Well said. My list is a little longer but we can start with yours

"If we finished 9-7, missed the playoffs but won our last two games and looked great, would we be feeling any better? "

Absolutely not. 9-7 may have been where they really "belonged". Maybe they did get lucky to actually go 13-3. But I'll take that even if it includes the whupping they just took. All those close game wins produced many moments of pressure. We saw lots of guys step up to respond to that pressure. That is a very positive development.

And even the whupping they took isn't such a bad thing, IMO. Leaving them with a sense of being so close but yet so far away is not necessarily a bad thing for 2021. It can be a tremendous motivator for the entire organization from personnel dept to coaching staff to players. I don't think a small tweak is enough for this team. They have some pretty major flaws---primarily pass catching and run defense. Both were on full display for the final game.

I wouldn't say Amos is overrated because his best asset was always making the right play or being where he needed to be and that's why he always graded out so well.....but if the Packers wanted to take a flyer on Kyle Dugger in the later rounds if he's there I wouldn't oppose to that. He's a small school guy playing division two but at 6'2 225 and running a 4.5 he could be the boom the secondary needs. It is kind of crazy the biggest tacklers in the secondary are the corners. Did you see what happened to Savage he clearly wanted no parts of Deebo.

I agree. Talent is what is needed. 49er Defensive line includes four 1st round picks. How do you accumulate that much talent is the problem that needs an answer? How does one team do it an others not?

So in other words, Gute was stupid to give Lowry a new deal?

He was brought in to be a pass rusher, not a run stopper. Pennell was in town for a try-out. They needed a big body, but they let him drive down to KC. and sign with them. He had a big role in the run stop against Henry last Sunday.
The verdict is still out on Gutekunst. He'll have to be at the top of his game to ready a team to give Santa Clara, payback.

A lot of good stuff here RC and good questions. One thing I stopped doing is questioning the use of one player over another. I will differ to the coaches on that every time. I don't see these guys in practice and don't see their mental and physical mistakes. Lancaster is playing before Keke, Adams and the rest of the jags because these guys are not showing enough day-in, day-out. Same probably applies to Josh Jackson, Oren Burkes and our TEs.

Again, my bottom-line is that the talent isn't there YET to compete against the better teams. That even applies to the guys within our own roster.

Our aim shouldn't be to become faster and stronger than the 49ers. First off, our aim should always be to be better than, which encompasses a lot more than fast and strong. And secondly, SF is not in our division. Our focus should be where it always belongs....winning the division. You have to get to the playoffs before they matter, and that means winning regular season games, especially against the Vikings, Lions, and Bears.

IF WR is a top need, then the following questions come to mind:

Does this mean we should throw more? Or we should be throwing to other positions less? And that Lazard and MSV and ESB and Kumerow need to have their snaps and targets reduced....or eliminated? And since on most plays, the #2 WR is a blocker or a decoy, why do we need a high draft pick for that when we already have other guys?

Regarding the defensive line....our top 3 are Clark, Lowry, and Lancaster. After that, we have question marks with Adams, Brown, and Keke. Even if one of these guys makes a leap by next year, we still need a hog to play ahead of or alongside of Lancaster.

I think we're going to have to play with two linebackers on the field more, and only 5 DBs. I'm not sure that Burks or Summers are parts of the answer.

Food for thought: That's an impressive string of losses in playoff games the Packers and Rodgers really has had some exceptional playoff performances during those losses. Those are facts. If the point is that Rodgers isn't responsible in any way for those losses, then I'll disagree. If the point is that they're his fault, then I'll have to disagree with that.

The secondary, especially the safeties, are supposed to be able to tackle, too, right? They missed a lot in this game.

Practice make s perfect.

Niners had trouble with mobile QBs. Also, I saw players in position to make a tackle being blocked and driven 5 yds down field, so it was speed but even more a lack of aggressiveness. As soon as the ball was snapped the front line was driven back 3 yds.

While I agree that they both could pay off big time next year. My question is why weren't they used more this year?

I don't want to just throw shade at Pettine specifically. But he was the DC. I would like to know why Gary and Keke weren't used more. Because it seems like when they were in there, they made plays.
And when we are asking about players getting little playing time, why weren't Jackson and Burks on the field more too?

Another one I was wondering about too is why was Raven Greene not active? I get that he may not have been ready, but then why did they add him to the 53? That part is just kind of odd to me.

"Martinez is good enough when the DL are keeping him clean"

Agreed, but someone is going to overpay him.

That last tweet is a shocking Damnation on TT MM and DC.

Perfect analogy for the season, but Pack needs to act now because the bell is tolling for Rogers. KC had trouble stopping the run all year, but they were able to stop the best back in the league, even with a hobbled Jones, with tough play by their safety and LBs. Mostert gained 142 before first contact! Frightening how we could not shed or avoid the blocks.

I wouldn't call in a "Lost Generation" but with the success Gute had this year and the VERY FEW holes the Packers had on the roster from 2011 through say 2016 makes you wonder what could have been. We saw first hand once again in 2019 what throwing UDFA at a Packers weakness at a position (Thompsons preferred method).

Now I'm not blaming Gute, not even a little. IMO Brian Gutekunst has done a remarkable job since he took over 2 short years ago. He HAS added speed to this roster but by the time Thompson left he left a shell of a football team...At least one that might go 13-3 and play in a NFCCG. WAAAY to many missed draft picks and lack of team building with any other avenue. Personally I think Mark Murphy deserves a LOT of the blame myself for allowing Thompson to continue when it was clear he wasn't well. Hell we picked that up in one press conference. Murphy walked the halls daily with him...WTF Murphy!?

Gute had a LOT to try and fix when he was named GM 2 January's ago. I for one am excited as hell about this Packers team and staff moving forward. Gute and MLF and the rest of the Packers FO now have a 2 game measuring stick and know EXACTLY who they need catch up to in the NFC. The Packers aren't that far off despite what the score read in SF. Get Rodgers some more weapons because ONE WR isn't enough. Get WR, ILB, O-Line and D-Line in Free Agency or the draft and go back and hit it again.

This team isn't going anywhere but up. ENOUGH of the dome and gloom... The future is bright in GB!

I think our #1 need is DL a big heavy run stopper followed closely by WR. If we have a great DL with the Smiths the MLB position becomes less important. Against SF and others who gashed is by running they could expose our lack of Speed at the MLB position. If we had greater push and disruption from the DL position that lack of speed wouldn’t have been exposed as much. So, if Martinez wants 10+ M then let him go and spend the money on DL and find MLB by draft or fringe FA.

I’m a big believer that great Lines make up for mediocrity at other positions. If your DL is weak the other team can scheme away from a very good MLB with blocking. SC won’t allow you to have above average players at every positions so you must decide what positions are most important to spend the capital and draft picks. Spend it on DL ala SF.

The defense was embarrassed on national TV, Pettine should be fired , you know their running but you can’t stop it. Draft a receiver early but find a run stopper in free agency who can be plugged in right away we can’t wait for someone to develop . Gary was under utilized, he made an impact on his limited snaps this season, I don’t know the reason for this but he is not a bust . Lowry and Lancaster are just guys nothing special , they are not play makers.

Reading tea leaves is always an uncertain proposition, but it appears as though the Packers are moving on from Martinez. Martinez was quoted as saying neither he nor his agent have had much contact with the Packer FO regarding a new contract. Since the Packers usually resign guys they want to keep fairly early in the process, it appears they are they are going to let Martinez test free agency and likely will lose him.

In his two years, Gute has not been one to let problems continue (see: OLB position, 2018) so I see changes coming for the Packers run defense. Since the Packers would have had to pay Martinez $8-10 million to keep him, I suspect they will use similar money or slightly more to go after Littleton or Schobert. I also suspect that we will see changes on the D-line as Lancaster and Lowery should be rotational players, not starters. I believe the D-line changes will be a combination of a free agent and/or a high draft choice.

Assuming they also resign Bulaga, I suspect that will eliminate any further free agent moves and that will leave draft choices to shore up the offensive playmaker issues. The draft is deep is WRs so that won't be a problem, but the draft is thin at TE so Gute may have rely on the development of Sternberger and hope that solves the TE issue.

I think the resources will be there to plug a number of the Packer's holes and I have great confidence that Gute will do so.

Go Pack Go!

I think we have our tight end of the future on the roster, Sternberger. No need to waste a high pick on TE .

I think Croat pretty much crushed Al's last tweet. I do understand what Al is trying to get at, but his Thompson McCarthy hate blinds him. Most of this is how close we came again, and fell short. Somebody must to be blamed. First Dom Capers, then Mike McCarthy and of course Ted (who never did what I as super fan wanted) Thompson. I get it. We all get it. In pro sports there can only be one, our team is so close, why not us. Look at Pettine hate. It would be amusing if it wasn't so stupid. A rebuilding team got a whole heck a lot further than anyone here thought, and all we hear is whining and moaning. (smiles and shakes head) Heck of season....

I posted a bit of this before, but I’m working on a theory of NFL “success”. It bugs me when the talking heads laud GM Lynch/coach Shanihan about how awesome they are without looking at last year’s 4 win total brought to you by the same guys. Same with McVay last year. Short attention spans abound in the “what have you done lately” NFL. It creeps into these pages when people comment that we cannot compete against the best teams in the league.

So my theory goes like this...there are poorly run franchises (Browns, Bucs, Raiders, Lions, Bengals, etc.). They rarely taste the playoffs for decades and we don’t have to worry about them. Then there are the well run franchises that rarely miss the playoffs (Seahawks, Steelers, Texans?, Vikings?, Packers, Pats). They recurrently end up with at least 9-11 wins per year over time. Then there are the boom-bust teams or yo-yo teams. SF is one of these.

SF has really good players. Fast, young, mostly drafted in the early first rounds. Here are their win totals over the last two cycles: since they made the playoffs in 2002 they had 7-2-4-7-5-8-6 wins. Then they made the playoffs in 2011-13. Then they won 8-5-2-6-4 before this year. That affords a ton of early first round draft picks while the stands sit empty on Sundays (and they did). When the inevitable success happens, the bandwaggoneers jump onboard and they can have 1-2 years of success before the salary cap catches up again and they can’t pay the second contracts. Closely related to the yo-yos are the teams with excellent QBs on rookie contracts. There is enough $ to buy good players until the QB gets paid. Russel Wilson getting his means no more Legion of Boom. KC will see this when Mahomes gets paid. Finally, there is the team that gets hot (Titans). I have no explanation for this lightning in a bottle phenomena.

The Packers (and the better run franchises) can compete with anyone EXCEPT the yo-yos in their up years when they are so loaded with talent and speed that they overwhelm. So the dilemma is, would we rather have the high degree of amplitude with SBs and playoff appearances followed by severe suckiness, or would we rather have a team that excels but rarely makes it over the hump? Tough question.

People are calling for a big, stout, run-stuffer. That's OK, but he's only likely to be a run-down player and teams will exploit that, too. I would argue that's not what they need. So long as this team is running a 3-4 -- and to those who say the 3-4 is the problem, look at defensive rankings and you'll find that 3-4 teams trend at least even if not a little better than 4-3 teams -- they need a true 5-tech who can play run AND pass. These are guys who are 6'5", about 300 lb., and can move...SF has guys in that mold: tall, powerful, long arms. Armstead. Bruckner. Lowry isn't that guy. He's tall and has the mass, but is slow-footed and short-armed. He's a try-hard guy, but will be at least serviceable playing opposite a better DE on the other side. Keke isn't that guy, either. He's a situational player in a 3-4, but could evolve into a disruptive MIke Daniels type.

Last game of the year and now an off-season of speculation. I'm not sure if more play-makers will make a difference, if your QB can't get the ball to them. We have seen the Pats win SB after SB w/o multiple all star wideouts or RBs. The difference is a QB like Brady. Rodgers isn't Brady, he's a great passer, just not a great decision maker. So having said that, IMHO the Packer's offensive plan was very flawed. The passing game should have been designed to go through Jones. Make those LBs to cover him and once that wouldn't work look for the one-on-ones to the TE, Adams, or Lazard.
These proposed passes to a RB are usually a 3-step drop backs. The Oline could handle that and frankly could open holes for quick opening run plays. This would also take more time off the clock and help the defense.
The defense was undermanned meaning they didn't have the manpower to stop their running play. I would rather see a dline guy face-planted at the LOS verses being pushed back several yards on a running play. I'm not sure playing more reserves would have helped or not, it was just obvious that the OLB's weren't holding the edge. They are big and strong enough to do that and maybe next year will be better. Better coaching and instructions should help. This year they couldn't do it.

So they finish 14-4, not bad at all, in fact great record. Congrats for a great year.
Players needed next year:
DE (may have to move up to get a good one)
ILB (need a difference maker, Martinez is pretty damn good if you replace him...better be really good)
OT( one with raw ability is OK if BB is resigned.)
TE (yes another TE over a WR)
WR(need a slot and boundary prospect/proven producer)
Can see Gutsey make a FA aquistion for one of these positions, and also see him move up the draft board for talent. Draft 30 won't get many difference makers but moving up isn't w/o risk.

Al, great time of the year to be in the Keys. I hope that you are enjoying your time there and I hope that you enjoy fishing because the fishing is great down there. Have a great time.

As for the Packers, your last comment/tweet about Rodgers playoff losses would make him the Packer's version of Dan Marino if not for the 2010 SB win. Both are two of the greatest QBs of all- time who never had a championship caliber supporting cast. In Rodgers case the defense usually has not been good enough to stop our opponent's offense.

Just for comparison. In 10 post season games, Lombardi defense gave up 104 points or 10.4 points per game. The results, Packers go 9-1 winning 5 NFL Championships in 7 years including 3 in a row (65-67) and the first 2 Super Bowls. In the 8 playoff losses mentioned by AL in his post the Packers defense allowed 291 points or an average of 36.4 points per game. With or without a great QB, regular or post-season, no team is going to win many games when the defense is allowing an average of 36+ points per game. That means the Packers would need to score at least 38 points a game against at least an actual NFL level playoff defense if not a championship level NFL defense.

It's way too early to accuse Gute of failing to provide Rodgers with an adequate supporting cast but there is absolutely no excuse for the TT regime not to get the job done or for Murphy not paying attention for 7 seasons following the 2010 SB win. Case closed. Thanks, Since '61

I was in Key West Just before the Atocha hit the headlines. Good Treasure hunters know how to find Gold. Striking it Rich says it all. So how can the Packers strike it Rich? Gute found some pieces that hinted for a big strike. The waters are rough for everyone. But navagating free agency is the key. Gute must hunt again. The pieces aren't as big as last year. But the stakes are. Dts= Got just the two bargains. Andrew Billngs and Jarron Reed. ILBs =Joe Schobert and Littleton. Why not Martinez? Disappointment. New blood makes any heart pump better. The Body of the packers needs speed. Wr speed. And the best way to get it is the draft. If Gute wants to strike it rich. Draft Offense. Pay Defense. Gute's golden ship will come in.

X

* In this the era of Derrick Henry, when even the Chiefs are running the ball in a big way, the key question for the Packers is not only whether Aaron Rodgers has the desire to implement small ball with the Packers, but whether he has the ability as far as temperament for patience and touch on his passes. While I'm all for keeping Rodgers if he is for the most part willing and able, I'm concerned that he may be a stubborn enigma who is resistant to change, and whose skills are deteriorating significantly, or largely unsuited for the Packers going forward.
* In this the era of Derrick Henry, etc..., as the Packers were gashed by the run in so many games, and embarrassingly so in the 49ers fiasco to end the season, is Mike Pettine the guy to be our defensive coordinator? Can he adjust our defense to the new physicality of the NFL that also features speedsters; and can he make adjustments within a game?
* Only after these two critical decisions have been made can we go ahead to decide how we can get ourselves some more players with physicality and speed. These are extremely difficult calls, but our future depends on honest assessments and bold resolutions by our general manager and head coach.
I don't know the answers, and it's difficult to know the inner workings of a team, but I'm very interested in what other fans think as far as observations and insights and impressions and opinions.

Shocking how many people are still apologists for Blake.

It is significant how many times NOBODY blocked Blake and Blake did nothing. NOBODY. They schemed out blocking that ignores the IN LB as a non factor.

Who was right?

Pettine's defense was underwhelming most of the year. they did play well in the red zone but struggled between the 20's. got to do a better job of getting off the field on third down.i think LaFleur should bring in his own guy as DC.

the whole question of talent seems to me to be an organization question. And the question is does the coaching staff and FO grasp the talent they have. Arguably McCarthy and Thompson whiffed on guys like Aaron Jones, Micah Hyde, Casey Heyward and some others. Hard to see that this regime is keeping that kind of talent on the bench though (obviously Jones' talent is now fully recognized). Who needs more snaps next year that did not get them this year? There is a pretty good consensus here on who needs fewer snaps.

One problem with Green Bay.

Rodgers, Rodgers Rodgers.
A man who can not back up his bravado.
A man who is as arrogant as they come.
A man who has no rapport with his team.
Not a risk taker.
Not a leader.
Not a winner.

And how can you screw things up with Olivia Munn??? Total loser!!!

I am all for sending him on his way back to California where he came from. Maybe he can find time to heal his relationship with his family.

Adios Sandy!!! (Our nick name for him after he was injured in 2008, the year he started. Based on South Park Episode 502).

Put in Boyle!!! Why not give someone else a chance to get us to another Super Bowl.

Bryon