Hello Wisconsin: Embracing the Tank
By TimBackes
If there were ever any doubt, it has since been eliminated: the Green Bay Packers are embracing the tank.
The Packers went on a full-tilt youth movement this past offseason. Now, with a 2-5 record and a team playing worse than any other in the league at the moment, it would seem management has closed the door on any possibility of competing in 2023 and has shifted its focus to a more long-term approach to team building.
The term “rebuilding” was a dirty word around these parts a year and a half or so ago, but this is what we’re looking at.
There is no other lens through which the trade of Rasul Douglas to Buffalo makes sense. The Packers gave up Douglas and a fifth for a third round pick (likely a late one). They moved up slightly more than a round in exchange for arguably their best defensive player this season and one of their most prominent leaders.
I hated the move when it was first announced, and still don’t particularly like it. I understand why it was done; you’re clearly not competing this year, and probably not next year either. You have a team whose championship window isn’t going to open for a bit, and by the time it (hopefully) does, Douglas will be off his contract and over 30.
But at the same time, we’ve seen throughout this entire year the pitfalls that come with having a team almost entirely devoid of veteran leadership. The Packers cut out basically all veterans from their offense in favor of the philosophy of letting the young guys grow together. Clearly that hasn’t produced results this year.
It certainly makes sense for a rebuilding team to shed some veteran contracts and get some draft capital in return. But Douglas wasn’t prohibitively expensive, and wouldn’t be next year either; he was playing at a level worth his contract this and next year. He was one of the few players playing with intensity and passion, and one of the few who could always be relied upon to do their job.
Those are the kinds of guys you want to keep. To me, once you start getting too extreme in only seeing players as chess pieces and assets, you’re starting to lose the plot. There are certain intangibles that you require in the locker room, leadership and willingness to teach others being chief among them. Douglas has those qualities. The young players around him could learn a lot from that, especially with the continued injury troubles for Jaire Alexander and Eric Stokes.
So, that’s my opinion on the Douglas trade. I understand but disagree with the reasoning.
But this trade doesn’t just serve as a barometer for how the Packers brass feels about the team it’s assembled; it also serves as a barometer for how the Packers likely feel about the front office.
A general manager who’s feeling any degree of heat isn’t making long-term team-building moves like this. Instead, they’re probably taking rash action to try to save their jobs/their regime.
The fact that the Packers are making a deal like this makes me think that Brian Gutekunst has at least been guaranteed another year to see through team building, possibly even two. Maybe Matt LaFleur has as well. After all, they did both sign contract extensions of equivalent length together.
So, that’s where we are at the moment. The Packers are embracing the tank, and have entered a true rebuild.
The approach they will take with that rebuild remains to be seen, and very likely will hinge on the team’s performance in these final 10 games. Nothing is off the table if they have a top-five draft pick, including quarterback.
Wisconsin Beer of the Week
There’s a brewery that has been shooting up my list of favorites in Milwaukee and Wisconsin recently: Amorphic Beer, based in Milwaukee’s Riverwest neighborhood. They do a variety of beers really well, and they have a cool facility and ethos to them. Their “three minute thesis” series is a lot of fun. In general, they’ve been a breath of fresh air in a beer market that I had already considered pretty saturated, but they’ve proven me wrong–they’ve absolutely been a welcome addition.
Recently a coworker gifted me with a sampling of several beers the brewery currently has available. One of these was a blonde ale called Ciudad Pina (imagine the tilda over the n). It’s a pretty light, crushable beer that features pineapple ester producing yeast. Think of it as almost a pilsner with a slight fruity flavor. It’s only a suggestion of fruit–by no means is it overpowering in any regard.
The beverage comes in at a very manageable 5 percent ABV and is currently available at Amorphic Beer. The brewery does not yet have a large distribution range, so it’s best found at the brewery itself. Next time you’re in Milwaukee, pay them a visit! They’re doing great work, and I love to see great work rewarded.
Will any of the team’s free agents be re-signed?
In the 2024 offseason, the Packers will have a total of 17 free agents of different classes on their roster. Per cap guru Ken Ingalls, here’s how they break down:
Void FAs:
Nixon, Nijman, Savage
UFAs:
Runyan, Dillon, Ford, Leavitt, Deguara, Owens, Davis, Welch, Ballentine
RFAs:
Rochell
ERFAs:
Caleb Jones, Whelan, Wilson
Right now, there is a very realistic possibility that none of these players are back in Green Bay in 2024. After all, are any playing to the level where they’re a can’t-miss return prospect for the Packers?
Now, chances are that at least a couple of these guys will be back on inexpensive short-term deals. But overall, we’re going to be seeing a pretty large amount of turnover heading into the next season, especially when you consider the number of draft picks already have and how many more they’re expected to add through compensatory picks.
This is a pretty large indictment of the Packers’ 2020 and 2021 draft classes. We’re at the time where most of those players would be eligible for extension. There’s a good chance we end up with Jordan Love having been the only member of that ‘20 class to be extended, and even that was to prevent him from playing this season as a lame duck and to avoid paying him the large fifth-year option price, so it’s not exactly the most ringing endorsement.
The Packers are where they are right now due to massive veteran contracts that buried them under a mountain of cap debt, but also due to a pretty bad couple years of drafting from Gutekunst. The jury is still out on the ‘22 and ‘23 classes, which are trending in a better direction, but those couple classes should be ascending into the types of players who could carry a team right now, and they’re either gone already or have otherwise disappointed.
Around the NFC North
As always, it’s time to go around the NFC North.
- The CHICAGO BEARS sent a second-round draft pick to snag pass rusher Montez Sweat from the Commanders. This was an interesting move to me; the Bears are in need of as many draft picks as they can get. Presumably they plan to extend Sweat, as he’s still young. But a year after an ill-advised trade for Chase Claypool that saw them give up a second-round pick, the Bears are going back to that well with a veteran addition despite being nowhere near contending. We’ll see how that works out for them.
- The DETROIT LIONS continue to build a sense of legitimacy surrounding them. I have to admit that I was skeptical even after their season-opening win in Kansas City, but in a weak NFC in which the 49ers have suddenly had a midseason lull, it’s hard not to like this team’s chances. There’s a tough road for them to travel still, but they are routinely taking care of business, and have shown more consistency than I can remember out of any Lions team in my lifetime. They’re going to be a tough out.
- The MINNESOTA VIKINGS unfortunately lost Kirk Cousins for the year (and possibly for good) due to an Achilles tear suffered at Lambeau, and now have traded for former Cardinal Josh Dobbs, who had been starting much of this season while the team awaits the return of Kyler Murray. It had already been announced that Dobbs would not be starting additional games for the Cardinals, so that’s not exactly the strongest endorsement of his capabilities as a starter as he dons new colors. But chances are he’s the guy for most of the rest of the way in Minnesota, while the Vikings are probably preparing for a sort of rebuild of their own this offseason.
THIS or THAT in Mr. Backes’s room: Week 7 Update
As I’ve done the last several weeks, I’m going to give a quick update as to the latest THIS or THAT polls in my classroom.
Without further ado:
- Coffee defeated tea
- Treat defeated trick
- Italian food defeated Mexican food
- Action movies defeated comedies
- Winning MVP edged out winning a championship
Interesting note: most of the people who voted winning MVP were boys, while most of the kids who voted winning a championship were girls. Another tally in the “girls rule” column.
If you have additional THIS or THAT prompts you’d like to poll my high schoolers with, give your ideas in the comments! I’ve pulled a few from the comments so far.
Checking in on the Bucks
A bit of a mixed bag so far after three games for the Bucks.
Clearly, as should have been expected, this is a team that’s figuring it out. They’ve got a new coach, a new system, and a new superstar. Everyone is getting accustomed to their roles.
The good news is that when things are working, they are WORKING. This is a team with a whole lot of dangerous components that should win a lot of games this season. They have looked every bit the part of a title contender at points.
However, there have also been some moments where the team has looked very disjointed.
After an extremely strong opening night with 39 points in his Bucks debut, Damian Lillard put up a pretty dismal outing against the Atlanta Hawks, before he (and the team) returned to form the following night against the Miami Heat.
It really does look like the health of Khris Middleton will once again play a key role in this team, though with Lillard’s presence, the team is no longer relying on his shooting ability nearly as much.
Bobby Portis has shown up in a big way to start the season, and his energy continues to be infections for players and fans alike.
Overall, I like what I see so far. There are going to be some growing pains for the team and its new coach, but I think the pieces are in place for the Bucks to succeed this season.
*Note that I'm writing this before Wednesday night's game against the Raptors, so we'll see how that goes*
Predictions for Packers vs. Rams and Week 9
This is not currently a Packers team capable of playing competitive football, even with a Rams team that could well be missing its starting quarterback. Matthew Stafford or Brett Rypien, it doesn’t particularly matter. This is an extraordinarily deficient version of the Green Bay Packers, and it’s hard to see them righting the ship.
Rams 24, Packers 13
LAST WEEK: 13-3
SEASON TO DATE: 74-47
This week…
STEELERS over Titans
CHIEFS over Dolphins
FALCONS over Vikings
SAINTS over Bears
RAMS over Packers
PATRIOTS over Commanders
RAVENS over Seahawks
TEXANS over Buccaneers
BROWNS over Cardinals
COLTS over Panthers
RAIDERS over Giants
EAGLES over Cowboys
BENGALS over Bills
CHARGERS over Jets
Some really good looking football games this weekend… and also the Packers. Enjoy the weekend!
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
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Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
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Comments (131)
stockholder
November 02, 2023 at 06:31 am
Tim I couldn't agree with you more on Douglass.
And since we're in a Tank. Look at everybody.
The fact that Love is not Accurate. Justifies it.
We've seen more than enough-
Especially with this schedule.
And from everyone! Especially Gute!
His moves have failed.
He can't draft another player after so many misses.
Rodgers saw it and wanted him gone.
I always said for the Glory of Gute.
It's just not the moves he made.
But the ones he should have.
jannesbjornson
November 02, 2023 at 03:33 pm
You have always been dialed in on this fraud. Good God, just review his drafts, over-pays and the resulting Malaise. Sorry boys and girls, we have all been held hostage by the promise of a Lombardi. The only one spotted since 2010, is in the lobby of the Atrium, ten foot high. The Glory and the Contract Extension.
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:44 pm
Stock, just give it a rest. *sigh* We get it. You hate Gutekunst at a visceral level. You have Love at a visceral level. You hate the current Packers at a visceral level. You keep harping on moves they should've made, but when pressed you bring up impossibilities for the most part.
At this point, I'm just tired. The Bonkers Scale remains in the basement, rusting from disuse - it's not worth the effort to feed your contributions into it for a rating. It's a lost season - as we mostly expected. I have to thank AR for getting me used to not watching on Sundays so that I can miss most of the clusterfuck that Scooter McLean LaFleur cooks up every week.
Just give it a rest, eh?
Starrbrite
November 02, 2023 at 08:43 pm
Jurp—you have eloquently assigned a new nickname for MLF—Scooter…….excellent!!
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 07:03 am
If they're going to tank I hope they can at least do that right and not end up with the 8th pick.
The way they've been playing and coaching things (as I've previously posted) I had the feeling they were doing a hidea tank. If not, explain their O-line decisions and game plans or lack thereof. Now maybe they'll bring it out in the open.
If they're tanking, what will they do with their early picks? Worrisome. Trade back? Jump on the long snapper from South San Deago Tech?
They need to get this right.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:32 am
For those mired in statistics:
Cynthia Freuland came out with her supercomputer gorillion simulation prediction for the rest of the season last night, and has GB still winning at least 6 games. This has 5 other teams doing worse. I'm no draft expert, but that sounds like GB gets pick #6?
Not high enough to get one of the top QBs. Maybe high enough to get Marvin Harrison Jr. While none of this is relevant enough to merit confidence, these are the types of discussions that will be interesting. From a purely academic standpoint, since we can't expect this organization to do anything sensible.
TKWorldWide
November 02, 2023 at 08:54 am
Remind me what did historian Ron Burgundy say “San Deago” was german for…?
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:45 pm
"explain their O-line decisions and game plans or lack thereof"
Incompetence from Scooter and his coaches.
"they're tanking, what will they do with their early picks?"
If we're in the Top Five, QB for sure.
"Jump on the long snapper from South San Deago Tech?"
Nah, we'll leave that guy for the Texans.
fireball
November 02, 2023 at 07:04 am
The " tank " explanation makes sense for the Douglas trade. His play would make no real difference for the Packers this year and probably not much more for next year. And there is the cap saving.
Once Aaron Rodgers was traded to the Jets, the Packers were absolutely in the rebuilding stage and would need to get as many draft picks as they can.
Partly because of the Douglas trade, I'm now convinced that Gute will insist on firing Joe Barry after the season ends.
The Douglas trade also sends a strong message to the entire team to wake up!
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:40 am
Fireball:
"Partly because of the Douglas trade, I'm now convinced that Gute will insist on firing Joe Barry after the season ends."
While I hope you're right, there is no direct logical connection. He probably thinks JB is doing the best coaching of his career. (Which might even be true, but that's still irrelevant)
"The Douglas trade also sends a strong message to the entire team to wake up!"
The message it sends is it's pointless to even try because this organization is entirely capricious. Play well and you might get a big contract, or you might get thrown out like trash. You don't matter and are worthless, at best.
There's also no cohesive strategy. If the idea is blow it up, dump every veteran - Gutey didn't do that. This can only add to the demoralization factor because it proves they are in fact idiots.
Further, GB has always had a secession plan; veterans could lead young players into the Packers way. Disrupting that means the organization is content with reverting to the 70's and 80's. Tickets are sold out into forever, why should they care?
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:48 pm
I don't think Douglas is really that miffed at being traded - Buffalo can compete for a Super Bowl, GB can compete only for an early draft pick. I think it would be great for him if Buffalo finally wins a Super Bowl.
ImaPayne
November 02, 2023 at 08:38 am
3rd 4th 5th round picks dont make up for needs. Rebuids are done with money, first and second round picks, lots of them and top free agents.
Getting a very very late third rounder from the Bills aint setting the world on fire and your getting someone 31 other teams passed on twice.
Chicago had 13 picks, a ton of money and free agents acquisitions and their GM, as dumb as Gutt screwed it all up big time with terrible picks and acquistions. He could have built a real contender with his capitol and fucked it up.
TKWorldWide
November 02, 2023 at 08:55 am
Can’t argue much except the 3rd rounder could be packaged in another move.
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:48 pm
Eh, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady were not picked until after the third round, so your logic fails.
NickPerry
November 02, 2023 at 07:21 am
"The fact that the Packers are making a deal like this makes me think that Brian Gutekunst has at least been guaranteed another year to see through team building, possibly even two. Maybe Matt LaFleur has as well. After all, they did both sign contract extensions of equivalent length together."
Well, at least I know for SURE about one thing...That $399.00 I paid YouTube TV for Sunday Ticket so I could watch EVERY Packers game this year was the LAST time I pay that much money to watch THIS team play on Sundays until changes are made. There is NO way I'll pay that next year!
THIS was my concern I spoke of yesterday in my comments. 2024 is almost a "Lame-duck" season until a new team president is named. If there's ONE THING Mark Murphy can do at the end of this season is to eliminate the "Silos" and give Gute full control in 2024.
IF that actually happened then I think we could be relatively sure MLF would be fired after this year, Gute would be fired after 2024, and I can start ordering Sunday Ticket again in 2025. Just in time to watch the RISE of the Green Bay Packers and Drake Maye!
Believe it people...THIS team will have the #1 draft pick in the NFL next season because I highly doubt they win another game. Douglas is gone. Alexander looks like he quit trying after last week, and Stokes, well Stokes is Kevin King 2.0 and will be one of those ALWAYS injured.
But hey, the Packers are hosting the NFL Draft. I'm sure by them Gute will have traded Alexander, Jenkins, and Clark and the home crowd of the draft will have LOTS to cheer for as the Packers draft EARLY & often in each round of the 2025 draft.
Thanks Gute... I'm now the biggest NEGATIVE Packers fan on CHTV! Still a Homer, just a negative one.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:44 am
It's possible GB doesn't get the #1 draft pick. Cynthia Freuland's mathematical wizardry predicts #6.
Either way, that's a lot of talent to give Gutey control over. Maybe he can add a fifth round pick to it and trade it for a third rounder?
stockholder
November 02, 2023 at 08:01 am
Mel Kiper ripped apart Gute's drafting.
The separation between MLF and Gute is obvious.
MLF and staff were not at the combine.
So much for all that scheme work.
And being MLF won't change anything.
Only points to interference by Gute.
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:50 pm
Mel Kiper is an idiot. And you're ignoring Mark Murphy's role in the ClusterFuckFrontOffice, as usual.
NickPerry
November 02, 2023 at 06:51 pm
"The separation between MLF and Gute is obvious."
Yup, you're absolutely 100% correct on that one SH. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't looking. Plus, you don't have to really look that hard. It's been pretty evident for a while.
But I'll say this. I think it's MLFs staff who's doing a really horseshit job of coaching opposed to Gutes picks not being good enough. I've been saying this since the day LaFleur was hired about his assistants.
SinceLombardi
November 02, 2023 at 08:12 am
I for one would have no problem seeing Jaire Alexander leave. He was a really good player, top five at his position. Emphasis on was.
I know he’s had injuries, but I also see his play as only slightly better than Douglas if at all. I also saw Douglas as more willing to actually attempt to tackl
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:51 pm
I personally would rather have seen Alexander traded than Douglas.
crayzpackfan
November 02, 2023 at 10:21 am
NP- I read an article on score mobile where Gute basically through his number one pick, Love, under the bus. Unless the said article was posted out of context, he said Love hasn't really proved himself yet and really only has the rest of the season to do so. The way it read, I found Gute to be a bit of an asshole. He drafts this kid, gives him complete garbage coaching, and an awful OL and poor draft picks the last few years. He's clearly showing he's only looking out for himself.
LaFlukeMustGo
November 02, 2023 at 01:03 pm
Have you considered that Brian Gutekunst might deplore what LaFluke and his squad of nincompoop assistants have done with his draft picks? However, I do question if many of his picks lack enough football intelligence to play at the professional level. All that blather here during the summer about having the talent to maybe make the playoffs. Excise the disease - LaFlukeMustGo
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 05:52 pm
Scooter LaFleur will have the worst record since Scooter McLean.
TarynsEyes
November 02, 2023 at 10:34 am
" I'm now the biggest NEGATIVE Packers fan on CHTV!"
Whoa!!! You can't just crown yourself what it has taken me years to acquire by speaking truth and suffering the rage and dislikes from the masses here that idolize your homer-ism. You really have to earn what is mine.
Do I really need to do a 'Hold my beer' moment? Or did I just do one by calling out the one of the sites heroes.
LOL!!!
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 10:39 am
Good one!
Still laughing.
Nick's been on one, hasn't he?
NickPerry
November 03, 2023 at 06:02 am
LMAO!!!
Taryn you're absolutely correct. I let my emotions get in the way of reality. I apologize, and no, you don't need a 'Hold my beer' moment.
The crown is still YOURS!!
Cheezehead72
November 02, 2023 at 07:23 am
I will never agree or do I want to see a team tank. The Packers do not have to tank on purpose. They might lose every game left.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 07:38 am
I agree. I don't see this as "intentionally losing for better draft position"...that's pretty much what a tank is. A single deal for the one guy attracting attention from the outside does little to fit that definition.
If you're not playing to win, don't play. There's a lot that needs to be learned by the young guys on this roster and by management about these guys, and if you're not going to try to win football games, you're throwing them all away and digging the hole even deeper.
Again: Montez Sweat bought a 2nd--he's young. Chase Young brought a 3rd. He's young, healthy, and playing well. What do we think a good-but-not-great DB heading for 30 is worth? The Packers will have 2-3 mid-round comp picks coming this spring anyway.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:47 am
Where do those compensatory draft picks come from? Were they awarded last draft?
Guam
November 02, 2023 at 08:14 am
The Packers lost a number of free agents last year (Lazard, Cobb, Amos, Lowery, Reed, etc.) and will get comp picks awarded in this year's draft. Probably not any third or fourth rounders given the players lost, but some in the 5th through 7th range are quite likely.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:20 am
Didn't they get 3 compensatory picks last year? It's part of why they had so many picks going into the draft.
Guam
November 02, 2023 at 08:35 am
Comp picks come a year after free agents are lost, not the same year. The Packers did have comp picks last year, but I can't remember who they were for.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 07:51 am
Tanking is not in an athlete's nature. If you're not playing to win, you wouldn't get to this level and you're more than likely getting hurt.
Now some of the guys might let their injuries linger longer to escape some of the criticism that comes with losing, but that just makes them losers.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:46 am
I don't see a game they might win, after losing to both the Raiders and the Broncos. Even da Bares are improving.
Coldworld
November 02, 2023 at 10:56 am
And there is a key point in that. Even bad rosters should get better to some extent as the season progresses, individually, positionally and overall. That may not move the needle much, but when one gets worse and makes no changes but rehashes the same problems only magnified, it tells you that coaching is a massive problem. Ours is.
Starrbrite
November 02, 2023 at 08:50 pm
Agreed Cheezhead72.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:25 am
Tim:
"once you start getting too extreme in only seeing players as chess pieces and assets, you’re starting to lose the plot."
This Rasul trade tells every player that they're worthless, no matter how well they play. Gutey dumped him for nothing. There's no way a third round rookie replaces what Rasul brought to the team. This demoralizes everyone. (It's also bad for the team on paper, obviously)
Either Gutey intended to give the team the kiss of death on his way out the door, or he's tone deaf as to human nature. Either way he should be nowhere near another draft pick. He doesn't even have the decency to admit that his strategy in 2020 was disjointed; had he gone all in he would have brought weapons AR12 could have used immediately, consistent with the claim and their SB window.
I'm not saying JL10 is a bust. I'm not saying any of the current rookies are a bust. I'm saying the current coaching staff is a bust in terms of developing young players, even though they seemed to run a decent enough TC.
Anybody wanting to watch good football has several teams to pick from, but not GB. I'm not sure I can rip myself away from the torture of still watching them, but it certainly isn't fun. An intervention is probably in order.
Here's a this or that for Mr Backes' class:
watch a Packers game, or take a DeLorean to the Vietnam War to be tortured at the Hanoi Hilton?
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 07:58 am
I think the JL10 pick did exactly what it was supposed to do. Inspire a future HOF QB back to two seasons of MVP caliber play. They obviously thought that would bring championships too. They misjudged their coaching staff and didn't expect they would cause failure in the playoffs.
jannesbjornson
November 02, 2023 at 03:52 pm
Do you actually believe Rodgers ever viewed Love as a threat to his Job? He may have held Venom for Gutedkunst, but he didn't throw Love under the bus. He wanted playmakers added to the offense. He wanted to Win.
Guam
November 02, 2023 at 08:42 am
SST: I am not as down on the Douglas trade as you are. I hated to lose Douglas as he has been one of the best players this year, but he is 29 and likely wasn't going to be around when the Packer kiddie corps grows up. The third round pick better matches up with the Packer youth movement than Douglas.
Will losing Douglas hurt this year - yes and probably for many of the reasons you cited beyond just his play. However I suspect the Packer FO knew this year wasn't going to be good and they are seeking the best draft choices they can get next Spring. Welcome to the post Rodgers rebuild.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 10:05 am
Totally on point SST. As much as it is about getting talented players, you need to demonstrate that you value good players and their contribution to team. I have little confidence that Gutekunst knows what really goes into building a solid football team. No doubt he'll be bargain shopping for high RAS players in the mid and lower rounds on the next draft.
mrtundra
November 02, 2023 at 07:43 am
So what do the Packers do to fill position holes, on the roster? FA? Draft? Trades? Practice Squad? We lost Rasul and we probably lose a few more DBs, and other players, once the season is over. Bakhtiari is done, IMO. We have a lot of holes to fill. We will, at least, need to look at OT, S, CB. OG/C, in the draft, unless there are bonafide veterans available in FA. We may even need a RB who fits this scheme, depending on what happens to Dillon or Jones. People here and elsewhere are calling for Love to be replaced. I doubt that that happens. I also think we need to look at our coaching staff as much as our players. I'd get rid of Barry and his soft zone defensive schemes, which allows teams to sustain long drives, every game. I'd demote Stenavich to OL coach, where he was pretty good. I'd hire a new OC. Bisaccia can stay if he can get our STs coverage units to actually cover the returners. I'd be coaching the fundamentals of tackling, which seems to be a lost art with this team. This is so frustrating to have to wait for this team to find themselves. Bumps in the road? Yep, more coming, too.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:53 am
There's depth at OT on the current roster, they just refuse to play them. Interior O linemen is a position of need.
I agree that drafting another QB seems like a mistake, if only because there are so many roster holes.
FA is still not doable with the salary cap next year. They won't be able to afford to keep Jones, Dillon, and other players they really need to be a good team; obviously that's not the goal so everything's unpredictable.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:28 am
I think that if they land in the top 5 or so, they need to look long and hard at QBs...and that's coming from someone who thinks they'll give Love the rest of this year and likely into next if the coaching/management group is still in place. That's where the money players at the position tend to show up--and yes, there are plenty of misses--but you don't plan to pick there very often.
If they can LaF after this season and pick in the top 6-8, with a strong QB class coming out, they can use that draft position and a promise of direction with it to help attract a new HC (especially an offensive HC who might not want to work with Love).
ImaPayne
November 02, 2023 at 08:32 am
YOur correct but looking back even in the Rodgers years, every year we had big holes to fill because we let guys go to save a buck. And many of those guys are having very nice careers elsewhere right now after we developed them to leave.
Draft and develop means we train others to be good elsewhere after four years
BAMABADGER
November 02, 2023 at 08:55 am
I can’t remember the last Packer defensive team that was actually tough and form tackled. Perhaps when LeRoy Butler played.
SinceLombardi
November 02, 2023 at 12:11 pm
You’re correct. The last hard nosed football team was coached by Mike Holmgren.
Although we ran aggressively during the 2010 playoff push.
WestCoastPackerBacker
November 02, 2023 at 04:43 pm
The 2010 defense had some aggression as well. They were tied for 2nd in sacks (despite having Clay Matthews and not much else) and 8th in QB hits. They were 2nd in interceptions. I do miss those days.
Starrbrite
November 02, 2023 at 09:06 pm
Right Bamabadger—I discuss this very point with my packer friends. When is the last time we witnessed our defense flying to the tackle—smashing, ripping, colliding with relentless fury. And a turnover would be awesome event.
Our defense looks like they’re simply going through the motions.
fireball
November 02, 2023 at 07:50 am
Wow! tremendous amount of negative comments.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 02, 2023 at 07:54 am
Raiders got it right. GB can't even do that much right.
CheesedDeadHead
November 02, 2023 at 08:23 am
Using the Raiders as a model might be as lost as MLF.
ImaPayne
November 02, 2023 at 08:30 am
Do you have any positives to add for a 2-5 team coming out of the soft part of their schedule other then the season will be over in just 10 more games?
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:36 am
Losing hope is demoralizing. I am looking for leadership just to feel like it will be okay. Rasul Douglas was trying to be exactly that guy and our team building front office saw a 3rd round pick. Hard to be happy.
SinceLombardi
November 02, 2023 at 12:14 pm
When you have more penalties than points , at home, against a division rival… following uninspiring losses to two of the worst teams in the afc ( one just fired the HC/GM) you’ve not going to get many glowing reviews.
There’s losing and there’s barely showing up and losing.
KingPacker
November 02, 2023 at 02:04 pm
As to be expected. The level of sucky-ness is appalling.
joejetson
November 02, 2023 at 08:08 am
It's almost inevitable that NFL teams execute a tank phase to acquire premium talent. The drafting system is designed to help bad teams aquire difference makers at the top of the 1st round. The playoff teams end up with more high risk players at the end of the 1st round, and every succeeding round.
The Packers were the rare exception due to elite QB play for the last 30 years. They also generally drafted well to surround the QB with effective talent. But then they recently executed a few poor drafts which depleted the overall talent pool.
The final stages of the process was propping up the talent level with stop-gap free agents. In the process, staving off the salary cap mortgage by backloading bloated contracts.
The Tank has now arrived.
There was one Off Ramp available to shorten and even possibly avoid the Tank phase. They had a perfect opportunity to offload Aaron Rodgers (and his contract) to several potential trade partners for a massive haul of future draft picks and current decent NFL players.
But management short-sightedly decided to "keep the band together " for another ill fated season.
Seattle jumped into the veteran QB market and unloaded Wilson for a King's ransom of high draft picks and quality players.
GB made the decision a year too late and settled for a pittance of what they should have gotten for #12.
So now, here we are with the dregs of the NFL bottom feeders suffering through an almost comical level of ineptitude. Move over Bears, Cardinals, Raiders.
"Hold my beer", says Brian Gutekunst.
The chickens have come home to roost.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:23 am
You summed it up well. Gutekunst has the "all youth" camouflage on the tank.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:13 am
We've beaten Rasul Douglas into the ground in just 36 hours. I'm glad you got your say, Tim, but there's nothing more to gain by beating this rented mule further.
NFC North
I might be one of the few who really like the Montez Sweat trade--or would if I were a Bears fan. I'm mostly a proponent of players over picks but Sweat's a young impactful player at a premium position and they have the cap to pay him. He'll make a difference for Eberflus and probably the next coach who will be hired in January. We point to Claypool, but that whiff doesn't make THIS trade a bad deal. That said, even with Sweat, the Bears are bad, Tyson Bagent is not an NFL QB (at least not at this stage), and they'll be lucky to finish ahead of the Packers. Saints pound Chicago this week, 31-13.
The Vikings dealt away a surplus OL that they didn't want (Ezra Cleveland) to make room for Dalton Risner as a regular. Probably a push in their lineup but they got a little capital--that they then traded for Dobbs. So they dealt a guy they didn't need for depth at QB. Dobbs has a little moxie and I think has played about as well as could be expected for AZ, but as soon as Nick Mullens is healthy (after week 10, I think), he'll take over or at least make the QB room a mess. It's possible Dobbs never plays for MN. Vkings lose a taffy-pull to Atlanta, 13-9.
Lions have a marshmallow-soft schedule the rest of the way. They have exactly one game against teams currently over .500. If they don't win 12, something's wrong with them. That said, they've been dealing with some injuries so the bye will help them out. They need to play at home in the playoffs to make any noise, so dropping an extra game here or there will be a problem. Lions 31, Bye's kneecaps 24
Free Agents:
I think there are a few guys on that list of FAs that will be brought back: Nixon, Ford, Ballentine. I think they like those guys, and the DB room needs the bodies. A couple are Bisaccia favorites (Leavitt) and even though they need guys who are good ST players, I'd rather they found the next Dallin Leavitt (a guy who has a position and a chance to improve the depth chart) rather than investing in a guy pushing 30 who brings nothing to the defense. Whelan, Caleb Jones, Wilson are all ERFAs and are inexpensive to bring back.
That said, most of those guys are just bodies and not elevating the level of the roster. Some may flash yet this year and make a case to return, but otherwise let most of them test the market and if they come back, sign judiciously.
The Bucks---yeah, whatever. I'm glad that Milwaukee has a vibrant and competitive set of sports teams, but NBA basketball is total garbage to watch, and its all-or-nothing style of isolation hoops, wrestling in the paint, shooting 3's, and rules that vary with the player is creeping backwards into the college ranks and ruining that. My dad loved basketball. He could watch it all day (and did). I don't know if I've watched more than a handful of NBA games since he passed away about 15 years ago. I find MLB more engaging--and that says a lot.
Guam
November 02, 2023 at 08:30 am
Interesting Dobber, I don't watch either the NBA or MLB - snooze fest for me.
Gute made an interesting comment yesterday - said that the next 10 games will be very important for Jordan Love. Went on to say that Love has been doing some good things, has other things to work on and the overall youth of the offense is causing growing pains for everyone.
Led me to wonder if the Packers would draft another QB next spring. One of the better QBs could fall in Green Bay's lap if the Bears continue to believe in Justin Fields. The Bears have Carolina's #1 as well as their own and both will likely be in the top five. If the Packer wind up at the #6 draft spot as predicted in a comment above, they have the ammunition to trade up or hope the Bears pass on QBs and one falls to them.
I think Gute might be right - the next ten games will be very important for Jordan Love.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:44 am
I think management is going to walk a fine line in their comments on Love. By not bringing in a vet and keeping a rookie as backup (Clifford), they said up front that 2023 was Jordan Love's show, barring injury. I mostly read Gute's comments to be, "he needs to show that he's making significant strides or we need to regroup and re-evaluate our plans." Be decisive and be realistic.
I said somewhere else--nobody plans to draft in the top 5 or so. When you land there, you have questions at QB, and the draft class has good QB prospects available, you need to look. This is supposedly a good QB class, so even if Love is improving the rest of the way, they still might have to draft a QB. It might be trading down a few spots might be the Packers best plan. Who knows?
TarynsEyes
November 02, 2023 at 10:50 am
"I think Gute might be right - the next ten games will be very important for Jordan Love."
Yes, just enough to pass on any of the top QB's that are already light years ahead of where Love, the expected Boy Wonder is or ever will be without one NFL snap needed to be witnessed.
stockholder
November 02, 2023 at 10:57 am
IMO it won't matter after the Lions and KC.
These might be the straws that breaks Murphys back.
jannesbjornson
November 02, 2023 at 04:05 pm
They gave the season ticket holders a way out of their pain by setting up the Scalping Center. Now Fans can give the visiting squad a conclusive Home Field advantage with the foreign colored jerseys inundating the Lambeau Mystique. The empty seats put him into panic mode when he let McCarthy go. Who does he scapegoat this year?
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 10:07 am
"We've beaten Rasul Douglas into the ground in just 36 hours. I'm glad you got your say, Tim, but there's nothing more to gain by beating this rented mule further."
I will just add, that what a hell of a find to begin with. Douglas was signed off I believe Arizona's PS. He played so well that he earned really good contract and they ended up trading him for a 3rd round pick.
That is tremendous value.
WestCoastPackerBacker
November 02, 2023 at 04:46 pm
How does the Montez Sweat trade make sense. He's only under contract for this year. There will be plenty of bidding for his services, and nothing says CHI will land him, unless they franchise him. But that's no way to build a roster.
ImaPayne
November 02, 2023 at 08:17 am
Being more of a football observer then bit time drooling fan - you lose that when you realize your Lions arent making the playoffs ever, HA.
Here's one to ponder down the line. I say big head Gutt will never admit he made a big mistake with Love or his pay checks may stop to come in. People in power rarely take any blaim in fear of being put to the curb.
So we tank this year, Gutt praises Love for his progress and passes on that early first round pick for a new QB and rather trades back in the first to get an additional 5th rounder. Oh I can see that happening already. If so I imagine fans will be like a Frankenstein movie with pick forks and lit torches if front of the stadium. HA
You can bet our NFC competitors are hoping this happens.
Your only prayer, Murph gets rid of Gutt before the draft. Yea!
CanPackFan
November 02, 2023 at 03:24 pm
Murphy to make a tough, sound, football management decision? Good luck with that! He's the Peter Principle personified!
joejetson
November 03, 2023 at 08:05 pm
Agree with the "Frankenstein" movie 'Pitchforks and Torches' scenario. Except that the modern day version of the protest would be to march down to Lambeau and graffiti and then topple the Lombardi statue.
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 08:20 am
"If there were ever any doubt, it has since been eliminated: the Green Bay Packers are embracing the tank"
This maybe a version of tanking, but it isn't a fire sale. They aren't getting rid of everything. If this was a firesale you would have seen more then Douglas leaving. Probably would have seen Campbell, Smith, Alexander, Jenkins or others going as well.
I hate that they got rid of Douglas. But good for Douglas that he gets to go to a team that has a chance to go deep in the playoffs.
"Will any of the team’s free agents be re-signed?"
Void FAs:
I can see them resigning both Savage and Nixon. But it will most likely depend on who the new DC will be.
UFAs:
I can see them resigning a couple of guys that would likely be cheaper. I can see them Letting Runyan and Dillon going.
RFAs:
Depending on how he performs i can see them keeping Rochell.
ERFAs:
I think they resign Whelan. They have invested 2 years into Caleb Jones, so I can see them resigning him as well.
None of these players will be signed for big money though.
"Predictions for Packers vs. Rams and Week 9"
I haven't done any predictions because I really haven't had any feel for this team. BUT, for some stupid reason, I feel like we start seeing turn around this week. I really have no particular reason other then a gut feeling. I just have that feeling that for some reason they are going to finally show up offensively in this game in the first half.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:36 am
"Tanking"
Agreed: a fire sale would've had P Smith out the door, too, for anything they could get. He's the only other guy playing well that was healthy. Smith has quietly had a pretty good season.
""Will any of the team’s free agents be re-signed?""
I think they'll let Savage test the waters. The S room is perilously thin, but bidding on a guy who struggles to stay healthy and is as up and down as Savage is doesn't sound like a winning proposition.
Remember the ERFAs are like check-boxes: yes or no, and there's little commitment there. I think they're all back.
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 09:07 am
Smith has had a very good year. He just quietly has it.
I think they like Savage but won't pay big money for him. I can definitely seeing them letting him see what else is out there.
I can see them all back too. But I think a few will be back for sure. Whelan I think has done enough to be the punter for a little while anyways.
packerbackerjim
November 02, 2023 at 09:41 am
“I think they’ll let Savage test the waters “. If he fell out of a boat, he’d fail to hit the water.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 08:40 am
Don't want to burst your bubble, RC, " have no particular reason other then a gut feeling"
I had the same "gut feeling" the last two games. How'd that work out for me?
Turned out it must have just been indigestion.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 08:51 am
I actually rolled out of bed on Sunday and thought, "you know, I have a feeling this might be the Packers' week".
And was then treated to one of the most frustrating games they've played in a long while. More frustrating than Denver, Vegas, etc. The entire schedule for this season was littered with softballs. I think they'll win a few yet--the league is set up to make it hard to land under 6 wins. I don't know if they'll get there, but if they do it means they've started to find some answers.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:19 am
...I don't know if they'll get there, but if they do it means they've started to find some answers...
The silver lining kind of like the 6-10 season where the team knew it was a new foundation. Here's hoping.
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 09:09 am
I don't know. I have had this feeling the last couple of days. I don't think indigestion lasts that long?
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 09:38 am
Hope it's not an ulcer.
Really, I hope you have the right kind of feeling. If we can go 10-0 from here on out it would be a good springboard into next season.
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 09:51 am
"its not a tumor" - Arnold voice
I really don't think it would take much to win these games. They have been in almost every one of these games. A couple of key 3rd down conversions here and there and a lot can change.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 10:26 am
And a couple of plays in a row without penalties wouldn't hurt.
RCPackerFan
November 02, 2023 at 11:10 am
exactly. Stop beating themselves first and they probably can beat the other teams.
Handsback
November 02, 2023 at 08:25 am
I haven't been very active because I know how everyone feels about losing...it sucks.
It will suck more before the season is over. This team has some talent but hasn't been able to get the players to work as a unit in order to find out the keepers from the throw aways.
My belief is this, somewhere this season the light will go on and the team will play as a unit. They will find out that they can win, and probably knock down a few playoff teams in the process.
The 4 things a team needs, a QB, LT, pass rusher, and CB. Hard to determine if Love is the guy. LT has been out this year, PR has been on snap count but seems to be making some noise, and the CB has been hurt. So in essence GB has none of those positions running at full speed. Until they are it will be a hard road to travel.
One last thing....the coaches from top to bottom need to be evaluated. I think the young team makes it hard for the current staff to train them when they were used to having more veteran players. Doesn't justify their lousy preparedness but a reason why they are failing.
Just MHO
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:16 am
Thanks for the encouragement. I was thinking that we were in the Vikings game well into the 3rd and even the 4th quarter. There is potential. But watching guys not knowing what the play or coverage or assignment is just extinguished the hope. I fear that poor coaching will demoralize the players and the season will end before Thanksgiving.
Rebecca
November 02, 2023 at 08:30 am
So was it the injuries, the diva, the team president, the Gutekunst drafting, the bloated contracts to underperforming players, mlf, the position coaches, special teams? Entropy took over and the team culture has been on a downward trend since at least McCarthy’s last 2-2.5 years. If the home games losing trend continues fans might show up to mock the idea of “Title Town”. We became “entitled town”.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 08:46 am
Don't forget the nice and pleasant culture instead of the mean and nasty one!
"Hope you have a nice day", culture.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 10:32 am
Looks like someone doesn't appreciate my sarcasm or that I liked your post.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:09 am
Ouch! Don't make us look in the mirror.
CoachJV
November 02, 2023 at 08:45 am
The trade makes sense if we're tanking.
I really hate the thought of that though... it's bad sportsmanship. I'm all for a total rebuild and clearing the salary cap. The cap has been a yoke around our necks for a long time. I think we need to clear out the majority of the coaching staff too. And while we're at it, let's get new uniforms too.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:06 am
...And while we're at it, let's get new uniforms too...
Too funny
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 06:35 pm
Well, since we seem to be emulating the 1950s teams, the dark blue and whites from those days would be fitting.
LeotisHarris
November 02, 2023 at 08:46 am
"This is an extraordinarily deficient version of the Green Bay Packers, and it’s hard to see them righting the ship."
I agree, Tim, this is an extraordinarily deficient version of the Packers, especially in the coaching ranks. Any righting of the ship would be guided by those hapless men for the remainder of the season. I don't see it happening either. If the game against the Rams is more of the same, I would not be opposed to lovingly setting Coach LaFleur free, and handing the team to Coach Bisaccia.
My hope for this season was to watch steady improvement by a young and talented team. I've witnessed a sloppy, undisciplined unit sleepwalk through games against beatable opponents. They play uninspired football. That's on the HC, and his cast of assistants.
GPG
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 09:05 am
...My hope for this season was to watch steady improvement by a young and talented team. I've witnessed a sloppy, undisciplined unit...
I too was expecting a young team learning the ropes and making their share of mistakes. Not a team of confusion and poor execution. I keep seeing current practice footage of the players diving on to tackling mats or RBs stepping through ladders and wondering what value does this have when your players are blocking the wrong play or running the wrong route or confused on their secondary assignment. We need to drill the "know your job" part of the game.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 08:52 am
I agree with Tim regarding Rasul Douglas. Quality guy, gritty player who was always available and would show up at the right time. In many ways, he reminded me of Tramon Williams. Don't know what we want in a player if you trade a guy away simply because he does his job on and off the field and will cost more on his next contract.
I don't know how many of you watched Brian Gutekunst's presser yesterday but I had to laugh when one of the beat reporters, I think Jason Wilde, asked about trading away Douglas and making the thin secondary a bigger liability. Gutekunst slipped around like a car salesman and finished by deflecting to a cliche that "all focus is on beating the Rams this weekend". Rather than accepting the lame answer, Wilde followed up with "how does trading one of your surest secondary players and throwing the defense into repair contribute to beating the Rams?" (something to that effect). At least some of these reporters have the courage to ask a tough question.
The sooner we move on from Brian Gutekunst, the sooner we will be able to rebuild the franchise. I don't think that he drafts well or the right kind of player. And, when he stumbled on a 'fabric' guy like Douglas he trades him because of a future contract and demoralizes the locker room.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 09:17 am
Unbelievable presser. Gutekunst has always been painful to watch-he offers a mix of discomfort, arrogance & inarticulateness.
It doesn't matter how well Green Bay is positioned in next year's draft, he has a very poor record when it comes to assessing player value.
I'm going to watch Rasul and the Bills. I've had it.
Fans are the only hope in challenging this mess. Gutekunst & Co. think they are safe because there is no owner. Don't wait till 2025.
Razer
November 02, 2023 at 10:17 am
At least with Ted Thompson you would get a sense of "genuine" behind the answer. Ted would also instill confidence thru his stories and experience as a football player. Gutekunst has more accountant than football guy sensibility. Good for fantasy football management should be on his next resume.
Coldworld
November 02, 2023 at 10:58 am
Ted said nothing at all. Then a dry comment.
cben67
November 02, 2023 at 09:17 am
If the Rams win this week by making plays against whoever replaces Douglas we might just start seeing articles about possible 2024 GM candidates
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 09:51 am
I doubt it. Most pundits say the Packers' approach to the deadline (essentially standing pat) screams that BG has been assured his job is safe. There might be articles, but they won't mean anything.
Coldworld
November 02, 2023 at 10:38 am
The Packers know they had mortgaged the cap to the hilt. The only surprise is that Murphy had not realized it when he led the charge to extend Rodgers with the roster remaining. By the time they wiggled out of that as much as they could, it was clear that the penny had dropped. We see it now in the extreme inexperience on O.
I thought the rebuild debate was fatuous. The word doesn’t matter, look at the cap paucity, hangover and where we are getting players from this year and last.
I think last year convinced them that this year was a test of what the coaches could make of the youth and how the team developed players and schematically/tactically post Rodgers.
The trade of Douglass suggests that the rest of the troika probably see the lack of innovation and evolution and slow development or actual regression on O, lack of progress on D through the continuity LaFleur cited as the key need after last season, as evidence that the coaching isn’t going to get us anywhere.
LaFleur was likely the scapegoat in waiting and has probably played into that in both what he wanted for the off season and how incredibly similar the issues are from last year and week to week. He wax given a free hand after last year, it’s not led to any positives.
A new coach typically takes a year or so to bear fruit. A 3rd and dime cap for Douglas as well as playing time for Valentine starts to look sensible if that’s the plan,
There no way they let us go into next year without changes. The pressure is building too fast. There no cap to buy a return to competitiveness, not draft manages that in year one and the coaches aren’t getting much visible growth from what we have.
Therefore you change the coaches. After that, Gute’s position becomes the hot one (especially if he chooses the Head Coach or we hire one people believe in), but not before.
Coldworld
November 02, 2023 at 10:19 am
They’ve decided to go with Valentine and others for the future not the present (plus 7 million extra cap next year). I very much don’t see that anyone will be taken seriously if they complain that we aren’t better now as a result. That’s widely expected.
I will say this, if Valentine is used in soft coverage then don’t expect much. Douglas was our one player who was as good playing off. I hope Barry takes note if that and doesn’t negate the positives of Valentine as he did Stokes.
SweetPotatoGB
November 02, 2023 at 09:22 am
I love me some Rasul Douglas, but overall I am neutral about the trade. Rasul was the real loser here if he were to stay in GB, and he doesn’t deserve that at this point in his career. This is the NFL, and every team goes through these tough times. As a fan I’m going to keep cheering on everyone that goes out there every Sunday, and I’m also looking forward to the Packers finally having some money to spend on free agents over the next few years. I get it, we don’t know if they’ll pick up the right pieces. We don’t know if the coaches will do their jobs. But, as fans we have what we have, and the only way forward is forward. The fans are on the hot seat too. Carry the G with love and with pride.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 09:34 am
@ Sweet Potato:
Your statements feel a bit overly sympathetic. This is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and like other NFL teams, Green Bay coaches and the FO should not feel entitled to immunity from the natural consequences of poor administration, weak coaching, player regression and so on. The problems with the Defense, LaFleur, Barry, Gute, Murphy are long-standing. The players are only reflecting the dysfunction.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 09:45 am
Carful!
You're starting to make too much sense!
SweetPotatoGB
November 02, 2023 at 10:24 am
Being dissatisfied with the FO or the GM or any aspect of this team is perfectly fine. My point is that as fans we can focus on what is actually in our control here, which is basically nothing except to cheer on the guys on the field each week. This is the first year after releasing a four time MVP QB, and they've got hardly any veterans. Do I wish it looked better right now? Of course, and you're right, this is an NFL team and it's a results based business. It's not up to me if they keep or fire Lafluer or anyone else, but I do believe that many people, including players and coaches will be gone over the next couple of years if things don't improve. I don't think Green Bay will be recognizable compared to what it is today in the year 2025. As fans, all we can do is wait it out. The only way forward is forward. You don't have to like the GM, but that is who is there right now. You don't have to like Joe Barry, but he's the DC right now. I'm not excusing poor decision making or poor coaching or poor anything....but, it's all we have RIGHT NOW, and as fans it is our DUTY to Carry the G no matter what. If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to watch or participate until they start winning again. As an organization in the NFL, the Packers will not just sit by and let the team lose for 10 years, at least I don't believe that they will. But even in the unlikely event that that does happen, I will still be Carrying the G, and I hope most of GB's fans do that as well.
dobber
November 02, 2023 at 09:56 am
Three possibilities for Douglas if he stayed:
1. they would've asked him to take a pay-cut in 2023 (would you take that?)
2. they would've cut him outright
3. they would've extended him by a year or maybe two (or offered void years) to try to cut his hit in 2024.
It's very likely that Buffalo cuts him after the season. They have good CBs. They're just hurt. In that event, it's very possible the Packers try to bring back Douglas in 2024...especially if they feel their young CBs are shaky.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 10:02 am
I think Douglas upset someone. I don't believe a word of Gute's inarticulate word salad.
SwedeBayPacker
November 03, 2023 at 12:33 am
Agree on Douglas.
He's showing up every game and playing his heart out for a team that can't get anything together. He deserves to be with a contender team that wants to play football, so I'll be rooting for him and the Bills to make a splash.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 10:00 am
Will the promoters of the Columbine change their plans?
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 10:34 am
????
Over my head, I guess.
Packerpasty
November 02, 2023 at 10:04 am
Not tanking, just not a very good team...players dont want to tank, its not fair to the fans to see a team tank, may look like tanking but the Pack just is a bad team...
TarynsEyes
November 02, 2023 at 10:41 am
For a team to truly be in favor of tanking, any win from here on out should leave an excruciating, hard to hide look on their faces afterward.
TXCHEESE
November 02, 2023 at 10:34 am
I say good for Douglas. It sucks he's gone, but at least he went to a contender. I stated last week, I committed to giving it till late in the season before making judgement. Hopefully behind the scenes the coaches really are coaching up the youth and the light just hasn't come on yet. If this team still looks as discombobulated at the middle part of December as it did the last couple of weeks, then yes, MLF has to go. I would be totally open to RB being elevated to HC. He's been in the league for a long time and probably has a more complete list of guys to bring in for OC and DC as well as position coaches. It always felt like MLF was left with a very small list of guys that would come in and work with/for him.
TarynsEyes
November 02, 2023 at 10:38 am
"Hopefully behind the scenes the coaches really are coaching up the youth and the light just hasn't come on yet"
For the light to come on, one must first be able to screw the bulb into the socket.
T7Steve
November 02, 2023 at 11:24 am
"one must first be able to screw the bulb into the socket."
Would that be an LED syndrome (light erectile disfunction)?
TXCHEESE
November 02, 2023 at 04:29 pm
True That
Coldworld
November 02, 2023 at 11:06 am
The core problem is that the development is absent in terms of individuals, groups and on both O and D. That is the critical reason LaFleur and his coaches won’t survive, not the results.
MEO73
November 02, 2023 at 12:07 pm
Packers traded Rasul to stockpile draft choices to be in on Caleb, Drake or Shadeur. At least if Love continues to be mediocre to bad.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 01:27 pm
Gutekunst, MLF and MM will think they have cover now- There is even less incentive to play well as they think are now off the hook for the rest of the season because it is assumed GB has chosen to tank.
These mediocre, inarticulate men have/are systematically destroying a storied franchise and unless all of them are removed (by whom??) (the 'board'?), and bylaws are re-written, I see years and years of this woeful story.
stockholder
November 02, 2023 at 02:38 pm
I love Nixons reaction. -
"The Douglass trade made him sick."
And thats exactly why Gute needs to go.
He doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks.
As long as it benefits him.
Age had nothing to do with this.
It's a constant feed for his next job.
Rerun the numbers.
I hope Ball is the next gm
Fiscal responsibility with a stable roster.
jannesbjornson
November 02, 2023 at 06:27 pm
Low-Ball writes the Contract these fools dole out. Keep that clown completely away from Packerland. He is part of the politburo's collective. Kleen Haus. Scorched Earth Policy. Bring in some people from Veach's tree.
jurp
November 02, 2023 at 06:37 pm
Ball as GM? OMFG. I thought you were a Packer's fan, not a Bears fan. No need to dust off the Bonkers Scale to figure out that you've hit 10 on it.
stockholder
November 02, 2023 at 08:14 pm
Did you see where Rusal told the Bills media
of the trade? He hung up on Gute. Good read.
Gutey needs to go even if Ball takes over.
jboss
November 02, 2023 at 03:08 pm
You neglected to mention benefits to the cap by cutting Rasul.
Thank you, Rasul, for your time with the pack, I enjoyed yr pick in that cardinals game IMMENSELY!
CanPackFan
November 02, 2023 at 03:13 pm
Good article Tim. It's unfortunate when a managers'/coachs' survival necessitates making moves that are clearly not in the best interest of the teams' immediate fortunes of winning.
Up until a month or so ago, I thought Gutes was doing an OK job given Murphy and their idiotic reporting structure. I don’t feel that way anymore. We need a GM that can draft tough, solid players. Not ones who can't take a hit or are grabbing their hammys' after ever play. And I am sick of GB drafting "projects" with great athleticism over pure, tough foofball players. Drafting Myers over Humphries? Feels like a Joe Barry move with a 265 LB covering a WR...
And LaFleur? He can't teach young players and can't hire coaches. If he can't delegate, then he's a bad leader. Management 101.
It scares me to think that LaFleur will still be around next season. But as long as they break up the 3 Stooges - MLF, Steno, Barry - at least in part, we might expect some improvement? As long as MLF does not do the hiring, that is.
It's hard to give up on a season that's not even half finished. But this is what our braintrust is telling us, without saying it. God, we're the Bears now! And maybe they're even better than us right now?
I still like our young players no matter how badly they are managed and coached. Regardless, GPG.
ricky
November 02, 2023 at 04:20 pm
Tanking? The idea makes me want to puke. I hate this idea more than I hate the Bears. I'd rather become a Vikings fan than see my team tank- and the chances of me in purple are less than zero. And as far as the idea of simply drafting a QB and everything will be fine? HAH! For every Mahones, Burrow, or Allen (the latter two had their own issues early on), there are five or six picks like Trubisky, Rosen, or Fields. Go back the last few years, pick a year that the QB draft class was "exceptional", and see how many busts there were. My only hope is that we're not headed back to the terrible days of the '70's and '80's.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 04:40 pm
It's the coaching-not the QB
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 04:38 pm
Go Jets! @ least their D plays with intensity & heart. They could have folded just like the Packer's D has, they had real reasons to roll over but they chose to fight.
I used to move heaven and earth to watch Packer games-they completely bore me now--complete waste of my time & share-holder money.
I can't be the only one.
I'm excited to watch the Bills-Bengals game-hope to see Rasul.
HarryHodag
November 02, 2023 at 04:44 pm
Tanking is one concept that makes me ill, largely because of the nonsense it entails.
So you pay dozens of players millions of dollars to lose? All of that so you can possibly snare a 'can't miss' draft prospect that we all know often turns into a 'miss'. Or, the management weakens the team on purpose so they get high draft picks?
I'm certain some teams have done that, but most bad teams(like the Packers) are bad for other reasons.
R. Douglas: Bill Michaels pointed out Douglas was speaking his mind, honestly, about the state of affairs in Green Bay. Hmmmmm. Douglas has to be elated going to a contender in a tough division.
NFLfan
November 02, 2023 at 04:46 pm
I think Douglas angered LF or Gute with his honest assessment.
Starrbrite
November 02, 2023 at 09:14 pm
I’m with Dobber regarding Sweat.