Vikings 24 Packers 10: Game Balls & Lame Calls
Opportunity knocks several times, but nobody's home.
By KenLass
Well, there goes another excuse. You know this one. The excuse where the reason for the Green Bay Packers’ poor play is because they are decimated by injuries. Against the Vikings the entire preferred roster was available. Yet the team’s descent toward the bottom of the scrap heap continued unimpeded.
I think the thing that is most frustrating about the way the Green Bay Packers are playing is that there is no one thing to blame. No focal point on which to vent your anger. Virtually every aspect of this team seems to take a turn playing badly. It’s like every time you try to plug a leak in the dam, two more leaks spring open.
Jordan Love misses a wide open receiver. Then Love throws accurately and the receiver drops the ball. Then an offensive lineman holds or false starts. Then a defensive back blows a coverage, or misses a tackle on third down, or a pass rusher roughs the quarterback. You win as a team and you lose as a team. And these are definitely team losses.
I suppose what is most depressing is that nobody on this team looks good enough to win. Upside is hard to find. There are players who have moments. There are flashes. But nothing that even closely resembles the ability to win a game, regardless of the opponent.
There was supposed to be a core of talented veterans that would be the backbone of this team as they rebuilt the roster. Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, David Bakhtiari, Elgton Jenkins, Jaire Alexander, Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon, Kenny Clark, Rashan Gary, Preston Smith. That nucleus was expected to provide enough talent to keep this team afloat. But all of them, really all of them, just look ordinary. And with a struggling quarterback, ordinary is not nearly good enough.
Maybe there is at least one thing the Packers can build on coming out of this game. It seems clear going no-huddle seems to help the offense. It seems to make them a bit more dynamic. Now if they can just get the quarterback to throw accurately, and the receivers to catch the ball.....
GAME BALLS
TJ Slaton
The second year defensive lineman had one of his best games in the green and gold. In the first half he stoned Alexander Mattison for no gain on second and one, then did it again on the next possession. In the third quarter he forced Mattison inside on a sweep where Gary tackled him for a four yard loss. In the fourth quarter he trashed Cam Akers for a loss. He finished with four tackles and five assists and outplayed his line mate Clark, although Clark had a late sack.
Jayden Reed
The rookie was the only receiver who seemed to have the ability to get open on a fairly regular basis. He led the team with 83 reception yards, more than double the nearest teammate. He looks more explosive in the open field than Watson or Doubs. His one negative was allowing defensive back Josh Metellus to wrestle a pass out of his hands for an interception in the third quarter.
LAME CALLS
Penalties
It’s really getting silly, isn’t it? Eight penalties in the first half alone. They come in all shapes and sizes. Holding, hands to the face, OPI, roughing the passer, false starts, delay of game. One of the reasons a team commits a lot of penalties is because they are getting beaten on a given play. The Packers are just getting outplayed individually, and until that stops, the yellow laundry will continue to fly.
Red Zone Playbook
Packers have a first and goal on the one yard line. Every team in the league is running the quarterback push into the end zone. Every team except Green Bay. Instead they stay in shotgun and run Dillon into a brick wall twice. Doubs bailed them out on fourth down by getting open in the left corner. The Packers just look like they have no plan in the red zone. To come away with just ten points after all those possessions inside the twenty borders on criminal.
Listless First Halves
How can this team come out so flat every single week? The Packers didn’t get their first first down until there were just over four minutes to play in the second quarter. It came on a pass to Watson and the Lambeau crowd greeted it with a loud sarcastic cheer. The offense stumbled through four consecutive three and outs to start the game. This is squarely on the coaching staff. Anybody can have a team get off to a slow start now and then, but to have it happen this many times in a row indicates these coaches are not capable of getting this team ready to play a game.
THREE AND OUT
-- On his fourth down scramble in the red zone, Jordan Love has to beat that defender in the open field to at least get one more yard and secure a first down. He just curled up and barreled into the tackler’s body. He’s got to show at least a little lateral shake so that he can fall forward and stretch the ball out. That failure indicated a surprising lack of athleticism to me.
-- I hate the Vikings almost as much as the Bears, but it would be a shame if Kirk Cousins is out long term. After getting a snootful of Jordan Love quarterback play for seven games, I couldn’t help but admire the way Cousins plays the position. He drops back, hits the back foot, the ball comes out quickly like a rocket, on schedule. I’d almost forgotten what that looks like.
-- An honorable mention to rookie Karl Brooks for blocking a field goal try, and Jonathan Owens for a nice return of it. Special teams were certainly up and down in this game. The Packers got a couple of real breaks when an 84 yard kickoff return by Minnesota’s Ty Chandler was called back. Anders Carlson missed a 35 yard field goal try, only to get another chance from five yards closer after an encroachment penalty. He nailed that one.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (108)
TKWorldWide
October 30, 2023 at 07:04 am
Reasons and excuses are two different things. Let’s say I usually run a 4.5 second forty yard dash. Then one day it takes me 12 seconds. It happens to be the day after I break my leg and it’s in a cast.
Reason or excuse???
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 07:30 am
Excuse. Clearly.
LeotisHarris
October 30, 2023 at 08:39 am
For real. Only a woke sissy would need a cast. Whiner!
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:47 am
lol
TKWorldWide
October 30, 2023 at 08:57 am
LOL if the cast fits…
Mtnman
October 30, 2023 at 08:45 pm
TKWorldWide: "Coach, I think I broke my leg."
Coach: "Well, get back in there until you're sure."
NickPerry
October 30, 2023 at 07:15 am
Game Balls...I'm to PISSED to give out a Game Ball".
Lame Calls... Gutes 2020 and 2021 Draft Class... Need a reminder?
2020 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2020_draft.htm
2021 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2021_draft.htm
I don't think anything else needs to be said. Crappy coaching with (Gulp) crappy players = 2023 Green Bay Packers!
#FIRE EM ALL
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 07:30 am
I hate playing the "what if" game especially with draft picks because you never know how the player will truly turn out.
But "what if" in 2021 the Packers take Creed Humphrey instead of Myers. They have a pro bowl caliber C.
What if they take Nico Collins instead of Amari Rodgers. Collins is an emerging star type of player where Rodgers is on what his 3rd team?
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:11 am
What if the two Centers playing in last night's game (Bears vs Chargers) weren't kicked off our team? Thinking you're going to replace them with a draft pick is stupid. Ok Creed Humphrey is stellar, but that's a very rare instance.
Many instances of someone who's now great was available when Gutey picked someone else, but I can't fault someone for not having a crystal ball. I don't think Gutey's our weak link.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:31 am
Humphrey was picked 1 spot after they took Myers. Its why he is compared so often.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 08:48 am
Tom was picked with C in mind too. Unfortunately Stenovich refuses to play him there. In a functional hierarchy, Gute coukd just tell him to. Not in ours.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 09:02 am
Problem right now with moving Tom to C, is who plays RT?
We will see about Yosh with his foot injury, but it appears he is going to be our LT moving forward. That would leave Caleb Jones, Newman or Michael Jordan for RT.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 02:19 pm
If go Caleb, but I’d have gone Walker/Jones to start with and benched Myers in preseason. Terrible pick and a coach who is not only deluded but too stubborn to change tack till it’s months too late
PeteK
October 30, 2023 at 09:35 am
Keep Tom at Rt as it's more important to an O line to have a good RT.
TKWorldWide
October 30, 2023 at 08:59 am
Right! And clearly, GB preferred Myers over Humphrey. For some reason. I think they mentioned height/arm length at the time.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 09:03 am
I also think they liked his speed at the position. He can pull and move well.
coolhand
October 30, 2023 at 10:15 am
Did you his speed in action on the first series on 3rd and short when he missed his block and lunged forward and landed on his face and Dillon was stopped for a 1 yard loss? It was comical, like a cartoon.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 10:43 am
Yes.
I would like to know what each OL is supposed to do in that situation. Is Runyan supposed to block down or is that Myers man the whole time? To me it looked like he was expecting Runyan to comedown on the DT.
Doofapotamus
October 30, 2023 at 10:47 am
I said this exact thing the other day you copycat 😂😭
packergal
October 30, 2023 at 07:55 am
NP,
This is an excellent point.
Out of 14 players only "4 = average" 10= "awful and/or gone".
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:12 am
4 from each year are still on the team. That's 8 out of 14.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:04 am
Currently there's a chorus of "blow it up."
Here's why I think that would be a mistake:
with the sad excuse for coaches, I don't see how a single player can be evaluated. They've all shown flashes, these are talented players. The problem is coaches haven't turned them into a team. Player mutiny is to be expected. I'm surprised they haven't shown up with 2x4s. If it "only" takes the form of not always doing your best, that's mild by comparison. Is that what we saw out of Ja yesterday? Are players staying "injured" because they can't bear the thought of taking the field under this mismanagement? Or was Ja not 100% and did what he could? If that's the case he shouldn't have been out there at all, or at least pull him once that much is figured out.
Butkus should be first to go. Demote Stenovitch to O line coach. Demote MLF to OC. Is RB ready to step up as interim HC?
Obviously none of that will happen while Mr We Are Not Idiots is in place; the Board needs to call an emergency meeting and retire him immediately.
After these changes are made, maybe some players can begin being evaluated a few weeks later, if a reasonable scheme is implemented.
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:15 am
So if we made so many mistakes in these drafts and continue with the talent gaps - why do we think our FO can do better? This roster is average at best with little real depth. Is Gutekunst going to wake up and suddenly know what a good O-lineman, D-lineman, RB and safety look like?
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 08:58 am
All teams make draft howlers. With us the biggest problem is what we do with the players we have. This coaching staff is preventing any player looking good. The indiscipline, the technical errors, the futility of scheme/calls, personnel choices and the staggering inability to change things up, let alone adapt. Coaching is visibly dysfunctional across the board and, when that happens, players look bad whether they are or aren’t.
This won’t improve with this staff, in fact it will get worse. The only available step is to change the culture and expectations. That requires LaFleur to be gone, yesterday. Until we do that, everyone on the field is going to look worse than they should.
FIRE LAFLEUR. It’s inevitable, but doing it now might start getting heads straight on field snd among coaches and it will stop the damage to development that is almost certainly occurring. Far more than with MM, this team needs to change HC in season.
TKWorldWide
October 30, 2023 at 09:02 am
Brutal, nevertheless.
But sadly, even if somebody learned something from these “mistakes”, it’s no guarantee of future success.
PS while we’re on the subject, which highly regarded players in the 2024 pool are going to disappoint?
stockholder
October 30, 2023 at 07:18 am
Listless first halves.-
Change the QB and will score.
It's just that simple now.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 07:54 am
So the WR's will catch the passes from another QB?
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:17 am
And the plays called will be brilliant. And the stupid penalties will stop, too! In fact, our backup QB will walk your dog ;)
I'm a big fan of #2, AS A BACKUP. Who I hope doesn't see the field because it would mean JL10 is hurt. Swapping them now would be insanity, unless they polish a gadget play and use him for that; something they don't have to burden JL10 with learning. A change of other personnel too, that completely throws off the opponent.
That would require actual coaching.
CanPackFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:54 am
Newsflash - AR12 is gone. We have a green QB starting now. He's doing what he can with a terrible Oline, no running game and receivers who are dropping routine catches.
Packerpasty
October 30, 2023 at 10:18 am
he's doing what he can with his limited skill set...he's had 3 1/2 years to learn at an NFL level his accuracy and footwork and decision making hasn't improved....sure he's a first year starter but on to his 8th game now...pre season many had this group on offense unstoppable...what a laugher...
Ian
October 30, 2023 at 10:37 am
Gotta disagree...like everyone else. Penalties ruin game plans; you can't stick to script if you are always off schedule due to penalties. But they need to make a new plan. LaFleur has said they play the full second half in 2-minute offense and every week it gets something done. They need to come out fast and not play afraid on the first possession. What worse could happen?
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 07:20 am
Game Balls:
Slaton -
I agree with Slaton. This maybe his best game as a pro. He was blowing stuff up.
Lame Calls:
Penalties -
While I disagreed with the Owens personal foul, and the Gary roughing the passer, there were way too many penalties. They keep taking away good plays on offense too. Love makes a tremendous play and gets a first down, only to have Walker be downfield pulling it back. That would have been a first down on the first drive.
Dropped Pass -
They dropped at least 6 passes. 5 of them would have been first downs. 1 of them would have been a TD. 1 of the dropped passes turned into a turnover which then led to a TD.
At some point these WRs just need to catch the freaking ball. They need to do what they can to help their QB out. Love wasn't perfect, but he deserves way better then what he is getting for support around him.
Three and Out:
- I don't get the need to put Musgrave inline all game long. Why not put him out wide? He is a guy with legit speed. Yet down after down he is inline. Lets put Kraft in line and spread Musgrave out. Let him use his speed.
- I watched LaFleurs after game presser. I honestly felt better watching it. He felt like he was on point about everything. He wasn't just sitting there taking the blame for everything. He was talking about the things that killed them. It was the penalty's and dropped passes.
- Trade deadline is coming very fast. For the first time ever, I think the Packers should be sellers. And I am at the point that there are no untouchable players on the roster. If they get a great offer. Make the deal.
My players that they would have to have a tremendous offers to get rid of are, Watson, Doubs, Musgrave, Reed, Gary, Walker, Alexander, Clark. But everyone else, make an offer.
pack1487
October 30, 2023 at 08:11 am
There is no way in hell the Packers are trading any of this years or last year's early round picks as they're all still on rookie contracts. My hunch for why we're not seeing Aaron Jones as much is they're dangling him out there and don't want to risk reinjury. Otherwise, how is he not on the field, especially in the red zone? His usage makes zero sense.
mrtundra
October 30, 2023 at 08:26 am
Yes! After the next game, the season will be half over. How much has Aaron Jones played, so far, this year? Not playing your best offensive weapon is just a waste of his talents.
Packerpasty
October 30, 2023 at 10:22 am
I like the guy but trade him...do the Packers and Jones both a favor..not using him is insane.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:35 am
No they won't trade them.
I don't expect them to either.
Jones played same amount of snaps as Dillon. He didn't get the touches, but he did drop a pass on the first drive, and he did fumble a ball later. While I agree he needs more touches, We can't have these kinds of plays from him either.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 09:02 am
LaFleur did say Jones would be on s snap count … presumably he was or LaFleur is a bigger numbskull than even I think.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:25 am
RCP:
"Love makes a tremendous play and gets a first down, only to have Walker be downfield pulling it back. That would have been a first down on the first drive."
This is a song I've heard before. There's continuity.
Owens hits hard. He got called for some penalties that he was playing with the mean streak our D needs to have consistently. I don't know the rules that well and I'm inclined to think they were bad calls, but sometimes ya gotta strike fear in the hearts of your opponents. Owens is that type of player. I thought he was frustrated with the B's, and did what he could to put a stop to it. I think that's called "taking responsibility." #28 should be making people afraid to try to tackle him. #25 demonstrated some violence and I thought I saw Ja throw his body into some people, although there were some weak efforts by him too.
Mt Caleb has yet to play a down. A 6'8" TE made some good plays yesterday, but we got rid of our 6'8" TE.
Our coaches are soft. I'm not sure if this is still football, but just in case it is, we should get some football coaches.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:40 am
This team continues to shoot their own feet. Not just foot, feet. They take one step forward 2 steps back. They take 2 steps forward, 1 step back. They can't get out of their own way. Take away the penalty's and dropped passes, who knows how this game turns out.
The Owens penalty was ridiculous. I get the toughness stuff. The Gary penalty also was bad. But I'm ok with it as like you said you are striking fear in the QB. He is making his presence known and felt.
I agree about Nixon. He was playing very physical. I kind of wonder if he'd make for a good safety.
What 6'8 TE?
PeteK
October 30, 2023 at 09:53 am
While Musgrave has some catches, his blocking is just embarrassingly horrendous.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 10:13 am
So why are they constantly putting him inline? Why not use him to he strengths and put him out wider?
PeteK
October 30, 2023 at 11:02 am
He also makes catches playing tight and there is no one else, maybe putting Dillon there might be better. I think putting a tackling dummy there might at least trip a defender up. I'm being hard on him because it seems as though he's not even trying.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 11:08 am
They do have Kraft which they have said he has been coming along. Why not go more 2 TE sets with Kraft inline and Musgrave spread out?
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 02:22 pm
Because Kraft is more inconsistent and not any better a blocker than Musgrave at this point. Sims might be an option But it’s not vastly different
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:46 am
...Our coaches are soft. I'm not sure if this is still football, but just in case it is, we should get some football coaches...
True and true. I got no problem with our safeties doing a little "enforcement.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 09:00 am
I thought the Runyon hold was an equally unjustified call.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 09:08 am
Agreed
Savage57
October 30, 2023 at 07:51 am
Kind of a miss on not giving a game ball to Preston Smith.
Two sacks and a forced fumble is about a good as it gets for a Packers defender these days.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 07:53 am
Good Call Savage.
And don't forget the PBU in the endzone. That was a great play by Smith.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:31 am
There were some strong plays by individual players. If that was consistent by everybody it would become a team effort; that's what's lacking, and if that's not 100% on coaches it's WAY more than 50% on them.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:29 am
I wanted to see more pressure, but he was one of our best. Cousins was pretty elusive. Does he tear his achilles without contact if he isn't pressured so much? I don't know how that works, it's just bizarre.
ImaPayne
October 30, 2023 at 08:45 am
Not to correct you but I'm sure you forgot about him also covering receivers in the end zone too. Cant have enough to do these days
Packers0808
October 30, 2023 at 07:56 am
The Packers at this point in every facet are so bad, nothing else need to be said!
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:04 am
Day After Game Ball -
Signing Gary to an extension. He deserves it! Congrats to Rashan!
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:33 am
He's Superman (according to Ja)
I'm not sure anybody should be getting $25MM / year, but at least he'll be staying on the team.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:43 am
No one is worth that money. But that is where the market is set.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 08:43 am
Just wondering. Who downvoted this?
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:55 am
I didn't downvote this but I am lukewarm about Gary. Seems to show up against weaker O-lines and disappears against the better teams. Maybe with a good D-line he could be consistently effective but that is not our D-line. Philosophically, I am not a fan of our OLB pass rush approach. They are expensive and don't contribute enough to making us good against the run. Maybe this is a 4-3 versus 3-4 thing but all that money and we still are not good enough up front.
RCPackerFan
October 30, 2023 at 10:11 am
Our pass rush approach is odd to me. They almost always are bullrushing, never trying to bend the corner. They have guys that can do it, but it seems like they are always just bullrushing. To me that is the defensive philosophy.
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:06 am
Makes you appreciate just how much Aaron Rodgers meant to this team. Last year without much at WR or TE he was able to make us competitive against most teams. And, as it appears he did this despite the coaching. If it was a thing or two that needed tuning, I could see the team turning the corner but so many mistakes, missed assignments and outright dumb scheme has me doubting that we have a coach who can lead us out of the confusion.
I am not going to rag on Jordan Love because I think that we would see a much better player playing behind a decent O-line running a more realistic offensive scheme. That scheme would probably start with our RBs rushing for 120+ yards. Which probably means a new RB or two, Sorry AJ Dillon.
On defense, we need to change the DC. When the Vikings were looking for a third down conversion, we inevitably would soften up our coverage and give them enough underneath space. Without Jefferson, we could at least try to jam and pressure a throw. Nothing but prevent style defense and sustained drives AND the Vikings don't have a run game. Come on defense - this should have been a mid teens score at worse. While I am not a fan of our defensive talent, there is enough to play tighter than Barry's scheme uses.
The Packers will improve only after the coaching improves.
Aldo
October 30, 2023 at 08:12 am
When LeFleur chose to keep Barry after last year's dismal performance, I saw a lack of recognition of incompetence on LeFleur's part. Now it is abvious that LeFleur doesn't make adjustments in his team/coaches when he needs to. He needs to go along with Barry.
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:19 am
I agree. Maybe the most important job of a head coach is to build a strong staff. The second job is to make sure that the staff are doing the best job. Matt is not doing either of these things well.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:37 am
Aldo, there's another angle to this.
1) Mike Murphy makes those decisions.
2) MLF could develop the reputation for firing everybody he works with. These are two factors you haven't accounted for but yes, it was clear last season that JB had to go. Now? Butkus is on the top of that list, even though JB has the D underperforming their ability.
jvole
October 30, 2023 at 09:30 am
Barry is bad but I think Butkus and Stenavich are worse (or nearly so). The O-line is just so freaking sloppy. It's not even talent but just lazy blocks, too early movement on screens, missed assignments, etc. Players who are not performing the fundamentals need repetitive drilling; rest is earned.
Coach Cleve Steamer
October 30, 2023 at 08:11 am
We’re down to applauding individual performances. But they all get a participation award.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:39 am
I wouldn't applaud any individual performance because none of them were consistent throughout the game, but more than a few flashed talent at times. Failure to turn these individual abilities into a team is a failure of coaching.
TxFred
October 30, 2023 at 08:25 am
Packers Draft & Develop!
What is missing here?
In my view it's DEVELOP!!!!!!
That fucking MLF & Staff will not or cannot develop this young,talented and VERY COACHABLE team. Potential All Pro are dying on the vine. Not one single bit of weekly improvement.
Teams have no fear nor respect for MLF's fucking mess.
And there are 10 games remaining, am guessing lockerroom comments will be heating up, by that time it is too late.
mrtundra
October 30, 2023 at 08:30 am
All the players being developed are either rookies or second year players. Love is the exception and until we get him protection from the OL, his level of play will not improve, either.
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:46 am
TXFred,
I agree, but not with your last sentence. Regardless who's said what, tempers are flaring. That too is coachable, IF we had a coach.
Fundamentals and footwork on the O line is the most glaring starting point, is Butkus here to destroy the team? Assume he's a Bear plant. Get rid of him and demote Stenovitch to O line coach, first step.
CoachJV
October 30, 2023 at 08:27 am
You missed a HUGE Game ball... and I think the MVP of the game goes to Preston Smith.... 2 Sacks, a Forced Fumble, a pass defensed in the end zone while in coverage... 4 QB hits... THAT my friends is a Veteran stepping up and showing how it's done! The rest of the team and coaches need to do the same!!!
mrtundra
October 30, 2023 at 08:38 am
I could care less that Kark got injured, and that he may be done for the season. Do you know of any vikings' fans who cared about Aaron Rodgers when Barr broke Rodgers's collarbone? Most of the fans, online, cheered the news. No sympathy from me, regarding Kark. Maybe the vikings OL isn't as good as it was made out to be?
ricky
October 30, 2023 at 08:38 am
Here is the problem, in a nutshell:
The offense stumbled through four consecutive three and outs to start the game. This is squarely on the coaching staff. Anybody can have a team get off to a slow start now and then, but to have it happen this many times in a row indicates these coaches are not capable of getting this team ready to play a game.
The coaches say the right things. They know what areas are a problem. They say all the right things, and promise changes. And then game time rolls around. The team comes out flat- when the game announcers are noticing and commenting on it, you know it's serious. There is no rhythm. The WR's let passes that hit their hands also hit the ground. Meanwhile, the same penalties are called on the OL on a regular basis. Week after week. Apparently, either the coaches are incompetent, or the OL is incapable of decent play. But how about last year?
Penalties Have Been Blessing, Curse for Packers
Sports Illustrated
https://www.si.com › nfl › packers › news › penalties-...
Sep 26, 2023 — The Packers were guilty of the seventh-fewest penalties in 2022 and the fewest in 2021. LaFleur has no tolerance for pre-snap penalties. (Apparently, until this year, his first without Rodgers).
So, two possibilities here. Have massive turnover of players during the off-season, and keep the entire coaching staff. Or have massive staff turnover, and keep most of the players who have shown they are capable of playing penalty free football. Or, do nothing, and hope for different results. Like running Dillon into the heart of the defense at the one-yard-line three times in a row.
Razer
October 30, 2023 at 08:59 am
...Like running Dillon into the heart of the defense at the one-yard-line three times in a row...
Arrrgh! If I see Dillon in the backfield on short yardage - I know it is time to go get another beer.
Coach Cleve Steamer
October 30, 2023 at 03:29 pm
This alone should get LaFleur booted. Cancel his ass.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 09:12 am
Veteran teams incur less penalties. The odd quirk on that though is a lot of ours have been on our veterans, however, the key with penalties is how you deal with them. We seem not to take action.
Perhaps that ties in to our attitude to changing players based on performance—an established issue over the LaFleur era. Whatever the reason, if you don’t tolerate them we’d see players learn or sitting. We seldom do. Another example of LaFleur getting credit for his roster not if his own doing.
CanPackFan
October 30, 2023 at 09:23 am
I believe our biggest loss on the Oline was Billy Turner. He was reliable and could play numerous positions. With him, we could have multiple options to shore up this line. But again, just bad player evaluation gets in the way once again, and again, and again...
PeteK
October 30, 2023 at 10:01 am
He wasn't even a starter for the Jets until recently and they are one of the few O lines that are worse than ours.
Packers1985
October 30, 2023 at 11:51 am
Yes Jets oline is worst but i think our Oline is better than the commanders too. Sam howell is the leagues highest sacked player and also the Giants oline should be up there with our oline if not worse.
PeteK
October 30, 2023 at 12:01 pm
This past matchup between Jets and Giants set a new record for combined punts 24, our punter has 29 for season. So of course shouts of get rid of last years coach of the year have been heard.
MainePackFan
October 30, 2023 at 12:04 pm
I think it's fair and reasonable to criticize the coaching staff, but it isn't that simple. For example, the Packers would have likely had a first down on the first series if Jones catches the ball and does Aaron Jones things with it. Who knows what happens from there, but that's on Aaron Jones.
Except for Walker, the O-line in 2022 was the same, and the coaching staff was the same. Did the coaching staff suddenly become tolerant of pre-snap penalties? Did the players forget everything that was emphasized last year? Probably neither of those things have occurred.
So what is the issue, and how does it get fixed ?
Fire all the coaches? Sure, why not.
Fire the GM? Sure, why not.
Get rid of some players? Sure, why not.
To me, none of these should happen right now.
I think most of us would agree that for the first 2 or 3 weeks of the season, we were excited about this team. How did it go south so quick? Same players, same coaches. What happened?? Obviously injuries, but it's more than that.
Adversity hit. I think perhaps we all underestimated what veteran leadership may have meant to this team. Think about the voices who were leaders on this team when Lafleur took over that are no longer here. Matt has always said he believed the best teams were player led teams, and that's how he's coached since he got here.
Now Lafleur has to do something he has never had to do. Run a coach led team. Thus far, it doesn't appear that he's been able to make that adjustment, and frankly, I don't know who the players leading this current team are. What players do you guys think stand out as leaders on this team?
I could be wrong on all of this, but it seems to me that this is not a talent problem. It may or may not be a coaching problem. One thing is for sure, it's an accountability problem.
BAMABADGER
October 30, 2023 at 08:38 am
No Game Balls
Lame Calls:
MLF play calling or lack of.......
Further O-line play regression, how bad can this get???
Terrible 3rd and 4th down D play
Dropped balls
Inaccurate passes
Zero run game... Where is Aaron Jones?? Play him or trade him.
LeotisHarris
October 30, 2023 at 08:40 am
Spot on, Ken. Game ball to you for: "Opportunity knocks several times, but nobody's home."
T7Steve
October 30, 2023 at 08:41 am
Game ball to Dismal.
Lame call to Dismal.
Wilment
October 30, 2023 at 08:45 am
The packers offense the way its constructed starts with the run......lets face it our leading rusher yesterday was Jordan Love. Defenses are putting an army up in the box because they know this team cannot run the ball. Every series, third and nine, third and 12, third and forever. The run opens up the passing game. Defense might play better if they weren't on the field for 40 of 60 minutes .
SicSemperTyrannis
October 30, 2023 at 08:51 am
Strategy:
knowing your opponent can't run the ball means you don't need to stack the box. That happened.
jlc1
October 30, 2023 at 02:45 pm
It is probably the opposite. You fill the box and you are daring the Packers to throw the ball.
harleycops
October 30, 2023 at 09:00 am
QB Love was a mystery when he was mysteriously drafted. It took 3 years and an A.R. trade to discover that Love is not the QB that Guter thought he was. The front office is where this decline starts. Draft cap hell has handcuffed this team for years. It's time to cut bait and gain bucks. This team has fallen apart. The stupid penalties, dropped balls, inadequate play call, go on and on and on. For all the millionaires we got on this team, we aren't getting our money's worth in any way. LaFleuzy won't freeze this winter 'cuz he's now in hot water. What lies in the future for our beloved Pack? That's a mystery!
CoachJV
October 30, 2023 at 09:06 am
I agree with everything except LAF being in hot water. The Board of Directors as well as the Triad of Power knew going into the season it was going to be bad. They are already absolved as far as the decision makers are concerned. They're all safe.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 09:17 am
Then expect this team to get worse, perhaps dramatically. These declines start to gain impetus not lose them. Bad coaching has cumulative results not just static ones. Yes the Board can do nothing, but Murphy’s swan song will likely be incredibly ugly if they just stick their heads in the sand. The country clubs will not be as friendly.
CoachJV
October 30, 2023 at 09:33 am
That might be true, but that is how it is... once the salary cap is straightened out, then they better field a winning team or heads will get cut... but they're safe until then.
Coldworld
October 30, 2023 at 02:25 pm
2025 then. I doubt they can crawl that far
Bitternotsour
October 30, 2023 at 05:12 pm
Murphy made this bed. You want him hiring a new coach? Friend, let's embrace that high draft pick and wait this season out. If by some miracle they go on a winning streak, remember these games and don't let that win streak cloud our memories.
LambeauPlain
October 30, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Love is struggling with this O...but he did not drop 6 passes. He threw passes that should have resulted in 30/41, probably over 300 yds, no INTs and maybe another TD. He was the team's leading rusher with AJ and AJD only getting 13 rushes. 13 rushes! Do you think Flores and the Purple D had a good idea the Packers were not going to threaten them on the ground early in the contest?
Given the hand the young QB was dealt by his coaches...and having to shoulder the entire O...a struggle is not unexpected.
BritPack
October 31, 2023 at 03:11 am
It seems to me that the biggest critics of Jordan Love are not on here, or any other fans forum.
It's actually the DC's of our opponents who don't create exotic schemes or packages to try to confuse Love. They just drop 7 into coverage and wait for him to throw a pick or get us off the field via incompletions. To me that is the most damning indictment of Jordan Love's ability, or lack thereof.
British by birth
English by the grace of God
Cheesehead by choice
CanPackFan
October 30, 2023 at 09:16 am
With this team presently, it's likely best to do a little selling or nothing at all.
Let's face it. We have a BAD coaching staff that is not "developing" the talent they have - let alone being able to evaluate it. IMO it's not a good idea to trade potentially good players away on the advise of this coaching/management team. If they can't evaluate or properly utilize the talent they have, don't let them cause a bigger problem come next season. It's like the old man who tried to fix George Costanzas' car on Seinfeld. It eventually caught on fire.
Who is making the decision on who starts on the Oline? Whoever it is - MLF or Steno - they deserve a good hard boot in the a** with a steel toed shoe. I guess after Walker took 2 penalties and allowed a sack(s), they finally put Yosh in only to see him injured. And Myers classic Matador block was just painful to watch. And he's playing the best he's ever played? There is a low bar...
But I guess the bar is universally pretty low to allow this coaching staff to continue on.
Lastly, I refuse to blame the young players solely for this season until this coaching staff can become at least adequate. That might be a bridge too far for them collectively - Rich B aside.
canadapacker
October 30, 2023 at 09:59 am
100% agree - this team lacks leadership and is on a downward spiral - not because of a lack of talent but because they are not put into a position to succeed = either by motivation ( all the penalties) or by scheme. Just look at that Dillon's second run on first and goal from the 1 - if Love puts the ball in and takes it out - he walks into the endzone. Lafleur isnt the great offensive genius. Why not have Mr Caleb out there - current guys have no push on the Oline. All of the bad penalties especially those that are after the play are killer and special teams have regressed and we got lucky that the other team held on the play. Geesh.
jhtobias
October 30, 2023 at 10:03 am
I tell you the most annoying thing about packer fans crying about the same thing over and over agin. Lafluer Joe Barry Gute jordan love etc. Everulyone knows this is a train wreck and your whining on this site will accomplish nothing.
The only thing Murphy ubderstands is money . Do what I do sell tour tickets to oppposing teams fans turn lambeau into rode games . That will put murphys feet to the fire . Stop with im not a true fan at least i do more than cry on this site for change
Packerpasty
October 30, 2023 at 10:20 am
well what exactly is the comments section of this site for then?? Talk about the weather?? Selling tickets to opposing fans is worse than bitching about the team on here...
jhtobias
October 30, 2023 at 01:00 pm
You are right about me calling out comments they arw for bitching that is my bad agreed. Believe me im far from a fair weather fan . My point is the only wat green bay managment gets off their ass is when lambaeu is overtaken by othe fans boycott lambaeau until changes are made
Bitternotsour
October 30, 2023 at 05:15 pm
I believe you have tickets. Really. That's totally believable.
Packerpasty
October 30, 2023 at 05:29 pm
but you and me know that wont happen...every sports team says that when things turn south, bags on their heads, etc...but Green Bay is different from other venues, its big deal to go to the games tailgate, etc so dont hold your breath thinking the stands will go empty...it is sad that there is no more Lambeau mystique..
jlc1
October 30, 2023 at 02:43 pm
Your logic is about as good as your English my friend. If Murphy only cares about money how exactly does making sure the stadium is full get his attention?
NFLfan
October 30, 2023 at 10:10 am
-Stenavich won't willingly return to O-Line coaching
-LaFleur won't willingly resign
-Barry-ditto
-Murphy-ditto
Either accept it or become more effective in removing them.
LambeauPlain
October 30, 2023 at 12:49 pm
With the youngest team in the NFL, you need great teachers and motivators. Is this coaching staff adept at either? Are players and coaches held accountable? Maybe behind closed doors but I doubt it. I don't think they coach to maximize players strengths and minimize weaknesses and create schemes around this.
Instead "here's our scheme...now learn it!" And when the team doesn't produce running it, the answer is "we have to get better running it next game."
It seems the inexperienced MLF and his entire staff are coaching exactly as they did with the veteran team in 2019. MLF is a glorified OC...it is what he focuses on and without AR, the results are very poor. Everything else he delegates, being either unwilling or too intimidated to get involved with the other 2 phases.
As Mike Wahle observed, the player football skills are weak. The OL footwork is terrible and a main reason they cannot run block. Someone on the line is always getting beat due to poor footwork and positioning. And just one whiff can lose the snap. Poor discipline is seems to be tolerated. (The one exception is Tom and watching him you can see his attention to detail with his feet and aiming points.) Wahle says even Jenks is getting uncharacteristically sloppy.
So what does MLF do? Abandon the run. Put more weight on his young QB and WR's shoulders. More pass rush pressure, poor throws and drops. Geez.
What do they practice, anyway? Do most of the top players even practice at all? Yesterday looked like a preseason game with backups, not preferred starters. And each game, they are getting steadily worse.
If Acting GM MM cannot see this, expect him to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...until his is forced to take the gold watch. This could take awhile.
There is talent on this team and a top HC and staff could quickly right this sinking ship.
canadapacker
October 30, 2023 at 02:05 pm
I somewhat agree but have some issues' Lafleur is a gloried OC??? - no I would think that he could be deemed as an overrated OC - overrated because he was an OC for AR. AR was able to overcome many of GB's deficiencies except when it got down to the nitty gritty and even the best cant overcome bad D ( San Fran PO running the ball down our throats) and bad coverage (TB end of half missed coverage) or Bad ST ( Arizona PO game). But I digress. Also we have selected pass blocking and zone blocking scheme guys - and if the players have bad footwork - it is not because Stenavich is moved to OC - he is still involved and the system is still in place - so it it up to him and not Butkus . Even this year Special teams is horrible - last game got lucky with the penalty on the KO as otherwise that was a really long return. And how many times has Nixon ran a ball back and not reached the 20 or has had a hold bring the ball back to our 10 yard line. Is that Rich's fault- think that maybe we have a total lack of team discipline and repercussions for taking dumb penalties ( especially those after the play). Nobody is held accountable - and the players who are not doing well are not sat in the place of others. And those who think that we should be taking another receiver are not watching the games - yes we have had some drops ( remember MVS had a few early in his GB career) but these guys have speed and escapability. If we continue to sink in the draft - we need to draft D line - especially speed guys - maybe a tightend = but Pitts isnt doing terrific in ATlanta - but like San Fran - build around getting the D built up and that takes the pressure off of Love while he develops.
jlc1
October 30, 2023 at 02:40 pm
Red zone? Up until this game GB was league best with 1st and goal. So they have a plan that works they just don't have the extra something that keeps the engines going.
This is best seen by Reed. The play faltered a bit, the pass being underthrown, and then he got outhustled and outmuscled on the play, just like every guy on the roster does multiple times a game.
Starrbrite
October 30, 2023 at 02:53 pm
Not an excuse, but the firkin worst officiating team ever assembled was calling this game. The roughing calls made by the officials were pathetic. As were other calls.
The hoculi crew has a resume of poor officiating and they should be banned/put on the shelf.
Go Packers!!!
Packerpasty
October 30, 2023 at 05:36 pm
I'm tired of hearing about the team being "young"....theyre going to be eight games in now and not all players are rookies...the QB is a fourth year player, first year starter yes but hasn't he been learning anything? Not all the WR's are rookies either...yah they are young, which on some teams is a positive, not in GB.. C.J Stroud, Bryce Young, Anthony Richardson they are all flashing great potential in dont think any of their teams are loaded with all pro's...second year guys like Kenny Pickett, Brock Purdy...they arent too shabby...this "young" excuse is bullshit now at game 8....