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Packers Must Be Wary of Red Flags with Top Draft Prospects: Ebron, Mosley, Clinton-Dix

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Packers Must Be Wary of Red Flags with Top Draft Prospects: Ebron, Mosley, Clinton-Dix

Eric Ebron, C.J. Mosley, and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix—arguably the top tight end, inside linebacker and safety respectively in this year's draft class—all come with high ceilings. All three are potential Pro Bowl type of players.

Unfortunately, all three also come with potential red flags that make them risky propositions as first round NFL draft choices.

Perhaps ironically, the three biggest needs of the Packers entering May's draft are conceivably at the same three positions: tight end, inside linebacker and safety. And not coincidentally, all three players have appeared in a myriad of speculative mock drafts as being selected by Green Bay.

The Packers and general manager Ted Thompson need to—and likely already are—vetting the backgrounds of all three players if they hope to address any of those positions with the 21st overall draft pick.

No matter the player, the money, attention and expectations that come with being a first round draft choice are unbelievably steep in the high-stakes world that is professional football. 

The level of concern with Ebron, Mosley and Clinton-Dix each exist to varying degrees, and it's possible that none of them will concern the Packers.

If these were second round draft choices or lower, the Packers and most NFL teams might not bat an eye at these perceived warning signs. But for the millions of dollars invested in players expected to become cornerstones of a franchise, the least a team can do is thoroughly investigate each situation.

North Carolina tight end Eric Ebron

While flying under the radar in the mainstream media, NFL Draft analyst Tony Pauline of DraftInsider.net is leading the charge on the character concerns of Ebron.

During a recent podcast, Pauline uses several emotionally-charged words to describe the Tar Heels tight end:

I've heard he's a high-maintenance personality. Over the past 72 hours I've spoken with four sources who just say that from a character point of view, a lot of red flags are being thrown up about Ebron. Basically, he's a 'me' type of player or person. He's a guy that's been called sort of a primadonna by some of his teammates. He does a lot of finger pointing. Basically, the world revolves around Eric Ebron, which turns a lot of people off. It's turned some of his teammates off.

In many ways, Ebron is reminiscent of Packers free agent tight end Jermichael Finley. Not only do they have almost the same size and playing style, their personalities would appear to be much alike as well.

As those who intimately follow the Packers have come to know, Finley had a disposition and temperatment that sometimes needed attention, caressing and assauging. He also lacked a filter that got him uwanted attention in the media.

What the Packers have to decide whether they would want to enter a relationship with a player of a similar mentality and makeup after just escaping one in Finley, assuming he doesn't re-sign.

Alabama inside linebacker C.J. Mosley

Several injuries sustained by C.J. Mosley over the course of his college career are no secret. According to an article at AL.com, Mosley dislocated elbow as a freshman, dislocated his hip as a sophomore and underwent a minor procedure on his shoulder heading into his senior season. Charlie Campbell of WalterFootball.com also cites unnamed sources pointing to a knee injury. Whether that stems from what was initially feared as a knee injury in the 2012 BCS National Championship game and later confirmed as the dislocated hip is unknown.

NFL Draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki raised questions about Mosley's "long-term durability" in his profile at NFL.com.

Mosley declined to run the 40-yard dash at the Combine but did so at the Alabama pro day, clocking a best time of 4.62 seconds, per Gil Brandt of NFL.com. He still has not done the bench press. At his pro day, Mosley told the media about medical examinations he had prior to the Combine and insisted he checked out fine.

"Everything was good then," Mosley said. "There weren't no red flags thrown up or anything they had questions on I got an MRI or X-Ray on, so it turned out well."

The Packers and all NFL teams had their opportunity to closely examine Mosley at the Combine and very likely have access to any X-rays or scans they could possiblly want to see. But things also have a way of going unreported. For example, it wasn't revealed until after last year's draft that another former Alabama player had a previously unknown surgical procedure, that being Packers running back Eddie Lacy.

Despite other teams passing on Lacy because of his injury history, he proved there was little concern after having a successful 2013 season that ended in him being named the NFL's Offensive Rookie of the Year.

Alabama safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix

In early October of 2013, Clinton-Dix was suspended indefintley for accepting an impermissable benefit in the form of a loan from an assistant strength and conditioning coach, one of nine on the Alabama staff, that reportedly had a connection to a sports agent.

According to the Tuscaloosa News:

(Corey) Harris made a short-term loan to Clinton-Dix in an amount less than $500, after Clinton-Dix's car was broken into on the night of June 25 or the morning of June 26. The Tuscaloosa News has obtained the police report filed by Clinton-Dix after the break-in, detailing the theft of money, an iPad, a backpack and sandals — both embroidered with Clinton-Dix's jersey number (No. 6) — stereo speaker sub-woofers, miscellaneous shirts and Nike Air Jordan shoes.

Clinton-Dix was reinstated by the NCAA after two games when it was found he repaid the loan and did not have contact with any agent or representatives. The strength and conditioning coach providing the loan was initially placed on adminstrative leave and later fired by the university.

Talking about the incident in retrospect, Clinton-Dix is quoted saying by AL.com, "It was a downfall on my part taking that extra benefit. They made a decision, they had to do what they had to do to punish me, to teach me a lesson and teach other guys a lesson and they did that. I just called it a downfall because I made a mistake."

Like Ebron, there are worse things Clinton-Dix could have done. He did not break the law, but knowlingly accepting money from a coach has called into question his decision-making. What NFL teams will be looking for is that there's no more skeletons in the closet.

For what it's worth, Clinton-Dix also underwent a minor knee scope after Alabama's final regular-season game but participated fully in both his team's bowl game and the NFL Combine.

It bears repeating that the concerns surrounding each of these afore-mentioned players are minor on a relative basis. But the question is not whether these players are the next Aaron Hernandez (character) or Justin Harrell (injury); the question is if they're worth passing in favor of a player that doesn't have as many question marks.

Should any of these players be on the board when the Packers are on the clock on Thursday May 8, might Green Bay be better served by taking Texas Tech's Jace Amaro, Ohio State's Ryan Shazier, Louisville safety Calvin Pryor or any other number of players instead?

Brian Carriveau is the author of the book "It's Just a Game: Big League Drama in Small Town America," and editor of Cheesehead TV's "Pro Football Draft Preview." To contact Brian, email carriveau@uwalumni.com.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

So Clinton-Dix was punished by the NCAA for borrowing money while he was in college?

I get that it shows as a lack of judgement to break the rules but the NCAA's rules seem inhuman to me. I don't know anyone who got through college without borrowing money. The President of the NCAA made 1.7 million last year, and Nick Saban made 5.55 million.

As far as I'm concerned the faster the Northwestern Football team takes down the NCAA's slave labor racket the better.

Stroh's picture

NCAA rules are antiquated and out of date by about 50 yrs. Borrowing money is an offense, so are a lot of other things people do every day. The suspension for Clinton-Dix doesn't bother me in the least.

Ebron is a different story. He's considered a headcase and me player. Think TOol, and from what I've heard he's worst then the original TO. I can't see anyway the Packers would bring him into the lockerroom. He just doesn't fit the team first mentality that the Packers preach.

HankScorpio's picture

I couldn't agree more about the NCAA and their rules. The rules about players and money are insane given the amount of cash that schools and coaches makes off those players performing on the field.

I don't see how Clinton-Dix taking money is any kind of a red flag for his potential to play professional football.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Jeremy Brown, Agree 100%, Do you remember when Wi players were suspended for getting a deal on football shoes? BA was making, I think 1 1/2 Mill a year at that time. This whole rule on College athletes not taking anything, is a joke as far as I'm concerned. I don't see the sense to it, plus it's going on anyway in some cases. Cam newton/ Reggie bush, JMO. LVT

Clay Zombo's picture

I doubt Amaro, Pryor or Shazier are squeecky clean either but it just goes to show theres more to evaluate on these guys than most fans really know.

ILB Shazier, whom I like a lot, scares me because of recent reoccurring hamstring injuries that kept him from fully participating in the combine and even his pro day. The last thing we need around here is more players with bum hamstrings but hes good enough to take that chance on.

Stroh's picture

Lacy had hamstring issues for the combine too. As long as Shazier doesn't have a yearly history of hamstring issues like Matthews I wouldn't be too concerned.

I agree about Shazier, I really like him too. Used to be really big on Mosley, but his injury history is much more worrisome than Shazier's from what I can tell. I'm starting to lean toward taking Shazier right now. Packers could really use his speed to chase sideline to sideline. He's also better blitzing than Mosley. IMO both are outsanding prospects and either one of them would be a perfect fit at ILB.

Clay Zombo's picture

I keep thinking about what they will need to advance in the playoffs and having a guy like Shazier, who can spy and run down the Russell Wilsons and Colin Kaepernicks of the world, would help tremendously.

He is a 3 down LBer in my eyes and he also has elite speed for the position so im all for them taking Shazier at 21 as long as his hamstrings check out ok.

Otto's picture

I have two reservations with Shazier:
1. He's 233 lbs. Too light for ILB in the NFL? He seems slightly built.
2. Ohio State LBs. The Packers last one has solid but unspectacular. He's been paid 1st round money for 3rd round performance.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Otto, AGREED 100%

ben's picture

Good. I'm hoping we don't draft any of the 3, with or without any of the "red flags."

Kyle VanNoy, an OLB, is a much better ILB prospect than Mosely, without the injuries.(just check the tape) Ryan Shazier is an ILB with much more production than Mosely. He may be the best athlete in the entire draft. He would be a perfect fit as a nickel LB and as the packer's psycho safety.

"Eric Ebron, who ran a 4.57 shuttle and 7.49 three-cone drill. Ebron's overall Pro Day wasn't particularly consistent, with slower times (compared to his contemporaries) and dropping three passes during position workouts." -Overrated and a pre-Madonna to boot. I'd rather stick with Quarless, Stoneburner, & Bostick and take a 6th round flyer on any of these super Freaky Athletic TE prospects: Colt Lyerla, Blake Annen, or AC Leonard.

There may not be a 1st round caliber safety in the draft. I'd much rather take Bucannon or Ward over Dix. I'd also just as soon take Pryor, Joyner, Brooks, Exum, Dixon, or Reynolds. Call me crazy, and I know you will, Ryan Shazier might be the best "in the box" safety in the draft.

Stroh's picture

Shazier is NOT a Safety. He played LB and is a perfect fit at ILB for the Packers.

Clinton-Dix is the perfect Safety for the Packers. He's the best deep FS type Safety in the draft by far. He would allow Capers to disguise coverage since he and Burnett would be very compatible and interchangeable. Bucannon in the late 2nd or early 3rd would be good value.

ben's picture

I said, "Ryan Shazier is an ILB", "he would be a perfect fit as a nickel LB and as the packer's psycho safety."

Then Stroh feels the need to inform everyone that "Shazier is NOT a Safety. He played LB and is a perfect at LB for the packers."

(Thank Stroh, What would we do without you)

Clinton-Dix is the best deep FS type safety in the draft? BY FAR?

1st of all, Dix isn't by far a f'ing thing. 2nd of all, Dix would give us 2 deep FS safety types. That's great but we're not a tampa 2. We're looking for more of a "in the box" type to compliment Burnett, Like Hyde for instance who excels in man to man coverage, run support, tackling, and blitzing the quarterback. Everyone can agree Burnett's game isn't in run support or rushing the passer. You really want to argue how another "deep FS type safety" is " the PERFECT safety for the packers"?

"Bucannon would be good value in the late second or early 3rd"?

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He would be a steal late second/ early 3rd and good value in the early 2nd or even late 1st. At least according to anyone not delusional.

Stroh's picture

There's no such thing as a pyscho safety. And the safeties in psycho have nothing to do w/ that particular package in the front 7.

There are different types of SS and Burnett is more a SS in the Packers scheme. See some teams want SS that are big hitters and run support safeties, but other teams want SS that are more coverage in nature. Such is the case w/ Burnett who matches up very well on TE's. Why do you think Jimmy Ward, at about 5'11 190 is considered a SS? Its not becuz he's an enforcer in the run game, its due to his coverage abilities.

Burnett in the Packers scheme is considered the SS, not a FS.

Maybe you should learn or read instead of just blurting out any disagreement. That way you wouldn't be wrong!

ben's picture

Whether it's "psycho" or "okie" or "whatever", Capers and the Packers have defensive packages that utilize a linebacker at the safety position.

You pretending otherwise for the sake of argument then feeling the need to "inform" us about different types of safeties is what make you a jerkoff stroh.

Stroh's picture

Whatever.... Just showing your true colors once someone can show can give info that shows your wrong. Packers don't use LB at Safety in the psycho packages.

Birney the baker's picture

The winner!! Ben V, good job at humiliating this idiot Strohkingoff. As you said "for the sake of argument". That's what this douche bag does. He purposely tries to get into a scrap with you or anyone by insulting you just enough and than acts like you are the guy that is the one with the problem. He also can't help it but say how wrong you are.

He's been playing this same game for years now. Being a dick is who he is. Just glad to see you fighting back with the moron and calling him out. That's what more people need to do here. Call him out, report him to Cheeesehead TV and have him banned.

Stroh is like a dentist that sees 5 patients at the same time. Right after he insulted you and got you all pissed off, he then checks to see what I said then he responds to me. He then goes to his numerous other Packers boards he frequents on a daily basis to check his "traps" there and see if someone said something about him from the bait/insults he put out the night before. He then insults and argues with them. This goes on 24/7. This is his life. He won't stop as he's incapable of it. He's an epic nut in total denial.

Stroh's picture

There is no winner, just you poor losers that have to resort to calling others names and obsessing and trolling over what I have to say. The loser is YOU far more than anyone else and the others that come here to talk Packers and football. Yet you continue to ruin every thread w/ your obsession over me!

Birney the baker's picture

Seems to me it was you that ruined it by insulting Ben V who simply had an opinion on the safeties and linebackers. You knew exactly what you were doing when you purposely attacked the guy. There was no need to talk to him like that!!

Again, for everyone that is reading this I am urging you all to contact CheesheadTv to have Stroh banned once and for all from this place. He needs to be taught that bullying people like Ben and myself will not be tolerated anymore at CheesheadTV. He will be fine trust me as he's on virtually every Packers board imaginable doing exactly as he's doing here. Let's send this asshole to the trash bin. Take it to Twitter, Facebook etc. Let the world know that Stroh or "Hartman" as he's known on other Packers boards is a bully and his mouth officially needs to be silenced here permanently!!

Stroh's picture

Banned? For what? LMOA I've provided proof of almost everything I've said. WHile all you do is ruin every thread by starting w/ insults and name calling. If anyone should be banned its the person causing all the issues! I don't respond to your comments about football, yet when I comment on football you respond w/ name calling and trolling behavior!

You and Ben can't finish a discussion w/ football so you resort to name calling. Your obsession w/ me is ruining EVERY thread. Its pretty pathetic and you need psychiatric help if your that obsessed w/ someone on the internet.

Your trolling is the only issue on this site and your preventing Packer fans from discussing football!

Birney the baker's picture

Your obsession with yourself and your importance is what is ruining every thread. I will continue to be here and punch you in the mouth daily if I deem it appropriate. Until you learn to respect the people here you will continue to be followed around like you are some punk and I am Dirty Hairy!! Now go ahead, make my day!!

Stroh's picture

Your not punching anyone. You can't backup anything you say football or otherwise. Just a pathetic internet troll.

Birney the baker's picture

I'm not talking football you moron. I am talking about YOU!! As far as backup is concerned, you Strohkinoff have always been a career backup to pretty much everyone here. lol This is why you do most of your talking now in the offseason when the starters are on vacation. When the season starts Paul Ott Carruth comes back and you go back to being a career nobody. Keep yapping away about how great you are champ I mean chump!!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

You know what Tom? When I read your posts I see almost exactly the same name calling, argumentative, narrow minded, overbearing blowhard behavior you decry in Stroh.

Stroh's picture

Thanks for noticing. He wants to have the guy who talks football banned while trolling every comment I make and even when I don't make a comment at all he still obsessively trolls about me... I admit I'm not perfect, but at least I don't call him names in every comment I make. Heck I don't even respond to comments he makes unless he trolls one I make about football.

Stroh's picture

Just remember your the one who disputed, in rather poor taste, what I said...

"Burnett played largely as the strong safety last season" and "Darren Perry has always said that the two safeties must be interchangeable"

However Burnett can play both SS and FS which will allow the Packers to get whichever type of Safety is the best player available if/when they draft that position.

BTW what team is it you scout for that we should take your word over that of all the internet scouts or our own opinions?!

ben's picture

Just remember, blah blah blah blah blah.....

murphy's picture

Stay classy.

The TKster's picture

Mosley, Shazier, Clinton-Dix, Pryor, or Ebron. I think one of those 5 will be GB's first rounder.

The TKster's picture

When GB had Reggie White I often heard that potential "locker room problem" players were less risky because of Reggie's strong leadership. What is the current pulse of the team like? Is there enough leadership on board for GB to be a little more confident that a guy like Ebron would fall into line?

Stroh's picture

I don't think they lack leadership per se, however they simply don't have anyone w/ the ultra strong leadership of a Reggie White, or even Leroy Butler. Woodson might have been close to that when he was in GB. Right now they don't have that kinda leader that just demands that everyone follows him. Rodgers is to some degree, but not like Reggie.

ballark's picture

"Right now they don't have that kinda leader that just demands that everyone follows him."

What are you basing this on?

Stroh's picture

So you tell who has the aura of a Reggie White on the team?

Like I said I don't think they lack leadership, but they don't have anyone, Rodgers included, that carries the same authority that Reggie did. Rodgers is very well liked and respected, he just doesn't have it to the degree that Reggie did.

MarkinMadison's picture

It would have to be #12 keeping him in line. Can't say that I thought he handled Finley particularly well over the years. And he doesn't seem to be quite the leader in the locker room that #4 was in his prime. But the relative age and power dynamic with Ebron would be very different than it was with Finley. It is at least possible that Ebron would be so thrilled to be playing with such a high caliber quarterback that he would at least listen to #12 a lot more quickly than Finley apparently did. At least for the first couple of years.

4thand1's picture

AR is older and wiser and is turning out to be a great leader. If a rookie has issues with listening to established vets, someone has to kick him in the ass.

jh9's picture

I trust TT will use his due diligence on all prospective draftees. Just because someone doesn't have a history of injuries doesn't insure an injury-free career. All we need to do is look at the recent history of Nick Perry and Casey Hayward.

Drafting is an inexact science. All one can do is gather as much information as one can and balance everything to find the best player. But most definitely, I believe we need to upgrade our S and ILB positions with the first two picks in the draft.

Allan Murphy's picture

only ha ha dix the other two I pass on !

HankScorpio's picture

The red flag mentioned on Ebron is anything but minor. A me-first player does a team little good. Those kinds of players are in it for the name on the back of the jersey, not the one of the front (well, you know what I mean). If half of what Tony Pauline alleges is accurate, it's a huge concern.

I'm no doctor so I can't say if the injury issues on Mosley are a concern. But I can say that given all the recent injury problems the Packers have had, the last thing they need is another guy with medical concerns. Especially at LB.

MarkinMadison's picture

I'm a little suspicious. We're into disinformation season. Nobody heard squat about this until a couple of weeks ago. And it's not like you can't have a guy like this on your team. Finley and Vernon Davis both fit that bill at the TE position. Tons of WRs have been "me-first" guys but found a way to be productive assets to their teams. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not have it. But if TT thinks this guy is a future pro bowler, I'd not fault him for taking him. My bigger concern is I'd rather see TT find a future pro bowler at S or ILB.

Stroh's picture

Disinformation comes from the teams. But a "scout" like Pauline doesn't have anything to lose or gain by saying what he did. This isn't a case of teams leaking info hoping a potential player they want will then fall to them.

MarkinMadison's picture

Did Pauline ID his sources? Did he talk to teammates/team employees directly, or did he hear it second hand? If he heard it second hand were his sources NFL scouts? If he is that big of a head case, has it shown up in a tangible way, or is it something to talk about because it is draft season?

Stroh's picture

Pauline is likely his own source. He talks to all the prospects too, not to mention the scouts of other teams. All or most of the internet scouts do. They also get opportunities to talk to people at the universities. Guess it comes down to how much you trust their opinions. I think they're pretty credible but certainly don't have the resources of the teams. But it does make his opinions mostly unbiased.

MarkinMadison's picture

"Pauline is likely his own source." That would mean that he witnessed things himself. That is probably not what you mean. He would need to have multiple sources on the team, and he would need to vet them, before I would put much weight on this issue, and even then I'm not sure if it matters a whole lot.

HankScorpio's picture

Mark,

There are plenty of me-first receivers that put up huge numbers. Very rarely does it help a team win a title. Two guys that come to mind are Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. Both were undeniably great WRs--match up nightmares that opposing defenses needed to account for. They combined to play in 2 SBs, both losses.

I agree that Pauline might not be giving out accurate info. Given what I think I know about TT, the Packers are very carefully vetting the whispers....or completed doing so already.

Nick Perry's picture

If all these players have all these issues and red flags, don't be surprised if Thompson takes a Wide Receiver. Nelson and Cobb are FA next year. Yes, we know he wants to sign them, but their not signed yet. We as Packers fans have been spoiled with all the WR talent this team has had over the past few years. It's getting thinner and thinner each year.

Stroh's picture

I firmly believe the Packers will draft a WR this year. My guess would be w/ one of either the 2nd or 3rd rd picks. I like Donte Moncrief a lot... More than some of the lower end 1st rd picks. Love to be able to get him w/ our own 3rd, but probably have to use the 2nd to get him. I don't see them taking a TE this year. They have both Quarless and Bostic on the way up and will want to see if one of them takes and holds the TE job.

BubbaOne's picture

Here's a scenario for Trader Ted: Houston and Cleveland need a QB but maybe they don't take one w/ picks 1 and 4 respectively. Then Houston figuring they need to trade up ahead of Cleveland's second 1st round pick at 26 trade picks 33 and 65 to Ted for pick 21. Ted could get 3 great players in the second round including Moncrief. Also teams may be willing to overpay for pick 33 since it's the 1st pick of the second day so Trader Ted could trade back a half dozen or so spots and pick up an additional 3rd rounder which would given him 6 of the top 98 picks...okay, I'll stop dreaming now.

8BitEra's picture

Unfortunately, there's no way this happens when Houston can trade down, still get their guy and score an extra pick or two. It's a helluva dream, though!

BubbaOne's picture

W/ no clear cut studs at the top and a deep draft through two rounds or more teams are unlikely to trade up so Houston may not have a trade partner for # 1. I just read Oakland loves Derek Carr and he also was tied to Houston. It's all speculation but Oakland's 36th and 67th pick equals the 21st pick.
If Houston could have Clowney as a bookend to Watt and their QB of the future w/ their 1st 3 picks I think they would be ecstatic. Likewise Oakland could be ecstatic w/ Watkins, Mack or one of the OT's at 5 and their QB of the future w/ their next two picks...hey, what can I say...I'm in REM sleep.

Stroh's picture

Hey Bubba. I agree that would be ideal. I've heard that Hou doesn't necessarily want a QB, especially if its the 1st overall. If Hou stays at #1 and takes Clowney, They very well may want to trade into the bottom 1/3 of the 1st rd, and getting ahead of Cleve at #26 would be necessary as well, but only if Cleve doesn't use #4 on a QB. That would depend on a guy like Carr falling to the end 1st. There's got to be a viable QB candidate on the board at 21 for that to happen.

I'm starting to think its possible only one of the QB's go in the top 5. They just aren't that good to rate in the top12 picks IMO. But we know they tend to get over-drafted just by virtue of being a QB.

Getting 3 picks in your scenario in the top 65 would be outstanding!

BubbaOne's picture

Yes, that was my scenario...no QB's taken at 1 or 4 and a viable option at 21 for teams (including Oakland) to come calling to Trader Ted.

"...its possible only one of the QB's go in the top 5. They just aren't that good to rate in the top12 picks "
....Shhh, either I want the above scenario to work OR a whole bunch of QB's to be taken before pick 21 to push down more choices for TT at 21.

Off topic: Zack Martin is ranked late teens/early 20's. He's projected at T or G but w/ his size and athletism I wonder if he could be a pro bowl C. MM wants to get bigger and more athletic at C. He'd be a helluva anchor to what's shaping up to be an above avg O-line.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I recently posted a fairly long comment about trading down. As noted above, trading down to #33 might net GB pick #67. without going through a scenario to explain each teams motivation, I note that Carolina at #28 has the right picks: GB might net pick #92 by trading down. Cleveland also seems viable. Trading down to #26 might net Cleveland's #106 or so and trading down to Cleveland's #35 might net pick #71. Not sure if packer fans would want to trade all the way down from #21 to #33 or #35. The mock drafts change significantly every year, but this year there seems to be a lot more volatility. I have seen some mocks were there is no player I am interested in available at #21, and others were 2 or 3 players of a group that includes Ha-Ha, Mosley, Nix, Evans, even Dennard and Lewan are available at #21, and others where Gilbert and Tuitt are available late 1st and early 2nd round, respectively. IDK who TT likes or has flagged, but I myself would find it hard to pass by trading down on a couple players in that group listed above. I trust in TT to choose a quality player at #21 or to fleece another team by trading down!

Jordan's picture

I think you could make an argument for trading down, or staying put at 21, or even trading back in to the first.

It's hard to predict what the perennial loser franchises like the Bills, Browns, et al will do in picks 1-20. Odds are they will try to draft splashy players like the bills did in 2010 with cj spiller at # 9.

You might think the perennial loser franchises will learn, but they never do. It's in their DNA.

DrealynWilliams's picture

What has this comment section turned into?! Sheesh!

Birney the baker's picture

Complaining about it will do nothing Drealyn. Contact CheeseheadTV and that goes for everyone else as well and demand they ban Stroh. It's as simple as that. All these so called arguments will go away. That's all this guy lives for. You want to get rid of dirt you have to clean it up.

DrealynWilliams's picture

I'm not complaining. Just a bit caught off guard. I'm still fairly new to this site,so I only know about the light jabs posters throw back and forth with "Cow". What you two have going on is on a different level.

Stroh's picture

Hey Dra, whats up. As you can plainly see, its all one sided. He's taken up a campaign to ban the guy that talks football while he trolls every comment I make. LMAO

DrealynWilliams's picture

Yea,I see it is pretty much 1-sided. As far as the whole "safety argument" situation goes I'm with you (Stroh) on that one.

Birney the baker's picture

Yo Dra, what is up!! It's me Tom Birney.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Dear Drealyn: I have been reading this site for a couple of years now. There were some jabs taken between commenters, even the occasional sharp elbow thrown, but just in the last couple of weeks things have really escalated. One can certainly control the language and tone of one's own posts. Thinking back on my own posts, I regret one post in which I described somebody else's argument (actually I think it was CD's article) as inane. So, I am sorry for that. I will be sure to moderate my own language and tone in future posts.

gbslapshot's picture

So....Your solution for people that argue with you is censorship?

Stroh's picture

I don't even mean to argue I mostly give my opinion and point out what I've read (w/ links sometimes) to backup my opinion. I apologize if that's arguing. I don't consider it to be but if it comes off that way toward you I'm sorry. Its not intentional.

BubbaOne's picture

Stroh,
I usually find good insight and info in your postings. It's not the msg, it's the delivery that I feel get you in trouble w/ others. As I've found in my men's group making "I" statements is more constructive in being heard. When I make others wrong they're more defensive and less willing to hear/read what I have to say...just saying, AHO!

Birney the baker's picture

Yes, censor, ban, whatever you want to call it this guy needs to go now!! This is how things work now in this country in case you haven't noticed. Notice how the SOB is suddenly acting all nice to people again. Just the mere threat of banishment has neutered him. He's like an entirely different person now. That will last approximately 6 posts maybe even less and he'll be back at it arguing and insulting people. Just watch!!

I think I speak for the majority people here when I say he needs to be banned. Some of you guys are new so it's understandable why you can't see thru the guy but rest assured trust me when I say this guy is the world's biggest asshole.

gbslapshot's picture

I have been following Brian since Railbird Central was not even part of CheeseheadTV so do not assume that I am new. Honestly all I see is that Stroh has an opinion and that opinion may differ from yours. That is no excuse to censor someone in AMERICA...Our country may work in that way but if you can't see that is wrong then I pity you.

Stroh's picture

Thanks for noticing. I appreciate you taking the time to say it. I figured he would bury himself w/ his obsession pretty quickly. You and Brad said what I suspected would come thru soon enough.

JimTaylor31's picture

I am new posting but a long time reader of the posts. Just my observations:
1) Stroh is sometimes rude and full of himself but he is obviously a knowledgeable Packer fan and his observations are worth reading.
2) Some folks have thin skins.
3) I think picking a WR on the second day is a great idea. If the Blue Chip defensive guys are gone at pick #21 I'd be good with a WR as long as he is BPA.

Stroh's picture

Good observation James. Love your music BTW. Yeah he seems to have become obsessed w/ me. I appreciate your compliment and will try to curb myself. But thanks for noticing what's going on.

Stroh's picture

3. BTW I completely agree about taking a WR. Would prefer 3rd rd after using 1 and 2 on ILB and S. Personally I like Donte Moncrief a lot. Great potential to develop into a #1 WR in a year or so... Right about the time Jordy might be slowing down.

He's a link to read about him...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1878014/donte-moncrief

Unfortunately I doubt he makes it to the Packer pick in the 3rd.

JimTaylor31's picture

Moncrief does look like a guy who could develop into a solid WR. We do need some quality depth at WR given the attrition rate. I doubt if we'll have Cobb/Nelson/Boykin all healthy for 16 games so another solid WR would be very beneficial. A guy like Moncrief/Jordan Mathews etc. who could be a #4 this year and develop along the way would be an excellent draft pick up.
The "James Taylor" is actually after Jim Taylor #31. My favorite Packer growing up. The singer does have some good music though. I agree with that.

8BitEra's picture

After the combine and his pro day, I have a gut feeling some team believes in Moncrief enough to take him in the 2nd. Perhaps even as early as the mid-2nd. I agree with you, though. Moncrief with our 3rd would be a steal.

Stroh's picture

Possibly the Packers take him at #53. I wouldn't be opposed to that at all... Getting him in the 3rd is well below his overall ranking IMO. But #53 while possibly a little above his rating would be more than fine w/ me. I think he's going to be like Jordy... Might take till year 3 to become a great WR, but he could easily be every bit as good a Jordy given development.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

I saw Jim Taylor play. Tough, Tough, Fullback. He carried the ball enough to be a Halfback. I was wondering?, Did GB ever Retire AG's number, or give him any special recognition for breaking JT's yardage mark. That stood for quite a few years. What about the Ring Of Honor? Shouldn't both be there, or are they?? LVT

JimTaylor31's picture

JT was one tough SOB. I remember him playing against the NY Giants and Sam Huff. Brutal. Both guys would go out of their way to hit each other, with or without the ball. I'm not sure about the AG question but I don't think GB retired #30 and I don't know about the ring of honor. He does belong IMHO. I have a ton of respect for AG also.

Evan's picture

The Ring of Honor is only for NFL Hall of Famers (except Ron Wolf - who should be there one day). Taylor is there.

I'm not sure of the retired number qualifications - I think it's pretty much a case by case basis. There are only 5 players so far. If Lambeau and Hornung don't have their numbers "officially" retired yet, I don't think Ahman has a chance. Favre will be #6.

Ahman was an absolute beast, but I doubt he'll ever get his number retired or make the ring.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Evan, You're probably right, but with Jim Taylor being in the Ring, & Ahman breaking his yardage mark, that stood for a lot of years, I think he'd be in line for something. He's the Best we ever had at Halfback.. JMO.

Stroh's picture

I'm probably the biggest Ahman Green fan there is... My favorite Packer All Time. I agree that he won't likely even make the ring. It does take being inducted into Canton to get in the ring. Obviously the Packer HOF goes w/o saying. Unless he get "honorary" in the ring for being the Packers all time rushing leader, but that's highly unlikely. Too bad Holmgren wasted his 1st 2 years in Sea or he might very well be going into Canton. Add another 2500 yds and he might be a shoo in.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Stroh, I agree. Ahman Green was Good Enough to be in the HOF. The 1st time I saw him, he reminded me of Walter Payton. I personally think he is worth more recognition, than what he has gotten from GB. At least to this point. I don't think the fans who saw him play, will ever forget him. I know I won't. LVT

Stroh's picture

I don't know if you knew this but Ahman was a huge Walter Payton fan and watched a video of him before every game. He ran w/ the same kind of aggression and physicality that Walter did (lead to some fumbles too).

Fun Ahman Green facts.
1. Unfortunately never lead the NFL in rushing for a season. BUT he had the most rushing yards between the years '00 and '04. Over that 5 yr span no RB rushed for more yards in the NFL
2. Has the highest single season rushing total, that didn't lead the league. His 1883 in '03 was topped by Jamal Lewis over 2000 yds.
3. One of only 2 RB in NFL history to have 2 90 yard TD runs in his career. Bo Jackson was the other.

Ahman Green is under-appreciated by Packer fans IMO.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Stroh, Not by me. I do agree he's under appreciated by most. He's the best we've had, if you ask me. I sincerely meant the comment, comparing him to Walter Payton. No disrespect of any kind to Payton. He & Sayers would be my 2 picks. I just saw a lot of him in AG. That has to be a compliment.

Jordan's picture

A good article on Taylor's # retired.......or not retired. It's kinda sorta retired or not retired. ;)

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/99326524.html

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Jordan, Did you mean Paul Hornung? #5. If I'm not mistaken, they gave #5 to Don Majakowski to begin with, & he ask if he could have a different number because it belonged to Paul Hornung.

Jordan's picture

Yes, I meant hornung....Ty.

Imma Fubared's picture

Who doesn't have baggage? I would fear the 'me me me' guy. And all teams worry about someone who has the past and numerous major injuries. Unfortunately their is no perfect and that's the fun of it.
If teams always made great decisions and never ended up with a bum, then it would not be fun.
Personally I hate the pro days. These guys are agented up and those agents have brought in specialist to prime these guys and script the workouts so its kind of phony.
Its more about if I don't attend the combine you cannot see me side by side with my competition plus I can eck out another month to get in shape. Thats bs.

Otto's picture

Wait! A pass catching prima donna... NO WAY!
(sorry, just had to get that out of my system)

Warren Sapp, character questions/weed, fell draft day.
Randy Moss, character questions/weed, fell draft day.

These guys were a character concern coming into the NFL, so much so, they fell in the draft. They also feasted on the Packers for most of their careers.

The Packers have enough really talented guys that play 8 games a year because they're constantly injured (Mosley). Give me a risky character guy.

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