going into next year. If he fails to do that, I don't see how he can retain his job in Green Bay...Through all of this, I think it's important to support the guys on the field each week, even when they aren't playing well. Go Pack Go!

0 points
1
1
jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:47 pm

No More Years !

-1 points
0
1
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:33 pm

@ SPPGB
I haven't seem anyone say MLF is deliberately 'making the Packers lose'.
The general concern is that he is in over his head-the game moves too quickly, he cannot seem to respond with adjustments, cannot seem to hold coaches/players accountable.
These are serious deficiencies and most are not really correctable.

1 points
1
0
SweetPotatoGB's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:59 pm

I only meant that if that were to surface, I’d immediately want Lafluer fired. I don’t believe he’s actually tanking the team.

1 points
1
0
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:11 pm

@ SPGB:
Sorry, but you strike me as a person working for the FO

0 points
0
0
SweetPotatoGB's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:17 pm

Haha 😂 the conspiracy!

0 points
0
0
Boneman's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:46 am

First off can we all agree that Rasul wasn't, isn't the guy that the defense can't do without? Please. We were losing and looking bad with him. That said, we don't know the real reason why he was shipped out. My speculation is that he was the clubhouse leader who may not have been preaching the party line. If he was clashing with management (aka Joe Barry) the organization had no choice but to get rid of him or possibly face a mutiny. This is what Gute was hinting at when he kept saying the team was committed to "staying with the process". Tanking is fan speak for being losers. It's easier to say we're tanking than admitting our team is just crappy. Are we tanking (crappy)? The answer is yes, but that is an admission, not a strategy.

2 points
4
2
mrtundra's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:20 am

I am betting that Rasul tears it up in Buffalo. Look at Oren Burks, in SF. Everyone hated him here, and now, he is playing really well for the 49ers.

5 points
5
0
dobber's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:38 am

He's playing in a much different system with better players and a much more aggressive mindset.

That said, he's only played about 1/3 of the defensive snaps, and mostly to cover for injuries. He's back on the bench now.

5 points
5
0
jannes bjornson's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:04 am

Four one picks playing the 4-3 in front of him. He is playing SLB to cover TEs. Warner and Greenlaw do most of the damage in the 4-2 sets.

0 points
1
1
fthisJack's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:27 am

if Barry and Ras were clashing, they certainly got rid of the wrong guy.

7 points
7
0
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:35 pm

I actually think it is being used as a strategy.

0 points
0
0
CheesedDeadHead's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:54 am

The sad part is that I don’t think anyone on the Packers is trying to tank.

This is the result of them trying to win.

Exposed, dysfunctional and horribly inept.

Clean House!

3 points
3
0
mrtundra's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:22 am

I think much of it is due to the coaching staff. Start the shake ups there.

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:00 am

I don't believe in tanking especially this early in the season. Any responsible organization cannot and hopefully would not risk their players health for the next 10 games by telling them to not play their best. At the NFL level a player can't be playing at a 90% or 80% level against opponents who are giving 100% on every play.
That will get players hurt and possibly end their careers. That is no way for guys like Clark, Alexander and Preston Smith to go out for example.

I'm not expecting this Packers team to turn this season around and into a playoff run but I don't want to see them give up on the field either. It's just wrong on too many levels. If they get down to the last few games and they want to put in all the young players including Clifford to see what they have that's fine. But now with 10 games to go no way.

I'd rather see the Packers send a message to the team by chucking either MLF or Barry now and letting the team know that they're not giving up and they are trying to provide coaches who can actually teach the players how to play or provide schemes that they can actually be successful with.

The problem is and has been the decision making process and the resulting decisions made by Murphy and Gute since 2018. First the silos, then the decision to hire MLF, then Gute's drafting and then MLF's coaching hires and in game decisions. The competence level is what concerns me the most especially since I don't believe that MM will make any changes prior to his retirement. Yes, it's possible that they will fire Barry at the end of the season but to what end? That does not necessarily mean they will hire a better DC. Even with a top 5 or top 10 draft pick it doesn't mean that Gute will make better draft selections.

There are numerous systemic issues with the Packers organization that have been exposed during the 2023 season so far. I'm still hoping that this team can come together this season and at leastimporve to the point where they provide some hope for 2024. That's why I'm against tanking. Don't give up on the players yet. Instead find ways to help them play better and improve themselves. That's what professionals do. That's what they are paid to do. Do the right things and the results will come even if it takes time. But try for and play for incremental improvements on a game by game, week by week basis. That is what I hope/expect the Packers as an organization would be trying to do. I'm just not very confident that the FO or coaching staff are up to the task. Thanks, Since '61

5 points
7
2
Razer's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:39 am

...The problem is and has been the decision making process and the resulting decisions made by Murphy and Gute since 2018. First the silos, then the decision to hire MLF, then Gute's drafting and then MLF's coaching hires and in game decisions. The competence level is what concerns me the most especially since I don't believe that MM will make any changes prior to his retirement....

This is a great summary of the problem facing the Packers going forward. All good organizations need great leadership to achieve success. As Since 61 points out, the Packers have more incompetence above the players that needs to be fixed than in that locker room. It will be slow coming out of this confusion. Winter is coming.

3 points
3
0
croatpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 12:15 pm

I agree Since with your main conclusion. For me it was very clear that new scheme by M. WANI Murphy will produce chaos. And chaos we have!

Good post as almost always!

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:41 pm

Good to hear from you as always Croat. I hope that all is well for you. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:15 pm

Informed Packer fans are aware of the corrosive effects of MM's regime but the general football-loving public and most pundits are not well-informed.
I guess it would be too much to ask GB beat reporter, Matt Schneidman of the Athletic to do a little real reporting. Dianna Russini (new to the Athletic) is fresh from ESPN and very sharp; she was first to report about what really happened to Aaron when he went down ( LT Duane Brown cut-blocked/Aaron held the ball, ignored the play-call). I think she and her fellow reporters were already interviewing Bakhtiari while Rodgers was in surgery.
Most of you likely know this, but if not-Dave spilled the beans and said AR did not like cut-blocks because they inhibited his desire to
'improvise'-lol. Later, when asked, Rodgers had to do some high-speed deflection-'I like cut-blocks'-'Dave just can't do them well'-lol.

Anyway, what a story the MM take-over would be.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:04 am

A team that has scored less than 20 points off schemed plays doesn’t have to try to tank. We are watching one of the worst coaching staffs imaginable get exposed cruelly. We can’t make changes, we apparently can’t prepare effectively at the individual or group level and we have been tactically whipped.

We are seeing why our former rosters never made it to a Super Bowl in maddening fashions. His name is LaFleur. Until he goes, no one and nothing much progresses.

9 points
10
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:08 am

Who do you want to replace LaFleur with?

What coach would take this current roster and put them in the playoffs this season?

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:32 am

I want to replace the culture, attitudes … not doing anything with him this year so we have nothing to lose but the chance to start resetting expectations and approach. I’m fine with Bissacia.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:37 am

Ok, thats fine. But who would take this current team and put them into the playoffs?

-3 points
0
3
crayzpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:01 am

RCP- You are asking CW the wrong question. The right question is who could take this current team and show improvement each week? Who would show an obvious preparedness, attitude, discipline and professionalism?
The answer is? Well, I will let CW answer it. Unless Bissacia is his answer.
But the way this team is right now? Nobody takes this team to the playoffs. But again, you're asking the wrong question based on the actual state of circumstances this team finds itself in.

5 points
5
0
Coldworld's picture

November 03, 2023 at 04:38 pm

This team is a development project. I’ve never believed that we would be a contender this year. What we need to be doing us evolving as a group and getting better as individuals—development. That’s about details, fundamentals, playing the right players, letting merit earn playing time and errors lose it. LaFleur’s teams have been dreadful at any of that.

Hell, even the Bears and Vikings have got better across various players and groups despite weak rosters. We have got worse. Yes, there are many other people who could make us less bad, start turning the corner from the LaFleur culture. LaFleur is a pretend coach and it’s painfully obvious. The same failed ideas regurgitated repeatedly. Wrong coaches, poor personnel. He’s no offensive genius and he’s no leader if men to be more than they should be. The signs are everywhere now.

3 points
3
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:03 pm

Moses

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:26 am

"What coach would take this current roster and put them in the playoffs this season?"

We don't know who is the answer to that question, but at this stage we have a pretty good idea who the answer is not.

I think, IF (being the operative word) the front office is of the opinion that LaF is overmatched in this scenario and you have a guy on your staff who can start moving the needle with regard to identity (which this team really lacks) and on-field play, you make that move. That would require they really like Bisaccia and think he can do those things, though, because there are no other HC candidates in the locker room.

IF that's the case, don't languish with a coach who isn't going to develop players and identity just for the sake of appearances or propriety. Don't allow players to continue to play poorly or without enthusiasm--those attitudes take hold and become hard to root out. IF you're sure LaF ain't that guy, you make the change, set a mandate for the interim WRT clear objectives for the remainder of the season, and prepare for an off-season search.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:51 am

My biggest issue with people and a lot are on this website is that they have 0 patience. They expect to be in the super bowl every season and if they aren't, they want people's heads. That isn't how the real world works.

We are what 7 games into a season without having a HOF QB leading us. 7 games in with a first time starting QB, an offense that has had to deal with a rash of injuries, and inexperience, and immediately people are wanting to get rid of LaFleur, because the offense has been very bad, and they have a 2-5 record. They don't want the reasons why they have been bad, only want someone to blame.

But since we are in a fire everyone world, especially on this site. I am just proposing the this. If you want LaFleur Fired, or Gutey Fired, Or Barry Fired, Or Murphy Fired, please explain why they should be fired, who you want to be hired in their place and why they would do better with who the current person in that position.

I am not saying LaFleur is the best coach in the league. And all I keep seeing is LaFleur's 3 seasons in a row of 13 wins are flukes and are only because of Rodgers. Ok that's fine if you want to give Rodgers all the credit for those wins. But then let me ask this question. IF Rodgers was the only reason why they won 13 games those 3 seasons, why didn't they always win 13 games before LaFleur? Why is it that with Rodgers pre LaFleur they only had 1 season of 13 or more games won?

Can we at least give LaFleur some credit. He was the HC of 3 seasons of 13 wins. Sorry but you don't win 13 games 3 seasons in a row being a bad coach.

Please go ahead and downvote the shit out of this because its against the narrative.

-4 points
1
5
SweetPotatoGB's picture

November 03, 2023 at 01:18 pm

Nothing wrong with your perspective. Obviously, there can be blame pointed at everyone in Green Bay, and they will go over it all in January to see who they need to move. I actually like that the Packers let things play out a little bit before they make big changes in coaching, etc. The expiration date on certain things has definitely seemed to have arrived this year, and I do expect a slightly different coaching staff next year. How that plays out is anyone's guess.

1 points
1
0
Dragon5's picture

November 03, 2023 at 01:27 pm

1) No worries about social media voting...therein lies your problem from the start. When you get riled up about up/down votes you give away your control to others...I don't know you, they don't know you...why even preface it? Speak your mind--but be prepared to back it up.

2) 13-3s were not just Rodgers covering up warts; the NFC North was truly pathetic outside of 1265 Lombardi Ave

3) Management is several years in to...
a) establish a culture (soft--year after year we can't even tackle)
b) build via drafts / FAs / trades (GM execution well below par)
c) a HC that has wilted in EVERY big test (NFCCs)

4 points
4
0
Bitternotsour's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:27 pm

I don't want LaFleur fired mid-season. Mostly because I don't want Mark Murphy choosing a new coach. I don't want Murphy near any personnel decisions regarding football operations ever again.

I don't care if that means MLF survives thru Murphy's forced retirement.

Downvotes are immaterial. Take a look at Stockholders history. He posts 40 times a day.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

November 03, 2023 at 04:51 pm

5 years is patience. LaFleur had played a big part in losing in the playoffs either through poor tactics, adjustments or through those of His hires. Drayton, the switcheroo, others. His offense last year was pathetically impotent and predictable and also unable to evolve. He’s worse this year. His tactical failings are being brutally exposed.

What does LaFleur bring to this team that one might want? What’s his salient area that warrants retention? After 5 years, none of us know of one. Patience? He’s failed the test and (6years is more than long enough for a guy who could t win with Rodgers and the good rosters we had.

How about you give a positive reading why any team should hire or retain LaFleur? If you can’t after 5 years and riding Rodgers coat tails as a lead weight, the. It kind of says it all.

2 points
2
0
BruceC1960's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:07 am

Haven’t bought in to the Bisaccia love yet. Are special teams really any better? How Dallin Leavitt keeps his roster spot is odd. Wouldn’t you rather have another young safety who has a chance at getting some snaps some day?
Has Dallin made a significant special teams play since he got to Green Bay?

1 points
2
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:39 am

It is a good question I like him, but it is a good question.

I don't know the nuances about special teams play and who is doing their job well or not, but Leavitt seems to be one of those glue guys type? I just don't know, how good he is or isn't to be honest

1 points
1
0
croatpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 12:19 pm

Well, ST squad is much better. Yes, they are not scoring points (that would be offensive task!), but they are not the bottom in the league any more. At the moment they are around middle pack. And anyone who believes in wonder sticks that can turn things after years of inadequacy lives in fantasy.

1 points
1
0
dblbogey's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:48 am

Vince Lombardi.

2 points
2
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:53 am

What coach is currently alive that would do more with this current group?

-1 points
1
2
stockholder's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:29 pm

If MLF gets fired early- Gutey job is safe.
Because he gets to hire the next coach.
And that is Gutes next move.
As everyone predicted -

1 points
2
1
packerbackerjim's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:05 am

I would settle for competent play on both sides of the ball, record be damned.

5 points
5
0
Razer's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:29 am

Restore a little hope in both the players AND coaching for sure. I don't want to get to season's end and have the team still playing poor ball or worse yet giving up. If we can't get some evidence of team play I hope that we don't retain any of this coaching staff

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:50 am

Exactly packerbackerjim - play good solid football and I can accept whatever the record is. But I cannot accept on going and repeated incompetence. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
crayzpackfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:08 am

61 - Exactly. Even the 8-8 Lynn Dickey teams were fun as hell to watch. We all knew what they were and were not. One thing for sure is, they weren't inept, boring, or lacking effort like the current state of our team.

3 points
3
0
TarynsEyes's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:12 am

This team has volunteered for the dunk tank and every team on the schedule is Missy.

https://youtu.be/SzJlVp5fKKY?si=jotxvLKEriG3Ox_6&t=60

5 points
6
1
Razer's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:23 am

Can't disagree with most of you. I doubt that this is a blatant "tanking" but trading away one of your better and more consistent players on a thinning defense isn't helping our "exceptionally" young team. When Gutekunst used the phrase "our focused is on beating the Rams this weekend" during his Rasul Douglas presser, I saw just how greasy things are in these front offices. This trade, while yielding a 3rd round draft pick did more to damage this team and that locker room than any other action. As much as I don't think Matt Lafleur is the guy, I feel for him. Give him a room full of babies then when things are getting bad take away one of his glue guys to mess up a somewhat stable part of his team. I can imagine what that conversation went like - if it even occurred. A tank by any other name.

3 points
5
2
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:18 am

"Tanking' offers protection/cover of the FO for the rest of the season. It's a cynical, cowardly move.
It protects them from national media criticism/fan concern, etc.

2 points
3
1
ricky's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:28 am

High draft picks do not automatically mean a player is going to change the trajectory of a franchise. Just ask Arizona. Or SF, who traded a boatload of picks so they could move up and pick Trey Lance. Or the Bears, who did the same with the franchise saving Mitchell Trubisky. And yes, Harrison may be a "generational talent". But if the QB isn't accurate, or the offensive game plan is unimaginative and predictable, then he'd be another wasted pick. Sometimes it works. Much more often, it doesn't.

2 points
3
1
mrtundra's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:31 am

What would we be tanking for? Better draft picks? We will never see the #1, nor the #2 spot, in the draft. So, if you are thinking we can draft Caleb Williams or Marvin Harrison, Jr., you'd better think again.

2 points
2
0
dblbogey's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:52 am

2 QB's and Harrison will be the first 3 players picked, so yes, we do have a shot at one of them. Since the Packers are tanking, I'll hope they keep losing, get one of those 3 picks, fire Barry and most of the coaching staff and start over next year.

-1 points
1
2
Coach Cleve Steamer's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:39 am

Where has all the positivity gone? RELAXING is the way forward. Trust the breathing. Trust the quiet mind that accepts all things. Sweet relaxation.

0 points
3
3
dblbogey's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:53 am

Groovy.

1 points
2
1
LeotisHarris's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:43 am

No tanks.

5 points
5
0
Since'61's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:52 am

Cookie for Leotis. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
whysoserious's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:02 am

I agree with a lot of previous commentors, we don't have to tank. The Packers are just that bad and probably aren't going to get better. I had hope when the season started that they would be fun to watch and be a roller coaster in the win loss department. That changed for me leading up to the Broncos game. I just felt like they didn't have much of a shot to a team that was playing horribly at the time and now every week it seems like it would be an upset for them to win. Worse than the losing though is seeing nothing that would give you hope that it can change or even be fun to watch.

Side note: I was looking forward to seeing what Love was going to be like. I didn't know if he would be good or bad or just average. What i have learned is he is just a guy so far. Not overly accurate (could be the route running) especially on deep passes and really haven't seen anything that made me go "wow, this guy is going to be good". Contrary to that, I watched Levis for the Titans last night, and while he made some bad mistakes he had a lot plays that made me go "wow, this guy is goin to be good". Time will tell but so far i just haven't seen it with Love.

3 points
3
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NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:09 am

@WSS_
I would ask these questions re: Levis:
-how does his O-line function?
-are his receivers well-coached?
-Are his coaches competent?

We just can't evaluate a QB in a vacuum. Love has zero support.

5 points
5
0
RCPackerFan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:10 am

"I watched Levis for the Titans last night, and while he made some bad mistakes he had a lot plays that made me go "wow, this guy is goin to be good". Time will tell but so far i just haven't seen it with Love."

Completely agree about Levis. He has some natural abilities that can't be matched by many.
But one major thing that Levis has going for him that Love does not is he has veterans to help support him. Hopkins has more experience then all the Packers WR's combined. Packers have 9 years experience among the 6 WR's on the roster. Hopkins has been in the NFL 10 years.
Watching Levis there were moments when he basically just threw it up to Hopkins. Currently Love doesn't have anyone that he can do that with.
That is one major difference that stood out to me in comparing the 2.

3 points
3
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 03, 2023 at 12:46 pm

"Watching Levis there were moments when he basically just threw it up to Hopkins. Currently Love doesn't have anyone that he can do that with. That is one major difference that stood out to me in comparing the 2."

Difference #2. Being able to hand off to Derrick Henry.

4 points
4
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Garylporter1962's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:46 pm

We have Aaron Jones so that cancels out your number 2.

-3 points
0
3
13TimeChamps's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:09 pm

I didn't think this needed explaining but, I was referring to the comparison of Levis and Love this year.

This year, Henry has rushed the ball 137 times for 601 yards.
This year, Jones has rushed the ball 29 times for 123 yards.

Jones, being injured most of the year, has not had the same impact on Love's year as Henry has had on Levis. I hope that clears it up for you.

So, no, it doesn't cancel out my number 2.

3 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

November 03, 2023 at 04:42 pm

But not the OL behind which they run

1 points
1
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TxFred's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:29 am

MLF & staff cannot coach & develop this team.

MLF &staff will not coach & develop this team.

If EITHER is correct that is grounds for termination!

On the job training the norm, then why have assistants??

4 points
5
1
NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:41 am

I think there is a bit a magical thinking among fans about year 2025. I hear over and over that fans are willing to wait obediently for an entire two years until the day Murphy finally retires.
Then, poof!- a competent, authoritative GM/HC will suddenly appear on the scene and like a super-hero will make things right again.
-He will be competent
-He will hold players accountable
-He will...

We forget that the current regime will likely contaminate this process. Some fellas will want to remain., Gute, Ball?, some may elbow their
way onto the board-Murphy ? (protecting Titletown interests). These guys are political operators and will likely need to be excised by some muscle.

5 points
5
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beerandbrats's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:42 am

Outstanding write up Jonathan! Stop worrying about winning or losing because we're not going anywhere this year!

Play everybody (except for newman)! Get these young players (backups) on the field to see if they can play. We'll never know what we have sitting on the bench unless we put them in the game. If they aren't contributing, get rid of them!

Tanking is wrong but there is nothing wrong with playing rookies to find out if they can contribute or not.

3 points
3
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NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:03 am

@B&B-
How can the 'rookies be properly and cleanly evaluated' when they are hampered by poor coaching, (lack of teaching re: fundamentals-foot-work, proper route-running, tackling and so on).
How can Love be properly evaluated when he's running for his life (ineffectual O-line), is throwing to guys who aren't taught to route run, contest the ball & drop too many balls & so on.)
The FO is passing the buck again by not fundamentally holding coaches accountable for insisting on improvement. I don't think the majority of these coaches are even qualified-Butkus, Steno, Vrabel, Barry, MLF and more.

2 points
2
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Packers1985's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:47 am

While i agree with most of what you have said.
"How can Love be properly evaluated when he's running for his life". This i dont agree with this according to some stats about the pressures. Though our Oline is very bad in terms of run blocking they were decent in terms of pass protection.

The offensive line hasn’t been great, especially the last handful of games, but PFF has judged Love to be under pressure on 29.8 percent of his dropbacks. Of 32 quarterbacks who’ve faced at least 50 pressures, that’s the fourth-lowest in the league.

0 points
0
0
rememberWhitehurst's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:44 am

The concept of tanking implies some level of ability to win that is not being fully pursued. I'm not sure that ability exists.

5 points
5
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Tundraboy's picture

November 03, 2023 at 08:00 pm

Lmao, exactly.

0 points
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NFLfan's picture

November 03, 2023 at 09:54 am

'Tanking' allows Murphy/Gute protection from valid critiques by national media, fans. 'Oh, GB is not responsible for the quality of their play/coaching', yada yada-they're in tank mode for the next 10 games.

As another witty poster said-'It's time for Operation CYA'

0 points
0
0
Cotreq's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:20 am

Not a bad idea , treat the whole season like pre season. Play those deep on the bench and see what's there. Put the studs on limited play count and work on getting everyone healthy. If a late third round was good enough for Rasul then 4-5 wins should be what we strive for in the way of improving our draft picks. I don't like it but I don't like what we're putting on the field now..so why not ?

2 points
2
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Dragon5's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:21 am

A president that presides over the wrong things
A GM that drafts poorly
A HC who is a poor judge of talent (coaches)
A HC who cannot plan, nor make in-game adjustments
A HC who does not inspire / lead men
Assistant coaches who can't teach
Players who can't execute

Yes that's a trainwreck. Problem is, we're in an undesirable climate, small market draft & develop team. It all becomes a catch 22 when the talent is not drafted and developed. Since'61 mentioned a year or two ago "rats leaving a sinking ship." It's a shame that 3RG (aka 3rd Round Gute) shipped out a player that wanted to be here--leadership on defense is something we've been missing since the arrival of Smith Bros & Amos of '18 -- 5 years ago--last semblance of it that I can recall. Don't be surprised to see outspoken peeps like Jaire want out next...established vets avoid rebuilds. We now have to endure the natural progression of losing as the decay eats away from the inside--have to crash & burn to force change and renew.

7 points
7
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Spanky65's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:52 am

I cannot believe that we are seeing articles like this one being posted
Have we forgotten what our Legendary Coach who put Green Bay, WI
on the map once said :

“Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing,”

But then again The Three Stooges were not in charge
in the 60's like they are today

3 points
3
0
Ferrari-Driver's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:55 am

Right now the last thing I want to see is players trying to lose games. We are doing too much losing at the present time and it's too easy for losing to become a way of life.

1 points
1
0
BruceC1960's picture

November 03, 2023 at 10:57 am

Won’t the tank be fun on the CHTV forum?
Option 1) Packers continue to struggle and lose most/all of their remaining games. We get to hear how bad Love, Watson ant etc are. How stupid MLF, Gutey and Murphy are.
Option 2) Packers win a few games in the next 10. These guys are too dumb to even tank correctly.
Can’t wait. Should be an interesting winter on CHTV forum.

2 points
2
0
Qoojo's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:05 am

Quite possibly the dumbest question ever asked here.

No.

- MLF and JB need to go. These guys are playing tic-tac-toe in a chess league.
- MM needs to stay in his lane and let Gute pick his HC

0 points
2
2
Spanky65's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:21 am

I cannot believe that we are seeing articles like this one being posted
Have we forgotten what our Legendary Coach who put Green Bay, WI
on the map once said :

“Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing,”

But then again The Three Stooges were not in charge
in the 60's like they are today

2 points
2
0
pantz_bURp's picture

November 03, 2023 at 11:33 am

Tank you Packers, tank you very much. 😁

My thoughts, HCs play the short game and GMs play the mid to long game.

As stated earlier, I am going to enjoy (the best I can) this season since it will play into any decisions for the next several plus seasons which will be very intriguing.

*#12 (now #8) is no longer on the roster, but if you feel the need to constantly go back and discuss him, do so. Keep in mind however his last season play, attitude and salary ramifications to the roster and most current injury. Then, vacillate how this season might have played out with him on the team. How could that affect the success and makeup of the team going forward. Then let's see and discuss the Love draft pick ad nauseam and how it affected #12 and the team. Then let's forget how drafting Love lit a much-needed fire under #12 that was equivalent to drafting a home run pick two years in a row.

*Live in the past if you want...I am excited about how this season and the next ones play out. I may not like the record but at least we needed to move on. Some are able and willing to do so. Others not able or willing to do so. But hey, if that floats your boat...have at er.

Hope floats,

Pantz

**I had a dream...Family Feud...We're Not Idiots vs Smartest Guys in the Room...it ended in a tie! Confetti was falling from the rafters and the people in attendence were doing "the wave". Great theater at least, quite entertaining. Now, back to PBS I go...

On a serious note, thinking of buying 'The Greatest Story in Sports" 4-volume Packers history book by Cliff Christl. So I must apologize, since I am going back and relearning the past of this great franchise. I apologize for my outburst. 😁

Tanking? How about a new think-TANK at HC or OC?

Life can be scary, but if you want to keep your Bob the Builder underwear clean...you look danger in the eyes...and proceed to pull those cherished underoos around your ankles and with authority, go #2. But remember lil' fellar, the job isn't finished till the paperwork is done.

-3 points
0
3
Untylu1968's picture

November 03, 2023 at 02:13 pm

High five from me, pantz!🍻
Just how many different horses can we beat to death? Can it really be considered tanking if you're just plain bad?

1 points
1
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tommynak's picture

November 03, 2023 at 03:42 pm

Hell no on tanking games, it doesn't guarantee you anything in the future. But building a losing culture is the last thing you want to do. I want to see improvements & gains throughout the remainder of this seasons and hope that comes with as many wins as possible for this team. No improvement from this point on would be an indictment on this young roster & recent draft class as not being quality NFL players and if that were the case would put us much further behind the 8 ball than you think we are. Play with pride & detail and this accountability goes to the coaching staff as well. As always "GO PACK GO" and carry the G 24/7/365.

1 points
1
0
Im Fubared's picture

November 03, 2023 at 07:19 pm

This team played there ass off and won two games agaisnt the soft part of the schedule. They are tanking without planning. One thing that is working for them.
Keep in mind, a low number doesnt mean Gutt stays pat. I say he trades back and passes on a qb for an additional pick. Hell look at a qb to back up Love later rounds. Why? If he picks a qb he is admitting he fd up. Not happening. He comes first fans come second.

0 points
0
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rodgersrules's picture

November 04, 2023 at 09:21 am

First order of business after this season is to get rid of the whole stinking cabal. Murphy, Gute, and MLF. NONE of them are actually very good at their jobs. Then do WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO to get Drake Maye. He can be another Rodgers, no joke. Big arm, and an accurate passer. Something Love will never be. Then, maybe, we can be an actual contender again in a relatively short time. Maybe.

0 points
0
0