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Report: New York Giants Reach Out to QB Matt Flynn

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Report: New York Giants Reach Out to QB Matt Flynn

With Eli Manning sidelined for much of the NFL's offseason program after undergoing ankle surgery, the New York Giants are in the market for a veteran quarterback.

According to Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News:

The first stop on their search may be with Josh Freeman and Matt Flynn, two well-travelled veteran quarterbacks who are currently the cream of what is a very thin free agent quarterback crop. Freeman, the former Bucs starting quarterback who was traded to the Vikings last year, may work out for the Giants early next week, a source confirmed, though nothing official has been set up yet. And the Daily News has learned the Giants have also reached out to Flynn and may schedule a workout with him as well.

Flynn could be drawn to New York by his former quarterbacks coach in Green Bay, new Giants offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo.

Previously this offseason, there were reports that the Giants may be interested in other Packers that reached free agency like tight ends Jermichael Finley and Andrew Quarless and offensive lineman Evan Dietrich-Smith.

The Packers would seem to still have interest in Flynn but likely don't want to pay much more than a minimal contract for a quarterback with precious few other options.

What Flynn will have to decide is whether he wants the opportunity to compete for the Packers No. 2 job with Scott Tolzien and any other rookies the Packers might bring in, or head out to New York where he'd be going up againt Ryan Nassib in Curtis Painter to back up Manning.

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L's picture

He already knows his best spot is here, but it's the guaranteed money that'll make the decision for him.

Birney the baker's picture

So your saying this is all about the money for Flynn? I find that hard to believe considering he has plenty unearned income left from Seattle. I think Flynn is playing for the love of the game and a chance to compete nothing more. Not all players are about the money. Matt Flynn certainly isn't one of them in my opinion.

Tom Birney "the baker"

Thedon's picture

No player plays just for the love of the game. They have a finite time to make money as a professional and will seek to maximize their earnings. Matt Flynn will do whatever will make him the most money.

4thand1's picture

When he gets cut by the Giants he can come back to GB for the minimum.

Birney the baker's picture

Oh really? Well how about Mr. Brett Favre. He never cared about the money!! Never!! I hope you don't call yourself a Packers fan and not know about Brett Favre. Brett Favre wore old clothes and a dirty old hat, drank cheap beer and rode around in an old farm truck. He would have played for NOTHING if Green Bay asked him too. That's how much Brett Favre loved the game of football. I'm not saying Matt Flynn is as obsessed about just the game of football as Brett was but he is not concerned with money. He just wants to compete.

Tom Birney "the baker"

MarkinMadison's picture

You're joking, right? No? Then I have to call "b.s." on that one. Apparently you don't remember the famous talk that Holmgren had with Farve, telling him to settle down and that his contract would come soon. And that last year in Minnesota wasn't about money? Please. Don't make the mistake of thinking that he didn't care about money just because he wore an old hat and did commercials for blue jeans. There are plenty of people in this world who have more money than you would ever guess because flashing it is not their style. It doesn't make them Mother Teresa.

Birney the baker's picture

Mark, I stand by what I said about Favre. Favre doesn't care about the money when it comes to football. He just played for the love of the game. Now what I forgot to mention was that it wasn't Favre that wanted all the money it was his wife Deanna that is the spender. You know most women? They all love to shop and spend. It was Deanna that was the money grubber in that marriage not Brett. Brett just went along because like any man knows, if you can't make the money you won't be getting any sex. It's as simple as that. Women know the power they possess by saying yes or no to a man when it comes to "that". Most men can't say no, women can!!

All I can say is something major was going on in their marriage during his stay in New York. Perhaps Brett wasn't making enough money for her and withheld during the season. Maybe that's why Brett went looking for a younger less maintenance prettier look-alike in the lovely and talented Jenn Sterger.

So it all boils down to the simple basics and this goes back to the beginning of time starting with the cavemen. Men are still pretty simple and only care about one thing and that is sex and women only care about being taken care of and spending the caveman's money. Brett and Deanna are the perfect example of this and you know what? it works... This was how God intended it to work. Now if Brett runs out of money guess what? Deanna leaves and looks for guess what? Another man with money!! Brett meanwhile goes on having sex with other less demanding and poorer women while living off his past fame. Again, it works. God's way again!!

Tom Birney "the baker"

Clay Zombo's picture

Mr. Birney, what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read that. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Birney the baker's picture

So let me guess, you don't believe in God? There's always a few nuts. I should have known. Let me also guess, you are gay and you are offended that I didn't use two gay cavemen as my example. Sorry but the bible strictly says marriage is between a man and a woman. Go bark up someone else's tree Zombie.

Thedon's picture

7/10 as a troll. You had me at first, but after this post it's obvious you're trolling.

Birney the baker's picture

What exactly is a troll Heathden? I never understand why people toss that word around like air. It's insulting to me to be frank!!

I was making a post making fun of Brett Favre by saying his wife was in charge of the finances and he was only playing for the love of the game but mainly so he can still have sex. A few serious stiffs like ClayBozo and Strohkinoff have to get their women undies in a bundle. I accused Clay of being an offended gay caveman and now you call me a troll? I was joking around. Lighten up people. ClayBozo is a sensitive liberal who I had run ins in the past so I know what he's all about. He loves to talk politics and make everything political, I don't.

Do you really think everyone here enjoys reading nonstop Stroh comments on some fucking college player that nobody cares about. I try to have a little fun at times and this is the thanks I get? I honestly am considering leaving as this place has some of the most boring people on the planet. I long for the days of Aaron Nagler all liquored up after a Packers loss insulting all the fans here. Now THAT is fun. lol

Tom Birney "the baker"

Stroh's picture

That isn't anything new, all he does here is lower the collectives IQ!

Stroh's picture

No he's not joking! He IS a joke!

calabasa's picture

Sounds like the Giants are trying to get us to spend more money this offseason!

Birney the baker's picture

If they want him that bad than they can sign him. We still have Tolzein who has a higher ceiling anyway. Tolzein just needs a good offseason to learn the offense. Last year he was learning on the go. We'll be fine at backup if Flynn decides to be an idiot and take little extra money over a guaranteed 5 year job as backup to Rodgers. We'll see.

Tom Birney "the baker"

JimTaylor31's picture

I doubt if Flynn has a "guarenteed 5 year job" here or anywhere else. Bottom line is that he is only guarenteed a job until somebody better comes along. That is especially true for a backup QB. Once a younger QB with a higher ceiling comes along Flynn is on the street.

TommyG's picture

You are correct, and I believe this is what has happened in Green Bay with Tolzien coming in.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

I personally wouldn't mind if Flynn signed somewhere else. I'd much rather keep Tolzein. If their both here, I have No Doubt Tolzein will win the job. I can't wait for the off season. LVT

Stroh's picture

LV Tom... Just wanted to follow up our conversation regarding the Wolf trade for Favre... I had to do some work and got quotes from various sources, mostly from a couple of JSOnline articles by Tom Silverstein.

"One of Wolf’s first orders of business once arriving in Green Bay was to get Favre."

"Packers GM Ron Wolf had targeted Favre, the Falcons third-string QB, since his first day working for the team."

"Wolf said he had the trade in mind since Dec. 1, his first day on the job for the Packers. Before the game that afternoon between Green Bay and Atlanta in Atlanta, Wolf studied Favre from the sideline in warm-ups."

"On Feb. 10, 1992, Green Bay general manger Ron Wolf, on his 75th day on the job, traded a first-round draft choice to the Atlanta Falcons for the quarterback who would return the Packers' franchise to the glory of its past. It was the culmination of two years work in which Wolf first identified Favre as the next great NFL quarterback and then pursued him like an animal tracking prey."

"The story has been written often about how Wolf, then an assistant to New York Jets general manager Dick Steinberg, had Favre ranked as the No. 1 player in the 1991 draft and tried desperately to move into the first round to select him (the Jets didn't have a first-round pick)."

"Though Wolf had to sit back and watch his close friend and former Raiders associate, Ken Herock, steal Favre with the 33rd selection in the draft, one spot ahead of the Jets at No. 34, he never lost hope that one day Favre would be his. For the next year, Wolf kept close tabs on Favre and when he was hired to be the Packers' general manger on Nov. 27, 1991, he made obtaining Favre a priority."

Hope this clears up any discussion about how Wolf lucked out (he didn't) in the trade for Favre and Wolfs belief in Favre's being a Great QB from long before he was able to consummate the trade for Favre.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

I know Wolf thought Favre was a Great QB. I never said he didn't, of course he did. My point is, that Wolf (lucked out) on Favre's longevity, & becoming the Face of The Franchise. I'm sure he hoped that Favre would become that, but I don't believe he ever saw it. The longer Favre played, the better of a GM Wolf became. I don't know what QB'S went before BF, but he didn't go as high as he did, because he wasn't good. I think BF made Ron Wolf, not the other way around. He obviously deserves a Great deal of Credit for making that trade. I just don't believe he had a Crystal Ball to see the Future. You have to factor in the fact, that GB had a Perfectly Capable QB in Don Majakowski. Who by the way, I feel deserves a lot more credit than he is given. Majakowski made that trade for BF a lot easier to make at the time. Ty Dentmer also, if I'm not mistaken. JMO

Stroh's picture

I don't think Wolf made Favre, nor do I think Favre made Wolf. Wolf was a great GM, that saw Greatness in Favre and made it a point to get Favre. If anyone "made" Favre, it was Holmgren.

No one can ever "know" how good/great a player can become, suffice it to say that Wolf believed in Favre's ability to become a Great QB as much as anyone believed in Peyton Manning's ability to become a Great QB. That much seems pretty obvious from Wolf's dogged pursuit of Favre from even during the "91 draft.

As I said on the other tread I give Wolf, Holmgren and Favre equal credit for resurrecting the Packers. Of course if you want you could say that Harlan deserves the credit for resurrecting the Packers, since he's the one who made the changes necessary that allowed him to first hire Wolf, who then hired Holmgren and traded for Favre.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. The only thing I would add is, most New Coach's want their own QB. There really was nothing wrong with GB having Don Majakowski as their QB. In my opinion he was better than most. Holmgren was probably pushing for his own QB. I don't believe it was because Majakowski wasn't good enough. I'm not a fan of Ron Wolf or Mike Holmgren. When you mention Bart Star, Brett Favre & Aaron Rodgers, the next name ought to be Don Majakowski as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I've still got a small ax to grind. In the scheme of things, it's all a matter of opinion, & really doesn't mean a hell of a lot.

Stroh's picture

Majkowski was a good QB who had one majikal season. IMO, He was never going to be a franchise QB who leads a team to the SB.

I don't think Holmgren had a lot to do w/ Wolf getting Favre, but Wolf wouldn't have forced a player on Holmgren either. At the end of the day, Wolf, Holmgren and Favre were all tied at the hip.

If Wolf didn't make the trade for Favre, he probably doesn't become nearly the player in Atl, as he did in GB. Favre becoming a great player was in large part due to Holmgrens ability to develop QB's. If Wolf doesn't hire Holmgren and still trades for Favre, there a good chance Favre still doesn't become a Great QB or maybe he does and it was Favre who made Favre Great.

What is clear is that Wolf thought Favre would/could be a Great QB and made it a point to get Favre.

Birney the baker's picture

Would you just shut up already!! God Lord!! Shut up!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHUP9Sta9I

4thand1's picture

Its the offseason. To bad we didn't have a Suh to talk about. The new Lolions HC is already disappointed with him.

zac5's picture

If Flynn does sign with the Giants, GB will be inline for another comp pick next season. Has that ever happened before?

Nick Perry's picture

This one irks me a bit, after last year you'd think the Packers would quit playing around with the back-up QB spot. Tolzien threw a few nice passes between the 20 yard lines last year, but was generally pretty bad. You may as well call the Philly game a start considering Wallace was hurt on the Packers 1st series (a 3 and out) so he was 0-2 and needed Flynn to bail him out against the Vikings. Flynn may have a noodle for a arm, but he looked pretty damn good in relief of Tolzien against the Vikings. He won in Dallas and against Atlanta, and got SCREWED against Pittsburgh by the refs. If the Packers want to draft someone fine, but quit screwing around and sign Flynn.

Mike McCarthy has said he wants Flynn back. Every game he started he's given the Packers a chance to win, except the Lions game last year which was a group effort of sucking.

Jordan's picture

I think you have to factor in Tolzien was new and Flynn was a veteran in the offense. Add in the fact that Vikings had 31st ranked D, Dallas had 32nd ranked D, Atlanta had 27th ranked D......and Flynn is a veteran turnover machine. Tolzien has more upside than Flynn. I'd be fine if they didn't sign Flynn and went with Tolzien as backup.

Nick Perry's picture

7 of 17 41.18% and 98 yards 0 TD 0 Int (For once)....... That was Tolziens stat line against the Vikings before being replaced by Flynn. Flynn was 21 or 36 for 218 and a TD. If Tolzien was only able to put up numbers like that against the 31st ranked defense, which is what you said the Vikings were ranked, what does say for Tolzien?. I know everybody has a bad day but except for a few passes here and there, I saw nothing from Tolzien that would suggest if Rodgers went down for say 4 weeks the Packers could go 2-2 which is what you'd want in the very least from a backup QB. Hey maybe the guy comes through this off season and after a off season with his head in the playbook and working out, Tolzien becomes the new Matt Hasselback of the preseason. I just have never been impressed with Tolzien and last year reminded me why again.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Jordan, I agree with you here on Scott Tolzein. There's no question, he had a Terrible game against the Vikings. Things did not go his way. In one game he through for more than 300 yards & lost. He played well & like any new QB, was the victim of a few mistakes, & some bad breaks. With all the problems we had at left tackle last year, I'm not surprised & ready to give up on Scott yet. I believe he'll win the job this year. I think he felt a lot of pressure, & was handling it well, when the wheels started to come off. Had he won that 1st game, I don't think Flynn would have seen the field. Tolzein has more mobility, & a stronger arm than Flynn, + he is younger. I'll be surprised if GB lets him go.

Nick Perry's picture

Tom in the game he threw for 339 yards I believe it was he threw 0 TD's and 3 Interceptions. In a previous comment to Jordan I acknowledged he had some nice throws between the 20's. Most of what Tolzien faced was 8 man fronts to stop Lacy, he SHOULD throw for 300 yards.

Birney the baker's picture

Nick, it seems half here don't like him and half do. I do like him. It seems the ones that don't are all fixated on some stupid int's he threw and think that he'll never ever get better and all he'll do in the future is throw more int's and never be proficient in the red zone.

The other half me included sees Tolzein as becoming one hell of a quarterback once he learns this offense. Aaron Rodgers looked like absolute horse shit for his first three years. Remember him against New England and Baltimore? He was an int machine like Favre was. Flynn didn't do jack shit until his 5th year and nobody trusted the guy to win a game.

Now we have people here like Strohkinoff comparing Tolzein to Flynn on an equal basis? It's not even a fair fight. I've seen enough of Tolzein already to know if you give him even this offseason that he's going to destroy whatever Flynn is doing now or in the past. He's just that much better than Flynn is talent wise.

Flynn can only succeed here in GB's system. He's been a failure every place else. If he wants to go to NY I say f him and let him go if he's an idiot. He should be approaching GB asking to sign a minimum contract and thank his lucky stars but he apparently hasn't learned his lesson.

Tolzein will look like Aaron Rodgers in that first Dallas game by the end of this training camp if MM works with him. I have all the confidence in the world of him being our long term backup.

Tom Birney "the baker"

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Nick, I can't argue with what you've said. I've said a number of times, that Tolzein is a confidence type of QB, only the Great ones handle adversity well. Maybe that's not a good rap for him, but I saw that at WI.
When he's on, he's Great. Yes, he threw some int's that killed his good play. Flynn beat ATL, DALLAS, & I don't remember who. He had everything his way. He didn't have anyone breathing down his neck. Yes, Scott had a chance, & rightly so was benched. He thrilled us too many times at WI, to give up on him yet. I like both QB's, but I Honestly think Tolzein when both are on, is the better of the 2. JMO

Nick Perry's picture

Well it's looking more and more that either Tolzien will be the number 2 guy or Ted T is just one cool customer who has a figure in his head, has offered it to Flynn. Kinda a take it or leave it. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong gain, maybe Tolzien CAN be a good back-up. I guess we'll see in a while but hopefully, the backup doesn't see the field this season unless it's mop up time.

Stroh's picture

There it is! Hit the nail on the head "Tolzien threw a few nice passes between the 20 yard lines last year."

Moving the ball between the 20's is pretty easy, but Tolzien had major issues moving the ball and scoring in the red zone. That when the QB has to be at his best and Tolzien struggled to hit pay dirt! I like him and he could develop in that area, but that's a big red flag IMO.

If it comes down to being a backup in GB or a backup in NY, I think Flynn will chose GB unless the money is quite a bit different.

Like I've said before, I don't think this is a matter of the Packers not signing Flynn, its a matter of Flynn keeping his options open and exploring all his options to get the best situation for himself. Don't assume its the Packers dragging their feet. Flynns got to do whats best for HIM, not whats best for the Packers.

Birney the baker's picture

Why don't you do what's best for us and the Packers and leave and become a Giants fan you putz!!

This is Tom reminding Strohkinoff to SHUT UP!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHUP9Sta9I

Tom Birney "the baker"

JimTaylor31's picture

I would agree with that. At this point, with what we have seen, I'd rather go into camp with Flynn than Tolzien as the BU to Rodgers. I haven't seen anything from Tolzien that would lead me to believe he will develop into anything better than a BU anyway. May as well stick with the BU that has already developed.

Jordan's picture

Flynn has developed in to a turnover machine with a weaker arm than ever....and no mobility.

JimTaylor31's picture

And Tolzien showed what exactly???? At least Flynn can manage the game and we did win a couple with him. Tolzien just sorta sucked.

Stroh's picture

Tolzien was OK between the 20's, but he didn't sorta suck when it mattered. Tolzien was horrible in the red zone when you have to come away w/ points. Far too few scores, far too many turnovers in the red zone specifically. He sucked BADLY when the windows shrank in the red zone.

Jordan's picture

Yeah, I have a higher standard for Flynn since he should know the offense like the back of his hand.....

After reading all the posts, I think everyone's in agreement that the Packers would be better off with a backup that's better than both Tolzien and Flynn.

Tolzien throwing picks and struggling in red zone doesn't bother me as much as Flynn making his dumb turnovers. Matt Flynn showed why he is a career backup IMO. Flynns career may be over. I didn't have a problem with flynn's boneheaded mistakes in 2010 vs patriots. But in 2013 season, I had a problem with it.

Stroh's picture

Tolzien had 1 TD ONE, and 5 INT's in his 2 1/2 games starting. Flynn had 7 TD's and 4 INT's in 4 1/2 games as a starter! What about that are you missing? Tolzien struggled badly w/ costly (red zone) turnovers and couldn't put the ball in the end zone. Whereas Flynn moved the ball consistently and scored.

Tolzien struggles to put the ball in tight windows which is a very important trait in the red zone, and it led to far too many turnovers in the red zone for the Tolzien led Packers last year.

Birney the baker's picture

Wow Strohkinoff, were you saying this about Flynn in his first three seasons? Was anyone? Hell no!!

Tolzein impressed the hell out of me and a lot of other people with his leadership skills, his arm strength and his moxie. He was five steps behind Flynn when he started that first game, probably 20 steps behind it wasn't even fair.

Now here you are judging the guy and comparing him on some insane equal basis to Flynn as though they are the same age and have the same knowledge of the offense. If you think you can just pull shit out of your ass and have everyone here believe it think again numbnuts!!

I'm Tom Birney and I approved this message!!

Tom Birney "the baker"

JimTaylor31's picture

Tom. Look at the facts. We are a 0.500 team with Flynn and a 0.000 team with Tolzien. I don't see that changing much. At best Tolzien may develop into a sevicable backup which is about as far as his talent will take him. Flynn is a fairly good backup now. Unless Tolzien makes a huge leap this off season I don't see the Packers saving a roster spot for him. Let him and Flynn compete in TC and the better man win. Right now that would probably be Flynn.

Birney the baker's picture

I agree with you Jim. Flynn should come back. He should approach Green Bay and sign the minimum. This is the ONLY place he can have limited success but he still doesn't believe it. I also agree he's a "fairly good backup now".

As for Tolzein. You don't see him changing much and I do. That's the difference. I see Tolzein easily surpassing Flynn's best with just another full training camp. Tolzein is a workaholic similar to Russell Wilson that's why I am confident in this guy. Matt Flynn is only going to be average because he's not willing to do what it takes. Tolzein will work his ass off in the classroom and improve on the field.

The hardest part of the game is the mental part for a qb. Tolzein got baptized by fire and was thrown in the mix. Think of Rodgers and Flynn having to start a game in their rookie year. Do you really think they would have done much differently than Tolzein? In both cases it took those two guys three plus years before they showed any signs of positive play. Tolzein showed glimpses here and there and he was only in the offense for a few weeks.

I just like the ceiling for this guy. It's much higher than Flynns. Flynn's ceiling is Rodgers basement. Tolzein can at least make it up the steps.

Tom Birney "the baker"

Stroh's picture

If your impressed by 1 TD and 5 INT's all while facing nothing but 8 in the box to stop Lacy it just proves you don't know what your talking about!

For the record, I was a big fan of Flynn's even before the Packers drafted him. I hoped they would use a late round draft pick on Flynn to backup Rodgers. Flynn is a WINNER (Natl Championship at LSU) and knows how to play and win despite his limitations. So YES, emphatically YES I was saying that about Flynn his first 3 yrs in GB.

Flynn is a Far better leader than Tolzien could ever hope to be, which is why I liked Flynn coming out of LSU. When Flynn is in the huddle he garners the respect of his piers, when Tolzien is in the huddle he lacks confidence. Flynn is a winner that doesn't have great arm skills, Tolzien has only slightly better arm skills, but lack a winners mentality and leadership.

Birney the baker's picture

Yeah, believe it or not numbnuts, I am impressed with Tolzein. I don't think you understand who you are dealing with here. I am not some joe fan here. I was the first to predict Aaron Rodgers would be a hall of famer before he even took his first start. He struggled big time in the early years but unlike you I don't get a woody for numbers and stats like you do. I go by what I see and what my gut says. TT does the same. I see the same traits in Tolzein as I do in Troy Aikman. He has the same fire in him. Troy Aikman was horrid as a rookie and he also got throw into the fire without knowing what he was doing. He showed glimpses of greatness during those bad times and so did Tolzein.

We all know what Matt Flynn is capable of and that is he's a good backup for the Packers. His ceiling has been met. The problem is he still thinks or wants to start and my point is if he's an idiot and doesn't understand his days of starting are over than he better watch out because I am quite certain MM and especially TT is very high on Tolzein and won't hesitate to say goodbye to Flynn forever. They did it with Favre, Jennings, Woodson, Sharper, Bishop, Wells and they will easily do it with a backup qb.

It doesn't matter what job you do. The more you do it, the more you understand what you are doing the better you become. Why do you and others automatically assume Tolzein is incapable of being great? Probably the same people talking about Tolzein in a bad way were the same people claiming Aaron Rodgers sucks and that they should "bring back Brett". TT is the gambler and he usually wins. Never bet against greatness. TT is our greatness.

Stroh's picture

Tolzien is no better than Flynn. His arm talent is only slightly better but he's not a good leader. He doesn't inspire confidence from the other guys in the huddle. Flynn does... Leadership and the mental part are what makes Flynn what he better than Tolzien.

Tolzien is his 2 1/2 games. "led" the Packers by throwing 1 TD and 5 INT's and 27 pts. The Tolzien QB'd Packers scored an average of 2.57 pts per qtr (27 pts in 10.5 qtrs.). In Flynn's 4 1/2 games as a starter he led the Packers by throwing 7 TD's and 4 INT's and putting up 119 pts. Tolzien had a 66.8 QB rating while Flynn had a 85.7 QB rating. while the Flynn led Packers led them to 119 pts in 18.5 qtrs. and average of 6.43 per. Tolzien at QB less than a FG per qtr, Flynn at QB just short of a TD per qtrs. Thats almost 4 FULL points more per Qtr (More than Double the pt output).

Tolzien is 26 and Flynn is 28 so both are pretty much at their potential. Tolzien has been in the NFL 3 yrs and done nothing. He spent 2 yrs in SF working w/ Harbaugh who knows a little something about playing QB too.

In Flynn's 3rd year he nearly beat NE on a Natl stage by throwing for 251 yds, 3 TD 1 INT. In Flynn's 4th yr against a playoff bound Det team fighting for higher playoff seeding, he threw for 480 yds 6 TD's and 1 INT (136.4 QB rating)

Don't act like you know what Thomspon is going to do. You don't. There is no bigger Thompson fan than I.

Those are the facts, argue at your own peril.

4thand1's picture

Stroh, the facts don't tell all. S T was thrown into the fire with not having a chance to learn the Packers system. Flynn was there for 3 years and cut by 3 teams, including the lowly Raiders and Bills. IMO Tolzein has more upside unless Flynn's suspect arm gets better. With a full camp and OTAs Tolzien should improve a lot. The record breaking Lions game means nothing to me, the game on turkey day last year said a lot.

Stroh's picture

I expect Tolzien to improve his knowledge of the Packers scheme and playbook. However, Flynn was coming from having to learn his 3rd playbook in a year (that can be very confusing) and was thrown into the fire, when he arrived too. Tolzien was here for about 2 months and Flynn less than 2 weeks. Flynn hadn't been here for over 2 years, but had the previous stint. BTW Flynn started a game w/ Oak (thrown into the fire) and was 21-32 1 TD and 1 INT w/ a QB rating of 83.7.

Neither was in a great position to succeed. Its was reported that Flynn had an elbow injury that limited him in Oak and Buffalo. That's shouldn't be a problem this year, but we'll see. Tolzien's arm is only slightly better, but arm strength is about 4th or 5th on the list of QB traits. Flynn has better intangibles and leadership, better pocket and huddle presence. Tolzien has a slightly better arm and a little more athleticism.

So you throw out one Det game when the lions were playing for a higher playoff seed, but take the other Det game with little on the line? Sorry that doesn't make sense.

I hope Tolzien and Flynn will battle for the backup job. I want them both in training camp.

4thand1's picture

I was at the Lion game when Flynn lit em up. I've never seen a worse secondary ever. Packer receivers were running by em all day. Nothing on the line???? Detroit had the division gift rapped and lost 5 out of the last 6. They had plenty to play for. -1 for you there.

Stroh's picture

Have to disagree... He beat Stafford in a shootout and Stafford was playing an even worse Packers passing D. Can't discount one but take the other as gospel. Have to consider all games played. No cherry picking allowed.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Stroh, I respect your opinion on Scott Tozein, but at this point I disagree with it. When you said Tolzein could never be the leader Flynn is, that's just your opinion. You haven't given the guy a fair chance. Flynn had every advantage there was last year. Flynn was able to sit back & watch a patched up offense, & a terrible defense lose a couple of games. He had the experience of being in control of that huddle before. Of course he looked like a better leader. Scott had all the pressure on him, & was handling it pretty well, if he could have gotten a little help from his OL &
his Defense, especially up the middle. AR played a Decent game when he came in against Dallas, but he had a lot of practice time with the players. It certainly hurt Scott for not being one of the group yet. Personally, I am not sure Flynn will be here this summer, & if he is, I think Tolzein, once he gets in with the rest of the team, & gets some of the pressure off, will beat out Flynn for the job. Let's wait and see what happens in the preseason, before you go writing off Scott Tolzein. He's a better QB than you are giving him credit for. I like both QB's. I've seen enough QB'S in my day. If I had my choice, I'd keep Tolzein over Flynn. He's capable of being just as much of a leader as Flynn. Let's wait and see how it plays out. You haven't given him a fair chance to compete for the job. Remember, AR didn't fair too well at the helm his 1st year, & that was with how many years in the system?? Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but Flynn isn't here yet. LVT

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Stroh, For what it's worth, AR made the statement last year to Scott Tolzein, that he thought GB would be a Good Fit for him. That might carry some weight that we don't know about?? LVT

JimTaylor31's picture

"I see the same traits in Tolzien as I do in Troy Aikmen". Hahahaha!! Surely you don't mean Troy Aikmen the football player?

Birney the baker's picture

No, Troy Aikman the announcer. Of course I mean the football player!! Actually Aikman's stats as a rookie were much worse than Tolzeins and Tolzein only had a short crash course just to try to learn the offense. He still did better. Now try to think future forward thinking here when I compare his year to Aikman and what Aikman eventually did when he learned how to actually play qb in the NFL.

Since a lot of people here are numbers guys like Strohkinoff I'll go that route because Tolzein's completion percentage was 61.1. Aikmans was 52.9. Tolzein had a higher average per catch than Aikman and the all important qb rating Tolzein blew away Aikman at 66.8 to 55.7. Oh, just in case you forget JimTaylor, Aikman didn't win a single game that year. Imagine that. Just like poor sucky Scotty didn't either. They are even on that front. I am quite certain there were Dallas fans wanting to give up on Aikman because he "sucks" and throws a lot of int's (18 his rookie year).

Again, only an expert like myself and a few others here apparently can see greatness in Scott Tolzein. The rest of you are scared and would prefer the safe thing in Matt Flynn which is fine but I don't like people saying or telling me how a guy who just played a few NFL games is suddenly going to suck for a lifetime just because the fan base has been spoiled rotten to the core expecting their qb play to all play like Rodgers did when he started in his fourth season. Very few rookie qb's or first time starters start off playing like a veteran pro bowler. It's a growing pains position for the most part.

Scott Tolzein is going to be one hell of a qb if MM decides to stick with him over Flynn. Honestly if I were MM and Flynn decides to act like Favre and hem and haw, I would close the door on him and tell him to go f himself. I then go with Tolzein and don't look back.

Tom Birney "the baker"

Stroh's picture

Except Tolzien's not a rookie. He's been in the NFL 3 yrs now. Did Tolzien look anything like Aikman in his 3rd season. Tolzien has been working in SF most of the past 2 years w/ Jim Harbaugh who happens to know a little about playing QB.

Birney the baker's picture

Oh, there you go stat man. When presented with "facts" as you like to use and say ALL the time when it suits you, now you go the opposite and say "oh but he's not a rookie he's a third year guy blah blah blah. I knew you would say it, I knew it!! You are so easy to predict.

You had no problem showing all your stats of Flynn who's older and knows the offense inside and out and comparing it to Tolzein who was only here a few weeks before being thrown in the lineup but when I compared Tolzein to Aikman's rookie stats than you have a problem. lol

You are a disgrace and a hypocrite. You will do and say ANYTHING to make stupid people here think you actually know what you are talking about. I love it when I bury your ass. You can't hide from the facts Strohkinoff. The fact is Tolzein was much better than a hall of famer was in his first starting season. Facts don't lie only you do. lol I win again and you lose!! Class dismissed!!

Tom Birney "the baker"

Stroh's picture

He IS in his 3rd NFL season you stupid moron! The PS counts since he get to... you know PRACTICE!

Your a fucking idiot and a TROLL! Do everyone a favor and get psychiatric help. You Clearly need it badly. You have a pathetic life and your a pathetic person.

Birney the baker's picture

Wow!! Ladies and gentlemen, you see how his mindset has changed today. Well this is the perfect example of when you know Strohkinoff has been defeated on a topic. He actually believes he's right on everything that when he's proven wrong as is the case here where I shoved facts on Aikman vs Tolzein he has no where to go but to rant and act like a mad man. It's hilarious seeing this guy defeated and how he responds to it.

Facts, facts facts Strohkinoff!! You wanted facts to support the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

I'll say it again and everyone here can check it for themselves. Scott Tolzeins numbers in his first couple starts were better than NFL hall of Famer and first overall pick in the 89 draft Troy Aikman's first starts. Age only matters when it doesn't fit Strohkinoffs points. To think Strohkinoff got defeated by a baker. lol

I am Tom Birney and I approved this message.

Tom Birney "the baker".

Stroh's picture

I disregard the vast majority of your inflammatory comments and take the high road. You reference me in EVERY F'in comment you make. As another commenter said if you use me, my name or reference me in any way YOU make thing my business!

I've been taking the high road the VAST majority of the time for the sake of fellow commenters who don't need to be subjected to your incessant trolling! Its time you STFU... If you continue on this course, and it IS the course YOU CHOSE, its going to start getting worse!

I try to stick to football, my opinions and the facts. When you reference me in every comment you can't expect me to stay out of it for long.

If you stick to talking football, leave out ANY reference to me (thinly veiled or not) I will. Its what I've been doing for a month now. But this is YOUR decision to make. Talk football and ONLY football w/ no references or comments to me, you'll get the same.

Be smart and do everyone a favor and take notice! Again this Is YOUR CHOICE to end it or not!

Birney the baker's picture

Screw you Strohkinoff!! I referenced you because I was talking about you and your points you made about Scott Tolzein which not only I disagree with but so do the vast majority of people here you moron!! I reference you a lot because you are the one with the biggest mouth here always yapping away on every damn subject and post. I was commenting on football dumbass!! Yes, your comments on Flynn and Tolzein. HELLO!!

You don't tell me what to say and how to say it. I'll say what I feel like. This is a free country. Didn't you say that a week ago? If you say something I disagree with your damn right I can talk about your comments. What the hell do you think I have been doing here. You are wrong on most of your points. You think I am just going to sit back and let you con the rest here thinking you are some Mel Kiper Jr.? Think again. I know you, these people don't. They are only starting to get to know the real you thanks to me.

You say something that I agree with and I'll let you know but so far I disagree with pretty much everything you say on this Matt Flynn/Scott Tolzein discussion. The fact you were embarrassed by me and proven wrong is not my fault. Deal with it and quit your crying. You lost this one.

Tom Birney "the baker"

MarkinMadison's picture

Tolzien had no off-season in the system. He basically was thrown into the fire after, what, a couple of weeks of practice as the 3rd/2nd string QB. Not good when you are talking about an NFL offense that runs on timing. Tolzien has a good arm. I'm not saying the Packers should keep him, pass on Flynn or draft a QB in the fourth round. All I'm saying is you cannot judge much about Tolzien based on what happened last fall, other than the fact that he showed he has the arm strength to make the throws he needs to make in this system.

Jordan's picture

Exactly.

HankScorpio's picture

I pretty much agree with you Mark. Once the Packers brought in 2 new backups after TC, the die was cast that if Rodgers went down, the replacement QB was going to be unprepared and look lousy. Whether that was Seneca Wallace or Scott Tolzein. And Tolzein did look lousy. He was a turnover machine and QBs simply MUST be careful with the ball. Above all else.

I'm very curious to see what Tolzein can do with last year + this offseason under his belt. I don't believe we've seen all he can be. He does have a better arm than Flynn, no doubt. A better understanding of the system could work wonders for him.

Having said that, I'd still love to see Flynn brought back @ or near the vet minimum. If not Flynn, then another veteran. And a day 3 draft choice. Keep the 2 best behind Rodgers. The Packers got spoiled by 20 years where they needed a grand total of 1 start from their backup QB. Last year showed how amazing that streak was, and how important it is to remain vigilant about the backup position behind Ironman starting QBs like Favre and Rodgers had been.

Clay Zombo's picture

I don't about all of you but I think Josh Freeman could make one hell of a reclaimation project for this team. I have seen him play some pretty damn good football in this league so I know he has the ability, they just need to rebuild the guys confidence..

If he looks good in his appearances for GB there could be a draft pick to be gained from him either through trade or they could get a comp pick for him if he leaves after 1 yr as a UFA.

Freeman still has the potential to be a starter in this league, Flynn not so much. I would still re-sign Flynn because he has value to GB with his knowledge of the system but if he signs elsewhere, Freeman would be my first call right after the news breaks of Flynn signing.

Birney the baker's picture

Oh my God, now I finally realize what type of moron I am dealing with. Josh effin Freeman? Really? Reclaimation project? lol

.. and you thought what I said about Brett and Deanna was dumb? I was joking but you are actually being serious here. lol

This has to be the worst post I ever read. Thank you for wasting two minutes of my time I'll never get back. I guess it's better than the Packers wasting a year of their time with your boy Josh.

Tom Birney "the baker"

4thand1's picture

Another personal war?

Birney the baker's picture

"Another personal war?"

Yes, it appears that way at this point in time. We'll see. There's only two people I have a beef with here and both are related to Strohkinoff. He's either his brother or father but not sure yet. Strohkinoff has other kin working for him posting fake likes to all his posts and disliking other people to make himself look better in the public eye.

Tom Birney "the baker"

4thand1's picture

AW wtf, it makes it interesting, lol. Were spoiled fans. Losing sucks and we all want more. These MFing injuries can't keep happening and if the Pack stays healthy, look out.

Nick Perry's picture

4thand1, Someone actually gave you a dislike on that comment. It must be a terrible thing to be a Bears, Lions, or Vikings fan when your Saturdays are spent on a Packers website dishing out dislikes because their teams suck and they know already by seasons end it will be the Green Bay Packers winning the NFC North....AGAIN!!!

Stroh's picture

4th and 1. You should be condemning this POS instead of giving tacit approval. He's a F'in TROLL! Ruins every thread. Do you seriously enjoy having to read thru his comments? He adds NOTHING to any conversation!

Birney the baker's picture

Why would 4th and 1 condemn me? because I happen to agree with everything he said on Tolzein and that pisses you off? You really believe that you are God on this board don't you Strohkinoff? Everything you say is right and the law and everything you don't agree with you "condemn". Just who is the sicko here now telling 4th and one what he should or shouldn't be doing? The guy is a grown man you moron. He can support or condemn whoever he wants without your permission.

I don't think anyone here enjoys reading thru your boring posts but until you leave that's what we're up against. I have told you to shut your yap but you continue to bark away like an angry dog. All I know is you are really upset today and that's a good thing. It means that your power here is getting less and less by the day.

As for adding to the conversation, I can talk and chew gum at the same time. I have added more than most here on Tolzein and Flynn. I also was able to beat you up and prove you wrong on every post of yours. That's a win win in my book. Now get back to adding nothing to the conversation on Flynn and Tolzein like you are doing right here.

Tom Birney "the baker"

Birney the baker's picture

4th and one, yes it definitely can get interesting at times especially when Strohkinoff signs in and out of his other I.D's.

I agree with you on Tolzein by the way as do others. All I know from dealing with Dr. Strohkinoff is he's never right. Seriously, I've been dealing with this putz on these boards for over five years and in that time he has been wrong on so many things that I lost track.
He of course will deny it. I am here to embarrass and humiliate him on a daily basis without even trying. He buries himself every time he opens his big yap.

I told him the only way he will ever get respect is if he leaves here and never comes back but he won't do it. I want so much to respect Stroh.

Tom Birney "the baker"

Stroh's picture

You never said any such thing and I've never come across you until your pathetic existence arrived on the blog. I am and have always been Stroh on every site I've ever been on. Apparently the other sites you were on got sick of you trolling others just like your doing me. I proved I was correct on the Wolf discussion and everyone saw it.

You don't know squat about football or the Packers! Instead of trolling you should STFU and read, most of the commenters here offer something positive and have good conversations. You could learn a lot instead you trash EVERY thead w/ you pathetic obsession w/ me. Its a sickening and pathetic life you live. Get psychiatric help!

4thand1's picture

Good morning you vile , nasty , homophobic, posting maniacs. What's the hot button pushing topic of the day? How many days till the draft? Off season blues after a long winter have got a lot of peoples panties in a bunch. Well maybe I'll watch the Masters this afternoon and then????

Jordan's picture

Here's a look at Flynn's 2013 stats:

He's a turnover machine. He's a veteran. A veteran INT throwing......fumbling machine......with a soggy noodle arm and zero mobility.

The only good thing I can say about Flynn is he's not afraid to stand in the pocket....he doesn't get spooked. But he really doesn't have any choice but to stand in the pocket because he has no mobility.

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattflynn/367/gamelogs

Ideally, the packers will find somebody better than Tolzien and Flynn.

4thand1's picture

All's quiet on the chtv front. C'mon guys give us something juicy to rip on. Where is that pessimistic arloser when you need him? I think he's here under a new handle.

Birney the baker's picture

That's because Strohkinoff and his 15 I.D's are gone for the day and night. You see how if you take him away how quiet it gets. He's pretty much 50% of the people here but he's doing it under different I.D's. I think his wife took him to the vet for some shots or something.

Tom Birney "the baker"

4thand1's picture

The 49ers seem to be imploding. Aldon Smith got arrested again. Said he had a bomb while at the LAX airport. Bowman got a nasty injury, Kaepernick has some questions and Justin Smith isn't getting any younger.

Birney the baker's picture

I agree. I wanted so much to talk about Kaepernicks arrest here but you can't do it. There's no effin place to post it. Pisses me off. One of the biggest stories out there and we are resigned to talking about some linebacker from North Dakota State that nobody cares about except Stroh and his I.D's.. 4th and One, is it just me or don't you wish they could have some type of separate forum here for us fans so we can post our own topics to discuss? I mean Brian Carriveau works his ass off here posting topics but there's times I'd like to discuss other things and there's simply no place to do so. You have to end up doing like you did and posting an off topic here and risk pissing off people. It sucks.

Tom Birney "the baker"

4thand1's picture

Water cooler sports does it. People talk anything and everything. Pertains to the NFCN & NFCS. Have fun in there. Try it you'll like it. The NFCW is our biggest rival. Seems they have trouble handling success. Seachickens with adderall and 9ers with the law.

HankScorpio's picture

On the SF implosion front: Don't forgot that nobody in SF can seem to stand Jim Harbaugh.

Point Packer's picture

Birney the baker = Longshanks

Hopefully the good folks at CHTV will ban him (again).

Glad this is my first post in the new format. I'm Point Packer dammit..

Point Packer

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