Packers Defense Has A Familiar Problem, and Other Musings

Aaron shares some random thoughts about the Packers defense.

I can't shake Sunday's loss. I started Tweeting some random musings about the defense. Thought I'd share. I look forward to your calm and considered responses.

 

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Comments (41)

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PackerPete's picture

November 12, 2013 at 11:56 am

I agree with most of the above, but:
1) Matthews clearly is not able to be an impact player at the moment. As OLB he has to use his hands a lot. So, even though Palmer is just a guy, I'd rather have him there than Matthews at the moment. The only time I saw anything from Clay was the 15 yards penalty...
2) Assume for a moment that Pickett retires and they'll let Raji go. Who they have left? Nobody who can stop the run... As inconsistent as Raji is, he warrants to get a contract. Pickett won't play much longer, Wilson is just a guy, Jolly is close to being done, and as we all know, DTs have the longest adjustment form college. And Datone is no run stopper...
3) Neither MD Jennings nor Banjo is the answer. Nor is Burnett...
4) Hyde is clearly better than Hayward at the moment, so why he isn't playing more is beyond imagination...
5) Why do the DB coaches still have jobs?

It sometimes is too easy to blame the coaches. In the end, it is not the scheme. Players were in position to prevent big plays for the Eagles. But they either slipped or ran into each other, or just didn't tackle. Now one can say ok then let's bench the guys who don't tackle, but ultimately the coaches came up with good schemes and the players didn't execute. If the first TD does not happen and Crosby makes the FGs, then this game would've taken a completely different direction. Nuff said...

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Mr Smith's picture

November 12, 2013 at 03:01 pm

IDK man. I think you can blame the scheme in conjuction with the players. With some creative blitzing in passing situations, the DB's won't have to hold coverage for impossibly long periods of time. Giving a QB all day to throw is putting the DB at a disadvantage; no matter how talented they may be.
The loss on Sunday was definitely flukey, but it definitely brought the defenses poor execution to light. And I'm a firm believer that a good scheme can make up for a lack of talent. And a good scheme with good talent, well, that's the goal.

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razor's picture

November 12, 2013 at 04:00 pm

Just a whole bunch of average players on defense. Scheme won't fix average players.

Packers have one of the best QB's ever and they are blowing it with a terrible defense, weak special teams and shaky o-line.

I think we all have been giving TT the benefit of the doubt, but scrounging low-budget talent and trying to coach them up is not working. Been trying to fix the defense the last 3 years - how's that working for ya?

I personally think that MM has his head up his ass. A couple of weeks ago he said that the key to success was to score more points than your opponent - REALLY!!!

Then he's all fired up that "something will change tomorrow" only to come up with "the defense has a problem in the 4th quarter" - REALLY IS THAT ALL!!!

The defense has a problem in all quarters or you wouldn't have to worry about the 4th quarter. GB defense has the worst red zone defense in all of nfl and no clear leader on the field.

Will someone please pass this along to MM. Mike you are over-thinking this. Your o-line is weak, your special teams are weak and your defense is terrible.

Keeping weak players around for 3-4 years don't work. Keeping players who are injured all the time don't work. The clock is ticking and time is running out.

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some guy's picture

November 12, 2013 at 11:55 pm

"as we all know, DTs have the longest adjustment form college."

What? That's the first time I've ever heard that. From what I've seen the common wisdom is that QB/WR/CB have the hardest transition.

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themasterfake's picture

November 13, 2013 at 05:06 am

and a Packer place kicker

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Stroh's picture

November 13, 2013 at 08:19 am

You haven't been paying attention. How many QB's are starting as rookies or 2nd year. They have a lot to learn but they are more NFL ready when they leave college. CB is a matter of athletic ability and some experience, but athletic ability dominates at CB. DL routinely takes into the 3rd season to really show their true ability.

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jclombardi's picture

November 12, 2013 at 11:57 am

Nagler, for once, you are right on target. Good tweets!!!!!!!

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:04 pm

I am glad you posted this Aaron. I saw your tweets and wanted to say I completely agree with you.

They have to get Jennings out of the Safety position. To me I would rather see them use Banjo. McMillan I would give another shot over Jennings. Its time to move on from the Doctor...

I see that Houston is releasing Ed Reed, so I'm sure there will be a lot of chatter about it. My question is at 35 is he better then Jennings, Banjo, McMillan?

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razor's picture

November 12, 2013 at 04:02 pm

Reed is a used up piece of shit.

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steven's picture

November 12, 2013 at 07:17 pm

Wow did ed reed dump you or aomething. Chill

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themasterfake's picture

November 13, 2013 at 05:07 am

lol

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jww56's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:04 pm

I agree with most of your opinion. Let's see what Banjo has. CJ Wilson is probably a foregone conclusion, since Pickett is hurt and by his own estimation, "...can't move." I think Raji will get big money somewhere, league is desperate for big athletic guys, even if they are inconsistent. Doesn't mean we have to pay it. I think we will be seeing more of Micah Hyde and Josh Boyd. I also think we need to take a chance with special teams and get Lattimore back on the field w/Hawk in the middle, he is much more dynamic and a surer tackler. And for God's sake please draft a safety high this April!

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Bibbon Hazel's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:05 pm

The Packers coaches are way too loyal. Whether its justifying a big pay day or rewarding "accountability" its terrible! Banjo should play over Jennings and LAttimore should be getting more snaps! Why is Hyde not on the field?? Bill Michaels said this morning that Thompson is top 5 talent evaluator in the league. I agree and beleive McCarthy and Capers are bottom 5 talent utilizers!! Players making the plays need to play. I dont care how much the other guy is getting paid or how long he's been accountable!!

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:15 pm

I won't say that I agree with you that McCarthy is a bottom 5 talent utilizer.

But I will say I do get frustrated in that he doesn't always use players at what their best at.
For example:
Finley is a huge target. Why didn't they use him more in the redzone, especially where he can use his size?
Franklin is a fast, shifty back, who showed that once he is in the open field he can make things happen. Why haven't they figured out ways to involve him in the passing game yet? (ala-Reggie Bush/Darren Sproles)
Since Finley has went down, why did it take until this week to start using Brandon Bostick in the receiving game. Behind Finley he is their best receiving TE.
Lacy, is a pounding RB, Why on 3rd and 1 they don't use him more? Not saying every time, just saying more...

To me the one I am still scratching my head is that they haven't used Franklin at all. I understand he had his fumbles. But they need as many players to help the team out as much as possible. His speed is something that Lacy and Starks don't have, even though Starks has shown some great explosion the last few games.

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm

Finley is/was a huge target yes,but he's small when fighting for the ball.

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:53 pm

When was the last time they tried a jump ball to him in the endzone? I don't remember.

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some guy's picture

November 12, 2013 at 11:58 pm

Redskins game. It worked.

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Michael from Winnipeg's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:11 pm

Here is the real worry.
579, wasnt supposed to happen again.
After a nice October, of not giving up too many yards, we are heading towards that number. Now, its only 2 games into November, but giving up 400 yards in the past two games, has to upset MM because he can see the trend of giving up big yards, or, "bend but dont break" coming back. Plus, no turnovers. The secondary play has to improve, and I dont know if it should be the coaches being let go, or if a message has to be sent to the players and have them benched, which MM doesnt do, but maybe its time?

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drcpackers's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm

both Brad Jones and Lattimore started at OLB. Jones played a good bit after Aaron Kampman got hurt his last year with us. Lets move one of those two, or both, to the OLB rotation as well. Hell, at this point, what could it hurt. They are both very good athletes, and I've seen them both drop into coverage adequately. Hyde - get him on the field! the dude is a ball player. Banjo has earned his chance and CL Wilson needs to be in the rotation.

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Lou's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:29 pm

My humble opinion is that Micah Hyde is the solution to our safety problems. I think he is today what Charles Woodson was supposed to be (before he completely lost it) in 2012: a base safety who can drop into a CB hybrid position in nickel and/or dime. I know that a mid-season position change is tough, but he seems pretty instinctive to me and would only be playing true safety about 50% of the time. What do you think?

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:37 pm

I agree with you... I think Hyde would be perfect in the role. If they did that they could maintain their base 3-4 front and would allow a lot more flexibility.

Having a safety that is basically a corner is huge for defenses.

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Evan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:55 pm

With Hayward hurt/ineffective, they can't really afford to move Hyde.

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:57 pm

What I'm thinking is move him to Safety in base and move him to slot in Nickel/Dime...

I know it won't happen, but I think it should happen.

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Evan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:02 pm

Oh, I see...that makes more sense/seems more realistic. But, yeah, a mid-season position change seems unlikely.

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themasterfake's picture

November 13, 2013 at 05:11 am

i disagreed with this but no longer, hyde will have a learning curve as safety but I'm sure he will find the ball in the air and react to it with a bit more of a clue than what we've been seeing

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Tim's picture

November 12, 2013 at 12:36 pm

The d-line situation will be VEEEEEEERY interesting to watch in the off-season. Raji is the most talented but the most inconsistent, Pickett is the most consistent but the oldest, Jolly has played well but his whole situation is uncharted territory, Worthy will be healthy but he isn't the 300+ pounder that the team seems to like, and Boyd is a complete wild card who hasn't played. How does this all shake out?

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KennyPayne's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:16 pm

My guess is that the DT/run stopping DEs will struggle mightily in 2014 and TT will address these positions in the 2015 draft -- just like he has been trying to address the pass rushing DE position ever since Cullen Jenkins left and like he has tried to address the OLB position opposite Clay since, well, we went to the 3-4 five years ago.

In any event, I fully expect the D to not be top 10 (that is championship caliber) in 2014 just as it has not been at any time other than 2010 since ARod became a marquee QB.

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Evan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:00 pm

Speaking of Matthews struggling with the club, what the hell does he have to do to get a holding call? I know bitching about the refs is pointless, but it's infuriating how opposing teams get away with blatantly holding him.

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:30 pm

Especially Philly's first TD pass. He was held badly on that one...

But in the Philly game the refs were absolutely horrible. For both sides actually.

There should have been at least 3 more pass interference penalty's against Philly, and I know of 2 holding penalty's.

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Beep's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:32 pm

Raji will get a big payday, just not with the Packers. The Vikings come to mind as Kevin Williams is getting long in the tooth.

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pooch's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:43 pm

TAKE A SHOT AT ED REED,WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE

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pooch's picture

November 12, 2013 at 01:44 pm

DID YOU HEAR MR TED????GET ED

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Point Packer's picture

November 12, 2013 at 03:28 pm

It won't happen, but Ed Reed would be a step up from all current safeties on our roster minus Burnett. And with Burnett, its probably a wash.

Worst grouping of all positions on this team, by far.

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themasterfake's picture

November 13, 2013 at 05:12 am

wonder what Razor thinks about Ed Reed?

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4thand1's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:04 pm

I have a little cash to donate. Capers and M D can buy a 1st class ticket out of town. How on earth this team sees potential in Jennings is ridiculous.

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KennyPayne's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:09 pm

At this point, I do not think the D has the players to get it done, sorry Aaron.

There is ZERO pass rush out of Raji, Picket, and Jolly when they are on the field.

Brad Jones has been a huge disappointment at ILB as has Burnett at S.

As for MD Jennings/Banjo/McMillian, not even Belichek could get much out of this trio.

I look at the talent on D in 2010 (4 playmakers in Collins, Tramon, Clay, and Woodson) and the current squad and there simply is no comparison.

I know it is sacrilege in GB but does anyone think the Pack has overvalued/overpaid the likes of Brad Jones and Morgan Burnett (like they overvalued/overpaid Hawk for so many years before finally cutting his pay)?

I just do not see the talent.

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RC Packer Fan's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:14 pm

'There is ZERO pass rush out of Raji, Picket, and Jolly when they are on the field.'

That is not their job. Their jobs are to plug holes and occupy the OL so the LB's can run freely to the ball.

They will never have huge stats in rushing the QB in this defense.

Also their primary job is to stop the run. They are not being asked to rush the QB.

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KennyPayne's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:23 pm

Actually, Raji, Pickett, and Jolly are supposed to PUSH the pocket back so edge rushers arrive at their target. I agree they are not the players supposed to make the sack but they are not supposed to be statues on pass plays either.

This is what Keisel, Hampton et al. did when Pitt was good, what Haloti Ngata does in Balt. and what Justin Smith does in SF (The most underrated NT at this in the past decade was Jamaal Williams in SD who made Merriman and Shaun Phillips a bunch of money by collapsing the pocket. A 3-4 pass rush requires pressure up the middle.

We get ZERO movement up the middle. Instead, our big men simply stand up. Then, when the outside rushers arrive at their appointed spot the QB has running lanes to escape the pocket.

Take a look at slow-footed Nick Foles doing precisely that on repeated occasions in Sunday's game.

You can afford to have one 3-4 DLineman who gets no penetration not 2 (especially when we are in a 2-4 alignment most of the time on passing downs),

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themasterfake's picture

November 13, 2013 at 05:15 am

right what bugged me about McCown was his ability to step up and avoid the outside pressure because nothing was coming from the middle

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Longshanks's picture

November 12, 2013 at 02:24 pm

Don't think they resign Raji. Jolly, Wilson and Boyd are cheaper and just as effective plus Worthy is coming back. Daniels is already a Pro Bowl calibur player. Finley probably not signed due to injury risk. Bostic on the rise?

The defense was at it's highest level when Lattimore and Hyde had increased roles. Hayward and Jones return and things get worse. Play more of Lattimore, Hyde and Banjo. I call it the George Costanza opposite theory. Teddy Tee knows about this theory as he talked about it at the combines this past year.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/24/packers-thompson-channels-george-costanz...

M.D. Jennings is probably only here to play backup to "Doc" McKenzie if for some reason he goes down to injury while checking out injured players on the field.

Longshanks

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larry valdes's picture

November 12, 2013 at 08:36 pm

Here we go lets get ed reed he will be an up grade for and we will teach our secondary how to tackle believe me this is your chance ted please sign him tonite so we could sleep beter go for it.

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