Ted Thompson and the Wonderlic Test

As the Pack gears up for the 2017 draft, it is always a time to reflect on past Ted Thompson drafts to discuss the good, bad and ugly of Packers drafts of the past.  The organizational approach that the Packers take with building their roster through the draft and not through a lot of free agent moves or trades is somewhat unique in the NFL. The Packers consistently have one of the youngest teams in the league due to this philosophy.  This also places a high premium on the quality of draft picks the Packers must select in order to have a strong team every year.

Like him or hate him, you have to admit that Thompson’s scouting group has done a decent job in terms of drafting players that have immediate impacts on playing time.  Note: the quality of play within that playing time is not the point here, such as how 2015 first rounder Quinten Rollins played this past season.

The Wonderlic and the NFL

Another common point of discussion around this time of year is the Wonderlic test, which is a test given by the NFL scouting staff at the upcoming NFL Scouting Combine.  The debate is never ending on the merits of the Wonderlic test and whether draft prospects should take it, how the test impacts draft status, and if low scores hurt certain players.

The highest possible score on the Wonderlic is a 50, which NFL punter Pat McNally scored in 1976.  It is hard to gauge the average Wonderlic score attained by NFL prospects in 2016 as the scores are not “publicly” released, but they are findable on most players.

So, given the performance of recent Packers drafting classes, has it correlated to Wonderlic performance?  Let’s pretend we are at the Stadium View Bar and Grill, grab a Spotted Cow and start a debate.

To see if you’re smarter than any of these players, try a Wonderlic test sample to see how well you would fare on the Wonderlic Test.

First, here are some of the Wonderlic scores of notable current Packers:

·         Aaron Rogers - 35

·         Clay Matthews – 27

·         T.J. Lang – 24

·         Julius Peppers – 18

·         Jordy Nelson – 28

·         Mike Neal - 20

By most standards and average scores by position, the only score that stands out is Peppers, which is a bit low at 18.  Obviously, this has not correlated to his outstanding career.

Here is a look at the last three draft classes – with their Wonderlic scores.  The commentary on their level of play is purely from the eyes of this arm chair quarterback that watches them every week. 

2014 Draft

Ha-Ha Clinton Dix – 15

Despite the low score – Dix has panned out in three years.  He was one of the only consistently healthy players on D this year, playing every snap and seemed to have an impact on a unit that struggled from Week 5 on.

Davante Adams – Despite all of our searching, we could not find a Wonderlic score for the WR from Fresno State

Kyri Thornton – 15 and 25 (took it twice)

A true bust – Thorton was taken in the third round.  Despite scoring 25 on his second take of the test, it is not tied to his success. He has since bounced around from the New England Patriots to the Detroit Lions

Richard Rogers – 22

Rogers scored a 22, and coming from Cal-Berkeley one would say that this is a formidable score. Rogers has likely underachieved as a 3rd rounder, although he has made some key third down catches in his career and of course, the big catch in the Hail Mary against Detroit in December of 2015.

Carl Bradford – 14

Bradford also did not pan out and perhaps his low score of 14 was correlated to this.  The linebacker was cut on waivers in both 2015 and 2016.

Corey Linsley – 29 and 33 (took it twice)

This 5th round draft pick has panned out extremely well. Taking over at center JC-Tretter at the start of 2014, Linsely has been very solid on an oft injured but well performing offensive line, despite getting hurt this past season. Centers arguably need to be intelligent with line calls and defense pick-ups, and his 33 high score would reflect that intelligence.

Jared Abbrederis – 32

Abbrederis is a rogue fan favorite with this speed and occasional burst on special teams.  He scored high on the Wonderlic, but has not seen much playing time on a team with a very good wide receiver core.  Fans are hoping more out of him in 2017.

Demetri Goodson – 17

Goodson still has not made much of an impact and he was hurt on IR in 2016.  He was suspended for substance abuse in 2016 and saw some limited time in 2015. Clearly he has not worked.

Jeff Janis – 23 and 32 (took it twice)

Janis Finally had some playing time in 2016, but has yet to break out as an every down receiver.  While hope still remains for the former Saginaw Valley State player, time may be running out to become a consistent target for Aaron Rodgers.  Janis is best known for this Hail Mary catch to send the Cardinals game into overtime in last year’s Divisional round.

 

2015 Draft:

Damarious Randall – 18 & Quiten Rollins – 19

Frankly – Randall and Rollins fit into the same mode.  Both were highly drafted defensive backs that had their share of ups and downs.  This year in particular, the two both seemed to struggle, but at the same time it can be a tough league for 2nd year cornerbacks.  Both were pressed into playing time when Sam Shields went out. This may be a critical upcoming season to gauge if they were good draft picks or not.

Ty Montgomery – 24

Montgomery had to make the switch this year from wide receiver to running back. Attaining at 24 on the Wonderlic likely made this an easier transition. With the need to read more fronts and blitzes, Montgomery had to learn new aspects of the playbook and did so in mid-season.  It was an impressive transition and he gave the Packers a running game during their late season run.

Jake Ryan – 22

Ryan needs to be able to read run and pass options sets, and having a 22 would likely qualify him with the logic to do so.  While some would argue about his quickness and run gap play, his pass coverage this year was serviceable. He has become an every down player, which is what you draft for mid rounds.

Brett Hundely – 26

Quarterbacks tend to have higher than average Wonderlic scores, and need to score higher Wonderlic as they need to digest huge amounts of information quickly.  We have only seen bits and flashes of Hundely in preseason and some rare blowouts, so the jury is out still on his ability. (and that’s okay…)

Aaron Ripowski – 31

Ripowski came out relatively nowhere this season after a quiet 2015 and a rash of injuries at running back. He revived Packer fans memories of the popular John Kuhn.  Ripowski fills a key role at fullback, a critical position in the Packer offense, and his 31 on the Wonderlic likely is a cue that is good at understanding the play book and picking up blitz schemes.  He scored a critical touchdown in the Giants playoff game and given the team a much needed presence in 3 and 1 situations that have been a struggle in recent years.  However, his fumble against the Falcons started a snowball blowout in the NFC Championship game.

Christian Ringo – 19 & Kennard Blackman – 22

Most Packer fans are saying the same thing right now. Who? Neither of these 6th round draft picks have made it.  Does their Wonderlic scores indicate this, or is the fact that both were drafted into a team with lots of competition at their respective positions of Defensive End and Tight End.

2016 Draft

Kenny Clark – 16

Many were not impressed with Clark this year.  As far as first round draft picks go, he would grade out at a below average rookie season.  He had zero sacks and 21 combined tackles in 16 games.  Obviously, the hope is that he has more of a breakout year this year.  His Wonderlic score was a bit low at 16, but not bad for a defensive lineman.

Jason Spriggs – 20

By all accounts Spriggs had a solid first season on an offensive line that stayed relatively healthy compared to previous seasons.  With some free agent questions on the line, notably with T.J. Lang, it will be interesting to see if Spriggs is called upon to play guard. But at the end of year one, given his spots and opportunities filling in for injury he played okay.

Kyler Fackrell – 32

Fackrell scored very high on the Wonderlic, which again is often a bonus for linebackers as they try to read plays.  However, within the linebacker core he saw limited playing action.  The only time Fackrell consistently played was when injuries occurred within the linebacker core.  The final emergence of Nick Perry likely also held down this playing time.  He played in 13 games and had 18 tackles.  So, not a bust, but not a break through draft pick at Round 3 either.

Blake Martinez – 27

Martinez did quite well for a 4th rounder this year, checking most of the boxes for a good season despite encountering some injury issues during the season, causing him to miss 3 games.  He had 69 tackles, including 44 solo tackles and also started immediately.  Finally, he was the defensive play caller, which is a huge responsibility for a rookie.  This would be one case where the 27 Wonderlic score would align with a player who played well in year one both mentally and physically.

Dean Lowry – 31

Lowry played in 13 games this year and recorded two sacks and 8 tackles.  However, he did not make much of an impact.  He did have a key sack against Houston in the snow during the Packers run in December.  As 4th rounders go, he likely was an average performer in this rookie year, but clearly the Packers are looking for more from him in 2017.  From Northwestern, the 31 score would be of no surprise, but this would be case where the Wonderlic did not predict a player’s impact.

Trevor Davis – 23

Davis was a relative non-factor this season with the wide receiver core, even given the injury situation mid-season.  He did have a good game against the Falcons the first time around, but that was all in 2016.  While 5th round draft picks aren’t supposed to carry the team, clearly Davis has work to do to crack a jam packed wide receiving core.

Kyle Murphy – 29

Coming out of Stanford, which would also support the higher Wonderlic score, Murphy was taken in the 6th round at number 200.  Frankly, the fact that he didn’t play was probably a positive as it meant the offensive line stayed healthy.  Additionally, the fact that he quietly stayed on the roster is also a good sign. In other words, on a team in 2016 that had a stable group of vets on the O-line, especially with Bryan Bulaga and David Bakhtiari, it was going to be hard to crack the lineup. However, when needed, Murphy hopefully would be ready at tackle.

What to make of the Wonderlic Test?

So as one can see based on the last three years of draft picks, the debate will likely rage on regarding whether or not the Wonderlic is important when making draft decisions.  With an every down player like Clinton-Dix only scoring at 15 versus a player Kyler Frackell at 32 who was relatively non-exsistent at OLB this season, it isn’t easy to establish a relationship between high Wonderlic scores and on field performance.  Although, it was noting that these busts had low Wonderlic scores: Thornton, Goodson, Bradford, Cand Ringo - all of these players scored in the teens and did not pan out.  Additionally, Clark, Rollins and Randall scored in the teens and it is a safe argument that there is still some questions as to their long term viability in Green Bay.

What do you think? Are Wonderlic scores important? Are they important for all positions or just for quarterbacks? Should they be regarded with more or less weight in this year’s upcoming draft?

----------------------------------------------

Fred Jordan, hailing from Appleton, Wisconsin, is a blogger about all things Packers related and is a manager of the website Wonderlic Test Sample, which provides free sample Wonderlic test questions for fun. You can follow Fred on Twitter @WonderlicWatch

NFL Categories: 
0 points
 

Comments (15)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
dobber's picture

March 02, 2017 at 07:40 pm

Not to nitpick, but....

Corps not core.

Abbrederis is long gone and signed a futures contract with the Lions after the 2016 season.

0 points
0
0
Todd Nicholas's picture

March 02, 2017 at 07:52 pm

rollins was a second round pick and randall was a first round pick for that year

0 points
0
0
Bearmeat's picture

March 02, 2017 at 08:12 pm

I have a doctorate and I've taken the Wonderlic. I didn't beat 30. Granted, I did it offhand and very quickly, but it's not an "easy" test. I would say the GRE and SAT are harder (and certainly longer), but they're in the same ball park. If you get above a 30 on the Wonderlic, you are a well-educated person.

As far as football is concerned, I'm not really worried about Wonderlic except at QB, C, WR (in our offense), FS, slot corner, ILB. And even then, ONLY when the Wonderlic is exceedingly below average for the position. For example, Vince Young's 7 (if I remember) should have really warned teams that he'd never be able to figure out the complexities of a professional offense, despite his immense physical talent. But Trevor Davis getting a 23 doesn't really worry me. What worries me is that he may never be strong enough to beat press coverage....

0 points
0
0
jeremyjjbrown's picture

March 03, 2017 at 12:39 pm

Other than basic reading comprehension, I didn't feel that higher education would help that much on the Wonderlic. For the sample I took, it was not really testing any kind of knowledge, just basic linear thinking.

0 points
0
0
Bearmeat's picture

March 03, 2017 at 03:20 pm

Perhaps I should have said: "If you score a 30... you are a intelligent person."

We all know from the news in the past 18 months that well educated does not equal intelligence. :D

0 points
0
0
jeremyjjbrown's picture

March 03, 2017 at 08:41 pm

If you score a 30 you are almost certainly above median intelligence, that's for sure.

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

March 02, 2017 at 09:03 pm

I don't agree with some of the offhand comments. Clark was not a below average rookie. Spriggs was absolutely terrible, not that I am worried about how he looks at OG: he isn't a guard and likely never will be.

This is rather anecdotal in nature regarding the virtue, if any, of having a high wonderlic score. The studies seem to suggest that there is little to no correlation between one's score and success in the NFL. One study even found a negative correlation: for TEs and DBs, the lower the score the better the player.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

March 03, 2017 at 05:00 am

I think they also determined that the best predictor for reaching the Pro Bowl for OL and DL was actually bench press reps.

0 points
0
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

March 03, 2017 at 06:06 pm

Mike Reuter had an article a year or two ago. IIRC, the broad jump was a good predictor. Not sure I remember.

0 points
0
0
Ferrari Driver's picture

March 03, 2017 at 12:50 am

Football is not all that complicated for players and they get plenty of repetitions with position coaches helping them master the plays.

These guys don't have to be mental giants, but I wonder about guys like Christine Michael who scored an 11 on the test. He makes pre-snap mistakes on a routine basis that simply should not occur. Is he just not bright enough to perform basic tasks which are repeated time after time?

0 points
0
0
Turophile's picture

March 03, 2017 at 04:40 am

I'd take notice of really low numbers. If I saw them on a player I liked, I'd chase up on whether he has a condition like dyslexia, or even vision problems, so I could have a plan to circumvent his difficulties, if it is possible. Some guys need tape, rather than words, to understand a concept, some work best with X and O charts.

If I saw really high numbers on a guy i have drafted, maybe I force-feed him more information than the average rookie, and see if he can handle it. If a player can understand the concepts behind what they do at a fundamental level, it helps to let them know when they can gainfully 'break the rules' of their responsibilities.

For all the coaching that players have, before the interviews at the combine, it is still not very difficult to pick out smart guys and dumb guys at an interview. If you cannot figure that out in a fifteen minute sit down, you are in the wrong job.

Wonderlic is just one more benchmark test in a battery of them, not especially important, but not worthless, either.

0 points
0
0
marpag1's picture

March 03, 2017 at 07:47 am

When hiring employees for an NFL team, I put about as much weight on the Wonderlic as Wonderlic, Inc puts on the three cone drill when hiring theirs.

0 points
0
0
Handsback's picture

March 03, 2017 at 07:52 am

I can't remember his name, but Green Bay drafted an ILB from OK, Torrance Marshall, right after they won the National Championship game. He was a beast in college and a complete dud in the pros. The reason was filtered around that he was as dumb as a box of rocks. So for every guy who is like that and gets cut in the pros because they just can't get the lingo down....there's a Dexter Manley from the Redskins. When he was drafted, it was said he couldn't even read! I'm not sure if that was true but he became a great player.
I guess the lesson is there is no sure fire test that will indicate a player's chance to make and excel in the pro game.

0 points
0
0
marpag1's picture

March 03, 2017 at 09:13 am

Just for kicks, I went to the wonderlic page (wonderlictestsample.com) where a whole bunch of Wonderlic scores are posted. There are 114 players in the list who had a score of 16 or lower. So I decided to put together a team from those 114 "dumb people." Here's what I'll be putting on the field.

OFFENSE:
My QB is Dan Marino (wonderlic - 16). I'll be playing a lot of three-wide, because my starters are Randy Moss (12), Julio Jones (15) and AJ Green (10). For passing downs, I can add Dez Bryant (16). My running back will be Frank Gore (6). Eddie George (14) can give him a breather once in a while. I'll probably sign Chris Johnson (10) for my change of pace guy. There are only two TEs on the list, so give me Rickey Dudley (14) over Eric Ebron. Similary, there are only two OL on the list, so piece together whatever journeymen you can pick up in third tier free agency, and I still think I'll be OK.

DEFENSE:
Looks like I'll be playing a lot of 3-4 nickel. Given my personnel, I think that can work.

Let's start outside. My corners are Derrelle Revis (10), Kyle Fuller (11) and Mo Claiborne (4). Safeties will be HHCD (15) and Louis Delmas (12), and I'll be playing a lot of Deone Bucannon at the hybrid LB spot in nickel.

My ILBs are Ray Lewis (13) and Bobby Wagner (8), so I feel OK there. Maybe I'd stick Lavonte David (16) in there once in a while, just for giggles. And I guess I'd be comfortable with Simeon RIce (13) and Jadeveon Clowney (14) coming off the edge.

Not much on the board for D-tackles, so pick up a few Mike Pennell types and call it a day. Just make sure that whoever you sign is pretty dumb, cuz that's gonna be our calling card.

My kicker is Sea Bass Janikowski (9). I won't carry a punter on my roster, because I doubt I'll ever need to punt.

0 points
0
0
dobber's picture

March 03, 2017 at 08:45 am

...Sea Bass Janikowski... :)

0 points
0
0