Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Every Day is Valentine's Day
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
Valentine's Day - It's been quite a while since the Packers have had a rookie, regardless of what round drafted, come in and make an impression in training camp llke Carrington Valentine has. Every day the Round 7 selection does something impactful to stand out. His performance against the Bengals in his first real game action ( 29 snaps, 8 run defense snaps, 9 ST snaps, 21 coverage snaps, 6 targets, 2 pass breakups, 1 INT, 4 tackles) surely opened some eyes of those who were previously unaware of this young man. He followed that up with a practice-ending pick six on Monday. When asked about it after practice, Valentine said, " Your eyes never lie to you. So as long as you know your eyes are in the right place and you’re not looking at the quarterback, once you get in that consistent habit, good things happen.” Keep 'em coming...
Rasheed Walker - Upon re-watching the Bengals game, I focused in on Rasheed Walker, who manned the left tackle spot when the twos entered on the third Packers drive. Overall, he played really well, losing only one rep over the next three Packers drives when he failed to execute a really difficult reach block with the DT shooting the gap away from him.Otherwise, the run blocking was solid, was fast to the second level, and he was lights out in pass protection, showing really quick feet, a solid base and active hands. He moved to right tackle in the second half, and ended up playing 54 snaps, the most of any player on the team. You could see he was tiring a bit as the game went on, this was likely the most action he's seen in a couple of years. It appears the Packers liked what they saw also, as Walker was given reps with the ones at practice on Monday. Now, he's not starter-ready at all, but he's developing and you could likely get by with him in a pinch as an injury replacement.
A Dearth of Depth - Newman, Rhyan and Hansen, oh my! It will get pretty scary if one of three are pressed into action. It's no coincidence Zach Tom has seen some snaps at guard in practice this week. I don't like it, but since their tackle depth is far superior, they would likely move Tom inside if Jenkins or Runyan got hurt. I was really hoping to have set backups for every position, but hard to argue with not trusting those first three names I mentioned. Speaking of Rhyan...
Safety play - The Packers must have liked what they saw from Anthony Johnson in the Bengals game - he's seen a few reps with the ones and twos in practice this week. He was active, fast and aggressive versus the Bengals and most importantly for him, showed special teams ability. While I have mostly considered him a practice squad candidate, I could see the Packers hoping he's good enough on special teams to possibly take Dallin Leavitt's spot, who simply is not a good enough safety to play on anything but special teams.
Colby Wooden - What fantastic awareness shown here from a rookie defensive lineman, sniffing out what was supposed to be a middle screen to the running back. He likely feels the offensive lineman he's engaged with release, spots the running back, and pivots quickly enough to make a play on the ball. Not something you would expect from a rookie.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
Comments (64)
NickPerry
August 16, 2023 at 06:26 am
Valentine, Wooden, Walker, & Johnson... Those are just a few of the youngsters drafted by Gute the last 2 years or so who are going to be a HUGE part of what this team is building. There WILL be bumps in the road and I understand my Homerisum blinds me to some things but what the Packers are building is exciting as hell.
I'm still holding out hope for Rhyan... Hanson and Newman not so much. Newman? How that dude has gotten so much WORSE in the last two years is unbelievable.
fthisJack
August 16, 2023 at 06:41 am
Hello NEWMAN!
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 06:32 am
Valentine’s LEGIT!!! I’m in agreement with those suggesting we try Valentine in the slot over Nixon, and I'm not in favor of moving Douglas there, as TGR mentioned yesterday. Might be best to get a talented rookie used to taking reps covering the slot asap. Valentine could be a star, at the star.
PUT YOUR BEST PLAYERS OUT THERE! Having all of Douglas, Valentine & Jaire playing together sounds formidable. With Stokes being able to heal more in the process, this seems like a winner.
—
Walker did very well at LT. Agree. The one miss was a very tough angle for the reach block, but all of his other work looked pretty solid. Amazing his development in just 1 year. Huge difference & improvement.
—
Depth? I don’t think one soul here considered Hanson as depth. Newman a close 2nd, literally falling on his face. Agreed.
But, Sean Rhyan? His one really bad play came against the same player who beat Walker, only Rhyan’s miss, which was just as much of a whiff, resulted in a pick 6. That threw him off for about 3 plays, but he recovered and played pretty well thereafter. Rhyan had played great to that point too. Again, it was one bad play in his first real preseason action. Guessing 90-95% of Rhyan’s play vs. CIN I felt was solid - after reviewing about 4 times.
—
Totally agree on Anthony Johnson Jr. He’s got a chance to be quite good as a SS. Put Moore at FS and LFG.
I really do think AJJ will win the SS job outright. He’s that good. 2 more opportunities in front of him with NE and… SEA.
—
As for Wooden, I’ll share my draft notes:
ROUND 4
Pick # 116 DE/DT Colby Wooden - Auburn (#103 Overall TSN.)
6-5 285
3-4i DT
BRAWNY, big boned frame with THICK body. Fluid athlete.
+HAND, +ARMS to swipe/arm over/shed blockers
+Light feet. +work ethic. +character. +dependable. Started every game for 3 seasons.
Impressive mover for size. Can maneuver through gaps while covering a ton of ground quickly.
BIG SPEED + BEND + LATERAL + CHASE + POWER
DL versatility to line up ANYWHERE. Huge player who moves. Flexible to move through gaps. +++ Chase & pursuit. + lateral. + power. + size.
+++++ RUN D. Sets stout edge. 30 TFL.
Pocket pusher in pass rush. 14.5 sacks, 23 QB Hits, 6 PD, 3 FF.
2022 SNAPS: 259 B GAP, 13 OVER TACKLE, 253 OUTSIDE TACKLE
RUN STOP plus PASS RUSH.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 07:22 am
I’m not ready to start Johnson. Keep him yes. He’s finally showing some justification for his asserted potential, but he’s not on Valentine’s level—a guy whose stacked successes against everyone.
Rhyan has got to learn to protect or he won’t play. Hopefully that will come, but it obviously hasn’t yet. As a run blocker he’s got potential, but so does Newman and I think he is likely to released. As you know, I’d love to upgrade the power and run play in the center, but that can’t create a faster route one to the back field than pushing back Runyon and Myers does.
As a side issue, I thought moving Newman to T last year would hurt him. Newman had looked like he was progressing somewhat late the previous season. He needed time at one position. He’s sudden but limited laterally, which is not good at T. Since then his play appears to have cratered. Bad coaching/player management. In the end Newman may not have made it, but he probably doesn’t get worse to this point. And they were still messing with him there over Jones/Walker at times. Sorry, Butkus is as perturbing as Barry in my view.
At CB, the problem is we have 4 corners (if healthy) that all have been good on the perimeter but neither Valentine nor Stokes profile inside and Douglas wasn’t great there, somewhat surprisingly to me. I’ve no doubt Jaire could play inside, but I am not sure I want his talent there regularly. Nixon seems adequate in the slot, but not on a par with the perimeter guys.
We have an imbalance of numbers and talent. Similar but perhaps more pronounced, than we do at T & G/C. It could be a basis for a trade if there’s a team with the reverse issue, possibly, but at CB I’d want to at least try Valentine inside first. Again, something I’d expect my HC to already be on top of.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 07:55 am
Coldword, I was looking very closely to find fault with Rhyan, both run blocking and pass pro. I know Al knows his OL play, but I came away hard pressed to find fault with about 90% of Rhyan’s work that day.
I broke down and shared my review of every snap well past his miss, and had to stop. I didn’t find many of the blanket criticisms/statements on his pass pro nor his play in general to be representative. I’m not shilling for him either. I just wanted to know.
Johnson Jr., IMO, is the most complete player the Packers have at S fighting for a spot on the 53 next to Tarvarius Moore. Both run stop & coverage. Sapp III might come in at #3 for me, though his reps were just a fraction of the others. That’s why I’d start AJJ, even as a rookie, if he outright wins the battle over Savage, Ford, Owens & Sapp III.
BTW, I'm going to be VERY interested to see how S Dallin Leavitt, our star STs player fits into this mix. At best, I think the Packers will keep 5 Safeties. Matt Schneidman mentioned in his recent Q & A at the Athletic that Bisaccia would rather cut off his right arm than give Leavitt away. Interesting perspective there. I knew Leavitt was held in high regard on STs, but... that right there is a statement!!! LOL.
Based upon that, can we expect these 5 players to be our 2023 Safeties: Moore, Johnson Jr., Owens, Sapp III and Leavitt??? Possibly. IMO, it cannot be worse than what we had in 2022.
Owens needs to ramp up his play. Savage had no tackling reps. Ford looks to have regressed.
blacke00
August 16, 2023 at 08:10 am
I(n regard to Rhyan, a little patience would help here. The Packers saw him as 3rd round talent, he did some DA things and didn't take the NFL seriously. But he's a young guy and they do DA things.
That being said he's hasn't played any real FB in over a year and there will be rust. I too watched him during the game and thought he did ok.
The Packers claim they are a "Draft & Develop" type of team, it only makes sense to develop this guy. Be patient!
jannesbjornson
August 16, 2023 at 05:40 pm
See: T.J. Lang for the bio.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 08:15 am
Rhyan 1 on 1 is great—in drills and when out in front in the run. In pass pro he seems rather like Newman as a rookie (he was rated the best G in the NFL that preseason), if he knows what’s coming he’s good. However, if there’s anything remotely not vanilla or unexpected he’s lost. Newman had never mastered the mental aspects, Rhyan may, but at this point he’s like a RB who has the same problem in pass pro, he won’t and shouldn’t play.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 09:03 am
I'll agree to disagree on that. Plus, Rhyan is a mauler in the run game, and LaFleur, if he's really smart, might go run heavy in 2023. I don't think we're talking about a starter with Rhyan either. However, I see him becoming a quality backup this year vs. a bottom of roster player.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 09:33 am
The exciting thing about Rhyan is what he can do in the run game and his physical style.
That said, Newman should provide a cautionary tale. Here’s one review his review after his first preseason—not one that was contentious either:
“Newman, a fourth-round pick from Ole Miss, is the likely starter at right guard to start the regular season after a terrific preseason. He played 82 snaps, all at right guard, and earned elite run-blocking grades at Pro Football Focus. He also didn’t give up a pressure over 42 pass-blocking opportunities. How good was Newman? Through Saturday’s games, he is the highest-graded among all NFL offensive linemen in the preseason. Did the Packers discover another mid-round steal for the offensive line?”
Until an OL can read and adjust in pass pro, all the run game talent won’t cut it. Rhyan hasn’t even faced the non vanilla D moves that undid the Newman bubble and he’s certainly not shown anything like the competence Newman did against preseason vanilla. He might yet, though times running out to prove it before the season. That may mean another season not being called on. I still think we need to sign a veteran or two for the interior.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 10:32 am
It's so early. I won't argue that, Coldworld. I didn't even have Rhyan making my initial, way too early 53. I think he's moving up though as a depth piece on OL.
WD
August 16, 2023 at 07:28 am
Thus far, observation tells us Valentine is looking really good and I can see him possibly replacing Douglas who seems a tad bit over rated because of interceptions in 21. Also I would not rule Stokes out when he returns from injury. Finally it is early preseason and a little premature to break out the Champaign. I will suspend initial judgment and celebration until after the opener in Chicago where there are no guarantees. At this point in time there are 31 teams that feel they have a definite shot at the playoffs. This is an entirely different team from last year and probably one of youngest and least experienced. That said, with good health I think we have a chance at the playoffs.
BradHTX
August 16, 2023 at 08:04 am
“…premature to break out the Champaign”
Urbana is better than Champaign. Way more to do.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 10:31 am
A quality get right there, Brad! Nicely done.
mrtundra
August 16, 2023 at 07:29 am
Yes, Rhyan got beat on that pick 6 play. However, his play in camp and after that pick 6 vs Cinch has been pretty solid. I think Rhyan will be fine and needs these last preseason games to show he belongs on this team. Play him at OG and that frees up Tom to play at C or one of the OT spots. Yosh, then Walker and maybe Jones, can take the other OT spot.
jannesbjornson
August 16, 2023 at 05:38 pm
Agree, may the best man win. Valentine is just carrying forward his SEC film. He's the real deal, should have gone by round three. If he keeps following his trajectory through Summer Session, start him. Let Nixon move to dime, or free safety and let him roam. They were lucky Wooden fell to the fourth.
Bure9620
August 16, 2023 at 06:51 am
Strange to have so much depth at tackle and so little depth at guard. Elgton and JRJ need to stay healthy. If this O-line is healthy they will be a top 10 offense.
GregC
August 16, 2023 at 07:32 am
Yeah, I've always figured that a good tackle can play guard if he needs to, but none of these guys (Nijman, Walker, Jones, Tenuta) have even been tried at guard, as far as I know. I wonder why not. Are they too tall maybe?
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 07:58 am
All of those guys are huge. At a position where low pad level—leverage—is key, height has been seen as a disadvantage (as well as sight line issues for QBs). I did think they might try Tenuta, who otherwise probably profiles best as a guard in terms of style attitude, but it would be a long shot.
The problem at G is that Runyon and Myers seem to have plateaued. Rhyan wasted his first year and isn’t ready, while Newman has gone backwards, possibly due to coaching—his challenge was the mental aspect and moving him probably crazy. Hanson, the great leap of camp per LaFleur and Butkus last year appears a ‘never was’ NFL talent. That appraisal, snap allocation and misplaced faith may be a telling insight as to why we have questions in an area that was a strength for so long before.
GregC
August 16, 2023 at 08:20 am
Thanks, that's sort of what I figured. There was a coach who said that football is about the ability to bend at the knees and deliver a blow. And if you're an interior O-lineman, sometimes you need to get really low to deliver that blow.
There sure have been a lot of head-scratching moments with O-line coaching decisions in the LaFleur era. The enthusiasm for Jake Hanson last summer was one of the odder moments.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 16, 2023 at 08:06 pm
Can Hanson be a decent second string guard?
stockholder
August 16, 2023 at 07:15 am
Valentine brings back the TT years.
When somehow the packers could find
Tramon Williams and Sam Shields.
And now we have Douglass and Valentine.
I hate giving up on Stokes.
Especially after Casey Hayward.
The guy who is a starter is Zack Tom.
The only reason I see why Walker is getting pushed.
Is if Zack Tom fails. Like so many last year.
The Guard shuffle will be changing.
I guess this is going to be rubbing salt
In a open wound.
Agree on your thoughts at safety.
If Atari Digby could be found for a Super-Bowl run.
Johnson is icing on the cake.
Colby Wooden- Ok let the hype begin.
Remember Julius Peppers?
I need to pinch myself. It’s only pre-season.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 09:17 am
SH, I don't see the Packers giving up on Stokes, nor anyone here. Valentine's sudden emergence is still left to be played out, but it's an encouraging sign. His positive growth from this point would be great, and might allow Stokes more healing time for a possible return towards the middle or end of the season. Perfect for a possible playoff run, adding a healthy CB of Stokes' quality back into the mix.
Walker's play was an encouraging sight. He's got way more to prove. Tom is probably our Game 1 starter at RT. Caleb Jones is our #2 RT. Walker is looking more like our #3 swing Tackle? I'm not seeing a problem with that.
Guards are converted OTs in GB, for the most part. Elgton Jenkins was the exception. All that iOL shuffling is normal for the Packers this time of year, because now is the time for those conversions to take place.
I think Johnson Jr. just might be icing on the cake. He's the most complete player we have next to Moore at S.
Wooden might prove to be a steal. He got in on a lot of plays at Auburn. It's looking like that might be translating to the NFL from early looks. We'll see.
NickPerry
August 16, 2023 at 05:04 pm
Atari Bigby? Was that it... I'm pretty sure, like 99% it's not "Digby" but I hope you're right and they find the right dude. I think they will.
I like Johnson though this is really his 2nd year playing Safety.
Bitternotsour
August 16, 2023 at 05:11 pm
Oh, how soon they forget. Atari Bigby was a HUGE hitter and a fearsome safety. His injuries hurt us significantly.
I harbored some animosity toward Ted and Mike McCarthy that they didn't sign Adam PacMan Jones to pair with Bigby, giving us a safety pairing of Atari and PacMan.
The Packers damn sure should have hired me for marketing...
TxFred
August 16, 2023 at 07:42 am
Need to move on from Hanson & Newman. Look at the scrap heap & pick-up a gray bearded scratch 'n dent for back up. It's the weakest part of the team.
LVM needs to watch film of Reggie White on how to dump a blocker. Fast & efficient. LVM spends time & energy playing pattie-cake & wrestling. Quickly dump & attack. Sooner he gets thus down & other techniques the more fun and effective he'll become. Great watching his speed, strength & talent develop. All pro in the making. GPG!!!!
Ferrari-Driver
August 16, 2023 at 10:12 am
Reggie White: If only they grew Reggie White's on trees. One of my all time favorite Packer players right behind Bart Starr.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 07:55 am
The development of Walker (as well as Caleb Jones) presents the Packers with some interesting options as long as that development continues through the next two preseason games. One option is for Tom to slide inside to center and provide competition for Myers. A second option would be to trade Bahktiari and go with Nijman/Tom/Walker/Jones as the tackle group for 2023. Let the young tackles grow with the rest of the offense and prepare for 2024.
Prior to the good showing by Walker and Jones, I was firmly in the keep Bahktiari camp. It would take a really strong offer from another tackle hungry team to change my mind about keeping Bahktiari, but if Walker and Jones continue to develop it might be worth considering.
BradHTX
August 16, 2023 at 08:11 am
I’m firmly against the “trade Bakhtiari” idea. The single most important thing for a new starting QB is having confidence that his blind side is protected; nothing effs up a promising young QB more than getting brutalized due to a sub-par OL (see Carr, David and a dozen other examples). Bakh at 75% is still better than 75% of the OTs in this league. Hang onto him for this season, and his trade value might be higher if he shows his knee problem is under control.
Walker and Jones are both promising, but both were very raw and while they’re showing development, I think they are a year away from being a plus on the field in extended play. The player who is most ripe for a trade is Nijman. If Tom wins the starting RT position, and it looks like he will, do you really want a backup swing tackle at $4M/yr? I think you trade him to an OT-needy team for a 3rd or 4th and consider it a good use of his years of development from a UDFA.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 08:26 am
I think they are mishandling Nijman badly. I’m not in the keeping Bakh this year camp. I would have traded him once he passed his physical and gone with Nijman/Tom at T (whichever side). Nijman got Rodgers to a championship in one piece and I’d have let that line grow. However, Bakhs trade value is now increasingly questionable given the inconsistent availability. If he’s traded, it will be to a desperate contender before the deadline.
I think it would be a big mistake, but I can see us trading Nijman if we thing Jones and Walker are for real. If Jones and Walker can cover for Bakh and Tom if he moves inside—both of which could happen in any given game—then Nijman is superfluous. If they really aren’t sure Bakh can play regularly, then I would have traded him and gone with Nijman without hesitation.
However, if Bakh is going to start and Walker and Jones are ready to fill in then Nijman could be traded for a pick or player. if they do that, they are likely signaling that they can’t trade Bakh and may get nothing for him. I don’t see him as a long term blind side for Love, or likely to be here next year on anything like his current contract. If I were Nijman, with his track record, I might see a trade as a good thing given how they are handling me.
One of my concerns is that the talent evaluation on this coaching staff is very poor. Hanson, Newman at T, Amari, Watkins, it’s not just the OL. I think had we more confidence in knowing who was up and coming and where their skills lay, we might not be in this position. It’s one of the challenges I saw LaFleur needing to show he could assert himself (now there is no other opinion source involved, if indeed there actually was at this level). It’s coming up to half way through camp, so no final verdict, but so far I see troubling signs that this is rooted in the coaching staff and culture, not the former QB.
Gute had to waive Amari and Watkins to get them off the field. Hopefully such last resort measures aren’t required to remove dead wood like Hanson and probably Newman. Let’s see if LaFleur does that himself in effect.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 08:43 am
CW: I agree that the Packers are not doing Nijman any favors if they intend to keep Bahk. Nijman was a more than competent LT when Bahk was injured and I expected him to be the shoo-in candidate for RT. Given that Tom appears to be the RT and Nijman has been largely playing LT, I wonder if the Packers are planning to trade Bahk. That would make more sense to me than relegating Nijman to backup, particularly with the potential development of Walker and Jones.
And yes, one of LaFleur's major drawbacks is his excessive loyalties to underperformers. You listed players. I would add Mennenga, Drayton and possibly Barry to the list as coaches who LaFleur has been overly loyal to.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 08:58 am
I think it comes down to certainty over Walker and Jones. I Think if the coaching staff had that, the FO would trade one. I was expecting us to see both Jones and Walker feature a lot more prominently in camp. Instead we’ve been playing musical chairs with Tom and the starters from last year. Are we any wiser as a result? Have we answered any question with a visible upgrade? Thus far I’d say no, rather we’ve avoided all the critical ones.
If we do have confidence in the young players at T then I think one of Nijman and Bakh could be traded. I don’t know which is more likely to be, if that is the call, or if LaFleur’s handling precludes the required confidence level being reached. I’d go with youth, developing together and durability at this point, given where we are as a team. But that’s just me.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 09:09 am
The FO and the coaching staff got a pretty good look at Walker in the Cincy game despite the musical chairs in practice. Let's hope they get even more looks during the next two preseason games. Less sure about Jones as his ankle may limit his participation in both practice and the preseason games.
crayzpackfan
August 16, 2023 at 01:20 pm
CW - "I think they are mishandling Nijman badly"
I have to totally agree with this. He's being jerked around like an 18 year on a used car lot for the first time. He and Tom both need to be on the field at the same time. As far as 69 goes, I'm not for or against a trade. I'm indifferent. But I think I could be more easily convinced to be on the trade him team than not.
On a side note CW: I also share your skepticism on how our coaching staff evaluates our players. They seem so hesitant to jettison the dead weight while ignoring merit over everything else. Unless their judgement on talent is so skewed that they actually believed Amari was an absolute stud who was on the cusp of being the next Devin Hester? SMH
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 16, 2023 at 04:03 pm
Maybe they don't think Nijman is the long term answer anywhere, and are figuring out his best spot(s) in relief. Or they know that someone will pay him more in free agency next year, so would rather develop the cheaper guys behind him. Either way, he's gotten some great experience and some decent money this year ($4M) for an undrafted guy.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 08:32 am
BradHTX: Your first paragraph is why I was firmly in the "keep Bahk" camp during the offseason. Love needs to be protected. However Walker did a really good job of keeping his QB protected during the Cincy game and Cincy has a pretty good D-line. If (big if at this early date) Walker can continue to do that in the next two preseason games, he may be further along than you think.
I am not a fan of trading Nijman. Bahk is gone after this season. The Packers will need Nijman, Tom, Walker and Jones next year and beyond. Plus the Packers have a history of cutting loose older players, not trading young players. If any OT gets traded this year, I suspect it will be Bahk.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 16, 2023 at 03:52 pm
Wait, did Walker or Jones ever play against NFL starters yet? Or are we just basing their starting potential on one preseason game against 2nd or rd stringers?
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 06:52 pm
"If(big if at this early date) Walker can continue to do that in the next two preseason games..."
No one is anointing Walker or Jones yet, but Walker performed well enough in the Cincy game to allow some speculation about options. I didn't jump to any conclusions.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 08:16 pm
Agree. Both Bakhtiari & Nijman have separate, very different contract issues in play both now and in the near future. Both, IMO rock solid OTs at opposite ends of their careers. Both have possible trade scenarios in play. Both or one could be kept with extensions and priority shuffling elsewhere, and likely well into the future.
All I know, Walker’s initial relatively solid showing v. CIN was encouraging for the Packers OL depth.
Having BOTH Bak & Nijman this year? Wow. Us Packer fans are very fortunate, and if they both play through 2023, we’ll have one hell of an OL.
Glad we’re trying our players out everywhere on OL. It won’t be “all new,” for anyone in case of injury. Go read Pats reviews on today. NE has been so locked into “same starting 5, same starting 5” mindset, they lost both starting OGs and struggled to function against us, and their 2s were a disaster on OL.
I found reading Pats press eye opening.
croatpackfan
August 16, 2023 at 08:18 am
Your conclusion is logical, still I like David, his attitude and his experience. He is direct in expressing his opinion, what is rare quality today. And he is Packer! He carry the G!
On the other hand, he undrstand that NFL is business and not romance. Many was angry on him for his statements, but he was just honest. Do not forgot that he did not ask for trade, he has contract and he also confirms if he will stay on team he will need to restructure his contract. That was said in manner that he is willing to do that.
But, there is also the question of his durability and availability.
If I'm Packets GM, it would be very hard for me to make the decision.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 09:02 am
I have no problem with Bahk's attitude. He has been a complete pro during his time with Green Bay. Unfortunately his contract next year is such that this will be his last year with the Packers as any restructure would have to be dramatic to achieve sufficient savings. And likely too long term given his age.
This is a young team and it may be better to have young tackles grow with the team than keep a very good guy who will only be with the team one more year. If Walker and Jones develop enough to give Gute confidence than can hold their own if called upon to start, Bahk may well be gone.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 16, 2023 at 08:12 pm
Guam, the Jets are really hungry for Bakh. No word on how soon Mt Caleb might return from injury. This is probably why they're testing Walker; ya can't trade Bakh if he's irreplaceable or even if there's no depth.
Guam
August 16, 2023 at 10:00 pm
I've seen the rumors that the Jets are interested, but you are absolutely correct - the Packers can't trade Bahk unless Walker or Jones develop into a competent backup tackle. Starting the season with Nijman and Tom and no competent backup tackle would be a disaster.
The next two preseason games might provide some answers - one way or the other.
croatpackfan
August 16, 2023 at 08:07 am
I'm impressed by Valentine. Nice technique, clever between ears, confidence and speed. And real student of the game.
So, Packers have, what? 6 tackles - David, Josh, Zach, Caleb, Rasheed & Luke. All looks at least capable to play the position. Maybe some of them can be backups for G position?
Sean Rhyan? Well he showed upgrade of his software and hardware. But still on the level of Windows XP. He is long way to the level of W10 or 11.
Johnson Junior was my back up crush from the draft. I believe he is better than any other safety taken in this year draft.
Colby bought me after I watched his highlights and one college game where he was hurricane on the D line. He was in that game unstoppable. Add Karl Brooks to the list and I believe Packers are at least very good on DL.
Go Pack Go!
LeotisHarris
August 16, 2023 at 08:31 am
Like so many players, Valentine's pre-draft information was contradictory. He lacks aggression, is too aggressive etc. What was consistent was the notion he was a bottom of the roster/practice squad candidate. I love it when a young man proves the pundits wrong. Good on you, kid!
Maybe Valentine can share some of his mojo with Sean Rhyan? I'm still pulling for the guy, but sometimes it's darkest right before it goes completely black.
T7Steve
August 16, 2023 at 09:10 am
"sometimes it's darkest right before it goes completely black." LOL
Sounds like my love life.
Bearmeat
August 16, 2023 at 08:47 am
Our interior OL play is not good other than Jenkins. This, along with safety, is now my biggest concern on the roster.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 16, 2023 at 09:54 am
Runyan is good. Not great but slightly above average. Myers seems to be imploding. My guess is Zack Tom ends up starting at center out of necessity.
Bearmeat
August 16, 2023 at 02:40 pm
I'd be fine with that as long as we don't trade Bakh and there are no injuries. But that's awful thin to go into a season without a quality swing OT or interior backup OL.
Some idiots are screaming for Walker to start at RT, Tom at C and Nijman at LT and trade Bakh. Man... Packers fans...smh
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 16, 2023 at 04:05 pm
Yes, and not even considering the $40M in cap hits the next two seasons with a trade of #69.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 04:44 pm
June 1 has passed. Because roughly half of his 2024 cap hit is made up of money that has already been paid, the Packers are locked into a $19.1M cap charge in 2024 whether he plays or not. The other $21.4M is the money he is scheduled to be paid if he’s still on the roster in 2024. In other words, Bakh being released or traded before the next league year saves us significant cap over keeping him next year.
This year, if I recall, a trade now would make little significant cap difference (a small saving I think), as the current year cap for the paid bonus has already been charged. It arguably might get us some draft capital through a trade. Bakh is either agreeing to a big pay cut (unlikely) being offered another mega extension to spread the hit (also hard to credit) or departing. The chances of Bakh being a Packer next year seem very slim to me at this point.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 04:25 pm
I’ve not heard of anyone scream to start Walker. I think we are discussing depth. Nijman’s started at LT in plenty of games. There a fair chance he or someone not named Bakh starts some this year it seems. I’m certainly willing to entertain the idea that Tom helps more at C than RT. I could certainly see Nijman and Tom as future bookends too, if Nijman is extended.
As to Walker and Jones, I want to see them play seriously in preseason (if healthy). It maybe the future is Walker and Jones with Tom at C too. It’s time to start finding out. But if they are truly promising then some kind of trade becomes conceivable. So far, the signs are good that there is good in the pipeline, as Al noted.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 16, 2023 at 09:50 am
The player who stood out the most in that 2nd clip is Enagbare. Holy crap. He looks a whole lot quicker off the ball than last year. That dude hit the offseason real hard. Ya love to see it.
Handsback
August 16, 2023 at 10:31 am
I have more desire to watch the Packers this year then the last few years combined. It's not that I think they will get into the playoffs or compete for the SB, it's their youth. I'm really looking forward to see this team grow and eventually become not just a playoff team, but a team like the 49ers were a few years ago...where they crushed the hope out of their competitors. Seeing the Pack become that kind of team is something I look forward to this season. They won't be a polished well-oiled machine this year, but watch out for next year.
Just MHO
T7Steve
August 16, 2023 at 10:45 am
Really I'm with you! And how polished do they have to be to contend in the NFCN?
splitpea1
August 16, 2023 at 12:12 pm
Rhyan: Unfortunately he seems to be neither nimble or stout. In addition to the clip shown, there was another play where he was violently shoved backwards a few steps and was unable to recover....Rhyan is a prime example why NFL drafting is not an exact science; here we have a guy who's just barely hanging on, while the OL picked 48 spots later is a super-versatile stud with Pro Bowl potential.
Wooden: Definitely an encouraging debut; overall, he seemed to know what he was doing and didn't look lost at all.
The WR depth also had a good start, including drawing a PI and a nice block in the red zone.
lou
August 16, 2023 at 01:01 pm
Valentine brings back shades of Willie Buchanon although Willie was a #1 pick but he was ready to start day one and played at an All Pro level his rookie year. Besides coverage ability Valentine like Willie at 190 comes up fearlessly to force on running plays as well, you just don't see young well rounded corners like that today.
Coldworld
August 16, 2023 at 04:49 pm
High praise indeed.
LambeauPlain
August 16, 2023 at 03:05 pm
The Offense and MLF's revived IOC concept is well suited to a first year starting QB and their well stocked skill players. What will make it go consistently is the 5 best OL playing synergistically to create run lanes and clean pockets for Love to find the playmakers getting open.
Trading Bakht this season would be complete folly, IMO. He is their best OL as an elite LT, most experienced, and the leader of the room. Jenks is #2, Tom #3, Yosh #4, and Runyan #5. This group of starters is the best staffed position on the team, IMO. Let this 5 practice every day together to get ready for the bares.
Tom needs to go to center now. The IOL needs shoring up. Let Myers compete with Runyan at RG. The odd man out is a far better back up than either Hanson or Newman.
Swisch
August 16, 2023 at 04:54 pm
The more I read here at CHTV, the more it seems as though moving to Tom to center for the long-term is a good idea.
After all, isn't that his best position, anyway?
***
If Myers isn't cutting it at center, is there any possibility he could be good at guard?
Swisch
August 16, 2023 at 04:49 pm
Apparently, one team that needs an offensive tackle is the Jets.
Would it be a good trade for Bakh, and for the Packers, and for the Jets?
What could we get in return?
Ferrari-Driver
August 16, 2023 at 07:45 pm
If that happens and Bakh plays well, one thing likely is we will get a lower 1st round draft pick from the Jets next year. The best thing for the Packers is for Rodgers to play 65% or more of the snaps this year and the Jets lose more games than they win. Having Bakhtiari play for the Jets this year makes that less likely to occur.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 16, 2023 at 08:50 pm
Al,
this year is supposedly about playing the youts, or at least giving them a fair chance to compete for roster spots. It's rare that our Safety room isn't seen as a weakness. After the final preseason game there's still another 2 weeks until da Bares.
What if Ford and Savage are both beaten fair and square? Would MLF play the best available? Moore, Owens, and AJJ have a decent possibility of doing just that. I'm not sure about #48Sapp, but maybe.
Moving #38Gaunes to a slot CB may not yield a roster spot? Others have talked about some in the CB room being better than some in the S room.
Al these may be some of the biggest remaining questions, and they're about MLF as much as anyone.
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August 22, 2023 at 06:32 am
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