If all of the above occur, they could REAL good!
Two of the three are pretty big ifs though.
I'd also throw in IF MLF improves in game adjustments and awareness as a large IF.
JB and MLF are my biggest concerns as health is always a wildcard.
GPG

Dbl,

I'll add another variable: IF our O line dominates at every position. If they get pushed off the ball and allow QB pressure? JL10 needs to do superstar things. I'm not saying he can't, it's just not the sort of first year starting we want to see. If they dominate? Everything just WORKS. And we've also seen that's where MLF shines. Even in that case I hope JL10 doesn't try threading the needle, and doesn't even take the time to look for open WRs at first; run heavy, target RBs and TEs for quick releases on short plays, and move the chains.

Once that's established as a threat and everybody's confident, THEN the deep ball becomes a viable option but I still don't want to see him trying to thread needles like we're so used to seeing from our last 2 QBs. MLF should be able to scheme guys open; can JL10 find them? It's ok that none of this is proven, that means an easy schedule and flying under the radar. Does this come together in the first half of week 1? Not until after the bye? I'm not too concerned about that, we all know they're going to be better late in the season, and better yet next year. 2025 truly contending for a Lombardi is my big hope, and following that up can redeem the last 30 years which we all feel had way too few SB appearances.

That's all possible without JL10 being much like #4 or AR12. Right now we can only speculate about how much of the talent to be able to do that is already in the building, and unfortunately our two headed monster in the backfield doesn't have another decade in their prime.

It'll be fun to see them show up to play on the first play of the season for a change. I don't think that's been the fault of the coaches, and this will be a real test of what the entire coaching staff has been up to all year.

GPG!

I would say 7-10 or 8-9 is very good possibility if Love plays like AR last year. Any worse than that and this team wins 6 games or less.

I just don't trust this defense or Barry.

LH, "we'll start 2023 with a better line than last year and our QB is going to play better and we're going to win the division."

Took the words right out of my...fingers????

I think the line will rival the one from 2020 if it stays healthy.

I was going to post something along those lines, but now I don't have to.

I'll add that it's farfetched to think that we can't contend for the division. I think that's also the easiest path to the playoffs.

At the moment, with all that needs to be seen, not hoped for, yes, it's ridiculous, but not far-fetched that camp can prove it not so.

I get it, 'hope' is the key for many, with 'if this, that and other things' running a close second, which ignores the reality in front of you. I play the reality game, not hope. Furthermore, I have to see the play in preseason, which will strengthen or weaken my reality at this time. I'm a betting person in Vegas, hope does not figure in my decisions. I let hope dictate my lottery numbers.

There is way too little real information on the Packers, and an exuberant amount of HOPE.
How does anyone know if MLF really has a 'Complexity of Illusion'. Has it truly been witnessed, had Rodgers buried it, or did Rodgers expose it as being an Illusion to itself. I don't know, but I expect to see the truth one way or another. There are many pressing questions that need answers, and why I can't ignore the more apt reality, at this time.

I don't diss people for their choice for optimism, I diss those who diss my choice of reality.

Reality has a better record.

You seem to think I don't want the Packers to win, I do, but I drive with eyes open, and don't wear goggles that blind, even if it's the fashion of fans.

My only question is that so much of the player talent is completely unproven. Until Gary comes back, we have an unproven rookie and a couple of role players rushing the edge along with Preston Smith who is not on the rising end of his career. Kenny Clark, who has been underperforming, is joined by? Question mark Slaton and question mark Wyatt. Beyond them? Even less experience. The ILB underperformed last year as well and it's not certain they will bounce back.

The TE group? Completely unknown. Rookie TEs that have any kind of impact are in rarified air, leaving the not-too-exciting Deguara and roster bubble Davis as the experienced contributors. We think Watson and Doubs have the talent to be good, but they were both hampered by injuries last season and didn't face any defenses that specifically focused on stopping them. That will change this year. Beyond those two? Only question marks.

The QB is a huge question mark as well. Looks like he might have NFL talent, but we just don't know.

And you said "unlike Rodgers the last few years," based on what? You think handling a grueling 16 or 17 game season not including playoffs was easy? You think it didn't take hard work and the right attitude to lead a team to 13 wins a season 3 years in a row? Despite an underperforming defense? And last year? Way underperforming defense most of the year, a broken thumb, an offense led by an UDFA WR who had cracked the 500 yard/season once in his career? That's your number one? And an aging but cagey slot receiver who is injury prone. And then throw in some rookies. How about TE last year? Tonyan didn't even look like he could run. But let's throw shade on Aaron Rodgers b/c that makes us feel better.

Honestly, the only path to the playoffs this year in the North I see is to win the division. Nobody will run away with it like last year (Vikes). It will take 10 wins to get in the playoffs and 10 wins wins the division, IMHO.

"First off, not many teams have Green Bay's Oline. They are for sure top ten, maybe top five"

It's one of the key reasons why we can hope that the offense won't take a step back with Love rather than ARod. With a little luck, some competition in camp will help galvanize the right side and they'll hit the ground running. They need to stay healthy, though, and we have to remember that this is the same coaching staff that thought they could get away with Hanson and Newman on the right side a year ago...

"Second, their defense was 6th (not sure that's right but again top ten) against the pass and have key players 100% this year."

The offense needs to be more proficient in the red zone...or better with chunk scoring plays. Putting more 7s on the board (and not settling for 3s) puts pressure on opposing teams to try to keep up--which forces them to make plays against the defensive strength of the Packers. If the safety position isn't at least capable, we might see some issues pop up, though.

The Packers were 4-5 in one-score games last season. Being a little better at converting in the red zone would've made this a playoff team a year ago.

"Third, Green Bay's ST has improved from 32 to probably top ten this year."

Just figure out how to protect on punts and kicks, force FCs or bring returners down regularly with the first man, and don't take dumb penalties.

And you may ask yourself, "Well, how did I get here?"
You may ask yourself, "What is that beautiful house?"
You may ask yourself, "Where does that highway go to?"
And you may ask yourself, "Am I right, am I wrong?"
And you may say to yourself, "My God, what have I done?"

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was

The ST has improved to top ten exactly how? By losing the highest scoring player in the history of the Green Bay Packers? What are you basing your projection on?

Yes, GB was good against the pass, but teams didn't have to pass to beat them. They could just run all over them. Weren't they at the bottom of the barrel on run defense? And how is the passing defense going to hold up when the defensive line is such a question mark. We have no idea how Slaton or Wyatt will actually turn out. Plus pass rush is key, and we have Preston Smith, an unknown rookie and two depth guys to start the season. They would all have to play better than hoped to have a decent pass rush to help the secondary.

HB,

I agree that "game manager" is mostly all we need from JL10. I think he has the maturity to not fire his cannon every chance he gets just because he can, unlike Favre. I hope to see no throws into tight windows, and not even giving plays time to develop a deep threat until dink and dunk with quick releases is firmly established as a viable threat. Hopefully behind a dominant O line.

After all that? JL10's cannon for an arm combined with finding truly open receivers can join the mix, and even be subtle at first and sneaky.

Yeah it'll take a lot for all that to come together; it'll take a whole team. I see talent all over the field!

GPG

And you once believed they couldnt win without Favre either. The audacity of this team to go and win a super bowl just 3 years later.

It is beyond ridiculous to think the team attitude was not all for one under Rodgers. By all accounts he was a complete leader in the locker room. The rookie WR may not have been his best friends, but by god, he got production out of both of them until they went down with injuries. They did amazingly well, which plays so strongly against the meme that Rodgers doesn't "mentor" young players and is not a team player. He had high standards. That's what you want from your QB. That's what Brady demanded and he turned out to be pretty good.

I'll go with what Micah Hyde said recently about Rodgers even after being with BUF for a few years:

“I love 12. That’s my guy,” Hyde said. He added, “He’s a loving, great person. He’s one of the best teammates I ever had.”

Gotta get the cheese in Tomah. Have fun!

Crazy, now we have to discuss whether Tomah is truly up Nort, lol. Have a great time!

BB,

every Lombardi gets taken home by a team with more than one if.

Yes, we have more ifs than we've seen in a long time. Probably more than any other team in the league, but only because many teams have weak roster spots with no realistic hope of them even becoming an if.

No way does every if pan out as a star this year. Some that don't might be at least solid in this league by year 3. These are more reasons why depth is so important. And we've got some serious depth! Ifs start turning into strengths in TC. "Stacking success" is something the whole roster is primed to do, and I hope to see genuine competition fostered by the whole coaching staff, with no quitting by any player.

A LOT will happen between now and week 1.

"Sorry but our RT was benched last year in a must win game"

He wasn't benched because of failure, he was injured and trying to play through it.

I don't think the question you're answering is the one that was asked

Yes, Jordan is not a rookie, but he will be facing NFL defenses that are actually preparing for him instead of filling in for a guy that is out. And playing as a starter brings a new pressure. The Packers weakness at WR is similar; those guys were unknowns last year, and now teams will be trying to stop Watson and stop Doubs. Even the great Davante Adams didn't really bloom until his third year in the league. Watson and Doubs might be good enough, but it's not a given that they will be. Agree the line and RBs have above average talent and experience and that will help. But at TE, we're at the question mark again. We don't really know what we have yet.

Not easy wins but winnable. The Chiefs are tough but the Chargers can be beaten.

Remember that W/L only plays into three opponents (two similar finishers in NFC (Rams and Giants) and one in the AFC (Steelers)). The Rams will likely be bad. I think the Steelers and Giants will be mediocre.

I think you hit on something there!