After Further Review: Packers vs. Raiders
By Ross Uglem
Ross will provide a few observations every Monday afternoon following a Packers game based on a few viewings of the condensed version of the game on NFL GamePass. While this might not be the All-22 camera deep dive that might be more "educational", it should provide a conversation point for the rest of the week
As kind of a side note, this is obviously based off of a preseason game. All of these observations are definitely to be taken with a grain of salt. It is very difficult to keep track of when players are competing agianst starters, depth guys or roster fillers. For example, last Thursday night, Oakland had starters in for quite a bit of the game, while Green Bay rested quite a few of their important guys, including the entire offensive line.
Kyle Murphy was bad, but it was clear that he got hurt in this game.
This was his performance pre injury:
things started out well enough for Murphy, but it got off the rails quick, his footwork went completely out the window and he got the yips. The broadcast showed him working on technique on the sideline and technique thoughts during competition are almost always bad. pic.twitter.com/cR2qirljAh
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
And then it looked like this when he couldn't move his feet. Murphy may never be an all pro but this performance doesn't change my opinion of him whatsoever. He got hurt. He's in a walking boot. His feet were the problem.
When your kick step as a tackle turns into a shuffle bad things happen @VochLombardi pic.twitter.com/genBdXVbsc
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
Jaire and Josh are going to be good players. This is definiltey not Randall and Rollins 2.0. These were high end cornerback prospects, and Jackson is my favorite CB prospect in the entire class. Jackson has elite ball skills and is incredible with the football in his hands. Very difficult for offensive players and even special teamers to bring down. Alexander is just at another level athletically. If they can protect his height just a little bit it'll be a game changer.
This is why you can't be too concerned with the Cooper bomb, because the kid is super, super talented. pic.twitter.com/fYOn3jttPV
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
Greer Martini was really good. He might've just lost his roster spot with the Morrison trade, but even if that's the case he should be a practice squad priority.
I actually don't think the Morrison trade affects Ahmad Thomas. He's on the team. Thomas is a sub package linebacker and should back up Oren Burks' spot in Pettine's big plan for the defense. He does however have some things to clean up. There was a specific schematic thing where he was supposed to replace the EDGE defender that I think he screwed up twice.
Hundley was good again. He didn't get much help from his line (or frankly his tight ends), but he's proven again and again that he produces in the preseason. Whether that matters or not in the regular season is something I hope we don't have to find out.
Hundley played his ass off. Again. He's either the greatest preseason QB of all time or he went to work in the offseason and improved his craft. The only way we'll ever know is if Rodgers misses time again. What a mess. pic.twitter.com/WM0Sp2f4Ek
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
Jason Spriggs was pretty, pretty good. He wasn't great. He wasn't what you'd hope to have as a starting left tackle, but as it relates to what an actual backup tackle looks like in this league he was more than adequate. A step in the right direction perhaps.
somewhat lost in the murphy car crash was that Spriggs, though definitely not perfect was "quietly not terrible all of the time". pic.twitter.com/wcrMKQwxV7
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
OK but watch Spriggs handle the spin move.... pic.twitter.com/Nfu4B9pLkj
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
It's not going to work out in Green Bay for Quentin Rollins.
Raven Greene should probably make the team, but likely won't. Needs to be a priority practice squadder.
Montravius Adams was good. Vince Biegel was good.
This game was a huge step forward for J'Mon Moore. You might not feel like 4-62-0 is a huge stat line, but to secure every target and make a big play on a bomb that he got whacked on, those are the things that build confidnece. He is really talented. He has a starter's upside a la James Jones. J'Mon may never be a star but if he's your second WR outside in 2019 or 2020 you're probably doing just fine. Should pitch in as a WR4 or WR5 this season.
Here's the "bigger and better" from @jmon_moore. Might not seem like 4-62-0 is a big deal, but there was serious progress made. pic.twitter.com/nV0fPdrdO3
— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) August 25, 2018
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Ross Uglem is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @RossUglem
Comments (36)
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 02:37 pm
Great article Ross. I really wanted Rollins to step and and give us something from the 2015 draft class and he just hasn't. Rollins and Randall were both reached at 1 and 2 both were inexperienced and weren't elite athletes. Jackson slid and the draft and Jaire was taken around when he was projected.
I was watching Wilkerson this game and he stopped a few runs but so far in the preseason hasn't been behind the LOS. I really hope Pettine has a plan for him and just isn't showing his hand in the preseason.
Leatherhead
August 27, 2018 at 06:20 pm
Rollins and Randall are what happen when your focus is drafting speed and athleticism instead of tough, smart football players.
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 11:21 pm
Because who wants speed and athleticism in an athlete?
Lare
August 27, 2018 at 05:11 pm
I agree with pretty much everything, while players struggled while playing with backups around them against Oakland, during the season if forced into service due to injury they'll most likely have starters around them to help.
At this point, the most intriguing situation is the backup QB position(s). While Hundley has probably looked better, he should after being in the system for a few years. That said, there are other variables in play (talent, salary cap, pocket presence, etc.) as to who wins the battle in the end.
Mark Gaedtke
August 27, 2018 at 03:06 pm
Great article, even intelligent reader comments! Cheesehead TV is a breath of fresh air. I've got to remember this site. Thanks for your good insights.
Since'61
August 27, 2018 at 03:14 pm
Stick around. This is the best Packers blog there is. Thanks, Since ‘61
TKWorldWide
August 27, 2018 at 07:24 pm
And occasionally there are cookies!
Since'61
August 27, 2018 at 07:34 pm
Yes, Dobber loves cookies. Thanks, Since '61
Oppy
August 27, 2018 at 05:09 pm
Mark, bookmark the page and check it daily like most of us around here do.
These guys grind and provide Packers related content even in the deadest dead of the off season... And yes, we sometimes gripe about it. LOL :)
dobber
August 27, 2018 at 05:55 pm
You spelled "usually" as "sometimes"... ;)
Oppy
August 27, 2018 at 06:07 pm
Damn autocorrect.
...and truth be told, I pop in here 3-4 times a day, sometimes more. But that's because I'm a glutten for... something or other.
Tundraboy
August 28, 2018 at 01:46 am
Truth be told, I think we all do.
Since'61
August 27, 2018 at 03:13 pm
Ross - good point about Murphy being injured. He probably should not have been out there.
MM played it smart and safe by “resting” many of his starters on the road against a team that played many starters through the 1st half. Why risk them for no reward?
Even without Daniels and Burks I thought that our starting defense played well, especially when they stuffed the Raiders when they had 1st and goal from our 4 yard line.
As for our backup QB, I still prefer to chuck Hundley, keep Kizer and develop Boyle. Despite a decent preseason by Hundley “I won’t get fooled again”, as the song goes. Thanks, Since ‘61
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 05:07 pm
How do you know you aren't getting fooled by preseason Kizer or Boyle? We saw Kizer last year with the Browns win 0 games. I expect Hundley to make the 53 but would love to see him traded where we get anything for him and he has a better opportunity to compete. If we're just judging on 2018 preseason performance Hundley has had a great preseason yet again against the #1s not 2s & 3s like Kizer and Boyle. Maybe having Kizer compete with him has made Hundley take a step forward.
Since'61
August 27, 2018 at 05:43 pm
I don’t know that Kizer is a better option than Hundley. But I think Kizer has more upside and 3 seasons to go on his rookie deal. Hundley flopped badly when given his chance during the regular season in 2017.
I would be OK with keeping him and trying to get something for him via a trade but I don’t think that another GM will bite unless he’s desperate. Would you trade for Hundley based on what he has put on tape?
My best guess is that MM will want to keep Hundley because he allegedly knows the offense but the Packers should remember that they traded a former # 1 pick for Kizer so Gute is probably expecting some return on that trade.
In any case it doesn’t look like the game has slowed down for Hundley, even during the preseason. Some players make it look easy, Hundley makes every throw look difficult. IMO, it’s tine to cut bait on Hundley. Thanks, Since ‘61
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 09:05 pm
For Hundley it depends on what I was being asked to trade and how desparate my team was as you pointed out. I think he has flashed some potential. He can scramble, he can throw on the move, he has arm strength and accuracy. The drawback with Hundley is his mental game recognizing blitz pressure and his progressions.
You'd expect someone with his experience to be better I those areas but I'd throw GB a 7th round pick for someone they traded up in the 5th round to get. Not the 1st round pick Hundley was wanting to be traded for. Buffalo's QB has been a dumpster fire. Backups for the Raiders looked as bad as the Packers Friday.
I'd just work in to Hundley's contract "not allowed to chew gum and play QB at the same time". Clearly he has shown he can't multitask like Pete Carrol.
Since'61
August 27, 2018 at 07:38 pm
Jonathan - totally agree on the mental aspect of Hundley's game. That is why I think it is time to move on from him. Love your last paragraph. Overall an excellent reply to my post. Thanks, Since '61
Oppy
August 27, 2018 at 05:13 pm
I don't know if anyone saw (or cared about) my post detailing how I feel about the backup QB situation in the "what to do with Kizer" article (it kept getting positioned as a reply to someone instead of a stand-alone comment), but I really feel like Hundley is the only realistic option for the backup QB position in 2018, and the only roster spot we should use on a back up QB, for the reasons I listed there.
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 06:24 pm
Oppy I'm assuming you're referring to this post:
Oppy says:
August 26, 2018 at 03:31 pm
Long post, even for me. My apologies ahead of time, and thanks to those that brave reading it. :)
There are only two types of Back Up QB the Packers should use a roster spot on:
Type A: A quarterback who's primary role is to step in and manage games over a short term period if Aaron Rodgers gets dinged up, a guy who can finish out a game and hold a lead, hold down the fort for a few weeks, try to win some games.
Type B: A quarterback who has the potential to be a full time starting QB for the franchise when Rodgers is ready to retire, or, should the unthinkable happen.
The Packers should ONLY use a second roster spot on the back up QB position if they feel they have a young player who could develop into the eventual full time replacement for Rodgers.
I would advise for the remainder of Rodgers' tenure going forward starting in 2019, the Packers seek to retain a proven, veteran journeyman QB to be the primary back up each year (Type A), and continue looking for the young QBs with the talent and aptitude to develop into Rodgers' eventual successor. If you don't think you've found it, try to get the guys who might develop into Type A on the PS, and only use one Roster spot for the vet back up QB. When the Packers DO find the young talent that may eventually be the next franchise QB.. Use a second roster spot to retain him.
Hundley is the only QB on the roster right now that is realistically ready to even attempt to win games for the Packers over the short term- Type A. Kizer and possibly Boyle could become Type A in the future, but neither are today, and none of our QB's look like the eventual long term replacement for Aaron Rodgers as a franchise QB- Type B.
This is why for 2018, I would only use one roster spot for Brett Hundley, and attempt to get Kizer and Boyle on practice squad. I would not lose sleep if either didn't make it past the waiver wire (I wouldn't expect Kizer to.)
Hundley goes after 2018. In 2019. If Kizer or Boyle looks like a realistic Type "A" back up, great. If not, find that journeyman to sign, and keep looking for the franchise QB of the future.
Lare
August 27, 2018 at 06:33 pm
Way too long for me, could someone summarize it in 50 words or less?
JonathanSpader
August 27, 2018 at 06:58 pm
We're screwed without Rodgers.
Keep a veteran QB backup that can win a game or 2 while Rodgers recovers.
Keep Hundley & Stash Kizer/Boyle on the P.S.
Draft a QB with the potential to replace Rodgers in the future.
Bedrock
August 27, 2018 at 08:17 pm
Can’t stash Kizer. Too many accrued starts.
Oppy
August 28, 2018 at 01:08 am
I don't believe that's true anymore- I could be wrong- but there was recently some rules changes to allow "four players with up to (2) accrued seasons" to be placed on Practice Squad as of 2016.
I would advise looking further into it if you are interested, but this seems to suggest that Kizer would indeed be eligible per the new rules. Again, I'm not 100% on how that rule wording actually is applied.
It should also be noted that I don't think Kizer would clear waivers if exposed, and I'm okay with that.
Oppy
August 28, 2018 at 01:13 am
Important notes to the condensed version:
*Two types of back up QB: Guy to hold down the fort short term, or a guy to eventually be the face of the franchise
*Packers should NEVER use two roster spots on back up QBs unless one of them is potentially the next franchise QB
*I don't think Hundley is an NFL starter caliber player, but he's definitely better than Kizer NOW, warts and all, and we're stuck with him
LayingTheLawe
August 27, 2018 at 11:00 pm
It is certainly hard to trust Hundley. He wasn't just bad last season he was horrifically bad. I think he has an NFL record for the lowest passing yards total ever in a winning game over the last 25 years when he had 84 yards passing in a win. He had his moments in games against Cleveland and Pittsburgh, but when he was bad he was anemic to a high level. But McCathy's comments seem to indicate they are leaning towards keeping him.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2018 at 03:53 am
I agree Since...
Also it is not less important to say that Kizer is only 22 and Hundley is already 25 years old.
Kizer was pushed to play as rookie with Browns team. THat is why he had so many interceptions. Also, many of those interceptions (at least 50%) experts said is not on Kizer account. That was bad play by his WR/TE/RB...
I say cut Brett HUndley if you can not get 7th rounder conditional pick!
PatrickGB
August 27, 2018 at 03:16 pm
Whew, and I thought that it was reported that the team sucked. Thanks for the real stuff. I wondered about MMs presser and how it seemed to fly in the face of the naysayers. Now I know. Perhaps the sky is NOT falling after all.
stockholder
August 27, 2018 at 03:35 pm
Extra points.- Were very good. But lets run the numbers. 53 players, = 3 PK,LS,P. 24 Offensive, 26 defensive= 5 DL,10LBs, 6Cbs, 5 S. - I see Rollins still making up the 6 Cbs. Hawkins gets cut and Rollins is #6 on the packers Depth chart. They would be stupid to go less. Especially when the talent for special teams is needed. Hundley will affect the Wrs. I can't see losing talent for Hundley.
Ross Uglem
August 27, 2018 at 05:06 pm
I would be surprised if the CBs aren't this:
King
Tramon
Jaire
Josh
Davon H
Goodson -- emergencies only and special teams ace
Rosco
August 27, 2018 at 05:31 pm
This IS the best Packers blog hands down. You guys don't just follow the crowd.
Lare
August 27, 2018 at 06:41 pm
I agree. We'll occasionally get the insecure Vikings fan here that downvotes every post positive to the Packers, but for the most part posts are pretty intelligent and considerate of others opinions.
Also Kudos to the writers and those like TGR that do the stats and salary cap analysis to keep us all informed and up-to-date.
Tundraboy
August 28, 2018 at 01:53 am
Yes, it's the total package here.
croatpackfan
August 28, 2018 at 03:54 am
And this blog becomes even better with return of our lost son, Aaron Nagler!
4thand10
August 28, 2018 at 12:25 pm
You probably don’t need to be told this but....nice work and a nice write up.
RobinsonDavis
August 28, 2018 at 09:47 pm
As usual Ross, nice job! Remember when the "experts" were commenting about Jaire's short arms? Look at the high point extension. And what was also cool, he recognized the trajectory early and actually slowed down.
RobinsonDavis
August 28, 2018 at 09:44 pm
Regarding Murphy: It was my understanding that the last play you posted was the one he got injured on. Is that not true? Murphy just has not played as well as he did last year IMO, even prior to this game. That is why I am questioning if he was injured earlier in camp and that he exacerbated an injury. Thoughts?
I agree with all the rest of your comments too, especially on line depth, generally, in the NFL. Just look at the draft capital the Raiders have thrown at shoring up their tackle positions over the last few years.....and they are still struggling. IMO, we need to improve and find a true swing tackle soon.